>> thank so much for joining us today. and also, newt gingrich,on kasich, and chris wallace, 16 days before the election. a lot of politics to talk about. >> that's right, we'll see you tomorrow on "fox & friends," join us for the after the show show. fox and friends.com and join us. >> only in washington is a 1 upon 3 trillion dollar hole cause for celebration. the white house suggesting the slight improvement in the deficit means we're moving in the right direction, the same white house that just admitted this wasn't true. >> shovel ready shovels-- shovel rode, we are seeing shovels hit the ground. >> brenda: that was then, this is now. president obama admitting there's no such thing as a shovel ready project. 862 billion dollars later how

can we get our money back. hi everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears, let's get to it. the bulls and bears this week, gary b smith, tobin smith. jonas max ferris, and eric welcome to everybody. and democrats are spending to create shovel ready jobs, no such thing. >> and unbelievable. will they go to no level to make it bigger. 862 billion dollars, shovel ready, shovel ready, shovel ready and turns out number one they didn't spend the money on shovel ready and number two, there is a lot of the money still unspent. the bad one here, president obama in an interview admitted he didn't think there were ever shovel ready projects. that is appalling. it's the liberals and the democrats who just want government bigger and bigger and that's the agenda and they'll do nothing-- absolutely no problems almost coming out and telling the american people, a bald faced

lie. >> brenda: and you're a democrat, is eric right, is that the agenda or is there something more to this? >> well, the only thing that president obama, talked about not having shovel ready projects is that we live in a nation with lots of bureaucracy and red tape, so, yes, when the money was there on a monday and the project didn't start on tuesday. that doesn't prove anything. reality one out of five construction workers do not have a job and the only thing that's going to turn this economy around is when they hear the word you're hired. the road to recover isn't going to be straight, isn't going to be smooth and you know what i'm happy about, my president is actually telling me the truth and being frank with the american. >> i'll go with that. >> it wasn't just democrats that were talking about shovel ready projects. john boehner was talking about shovel ready projects in a statement in june of 2009. not a democrat or republican, but it's taking us longer to

get us out of the mess we're in. >> brenda: when does it take longer when the construction is cheaper to hire, borrowing is cheaper, goods are cheaper, you go into home depot all the time. why can't we get the things going. >> the points you raced, it's a great time to be doing projects and restructuring projects because there's available labor and private industry and the government can borrow at a low rate. a good team for-- however it's not the best spending, it's very slow and the notion of a shovel ready new project is not a job creator because the shovel that's already ready to do it. they've done a lot of these, and they're not hiring people to do them. i think existing staff, existing contractors that already had jobs. what you want to do is hire somebody who doesn't have a job who is not ready to do any job and that's the m is take that obama is making, not doing like fdr grade hiring and putting people to work. >> and jonas, the bigger issue, is that the naivete of

our president to come out, is purely related to his lack of experience. if you had actually ever worked in business, i've financed billions of dollars in projects in 25 years, i guarantee you there was never a shovel ready on anything because it usually takes two to three years to get things through the system. that's how it works. to sit in front of the american people and say we had shovel ready says he was not ready to be president and no frickin' idea how we work. >> brenda: gary, more than a year now we've had the stimulus passed and we haven't seen many jobs created. was all of this a bust? >> absolutely. you know, jehmu point out that she is very happy that the president told the truth. unfortunately, it would have been nicer if he told the truth a year ago, brenda. look, they came in-- look, they said if we did not pass the stimulus bill, unemployment would rise over

8%, we passed the stimulus bill, it's been hovering close to 10%. that's number one. two, i disagree with toby on one point. i don't think it's that obama was being naive. because if you're about to go out to people and say, we have shovel ready projects, ready to go. you'd think he'd ask one of his 9,000 advisors or czars, do we really have shovel ready projects? and they would say, so someone is lying, they told them, yes, when there are none or they said no and he decided to lie. but i'll give him the benefit of the doubt and he just has stupid people working for him. so, we're left with the fact that where did the money go? it went to transfer payments. >> wait a second, wait a second. >> and nudge with the liberals, now he says, jehmu says, he now says now i'm telling the truth. i'm sorry after a year and 800 billion odd dollars we've squirrelled away and transfer payments and benefits, i can't give him the benefit of the

doubt. >> brenda: a lot of money was spent for unemployment and the rest. it didn't all go for infrastructure. should it have. the first time the president when he was not in a year yet. the if first time said shfl ready he came out of the meeting with the governors. >> come on. >> and this is not something that you can say, it's just a democrat or republican problem. both democrats and republicans are-- >> hold on, hold on one seconds. >> guys. >> the reality is construction workers out there still need jobs, so we need to have that spending out there to give them the jobs. >> brenda: first he tells us there are no shovel ready jobs, eric, and then he wants to spend more money. >> bingo. >> that's it, 50 billion more, he said by the way we need infrastructure jobs so we need 50 billion more. there's 325 billion from the original shovel ready, whatever you want to call it, that we haven't spent. how about spending 50 from that on shovel ready, whatever shovel ready. >> there aren't.

>> there aren't any, exactly. so we don't spend another thing and give back that you haven't spent. >> and from a pure economic standpoint. from the perspective of how you would actually make this work, there is no question we have 2 trillion dollars worth of projects we need in the united states. if we took 50 billion dollars of private capital, in other words, investor money, government guarantees them the loans so we can put together the 500 billion, 1 trillion dollar bank, where we actually have the private sector finance businesses and infrastructure that work that was financial, sign me up. i would be on that in a second. unfortunately, the approach they're taking is not to let the private industry do it, it's all going to be public and that doesn't work. >> why do we need more money if there are no jobs and if it hasn't helped bring down the unemployment rate? >> because there are projects out there. they just are not going to happen because of the spending is approved on a monday and then expect for those jobs to be in place by tuesday. >> brenda: we're talking a year later. >> here is the reality. when he came into office, we

had lost 800,000 jobs. for the last nine months we've seen jobs growing in the private sector and yes, it's not happening as quickly as possible, they're not snapping our fingers and making that change happen overnight, but there are construction projects out there. >> and they're in construction sector. >> and we have construction workers out of jobs and they need to hear the two words that they're hired. >> brenda: that's going to have to be the last word. all right. coming up. >> and been inside a wal-mart. >> of course i have. >> no, you haven't. >> a lot of times. >> neil an imus going at it. it was so outrageous, jack welch came here. >> and pension funds face a half trillion dollar hole. are they trying to secure another taxpayer bailout? . set it in motion... and it goes out into the world like fuel for the economy. one opportunity leading to another...

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>> hi, welcome to america's news headquarters, i'm jamie

colby. a dangerous rescue mission is underway in china at this hour, rescuers trying to free 17 trapped miners after an explosion in a coal mine in central china. the blast killing at least 20 other miners. dozens of rescue crews at the scene right now, but they're facing dangerous levels of gas and falling coal inside that damaged mine. and president obama about to take off from massachusetts today. in a big campaign push for the governor's race there. democratic incumbent devalue-- duval patrick over baker. he fumbled on questions about health care and baker scored promising immediate reform and you'll want to check out chris wallace at noon eastern, american's election headquarters, only here on fox. i'm jamie colby. >> brenda: coincidence? the same week unions pump up their political donations to save democrats' jobs, a

northwestern study reveals city and county government pensions are underfunded by a half trillion dollars. now, that's on top of the 3 trillion state pensions needed. gary b, you say there's a connection. >> and brenda, there's definitely a connection, it's funny, obama keeps talking about the wall street fat cats. it really should be the public employee fat cats and the reason they want to do this, they want to protect their golden pot out there. their golden nest egg. here is what i mean. for example, there was a police officer in delray beach, florida, retired, made $90,000 a year, retired at age 42. you know what he gets? he gets $65,000 a year for life, full medical and by the way, the 65,000 is indexed to inflation. you know what the average public employee in new york city makes? $107,000. you know how many public employees there are in new york city, 281,000.

you can see right there, working in the public sector now is a-- is the golden goose right now. you can get so much money and when you retire, as evidenced by the-- as the new york, as the officer in florida, you get enormous benefits. that's why these programs are broke, as the market went down. that's why it's going to be us sitting here around this table and in d.c. that there are going to have to foot the bill because they're going to have to try to get the pensions paid for by the taxpayer. >> and isn't this just business as usual. democrats give money to people they think will help with their policies and republicans do just the same? >> yeah, i don't-- everybody giving money to the party they think is going to benefit them and i think the unions who do support the democrats more are short sighted than this, that pension scandals, so to say, is a problem, but it's 20 years out you're talking about and the pensions are about 75% funded. it's not like a corporation where immediately you can't make the payment and people in the government has to step in

with the insurance fund they have. you're talking about benefit cuts and/or a bailout, much, much further down the road than any current union boss cares about. >> brenda: i don't know, a lot of states are having a lot of trouble, to bey right now. >> jonas, i don't know where you get the number. from the administration association, if you add this all up the person at home, family at home would probably be on the hook, as a taxpayer, for about $25,000 per household, but here is a little strange thing. in the united states only about 50% of the people don't pay a single dime in taxes. and now make that 50,000 to the actual people who pay taxes and it's much more than 75% underfunded because the assumptions that the union made with an 8% all encompassing return for the rest-- and haven't made 8%-- >> 75% of their benefits are there and a huge pool of money, what they've been promised is underfunded, if, again, only because they're using assumptions on low interest rates and now in fact the treasury, did not happen if the stock market and the bond markets are fund funded

and corporations are underfunded by hundreds of billions of dollars. >> no question, but they're not contributing money, to the politicians at this point for union rules. the union deal, if the union thinks there's a big problem, why doesn't the union bail them out. >> brenda: well, pension costs are soaring. is cutbacks an option or is a bailout the only one that you can see? >> i don't think that a bailout is the only option here, but i do have a take a little bit of offense with gary pulling out of this one example of this one pension worker. my parents both government workers, paid their taxes, health care, most ever their entire lives and i'm sorry, the pensions that is coming to them, they deserve to get and i think there are way stories. >> the private employees get about a third of what the public employees get in terms of pensions, much, much less in the private--

>> absolutely right and by the way, jonas is an example of the corporate pension situation, if they can't pay, they don't go to the taxpayer and say, by the way, taxpayer, you have to pick up the balance, we can't take care of. >> and the government-- but let me talk to jehmu for a second. i had two parents that worked two jobs, neither one of them had a pension and guess what, we made it happen. we made it work. we lived, we survived. it's not a situation where, you're not entitled to a pension. and we shouldn't have to be on the hook if the government can't figure out how the index pension toss what's really going on in the economy not just an automatic increase of 3, 5 or 8%. >> the unions are doing what they're going to-- what's necessary to protect the pensions of the working families that have contributed to this economy for their entire working career and i think that's a good thing for the economy and i think that's a good thing for the american people. >> brenda: i'm sorry that's got to be the last word, guys, and thank you very much to jehmu, it was nice to have you

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get it free while supplies last. call the number on your screen to get your free video, brochure and your free hoveround collapsible grabber. call the number on your screen. >> coming up. big business still hurting. consumers still hurting and someone here says the economy

>> two big signs this week, our economy might be stuck in a 10-year slump. more big companies and posting weak earnings and the little guy, the consumer, and toby you say it's more proof we're in a lost decade. what does it mean. >> it's simple. the history showed when you

survive the deep financial blowups, it takes about ten years to work off the debt, and you know, the good news here is that for us to get back to the gdp we had at the peak of 2007, 20% of that growth income was false, homes we didn't need. >> a bubble. >> and the good news when we get to that level, it will be based on stuff that actually works and we will be a stronger country, but it's going to take a decade to make it happen. >> what else does it take, gary? what's the one thing we need to do so that this decade is not lost? >> well, two words, brenda, less government. a lot less government. in fact, to the point where i think we are going to have to dramatically rethink the role of government. you know, brenda, there's been study after study after study, showing the more the government consumes the gdp, bigger percentage, the bigger inhibitor on growth throughout the economy. i think you're seeing that right now. government has grown so big

right now, of course, you know, it started growing big under bush and even preceding bush and it of course, magnified as nomically under obama and i think that's inhibiting, look, you've seen it with health care, in the financial sector, we've just become this big slog. trying to get through the red tape. it's killing us. if toby is right and it's ten years normally with this kind of growth i think we're talking 20 years. >> well, that's the whole concept of crowding out. but, jonas, i mean, we have business cycles, we have booms, we have busts. and maybe this is just a bust that will become a boom at some time. >> yeah, america's not a country you want to be a long-term bear on ever. >> and i tell you, every time it looks like we're go to have a lost decade and 1980, we're about to have a lost decade and we sure did. and 1990 didn't look good and the bottom line, we've been growing the size of the government since the depression a lot and it stinks, i'll admit that.

it's not like the soviet union or cuba, you can't get rich. this is a country that gets retch and people are becoming billionaires, faster and faster and faster, and easy access to capital and the markets, you can start a business and go public, in a couple of years. every year we get to the case where it's faster and that's going to keep the country growing. and unless they confiscate everything and you can't have private ownership, we're always going to do well in the long haul and this is part of that decade. >> are we getting close to that though, eric? >> w >>. yes, you can get rich in this country quicker it you're employed by the government and you're going to get richer going in the government than the facebook founder-- >> that's one guy. >> and hold on. >> going to be billionaires all the time and the bottom line is, government is the only people-- government hiring is up 2% while the rest of the country hiring is down 7% since the recession started.

please don't tell me that the government isn't sucking money and funds from the economy into the private-- away from the private sector into the government sector, it's awful, that's got to change. by the way, guess who is trying to make it change? the tea party. >> well, look it, the changes that you've had-- you look at 1990, we had a brand new, brand new internet so get a new internet i'll be on your side. >> brenda: there we go, thanks, guys. 33 miracle miners captivating the world and now they inspire one miracle spot ready to cash in a huge profit. come on. td ameritrade introduces commission-free etfs with a difference-- more choice. over a hundred etfs.... ...chosen by the unbiased experts at morningstar associates. let me pick what works for me. for me. for me. the etf market center at td ameritrade. before investing, carefully consider the fund's investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses. contact td ameritrade for a prospectus containing this and other information. read it carefully before investing.

>> predictions? gary b in the hot seat. >> brenda, forget all of this talk about, yahoo!. keep your eye focused on the ball and that's google. that continues to be the stock to watch. up 30% in one year. >> brenda: 600 bucks already, jonas, you like it. >> the ipo, it was lower than that and also negative on the economy and 600 out of google,

i don't know. >> tobin, your prediction. >> look it the real deal is apple. obviously i've been recommending it since we started show i think. i think it's a $500 stock because if you look at network they've built. 160 million and 500 million subscribers and that's worth another 200 million dollars. >> brenda: a lot of money, people made a lot of money off your calls on this, but gary b. do you like it? >> you cannot fight the momentum on the stock, i would not want to get in the way. yeah, i kind of like it. >> brenda: jonas your prediction. >> new york city is going to sell you cars, zip cars, good for the parking industry, park the zip cars and abn-- >> toby. >> he parked his brain in a fast place. as the rates go up, people are not using parking, you bonehead. >> cars have to be parked. >> brenda: eric, your prediction. >> you know the chilean miners, if the mine was-- >> nice glasses, eric. co