one of the best-selling business books ever. >> i do not think i will get there. sean: please tell your dad "hi" from me. let not your heart be troubled. the news continues. shannon: there are five health- care bills, and they need to be combined into one. the latest on that, next. plus, suspension of war. a 17-year-old eagle scout it suspended for having a two-inch eagle knife in his car -- suspension uproar. i am shannon bream informer greta van susteren. the battle is just beginning of health care -- in for greta van susteren .

senate majority leader harry reid met with key democratic leaders today, including max baucus, and the white house chief of staff rahm emanuel, and that meeting was just over the senate bill. all told, there are five health- care bills in the house and senate. how are they all different? how will they be combined eventually? joining me is a guest from cq politics. thanks for coming in tonight. >> thanks for having me. shannon: first of all, let's talk about the cost, a big issue for a lot of folks. how do these measures way in -- weigh in? >> it has come in under a much talked about $900 billion target, so that makes the fiscally conservative more risk averse democrats unwilling to buy more into such an ambitious program. compared to that, the house would extend coverage to a lot more people. it costs more.

it is a bigger-government position, and that raises a flag with some conservatives, although the liberals love it. shannon: different versions have different ways of covering the costs. >> you raise a good point, because throughout this debate, and there has been so much talk about the public plan, and the difference is that they still do not agree on how to pay for this. in the house, they are proposing to levy taxes on the wealthiest americans. in the senate, they are looking at levying fees on high-cost insurance plans, the kinds of things that cost $8,000 in premiums for individuals, more than $20,000 for families, so they have to work this out before they bring it to a vote. shannon: there was the happiness that they were under the $900 million marks from the cbo scored. what are we talking about, the impact, on far as the deficit

goes? >> this is the question. part of this exercise is controlled and long-term health- care spending, whether you agree with them or not. -- part of this exercise is controlling long-term health- care spending. ultimately, it will put the brakes on -- from spending, and one of the way it would do is to control cost increases in medicare and medicaid -- it will put brakes on spending. projecting in years out, it is kind of a leap of faith, and the lawmakers are looking at these projections, and they are sort of holding hands, and some of them will drop. shannon: they come that differently with the number of americans that will still be uninsured. >> basically, all of the bills would mandate that individuals purchase covers, but they will have hardship waivers, because people are hurting these days,

and they propose various ways of letting people off of the hook, so these are mandates with holes in them. their differences between the centrist and more liberal bills. it is a question of how firm the mandates are, how many carve- outs they have, and that will determine in years how many people are not insuredshannon: -- are not insured. shannon: we talked about the employer mandate, the individual mandate, but the public option, and the middle of the fire, both can see how they break down, and the public option survives in some measures but not in others. >> that is right. public option is something be more liberal house once.

-- the more liberal house wants. they feel the government can use its big purchasing power to keep the private plans honest. the senate finance committee, perhaps realizing they do not have the votes for a public plan, has an alternative. they have consumer co-ops, at least in theory, that would go in as a placeholder, but i still think there is room for negotiation. the insurance industry is becoming very aggressive in the run-up to the senate finance, votes, they are emboldening liberals to give the public play into some version of the senate compromise. shannon: there is a lot of information there for us to digest. thank you. earlier, richard shelby went on the record about health care, afghanistan, and more. senator shelby, thank you so much for taking time today to go on the record with us. we appreciate it. >> thank you.

shannon: i want to refer to something you said, first of all, back in june talking about what the president was proposing at that point, saying it could be the best step in destroying the best health-care system, the world has ever known. as this has played out, has that happened? >> i think that is about to happen if we do not stop what is going on, and the democrats have the numbers. it is just a question about reacting to what will come down the road, and we do not know what that will be, as yet, but we do have the best health care in the world, maybe not for everybody, but why destroy the system and start all over and get the governments of involved when there are a lot of other options that we could incrementally builds on the best health care? shannon: the president talked about the idea of bipartisanship, and he has continued to echo that.

others say they have their bills but that they are not getting any traction with the white house. has that been your experience? >> i think that is exactly right. most of them are determined to force a health-care bill on the american people that most americans, according to the polls, do not want, and most people do not need. most people in america, the overwhelming majority are basically satisfied with their health care. shannon: we know from our polling at fox that the majority have health care. to possibly give up a system that is in some part working for them, the senate finance committee version that came at yesterday with the help of republican senator olympia snowe's yesterday, is that enough to justify the change that has been proposed?

-- the senate finance committee version that came out yesterday? >> perhaps cuts in medicare and medicaid if their proposal goes through. this is not going to be a panacea. this is not going to solve our health-care problems. it could exacerbate what we see today. of course, we have not seen the marriage of the senate finance committee bill with the help bill, but from what i know about it now, it will not be good for america. shannon: what is your reaction to the vote by senator olympia snowe yesterday? >> i was disappointed. i would have hoped for her to vote for the rest of the republicans and would not do that, but she has to answer that question yourself. i have known her a long time. we have served in the house -- she has to answer that question herself.

maybe she would change her mind. maybe she would change her mind, and maybe there will be some democrats to change their minds once they see what kind of bill they ultimately put together, because it will be a combination, obviously, of the max baucus bill that came out and what came out of the help committee with the government option and so forth. i would venture to say at this early juncture, it will not be a good bill. shannon: you mentioned the government-run option, public option, and it was not part of the max baucus bill. some say it will come back on the floor. what do you make of that? >> i always thought it would. as soon as they got the bill out of the committee to the floor, where they have more maneuverability and the leadership, if they feel they can ramp the public option down the senate -- down the -- if they can ram the public down the

american people's throats, they will do it. shanonnon: with the decision to send more trips to afghanistan, what about that? >-- more troops to a afghanistan -- to afghanistan, what about that? >> he should listen to general mcchrystal, general gates, and general petraeus. general petraeus was the originator of the surge that helps stabilize, if you can use that word, at least a lot more in iraq -- that helped stabilize. he ought to listen to the commanders. we should not just cut and run out of afghanistan.

we have been there a long time. we have probably been ignoring it too much with a lot of emphasis on iraq. if we leave, it will create the biggest haven for terrorists we have ever seen. shannon: the president was given the nobel peace prize, and there has been a lot of speculation about that was four things in the past or about the future. is there pressure on him in the international community now that was not there before the prize was given to improve >> i think the prize was premature -- before the prize was given to him? >> i think the prize was premature. i do not think he has earned it yet. maybe he will. whoever he or a sheet -- whoever he/she is, they should not worry about international pressure --

whoever he or she is. shannon: coming up, a 17-year- old eagle scout gets suspended for having a pocket knife in his car. plus, rush limbaugh attacked from all sides. new news comedy is no longer a potential buyer for the sports team --

shannon: controversy explodes in upstate new york with a 17-year- old eagleson of being suspended from school for keeping a two- inch pocket knife in his car. matthew whalen was following the eagle scout idea of keeping well-prepared, and he had survival items in his car. >> they asked me if i was carrying a knife, and i said i had no reason to carry one on my person, and when they asked me if i had one, i said i was an eagle scout and that i had one in my car. i was suspended for five days and pending as superintendent hearing to determine whether i would receive additional punishment. shannon: school officials say it

violated a zero-tolerance policy, even though it was locked in the car in the survival kit. joining us is two attorneys. welcome, ladies, to you both. all right, let me ask you. should not schools have an interest in making sure, especially after columbine and 9/11, that there are no weapons on campus, ever? >> well, first of all, this little two-inch knife was not a weapon, and that is not what this board intended to use it for. we talked about a survival knife locked in the car. we are not talking about mass murderers who that go into schools with assault rifles. there is a big difference, -- mass murderers to go into schools with assault rifles. we need the school officials to look at this student, who was an eagle scout. he was admitted to west point. he is a good kid.

applied that and punish that accordingly, but to take him out of school for one month -- apply that and punishable accordingly, but to take him out of school for one month -- and punish him accordingly, but to take him out of school for one month? that is ridiculous. >> first of all, i want to commend this young man. we talk about young people in society and what they're doing wrong and challenges that they have, and here is somebody we can look up to, so i think is fantastic. when i go to the airport, there is a long list of things i cannot bring on an airplane, including my bottled water, and is not because i am a bad person. -- and it is not-hrzh3 because e that person. if i had my child in a school, i would want that school to have zero tolerance. if they err on the side of being

a little bit too safe, on the side that somebody does not have anything even in their car on the property, i would sleep of a little bit better. people making quick decisions on the spot, is this person a threat? is this person not a threat? they are good at what they do, but they are not necessarily trained in law enforcement techniques, so i think it is better for them to get back to what they do. let's just have a rule, and let's interpret that in a broadway so that we protect the children and school personnel -- let's interpret that in a broad way. shannon: they actually called the police on him. >> that is overkill. we have to stop doing this to our students. the police left the school, and they said, "we are going to leave here. you guys take care of it."

shibe brought up a good point. your tsa does not kick you off of an airplane for taking your water bottle through security -- she brought up a good point. children who break the rules should be punished, but we cannot criminalize our students and kick them out of school for an entire month for taking a pocketknife locked in a car. it is stupid. it does not make sense. shannon: i went to give you the last word. >> i do not think anyone is criminalizing him. -- i want to give you the last word. the police said it was not a crime. the extra 15 days, maybe have the family and the community ask, is that necessary? i think that might be where the young man'concerns is, and the young man in question -- where the young man's concern is it.

examining the extra 15 days is something we can do -- i think that might be where the young man's concern is.

>> richard cohen says that obama inspires "a lot of compassion but not a lot of knowledge." >> on some key issues, people feel that we did not elect another george w. bush, john mccain. we elected barack obama and we expect the results quicker. >> the white house counters that the president has moved quickly on torture, on the economy, by

working to outlaw the detention facility at guantanamo bay, on wall street, banking, the auto industry. the left is increasingly impatient on his willingness to fight for a government-financed public auction in the health- care debate. >> i don't think that this is direct enough about what he wants in terms of a public auction. he tells the senate, this is what i want, you deliver. >> he has managed to convince a lot of americans that he is more liberal than he said he was at the same time disappointing his liberals. >> this is par for the course. >> you will never make anyone happy all of time. -- everyone happy all the time. >> irritation could grow if the president boost forces in afghanistan and settles for

public health care reform that lacks a public auction. this might spread to the halls of congress and could be problematic for this white house. shannon: tucker carlson is here to discuss this. we continue to see that he pulls very popular. policy not so much. are you surprised this is coming from the left? >> not really there are always perfectionists in any party. many people thought that reagan was not cutting government swiftly enough. he went on around his business. it is hard in the case of barack obama who has grand plans for all of us, he wants to take control of the energy sector, health care, education. he is not liberal enough?

it is hard to imagine making that case. shannon: you cannot say it with a straight face. >> it is very difficult to say. i think that by and large they are happy with him. he has not had a symbolic sister soldier moment. he has maintained his party line. he might change. right now, a loose cannon from florida it is upset that that signifies nothing. shannon: we had the big gay rights march last weekend and many people said that he has not done enough on this. he made them a lot of promises during the campaign. >> the rights groups raised a lot of money for barack obama and i think that the criticism

is valid. don't ask, don't tell will be hard for him to stop. what is the argument against gay marriage if you are barack obama? why wouldn't they have the right to do this? why is that bad? why is barack obama against gay marriage? this is not a rhetorical ploy on my part, i don't know the answer. these are people that supported him. why is he denying them the right to be married? they have a real beef. shannon: many people are criticizing him from the left, is he listening to them? can he tune this out? >> at a certain point, you can not to be looking up your name every night. in the case of this president, i

am struck by how closely follows coverage of him. shannon: especially this network. >> that's correct. it is amusing. if he is paying attention to cable television, why isn't he reading "the nation," late- night? shannon: is the honeymoon over? >>he came in on a very high approval rating. >> yes, people will not think that you are god forever. m i don't think that this is reason for concern but it is reason for concern at the white house. i don't think that he will be punished by the left for anything. they will fall in line. they follow their leaders without complaining.

they followed bill clinton in the middle of monaco, this tells you how obedient to they are. shannon: thank you very much. breaking news in rush limbaugh's plan to buy the st. louis rams. he is no longer a bidder. jaycee duggard breaking her silence.

shannon: rush limbaugh is out. the radio powerhouse was part of a team to buy the st. louis -- to buy the rams. rush was to be a limited partner.

as such, he would have not been involved in any decisions involving the club. this was a world the enthusiastically embrace. -- a role he enthusiastically embraced. on his radio show before the announcement, rush limbaugh talked about how much he just loved the nfl. >> regardless of what happens here, i am a fan of the national football league. i devote my sundays to it. i travel the stadiums to be part of it. it is fun to be part of it. i will continue to be a fan. i want the sport to be on top of the pedestal and the players to be at the top of the pedestal. the players are the game. shannon: joining us is jim, a writer for the associated press.

thanks for being near. >> thank you. shannon: many of the owners would have had to approve this. do you think he stood a chance of becoming an owner in a limited or in another way? >> well, realistically, no. i think you could see that written between the lines in a statement of the commissioner yesterday. it has been almost one week since rush limbaugh announced he was part of an ownership group, and the nfl does nothing without due diligence and deliberation, and the commissioner said yesterday that, no, he did not have a chance. they moved to take him out of the group. shannon: he knows how to make money and how to draw attention to whatever he is involved with. do you think that would have been a benefit to the st. louis rams? and what about players that would have boycotted him and not

take in the field? do we take the objections seriously? >> well, you know, owners would sign, and players would play alongside state and if they thought it would benefit them. i do not think that was the problem your region would play alongside sata -- players would play alongside satan if they thought it would benefit them. i do not think that was the problem. he was not going to tone down what he did, and i think the owners basically assess what the value was of having him in a publicity cents versus how many distractions it would cause, -- in a publicity centsense. that was pretty much the final pronouncement.

shannon: he certainly would not have been the most controversial or first one. >> absolutely. one woman inherited a team from her husband in cincinnati, and she was the antithesis. she was very tight. she wanted to know about why the ball club had to have scouts since all they had to do is watch games, and then they waited until she stumbled a couple of times. she was found to be in possession of some paraphernalia, and that broke a clause. this is a model that they do not want. these are some very, very risk averse guys. they do a lot of work and as the paladins, and they follow labor law and other issues, and they are very careful about who they

get involved with and how deeply they get involved, and again, it is this free-market deciding that he was more trouble than he is worth. shannon: how does somebody do that? can anyone go after a team if it is up for grabs? >> absolutely. being able to produce a note that you have got the money cut the circle down tremendously. number two, the owners want to make sure that they're going to trust the franchise to someone who is going to run in a good way. they are all independent franchisees. they are carrying two or three bottom dwelling franchises, chronically bad franchises, and they do not want another one. there is one in the bottom third of market revenue.

they want one with expertise to build a franchise back up. shannon: thank you so much for sharing your insights. >> thank you. shannon: here is a look at what is coming up after the show. bill: dick morris haden obama care, and more on the rush limbaugh racial controversy, coming up on "the factor" -- dick morris h. obama care -- hates obama care. shannon: dr. henry kissinger goes on the record with greta, next. plus, a 6-year-old suspended from school for bringing his favorite camping equipment to it's endless shrimp at red lobster.

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>> right now, we are following a number of developments out of pakistan where gunmen have launched a coordinated attacks on three police sent this. one is the building housing the federal investigation agency. this deals with tests. these of the first images with didn't. one gunman was killed before he could event detonated the explosives. -- his id first images coming in. all three attacks happening and we capital. and, and hit a police station. 8 people have died. -- and, has hit a police station. we will continue to keep you posted. earhardt. we now return to "on the record" with shannon bream. thanks for watching the fox news channel.

shannon: russian president vladimir putin is not so subtly dragging his feet. he says talks of sanctions against iran is premature and that there is, quote, no need to frighten the iranians. secretary of state hillary clinton. what now? can in iran be stopped? dr. henry kissinger went on the record with greta van susteren. greta: iran. who is dealing, supplying, helping iran in their nuclear program? , or are they doing this themselves? -- or are they doing this themselves? i am not worried about the civilian one, but there is so much more suspicion that it is more. >> they do not need a civilian program at that level if all they wanted more power, -- were

power. help from various countries on a commercial basis. they probably have health -- help from north korea on the missiles. it is hard to know, but, of course, there is a debate. some in our intelligence community think they have stopped working on morgan's of -- working on warheads. i have no doubt in my mind that

they're working on a weapons program, and i do not know anybody who has studied at issue that has a different opinion on this subject. greta: the intelligence that is being reported, the intelligence gives us some leeway before the have a nuclear weapon -- the intelligence has been so wrong so often that i am curious as to whether you feel the least secure about whether this is years off or whether we need to be aggressive in facing down this issue, whatever that may be. >> i do not think it is that far off. i do not think there'll be an absolutely clear dividing line. i do not think you can say there will be a point where you can say, "now, they are one year away." testing, a scientific reason to

show the world that they have it. i would think from all that i have read most people think that anything from one year to two years is what it can happen. greta: can israel afford to go alone on this issue in terms of taking the hard line with iran? >> if you are a prime minister of israel, and you know you have two or three cities that are very small, and if you know that even in the war was a lebanon, the northern part of israel under fire from conventional weapons -- even in the war with lebanon, you may say to yourself, "i just cannot take that chance."

greta: so in light of that, what should we be doing? what should the united states be doing vis a vis iran? , more sanctions? warthogs proved more what? -- more sanctions? more talks? more what? >> i do not think we should have a military solution without having had a diplomatic phase, because we have to explain to the american public that we tried everything to come up with a solution that saves lives and produces a constructive international order, so i would not put a negotiation and sanctions -- on the other hand, we have to be clear in our mind that if iran becomes a nuclear country, it would change the world.

it would change the world, because when you look at the impact of north korea at the edge of the world -- what it has had with the minister's program, then the iranian program would have a huge impact -- that it has had with its minuscule program. others would have an incentive to develop nuclear weapons. as the protection. saudi arabia. we will live in a totally different environment. we have not yet seen the impact of having 100,000 people killed in one hour.

when new york was attacked, 3000 people were killed. all of the hospitals remained intact. all of the support systems of the city continued to function, but is a city is wiped out, all of the utilities down, all of the hospitals closed, -- if a city is wiped out, all of the utilities down, it is a new world. either somebody wipes out all of these weapons or find some other solution, so, therefore, we have to convey that nuclear weapons in iran are in very grave matter. shannon: up next, the best of the rest. this could be the best video ever. a six-year-old suspended from bringing a campaign utensil to school. we hear from him in his own words. plus, a kidnap victim speaks.

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shannon: you have seen our top stories, but here is the best of the rest. the world is getting their first view of jaycee lee dugard who was abused and held captive by a man and his wife, and she allegedly had two children. she has given the first pictures of result to "people" magazine, and she is happy to be back, and she says there is nothing more important than their love and unconditional support in her family. the power of the national media, a first grader, zachary

christie, was suspended after bringing in utensil, a -- bringing a utensil, a spork, and the sorry set off a firestorm, and now his goal is letting him come back -- and that story set off a firestorm. now, his school is letting him come back. >> i found out that i could go back to school, and i got out of the band. i was, like, yay, i get to go back to school -- i got out of the van. >> what about all this attention? you are on the air "today" show. >> i am really anxious to see what happens when i get back. shannon: finally, you want to

offend women all over the country? pepsi has an app for that. it is called "amp up before you scroeore," and it talks about tips for various types of women, including the cougar. they apologized, sort of, on its twitter page. the app was just a funny way to show how far guys will go to pick up women. coming up, your last call. the nobel peace prize. the nobel peace prize. they are getting hammered all

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shannon: it is time for last call. in a rare move, the nobel prize committee came out swinging about their pick of obama, for the peace prize. they say he has already done enough to win the award. conan o'brien has the rest of the story. >> they say the reason they gave obama the peace prize is for reducing tension around the world. that is what they say, reducing tension, yes, so the runners up this year were red