s today. please check us out a bill o'reilly.com. and we'll see you all on "the factor" post-game show. remember, the spin stops right here because we are definitely looking out for you. captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- sean: tonight, gang violence in chicago leaves a teenager dead and the shocking events are caught on tape. should the president be pushing to bring the olympics to this city? >> if they lie again, i'm going to go over there and kick them in the crotch. >> james traficant makes his dramatic return. >> don't call me name. >> "the new york times" admits that it missed the boat on the acorn scandal. all of that, plus dana per arena no, victoria biscotti here with a brand-new book. >> please are upset. >> "hannity" starts right now.

[captioning made possible by fox news channel] sean: and the city of chicago is still reeling from the murder of a 16-year-old honor student during an after-school fight between two rival gangs. derrien albert died after being repeatedly kicked in the head and struck with a board. his mother told the fox affiliate in chicago that he got caught in the middle of a brawl because he was trying to help a friends. tragically the vicious murder of der onalbert was all caught on tape. we want to warn you that what you're about to see is extremely graphic and can be very difficult to watch. >> damn! >> oh, my god. >> what the [bleep]. >> oh, my god. get closer. >> [bleep].

>> [bleep]. >> damn. sean: this is absolutely chilling. well, now the story has turned political. this thursday president obama will travel to denmark to support chicago's bid to host the 2016 summer olympics. but in light of this tragedy and all of the pressing issues facing the country, is the president making the right move? joining me now is the host of "give and take," which airs on wnbc's new york nonstop. julie mennon is with us and the former white house press secretary, dana perino. that video is some of the most difficult video to watch. >> i can't watch it. and i think about the mom who, not only did she lose her son, but now has that video for everybody to watch and it becomes part of a political issue. my these go to her and everybody. sean: this kid, from all

indications, a good student, an honor student. what are we to make -- what has happened that we see -- these instances come up periodsly. we've seen brawls at football games. you can go back to rodney king and some of the riots that have taken place. what has happened to these kids that they can take a board and beat some kid to death, kick him in the head, and act like that? what happened? >> well, that's exactly right. this is a terrible scourge on society, gang violence. but it's not a political issue. i don't think there's any political about it. this is a terrible tragedy and it has nothing to do with politics. sean: well, it's become political in this sense -- the president is going to convince the olympic committee to bring the olympics to chicago. >> the sad thing is that this type of school violence, unfortunately, happens all over america. and not always resulting in murder. but as i read today that this is not the first child that's been murdered this school year in chicago. >> but chicago -- and i went to law school there. i do have to say something for chicago. first of all, the crime rate is down. the lowest it's been in 40

years. it's been going down each of the last four years. there were 443 murders this year alone out of three million people. that's half of what it was in the 1990's, so it's definitely going down. sean: there's another issue and it's about priorities for the president. we've got a general in afghanistan saying we need troops. he can't make a decision about sending more troops or else we're risking failure. there's unemployment at 9.7%. we've got a president that seems so busy going on david letterman, all the sunday shows, giving speeches and, you know, are there not more pressing issues than getting the troops, the reinforcements they need, the equipment they need, getting the economy back on track? >> but the situation in afghanistan is not going to be solved in one day. this is a 15-hour trim. he is leaving thursday night. he's coming back friday afternoon. sean: but the general asked for these troops back in august. >> right. sean: dana? >> there's a matter of perception and there will be a perception problem. he probably felt like he had to do this. the one thing that's interesting is in the united states we've always let the private sector push for our

olympic bids and also for our athletes. and, you know, other countries haven't done that. it looks like america is going to -- >> that's not true. in new york mayor bloomberg took an active role. vladimir putin of russia, went fo guatemala. >> he did events with mayor daley but did not make this type of display. look, it's a 15-hour trip. if they get the olympics, it will be fine. sean: it's very interesting to me how this president operates. i mean, he can take six or seven months to decide on what dog that he's going to get for his family, seriously. but yet, he wants health care pushed in two weeks time, which was initially their time frame, which was obscene. you know, general mcchrystal says we need troops or else we risk failure. that was back in late august and they still are not getting the reinforcements. then we found out on "60 minutes" this weekend he's only spoken to the general once or twice. so the question is is the president misprioritizing? >> i think that, unfortunately,

this debate about afghanistan is being played out now in the public and because of that now we are all very well aware that he's only talked to the general once, that the troops -- that request is out there. and what happens when you are a man or woman in uniform for the united states and your commander in chief is trying to figure out what the policy is going to be, when the policy that he put in place was to get out of there -- sean: but we risk failure. that would have caught my attention if i was president and that would have caught my immediate attention and i would have talked to the general. >> first of all, i happen to agree with you but for different reasons. i think we should be out of afghanistan and i'm upset that the president hasn't made a decision. so i think that by not making a decision, he should make a decision. so we happen to agree on that. >> but condi rice says if we pull out of afghanistan, we risk another 9/11. >> and also, just from a woman's point of view, where are all the women's groups? where are their voices? why can't they come out and say we are not going to let this happen again to the women of afghanistan, to the girls who go to school? that's unconsciousable.

>> first of all, that doesn't have anything to do with the troops. >> sure, it does. >> do you think we knead to get into again another effort in terms of nation-building? >> we need a strategy to win and the president hand-picked a general, and the general now is saying i need troops in order to accomplish my mission, and you can't talk to me but once in three months? >> the fact that he hasn't talked to him once in three months is indicative of the fact that he's not going to send more troops. >> ok, then let's put that out there then and let's not drag it out. if that's the case, then it is unconsciousable if that is the decision to let men and women in uniform stay there and risk their lives for a policy that they are now repudiating. sean: but this is the point -- he can make a decision to advocate on behalf of the olympics, but he can't make a decision about whether or not he's going to support -- give the general the troops that he's asking for. >> as i said for opposite reasons, where's your olympic spirit? i think it's great for the country. sean: i have olympic spirit, but i'm also concerned about people that aren't working.

i'm also concerned about troops, as dana points out, that their general has asked for reinforcements ands's not even talking to them. pick up the telephone. say, general, what do you need? >> a 15-hour trip that is going to bring patriotic spirit that is definitely needed is not going to make a difference. sean: call up the general and say, "what do you need?" is that too much to ask? >> that has nothing to do with the copenhagen trip. >> sean: if you've got time to fly to copenhagen you have time to talk to the general who's about to lose the war. you have time. >> i agree. some people think there's no problem with it, but if you're in the military or you don't have a job or if you want this health care bill passed and you need the president's help, they could have used that time. there is a fundamental difference of sending the president -- i sort of thing that they think they're going to get it. because if he goes and they don't get it -- >> i completely agree with you. they're not going to sends him if they're not going to get it. >> so then why go? >> well, right now chicago is

the second city. he's got to bring the gold back to the united states. >> oh, my god. sean: so he wants a photo op. >> it's not a photo op. >> sure, it is. >> it's good for america. sean: it's a photo op. >> the fact that the country is so divided, something like the olympics is nonpartisan. >> you got him all fired up. sean: thank you for being with us. it is text vote tuesday time. do you think chicago should be hosting the 2016 olympics? h 1 for yes, h 2 for no, h 3 if you don't care. text us at your votes at 36288. we will give you the answers coming up at the end of the show. coming up, one of our favorite all-time guests is out of jail after seven years. former ohio congressman james traficant is out of the slammer. he'll tell us how he fared in jail. and plus, he has some special shout-outs. to who? you'll find out next.

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sean: earlier this month the always unpredictable james traficant was released from a minnesota prison. he served a seven-year prison sentence for bribery and racketeering. but he is back out, and tonight he makes his return to the show. and joining us now is former congressman james traficant. congressman, seven years in prison. that's not a fun experience. welcome back to the program. >> well, thank you. thanks for having me back from. what i understand after seven years, your program has gotten much stronger, so i feel honored to be here tonight. sean: well, all right. thank you. >> honored to be anywhere. i'm glad -- hey, sean, i'm glad to be anywhere. sean: well, i believe that. you said this to me in an interview -- that you thought you would die in prison. well, you don't look much different than you did seven years ago.

>> well, thank you. what did you expect, me to be wearing prison stripes or something? no, what i said and what i meant was i believe from the length of the sentence that i received, i think they were hoping that it was a death sentence, that i wouldn't come back and be looking a camera in the eye just like this on a very popular show like yours. so i didn't mean that they -- that i felt i was going to be killed, although i was in some situation that is were tentative at times. sean: well, i can believe that and i'm sure nobody wants to go to prison. why don't you, for people that don't know -- i mean, here you're one of the most controversial congressmen, powerful congressmen in washington, d.c., known for fiery -- >> don't call me names, don't call me names. sean: all right. known for fiery speeches on the house floor. and then your life changes. then you're sent off to jail for seven years. what was your day like, your average day like, in prison, and what was it like psychologically for you? >> sean, i really don't want to

go back and revisit those experiences. sean: well, that's important, though. >> just let me tell you this -- i forfeited the future life to make sure that i survived. i'm mad as hell. there's no doubt about it. and i'm looking to get back at the justice department and the internal revenue service, and i predict before it's over that i will. i want to get them right by the short hairs. that's how mad i am. sean: so you are going to try and prove your innocence, say you were wrongly convicted. >> i don't need to prove i'm innocent. i don't need to prove i'm innocent. i believe there's enough happening now with this fellow in nigeria who submitted an affidavit to the nigerian government and said my life was ruined, because i wouldn't perjure myself against trafficking for the justice department. all of these revelations are coming forward. you stay tuned. you're going to see them and you're going to be surprised before it's over. sean: i'm going to stay tuned. we're going to watch it. but let me go back to this

other question and then we'll move forward. what was your life like on a daily basis when you go from being a powerful congressman to ending up in a daily routine in jail? what was that like for you? >> i was just like any other inmate, any other convict, and i did what i had to do to survive. and while you brought that up, i want to say hello to dre' maddox, freddy mcknight and a bunch of guys up there in rochester. and i believe our country is so screwed up, nelson mandela said, sean, if you really want to see the true character of a nation, you've got to go through their prisons, and, boy, i have. sean: are you going to run for office again? >> i'm not sure yet. i'm looking at it. one way i can get back at the justice department, the i.r.s., is to be a sitting member of congress, and i may. i have to look at it. i have no money. i don't expect to raise any money. i never did raise money. i was never supported by any political party nor the newspapers, so i'd have to run against everybody. sean: and it wouldn't surprise

me -- >> and i just may do that. sean: there's probably a few nervous congressmen in your district right now, or in and around your area in youngstown. congressman, you said something in an interview with our own greta van susteren. you and i got into this on my radio shock, and i am shocked, frankly disappointed. and these remarks sound like the conspiratorial, anti-somersetic remarks of people that we have heard from over the years and what you said was, quote, talking about israel and, quote, jewish people, they're controlling much of our foreign policy, they're influencing much of our domestic policy. what do you mean by that? because that sounds to me like a bizarre conspiracy theory. why would you say something like that when it's, first of all, patently untrue? >> number one, i served in congress for 17 years.

i've seen members question bills and votes on how does israel feel about this? i must have heard that every time there was a significant vote. here's what i'm saying -- i'm not an enemy of israel. america supports israel, and we should. they're a free nation, they're our friends amidst the cluster of dictators and monarchs. certainly i support israel. but israel, through its lobby, has manifested so much power over the united states congress, that we're embroiled in wars that i don't believe we should be. our kids are coming back in body bags. and in the long run this israeli lobby is going to hurt israel. as soon as you mention israel, someone claims you're an anti-smite. the truth of the matter is i'm pro-american. sean: i'm pro-american, too. >> hear me. i don't like what's happening in america today. our kids are coming back in body bags and we're bankrupt, complete's broke. sean: you're suggesting that we're fighting wars on behalf of israel, but you just mentioned the 9/11 attacks. wait a minute. hear me now, congressman.

we're not fighting the war. we didn't fight the war in iraq. we're not fighting in afghanistan for israel. we're fighting because this country was attacked because the 9/11 commission report said there's a group of enemies against us that are fighting a war against us and we're not at war with them. so we're fighting them because they killed 3,000-plus americans. that's why we're fighting. it has nothing to do with israel. >> all right. let me respond to that. we're in a situation where the commission come out and they discussed the attack on america. there's no doubt about it. but our policies in the middle east have been so one-sided and subjective, we've created so many enemies. the only way we can strike back is we've imported the terrorists from those actions. so if you're questioning it you're saying you're anti-semite. sean: you said they're controlling our foreign policy and our domestic policy. >> i believe they are. i believe they control the senate and the house foreign

affairs committee. sean: that's insane. >> and they're controlling our foreign policy. sean: congressman, that's conspiratorial nut-job stuff. >> it has nothing to do with conspiracy. sean: are we supposed to be friends with syria, are we supposed to be friends with saddam hussein, hezbollah, hamas? >> hold it, sean. sean, i know you need ratings. i know you need ratings, but just hold it. sean: i have ratings. >> i'm not saying we should be friends over there with anybody. i'm saying we should be objective. we have developed serious enemies from a one-sided policy. and, yes, i believe israel, through their lobby, has manifested total power of the congress of the united states. sean: total power. total power. >> and my concern is the taxpayers and the citizens of the united states should control their government, not a foreign entity. sean: to suggest, as you're doing here tonight, that they control our congress, that, quote, they are influencing and the sole control and influencing of our domestic policy is an absurdity. it sounds like you are a kook.

>> sean, you'll not suggesting it, i'm telling it. yes. i believe they manifest a great power over america. let me also say in the last four years there were two separate incidents of apex spying on america. we even conducted a search warrant on aipac headquarters. now, i don't like what's going on here. all i'm telling you is i'm concerned about america. you and i might disagree. i'm not an anti-semite, i'm not against israel. and if israel is attacked, i'm the first one to want to support them. but what i'm saying to you that this power that is being manifest on our congress is going to backfire and it's going to ends up in the long run hurting israel, because the american people are getting about fed up with this government. sean: one last shot at this -- will you back down from, quote, they are controlling much -- meaning the israelis. they are controlling much of our foreign policy? will you back off that statement? no, i don't. sean: all right.

then we disagree. congressman, thanks for being with us. >> good to be on your show. sean: and coming up, french president nicolas sarzoky is not only angry at barack obama, he's also giving him a major lesson in foreign policy. did you ever think you'd see this day? that story and much more coming up straight ahead. ugcl) yeacl 's h fba icos y!tyft juneck yno itft'sse sut'cu tyftef (ckicli diarrhea, constipation, gas, bloating. that's me!

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>> tonight in hannity's america, did you ever think we'd be getting lessons on power politics from the french? well, that sad moment has in fact arrived for president obama. french president nicolas sarzoky wanted to confront iran at the u.n. last week but president obama refused. a top administration official told the french they didn't want to spoil the image of obama's success at the u.n. i'm not kidding. now, according to the journal, president sarzoky was so

frustrated by obama' spinelessness that he mock hill indirectly in his u.n. address saying, "we are right to talk about the future, but the president comes before the future, and the present includes two major nuclear cries sess. we live in the tony reali world, not a virtual one." i never thought i'd say this, mr. president, but you should listen to the french. >> and tonight's "media mash" segment is brought to you by "the new york times." acorn employees were seen offering help to an undercover pimp and prostitute. "the new york times" was doing nothing. shockingly the paper didn't report on the acorn story until almost a week after the videos surfaced. over the weekend "the times"' public editor tried to explain this, and he said -- now, these are his words -- "for days the time stood still.

its slow reflexes closely following its slow response to a controversy that forced the resignation of van jones suggested that it has trouble dealing with stories arising from the polemical world of talk radio, cable television and partisan blogs." no kidding. mr. hoyte denied that liberal bias had anything to do with why his paper missed yet another story. i'm sure he's right. now democrats joined forces yesterday to block an amendment that would require the baucus health care bill to be posted online for 72 hours before being voted on. now kentucky senator jim bunning offered the amendment which was squashed in a vote. the only democrat who supported the transparency measure was arkansas senator blanch lincoln. according to max baucus, the reason he won't allow americans to view this billion line, it would be, quote, too hard to post. that's right, he said it would take his committee and his staff up to two weeks to upload the legislation to the

internet. so much for transparency. and by the way, if they cannot accomplish a simple task of uploading a bill, how do they plan on running the entire u.s. healthcare system in the first place? just a thought. now, a six-year eminent domain legal battle in long branch, new jersey, has finally been resolved. this was a story we covered more than three years ago on sean hannity. let's take a look. >> i don't know where i'm going to go. >> my first reaction was very devastating because at the time i had a brother in iraq. and my first response was here i have a brother fighting for the rights of other people and his sister's rights are being taken from her. >> now the city decides that this is a nice place for someone else, so they're throwing us out. i don't want to leave it. they're going to have to fight to get me out. sean: three years later, i'm happy to report that the city has dropped its plan to seize their land.

and by the way, congratulations to all of those homeowners for standing up against the government and winning. and that is the news tonight from "hannity's america." don't forget, text, do you think chicago should be hosting the 2016 olympics? text h 1 for yes, h 2 for no, and h 3 if you don't care. text your votes to 36288 and the answers will come up at the end of the program. let not your hard be troubled, or great, great, "great american panel" and victoria straight ahead. ♪

[captioning made possible by fox news channel] sean: and tonight on our "great american panel," she is a former advisor to senate majority leader hear reid, penny lee is here. he is a columnist for "the washington times," executive vice president of adelman p.r., tony blankley is back and he's a best selling author whose latest book is "the hunted" the son of the former secretary of state, brian hague. our best to your dad, by the way. we've got this controversy over roman polanski, a famous director. when he was 44 years old -- he's now 76 -- he went to jack nicholson's house with a

13-year-old girl, pumps her up with quaaludes and alcohol and rapes this girl. he admits to it. he flees the country. i did a half-hour on my radio show today, just people saying, no, we shouldn't go after him, and there were a lot of callers. this came up on "the view." whoopi goldberg made some controversial comments. let's roll the tape. >> gosh. >> be realistic here, ok? he went to jail. he pled guilty to having sex with this young lady. so it's not like he allegedly had sex. he did have sex with her. what i'm saying is he did not rape her because she was aware and the family, apparently, was aware. sean: this wasn't rape-rape is -- >> look, i used to be a prosecutor. i'm sure she doesn't men -- if she thought about it, doesn't mean what she said. a child -- a 13-year-old child is drugged into insensibility and the man sodomizes her.

that's not just consensual sex between an 18 and a 17-year-old, sort of the classic statutory rape that's technical. that is the taking away the capacity of the girl to protect herself and to consent and attack her. and there's no moral statute of limitation os that. and it's incomprehensible to me, that anybody, if they thought about it for a minute, that he should get off. >> he has been getting off and he's been getting off for 30 years. he fled the country. he pled guilty and he fled the country, and he should be brought back and prosecuted. what he did was reprehensible and he caused the innocence of that 13-year-old child to lose that forever and he should pay the punishment for that. he's lived a luxury life over there in europe and he needs to be returned back and prosecuted to the full extent of the law. sean: all right. >> you know, i showed that tape to my 14-year-old daughter this afternoon without any prompting. and the second it was done -- and we love whoopi gold better. she is a great actress and i

adore her movies. when it was done, my daughter said, "my god, she doesn't know what she's talking about." that's from a 14-year-old. sean: i know whoopi. she's a friends of the program. if i had a chance to talk with her one-on-one, the guy is 44 years old. he drugged the girl. >> i think that what people often do is they confuse the artist for the art. and they love the person's art and they forget that they're not as good as their art. now, the fact that he's a great painter or a great singer or great director doesn't mean they're not a reprehensible person. >> you have to be perverted to be able to drug and rape a 13-year-old. i mean, something is wrong. >> he's a pedophile and a pervert. sean: and i don't know what's happened. this is one of these moments where i think it would be universal that this shocks the conscience of anybody that has a soul, and yet, people -- it's fairly widespread. if you look at some of the blogs and writings and some of

the authors and some of the comments, i don't get the sense of moral outrage that i would want in a case like this. the french government is appealing on this guy's behalf. the polish government apparently is going to get involved. you've got hollywood, you know, liberals out there defending this. >> you make an important point. you measure a civilization not by whether there are violations but whether people feel any sense of shame. and if people are not feeling shame at something like this, that reflects on our society, even though his sect is inherently an evil act. sean: but is this another case, too, where they go back and they say, well, she's kinds of consented. she's foregiven him. >> she was 13 years old. you don't consent -- you cannot consent. you're a child. one has to question whether or not -- why she was there in the first place. but she's 13 years old. she doesn't have the capacity to consent to a 44-year-old man who's drugged her. that's just ridiculous. >> i would like to see him in jail for the rest of his life,

however long he lives beyond his 76 years. from a legal standpoint, tony, do you think we get him back here successfully? do you think the extradition takes place? >> to be honest with you, i have no idea how vigorously the prosecutors will make the case. sean: they seem to be so far. >> and whether the french -- the swiss are going to consent to it or not. i think there's a lot of discretion on both sides of the ocean. sean: i want to go back to the video that we showed earl yes in the program -- earlier in the program and the horrible death of this honor students, a 16-year-old kid. we've got cell phone footage showing this group of teens viciously kicking him, hitting him, striking this kid. derrion albert is his name, you know. and it raises questions. it's become political because the president is on his way to appeal for the olympics to come to chicago. but i also think it's political in another way. but what is your reaction? does this make the case that

we're showing our kids too much violence on television, all the murders that they've seen by the time that they're 18? how does this happen to kids? how do they get that inoculated that they don't see the senselessness and the brutality and the evil of this atrocity? >> you know, i think most criminologists would say that when you have a crime epidemic like this, this peculiarity can spread. in chicago they've had 600 or 700 school children shot in the last three years of the they've had 50 to 60, 70 children killed, school children. you have an epidemic and something dramatic has to be done. that, what we saw on this tape, is the natural state of man if he's not civilized. it's what higher primates do in the absence of being civilized. we learn to suppress those violent attributes that are inherent within us, and that's what civilization is about and that's what manners and procedures are about. so it's not a question of them having learned the wrong thing,

they never learned the right thing. >> and it needs to be addressed. it's something that is, unfortunately, escalating, and we're seeing it appear not only in the school yards, but this heated rhetoric that we continue to have, this lack of civility for our common man is going on and pervasive. but this is a really sad and tragic situation. this kid was an honor student and he was trying, and his parents were having the responsibility to put him there in school. >> this is lack of civility. murdering a person with a board. you and i may be a little uncivil, but -- >> i understand that, but the rhetoric in which we're dealing with, the pure hatred, this is hatred. >> i guarantee you, those guys don't watch cable television. sean: liken this to the political debate? come on. >> i'm trying to say we had a doctor killed in a church in kansas because of intolerance and the lack of civility and hatred for him. >> this has to do with barbarism. these kids are not watching

health care debates. >> they don't have a point of reference. >> right. >> what i'm saying is when that level from their parents and from on down don't see a level -- >> i agree with you. >> then it is a lack of civility. sean: we'll come back more with our great, "great american panel." time to check in with greta van susteren with a sneak peek of what's coming up in 20 short minutes. it's right here. >> no, it's not right here. it's actually right here. we have the best show we have ever, ever had, and i wanted to make sure i got through all of this. we have former speaker of the house, newt gingrich, senator santorum, senator lindsay graham, iraq, afghanistan, president obama, we're talking about president sarzoky. it doesn't stop, sean. this is the best show ever, we've ever done is tonight. sean: you've had great shows over the years. greta: this is the best ever. best ever. best ever. sean: we'll be watching greta 20 minutes from now. more with our great, "great american panel," and victoria gotti growing up in the gotti

family.

sean: we continue now with our "great american panel." with that great addition, governor ed rendell came into the studio. so we threw a microphone on him. good to have you. >> thank you. sean: she worked for you. >> she did a great job. >> he was the best boss ever. >> well, the last show i saw, we beat up on her and they kept calling her peggy. sean: is that true? i don't remember that part. >> not you, but the other

panelists. sean: here we have a general that's saying to the president in august that we're going to run out of troops, that we risk failure in afghanistan, and the president decides to go get the olympics for chicago. here we have unemployment heading into double digits and the president chooses to go fight for the olympics. do you think his priorities are screwed up, governor, in any way? >> well, it's a one-day trip. i don't think it's distracting much from his attention. i'm not sure i would have done it. he's a chicagoian through and through. he loves sports, loves his country. it would be a great thing for chicago to get. but i agree with you, we've got to focus on the central issues -- afghanistan, the economy, health care. but do we miss the president for 24 hours? sean: general mcchrystal said -- i'll throw this to tony -- on "60 minutes" he doesn't speak to the president. and he sent this memorandum in late august saying we risk failure in afghanistan. how do you not talk to your

general after a memo like that is sent? >> look, i mean, i think the president is not well advised in the way in which he is handling this decision. i think it's a vital decision that he has to make regarding afghanistan. and it's not just the quality of the decision he's going to make, it's how both the troops in the field and the enemy and everybody else sees the decision-making process. i think the decision-making process is too visible and too public. he ought to get together with whatever resources he needs and make his decision. i think in retrospect he won't think that this is the best way to execute the decision-making. sean: what do you think? >> imagine if you're a kid and you're sitting in a foxhole on the border in afghanistan today and you're looking back here. what are you seeing? sean: talk to the general. listen. one of the things president bush said, he said i'll give you whatever you need to get the job done, and that should be the right philosophy of any president. >> but he should take a little bit of a pause, take a step

backwards. the last thing we want is for another faulty argument to say mission accomplished behind us and we're still in an intractable war. so he's trying to assembly the right group and get everything together and going through a strategic plan. >> it was a major issue when they were running for president. >> so when you're running for president and you're president you get two different types of information. >> i think you have to keep this in context. i'm sure there were russian generals who told the russian premiere, we can win this war, give us more troops. russians got the living daylights kicked out of them. nobody has done a very good job at conquering afghanistan, and you've got to keep it in the historical context. i'm not saying the president is not going to decide not to add troops. sean: condi rice says if you want another 9/11, pull out of afghanistan. >> the way in which -- you say we have plenty of time. the fact is -- >> no, he said it's ok to take a pause. >> it's going toe take several months to mobilize, uptrain and

transport the troops. we can't delay months. >> we're not delaying months. >> where do you think we're going to get these troops, by the way? as commander and chief of the national guard, a brigade just came back from iraq and afghanistan. where do you think we're going to get them, by the way? sean: penny is saying, all right, maybe we should pause. don't you need to have that discussion almost immediately? how do you then excuse the president not talking to the general? >> well, there is a chain of commands and he is moving through the chain of command. jon: this is his top general. >> petraeus and others -- sean: he's not talking to them. how do you not talk to the general who says you're about to lose? >> he's engaging with them and he's putting together the -- sean: he talked to him once in 70 days. >> doesn't mean that he's not getting the intelligence and the information that he needs to make a sound decision. >> how often has general jones talked to general mcchrystal? that's a key factor, too. you don't have to talk directly, although he think he

should. does anybody think it's a bad idea to talk to senator mccain? i think it's a good idea. >> and he spent a year from the point that he realized that the strategy was broken before he finally fixed it with a surge. and that's a legitimate -- >> we lost a year. we lost a year. >> we lost a year and we lost 1 to you kids -- 1,000 kids. this is a war going on and you have to make these decisions quickly. you can't pontificate. >> now we can have this discussion. >> now we have to decide what to do in the future. you can refight the old wars. >> i'm not refighting. i'm stating a fact. >> the troops are fighting and dying up-tempo, while the decision-making process in washington is taking a slower pace. sean: let me throw one other thing in the mix. >> nobody's answered that question. where are we going to get the troops? you can't be defensive of any national guards. 80% of our guardsmen have been over for multiple tours and

they're done, they're cooked. where are we getting the troops? >> the issue is make the decision. talk to your advisors. but make it quickly. >> clearly the general is determined that there are troops or he wouldn't be making the request for whatever number it is if they don't -- i agree with you. i had a son in the national guard and they're working hard. >> sony, uff you'd be enormously proud of the stryker brigade. they're one of the best. but where are we going to get the troops? sean: the bottom line is obama is pulling out of iraq. that's what he told the u.n. by the way, don't you envision the world, kumbaya, give peace a chance without nuclear weapons? do you think that's a realistic vision? do you think it's smart to sit down with ahmadinejad next week in light of the missile he fired? would you sit down with him? >> i'd go to increased

sanctions first. sean: so you wouldn't sit down with him. >> i think the british and the french and the president sent a very strong message. but you can be strong and you can be tough. what date is it, october 3? let's see what he comes up with. and if he doesn't, then let's see what we do. >> i'll bet we don't bomb on october 4. i'll bet we don't. there will be more talk. >> but do you think that bombing on october 4 is the right strategy? sean: honestly, the sooner we take out the nuclear facilities, us or the israelis or together, the better off the world is going to be, because i take ahmadinejad at his word. i think he wants israel wiped off the map. he's a holocaust dehner. he's got ties to every terrorist group in the middle east. if we don't take it out we risk a second holocaust. >> but people who know the middle east very, very well, sean, say we do this, and we solidify the radicals for the

next 20 years. >> you're a very practical guy. do you think that that regime is going to be influenced by whatever economic forces? if they're hell-bent on getting it, do you think we can deter them by economic factors or not? >> not entirely. i don't think you can deter the regime. sean: governor, thanks for popping in. good to see you. great panel. coming up, victoria gotti is setting the record straight in a brand-new back. she's here to tell us what it was like growing up. . . quality and reliability... are more than words here. it's personal. i have diabetes. rodney's kid too.

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sean: all right, so, have you ever wondered what it was like to grow up in a mob family? the book is "this family of mine, growing up gotti," and the

author, victoria gotti, is here. you had a terrible life. one of your siblings was killed, a horrible marriage. jail. so many people see "the godfather," "the sopranos," but it is really not like that in reality. >> no. i said in my book that i love the man, my dad, but i loathed the life. i do not get the whole fascination with it. i do not get the romanticism. i just do not get it. i do not see what other people find so fascinating or attractive about that. sean: you know, you apparently

got your father's blessing to write this book, the head of one of the biggest crime families. when did you know this was his life? >> it is not about wanting to believe or going into denial or things like that. i think really, probably the late-1980s, when tabloid after tabloid, headline after headline started to surface. you do not want to believe certain things, and people make light of them in your immediate family, and i remember one conversation when my mom, my sister, and i were having a three-way call, and my mom said something funny at the time, like, "can you believe it? this man? " what will they think of next?" -- this man?" "what will they think of next?" and headlines continue.

you just start really paying close attention. -- closer attention. sean: and then you came to believe that your father was the head of one of the biggest crime families in the country, and one of your memories is of visiting him in jail and a young age. >> yes, a lot of people do not understand. what they think is romantic or attractive -- the ugliness. it is so ugly. sean: it is stark. it is evil. there is a lot of evil. -- it is dark. >> i swore i would never, ever put my children in that position or in that life. sean: the average person thinks about the mob, and they think about "the godfather." and they think about "the

sopranos." this is not something i have followed a lot in my life, but you would think of murder, crime, extortion, pane, misery, and happiness -- pain, misery, unhappiness, and that was your life. >> some people have said to me, "you have put up with so much. how do you do it?" sean: you loathed the lights, but you love your father. i do not know what is true or not true about your father -- you loathed the life. he even said to you, "do not portray as a saint -- portray me as a saint." >> it would be so easy for me to

say that this was a daddy dearest book, and i hated this man. it would be so much easier for me to explain away things that he did, choices he made, but it is so hard, because i love this man. sean: can you think of some of the things that he may have been responsible for? >> honestly, i try not to. sean: but you see the truth? >> yes, you cannot help but see it. you have to see it. sean: you lost your brother. this was a pretty famous case. he was run over. you gave more details. i did not know until i read your book that he was drunk at the time. >> actually, in 1970's or 1980's, they did not do on the spot breathalyzer s -- in the 1970's or 1980's.

shaw -- sean: your father even thought it was an accident. but after the death of your brother, he disappeared after the funeral. do you have any doubt how that happens? -- happened? >> there are so many people who came forward and said, "oh, it was dad." there were so many informants who professed to be there from the beginning, the right-hand man who said he had been there on the court, off the court. you have other people saying similar, did no -- ditto. nothing checked out. sean: are you worried that your sons have the gott