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raises red flags as a defense attorney. from my perspective, he did come across as credible, i would say. he did shade his tesmony from the start. he certainly was trying to cover

his hide. so i think a lot of what the jury, they see this, will depend on his credibility. >> john, your reaction either to the testimony of i guess i could call him the former co-defendant now, of course, the star prosecution witness, or to the case in general? >> you know, i agree. i think there are issues of credibili credibility like in any trial. this particular witness, again, not a lot is known about him. apparently he really hasn't had a lot of run-ins with the law, where this person on trial is an offender. i can understand using this guy as a witness in the case. you're talking about a gang that can't shoot straight and a bunch of people that are dysfunctional in a lot of ways. the government has to rely on questionable witnesses to prosecute a case like this. >> let me jump out to beth. i have a really interesting post here from roger on my facebook page. more about leroy la roes, who i

guess turns out to be the interesting figure in all of this, at least so far having testified. roger acknowledges, as do our guests, that what laroes went through was -- nobody is mentioning gang affiliations. could that have been a part of it? was there a driver involved in all of this? and what happed to la rose's car and who was driving it? i heard jack ford interview larose's attorney earlier and i thought it was a good explanation. if you take a chance on a trial in this country, you're more likely to be convicted than not. we know if you go to trial in this country you're 99% likely to be convicted. a lot of people take a chance with a plea, pleading guilty. can you say a little more having watched the bulk about his testimony about what his mote

vagus were to plead guilty? he was asked that about prosecutors and defense attorneys whaxt do we know about that? >> reporter: the prosecution waived the absolute minimum sentence chshgs is a 20 years. a life sentence with a minimum of 20 years unless the prosecution waived it. they did in this case and gave him 7ees. he's only about 3, 3 1/2 do go. he sees light at the end of a pretty short tunnel for a murder conviction. even though he maintains he fired in self-defense he felt bad for what happen to the little girl because he feels if he hadn't been in the liberty city housing project looking for weed that day, maybe she'd still be alive. he said he didn't provoke the incident but realizes he was a participant in it because his presence apparently provoked darling. that's his position. i do believe that as his attorney said, you you really roll the dice at a trial that he

could have faced significantly more time if he was convicted of second-degree murder. of course, a minimum of 20 years. now, in addition, jami, the prosecution's proof is getting weaker and weaker against larose. one of their key witness recanted, a relative of darling's, who said she saw larose with the gun. she recanted. nobody heard larose say anything. their proof was getting weaker and also, ms. jenkins wasn't shot by larose's gun. >> the ammunition recovered from her body attested to it. i heard you reporting on the key witness earlier. that attests to the motivation of prosecutors to make a deal with the witness. there's also an interesting conversation happening on my facebook page about the intent

issue, beth. before wgo to break, as we wait for mr. sam brown to testify or ptorsrosecuo make an interesting strategy if they can't find sam brown today, their next witness. there' the question of intent. clearly the little girl they didn't want too die. they're talking about the intent question. one of the posts from mike is about transferred intent. can you say a little bit about that and how intent works in a case like this, beth. >> reporter: well, this is not an intentional theory of second-degree murder that he's charged with, but if you intend to harm, assault, kill, whatever, another person andou y miss, for example, and you kill somebody else, that intent is transferred to the victim you actually killed. but that's not ha's going on here. the theory here is that he had a

depraved mind by opening fire in an area where it's densely populated and children are playing. so that's -- they don't have to prove intent here. besides, the intent is a little muddied because each side said the other fieed first. rather than have to prove that, the prosecution opted for an equally strong theory of this depraved mind. >> so, beth being we are at a second-degree murder trial, yet it is a potential life sentence, is it not? >> reporter: yes, it's life with a minimum of 20 years. >> beth, we'll check in with you in a bit. beth is going to investigate what's happening with our missing witness, mr. sam brown. we're going to take a very quick break. we expect live action to resume at any moment. as we go to break, it gives you a chance to head to your computer. send us an e-mail, post, let us know what you think about the case.÷ is damon darling's best defense self-defense?

head to cnn.com/crime.

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seret the point of this shootond t dea of s je sadly, has. da thankou smuch for joining us andor yr fine iork at theiami rald. now t challenges that newspapers are facing. we always champion newspapers on this program. i wantjaxd to champion yours. david with the miami herald, one of the finest newspapers in this country. we thank him for joining us today. we'll look at the 13th juror question today. we want to know if you think the testimony of leroy larose helped the prosecution. 79% of you you are saying yes, 21% voting no. logon to our website, cast your vote. this is the "best defense," and we'll be right back. smoo . (pouring rain)

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i'm jami floyd. this is the "best defense." we are waiting for a witness, mr. sam brown, a witness the prosecution thought would be ready. he is allegedly an eyewitness to the shooting of an innocent bysta bystander. the defendant says he was responding in selfefense. there is a g, big dispute of

whoired first. as we wait for mr. brown to arrive and thers a big question ahethbout w he'll arrive and what the prosecution will do if he doesn't, as we wait for theto figure all of that out,e'll take a lookack at one othe twlleg shooters inhis case. is very,y impornt the prosecutn's case. he originally was charged in the case wit second-degree murder and then he decided to take a deal. to take a deal in the case to testify. so he becomes the state's key witness in the case, ler larose. s lilet'en to some of his testimy. along the way, you you can try to figure out why he would plead guilty to second-degree murder. >> so where do yountly curre live? i'm housed at stockade facility ilhouse. >> is that in jail ? >> yes. >> do you you remember july 1,

2006? >> s. >> taking you back to that time, who were you living with? >> i was living wit girlfriend and one o sons and my expected n, a newborn. >> how many chdren d youo you have? >> four. >> at that time, how many children did you have? >> three ane on the way. >> back in july of2006, how far along was your girlfriend egnant? >> she was two days away from having a scheduled c-section. >> did you live in the libty square hng project? >> no. >> did you have a job? >>yes. >> how many jobsid you you have? >> two. what were your jobs? >> doing stocking at walmart and construction. >> what times of the day did you wok? >> the anc shift. >> can you tell us you about that? what did you used to do at your >> stocking at walmart and prod e secti meat section and buil storefront -- lum storefronts. >> why were you working two jobs? >> because my girlfriend was on her maternity leav

>> she hadlready srted her leave? >> yes. >> taking you back to two months prior to june 1st, did an incident occur? >> yes. >> what incident was that? >> i was driving down the street and somebody pulled up you beside me and shot two rounds in the car. >> and wt car were you driving? a gray honda afford with rims on it, dark tint. >> whose car was that? >> it's registered to my girlfriend. >> was that a car you normally drove? >> yes. >> who else had access to that car? >> my girlfriend, family members. >> just friends and family often sit in that car to be transported places? >> yes. >> what time of day were you shot at two months prior to this that we're here for today? >> like 8:00, 00 at night. >> and where were you drivg? n 17th ave9th st. s thatlose the ppened?tg >> yes. >> whe you'r sat,

see who' sg ayo >> it see a coff. >> what color was the car? >> burgundy -- black. it was a dark-colored car. >> how many shots are fired at you? >> two. >> when the shots are fired at you, are you struck? >> yes. >> where? >> in my shoulder. >> sir, can you step down. can you show the members of the jury where you were shot. you're pointing to an area on your upper left arm. >> yes. >> this is where you were shot two months prior to the incident we're here for today. >> yes. >> you can go ahead and have a seat. when you were shot, did you see what happened to the bullet that went through your arm? >> yes. it was lodged in -- on the other side of the passenger's side.

>> sir, i'm showing you what's be been marked as state's exhibit 70 and 71 you in this case. >> yes. >> do you recognize these? >> yes. >> what are they? >> the inside of my car, the door panel. >> was that there prior to the day you were shot in the arm? >> no. >> is this where the bullet lodged after it hit you in the arm? >> yes. >> permission to publish, your honor. again, this is two months prior to the shooting that occur nd th in this case? >> yes. >> when you were shot that time,

where did you go afterwards? >> i went to the hospital. >> were you treated? >> yes. >> as a result of that shooting, did you do anything? >> yes. >> what? >> i went and purchased a firearm. >> why did you purchase a firearm? >> for protection. >> and did you carry that firearm? >> only when i went into the liberty city area. >> why when you went to that area? >> because that's the place where i was shot the first time. >> what type of gun did you purchase? >> a .44. >> a .44 what? >> revolver. >> and when you say resloa revo would you you describe it. >> like a round cylinder, snug nose, black and brown color. >> how many shot can that revolver fire? >> six. >> did it have any extra magazines or ability to fire more bullets? >> no. >> did it have any extra equipment that allowed it to add

more bullets without physically opening the chamber and putting them in? >> no. >> where did you buy it? >> on the street. >> for how much? >> $100. >> okay. i am not, unlike so many of you, a card carrying member of the nra, but i know enough to know that a .44 is not going to help you with an ak-47. that i know. john, help me out. maybe my friend here, leroy, should just not go to that particular part of town. maybe that' the way to protect yourself. i mean, miami is a big city. i've been there many, many times. just don't go there if you just avoid it, you you don't need the gun. >> you're right. i mean, you're trying to bolster this guy's credibility. i have real problems with that. i think clearly she's trying to

justify maybe his behavior. what she's believing out is the most important factor, that he was going there to buy drugs. that's critical. >> it's just some weed. >> from that perspective, you clearly know that his intent, he knows he's going into a dangerous area, he knees he buying drugs. >> with a gun. >> these are all factors that have such an opening for a defense attorney to come back and say, wait a minute. what are we talking about? why did cao there? he's not there for some noble reason. he's there to buy drugs. with that comes the possibility that violence could occur and the possibility that somebody could be shot, especially had when you go buy a handgun. we don't know circumstances of why he was before. he's saying it was a random act. we don't know if he was involved in some other incident. >> well, he does say he bought the gun because he had been shot before in this part of town. >> right. you you don't know the circumstances of why he was shot in that part town. >> he was just minding his business and he was shot.

>> if you accept that premise, and i don't. >> no? >> i'm a florida lawyer. >> you're cynical, john jennifer, help me out. maybe my man leroy should just stay out of that part of town. >> yeah. as much as the prosecution is trying to clean up leroy, let's -- nobody is that unlucky that they get shot twice by some random person. >> now, wait a minute. have you heard of 50 cent? do you know how many times he's been shot? >> i don't think he's just un u unlucky either. i think this guy is up to no good. he's not just randomly going to buy a little bit of weed and getting shot every time he goes into the neighborhood. there's something more to the story. i don't know if it's gang related. there's something more to this story. even in bad neighborhoods, people are not that unlucky that they get shot twice minding their own business. >> well, this is what my friend paul on facebook says.

he says that leroy has a very good lawyer because he took the deal. >> yeah. >> and we know why he took the deal, because he's not so street smart that he knew it was a good deal. he had a lawyer who convinced him to take the deal. >> right. >> i think we can all agree on that. somebody say amen. >> amen. >> come on now. amen. let's take a break. as we go to break, it gives us a chance to look at what more of you are saying about the case. here's one from jeffrey in california who wrote to our page, okay, so i'm a convicted felon. i'm carrying an ak-47. and i choose to fire that weapon in a public setting and kill an innocent person, a child, and i can claim i was defending myself? if you're a convicted felon, use a gun, take a life, go directly to jail. enough said. tracy in pennsylvania says, housing projects are residential so of course they have kids. but poverty breeds crime so the residents have to live in fear all the time. so they have guns to protect

themselves from the criminals that also have guns and they learn to live with it we like to turn a blind eye to it. they can't just lock their kids inside all the time. so if we want this to stop, we need to reach down and pull people up out of poverty. tracey, write a note to glenn beck. good luck with that message! visit our crime page at cnn.com/crime. we'll be right back.

a 9-year-old caught in the cross fire during a shootout in her housing project dies, but who fired the fatal shot and why?

i'm jami floyd. this is the "best defense." well, we have a missing witness. the prosecution feels the witness is so important and must be called in order and so the jury has been kept waiting. the let's just put it frankly. the jury had a lunch break. the lunch break has now been extended. all of this for mr. sam brown, a civilian eyewitness to the shooting that left 9-year-old shea jenkins dead. she was never intended to be the victim. of everyone admits she was caught in the cross fie of a shootout between two men, one o whom a key witness for the prosecution, the other charged wisecond-degree murder. wan t c witness inrder so the jury is pt waingo ar we, fry. to look at the testiny of lero larose who admits he went to the housing project with gun, to buy drs, but hes he did not fir first shot

and he ss heno fille with remorse. at's why he took a deal, pleadeguilty tosecond-degree murder. let's take you back inor more of his important testimony in this case. >> jy 1, . did there com a time when you go to t liberty square hsing project? >> yes. >> why do you you go there? >> t buyome weed. >> are you armed? yes. >> what are you armed with? >> a .44 revolver. >> where do you hav your you fiarm? >> inight r et. >> why didou go t that area? >> to buye marijuana. >> wha aret car you drivin >> gray honda accord with rims and dark tint. >> is it the same honda you you driving two months prior when youere shot at? yes.

>> do you recognize what i'm shoeg y showing you you? >> yes. >> for the record, i'm showing you you state's exhibit 19. what is it? >>. [ inaudible ] >> ere'sarkings on the exhibit? >> yes. >> black marker? >> yes. >> you you haven't put that ere? >> no. >> do you recognize the main streets he? >> yes. this would be 67th street. >> hold on. you're indicating to the street at theop of the picture as a jor large roads as 12th avenue. is that right? >> yes. >> now, over to the right you're showing the right-most corner has a street which ends off the corner of the picture. you're calling that what avenu or street? >> 67th street. >> that's 67th street. okay, sir. when you arrived that day, where did you park your car?

>> i parked in thisarea. >> what street is this on? >> 17th avenue. >> why did you park your car he? >> because i was going to walk around the corner and go buy the weed. >> wait. >> i was going to walk around the corne and go buy ed. iidn't want the police to catch me buying it and tow the car. >> do you walk over to buy your weed? >> yes. >> and do you you normally buy your weed over here where these cars are? >> yes. >> once you go to that area, do buweed fr?he people you normally >> no. >> at some point, do you walk west again? >> yes. >> go ahead and have a seat. >> now, as you walk west, are you walking on a walk way? >>yes. >> are there apartments on both sides of you? >> yes. >> as you're walking up the walkway, where are your hands?

>> at my side. >> where's your firearm? n my pocket. >> is it visible? >> no. >> what kind of shirt are you wearing? >> long white t-shirt. >> is it tight to your body? >> no. >> now, w awaing in that direction? >> because i'm walking bac t my car. >> is your car in that direion? >> yes. was wt o where i was. >> as you walk that way, does there com a time when a pso says something to you? >> yes. >> prior that person saying ing to you you, what do you you see? >> i lked up and i saw somebody sitting at the end o th alleyway in a chair with an assaulrifle beside them. >> what did you thin >> i said [ bleep ] is going to ja >> why? >> becau he's sitting out ere in broad daylighth a gun. >> then what happ? >> i kept walkingest o65 terrace. >> does there come a time when that person spe to you?

>> yes. >> what do they say? >> they said w are d back there? >> describe what that person was wearing. he had on a hat, basebal cap, undershirt, some shorts and some brown timberline boots. >> douemember the boots? >> >> why do you remembe them? >> just probably because i lik them. >> did it seem stran that somebody would b wearing boots in july? yeah. >> in miami? >> it was hot out. >> so the persays wh to you? >>hat are you you doi back >> what, anythg, did you you do? >> i didn' think he was talki to m i looked behind me as i was walking. >> when you you lookedehind you, did you see anybody behind you? >> no. >> what happens next? >> i kept walkin then he say it again. i kept walking. >> okay. i'm going to ask you you to

speak in that microphone and direct your answers to the ladies and gentlemen of the jury. >> okay. >> then he says it again. what did he say the second time? >> what are you doing back there, yo? widt dou you say? >> i threw up you a weed sign like i was looking for weed. >> what happens next? >> he upped the gun on me. >> can you show us what you mean. >> he pointed the assault rifle at me. >> could you you describe the assault rifle. >> it was all black. >> at thtime he pointed the assault rifle at you, do you have your gun ou no. threw myands up you when he pointed the gun at me. >> why did you throw your hands up? >> because he wasntghe gun at. ere you id? >> i wasn't,e terrified he was going to kill me. ormethg. was gog to rob me >> wha did you do ne >> he asked me wha was i doing ck there. >> and what do y say? i told h i wim loo for weed. >> he said, you're the one that drive the gray honda with

e rims on it. >> when he says that, what happened? >> i sa, am iupposed to be looking for him i said, no, i'm looking for weed i. don't the know what you're talking about. >> so you're having a backnd forth? >> yes. >> where's yourirea during the discussion? >> in my pocket. >> where's his firearm? >> pointed at me. >> what happens next? >> that's when he tol me, do i have anything on me. told me to lift my shirt up before i could even move, he turned and looked to the side, lookt the other side. that's when i looked to the side and saw you there was somebody else. >> you saw somebody else doing what? >> snding by a pole. >> and did you see anything els >>at that person had? yes. >> what? >> he had an assault rifle next to him. >> so you saw a second person with an assault rifle in thifr hand. >> yes. >> yousawan the m motioning at at person? >> no.

he justeí[(ñ looked. when he looked back, he opened fire. >> had he said yo, yo, yo, in that direct that's wha me me look up y at him again. >> i'm going to a y to step of does there come a point -- do you keepalng forward as heashe pnted at you yo >> no. i stop threw myands uyou. >> can you showhe memrsf the jury where you're standing when what happen. >> was like in this area, not past the corner of this building but on -- steppedff thede si >> where is the persowith the timberline boots standing? >> ver >>ighere? >> yeah. right off this porch in the grass ea. >> song an assault rifle at you. at what point do you see another person wit gun? >> when he looke o this way. that's when turned my head and looked. this other guy was -- >> you say the other guyas

there. int to where the other guy was. >> where the pole was. >> wait. i rcat h you you, sir. >> on the other porch by the les. >> i'm going to have you mark with be since there's alrea black w o this where that second person with a assault rifle was standing. put on x, please. then put your you initiinials te xt to it. okay. go ahead and have seat. >> all right. so he's walking us you up you to the confrontationha then becomes fatal for a9-ye-old rl, shea jenkins, w loses her li. let meng jennirnd john theintocoersation. i ht here on my facebook page from sue who says, jami, u you just asked yr guuestion i've been thngf as. why go back there? i would never go bac to neighborhood where'd been shot, not for anyreason.

>> that makes the point we all made. here's question from shyl, a goode. can self-defense be a valid defense if you're kaeing an illegal ak does havg an illegal weapon invadate the defense? if you yhave a gun that is not you use that weapon, are you d entitled to the defense? a smart question, isn't it? jeiferwhat do you you think? >> it's a commo senseestion. self-dense toor inancelaim murder, but you might still be on the hook for various other crimes, includingeckless discharge of afirearm. >> possessio of an illegal firearm. >> you're not off the hook tirely, but it doesn't mean that you you can't sti assert se-defense to a chae of muer for instance. >> fascinating. john, i want to come over to you because we do hav this constant debaten our country over the second amendmt. of course, it's befe the u.s. sueme courtain, even though

last year theysed on the question of the district of columbia and regulation of firear t iheidua right to carry a firearm. y're looking at icago, which is of course not aed jurisdictn like d.c. but now wre lking at ste andmunicipalities. so the ak-47, it just seems to , sure, you might want to a fiarm, butnak7 has one purpose only, and that is to m civilians. you're not hunting deer with an you'reunbein e no'r defending yrself in theaytven l coueroy the ak-47 is an assault weapon, and it doesn't see to me that this is what the founders would have contemplated even i w cepthet r u.s sup court intetatn of amendm ay yojohn? youknow, i agree.

hamilt andmadison, the unding fathers, didot envision i the ier city of miami someone would walk around with an assault rif and essentiaplay t o police withinheirtle lit neighborhood and at random shoot up the whole neiborhood. you know,his is --t's always going to be a big te, debae second amendment. innately, people want to hunt. asloda resident and florida lawyer, aot o peoe hunts ll nthndrida but this i the inner city. this is not the purpose of han oht rving a like this in h possession. i wanted to say a quick thing on the very good question asked b the - >> sheryl >> wheer or not ther is a defense. in florida w have the sta your ground law you. >> i want to talk lotore about that. please go ahead. >> that's an imporompotant cnt in this case. that was an excellent question. you'd still be able to raise a self-defense defense because you ve a weapon y used tt weapon. but there are circumstances where on'tyou deed to use a

weapon. i mean, one of thehings that came about in florida, the origins of this law, washat somebodyas chase out of their own home by someone invading the property. that person chased this other person, the ownehome and nally the person turned around, the homeowner, ran from his own he and shot the assailant and they charged that person then they said in florida, wait a minute. we're going to have to change this. you don't have to run from your own home to protect yourself >> in cifornia where i practiced and the law you may have changed recently, until rently we did not have that legislatio i ow in tex they do. it varies from state to state. i want tosk you a lot about that. we'll also have beth karas joining us you at the topf the hour sshan help us to understand that. wexpect l aionive to resume shortly as well. dogo away. we'll take a quick break. live testimony will contin we hav a 24-year-old man, a very young man, facing a possible life sentence. but get this, he's facing life for the fatal shooting of a 9-year-old girl. stay with us

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up next on "the best defense," a miami man on trial for the fatal shooting of a

9-year-old girl. darling admits he was involved in the shootout but says he acted in self-defense. a new hour of "best defense" starts right now. i'm jami floyd. this is "the best defense." two men have been charged in shooting of 9-year-old jenkins. one man has already pleaded guilty to second-degree murder. he's serving a seven-year sentence. he's now the state's key witness against the other man, damon "red rock" dargliling.

the victim was caught in a shoot out. darling claims he acted in self-defense. he thufurther claims a third ma was involved. beth karas is outside that miami courthouse. beth, we've been waiting for a mystery witness of sorts, to arrive. a mr. sam brown who apparently witnessed it all. have we found mr. brown? and if not, do we know why he's missing? >> reporter: well, i don't have any confirmation that he's been found. however, the attorneys have been in court. we did see some cables being ung, which seems to indicate they're getting ready for the lead detective to testify, at least at some point this afternoon. doesn't mean mr. brown't testify, but garcia, we expect, will. and the cables being run are to set up monitors to show the vad o videotaped statement that damon darling gave. he places himself there with an ak-47 in his hands, although he says he shot in self-defense. that's supposed to be played sometime this afternoon. the lawyers have just stepped out to look at a tape. i suspect it's yet another tape that will be played on

cross-examination of the lead detective, who participated in an a & e show on "the first 48" and did an episode on this case. there are parts of the police interrogation, which is what i was just talking about, damonlidame dar darling's statement to the police. i think the lawyers are looking at that because they had to extract the portions that could be played from the a & e show. sam brown, not sure if he's been found. why he's missing, we don't know. the prosecutor said he had health issues and it may be related to health. not any sort of fear of testifying. >> because, beth, some of the witnesses have expressed concern for their safety in testifying, either wanting to not testify at all or change their testimony from earlier statements, or at the very least have their faces obscured on national television. >> reporter: that's right. there was a witness yesterday, a

woman who's always been reticent to testify and cooperate with law enforcement. however, she did. and she knew sherdavia jenkins. she has seven children of her own. she lives just across the way. she witnessed the argument. she heard it all and she saw parts of it from her second-story bedroom window. she was so terrified yesterday. when the judge ordered her to testify even with the cameras, because she would have testified without cameras, according to her, she turned away from the jury, which was also away from the camera. she had her head bowed with her long hair covering her face. but not all the time. her face was visible. the jurors did see her. but she was not a very willing participant in yesterday's proceedings. >> now, beth, as we've been waiting for the action to resume, we've been listening not surprisingly to the testimony of

laro larose. he made a statement that damon said to him, you're the one who drives that honda. the one with the fancy rims. and she wants to know how he knew about the car. because he would have had to know who the driver of the car was. and she thought that they'd never known each other. i thought i'd read in the material is materials, beth, they'd had a previous altercation. give us a sense of the relationship between these two men. did they know each other? did they have a bad relationship going into this? is this a happenstance first-time meeting that evolves into a shooting? how did this come about on this fatal day that shay jenkins lost her life? >> it's a little fuzzy. he says he did not know da rola.

he thought the gun used in the shooting here right after he was shot at, driving in the honda, because he feared for his safety going into the liberty square apartments, that area. he said that people on the streets later told him that it was red rock, damon darling, who shot him. now, at the hearing on september 17th, a few civilians testified, we expect will also testify at the trial, to witnessing an encounter. nothing more than some stares and maybe a little bump of shoulder or something, between these two at a car wash two or three months before the shooting of sherdavia. yesterday when larose testified, he said i go to a lot of car washes. i wash the honda with the rooms and tinted windows two times a

week. i take my kids. i don't know darling. i never had a rub-in with him. i never brushed shoulders with him. i never stared him down. there are witnesses that say that happenhappened. he says it did not happen. it's really not clear whether or not they know each other or who's telling the truth here. larose says he didn't fear damon darling when he saw him with the ak-47 this fateful day. he thought to himself, that a-hole, is what he testified to, he's going to get himself arrested. he's out in broad daylight with an assault weapon. he said he didn't fear him. he thought he might get robbed by the guy. but he didn't have reason to fear him. he didn't have his own gun out, either. larose says there was no beef. darling in his statement saying -- no. i'm sorry. it was yesterday darling's girlfriend testified that darling told her the day after the shooting, i thought he was coming to quash the beef. meaning settle the problem we had.

instead, he opened fire on me. we really don't know what the truth is. >> and we may never, beth karas. sadly a 9-year-old girl has lost her life, whatever the truth of the matter of the relationship between these two men. we're going to take a very quick break, beth. we do see a little bit of activity in that courtroom. so we hope not to miss a moment of live action. as we go to break, let's take a look at what a couple of you are saying about the case as we get ready for more live action. here's one from trent in north carolina who says it amazing me that citizens of the usa scream, they're going to euthanize our olderly at the mere mention of health care reform being tendered by president obama. where are these people when it comes to handgun and assault rifle reform? wake up, america! shay was only 9 years old, not 79. she never stood a chance against an ak-47. here's one from kentucky. the fact of the matter is darling is a convicted felon

which meant he should not have been in possession of a firearm. as a result of the choice he made to go into the neighborhood with a gun, an innocent child died. there was nothing logical or reasonable he can use as a defense. her life was lost. he should lose his, too. thank you both for your comments. keep them coming. visit our crime page, cnn.com/crime, and we'll be right back.

i'm jami floyd. this is "the best defense." live action getting urnds way in our miami courtroom where damon darling is on trial for the death of 9-year-old shay jenkins. i've got two terrific guests watching with me here today, both criminal defense attorneys. they'll be watching all the action with me today. right now the judge is entertaining arguments from the lawyers out of the presence of the jury about what portions "the first 48" television program will be played for the jury. this is in an effort to get the defendant's statement made to police before the juror without extraneous portions of that television program being played for the jury. let's take you in live. >> -- start at 10:30.

10:15, you'll come in a few minutes earlier. we'll go over the tape issue one more time. >> thank you. >> all right. very well. anything else? all right. let's bring the jury in. all right. folks, it seems to me, jennifer and john, that if prosecutors didn't run a tape of this thing on their own, that -- "the first 48." it's a television program. i don't get it. >> i don't get what police department has a policy that before a case even goes to trial, your detectives are out there talking about the case? they're going to be on tv. >> yeah. i mean, i guess that's a strong motivation to do it. but it does seem to compromise the case potentially. but as a defense attorney, i love it. >> and i guess that's why there's no objection here. john, i would imagine they've gone through this. they've parsed through it. i guess i'll get beth karas to weigh in on this. they've had to make some sort of

stipulation about what portions will come in and what ptions won't. there's going to be a lot of stop and start for the judge when they actually get around to playing this thing. >> yeah. unfortunately sometimes when you're doing a case on the cheap and not using technology, especially in civil cases. we use it all the time. we spend serious money. recreate how a case occurred. in a criminal case, the government's limited on their budget budget. what's happening, the jury is not going to be able to see all this television show. you have to redact portions of it. it may be prejudicial. that's the complicated issue for the court. normally when you have the good technology, that's already done so you don't have that problem. >> and there's no money for fancy editing here in this criminal courtroom. let's take you in. we do expect the prosecution to call mr. samuel brown to the witness stand. he's that witness we couldn't find earlier today. he should be called right now as the prosecution's first witness of the afternoon. >> mr. brown, would you step up

here and face the clerk please, sir. >> raise your right hand. >> i do. >> you may have a seat right here on the witness stand. >> thank you. >> you may proceed. >> good afternoon, sir. how are you? >> how are you ing? >> please introdu yfoursel to the members of the jury. >> how everybody doing? ladies and gentlemen, my name is el br mr. brown, do youive here in dade county >> yes, ma'a >> are you employed? do you live in an area cald the liberty square housing prt? >> c you run that bacto me? >> absollyo you live in a area called the pork 'nbean or liberty square housing project? let me take you back to 2006

>> y06. , m. >> did livin pork 'n' beans that time? >> i was liv in t time >> ay. on tt day you wisitin yes. rlfriend'sus >> okay. and where were you visiting? wher s live. >>he ass is -- >> ay. d what were you doing that day? >> i hne go upstairs. >>ha t the bedroom? doyin thdroom. weryou taking a nap. >> taking anap. >> was it thenoon after hour >> yeah. ndut- about -bout good2:55, sewhereng into 3:00. >> oy. ou'r l down and you're taking a nap. and you say you're in an upstairs bedrm? rit.

>> w do hear? >> i heard something sound like someire crac. >> andhen you hea the fire crackers, wha do y do? >> immedia jumped up and looked out thewiow. >> w, when you look out the i see atle girl dropo the ground. get up. ando the do. and then as i looked at her, i looked away down t sidewalk. and i s three individuals. >> now, when you say the siwalk, do you mea the waway? no. i'm talking about straight oy. 13thavenue

maapproach the wi >>s,ou may. plea?n youdown me, sure. no problem. >> i'm you showing herehat's mark -rduce evidence a ste's exhibit19. okay. let me ask you. ittle girl's house here, where are you? are in thiapartmen >> ias rig her t in window righere. ok. >> iould see the whole view. okay. hat the window re , looking t? it wa oped ani ing veths look tharuay. just a b sond, m don't sit down.

. brown, can you do me a >> yes. >> can yircle for m the wt me tocle the window i was looking out of? >>yeah. om om, boom, boom, boo nd tndow.a square that rit? could you put an x by it? mark an x. >> boom, boom. >> i see. okay go ahead. have a seat. >> tha you. >> that's a bluquaree on exh19 isrigh that , mr. brown. so y look out windownd yo look down the lkwa seehreedividuals. can you describe the three individuals for me?

>> , yes, mam. hatsng rht t ir r th methin y descre sog 'seang for me? >> i dibe him wring a t-shirt, bluejeans. small wt which small. g aoo view. i pt lng ahim. i kept looking at him. >> let me stop you there. can u ll me wt 's ody in courty. g day?wear >> could you speak a lite louder. >> younted to somebod here in c toy. tell m whae he's wearing today? >> what color isis tie. it the tie is blue ike a blueots i etecor the r reflect he's tihe t. fendan >> rctit. >> mr.n, you ohi wiow and you h right down tt walkwa >>he runway.

>> the runway. and you see thosehree individuals? nd y talkebout a a t's atwa? twa stas forll af. small, low cha. my little hair on his head? like very ort? i'mot talng about nodreds, thing. small- haircut low. >> what kind of srt did he have o what kind of col was it? >> a white trt with some jeans. >> did hvething in his hands, the defendant tt's ttg erthe? >> yes. he was faced towards the se door that he went in with an ak-47 over his shoulder. >>okay. let m sto you there. w, when you lk out the window, has the shooting already stopped? >> yes.

>> you never see anydy shooting in this case, do you? >> i didn'teeo -- nobody shoot, no dr, nothin wiyhe time you look outha ow, thehooting'slready done. >> everything was, like, over with. >> now you said there's three people standing there. can you describe the oer two det?letanding with the >>ah actually, the other guy is the me as, like, thisng m -- which one, i'm goi to say browin itead of say red. th of tm is dark skinguy. the dark g is my complexion. re talking about red skin and you're talking about brown skin. and that's something that not everybody understa >> i cl tm red. red, reds total different from a red person. rec the all -- if they look to me, they look red.

so by meooking down that runway, i didn't forget that face. the defdant asou look at him here today, is he red inned or brown skinned? >> tome, he really brown. but he's still red. >> all right. so how about the guy on the rightf the defendanthada what heookke? >> the g on the right,e loed ted, too, but still the same, red, brown skin, but i still c h red. red-red is the color that's way higher than this. >> okay. does that guy have anything in his hands? >> i think he had a small handgun in his hand. >> did you s anybody elswith any s in tir hands? >> n'am. >> who's the only person that individuals, ak in their

you know, from the best of my knowledge what i was lking at. >> tel me about third person. >> the third person, i reall didn't -- i can't recall it on the third person. my eyes really was focused on the guy in the middle. >>y? tell the jurors why. >> huh? >> tell theors why your es were focused-n why my eyes was fosed tuy in the middle, because from the direction that the little girl was running in and where she dropped at, apparently the ootingouldn't have come from no other way but tt direction. >> okay, mr. brown. i don't want you to speculate or hypothesize. >> no problem. i'm not. this is hypothesize.

to the judge, and the jury, was nobody th was no police officer there, was no paramedics there. >> you were there, right? >> you undstand me? scene was clear. >> okay. let me stop you there. >> the scene, what i seen, the scene was clear. i'm the only one tha was looking out that window, and i kept looking out tt b window down tha runway. >> mr. own, wait r a question. >> thank you. >> okay, mr. brow let me go er with youow ts works. okay? we're re in court. e's some rules. >> go ahead. >> i need you to wait for me to ask my whole qstion. >> no problem. >> and i need y to try t answer just that question. >> no problem. okay,r. brown. so after you see the individual therend you see this defendant withn ak-4 what if anything, do you see him do? >> the startiving each other high five.

then they walk towards the apartment that they was going in. >> okay. let me stop you there. when y saywere they giving each other high five, at the time they gav eh other hh five, did thatee to indicate toou tha they were iends? >> well, from my knowledge, from what i was looking at from out the window, they had to be real close if they re giving each otgh ve. >> okay. so dou see this defdant high fiving sobody? >> i seen him and the other two gentmen. >> and when he high fived them, did you hear him say anything? >> yes. he said rea loud, because there was nobody out there, justm three, let the mother [ muted ] come back. and i knew i heard him say that. >> okay. now, come on down again. again, showing exhibit 19or

the record. okay, mr. brown. can you show the members of the jury --

i'm jamie ploid jami floyd. this is "the best defense." the witness is samuel brown. he's an eyewitness of the shooting of shay jenkins. this is live out of miami. >> listen to my question. you've always told the police in this case that you could identify the defendant if you saw him. right? >> yes, ma'am. >> just a second. no further questions. >> cross-examination? >> good afternoon, mr. brown. >> how you doing? >> i'm doing well. good to see you. >> good to see you. >> thank you. i just have a few questions for

you. >> you can ask me anything you want to ask me. going to tell you no. -- i' let's talk about those three men that you saw on the sidewalk. you were sleeping. >> i was sleeping. >> at your girlfriend's house? >> i sure was. >> her name was peaches? >> that's right. >> you were woken up? >> what's that now? >> you were woken up? >> that's right. >> by what you thought were fire crackers. >> i thought was fire crackers. >> you heard peaches yell? >> i heard somebody yell. >> it was a woman? >> that's right. >> and said they are shooting at that boy. >> that's -- yeah.

>> you sprung up? >> yes. i got up. >> rushed to the window? >> i walked to the window. the bed was right there by the window. i looked out the window. quickly. >> you saw three men? >> that's right. >> and two of them had long guns. correct? >> well, i can't -- i cannot correct you on that that these two men -- i know it was an ak-47 and a handgun. that third individual, i didn't -- i didn't see no handguns. i remember talking to you about that. i don't remember seeing no third man with an ak-47. i'm talking about the individual that i seen that was standing in the middle with the ak-47. >> actually, you saw two long

automatic guns and one guy, dark skinned, with a handgun. he had dreds. >> i don't remember -- i don't remember saying that when you spoke to me about the guy with the dreds. i know he had an afro. >> how about back in august 2006? the month after this incident happened? right? >> mm-hmm. >> you went down to the police station. right? >> right. >> the homicide bureau, right? >> yeah. i called them. >> but you went down there to homicide? >> right. >> you met with the detectives? >> right. >> you actually provided a taped, sworn statement? >> right. >> you were asked a question, page 7, line 7. how many guns did you see all together? and you gave the answer, i seen two long automatic guns and one guy, dark skinned, with a

handgun. he had dreds. >> well, my intentions, if i did say it, my memories been flashed back a little bit. because, i mean, i've been in and out of the hospital. but i know what i seen down that runway. >> i understand. so your memory today over three years better -- or three years later -- >> it's been too many years later. >> would be better than the month after the incident, right? >> it don't make a difference. i'm still sticking with what i seen. >> let's stick to what you said in august 2006, okay? please, let's stick to that. you also told the police in august 2006 that one of the long guns was silver and long. and the other one looked like it was black and long. and the clip looked dark like a dark-like black.

you said that to the police in 2000 -- >> yes. i remember saying about the ak-47 and the small automatic gun. whatever i -- you putting all this -- i don't have nothing to do with that. >> you had a clear and unobstructed view, right? >> i had the best view -- the best view sitting on the -- >> and the whole time that you were watching down the runway or alleyway? >> it don't matter what you call it. you can call it a walkway, sidewalk. i'm calling it a runway because it is straight through. 13th avenue and 65th street. it's still a straight-through runway. which is a sidewalk. >> and you never saw a light-skinned man with dreds

running towards you? >> i never did see none of that. all i seen was the individuals that i seen standing on that runway like a plane taking off. >> those are the individuals with the two long guns, correct? >> the young man with the ak and the other guy that had the handgun and the other guy with the afro, how he looked, the dark-skinned guy, my mind wasn't really focused on -- my mind was focused on the guy with the ak-47 that bullets was coming in the direction where the little girl was playing at. because at the time they was popping off the wall from the window where i was looking out of. and if they wouldn't have had painted that side of the wall now, you would have seen the

pictures on the wall. >> so what i'm hearing from you, mr. brown, is you really weren't focused on the third guy. correct? >> my mind was focused on the gentleman with the ak that was shooting in the direction to whoever he was shooting at. whatever they had going on or whatever their conversation was about or whatever they was doing, they shoot the bullet over where them kids was playing at. like i said, my mind was focused straight on the runway where the guy with the ak-47. that's the bottom line. >> so maybe when you told the police in august 2006 about the two men with the long automatic weapons, maybe that's the third guy you're telling us about today that you don't remember? >> i -- i explained to the officers that the guy that i picked out in the line-up when i

called them, that's the same guy that killed that little girl. because if he wouldn't have killed her, he would have never ran. he would have stayed there and defend his self. that's the bottom line today. >> thank you, mr. brown. >> any redirect? >> mr. brown, and you've always told the police you never saw the shooting itself, right? >> that's what i told them. i never seen the shooting itself. all i seen was the individual with the ak. so common sense. to the jury -- >> let me stop you there. okay? thank you, mr. brown. you're done. >> thank you, mr. brown. you are excused. you can leave. >> you through with me? >> yes, sir. >> okay. your honor, can i say something to you? >> no, no, no. don't say anything. >> i'm not going to say nothing about the case. i just want to say you all have

a nice day and may god bless you all. >> thank you, mr. brown. now if every witness would just end with such a positive note. we're going to make a very quick break and we'll be right back with more live out of miami.

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damon darling says he acted in self-defense when he opened fire in a housing project. but is he responsible for the death of a child caught in the cross fire? back in 90 seconds. it's how we save you money at nationwide insurance. my name is sandy garza and i am on your side. only nationwide gives you an on your side review. you tell us about your life and your insurance. sometimes you don't have enough coverage. or you may even have too much. we'll let you know. we listen and build you a custom policy of just the coverage you need at the right price for you. (announcer) only a nationwide insurance agent can give you an on your side review. call this number to save up to $523. we take a look at the policy and look to see if there's any gaps in coverage. you know, in addition, we talk about discounts that are available. and we try to save you money. i mean we really do. (anncr:) call this number now or call a local agent.

switch today and save up to $523. listening and saving you money is how... ♪ nationwide is on your side ♪ i'm jamie ploid. this is "the best defense." we take you back live to miami now where the prosecution has called its next witness of the afternoon. he's just taken the witness stand. this is detective orlando

garcia. he's on direct examination. >> -- transported to the station. if there's other information where we need to locate somebody or contact somebody, try to get that done. and at the same time, be advising my superiors of what's going on. >> do you work on weekends? >> it depends. >> but this particular weekend when you got the call, you were not working? >> no. i was off. >> so you mentioned it took about, i guess, an hour and 45 minutes for you to get out there? >> yes. >> what's the protocol when a call goes out like this? is there a homicide squad on duty that responds until the homicide gets there? >> yes. there's a homicide team 24 hours a day. we work on a rotation basis. it just so happened that i was up on rotation. so the homicide team that was working that afternoon, they responded out there, held the scene for me until me and my partner arrived. >> so you arrived there at 4:45. the family's there. is the victim still on the scene? >> yes. when i arrived, the victim was

still there on the scene. a in basically the doorway of her home. >> was the body covered up? >> i don't believe so. not when i arrived. >> did you take care of covering up the body? >> yes. it eventually was covered. >> are part of your responsibilities to secure the body and release it to the medical examiner? >> yes. >> was that done by you? >> yes. >> what else did you do while out there? >> while i was gathering information, speaking to my partners, we arranged -- it's called canvass. it's to find out if there are people that have information. and also walk the crime scene, trying to see where evidence may be. or where it may not be. mark it so that when our crime scene investigators come, we can pretty much tell them we've got this here, this here, direct to them what we're looking for. can i get some water?

>> let's talk about the crime scene in this -- in this case. when you arrived, what areas were -- did the crime scene tape encompass, if you remember? >> it was -- this is the initial scene here. this was roped off. and it was also roped off north and south of there. so it's a basic one, two, three, four, almost five building areas. >> is there a protocol for establishing a crime scene? >> where the initial incident takes place, that's what we want to call the sexual crime scene. from there we expand out to see just how far the actual crime scene may be. >> so just because you roped off a piece of this doesn't mean that you didn't continue looking on the outskirts for other evidence? >> correct. we start here and we expand all the way down looking for whatever we may find. >> showing you now exhibit 19,

can you show the members of the jury -- see if you can -- there's a lot of writing on it. >> okay. i got it. >> okay. can you tell the members of the jury where you walked around looking for evidence and who you did that with? >> i started here in this area here, which is where the victim was. >> so you were staying in the area in front of the victim's house, and i guess we'll call it the area where billy jean dudley lives? >> correct. this is where i started. >> okay. >> when i get there, i get the information. the crime scene actually initially encompassed this area here. the defendant was here with his firearm. and the shooting occurred this way and the victim's struck here. so now i know i had to look at this area for whatever weapons or casings, anything i may find. so i start here. but then it encompasses all the way here.

because i want to make sure that if there's something, i find it. >> okay. now, i see you pointing. did your search expand all the way to what would be 67th street? >> yes. which it's hard to see in this photograph. >> can you -- well, can you show the members of the jury where it would be? maybe at the top of the photograph, if you can see it? it's not three-dimensional, but -- >> no. it would be right about here. >> take a look at this street. do you think that's 67th going down, or are you able to tell? >> no, it -- it would be -- yeah. it could be that one. at an angle it's hard to tell. it could be. >> so did you personally walk from the area where the victim's house is to where the area where the supposed shooter was, and walk all the way down the street? and what street is this? >> this is 13th avenue all the way to 57th street. >> okay.

all right. that all important diagram of the location of this shootout and the poor little girl who loses her life. let me bring my guests into the conversation one last time. so two great criminal defense attorneys, what is the best defense for this defendant? and is self-defense that defense? john, first to you. >> i think so. i think it's his only shot. i really do. no pun intended. really what you're dealing with here is if he's going to take the position he was defending himself from being shot and using that law i talked about earlier in florida, that's his only chance. >> stand your ground is the law, right? >> correct. >> it's not the defense available in all jurisdictions, but it is available to him in florida. i agree with you, john lincoln. but maybe jennifer bonn jean has something creative up her sleeve. >> self-defense is it. he put himself at the scene. defense got all the better with that last witness, mr. brown.

>> a colorful fellow. >> not only a colorful fellow, but he did great job of corroborating some of the defense. it wasn't really an issue whether the defendant was there. that's why he's asserting self-defense. i don't see why the prosecution even put that guy on. >> yeah. i think he helped the self-defense defense indeed. he was as much a defense witness as a prosecution witness. and with that, "the best defense" will rest for the day with all of us in agreement. a big thank you to jennifer bonn jean and john lincoln for being with me today. always a treat to have you. tomorrow "the best defense" will continue. more live coverage of florida versus damon darling. i'm jami floyd. thank you so much for watching, and have a great afternoon.