neil: haven't they had their comeback? >> china had a big run up and fell apart. now it is going up. neil: i want to thank all of our panelists and we have david asman coming up next. he is on the network that is the stamp of business news. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] >> this energy crisis and this climate crisis. healthcare crisis. even before this crisis hit the worst financial crisis -- full-blown crisis. >> to an historic crisis. >> worst crisis. david: financial crisis, healthcare crisis. the president keeps using that word to sell big government solutions to these crises. but i'm david asman and welcome

to "forbes on fox." let's go in focus. steve, only one real crisis? >> it certainly feeds the big crisis. people feel the federal reserve will print the money by buying long-term securities which leads to inflation and weak economy and who would imagine george bush looking like skruj. -- scrooge. david: so, only one crisis and spending too much money? >> one crisis is a priority crisis. i can tell you one thing we need to spend more on. you have people falling off the unemployment rolls because unemployment benefits are forno available long enough because we are not creating jobs. they should expand unemployment. there is spending we need.

we need to prioritize the needs of real people. david: jack, he is talking about minister spending. >> now we have a welfare crisis. mike, i have to disagree. i think spending is a big problem. you don't have just huge budget deficits at the moment as well as public debt of u.s. debt. you have estimates growing every three months trillions being added to the estimates 10 years out. $up to 17.5 trillion for public debt. these are problems that hit where it hurts the most and it has to be brought back under control. overhauling medicare, looking at global warming, that is not something we can do right now. david: as big time a spender as bush was, this spending is making bush look like a piker. >> that is not correct. we need to spend a moment thinking how we got the big

deficit, and only 7% to 10% is obama. the rest is bush is crazy war in iraq, misfwoidguided financial m and things like the medicare drug spending bill. obama inherited this. he is doing his best. if you like the review, on friday barney frank said he will back ron paul's investigation. federal reserve and how they spend. it is not what obama is doing. david: i'm thinking of the trillion dollar programs. the stimulus was close to a trillion. medical close to a trolling. global warming. this is on a scale that we have not seen before. >> and it does surpass bush's spending. and unfortunately bush did spend a lot of money and i like what steve has said. the government has been spending like drunken sailors and when have you said that but the issue is -- sailors spend their own

money. >> that was my punch line. but you are right. we have fallen through the looking glass. what i like is how the president is saying he's spending to create or save 3.5 million jobs. i think we hired 25,000 government workers recently just to track the statistic. so, the debt to g.d.p. is 360% with social security and medicare unfunded liabilities. we are in a serious danger zone. david: in the bush era domestic spending went up about 40%. we have about doubled that in six months. >> i don't really think that true. when you say a scale we have never seen before when you look at world war ii we were spending a lot more -- david: we were in a world war. >> at the same time the growing deficit is a major problem but it shouldn't be the number one priority today. i think we should be looking at

how fragile the economy is and i don't think that is the inflation issue and growing deficit should be the number one focus because if you look at the solutions or possible solutions to that, tax increases or pulling back stimulus spending. >> all spending do is take a pail of water from one end of the pool to the other end and lose some on the way. it doesn't stimulate the economy. didn't do it it the 1930's, 1970's, not doing it now. if you want to have incentives like reagan and kennedy, fine, a little government restraint, fi fine. >> the interest cost alone we said time and again equates to about a dozen federal agencies and we look at the c. bchb.o. -e white house projection of spending they are using optimistic assumptions that treasury yields will stay low at 3% ignoring other governments issuing bonds you have a glut so

interest costs will go up. some estimates are $2 trillion. more than the size of the g.d.p. of australia, and brazil and india. >> i do think that there is a place for government spending and you do, too. you like a strong defense. that is government spending. the biggest recipients of government spending are defense contractors. there is no doubt the deficit, 90% of it, is due to the financial crisis. the financial crisis is still barely breathing. the only way business can get any action at all is government spending. they are forth getting bank loans. they could be years recovering. host: jack? >> there are good deficits and bad deficits. there isn't a universal rule. look what reagan did, he ran a deficit, won the cold war, cut spending -- >> he didn't have a broken

financial system. >> it led to a 25-year bull market run. so that is a way where a deficit served the purpose of stem late ing -- david: mike. >> i agree with jack that there are good and bad deficits. a good one is where you borrow money that pays dividendses later on. ever since i was cognizant of the news we have had healthcare problems and pollution problems unsolved. now people say we can't address them we don't have the money. that is what they always say. that that is why the problems persist. >> all the numbers don't take into account the cost of bailout which is $11.3 trillion. you saw a goldman sachs executive saying it takes a pillage to fix the system. would any president have been elected if they played it straight with the american people they were going to spend $3.6 trillion on a budget we

don't know will be effective. $ $787 billion -- david: hold on. will any president from either party have the guts to stop this kind of spending? steve? >> the public would support them and you need positive systemic reforms for healthcare and social security. you don't have to throw grandma in the snow to do it. >> if you look at the priorities of this president he said as recently as last week at the u.n. we have to prioritize, as tempting as it is to put the economic recovery first that global warming is the recovery and that has to take precedence. that is the missed prioritization that is getting us into trouble. david: still ahead, sarah palin's advice to president obama on getting americans working again. first, the democrats under fire for a plan cutting $100 billion from medicare but some say we need to cut more. @@

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>> from america's news headquarters i'm jamie colby. a day after leader at the g-20 condemned iran's newly acknowledged secret nuclear facility its nuclear chief says its country will allow the nuclear agency to inspect. the sites believed to be built deep into a mountain with enough equipment to produce nuclear fuel. the timing of the inspection is unclear. the u.s. embassy in pakistan is condemning deadly violence. two homicide car bombs killing at least 14 and wounding at least 100 others in separate attacks. the first blast near a bank in the northwestern city o of pecu. we will have more headlines for you in about 30 minutes. back to "forbes on fox" only on

fox. david: the shocker of the week the independent congressional budget office saying the democrats' bill will cut medicare benefits. democratic leaders deny it. liz says they should be flaunting it. they should be cutting more. >> they should be cutting more. even the g.a.o. has said medicare warrants a special status as a high risk program because of the waste that is going on in the system. we know that. everybody knows that. that is a common theme. but the extension of medicare to cover all sorts of drug costs was a real problem the bush administration should never have done and own the obama administration is sending out medicare strike fors to placeslike miami where it is known that you can defraud the medicare program with these for selling wheelchairs and charging taxpayers for people that have sprains. so, it is out of control and the

administration is getting it right. david: steve, medicaid and medicare going broke and bringing states down. they have to be cut, no? >> if they knew how to cut fraud and abuse and the idea that government can is preposterous since there is so much fraud in medicaid and medicare but they want to cut medicare advantage which people like because it gives tell more choice and flexibility. that is where they will cut, not the old program but the one people like. host: so they need cuts but cutting the wrong? >> steve is being way too gentle. i say get rid of the whole thing. host: the whole thing? you won't get elected president with that. >> through tax credits and eliminating taxes on social security allow seniors to buy their own healthcare. david: quentin, do we need more or less cuts? >> i think we need more along these lines. this is a $100 billion cut over

10 years by allowing competitive bidding. to call in a cut without looking at the advantage is incoherent. there was a poll this week. a majority of people believe that the republicans are not addressing healthcare seriously, just trying to make political gains. they think the democrats need to work with the republicans. in this environment it is hard to see clearly. people need to look at the facts. david: neil, tell me a politician that is not doing that. but do we need to cut medicare more? >> we need to cut it more. i say a pox on the elderly who say that is growing old is a key to the socialist paradisparadis. this gives them healthcare memberships and dental programs. we have 50 million with no coverage. the republicans are trying to throw sand -- >> hold on, 50 million with no coverage that includes 10 million that are illegal immigrants. >> that is true but we have people that are without coverage

and this $100 billion reduction in the growth -- david: mike, do we cut medicare to protect everyone in >> don't listen to nooechl, grant ma. i love you. you earned these benefits and i believe that and the democrats believe that. these are not cuts, they are savings. we should save money and do that if it can be felt in any of the services offered. even if we have to spend more. we should not cut services. if we can deliver them more efficiently i'm for it. david: you have looked at these numbers. is medicare advantage the place to begin cuts? is that where you begin? >> i have looked at the program and i do love grandmas. so it is $123 billion and there is a lot of waste here. they are selling arthritic kits that are basically orthotic braces for $3,000 and $4,000

through the medicare advantage program and you pointed out, david, extra wheelchairs and things. this is the place to look. david: every government system has abuse and waste. even medicare advantage, even though there are good things surely will waste in there. >> there is, but not nearly as much as the rest of the program. the medicare advantage has the advantage of bringing in the private sector and using that. that is why we need genuine competition starting with allowing people to buy policies across state lines and get health savings accounts for medicare where the beneficiaries control the money. david: neil, that is the bottom line. if we solve anything in healthcare it is getting the patient and doctor closer together. >> i agree and i think you should get the employer out of the equation. david: the employer, medicaid, medicare and insurer. >> yes. and whenever you hear a poll station talk about waste, abuse i'm trying to sell you a program that doesn't add up.

>> one reason the savings will never happen is the government doesn't spend any money on enforcing the law. that is why it touts how the administrative costs are so low because it doesn't spend money policing itself. >> and medicaid and medicare cover half of the country's healthcare costs. that is why there is abuse. they don't have the people to track it. david: debate over healthcare getting ugly this week and that could bring in an upswing for the economy. first, right here a new warning from sarah palin that just might save american jobs.

david: sarah palin's plan to bring back jobs to america.

david: sarah palin sending a message to president obama. you want to get americans back to work? then cut taxes on all americans. steve forbes, he couldn't agree more. right, steve? >> right. and to those folks who don't like her, look at the message, not the messenger. this john kennedy, ronald reagan, when you increase incentives the economy comes back. more government doesn't work, let more power to the people always works. david: subsequequentin, it work kennedy. it should work for obama. >> i'm sorry, steve but character matter enormously. she goes from being governor of the biggest welfare state, doesn't like that job and becomes the most famous quitter to go on facebook and spread

lies about death panels. she has no character. she is just going in for the popular proce popular bromide. david: jack, without the ad hominems. the specifics of her advice is it good or -- >> character matters. >> if you look at what she is talking about like steve said it is a message of tax cuts. and remember what taxes do. they are a tariff on things lick job creation, savings, a lot of things that get our economy moving and try to pull us out of the recession. what she is prescribing is a message of pro growth economic policy going forward and she reminds me a lot of another public leader, winston churchill who said -- >> he didn't quit. he never quit. >> trying to lift yourself by the handle. david: evelyn, is it good or bad advice? >> bad advice. tax cuts will be pretty detrimental to the economy

because we can't really afford it. we just got out of a debate talking about how the growing deficit had hamper the recovery and now we are talking about more tax cuts which could hinder growth and the ability of our country to pay back the deficits. host: but tax cuts don't hinder growth they increase growth. >> i will use my favorite president as an example. bill clinton. david: wait a minute. that like quentin saying sarah palin is his favorite candidate. >> but during his first four years unemployment was averaging 5.5%. in 1997 he cut the capital gains from 28% to 20% and unemployment 4.5% and tax revenues from the cut surged into the economy. david: people still cue that voodoo economics. >> some are slow learners. that why we need to improve the education system but i would like ever lip to tell me --

evelyn to tell me one time when reducing the tax rates didn't lead to more vibrant economy. >> the bush years. >> name one bad one. >> we got the stimulus from president bush that was a small tax for some. >> no, it was a rebate. david: hold o i think quentin has an example. where is one time we lowered tax rates and we haven't had a boost in the economy? >> even a boost -- george bush cut taxes and we got no improvements in standard for the a average american and a monster bubble that you said was a recovery and it wasn't. david: steve, does that work? >> no, that shows us george bush should have studied ronald reagan. he only did half. david: millionaire celebrities complaining about millionaire c.e.o.'s making big bucks.

first, live like a celebrity and a c.e.o. with our gang's stock picks that are ready to rally.

david: stocks ready to pop. >> i have wellpoint. they will benefit from increasing roles from healthcare. they have a good records management program add they are cheap. >> i would wait for the debate to play out. david: you like disk drives? >> they recently upped the outlook. david: mike, she got a stock back in march that has popped 130%. >> in this case i think she is wrong. i like western digital. i think they have the technical advantage. host: you like a chemical product. >> i love huntsman. goldman sachs has been buying it. david: jack had a tock thas to po