tory and find an arthritis treatment that works for you. ask your doctor about celebrex. and, go to celebrex.com to learn more about how you can move toward relief. celebrex. for a body in motion. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> glenn: well, hello, america, from los angeles. welcome to the program. you remember the story of stuff? oh, well, it was great. it was a little cartoon that the progressives and the tides foundation brought our children. over 4,000 or 5,000 schools now nationwide run this. it's basically telling our children that we stink on ice! because we're just destroying the planet. well, there is another fabulous progressive project brought to you by george soros, and the tides

foundation. they played this propaganda to our kids in the schools in hopes that kids become part of the environmentalist movement. now they've crossed another line. with the story of stuff message, they are now heading in to our churches and our synagogues. they have got a spinoff production, titled "let there be stuff." a six-session curriculum that helps christians and jews, christian and jewish teens "explore their relationship between their consumption and their faith, and the health of the planet." suggested ad for church bulletins reads do you wonder you can do to make the biggest difference in the future of the planet? how do you think a christian would answer that question? probably something jesus related, right? god is a little particular on what your top priorities should be. i'm pretty sure reducing your carbon foot print probably is not very high on the list. however, taking care of his creation would be.

hmm. confusing, isn't it? well, they're not stopping with let there be stuff. they are now going right into our churches and our synagogues. it's for the planet, you know. they want you to join a group. that is the best thing our teens can do, join a group. is that sulfur, i smell? yes! i think so. join me now is cal beister, founder and national spokesman of the cornwall alliance for the stewardship of creation. and david barton, the founder and president of wall builders. welcome both. >> thank you. >> glenn: to the show. okay. let me start with you, cal. you went through the curriculum, which is fantastic, isn't it? >> oh, there are many wonderful things in it, all sorts of nice stuff in there with other stuff mixed in. >> yes. >> glenn: here is the thing. i want you to understand as a parent or as a christian or a

synagogue-attending jew that you understand that there is some truth in all of this. and it's mixed with the teaching of mankind and the philosophy of man and oh, it just becomes all nice, warm and fuzzy. i am going to literally play devil's advocate today. i want to push back on this, because some of this is true and find out exactly where we split good and bad in the story of stuff project here. so cal, you went through it. let's look at some of the things that you found in the teachings here. >> well, first of all, there is a good bit of good stuff in there. fundamental idea that we should as people who fear god and who believe in him, we should be taking care of this earth. that is a good thing. >> glenn: yes. >> of course, that's obvious to anybody. where you start getting the problems is when you start getting in the details. the apostle paul told us in

first thesaolians, test all things and hold fast what is good. that's with a we need to do with this curriculum. give you an example quickly. in chapter one, it says when we drink, we owe a debt. what? to god? to the earth's great waters. >> glenn: i was just at the earth's great waters today! worshipping them. that is american native -- i mean i guess you could go there. >> it's the difference between thankful for, and thankful to. we're not thankful to the waters. we're thankful to god who made them, for the waters. >> glenn: right. >> that's the difference. >> glenn: okay. >> chapter two, it says we opened our hearts to what? the creator? to jesus christ? no, no, no. we opened our hearts to

creation. this is new age panthistic thinking. open your heart. the creation which is itself god tends to fill you and you begin to sense your oneness with all of creation. >> glenn: let me may devil's advocate. >> this is hindu thought. >> glenn: let me, let me look at this. if i open myself up to creation and see myself as part of creation, and i am one with all that god created. then i can worship god and say look at all of the amazing -- how many of us have gone in to the mountains and looked at the mountains and said oh, my gosh, look at how great your creation? >> last month, my wife and i drove through washington, idaho, montana, wyoming, incredibly beautiful. all through it we thanked god over and over again for the beauty of that. but you said one with. no, we're not one with.

god made creation. and he made us. we're part of creation. but we're not one with creation. that's buddhist thought and everything is one. >> glenn: i could -- >> onism instead of twoism. >> glenn: right. "i" could -- i could play devil's advocate saying we're splitting hair. i know i'm separate from creation, i am not part of the tree and the tree is not part of me but we're part of god's creation. he created that, and that. man created the camera, but god created the elements that went into the camera. you know what i mean? >> but we are not just splitting hairs when what we see is pantheisn brought in churches saying that god is the universe and the universe is god, instead of god made the universe. that is not splitting hairs. >> glenn: yes. >> that is a fundamental

doctrine called creation out of nothing. otherwise, you think that god made the universe out of himself. well, that's buddhist and hindu thought, not christian. >> glenn: so now to the next piece. chapter three. >> take another example here. we're told in chapter three that all sorts of things that we produce and the processes we use to produce them are poisoning us. that's just one example of many throughout the curriculum, where frankly they are, they are pushing alarm, they are trying to scare children. what they're not mentioning simply is as economies grow, as they develop through the years, we actually have cleaner and cleaner, healthier, more beautiful environments in which we live. what we see is that when you live in a primitive subsistence agriculture society you're exposed to all kind of disease carriers. but as you get wealthier, you

can eliminate that and you can have a cleaner life. that's why we live longer. >> glenn: the one thing that it kills me, they always say that well, our water isn't as pure as it used to be. i mean if you just read history, there is a great book called "conquering gotham" about the -- have you read it? about the pennsylvania railroad. coming in to new york and what they had to do to build tunnels and everything else. just the description of people, the way they had to live, getting on the ferry boats and coming across water with the dead animals and human waste, and garbage and i mean just, it was filthy. now it wouldn't be tolerated. clean it up. >> glenn, 200 years ago, average human life expectancy in the united states was under 35 years. it was under 30 years for most of human history until 1800.

now it's around 80. people are living longer. you can't reconcile that with the notion we're making a worse environment in which to live. the best measure of the environment, bottom line measure is human health and longevity. those are improving over time. not diminishing, which shows we have improving environment. >> glenn: next? >> another example of the alarm that they're trying to use. they refer in chapter three again to massive climate changes. now, you've looked at this enough. when we first met at the first international conference on climate change. >> glenn: yep. >> this is an unproven hypothesis. if anything, in the last year, it has been just thoroughly trashed by climate gate and other things of that sort. they are bringing this forward, giving it to kids as if it were proven. and should scare kids to death. that's not so. >> can i jump in? i don't see a problem. if you don't believe in massive climate change, move

to texas and live there a while. what you are on to, it's not anthropogenic. we're in the what caused the climate change -- >> glenn: the only thing constant in life is change. >> right. that's why we have averages. >> glenn: was the dinosaur, the woolly mammoth giant suvs they were driving? how is it we've had -- we've had ice ages. >> yeah. >> glenn: yet, there were no suvs. this is ridiculous. >> right. >> the real climate change deniers are not the people who deny manmade climate change, they assert manmade climate change as if the climate didn't change before. it's always been changing. >> glenn: if you want to protect against climate change, you would understand it always changes and you would develop a society that can withstand the change. >> cornwell alliance just released 12 lecture set of dvds called resisting the green dragon. the environmental movement we

call the green dragon. in that, the climatologist at the university of delaware has a lecture specifically on global warming. people can say about this resisting the green dragon.com and sign up for a free 19-minute introduction to that. we treated that and too many people hear it and they take it in. critically. >> glenn: here is what interests me on this particular thing. i don't know of a single person that wants -- we all live here. we share it. i don't know anyone who thinks we should poisen the rivers or the children, poison our skies. i don't know a single christian that i know thinks anything other than it's our responsibility -- we will be held responsible on how we treat our children, wives, husband, and our neighbor, and how we treat our home. how we treat the gift that the lord gave to us and said you have dominion over this.

that requires responsibility. i have don't know anybody who thinks that. yet, that is the way we're made to look and feel. that we just want to trash the place. nothing could be further from the truth. >> the greens want to make us feel we're supposed to be servants of the earth. that is the opposite of what the bible says. in genesis it says god blessed adam and eve and be fruitful, multiply, subdue the earth and rule over it. over the fish and sea and birds and the air and the animals. we're supposed to rule the earth. not serve it. we're supposed to use it to make it increasingly fruitful. >> glenn: what is amazing is progressives think they are the only one that can rule with kindness and meekness and gentleness. yet, they never do. they think they are the only

ones. they say how dare you say you were supposed to rule over it. yes, benevolent rule. >> another important distinction, too. st. augustine pointed out when god said man was supposed to rule over the earth, he never said rule was supposed to rule over man. the progressives want to have themselves ruling over other people, forcing all the other people to be servants of the earth. god says all people are supposed to be rulers of the earth. >> glenn: we have so turned everything in a pyramid. we turned it all up side down. let me go here. how much time do we have in the break? we have enough time here. i want to talk about something i found. as i was preparing for 8-28. david you know, i prepared for a year reading as much as i can. i kept going over the moses story and the exodus, you know, the israelites and the time they spent, jeremiah and

all of it. i get to the god of ancient babylon. i see what happened in ancient babylon. the god was ball. b-a-l-l. this jumped out at me so much, it was like oh, my gosh. what it was, ancient babylon and the tower -- we'll do a show on this but i'll give you the highlights here. basically, the king says you know what? we're all going to be one. the first socialism -- >> totalitarianism. >> glenn: the god of ancient babylon, ball was the god of weather. and war. and commerce. in other words, the reason why is he who controls the weather, he who knows what is happening with the weather can make money because of the plantings and everything else.

and also can wage war. if you know what the weather will be like, you are not getting trapped in a snowstorm or anything else. i thought to myself, that is the same god. we are now worshipping or the environmentalists are now worshipping the ape chient god of babylon. the god of weather that i fe. they're saying worship the god of weather so there won't be war and there will be commerce and we'll all live. it's repeating itself from the very beginning. >> it really is, because their whole assumption behind all of the environmentalism is that the earth and particularly the climate system is very fragile. it's all unstable. for example, changing the proportion of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere from 27 -- .27 to .37 can cause

planet change. that doesn't make sense from what we read in the bible that tells us god made heavens and earth. when he was finished making it he looked at it and behold it was very good. if i were an architect and i designed the buildings so if you leaned on one wall, all the feedback mechanisms magnified the pressure of your weight on the wall and the building collapsed, they'd say it was not a wise architect, right? why are we saying the god that designed the creation made the climate system so that tiny change in atmospheric chemistry could send all of it to catastrophe? >> glenn: back in a second. that is assuming there is a god, as we all know of course. back in a minute. ???????????????

>> glenn: back now with cal beistner, cornwall alliance and david barton of wall builder. let there be stuff. turn it over to david. spooky dude george soros. you have to watch, i think it's episode six of the "star

wars" movies, where the emperor is like -- remember he is in the spooky chair and turns around? it's george soros. anyway, this is the latest from the tides foundation. this is for kids and synagogues and it will now be found in your churches. warning. i warned you about a year ago they are coming for your church and faith. they are doing it now, let there be stuff. make sure you keep this episode op d.v.r. and spread it around and tell your friends. nobody is talking about this. david, take us from here. >> talking about creation. talking about within the church and synagogue. there is creation. there is really two general views of creation together. the more traditional view is the one that most americans hold. 84% of americans to this day, recent polling believes that god made the heaven and the earth. despite all the stuff we talked for 40 years with evolution, 84% still believe

god is evolved. show you how the grid works. >> glenn: even people in my religion answer this different. i don't know how god creates. i believe god creates map, heaven and earth. i don't know how he created earth. it's not essential to my salvation. >> what is essential is that god did it. it's split between those believing through t herbeolisni or literal evolution. >> i don't think god is going get it done in one day! >> but the deal is he did it. it gives moral authority. if he made it, he can tell us how to operate is it. that's the judeo christian views. what happens is creation

occurs in a descending order. you start with the inadamant and then you get time, plants, animals. this is the apex of creation. everything moved to this. this is the top of what god created as the most important thing out there. the least important is inadamant -- >> playing devil's advocate but how arrogant you are to say you're at the top of the pyramid. >> this is the other side. what you articulated is a secular religious view. there is a secular religious view. traditional view, we look at "ten commandments" and say that is what religion says, i need to change my belief to conform to that. not kill, not steal, whatever. here they say i don't like the "ten commandments." i doesn't really mean murder -- >> it's progressive. >> they rewrite it as they want to. it's a religion. they will assemble in churches and other places. >> glenn: in california, i

mean, you go to churches, i actually went to a church back east where the pastor said you know i don't believe in god, but if there is a god we should serve him. >> in a church so. that that should be on the bulletin some place. would you put atheists in there, too? it is a religion. >> it comes from a -- it is a religion. we have court cases saying that it's a religion. supreme court cases is a what ever you believe strongly enough it affects your behavior, that's religion. that is a religion. in that religion what happens is the most important is the inadamant and least important is adamant. this is the opposite. this is at the top of the apex. everything centers around this and everything serves this and moves to this. the least important thing out there is man. that's why we can inconvenience man to any degree as long as we say this. it's reversed around. man is the apex and we're

going to make it convenient and improve his health. we'll try to improve his longevity. we focus to this and secular will focus at this. this is what we do. that curriculum, a religious curriculum puts man at the bottom, man is here to serve -- >> glenn: here is the thing here. if you are here, if you believe this, then you have these arguments. well, if i could save all men -- if i could save one child by killing all the bunny rabbits in the world, that is your argument there. but here, you have, do you remember the poster that we put up on the screen. put it up on the screen now. i pledge allegiance to the earth. >> yes. >> glenn: this, you don't have the opportunity to even have that question of would you be good person if you wiped out all the bunny rabbits. you couldn't do it. you're at the bottom of the food chain. >> right. you are at the bottom. everything, you are the one that is least important in this. there are some examples of that. you've got the poster.

i have others to show you. how that every one of these things are willing to inconvenience man. ask people in california about the little fish. >> glenn: i know. >> can they water their agricultural -- >> glenn: wait. not there. i lived in arizona. it's zero scape. you are bringing water in to arizona. you don't need -- a lot of people move there for alg algergies. stop bringing trees and things that aren't indigenous there. but in california you can't grow food because it inconveniences the fish. >> right. >> glenn: right. >> this is why, this is why you go to jail if you destroy an eagles egg. and you are protecting if you destroy a baby in its mother's womb. animals over people. >> glenn: i never thought of that. you do. if you destroy an eagle's egg you go to jail. >> that's -- >> higher up than man. birds are higher up than man.

in public policy, we'll project other things more than protect man. no question about it. everything has to serve the earth. but everything has more value than man does in the other policy. >> glenn: do you realize -- this just occurred to me. this is how i think. we have been putting this show together for a while. it just dawned on me. do you realize how much trouble you're in and i'm in now? they going to rip you apart more than you already have been, rip you apart. >> we're used to it. just to make sure, we're not just simply telling a broad idea about this. this is what they themselves think. david brower for example who founded friends of the earth said if he were to be wandering in the woods some day and found a grizzly bear attacking a child, he would probably defend the grizzly bear. after all, the forest is the bear's habitat. prince phillip of england -- >> glenn: comes back as -- >> said if i were reincarnated i'd come back as killer virus

to reduce human population to a sane level. >> glenn: back in just a minute.

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6:00 eastern. now back to glenn beck. ♪ ♪ >> glenn: i just wish we were a government funded entity so

we would haven't all the commercials because you just missed a fabulous conversation. we were talking about the story of stuff project from the tides foundation. spooky dude george soros. yes. he's now going into your churches. ask can your pastor, priest or rabbi, if you see anything like this go to your kids, run for your life. you are in the wrong church. unless you're environmentalist that worships guga or whoever it is now. let there be stuff. spirit filled response to consumer-crazed world. i want you to know we consume a lot. we are worshipping a different god. many of us. we are worshipping the god of stuff. the god of logo or a label. we don't need it. we don't need it. you know a society is screwed up when people will stand in line for the new cell phone

that they already have a cell phone, they just want that one. >> we are a little screwed up as a society. >> glenn: cal is here and david barton also with me and we're talking about this upside down world where we're now being taught in not just schools but now in churches and synagogues. any doubt in your mind that the progressive left is coming for the kill on religion? >> absolutely. absolutely. part of the reason is because traditional christian faith, and biblical faith in america has been the most resistant to the whole progressive agenda. >> glenn: yes. >> poll after poll has shown the people who have been most skeptical about things like oh catastrophic manmade global warming, or about other environmental hypes and scares have been those people who assert the greatest belief in the bible. >> glenn: right. that was a problem, you know this, david. it was the problem in the first real progressive

movement in the early 1900s. >> yep. >> glenn: it is the reason -- i had a progressive write to me saying this is such hogwash. god played no role in fleeing the slaves. really? >> not in his textbook. history is history. >> glenn: it led to founding of the nation. a great awakening. if they don't have god, if we can't control the churches, wilson, his father was a preacher, most everybody in the early progressive movement their father or somebody involved was a preacher. >> you bet. >> glenn: they hated it. right? a twisted version. they hated it. >> aclu headed by preacher and progressive movement. headed by a preacher of progressive movement. amazing how many of the organizations were headed by preachers. >> glenn: jim willis. today, he is an amazing

individual. >> who takes money from george soros. >> glenn: no? >> yes. >> glenn: it's like george soros is the head of the snake. i want to go to things you've seen in the paper. i want to show you this, america, this is practical application. stuff that is changing. because of what is growing legal consensus, which the supreme court is now recognizing, not the constitution. what does the rest of the world say? that is how we make our laws. >> going to the paradigm, man at the bottom and plant at the top and everything else above man. a great article right there. that article is out of nature magazine. >> glenn: "reason" magazine. >> right. how dare you insult clore ro phil kind. they it should be the guidelines that researchers have to avoid offending the

dignity of plants. if the projects are ruled as a front to plants, the fund willing be pulled. i don't think we do it for people. dignity -- >> you can't offend dignity, because plants are higher on the grid than people are? >> glenn: all fairness, this is one of the things that we talked about, the evil capitalistic commercials that make this program possible, it talks about how hybrids are bad. especially the hybrids that make the plant go sterile. sorry, there is no viagra for plants. i happen to agree with this. but for a different reason. i don't want -- i think the hybrids are good and bad. when you make them go sterile, which you have to do because dow has to maintain their patent, so they have to have you continue to buy the corn, so they have the money to be able to feed the world. but when we make all of our

corn, let's say, go sterile, if dow goes under, if something happens, we don't have natural corn anymore. it gives power to feed the world. to a select numbers of whoever holds the patent. >> here is the difference. your argument says i don't want to do that, because it may have dangerous consequences for humanity. the new constitution says we don't want to do that because it might insult the integrity of the corn or of the wheat. i haven't yet figured out -- no stack of corn or wheat ever said to me that was insulting! >> glenn: may i tell you something? if there aren't already, and i bet you know, if there aren't already there will be attorneys for plants. >> there already are. >> glenn: you bet. >> of course if you are a pantheist you think you and the rest of the universe are

the same thing anyway so your mind and mind of the plants are the same thing. which may be accurate with some of these greenies. >> glenn: tell me. tell me, america, that we don't need to learn correct principles? and restore common sense. back in to our place. tell me you can just unplug and don't worry about it. it's always been like this. no, it hasn't. no, it hasn't. at least not in the last couple hundred years here on this continent. back in a minute. oçóçzñw>ñnón]38uyvxmo@ñooo

>> glenn: all right. we're back with cal beidner from the cornwall alliance and david barton of wall builders. i want to spend one more segment on what is being done, the story of stuff. green faith project. it is going in to your churches. and your synagogues. watch for it carefully. some of it sounds great. some of it is, you know, it's true mixed with evil stuff. to be real frank with you. i want to spend a break here talking about how scientists see the world differently than those who believe in god and what it leads to. when we come back, i want to give you action plan. what do you do about it? what do you do?

>> i was called to testify on global warming. i'm an expert on that stuff. in that, i can look at scientific data and reach different conclusion than others. same data. it's explained with the clash of religion and science. 7% of scientists are convinced there is a god. their philosophy is there is no god so they get interpretation data. i can look at the same data and get different interpretation because i have a different paradigm on it. going back to the grid work where the earth is supreme in their view and man is least important. we have talk about it because at that time we have the kyoto protocol. they went to copenhagen and a 40-year plan. they say we need to spend $200 billion a year in america. we said for $200 billion a year, you can buy clean water and every third world nation in the world and save tens of millions of lives from disentary. they said no, we don't care

about lives, we have to save the planet. same money we can -- >> glenn: there is people, this environmental movement is really anti-human in many ways. the you look at that scale, if man is at the bottom, all you see is man hurting things. man is responsible for awful things, now, including hurricanes. >> ask michael vic what happens if you fight with dogs? but then as cal said we have babies who live through abortion. we won't do anything with them. but if you fight dogs and we will throw you in jail. >> in a religious hospital. that happened. whose religious hospital? jeremiah wright's religious hospital. >> that is the secular religious paradigm. they want to us live in view. their viewpoint says you are messing everything up.

you have to curtail yourself. our view point gives us confidence and we say no, that's not the way we live. >> glenn: again, i want to make sure it's clear, at least i believe we do screw things up. >> we do. >> glenn: but i believe in jefferson. man will get it right. >> right. >> good at solving problems. we make mistakes but we can solve them. give you a concrete example of how a scientist religious faith led him to interpret data in a different way from unbelievers. dr. royce spencer, climatologist, senior research scientist at university of alabama. good friend of mine as well. you know him. roy has been not only in charge of nasa's satellite remote temperature sensing program, but he has been specializing in cloud research for 20 years and more. he believes that god edesigned the climate system to be robust, self-regulating, self-correcting. the exact opposite is the assumption to hide behind

atheists who think it's an as a result of chance and fragile and will be knocked into catastrophe by nothing. >> right. >> as he looked at the data, he thought to himself i wonder if the assumption that clouds are a positive feedback on warming. in other words if you get warming at the earth's surface, the clouds make more warming. that assumption drives the catastrophe idea of the governmental pam and climate change and so on. i wonder if we see clouds do something different if i look at the data differently. that's what he did in a thumb of experiences and he found that clouds are a negative feedback. you get warming on the surface. clouds respond to reduce that warming. instead of increasing it. instead of getting a run-away feedback effect that leads to a tipping point and catastrophe, you get a self-regulating, it's like thermostat in your home. >> glenn: amazing thing. you never heard that, ever

heard that in the news or god forbid in a classroom. >> praise god for that. >> glenn: okay. back in a second on what you can do. what you should do. coming up. ñ÷

>> glenn: there is a real effort in our churches, in our country, classrooms everything, to change truth. i have been getting attacked as these gentlemen have for years, i've been attacked in the last year in particular on coming out against social justice. social justice is explained and understood by progressive s collective salvation, evil. i told you find out exactly what your church is teaching and why they're teaching and what are the roots of it? where is this? if social justice says go out and serve your fellow man, you personally make the choice to serve your fellow man, to serve god, that's great. that's usually not what it means. now, this is in our churches. this is from the tides foundation. it's the story of stuff.

let there be stuff. except this is all about god and not just how evil capitalism is and how evil america is. this is how evil we are because we're destroying god's creation. look for it in your churches and synagogues. it's now being pushed. if you find it, what do you do? >> we have alternative. cornwall alliance has just relees released a 12 lecture dvd series called resisting the green dragon that examines the world view, the theology, ethics, politics, economics, the science, the history, everything about the environmentalist movement and how it is intentionally infiltrating churches and intentionally targeting especially children. we show people what is a truly biblical understanding of this stuff at the same time we show what are the problems in this. >> glenn: where do you get it? >> resistingthegreendragon.com .

>> glenn: okay. the time for you to sit on the couch is a time to say that's -- it's over! i really believe, david, correct me if i'm wrong, that religion faith will lose as many people as they will gain. there is going to be a changing of chairs. >> yeah. >> glenn: people who have been doing the easy thing in religion, once our religion starts to stand up for liberty, you'll have the people say what? they're going to leave. we'll lose the members of our faith. but we will gain more than we lose. agree? >> i agree. >> that was the american revolution. the famous picture where he prayed a prayer about british. two years later, we lost several battles and he is a british traitor. he said washington, i think you are losing. he was chaplain of congress and goes to great britain and says i can't take the pressure. too much. it doesn't look good. then we end up winning. now he has to come back. he had to ask for forgiveness

and policy. that's where the church is now. >> glenn: so here is the thing, america. you have to know what you believe. know what is true. the most important thing in this is they say, you have to start gathering in groups. you have to start -- it is acorn. it's organizing for america, or whatever you want to call it in our churches. we must come together. it's why we started the black robe regimen, because we must start coming together. people of faith must root out the lies. and stand together in the truth. final thoughts in a minute. i got an egg [pop] i got gum a kazoo a candy necklace for forty cents, i got one of these [pop] a stamp

helium fabric softener [pop] lipstick two pills a day is what it takes to stay alive if you're hiv positive. those pills cost about forty cents a day.

>> glenn: my good friend david barton, i want him to leave you with an amazing thought from nature, the planet. here it is. >> one of the important things about traps, environmentalist traps, want to us follow in their traps and catch us. traps only work if you don't know what they look like. i live in the country and catch skunks because they don't foe what a trap looks like. we have to recognize their paradigm, if they try to make man subjective to the plate net o a