continues with cheryl casone and "cashin' in." ♪ ♪ >> announcer: today, america's big fat greek bail-out. is california next? >> i have no choice but to stand here today and call for elimination of very important programs. >> announcer: outrage as president obama forks over billions of tax dollars to rescue europe. will bankrupt states now expect washington to throw billions their way? will the bail-out parade ever run out of gas? and a big victory for union, but a huge blow to the economy. the white house with another give-away to big labor, making it easier to unionize, but will the move only make unemployment lines grow even longer? a "cashin' in" expose you can't afford to miss. plus, nothing says memorial day like the beach, barbecues and bankruptcy? as the nation's debt spirals out of control, lawmakers now

rushing to spend another $200 billion in programs that aren't paid for before the summer kicks off. as we keep digging a bigger hole, will washington ever get the message? all that and arizona on ice and teed off. the new immigration law spurring up boycott war between states with millions of dollars and thousands of jobs on the line. the battlelines are being drawn and threats are being made and we're keeping score. your money, you life, your show to stay ahead of the game. "cashin' in" starts right now. >> cheryl: you're going to rescue the guys in greece on the left. then you have to rescue the guys in america on the right. do the e.u. bail-out set the stage for a massive state bail-out here? hello, everybody. i'm cheryl casone. welcome to "cashin' in." our "cashin' in" crew this week -- wayne rogers, jonathan hoenig, jonas max ferris and

tracy byrn tracy byrnes. welcome to everybody. >> we know that the president is supportive of this, he was on the phone with the german chancellor saying you got to get it done. we know $112 billion was originally put in tarp to save the bank -- the states, excuse me. we also know that about 48 of our states have budget deficits, upwards of $44 billion. they're break. it's not california, it's illinois, new york, new jersey, the states are in trouble. >> cheryl: julian, you have the california governor schwarzenegger saying look, these are terrible cuts. the ax is coming down in that state and may come down in other states, won't the federal government have to in some way come in and help out? >> first of all, with aren't to the europeans, there -- with res sfoepect to the europeans -- >> cheryl: it's direct. >> it's indirect. it's good thing like with the mexican bail-out and tarp, these are bridge loans more

than bail-out and stabilizing a situation. with res sfoepect to the state, bush administration bailed states out in three occasions and they continue to support that aid for the state through medicaid and medicare reimbursement. so there isn't a real disagreement along the philosophical divide whether we should help the state. when you are in an economic downturn -- >> i have to say i disagree. >> if you don't provide the money -- if i can finish the point. if you don't provide money you are forced to raise taxes or cut employment and neither is good for economy -- >> julian, you know what? there is a huge anti-bail-out wave, julian exploding all over the country. you can't deny it. it's exploding in places like california. let me finish my point if i could. california is now one of the top ten governments at risk for default. it wasn't goldman sachs that put them in that position. it was their own irresponsible behavior. and, of course, cheryl, we'll see more bail-outs, because

the government is going to say, the president is going to say we're all in it together. if one goes down, we all go down. that's the collectivist notion that has them going out for the better -- >> the biggest reason for the california situation is the recession. >> cheryl: wayne, you can easily compare greece to new jersey or california for tin stance, why not help out the u.s. states if we'll help out greece and other nations there? >> once you commit to bail-out, of course you bail us out first. crazy to think otherwise. why would you bail out somebody else? your reason to bail out the european nation is we're exporting to them and it will help us in the long run in a world economy, but you have to bail out, you have to take care of home first, you know. >> cheryl: well, i mean, but again, it's like back to the notion this is the american tax money and you can say it's wasted if the europe doesn't get their act together. the states in the country are not getting their act

together. four out of 50, tracy mentioned. a great point. >> the notion that it leads to the states -- the states were already bailed out. they got money. it wasn't money they pay back to the government like bank bail-out. it's hand-outs. anybody who bought a municipal bond in the last year knows there will be a government bail-out of the state. you wouldn't buy a bond from california -- california can't print money, just like greece, and didn't get what they offer unless you thought there was a chance the federal government would step in. if we let greece crumble, our dollar will skyrocket. it already is, but if it goes bananas, what will happen -- people in california can't export to other countries -- >> cheryl: greece is not crumbling. they have gotten help and california is about to crumbable if they don't get help. it doesn't make sense. >> the california budget is about $125 billion a year. the first $5 billion of that, the bonds have the first call on that. so you got a long way to go before you stop paying off the bonds. >> let me correct myself,

they have a currency. they wrote the ious things for a while, sort of like a currency. >> cheryl: i like the honesty. like it very much. john, at the end of the day, it's hard for the average american to look at the money going to i.m.f., europe, greece in particular when most people have probably never been to greece. >> sure it is. and look, i don't care if bush calls a bl bubonic plague and flood. i don't care what it is. you can blame bush for everything you want but right now we are in a dilemma and we are bailing out the state. $144 billion has gone to states out of the stimulus fund, $50 billion short this year. another $180 billion is going next year. we are dealing with liquidity, not dealing with the solvency. just like in greece. the massive underfunding of pension pensions, the states are not paying in pension. they are robbing peter to pay paul and the states are absolutely bankrupt. there is not an answer by the

administration or by anybody else dealing with this. they are going to try to bail them out but it's solvency, not liquidity. >> cheryl: tracy, do you agree with john we're daling out the states in some, shape, form already? is that correct? >> absolutely. we have been all along. the only difference between us and greece right now is we're making an attempt to make changes. we are not seeing it out of greece at all. we're not seeing the greeks make any change whatsoever, except for protests in the street like babies. we're trying here. we're robbing from peter to pay paul, and we have no money somewhat whatsoever. based on how obama administration is performing they're only going to write more checks and hand them out. >> where are we making the changes? >> i have to jump in here. jonas is right, as part of the recovery plan, we had aid going to state and local government. if we didn't do that, we would have seen the higher taxes or more unemployment in the state. recession would have gotten worse. proof is in the pudding here. the question is and nobody on

the panel supported obama's economic recovery bl plan, but it's working. we were losing 700,000 a month and now creating 100,000 a month. i'm a huge celtics fan. it can admit lebron james is the best basketball player in the country, even though he hasn't played well the last few games. >> cheryl: we'll give julian the last word. he's going to take it anyway. we'll take a break. when we come back, apparently the washington lawmakers learned nothing from greece. because this might as well be the scene on capitol hill right now. reports that democrats were scrambling to spend $200 billion in two weeks. find out why. and as americans beg for jobs, did the white house just make their job search even hahard? and these guys even happier? (announcer) we're in the energy business.

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>> cheryl: unionizing a company got easier. the white house making a major change to labor rule on how workers' votes are counted. john layfield says it is not a change the job market needs right now. why? >> because of the competitiveness. we're at 9.9% unemployment. real unemployment is over 17%. one out of six americans are unemployed and the democrats are bragging about the economic stimulus package. i'm not sure i'd brag about one out of six people being unemployed. apropos that "robin hood" came out this weekend because

the redistribution of wealth never got better than with this administration. at the end, it was a fairy tale and robin hood was a thief. they want to make things equal but what they want is to unionize the south, so manufacturering in the south is as inefficient as manufacturering in the north. this is a job killer but it's good politics for democrats. >> cheryl: this is a three-person committee that changed the 76-year-old rule quickly to give more power to unions with voting. many businesses are nervous about the rule change and will probably sue. >> similar politiunions exist t power from manage. i don't work at coal mine. but the relative to the profits people do argue could shift money from labor. if you have wages not going anywhere, it will steal the

corporate profits, from the corporate america, and the companies, some of them with billions of dollars shift ing them to wages. that's what it does. >> cheryl: wayne, i tell you what, look at delta right now. there is 20,000 workers that could be unionized under the rule easier. and the airlines are barely surviving. that's an example of a business that may say forget 20,000 jobs, i'll cut it down. >> jonas, in your logic, too, there is an assumption that there is profits there to be share and many companies don't have the profit margins and don't have enough to do that. there is another thing that is going on here. not only in them but the national labor relations board, obama's appointees there are also stirring up problems for companies that are not going to, you know, tow the line as it comes to when the union demands come around. you can only afford to do -- we are talking about it in greece. greece did the same thing and they paid off all the labor so politicians could get elected and look at the

problems. >> cheryl: trace, the labor board made the change, great point on that one, sir. but now it's a simple majority that can pass the union. before if the workers didn' ere show up, they were counted as not present. now they that changed the dynamic. >> look at what is happening in jersey. the teachers union is fighting back and the governor is trying to change things and the teachers unions is saying we're not going to play ball. we're broke in new jersey. everyone needs to come to terms with the fact that the unions are part of the problem for what has brought this country down in the last couple of years. >> cheryl: i don't know if you have been to new jersey, but they nehow to fight in that state where tracy is from, so watch out what you say to her. but three people is worth changing the rule? there are going to be lawsuits. this is not a dead issue. >> remember, this is not card check, which is what a lot of what corporate america objected to. >> cheryl: fairly close.

>> in the last ten years, eight under the bush administration, working people saw the real income decline. what the rule basically says, it's not that radical, majority of voters working in a particular company or industry can decide whether or not they want to unionize. that's a basic legal right people have. workers have a legal right to decide whether or not they want to unionize. it's a basic right by the supreme court. >> don't i have a right to fire you then? a right to unionize? >> that's not the subject. >> that's the point. julian -- >> you can't fire somebody -- >> you want -- >> you're confusing -- >> for being part of a union. >> you want to give the law -- >> the point is -- >> you're confusing people on prurp purpose -- >> let me make my point and then you tell me how i'm confusing everything. employment has to be mutually beneficial, it has to be good for employees and employers. you want the government to

get involved to help the working people, i guess that means union people. not only a big smear on people who work and aren't in unions but gives an unnatural benefit to the tiny favored constituency; ie, labor unions. why is that fair? >> i don't understand a word of what you just said. this says working people have right to vote whether or not they're unonionized and it's a right validated by the supreme court many times. >> to basically take over a company. >> it's not to take over a company, it's whether you want to vote to collectively bargain, so you get the worker right sgls -- >> so delta airlines can fire the union employees. >> this is whether they have the right to do it or not. >> cheryl: at the end of the day, the worry is the job market and unemployment at 9.9%, and the unions are organized and paying out more union workers, you have to lay people off. it's still a reality in this

country. >> they certainly are. but the greatest thing baseball did was fire the umpires and hire scabs. baseball has been good ever since. union strikes killed baseball. the unions get so much power and tleb this is political. they gave them rights they shouldn't have gotten in the g.m. bail-out and why they have rights on healthcare. this is politically driven. >> cheryl: making the point that the president was elected by union states. >> julian, you are, i don't think you're a union member. i am, i belong to two unions. they've been very fair and they've been good for me and very good for the industry. >> the point he is making is -- >> julian? >> i think, i agree with wayne. i imagine you belong to one of the guilds or one of the hollywood unions. i actually agree with you. i think there is a strong case to be made that labor

unions, before we had the labor unions people were working 16 hours a day and no worker safety rules. nothing at all -- we all take for granted today, as basic part of decent functioning capitalistic society. >> cheryl: kumbaya moment for "cashin' in." when we come back, two weeks for memorial day. what is on your mind? a beach get-away. what is on lawmakers' minds? how to spend billions by then. someone here thinks that is good news.

hello, i'm in washington and right now oil company b.p. has another experiment to try to stop the oil rushing into the gulf of mexico, trying to guide a skinny mile-long tube in the leak and for the first time, federal regulators gave okay to spray chemical disbursements under water to break up the oil. senior level official says there has been a handful of arrests in pakistan as result of the times square investigation. the men are believed to have ties to pakistani taliban. among the group, friend of faisal shahzad who was picked up inca ca karachi, may 5. the lone survivor of the survivor of the plane crash in libya arrived home in the netherlands. he was told that his parents and older brother did not survive the crash that killed 103 people. authorities are investigating the cause. more on these and the top stories coming up at the top of the hour. america's news headquarters.

[ laughter ] >> cheryl: a scene from our nation's capititacapitaitocapit? maybe. they're warning that the republicans are going on a $200 billion spending frenzy before leaving for the holiday and not one penny paid for. maybe that's why 83% of americans say it's possible we could go bankrupt. jonathan, you say it's not possible, it's actually probable. >> well, if we keep spending as we have been, cheryl. take a look at pictures if greece, spain and portugal where people are rioting because of the basket case economy of the entitlement states. both parties are to blame here and a lot of spending that the g.o.p. is arguing against they committed eight years ago. spending and entitlement spending will kill the economy as it's killed the european economies and that's why it needs to stop here and now. >> cheryl: these are big ticket items we're talking

about here. talking about extending unemployment, it's at it 99 weeks. it's big ticket stuff to push through in a short amount of time. >> again, as you point out, money for the troops in afghanistan and money for doctors on medicaid/medicare and money for unemployment benefits, all things the republicans historically support and they should support. the idea here is while you want to be able to pay for the programs, everybody would agree with that. when you have economic downturn, you don't do that and you go in the deficit spending because you want to pump money in the economy. the best way to pay for these things to get us back to positive economic -- >> julian -- >> but that will -- >> cheryl: but tracy, the problem is the spending. could we go bankrupt, trace? >> heck, yeah sglvrjsglvrjtyeah. i find that unfair. everybody at home is making changes. i can't pump money i don't have into anything in my

household. i don't have it, i can't pump money in the household. >> it's called a mortgage, tracy. >> even the states are trying to cut back and we're not seeing it at the federal level whatsoever. >> cheryl: a lot of money going out and not lot of money coming in. >> it's true, the history has been written for us. if you continue to do this, you will do it just like jonathan said. the power to spend is the power to govern. as long as you have prof lettic politicians that are passing out money and put off day of reconning, it will come. >> it can't. we have a printing press. tracy doesn't have a printing press but the federal government does. we'll pay back debt with worthless money. the $200 billion is war spending, social security, tax cuts we can't afford, those are what is doing it. >> exactly right. >> cheryl: john, you can support the rest of us, right, john? >> define bankruptcy.

that's you can't pay your bills. we have unfunded liabilities we'll never pay from the social security, medicaid and the state pension plan. we will not pay those period. that is the definition of bankruptcy. this is criminal. they said this is pay as you go, unless it's an emergency. they're deeming everything an emergency. this is criminal. they got to quit spending. >> cheryl: all right. thank you to julian epstein for joining us this week. coming up, they sign. the arizona boycotts are going nowhere!

>> cheryl: time for what do i need to know for next week. tracy? >> two weeks ago, the boycotts won't work in arizona, and they're not working. we saw it in worstster, massachusetts -- worcester, massachusetts. not working. >> cheryl: wayne? >> the market is in disconnect from the real economy. ford motor reported great earnings and they will continue to do so. i own it. i bought it at to and 11 and way above that. >> cheryl: john? >> the celtics, lakers, betty white and wayne rogers, buy a classic stock with a great dividend and pfizer is one of the best. >> cheryl: all right. jonas? >> take two interactive rock star game and drop red dead resumption and it will be a super big hit. get it now w while the getting is good. >> cheryl: jonathan? >> safety deposit box key. one factor that is fueling goal to all-time highs is this collectivist notion that we're all in it together. it's prompting people to hide their wealth and pushing gold to higher