puzzlewit. we will see you permit -- premium members on the factor post-game show, coming up shortly. remember, the spin stops here. [captioning made possible by fox news channel] captioned by the national captioning institute --www.ncicap.org-- sean: does the h1n1 flu scare the heck out of you like it does to me? we are gathering the best information available to presented to you, you can decide for yourself. sean: tonight, the capitalist system right here. my showdown with filmmaker michael moore. you are an unapologetic socialist. is a second stimulus on its way? the white house doctor photo op

exposed. all of that plus dana perino and the new york giants. >> we will reveal what happens when the stock market tanks. >> a global meltdown. >> the government fails. >> by spending just a few million dollars to purchase convert -- congress, wall street was given billions. >> there has got to be a rebellion between the people that have nothing in the people who have it all. >> everything was being handled by goldman sachs. this was like an intelligence operation. >> this is straight up capitalism. sean: that is one of the scenes from michael moore's new movie, open " capitalism: a love story." believe it or not the writer and

producer of that movie, director, michael moore is here. how long has it been? >> it has been a while. the last -- sean: the last time that i interviewed you we had a bet. i want. >> this was on your radio show, right? in 2002. i happened to be on your show when matt drudge texted you. you were sitting there, you said you were getting a message. i said geez, this is happening on your show, this special moment. sean: you have fond memories of me in your past. >> the book had gone from nothing to number one, thank you for that, by the way. sean: you have just ruined my credibility. [laughter] >> then we got talking and i

said that george w. bush, he will either have to resign or he will be impeached by the end of his next term. you said no way. i took a bat. -- bet. if i won the bet you would have to wear a button that said "i love hillary." [laughter] if you won i would have to stand in front of the white house holding a sign that said sean hannity was right. [laughter] sean: you did not exactly do it at the white house. >> i did it on your set here. it was hard enough to walk through the upper west side of manhattan holding that signed. sean: you were not. >> people kept stopping me. i had to walk here. i said that i lost a bet. sean: i appreciate it.

by the end of tonight's show we will have another bad. these are serious issues that you raise in your film. by the way, i had a disguise, i went in late, i did not want people to sneak in. >> so, you purchased a ticket for "zombieland" and snuck in? [laughter] sean: something like that. i want a refund. you are a talented moviemaker with a left-wing point of view and you do not apologize. i will give you credit for that. you are dead unapologetic socialist, hey? >> christian. sean: so an ally. >> are you catholic? sean: i did. >> did you go to mass this past sunday? what was the sermon about? sean: it was about michael

moore. >> you did not go. what was the gospel about? sean: i do not remember. >> i hate to sai got there abous i got your movie. >> jesus was very clear about the rich man. sean: the eye of the needle. >> the first would be last and the last would be first. sean: you are rich, so you'll be last. >> if i do not do well with my blessings on this earth. we will be judge, you agree, by how we treat the least among us? >> -- sean: i totally agree. this gets to the heart of my debate with you tonight. i want to set this up. "fortune"magazine -- i do not know your net worth. >> i have a house in michigan

and an apartment in new york. those are worth a lot of money. sean: you are a multimillionaire. i know that you have chartered one of the most expensive jets in the skies. >> i have never paid a dime for a jet. sean: you have never been in a private jet? >> the studio, as you know, when they send you out they will send you around. sean: somebody told me that that was michael moore's jet. on a tarmac. you are a multimillionaire. >> i am not. i have done well, obviously. three of the top six documentaries of all time. sean: absolutely. >> made by me. sean: $300 million. >> not for me, that is the studio. sean: $21 million from disney.

>> let's establish that i do well. sean: fair enough. i do not have a problem. you want to trash capitalism in this movie. you ring up religious " and religious figures in the movie -- i didn't go to see it. you show a -- i did go to see it. you show families that i have compassion for. here is my point, if you believe all of this and you make all of this money, if you cashed out you would be worth millions. >you do not want to admit it. >> i just did. but you are so stuck on this. sean: my point is that the capitalist system allowed you to get here. >> you think that the capitalist

system opened the door for me and allow me to do this? >> he went to cuba. do you think that fidel castro would allow you to make millions of dollars trashing his system? >> good question. sean: you would be killed. >> i do not think so. you are still following that line? >sean: i have a friend of mine whose family was killed when he came to power. >> what about the murder done in our name in the last decade. you are getting diverted. you do not want to talk about this, that is the real issue. what has been done in iraq and afghanistan and other places. sean: did you read the 9/11 commission report? >> of course i did. sean: it says that they were at war with us. >> who are they?

sean: terrorists. >> those are criminal fugs. sean: they are warriors. >> they are not warriors. you have seen the videos of them climbing the monkey bars. you are making them equal to us. only a wuss would be afraid of that. these are criminals committed mass murder of 3000 people. they should have been brought to justice by now. why have they not? sean: it is not as simple as you sitting here in the studio talking about it. >> why have we taken eight years -- sean: i took the 9/11 commission report, i took it to mean that we are in a war. michael, listen, pol pot, the killing fields, soviet gulags -- i wrote a whole book, "deliver

us from evil." you can have human atrocity in our lifetime. >> horrible things have happened. your point is that of sean: obviously, if we do not treat it -- >> in this great free country, why do we invade another country that did nothing to us? sean: that is a simplistic analysis. >> there were no match -- weapons of mass destruction. sean: none that we saw. >> come on, you are not into a conspiracy theories, are you? sean: bill clinton got a lot wrong. the soviets got it wrong. >> as you know, most of those countries were trying to warn us. even our own intelligence people were telling us that we were going down the wrong road. they were told to say this and that.

this was all going to come out. sean: when? >> eventually, i hope. i hope that there will be trials. sean: you really want to go down that road? >> are you kidding? if not we will be invading another country in the future. we need to take care of the people that cause of this horrible crime. sean: that is the difference between you and me. we have to defeat the people that fought for -- plot. >> we did not treat them like they were some nation. we just caught those bastards. sean: that is my point. emboldened them so that they could come back. they hijacked those airplanes. >> we are the united states of america, man. come on. sean: you want to gut our military? >> you are afraid of a few

hundred guys on monkey bars? sean: millions. >> millions bevelacqua sean: i believe that there are millions that will kill loss for the virgins -- >> millions? sean: i believe that there are millions that will kill us for virgins in heaven. you are a religious fanatic. >> me? i believe that jesus said you should love your neighbor as yourself. and you should love your enemy. do you love your enemy? sean: i do. >> you love me? sean: i do. >> you love al qaeda? >> i love them in that i want to kill them. >> that is not the love that jesus talked about. [laughter] sean: he had the ability to change people's hearts. i wish i had those powers.

>> you are on television every night. sean: i have that power? >> you do. sean: coming up, interview with michael moore continues, including his thoughts on ronald reagan. dana perino, coming up.

sean: welcome back. here is more of my exclusive interview with filmmaker michael moore. if you have all of these millions -- you are an influential hollywood guy. seriously. >> are you serious? you think that in an influential hollywood guy? sean: yes. >> you really believe that? sean: i never put together movies like yours. >> this is just another conspiracy theory. [laughter] sean: if you got $300 million in ticket sales -- i am not saying it is yours. >> so, they like me because i make the money. sean: right. here is my question. if you believe this lecture that

you give me on the legend and you have all of this money, other rich influential friends, and you do not like capitalism -- when i saw those people in your movie being affected -- ejected, i did not like it either. why not take your money to help people in those situations? >> for my very first movie i made it a part of the deal that the people evicted from that film, "roger and me," that warner brothers would rent their homes for two years, give them a chance to get on their feet. i have retained an attorney for the man in this current movie to get the home back for him. that is just me, one person doing this. off as people are watching this you realize that there's a foreclosure filing in this country every 7.5 seconds?

sean: we are in a bad decision. >> people are losing their homes. we are in a bad situation. sean: obama is making it worse. by the way, you complain about the t.a.r.p. fund in your movie? he voted for it. do you have an altar in your house worshiping obama? >> [laughter] that would be against the second commandment, would it not? what alter do you have? a dollar bill? reagan? sean: i do like reagan. >> how many candles do you like every night to ronald reagan? sean: if someone purchases a house that they cannot afford. >> [laughter] you think that that is the problem? you think that the greatest collapse we've had since the great depression was caused by a

bunch of poor people with no money? sean: you are being simplistic. >> who do you think caused the collapse? sean: there are three things that you did in the movie that i liked. chris dodd, tim died there, i give you crops for that. -- timothy geithner, i give you props for that. >> you like that? what about the republicans? sean: the subprime mortgage crisis was caused by the community investment act initiated by jimmy carter. they forced financial institutions, by law, for homes that they could not afford. people took the banks up on it. my question to you is that if you buy a home and cannot pay it back, who should pay the bill? >> first of all, if you believe

that that is the cause of this, the carter administration, why did the crash not happen then? sean: he started it, they got a double down on the clinton years. >> what happened during those reagan-bush years? sean: i will explain it to you. >> they got rid of the rules. sean: that is not the problem. >> clinton followed up on it. when bush the second came in, he really smoked them. he made it so that the banks could get away with murder. sean: bush tried to prevent the subprime crisis. let me give you an example. franklin raines, kim johnson, friends of obama. one of them made $90 million in six years. why was not -- why was that not in the movie?

$90 million in six years? i did not hear it. >> they are in there. sean: it was not a main point. >> there are so many bad guys, you know that. you cannot cover them all. sean: more with my interview after a short break. dana perino and jenna lee, straight ahead. great looking skin... it's in the dna. [ female announcer ] new regenerist dna cream with spf 25 doesn't just correct. it helps protect your dna without a $200 department store price tag. olay regenerist.

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sean: b continue with more of my exclusive interview with -- sean: we continue with more of my exclusive interview with filmmaker michael moore. >> use of four law enforcement, right? sean: of course. >> fbi, mostly good guys? sean: as an institution, sure.

>> they said that this mortgage crisis has not been because of the subprime borrowers. it is because of the banks. this is their statistics. 80% of the mortgage fraud has been caused by the banks and lending institutions. sean: everybody got greedy. i will not argue. >> everybody? 80%. they have an entire white-collar fraud unit that bush w. depleted and moved out of white collar crime. during the worst white collar crime wave that was going on -- sean: is there no responsibility at all to the bar work if they purchase a house that they cannot -- borrower if they purchase a house that they cannot afford? >> a lot of them were swindled and lied to. these contracts and payments --

if i brought one in, you could not even find -- sean: do you sign a contract without reading it? >> a lot of us do. sean: i have read every page of my mortgage. >> did you read your contract with fox? sean: i did not care about that. >> you had better read it. if you get sick there is a clause in there. sean: do you read your movie contract out >> yes. sean: my point is -- a movie contract? >> yes. sean: my point is i feel sorry for people that, in some cases perhaps there is some truth, but they have a responsibility. think about this. you put your name on the dotted line of a legal document? >> these people have been exploited.

sean: no responsibility at all? >> that is like asking a woman how short was your skirt after she has been raped. you would not blame the victim for that. why were you walking on that side of town? sean: they should have hired a lawyer. >> a poor person? sean: i have been poor, i could not afford to pay my rent and i would paint apartments. >> there are lots of people living beyond their means. we know who they are. but they have never caused a crash of this proportion before. they cannot. they do not have the assets and the money to be able to cause the crash. it was caused by the people downtown, moving money around, credit default swaps, and that on the insurance, that is why we ended up in this situation.

everyone acknowledges that. sean: not everyone. when the government dictated that the financial institutions and banks had to lower their standards or else they would risk punishing the government, the people that would of we not be getting loans were forced to take them back. >> you think that is a big part of it? sean: a big part of it. >> fbi says 10%. you disagree with law enforcement. there are always people that live beyond their means, but that is a small piece of it. do you know the number one reason that people lose their halls? medical bills. why not get behind universal health care. let me ask you one last question -- are you behind universal health care? sean: i am going into that now. what is the answer without

capitalism? i do not think that capitalism is perfect. i think that we can make improvements, there are unethical people out there, but there are ethical people out there creating goods and services that we desire. >> there are. a lot of people struggle to get by. when you say i am against capitalism, what i am against is what it has become. the big picture of how this economy is being run, how this money is being run -- we do not make things any more, do you realize that? sean: i have made things my whole life. >> we just make money off of money. where is the stuff? where is the incentive for the young kids? >> they are the ones that provide money to the start up companies that make a new drug that will extend our allies. creating the goods and services we desire every day. coming up next, dana perino,

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sean: despite the passage of the $787 billion stimulus package, bloomberg news is reporting that the president is considering additional measures to boost the economy. they include things like an increase in transportation spending and a tax credit for first-time home buyers. is all of this talk about another need for a stimulus a

frank administration -- frank hadmittance by the administration that the first one that did not work? joining me now is dana perino and, in her debut from the fox business network's, jenna lee. >> thank you for having me. sean: is that an admission? >> if you look at the first thing in the plan right now, $300 billion have been spent so far. only about $100 billion have made it into the economy. you have a lot of that stimulus bill yet to get spent. it is hard to know if it was a failure, or if we will go into next year, 2011. >> i do not know if that was by design, but what bothers me

about the news coverage of the money is that the administration said that unemployment would not go above 8%. it is now over 9%. they get away with saying that the stimulus has rescue the economy and the vice president has said that never in his wildest dreams did he think it would work this well. they have got to focus on small businesses. sean: conservatives like myself, we knew it was not a stimulus, it was a government program. one of the big stories that people do not pay attention to, for example, we have got china, russia, japan, france, all having secret meetings to stop the u.s. currency in oil

trading. timothy geithner even said he was open to the idea. to me that is a admission of defeat. >> this weekend he said that a stronger dollar was important, as did other world leaders. had you been watching the fox business network, you would have known. sean: ouch. >> it is something to be concerned about, but you have got to caution people about this news. >> people are worried about the weakness of the dollar. it is because of how much we are spending as a government. sean: all right. i think that that puts america i enclaves fetus position. -- puts america in a defeatist

position. we are very close to some version showing up in the senate, in the house. we have indications of how he will be -- how it will be. a back tax, what will that do to the struggling economy? >> something that we should point out about health care, job creation has release slowed down. -- really slowed down. what concerns me about what we are seeing over health care reform, whatever it is, really, is that anything on the economy is viewed as a stimulus. >> no one in their right mind is going to hire people when they do not know what the landscape is going to be. although she said today that the tax would be to help level the playing field.

most of the conservative democrats probably lost a heartbeat over that comment. sean: looking at this you have a battle in afghanistan over liberal democrats wanting to pullout, others wanting to see it through. then there is a battle amongst health care. lou dobbs want a government option. where will this all end of m of >> when president bush was in office, fair to say -- where will all this end up? >> when president bush was in office, fair to say, we had a lot of these same issues. sean: if we raise taxes at a time when the economy is struggling, when unemployment is higher than obama predicted when he asked everyone to pass the stimulus plan, it has stifled

economic growth. >> you are in a tough spot here. it is a tough balance to maintain. >> they have cannibalize themselves. they want to create jobs, but they want to pass the cap and trade bill. sean: the question is, why would we expect any other result than we ever had up to this point? the stimulus has not worked. the plan has failed. alan greenspan says that unemployment is going to stay above 10%. both of them are critical of the economic policies of late. >> what is actually motivating the private sector to create organic growth in the economy?

we are not seeing an area moving forward because of the uncertainty that was mentioned. also a question of what is happening in the future. not just the administration in the lack of direction, off not so much criticism -- , not so much a criticism but more a time of uncertainty in the market. >> we owe it to the 10% unemployed to get this right this time. we need to generate jobs. give with one hand, take with the other. sean: we appreciate it. when we come back the great american panel, straight ahead.

still tired of morning coming in the middle of the night? rooster crow. still tired the next day too? when you have trouble falling asleep or staying asleep, remember 2-layer ambien cr. the first layer helps you fall asleep quickly. and unlike other sleep aids, a second helps you stay asleep. when taking ambien cr, don't drive or operate machinery. sleepwalking, and eating or driving while not fully awake with memory loss for the event as well as abnormal behaviors such as being more outgoing or aggressive than normal, confusion, agitation and halluciations may occur. don't take it with alcohol as it may increase these behaviors. allergic reactions such as shortness of breath, swelling of your tongue or throat may occur and in rare cases may be fatal. side effects may include next-day drowsiness,

dizziness, and headache. in patients with depression, worsening of depression, including risk of suicide may occur. if you experience any of these behaviors or reactions contact your doctor immediately. wake up ready for your day. ask your healthcare provider for 2-layer ambien cr. sean: tonight on our great american panel, she is the washington editor for "fortune"

magazine. he is the deputy editor of "the wall street journal" editorial- page. he is the founder of the danny clark foundation, danny clark. how is kelly? >> he is coming along. he will be all right. sean: he is a great quarterback. a terrific guy to watch. we just had a long exchange. michael moore came in, we thought we were going to do a 15 minute interview, it did not stop for 45 minutes. i did not have any illusions i could change his mind. you saw the exchange. what is your reaction? >> he has got a long road to hoe if he is going to convince people to throw over capitalism in this country. you know what? he is a huge admirer of barack obama, but he did not do him any favors with this movie.

you are watching the movie, he attacks the democrats in that movie. he hangs timothy geithner, ben bernanke, chris dodd, hanging them out to dry. he left obama off the hook. then he goes into the small thing about socialism and how would never have a chance in this country but they did not anticipate change coming. then he starts talking about how obama was being criticized for being a socialist, but every time they did it his ratings went up in the election. as far as michael more -- michael moore is concerned, he is a socialist. >> he is a socialist that enjoys capitalist perks. sean: he would not admit it. come on, give me a break. admit it. >> he calls capitalism corrupt and evil. he does this with a simplistic

argument that the financial downturn in the crisis was completely the result of the greed of bankers. yes, they had something to do it, so did all the people purchasing houses they could not afford. it encouraged by democratic lawmakers on the hill. encouraged by fannie mae and freddie mac. but that is his thing. sean: let me ask you this. we hear about athletes, and i will not get into your personal business, but how would you feel if you live in a country where you were one of the few people with the talent and ability to get on a football field and play hard, you have a limited number of years to play, what if the government came along with, like they do with financial institutions, saying they would only let you make so much money every year? >> the concept makes no sense to

me. when you are a player in this league, your time is very short perio. 3.4 years is the average. you definitely have to plan ahead of time. sean: we have this white house photo of from yesterday. did you get this? they had all of these doctors invited to the white house. all of the ones that agreed with the president. if they did not agree with him, they were not invited. they handed out white coats to the people that forgot to bring them. the media ran with it. >> it looked like a science- fiction movie. it was like invasion of the body snatchers. sean: it would be like having a sean hannity for president but ton on everyone in the studio. >> it was classic stagecraft, i

did not have problems with that. he was trying to make the point that doctors are unified for the kind of health care reform that he wants. the fact is that there is a lot of split. the american medical association has gone back and forth on the public option. doctors themselves -- sean: they say that he was manipulative. >> welcome to washington. >> it was a mixture of desperate measures. it was necessary for him to do so that much opposition against the reform, people lined up against them, taking so much fire, it was a desperate measure. sean: do you think that people will fall for it? >> i do not know. sean: i should have gone, i could have been the doctor that my mother always wanted me to

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sean: and we continue now with our great american panel. all right, so we have a safe school czar, and i am being attacked by the left because i am saying that that school czar should be fired. he gave advice to a sophomore who came to him and said he was having sex with an adult, and his only advise, and he brags about it, that he hoped he used a condom -- his only advice. jennings is the one who said the

kid was 15, and he spoke about it and spoke about it extensively, and now, we find out that he has praised the man harry hay, who is involved with the man-boy association. >> it is really an association. nambla. i cannot believe it. the guys that are associated with the president, you know, where was the background check early on? >> they probably think they deserve a pass on this, but i think we have concluded as a society that sex between adults and miners, no matter which side of the plate you are hitting from -- sex between adults and minors is not right. there is a majority view. no matter how hard hollywood

tries to defend. sean: there is a political side. the big story leading up to the 2006 election was the story of mark foley and these text messages that he sent to the paiges. but this is a guy who is going to be the country's safe school czar. >> he has also written the foreword to a book that advocates teaching sensuality. elementary school, and i think we all have this debate in this country with this whole "heather has two mommies" episode. talking about homosexuality or heterosexuality to small children, and that takes away the parents'' righ rights to hae

the conversation when they won in their home. sean: i am surprised if there is not more media outrage -- their right to have the conversation when they want to in their home. they seem to be circling the wagons to be protecting this guy, roman polanski. >> this should not happen in the schools. again, it takes away from the parents' rights, and that is the problem. >> we have john holdren and the forced sterilization policy. we have cass sunstein, and he once legal rights and animals. you pointed out something ouabot this process -- he wants legal rights for animals.

sean: you think he can keep this job as a safe school czar? >> i do not think it has been established yet. sean: he admitted he gave the advice and that he was 15, the kid. >> there is a little bit of ambiguity, but it is perfectly legitimate to raise these issues and talk about them in public and let voters determine which party they want to have running this country. you should not be able to hide this stuff. >> this is going to become a distraction for the president, and is the president's decision at the end of the day, and it goes to the vetting process -- and it is the president's decision. van jones. 9/11. if somebody looked at that material and did not think that material and did not think that