jerry lininger, mark seeing el. jenna: thank you for joining us, everybody. megyn: hey everyone, i'm megyn kelly, this is a fox news alert. we are likely ten minutes from the next miner emergeing from this amazing rescue effort in chile, 17 of the 33 miners, finally seeing the light of day after more than two months trapped in deep underground. welcome to "america live", the scene as it looks right now in copiapo, cheers, tears, and chants of "chili", breaking out as each man one by one is pulled to the surface. remember these men have been stuck a half mile underground since august 5th, when the mine first collapsed, for weeks, no one above ground even knew when they were alive and when rescuers finally made contact, 17 days into the ordeal, the miners were told it might be christmas

before they would be saved. remember, no one knew whether they were alive until they sent up a note saying that all 33 of them had survived. christmas came early, folks. a look underground right now, where some of the most talked about miners are still awaiting rescue. we believe the -- we believe the one who got engaged to his girlfriend of 25 years by video conference from the mine is being pulled up shortly, while another who has experience explain to go do. his wife discovered he has a mistress. live to the scene, you're not going to miss any of this. we'll bring you each and every rescue, as each man is pulled to the ground when they are reunited with their families. it is worth celebrating and we'll do so, here. in the meantime, there's this, we are awaiting an announcement that may kill hopes of a recovery in the housing market any time soon forty-nine state attorneys general are set to launch on investigation now into

allegations of possible foreclosure fraud at the hands of the nation's biggest lenders. it is a dramatic situation, but some economists say could -- that some economists say could have a serious economy on the larger recovery and delay the recovery in the housing market by a few years. stu varney of fox business network and anchor of varney & company is here to explain that. the attorneys general are doing what and what does it mean for the housing market? >> megyn, there are two crises in this country, jobs and housing, and these attorneys general are about to throw a big rock into the housing pool with very negative ripples, spreading out from there. they're going to start a probe, virtually in all states across the country, of the foreclosure process. that will take homes off the market, it slows down dramatically the buying and selling of homes, that puts on hold a big chunk of the nation's economic activity, the ripples keep on spreading out, and you've got an overall slowdown in

the general economy, affecting everybody, and, of course, employment. so at the top level, megyn, what you've got here is serious damage, potential damage, to the economy, and at the bottom level, on the ground floor, this is a human tragedy that is unfolding one person at a time. megyn: and if you are looking for someone to blame, stu, you tell me who gets the blame. because the articles say that it is the banks who foreclosed inappropriately, improperly, prematurely, without the right paperwork, without crossing the testimonies and dotting the is on people in their homes. no question many deserved it but some may not have and the banks include bank of america, j.p. morgan chase, allied financial, and others, so are they the villians here? >> it's a little too easy to point the finger and blame directly at the banks. yes, in many cases the paperwork is faulty, and on a legalistic basis, you could say that those are not valid foreclosure processes. fair enough.

but everybody who's involved in this, all of the homes which are being foreclosed on, the homeowner has not paid his or her bills. it is the process, the legalistic process, of foreclosure that may be at fault. now the attorneys general are launching an investigation in 49 states. that puts on hold the entire foreclosure process. megyn, what you've got is a defacto foreclosure freeze spreading across the country. megyn: why are these top economists saying that this is going to -- they were just saying that maybe the housing market would show signs of recovery late next year. it's still the time to buy, but late next year, and now they're saying forget that, because of this, we're talking maybe three years before the market recovers. why? >> i wouldn't put that time frame on it. but it extends the housing crisis by at least many months, and probably a year. why? because of all the homes which are sold in america

today, roughly between a quarter and a third, are foreclosed homes. if those homes cannot be sold because there's a problem with the paperwork on the foreclosure, you're taking all of those homes off the market, you are reducing the level of activity, buying and selling activity in housing, you are, therefore, putting a depressant on the entire market, and what happens when those homes eventually come on to the market? em masse? you depress prices more. megyn: we'll see. they say potentially there could be criminal charges filed if these attorneys -- as these attorneys general investigate exactly what they did. >> it's not going to solve the situation. >> once you get the lawyers involved, it never solves it. there may be justice eventually but solutions, certainly economic ones -- anyway, thank you. >> thank you. megyn: analysis by the "wall street journal" is raising new questions about the economic recovery. writer john lott today

suggesting this is the worst recovery on record. we're talking ever. the unemployment rate has hovered above 9 percent for more than a year now, and if you take the number of people who have given up on looking for work or who can only work part-time, that unemployment rate is over a stunning 17 percent. coming up, we'll take a closer look at jobs and what is being done in washington to create them, or should washington be doing anything? a serious debate on one of the real issues facing many, many americans, just ahead. >> one of the biggest names in fundraising is about to go to bat for democratic candidates. a live look here in milwaukee, wisconsin, where just 40 minutes from now, first lady michelle obama headlines a fund-raiser for senate russ feingold. right now the democratic incumbent is fighting for his political life in a race many thought would be a slam dunk for him. not so much. now he is expected right

now, expected, to lose. this campaign season, mrs. obama enjoying high -- enjoys higher approval ratings than her husband. steve brown is following the action in milwaukee. >> reporter: that's not terribly unusual that the first lady is more popular and less controversial, because generally speaking, first ladyies tackle far less controversial topics, mrs. obama tackling things like nutrition, obesity in teens in america, things that people are universally for working on. so her foray today begins an 8-state swing to try and assist some folks that could use help and certainly russ feingold is in that category. today is a fund-raiser, 600 people, we're told the tickets range from $60 to $500, so a substantial amount of money to reign in on his propers and -- proffers and he is in a tough race. there are polls out there, and a good number of them

that, suggest that perhaps ron johnson is out in front by a smidge. later on today, the first lady heads off to illinois to go help raise money for alexi giannnoulis, where essentially the -- running for essentially the first lady's husband's old job. he is running guess kirk, a republican, and the race is close and she is the first lady, we are told, is going to be steering away from controversial topics and trying to take on the role as mom in chief as she goes to campaign for these folks in a much lighter way than her husband has been on the campaign trail so far this year. megyn: steve brown, thank you. some breaking political news now, brand new numbers just out on the president's approval rating, that number hitting an all-time low from the polls company. only 43 percent saying they approve of the job president obama is doing.

the low point for the fox news polling to date is 42 percent. the poll comes as the president tries to rally the democratic troops three weeks in advance of the mid terms, rolling out a new message just ahead of that crucial vote. >> the question is going to be whether once again hope overcomes fear, because what essentially the other side has decided is that they're going to try to ride fear and anxiety all the way to the ballot box on november 2nd. megyn: monica crowley is talk show radio host and fox news contributor. that's been the message from the president, that the republicans are hoping to ride fear all the way to the ballot box. he said the question is whether hope overcomes fear. does that sum it up? >> it's not exactly a new message, megyn, this is the message of 2008. what the democrats are trying to do is try to recapture the magic of 2008. so they keep saying hope and

change. look, the president has been in office for almost two years now, democrats have controlled congress for going on nearly four years now. this is their economy. they own it. the message that they've been trying to use over the last couple of months, that we don't want to go back to the republican way of doing things, we don't want to go backwards, we want to go forwards, well, what democratic research has shown is that those messages are gaining republican votes. they are backfiring on them, blaming bush, blaming the republicans. so in a -- in grasping at straws and in total desperation they're trying to go back to what worked last time and you know how old generals arefying the last war? in this case the democratic party is going back to the last campaign and trying to resurrect themes that worked for them then. megyn: is it different when you're the incumbent rather than the challenger? he was then senator obama, promising to run on hope and change. it's not quite the same as when you were the man in the top job, trying to blame somebody else.

but i just want to give people the perspective, because the hope and change thing, it's not just something that he's been tarred with by people who now say where is it. just the flavor of what president obama promised, back in 2008, when he was running -- >> absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick. and good jobs for the jobless. this was the moment when the rise and our planets began to heal, this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last best hope on earth. megyn: so the question is, according to this, people just don't believe he lived up to it. >> no, exactly. there is a huge difference between running as an outsider when you are a challenger and you don't have a record to defend, but

this man is now an incumbent, he's been an incumbent for almost two years now and there is no record to defend. what is he going to do, point to an economic record of success? he can't do that megyn. he's got 10 percent unemployment or close to it now, so going on almost two years? there's nothing economically that he can defend here. megyn: what about this -- >> he's pulling a reaganism, saying the other side is about fear, i'm about lifting this country up and looking forward to our best days and the hope and the change, but the thing is, if you look at the numbers monica, there is fear out there, there is anxiety out there, and we just looked at the latest "rasmussen poll" and it shows that 61 percent of people believe right now that we are on the wrong track in this country, just 32 percent believe we're on the right track, and when you get specific about the economy, the numbers get even worse. people are genuinely worried about their future. look at this. look at this. look at this. 70 percent are nervous about the economy. and that's really what drives our lives, our jobs and our homes.

>> absolutely. there are two big element toss this, megyn. the first is economic anxiety as you pointed out, 10 percent unemployment for a sustained period of time doesn't seem to be getting better, it seems to be getting worse, the president and democratic party's polices seem to be exacerbating the problem, not improving it, people feel that, they are living this economy on the ground, every single day. the second part of this, i think, is real fear, and we mentioned fear, but a real fear that the very character of america is changing, megyn, that what the democrats have done over the last two years in pushing obamacare, which the majority of american people do not want, push ago stimulus package that put us another trillion dollars in the hole, that did nothing to improve the jobless situation or the economic situation in america, cap and trade, which was passed, all of the obama agenda items that were supported by the huge majority of democrats in the congress seem to be changing the very complexion of america, the very nature of what america is all about, in terms of

self reliance, individual freedom, and limited government. so on top of the very immediate and urgent economic issues that are really worrying americans about their jobs, about their homes, and you just talked to stu varney about the foreclosure crisis, on top of all of that, you have a deeper underriding fear and anxiety that the america we grew up in, the america that we love, the america of the founding fathers, is fundamentally changed. megyn: that's interesting, because he may be right, that the republicans are running on fear, but is that legitimate, because they're tapping into our realo motion e-- real emotion the country is feeling? we'll see in three weeks. while president obama typically has higher approval ratings overseas, he is the target of rangery protests in israel this week. take a look. >> >> demonstrators throwing shoes and eggs at a picture of the u.s. president, many

calling out his polices as undemocratic, antisemitic and biased in favor of the arabs. fox news alert, after a series of flawless recent cues of the miners in chile -- well, not all of them are out yet, we're waiting for number 18, things have come to a stop for the moment. we're getting word that they are doing work on the rescue capsule. adam housely has been doing yoman work -- yoeman work on the scene. what's happening there, adam? >> reporter: we're told by the mining ministry, speaking to the media and the country, saying this is routine. we actually saw this a couple of times overnight as well, where they pull the capsule out and they actually do some -- basically they oil the wheels. it's that simple. they kind of make sure everything is okay because any quarter inch change in the actual capsule itself could cause a problem. he says there's no problem whatsoever, it's normal, routine, it should be ready

to go any time, and i clans over to our guy, and -- now it's going down, i'm told it's been put back into place, going down as we speak. the next miner up is the 18th miner, esteban rojas, who didn't actually have to trade that day, he traded days so he could go to a funeral of his uncle. he wasn't supposed to northbound the mine that day. he hopefully will be coming out within the next 30 minutes or so. they've picked up the pace here, they're getting two miners out per hour, we're told they expect the operation to go smoothly like this, to end overnight. he also said that the video cable, we've been able to see that video from the capsule itself, has been served on accident, he says it's not a big deal, does not in any way hinder this operation, they still have the bluetooth audio to keep in touch with the miners as they make that 14-16 minute on average trip to the surface. one more note, every time these miners step out and you see the families give

the hugs and embraces and the celebration, you hear the chants, the cheers. for a while it was -- -- this is basically spelling out chile, now they're saying -- >> ♪ >> ♪ the miners of chile, and again, it's become a national then only -- phenomenon here, these men are heroes and being treated as if they are part of the national soccer team, which is some of the reaction you're seeing around the country as they come out in some of the phradzas and squares across chile, and for that matter, around the globe, megyn. megyn: it's been incredible to witness, sitting at the desk in new york. i can't imagine what it's been like on scene and doing fantastic work. thank you very much, we're going to be back to you many times throughout the next two hours as the news breaks and we await the rescue of the 18th of the 33 trapped miners. new questions this afternoon about jerry brown's campaign for governor out in california and whether he is in trouble for his answer to this question in a debate. watch this: >> somebody in your campaign referred to miss whitman as

a whore. we've heard no outrage from you about the use of that kind of language, which to many women is the same as calling an african-american the n word. have you been in charge of the investigation of your campaign to find tout who was responsible for using that phrase? megyn: oh, and wait until you see what happened after that. jerry brown, gave an answer that made the crowd jump into the debate. audible responses after what he said. we'll show it all to you. and stunning new developments in the alleged shooting of an american man on a border lake. see what investigators and his family are saying now after one of the lead detectives on this case was found de capitated on the mexican side of the border. it's sad. it's so sad that they have to be fearful of people, you know, coming after them for searching for somebody, you know. it's sad that they have to fear the cartel.

megyn: welcome back, folks. all eyes are now on chile where rescue teams are working to haul up the last of the 33 miners. seventeen have been taken up so far, we are awaiting the rescue of the 18th, these men have spent 69 days trapped 2000 feet beneath the surface of the earth. secretary of defense gates disagreeing with the federal judge who has ordered the pentagon to end its ban on gays serving openly in the military, saying that decision should be made by congress and only after the defense department finishes its own internal policy review. one of the strongest earthquakes ever recorded in oklahoma, rattling the central portion of the state. fortunately it appears to have caused only minor damage and injuries.

one of israel's greatest enemies, making an historic visit to the middle east. thousands of cheering lebanese welcomed iranian president mahmoud ahmadinejad like he was a rock star. frightening evidence of the growing influence of iran, just beyond israel's northern border. look at this, look at that face. rita ninan is streaming live from beirut. first of all, where are you, what's happening behind you and why is iran's president being welcomed like a rock star in lebanon? >> >> reporter: the support here is tremendous and the reason is we're coming from the heartland of where hezbollah -- it's in the southern suburb, ahmadinejad has been the only one to support lebanon after the war in 2006 with israel. just moments ago, there was a big question tonight, whether or not hezbollah

lead would appear live, and the last time he did that was four years ago, after the war. it turned out he appeared only by video link, because he was afraid of a possible assassination by the israelis. so he remains in hiding, and of course, he delivered a speech, and he took a moment to take a jab at the israelis, saying the country needs to be dismantled, and ahmadinejad is speaking the truth when he goes after israel. he knows what the fault lines are in lebanon, he knows that muslims and christians are not happy with the way he's kind of dividing the country and bringing the iranian influence to the more secular countries and he went to great lengths to support them and said what's good for arabs is good for the iranians as well. megyn: rita ninan, thank you very much. it's tough to hear her with that in the background but we did our best to get that

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megyn: fox news alert, we are just about 20 minutes away now or less from the next expected rescue in chile. the miner about to be pulled out is the one who proposed to his girlfriend via veo conference while he was underground. his name is esteban rojas. in one of the video conferences he had he decided to pop the question to his girlfriend after 25 years of a relationship. it took this to actually make him realize what he had i guess. we'll see their reunion we hope momentarily. for 69 days, 69 days, 33 miners were trapped half a mile underground. it is the longest everyone has ever been trapped and survived in a mine like this. a missile-like capsule bringing all the men to the surface back into the arms of the ones they

lovement it's been incredible, the children and the wives as they wait, the hugging, one man dropping to his knees and praying to got in -- god in thanks. they can breathe fresh air for the first time in over two months. try to imagine it. we have a fox crew on the ground. we'll bring you all the breaking developments as they happen. the rescues really are worth watching. on a less happy note a skating new "wall street journal" editorial today cause it the worst recovery from a recession ever, pointing to the fact that the unemployment rate has stayed above 9% for the last 14 months, which is actually worse than it was during the recession. which party has the best solution on the job's front? this has become a white-hot issue leading up to the midterms. it was a hot question at a

recent debate that keyed it up on a national level between republican linda mcmoney and richard blumenthal who are candidates for the senate. >> how do you create a job? >> a job is created in a variety of ways by a variety of people but principle lee by people and businesses in respond to demands for products and services. and the main point about jobs in connecticut is we can and we should create more than by creative policy. >> government, government, government, government does not create jobs. it's very simple how you create jobs, a entrepreneur takes a risk. he or she believes that they create goods or services that is sold for more than it cost to make it. if an entrepreneur thinks he can do that it creates a job. megyn: that got to the heart of the issue that is concerning a lot of americans right now and

that is the staggering under employment rate. jonah goldberg is the editor of national review online and fox news contributor. nancy skin eris a radio talk show host. they are both my guest right now. this is put back on the front burner to their credit the issue that most americans really care about, which is jobs. you can talk about whether the republicans are using money that they are not discussing or whatever, jobs, that's what people care about, that is clear. jonah when people go to pull the lever in the ballot box does that debate accurately tee up the philosophical differences between republicans ab democrats on that? >> in some sense it does, and some sense it doesn't. historically fairly or unfairly presidents get blamed when unemployment rates are very high. that is true when presidents deserve the blame or don't. i happen to think obama deserves a good share of the blame, but regardless whether he does or

not presidents get blamed for that kind of thing. we are seeing a test sample that goes back to the new deal. obama came in promising a second new deal. it didn't help very much won employment either and it turns out that the policies which create uncertainty in the business area and make everyone afraid to hire new people, particularly because there are more entitlements with hiring new people are deadly for unemployment rates. i think obama deserves the schalacking he's going to get on this. megyn: there is a dived between the parties and how to stimulate the economy and how to create jobs, the republicans from reagan to bourbon down said lower the tax burden, get out of the way and make it easy for the corporations. you have democrats that say, let's help, let's tax the rich and it will funnel down and help the middle class and more government inch srofplt is a good thing. can you make that case? >> well, the way it's supposed to work, how do you create a job is a entrepreneur takes a risk

and starts a business, or a company hires more people because there is greater demand out there and they need to hire more people, or the best way to get a job is to marry a rich guy like linda mcmahaon did. megyn: come on, come on. >> i had to get that. listen, megyn, when there is a recession the government can facilitate a recovery, because when the entrepreneur can't get a loan he's done. and when there is no demand for the company then the government can stimulate demand through a variety of ways. i would foe further and say the government in some ways, mostly private sector, the government has created jobs. they do research at the nih that has created drugs and supplies and nasa has invented technologies like all kinds of solar and microwave technologies that have created whole industries. there is no black-and-white.

megyn: okay, let me jump in. i think that is interesting. she started, jonah by saying an entrepreneur takes a risk. and in order for an entrepreneur to be willing to do that you've pointed out they need certainly. that is something that we are lacking right now. >> that's right. you don't know where the government is going to go next, you don't know what they are going to tax next. if we want to argue about industrial policy. megyn: no we don't. industrial policy my eyes are glazing over immediately. jon: boring, losing consciousness. the simple reality is is that what obama promised wasn't more funding for nih and the the spinoffs from nasa which he's basically shutting down any way, what he promised was that the stimulus was going to do something to create jobs. the stimulus basically made things worse, the unemployment rate got worse after the stimulus. the stimulus rather than being the proper thing that liberals are suppose to believe in about

stimulating demand was instead a giant wealth transfer payments to teachers unions and a whole bunch of programs that democrats felt were unfunded for a very longtime. it didn't have much stimulus effect. it did help the industry that made the signs and this brought to you by the stimulus. megyn: they talk about how the president claims we've made some progress but we are not where we need to be but don't kick us out yet because we are sort of in the middle of the job, this is what lott writes in the "wall street journal." this ignores the fact that since obama became presidents unemployment rate has increased faster than 25 of the 30 other countries that the economist magazine had data for from 09 to 2010. many of these countries refused to follow the u.s.'s massive spending solution despite pressure from obama his theory being you can't spend your way out of this as these other countries who have got even out of their messes much faster than than we have got even out of

ours have proven. >> we had to spend with as the country with the greatest wealth to get out of this. megyn: what about the stimulus? >> the stimulus, yeah, part of the stimulus, and tarp, and the banks and all of that, a lot of that fell on the united states. i'm on the front line of business creation, i run a business accelerationing cue baiter called next wave in michigan. they come to me with great ideas, the one thing they cannot get is to get financing, funding. banks aren't lending to them, we have to get very creative, the entrepreneur isn't worried about what his tax rate will be in five years. megyn: wait, wait, wait, aren't they, because i have to tell you speaking from personal experience i have a brother who is a small business owner, i'm sure he'd love to get loans from the bank because now his business is hurting thanks to the recession, he is worried about the tax rate, he's very worried about that and worried about where his customers are going to come from and the

uncertainty going into the new year. >> he's also worried about the mandates that come with obamacare. let's stipulate that you're right about no small businessmen are actually worried about tax rates which i find implausible, why did obama, if the important thing was creating this demand and helping with these jobs and getting loans out there invest the vast majority of his political capital for his first year in office on a health program that the majority of the american people said he didn't want. that was a huge distraction from the economy he's trying to fix. megyn: quickly, nancy. >> because that is the biggest dragon the economy. a long term deficit is the healthcare system and small businesses will get tax credit to provide it for their people so they are healthy and working and we can have a procee produce economy, that's why he did it. megyn: it is an important issue. you have to know where both sides stand. you guys have offered that perspective. thank you both. fox news alert moments away we're told from seeing the rescue of that miner who proposed to his girlfriend while he was trapped underground.

we hear that she is waiting for him right now at the surface. that will be the reunion to see. i am looking forward to that one. adam housley is on the scene for us. adam is this the girlfriend being taken over to the scene right now? >> reporter: yeah, it is. he's been dating her for 25 years, and he sent up that message, esteban rojas is his name. he sent that message up to her saying he wanted to get married when heee merged. she'll see him for the first time in person. this trip up began about two or three minutes ago. it's been taking anywhere between 12 and 14 minutes, there's only been two slower than that. again you'll be seeing him emerge here in about ten minutes, maybe a little bit more than that as he heeds up here above ground, he'll be the 18th miner rescued at this point. if everything continues to go we've heard from the minister of mines that they expect to finish overnight and maybe as early as early tomorrow morning, which is

well ahead of the schedule that they originally thought was going to take place here, about two miners an hour. they had a chance of course to basically grease the wheels once again on the rescue pod that is bringing up this man to see his soon to be wife for the for the first time since august 5th. megyn: 25 years, he has reprieve lot of women who are dating men with commitment issues a lot of hope because of that proposal. what is the inside bet whether he will have fashioned some sort of a ring in that mine underground? >> reporter: you know, it won't be a surprise whatsoever. some of these guys are already getting nicknamed. one is being called hollywood by the press, he's the one that brought out all the presents. he hugged everybody. other people come out with bibles and drop to their knees and pray to god. others hug their loved ones as the first thing. others rally the rescuers to chant with them. we've seen a number of different ways these men have come up.

many of them with flags that they have written messages on, a chilean flag, very similar to a texas flag. wouldn't that be quite a way to announce his arrival to drop down on one knee and make it official although he asked through a note he sent to her. megyn: she has some sort of a tarp or a piece of -- i can't tell exactly what it is. she is holding something with mary mother of god on there, mother of jesus, go ahead, adam. >> reporter: yeah, it could be, yeah it could be one of the flags. they have some of the catholic flags that some of the people have been bringing up to them. some of the families have been bringing the chilean flags with hopes they've been writing the last 69 days. it could be one of the catholic flags. i haven't had a chance to see them up close. they've been bringing presents themselves toss give to their

loved ones as they step out of the rescue pod. it will be about ten minutes if it goes as planned, which most of these rescues have. megyn: no pressure on esteban but he was trapped in a gold mine, no excuses. this will be a great moment. i hope this one goes safely as all the others have, incredible moments there. back to adam moments from now we are back to this incredible rescue scene. again from seeing that mine miner who proposed to his girlfriend a few minutes away. plus a violent purse snatching caught on tape raising questions about why this victim risked her life. wait until you hear what was in that purse. anyone would have fought for it. and john stossel, channel link his inner stossel for an epic showdown with a big union boss. >> people say you union thugs are sucking the life out of

america. >> you know what i say to that, i say the trade union movement is the greatest antipoverty program that was ever developed. >> jobs are the greatest antipoverty program.

megyn: fox news alert, what may be the best moment of the whole day. we are just moments away now from seeing the rescue of a miner, now we're getting different information, that he will be renewing his vows with his wife. quite frankly i'm not sure which it is, either he just proposed to this woman or he's already married to her and they are going to be renewing their vows. either way it's going to be the reunion to watch, a few minutes away. i am joined by david loriski, he helped oversee a mine rescue eight years ago while he was the secretary for mine safety and health. all nine miners trapped for three days were pulled to

safety. he joins me now by phone. thank you so much for being here. that mine rescue was the last time sort of this kind of capsule was used to rescue the miners down below. we are watching and there is a sense of jubilation as we watch because they've successfully got even out 17 of the 33 miners. nonetheless it remains a risky business, obviously for the men who are waiting to be pulled up it's got to be frightening still. >> no question. these are trying times. i mean there is a lot of excitement, and things have gone very smoothly so far. i think a real credit to the planning and the preparation that's been done for the past two months. obviously for those that are still underground and for the families that are waiting and for the rescuers that are there, there is still a lot of anxious moments ahead of them. every time that capsule goes down the shaft and comes back up i can assure you that these folks have some nervous feelings as that is happening. megyn: as somebody who has obviously spoken and dealt with

miners trapped underground, albeit for a shorter time than these men, explain to us what you think the men are likely to go through now. >> for every time that the capsule reaches the sur if's and one of their coworkers is reunited with their families it has to be jubilent for them. at the same time they are obviously thinking, you know is there anything that can go wrong that will prohibit us from coming up. if i were in their shoes that's obviously what i would think. again, as smoothly as this has gone so far they have to be very optimistic this is going to continue on in the way it's going right now. obviously the longer -- the more that they have to wait the more anxious they become, at least i would think so. megyn: because you've got to worry about your comrades you've been underground with for the better part of two months, two months flat and you have to worry about what happened to you. we'll take a listen to them. obviously this is in spanish. but we'd like to see it when

they bring the capsule up, so let's just watch it together. [speaking in spanish] [applause] [speaking in spanish]

[applause] #- [applause] [chanting]

megyn: what a moment, just to provide some clarification now here is what we understand the status is. they have a common law marriage. they've been together for 25 years, which would be considered living together, a common law marriage but they have not had a proper church wedding, they are not legally and in the eyes of god considered married. that's what he proposed to her from deep underneath the ground and where you see their beautiful reunion, what a moment. he got down on his knees praying to god for his safety and health. what a moment. we need to take you over to the white house for the moment where the president is talking about the rescue of these miners. this has touched on international relations.

let's listen to president obama for just a minute. >> we are hopeful that the celebrations duplicate themselves throughout the rest of today. behind me i've got the mone family. the amilia family, and we've got the maynard. megyn: we caught just the tail end of the president's remarks on those miners. i want to get back to dave who helped oversee another mine rescue in pennsylvania eight years ago. dave, as you watch this, by the way trace gallagher has been following this for me. he tells me that the sunglasses that the miners are wearing are oakley, $450 a piece, donated which is quite something. as we watch this miner who will now be properly married to his

common law wife and love of 25 years come out of the mine and have a long embrace with his lady we wait for the 19th miner to come up. your thoughts on it, dave. >> for me a lot of memories and emotions, like what we went through eight years ago. these miners can be reunited with their families. i mean it's really hard to explain what kind of emotions you go through. there is so much adrenaline flowing through right now and so much relief on their families parts and the rescuers' parts. you can see it as you watch it. it's touching for everybody. megyn: it really is. just in case folks don't know, this happened on august 5th. there was a landslide that caused a tunnel 1700 feet down to collapse. one group of mines that was near the entrance made it out but the 33 others did not, and for 17 days we didn't know whether they were dead or alive.

finally they tunneled down and they sent back up a note that said, quote, the -- that said the 33 of us are fine in the shelter. and then, dave i want to ask you about this, then they knew actually before they were discovered whether they knew whether the world knew they were dead or alive they had rationed themselves to two teaspoons of turks, na. half a business kit -- bisquit, and half a glass of milk. psychiatrists say that was critical to keeping them sane because they didn't know whether people had given up hope. how do miners know to do that? is that part of the training exercise when you live your life working below ground? >> certainly in the united states that is something everybody should have to deal with. there should be that kind of training and i assume the same

thing is happening here in chile. they had good leaders underground with them to have for sight to know without any contact they had to do what they had to do to survive until somebody could reach them and know that they had a chance to come out alive. in pennsylvania, we knew early that we had live miners live based on the tapping on the drill steel that broke into the mine. that didn't last long, so the miners had to figure out what to do during the times before we got to them. megyn: the training or at hrao*e the leadership that was shown if they did not have the training 2,000 feet below the surface of the earth was nothing sort of stunning. chile has had their share of problems when it comes to the mines, they say 34 people have died every year in mining accidents in chile, and there will be a good hard look at the mines there.

>> no question. every time you have an incident or if the safety performance is not what it should be, and over the past few years a lot have occurred around the world, and i think taking on a new priority in people's' minds, for years we've tried to learn from these kind of events, we tried to be proceed active -- proactive, we tried to put systems and controls in place so we don't have these problems. but when they do happen there still has to be a hard look to figure out what can be done from a proactive standpoint to stop these things from occurring. megyn: yeah, that will be part of the deconstruction, dave thank you so much for your thoughts on it. we appreciate you being here. >> you're welcome. megyn: we will go back live to the scene when the 19th minor is brought to safety we hope. we'll take you there when it happens. in the meantime there is this, under employment is over 9 1/2%. skyrocketing government debt and millions of people losing their homes. a republican candidate for the house is blaming all of this on

his democratic rival, barney frank. he will join us live to explain his claim and talk about how the polls against frank seem to be tightening. this race just got moved from likely -- from democratic and secure to likely democratic, we'll talk to him about that. and mexico's lead investigator into the reported attack on americans david and tiffany hartley decapitated. what u.s. investigators are saying now. >> tough enough to, you know, get things moving and that, and then when something like this happens it just kind of will put the brakes on everything, it is just totally shocking when i heard that, i just could not believe it. let me tell you about a very important phone call i made.

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only 43% say they approve of the president's job performance. 53% disapprove. chief political core respond don't carl cameron is live in indianapolis where the race out there has become all about the president's policies and that must mean good news for the republican, carl. >> reporter: sure, megyn, you know, president obama made history when he won in 2008, not just as the first african-american president but the first one in 35, 40 years too actually win the state of indiana. no democrat had one the hoosiers state since lyndon banes johnson. evan bayh dropped out in this race, he was a longtime democratic darling, considered a presidential possibility and on the vice presidental short list more than once. he decided not to run for re-election in effect saying the obama agenda was dragging him down. the battle here features two,

republican dan coats, he served in the seats in the late 80s and the mid 90s. he left a seat and became a lobbyist in washington. he is under fire as a washington insider and he's leading the polls. the democrat is brad else wofrplt a two-term congressman from the 8th congressional district, a very, very conservative fiscal district. a tough enforcement type guy, he does everything he possibly can to say that coats is yesterday's news and should be passed over, we talked with him about exactly that, here is a sampling. >> mr. coats has been away from the state for so long, he hasn't owned plo property, he sold hist piece of property in 1994. hasn't voted in our elections in over ten years. hasn't paid taxes in indiana. hi first election he voted for was in may when he voted for himself in the republican

primary. >> reporter: polls say they think he is a hoosiers, he's over 50% and beating coats handily. he has opposed the cap and trade climate bill has essentially voted liberal democrat the rest of the way and should not be elected, here is what he had to say. >> he went to washington and voted with barack obama and nancy pelosi 97% of the times. people across the state are saying that doesn't sound like a conservative democrat to me. >> reporter: indiana has long been considered a red state. the barack obama election in 2008 was supposed to change everything. they apparently want to change change, megyn. megyn: thank you. blaming barney frank, big news on the campaign trail in massachusetts where a race was expected to be a walk in the park for the democrats has suddenly become a flight. the republican swinging hard in a brand-new debate with the

veteran democratic congressman barney frank. chairman much the committee that oversees hedge funds. he says frank supported policies that led to the meltdown. frank fired back saying he actually helped save the economy. here is some of that exchange in a recent debate. >> i want you to tell everybody what you think your role was in this collapse of the housing market. what responsibility do you take? did you make a mistake here? >> i made a mistake in 2003 in not seeing the problem with fanny mae and freddie mac but the republicans were in control and nothing happened. megyn: shaun belat is my guest right now. thank you so much for being here. this is fascinating. barney frank hasn't had a real challenger since 1982. this race has been considered solid democratic almost from the beginning. the cook political report has moved it from slightly democratic to just likely democratic because of the surge you've had in recent weeks. a lot of folks are saying you

tell me that massachusetts might be ready to get rid of barney frank? why is that? >> people here recognize his role in the financial collapse. they recognize he's been wrong on the issues for year after year after year, they see the spending that he's pushed. just like in the receipts of -- rest of the country they are upset with washington and disappointed in the lack of leadership and they are ready for change. he's been in office for 30 years. even people on the democratic side say wow 30 years is too long. they need fresh thinking, they need somebody new coming in. megyn: you're 35 years old, you look young, you look like a baby, but you're a marine, you went to georgetown, harvard, and wharton, so you're a classic under achiever and decided to run for office and take on one of the giants in the house, barney frank may have done the things you just said but the voters in massachusetts haven't had any problem with him for

decades. what makes you think that that message is going to resonate with voters in the 4th district of massachusetts which tend to really like charlie -- barney frank. >> he hasn't had an opponent since 1982. it's been a longtime since voters had a choice. one theory reus that he's beloved and that's why he's been returned all the time. the theory i hold is that people haven't had a real choice. scott brown won this district. people here have shown very recently that they are willing to elect the republican if they think that the democrat isn't up to the job. i think we are going to see that this year. our polling shows that this is a tight race -- i'm sorry. megyn: go ahead. because this race not a lot of people have even been polling it that's how out of it help thought you were until people who were paying attention said hold on, hold on this may not be a shoo-in for barney frank. >> our polling shows barney

frank was at 48 and i was at 38. as you increase the name id to improve we expect the gap to narrow. half this district is independent and we had a 51-34 lead among independents. it shows you where people are -- what people are thinking this year, they are looking for something new, somebody with business experience instead of political experience to go to washington and work on the economy. megyn: he talks about how you -- that you raised $400,000 last month alone and you are being heavily promoted by a national coalition of right wing forces, including shaun hannity, glen beck and rush limbaugh, not to mention karl rove and the tea party according to barney frank. what say you? >> that is great that he thinks i have that kind of sway over media. i wish that were true i would have started using it a while ago. it's ironic that he's pushing this message. he raised more just from pax

through september 30th than i did from all sources combined. in this scenario, i'm the david, he's the goliath, not the reverse. i think it's kind of funny this he's making that argument. megyn: he's in a little bit of trouble right now. i wonder if you have any thoughts on it. the boston herald is reporting he took a free private jet belonging to a billionaire hedge fund owner this guy donald sussman and the hedge fund received $200 million in bail outs from wall street, suggesting it was a conflict, the congressman shouldn't have done that gone on the private jet down to the virgin islands with that sussman. he says he's a friend of mine, i'm entitled to go see him i declared it there is nothing wrong with it. >> he has too many of these personal friends that he's trying to do favors for. we saw it with maxine waters in the bank one united. he got bail out money to a bank that was failing far before the financial collapse. we've seen this a number of

times. this is what happens when you have these people that are in this d.c. corruption for 30 years. i'm not saying he did anything illegal but just because it's not illegal doesn't make it right. we need fresh blood and thinking in here and i think this is the year that is going to happen. megyn: shaun belat worked as a program manager for a company that builds robots used to destroy roadside bombs in iraq and afghanistan. wherever you wind up sir it sounds like it will be for a noble cause, thank you for being with us today. >> all the best. megyn: barney frank welcome to come on any time and offer his side. we would love to have that. american tourist's david hartley body is missing along with his jet ski and now the lead investigator in mexico has met and extremely gruesome fate. we'll bring you the latest from the u.s. side and the investigators.

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megyn: back now to the live event in chile where we are awaiting the rescue of the 19th trapped miner. 14 to go after him. they spent more than two months underground. this is beneath the ground where they are pre wearing to load

pablo rojas on the capsule. each miner was permitted two family members although they've been a little liberal with those rules to their credit. we will see it live as it happens right here on "america live." the falcon lake investigation will go on despite the beheading of the lead investigator in the case. we're told now that rolando flores' severed head with us delivered to the mexican military in a suitcase. he was leading the investigation into the suspected shooting of david hartley. as he and his wife were jetskiing on falcon lake which straddles the texas-mexican border. tiffany hartley says her husband was hit by a pirate's bullet and was killed. her reaction today to the news of this man's death. >> i cannot express how my heart breaks for his family. we are going through this too, and i cannot express how much i ache for him and his family.

i mean, he didn't deserve it. megyn: sheriff zigi gonzalez is on the phone with us from laredo, texas. thank you so much. you are overseeing this on the texas side. we find out the chief investigator on the mexican side has been beheaded. the initial reports out last night from mexican sources was that this is not related to the death or disappearance of david hartley in any way. is that true? >> frankly, megyn, i feel that it is related to the disappearance. now one thing we must understand, mr. v aeug gas -- villegas was not the lead investigator on the mexican side, he was in charge of the search investigation for mr. hartley's body. we have contacts in mexico and we do believe that the death of mr. villegas is attributed or

connected to the death of mr. hartley. megyn: are you concerned for your safety being the person looking into this on the american side? >> well, the threat of anything happening to us is always there, megyn, we just have to, i guess it's something we live by on the border. i don't think that anything would happen, i don't think -- but then again i could be very mistaken the way things are going, but i don't think that any cartel members would be brazen enough to try something like that because it would draw a lot of heat to the border area, but then again there have been federal officers killed in imperial county california, two border agents were killed if a matter of six months, you never know. megyn: where does this put us with regard to this investigation. the mexican authorities when it first happened raised questions whether tiffany hartley's story was true. they said we can't find the body, the jet ski and we have questions whether it happened the way she said. now we've heard there is an eyewitness. now we've heard that they have

two suspects identified although other mexican authorities say no, that is not true. now we heard that there is a spot of blood that was found on her life jacket that could belong to her husband. and now we see the lead investigator on the mexican side decapitated by, we suspect, drug cartels, so you tell me what does that tell us about tiffany hartley's story? >> tiffany, as far as i'm concerned since day one we've believed her. we checked some things immediately to determine if there was any possibility that she could be lying to us. all indications were that she was telling us the truth. all indications today is that she is telling us the truth. and there is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that she committed the offense herself. i believe her, i believed her all the time. my investigation, or our investigation has led us to believe that she had nothing to do with it. information that is confidential leads us to know that the death of mr. hartley was in fact

attributed to drug cartel members that were trying to scare him away, but they had an unlucky shot that hit mr. hartley in the head. that information cannot be disclosed, we have information that it was in fact committed by mexican drug cartel members not tiffany. megyn: you have ruben dario rios, are you familiar with this gentleman? >> no, i'm not. megyn: he's the state police spokesperson, and he has come out and said, look, we still don't even know if david hartley is dead. there is no body. he claims there is no eyewitnesses and he says tiffany has been invited to come down there and file a formal police report, and she hasn't done it and says she won't do it and he won't even confirm that david hartley is dead, disappeared or otherwise. >> we have been in contact with an agency in mexico, i believe that is maybe the gentleman my investigators have been in

contact with. tiffany has given hero figures statement at the -- her, official statement at the mexican consulate in texas. she was assured by the government officials of mexico and the consulate that her statement would go to any agency in mexico that would request a copy of it. i have strongly recommended to tiffany that she not go to mexico. megyn: she said she won't. >> i believe it is not very safe for her to go to mexico. i think that any agency in mexico may request a copy if they want her statement or declaration or complaint, and very simply go to the consulate's office in texas, it's in spanish, they can get a copy of the statement. it's available to all mexican agencies that may request them. i'd like to know what agency in mexico is conducting the investigation of mr. hartley's murder, because it was a murder case. megyn: they have been all over

the board on whether anything happened, whether they believed her. we don't know what to believe at this point. we believe we want you to stay safe, sheriff gonzalez. thank you for coming on and all the best to you. >> thank you. megyn: retirement at 55, perfect pensions, plenty of sick days, john stossel has some sharp questions for a big union. >> people say you union thugs are sucking the life out of america. >> you know what i say to that, i say the trade union movement is the greatest antipoverty program that was ever developed. >> jobs are the best antipoverty program. megyn: john stossel and his epic face-to-face with this union boss just ten minutes away. and did nance -- is nancy pelosi dragging down the democrats? she is now starring in 47 separate republican campaign ads, not to mention the ones she is in from the democrats.

richard sock ka raoet tees -- socaretes up next with information on the speaker of the house. you were a big part f

this. >> it's definitely overwhelming. to be a part of something so huge and be a part of saving 33 miners is just overwhelming. >> reporter: a lot of us don't know about the drilling technology. when we think about drilling it's kind of like a cork screw that we think about. what you guys do is something different, explain. >> basically like you were saying a cork screw is like a drill bit twisting the material out. with our bits here you're basically like a hammer on a piece of glass shattering it

into many particles and then the air that comes out of the bits flushes it back up past the canister and gets it out a lot faster. you're not twisting. sometimes you might run into a rock when you're twisting and you'll have a bind. this will sit there, pound away, break up that particle and send it up out. >> reporter: when you guys realized you had the technology, know how and equipment to do this how long did it take you to get down to chile, you're owners went down there. >> brandon said, we can get them out before december. we've done situations, not similar to this, we have the data, we know how nass we can go down the hole. it was about three weeks before we had the okay. it was get the drills built, it was about three weeks, and then a week, week and a half until everything was shipped out. >> reporter: when we got here earlier this morning we saw signs all up and down the streets congratulating center

rock incorporated. what does that feel like? you guys are like hometown heroes. >> i won't say we are hometown heroes, everybody pulled together here, there are a lot of guys who work here, everybody pulled together as a team. it's amazing to be a part of something that is so big and here we are the little town of berlin it's pretty awesome. >> reporter: how many miners did you see come up before you went to bed. >> i believe it was five, i think it was about 3:30 before i went to sleep. >> reporter: we'll continue to bring this live to you on fox, back to you. megyn: live to the scene in chile with adam housley as we await the rescue of the 19th miner pablo rojas. adam, tell us what is happening here. >> reporter: we've been told what, two minutes, ron, two minutes before he comes up, the 19th miner. he is the brother of esteban rojas who we saw emerge and go into the of his family. he's 45 years old, his name is

pablo rojas. his father died a week before this accident happened. he was only working leer for the last five months to pay for college so his only son could go to medical school. according to the rescuers he has never complained since the first contact. he didn't want to worry his family, so he never complained about the conditions down there, never spoke of them, only spoke about what he wanted to do when he came up. we'll see that first instance of his return here within now a minute and a half or so. megyn we are very, very close for that capsule to return with the 19th miner. megyn: it looks like we're seeing it. >> reporter: we are hearing it right now. i was going to say. megyn: we're just going to listen. >> reporter: it's right now happening. megyn: we'll watch as pablo emerges. [speaking in spanish]

[applause] [speaking in spanish] [applause]

[speaking in spanish] megyn: adam, is that the son you were telling us about right before we cut away? >> reporter: yeah, there are two brothers, back low and esteban. pablo is the second one to come up. he greeted his son, his family,

these reunions make you smile every time, megyn. out here it keeps everybody's hopes up for the miners that are still in the mine awaiting their turn. pablo rojas who only worked here for five months to send his son through medical school is safe and sound with his brother above ground. megyn: after they hug their families they go over sort of to the left and they hug the same man, and a couple of guys stapbt standing there in red jackets. who are those men? >> reporter: right, i don't know their names. i do know what they do. they are the guys who basically have run the operation on the ground, they've been communicating down through the hole, made sure the miners knew what was going on. they've been the point people at that location. they go right to them. some of the other miners who have been very strong, not all of them have done this but many of them have, go around and hug every single one of the rescuers taking part in this, the men in charge of the pod going up and

down, the men making sure they had their supplies, the men who made sure that they were prepared when it came to physical conditions and also mental conditions, some of the things they did. many of those rescuers, many of those people responsible for those men being alive so long underground, the longest in the history of the world are the ones that are being thanked and they are the ones standing outside that rescue area rightfully so, right along with the families as each one of these men steps out safe and sound, 19 now are out, megyn. we still have of course 14 more miners to be rescues as well as four rescue personnel down there. if it all continues to go the way it is that should happen around midnight tonight your local time. megyn: there's been a lot of talk about who would be the last miner out. i know the last group is considered to be the strongest physically. there was debate over who would go last. it was considered i guess an honor to come out last you would have the record as being the person longest underground. how was that decision made?

>> reporter: yeah, you know that's something we've been asking. there's been some names thrown out there. the names have changed a couple of times. we are not going to speculate. they haven't determined how they are going to determine it. potentially the last one out will be one of the rescuers. all the miners will be treated then the rescuers. -pbg the last miner out he would have the world record underground by eup himself. the pod is going back downtown. there was a quick turn around, they did not need to service it. you can expect the pod to return within a half hour. the last person will have that distinguishment of being the man underground for the longers period of time in the world. we do not have that name. megyn: adam mentions the rescue workers who are getting hugs from these men, what care they've taken of the men as they've been underground for 69 days. from sending nicotine patches,

it's not exactly the time to quit smoking when you're under stress full circumstances under the ground. to september 8th when there was a chilean soccer game against the ukraine. they put a camera down the shaft and broadcast the soccer game on a little part of the wall underground and the chilean players wore t shirts saying "miners be strong." the next miner to come up we believe will be dario segovia. you'll see it here live. well less than three weeks to go before the midtermee electrics and the republicans are now running as in dozens of states taking aim not at the president but at house speaker nancy pelosi. by dozens i mean 47 states. take a listen to some of them. >> john adler says he's independent but adler has voted

with nancy pelosi over 90% of the time. is nancy pelosi right over 90% of the time that's how often chris carney voted with her. chris carney staggering debt here sending jobs to china who is he working for. megyn: is pelosi becoming a tkrog on the democrats? richard socarides is a former special assistant to president clinton and a strategist. he is one who says you do not mess with nancy pelosi. something i'm going to guess, richard, a gentleman by the name of roy herron who is running to replace john tanner out in tennessee just found out the hard way. he says -- he's a democrat he came out and said he would not vote for nancy pelosi as house speaker if she maintained her speaker ship, and low and behold the next day the democratic national campaign committee yanked his funding. he says there was no coincidence. >> reporter: i'm sure it's a coincidence and i think it's not her fault. the fact that she's become this

very powerful symbol. megyn: not? >> reporter: she's become a very powerful symbol of what is not working in washington, that congress is dysfunctional. john boehner is actually a little more unpopular, his numbers are a little worse than hers, but because she's head of the congress naturally she is a target. but the truth is she's been a highly effective person. she is an idealist, she is practical, an enforcer, she is everything you want in a speaker. megyn: let me stop you there. that is an interesting point. you are a democrat, you work for president clinton. he was beloved by not just democrats, by some republicans, by many independents and moderates. >> reporter: not always but right now. megyn: do you think that nancy pelosi is a good face person for the democratic party? >> reporter: not now, not now. things turn around. president clinton was not always as popular as he is now. the two most popular people in the democratic party right now are bill clinton and michelle

obama, and you're starting to see. megyn: and hillary clinton. >> reporter: and hillary clinton is very popular too, she is secretary of state, she can't really go out and campaign. today you saw michelle obama do some campaign stops. bill clinton is traveling everywhere in the next three weeks. these are obviously the people that the democratic party is going to put forward, and the president is starting to go into campaign mode. megyn: in the same way the president is trying to demon ice karl rove. >> reporter: for allowing the foreign contributions. megyn: right, right the totally unproven truth. be careful because we're taking up in "kelly's court" whether that is defamatory. >> reporter: it's an interesting charge, right? megyn: only if you have a foundation for it. >> reporter: you have to have proof in "kelly's court." megyn: karl rove is the boogie man for the democrats. is she the boogie man for the republicans, is she easy to bat around, she's been a liberal, everything the progressive

caucus wants you to be. is thee easy to demon ice. 47 states and democrats are doing it. >> reporter: she's an easy target because she has been the point person for pushing through all of this legislation that's been unpopular. healthcare reform, financial reform, legislation that i think once people understand better they are still going to feel better about, but legislation which the democratic party -- megyn: when is that going to be, richard 2030. >> reporter: i think the biggest mistake the democrats have made after they passed healthcare they got tired of talking about it and walked away from it and the republicans kept hitting on it. but they fail to sell the merits of the healthcare bill and that is going to come back and haunt them now. i think all this stuff has an ebb and flow. if the democrats can hold on, and it's a big if, if the democratting can hold on she will be back, stronger than ever. megyn: they are going to reelect her. are you afraid of nancy pelosi.

>> reporter: i'm not afraid of her because she has nothing on me. megyn: so you think. >> reporter: if i were a member of congress i'd make sure that i stayed on her good side. she will be back. megyn: richard whose bad side could you possibly be on. >> reporter: i'm sure there are a lot of people. megyn: not mine. >> reporter: good to be here. megyn: pleasure always. karl rove, gop strategist and boogie man, and ed gillespie and the u.s. chamber of commerce they've come under direct fire from the democratic party, including the head of the democratic party. they are said to have used foreign contributions to get republicans elected. all say that new political ad put out by the democratic national committee in particular is entirely bogus. if that's true, if a false accusation that they have committed a crime has been made by the dnc in an ad, can they sue for defamation? "kelly's court" on the campaign trail next. (announcer) energy security.

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[ male announcer ] e-trade. investing unleashed. megyn: the battle for the future of america, it's already happening in the hauls of congress at the cash register, the gas station and almost every aspect of our lives. on one side unions and progressives, on the other conservatives and free enterprise that's according to john stossel in his new special coming up on the fox business network this friday at 10:00pm. >> reporter: on the regular fox network. megyn: oh, really. >> reporter: i got promoted to the big network. megyn: does greta know. >> reporter: i hope so. megyn: okay. now you're railing on unions and progressives, in particular or their policies or what is it? >> reporter: yeah, it's like america has makers and takers, the people who create stuff and they do tend by and large to be rich entrepreneurs.

and there is the sense there's the pie and i'm not getting my share. progressives don't get that they make many new pies and make us all richer. in one segment i fight with our local union, they are losing $900 million. they take 15 sick days, retire at age 50. they claim assault, a bus driver when they are spat on. i confront the head of the union about that. we have a clip. a fourth of your workers took more than 15 sick days. in the private sector they wouldn't last long doing that. >> i don't believe that's true. >> reporter: it's not true that if a quarter of the people take 15 sick days? >> about 25% of our workforce are women, women have babies. >> reporter: but in the private sector there are women getting pregnant. >> are you saying that women who are pregnant -- how long -- i mean -- >> reporter: i'm wondering why there are so many sick days. >> i'm telling you why, there's a significant amount of new york

city transit workers are women now where as it never was like that. >> reporter: there are a lot of women around here too. >> and when they get pregnant how much time do they take off work. >> reporter: i don't know i'll find out. >> you're pointing your finger at me and my union and you really don't have an answer for it. >> reporter: so i got an answer, three days on average. megyn: during the pregnancy. >> reporter: no, over the year. but it's really turned out to be somewhat of an unfair comparison, you get paid sick days, the transit workers get ten, 12 weeks but they don't get paid maternity leave. but there is that difference. the bigger one was that the bus drivers, 51 bus drivers who were spat on said they were assaulted and they took on average 65 days off. megyn: that is paid leave, right. >> reporter: that's paid leave. they were assaulted i mine. megyn: they said they had emotional tpraupl a dash ash trauma they had to get through. >> reporter: that happens, you know. megyn: unions, i don't know when i was growing up they had a great reputation, it was like

norm a rae and the man was keeping them down and they had no rights and horrible working conditions and somebody needed to stand up for the laborers and say. [singing] we're not going to take it and that's what they did. >> reporter: that's what this guy said, we work in terrible conditions, we are likely to die on the job, we deserve all this stuff. first it's a good idea and they get workers more pay but then the rigid work rules kill the business. it's like the soviet union, it took 70 years to fail. it takes time for the unions to fail. megyn: the sense of entitlement, this is what has been going on these pensions, early retirement, this pay grade, the benefits they've been built into the cake, they are in the system, to try to take them away is like trying to take social security away, medicare away, once it's in how do you get rid of it. >> reporter: very tough. even the tea party folks who say, oh yes we want a cut. when you say would you cut medicare, no. would you cut social security?

no. megyn: you should have seen the hate mail you got last week when you said people don't eastern their social security payments. >> reporter: i paid into the system. you're getting out much more than you ever paid n. the union man said we work in these terrible conditions, we die younger. the truth is fishermen and loggers are 50 times as likely to be killed on the job as even cops and firemans. megyn: loggers i can kind of understand, fishermen? >> reporter: because they get into storms and drown and nasty stuff happens on fishing boats. megyn: leave it up to corporate america to treat the workers right and if not that's the way competition works? >> reporter: companies need good workers. they will treat good workers right because they want to get the best workers and that lifts wages better than union congress. megyn: in my experience that has been true, the cream rises to the top. >> reporter: you are the cream. megyn: we are the cream of the crop especially you stossel. if you want to see more of mr. half and half over here

10:00pm on the fox news channel, 10:00pm that will air after hanna tee this friday night. i'll be watching, thanks, john. the democratic national committee has launched a new ad suggesting interest groups are spending foreign money on ads, that would be illegal. can the argets of the ads sue? that is next in "kelly's court." plus a woman risks her own life during a robbery just to hang onto her purse . why didn't she just turn it over? her life is at stake. there is a heart wrenching reason that will convince any of you just ahead. but aleve can last 12 hours. and aleve was proven to work better on pain than tylenol 8 hour. so why am i still thinking about this? how are you? good, how are you? [ male announcer ] aleve. proven better on pain. ready to try something new? campbell's has made changes. adding lower sodium sea salt to more soups. plus five dollars in coupons to get you started. campbell's condensed soup. pass it on.

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is committing a crime, that is

defamation pursue. megyn: meaning you don't have to prove damage, the law presumes that you have been injured. jon: precisely. new york times versus sullivan 1964 says we have wide latitude to attack public figures unfortunately. so the dnc might get away with this by claiming -- >> that's where it starts to blur the lines, when you accuse someone of a crime that's where all stakes are off at that point. that's why even the malice requirement for these types of cases are out the window. megyn: let's just talk about that. we've always talked about in the cases of celebrities, brad pitt, he's having an a fair. if you say that you've got to prove. if he sues because he's such a public figure you have to prove the person said it with actual malice, which basically means knowledge of it's falsity or reckless disregard about whether it was true or false. could karl rove or the chamber of commerce prove that the dnc knew this was false or

recklessly disregarded whether this was true or false in making this statement. >> they'll have to come forward and prove that there is actually some truth to it. where did this allegation even come from initially? they are going to have to look at the emails, look at correspond between these individuals. if they can't come forward and say if is how we came to this presumption, this is how we reasonably concluded that they in fact committed this crime, that's why we can rely on it. megyn: the president himself didn't go quite as far as the dnc but he came pretty close to making the same accusation and it was all based on a blog post, will that be enough for the president for the dnc for everybody to come back and say, hey it was from this liberal blog? >> if they relied in good faith on it. i think you hit this on the head, this is a proof problem from karl rove's standpoint. the dnc can sit back and say do you really want to open the can of worms and let us get into the discovery process in the lawsuit that's why i think the dncas

them by the short ones. megyn: understood. you get in a situation where you can make these allegations, right, tell me if i'm wrong and you really don't have to worry because the other side is never going to sue you. you can just say what you want, you're not going to get sued. it's actually dnc, mercedes is now in the cat bird seat. >> certainly, i think that karl rove thaepb should come forward and say we have to stop this. this is more than mud slinging this is accusing someone of a crime. that can blemish our reputation forever. no matter how much they start to clear their name up this will keep coming up. megyn: it's got even a lot of national exposure but so has their side. one final word for our viewers, these guys, gillespie, rove, chamber of commerce may actually have a case, this ad at least comes dangerously close to the line of defamation. will you will they sue? no that doesn't make it right. thanks for watching everybody, i'm megyn kelly. studio b with sheppard smith starts in a moment. [ male announcer ] gout's root cause is high uric acid.

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