>> how do you know there's incredible potential for it to go up 50%? if that were well known, it would already have ge up 50%. i mean, i love -- >> what did you say when he mentioned that one, the 80% gain. >> why don't you mention my rqi? >> oh. all right. everybody, everybody, group hug, group hug. thanks, guys. slashing the nation's debt by slashing popular tax breaks. the president's debt commission pushing to toss out some but not all of them. final tax credits. you want to cut down our debt and juice up the economy? permanently ban all tax breaks. will it work? hi, everybody. welcome to "forbes on fox". here today, rich carlguard, victoria barrett, elizabeth mcdonald. clinton hardy, and welcome back,

dennis. we'll hear from him in just a moment. great to have you back with us. ♪[music] >> rich, first to you. get rid of all the tax breaks, right? >> yeah. this economy needs tough love. getting rid of the tax breaks would add simplicity, clarity. you talk to any business person out there or investor. what they're most worried about is the lack of clarity going forward, and our complex tax code contributes to that. it's not enough. you've also got to lower the income tax rate, a flat tax rate, a 15 to 20% combined with eliminating the writeoffs would be the perfect prescription for this economy. it would boom. >> you've always ed tour de edid against corporate tax breaks for the rich, isn't it time to finally do that? >> yeah, it is, but you know, it's too radical to get rid of it all. i mean, it is fun and i think it's useful to talk about big solutions like the flat tax, but there's always a well known

solution to all human problems, neat, plausible, and totally wrong. you've got to keep some. that would include things like the earned income credit for working families. it means most working families making less than $30,000 a year wouldn't pay any income tax at all. it makes it progressive and fair. >> you've spent a good part of your career going over the 100,000 page tax document that we all have to file through. we neede needed accountant to dr taxes. >> it's 15 times the size of the king james bible. it would drain the swamp of corruption in d.c. where lobbyists live and breathe. to downsize the tax code would unlock a lot of economic activity in the country. no surprise the two top tax writing committees in congress get the most in political donations. they've turned the tax code into a tangleled barbed wire that hus americans every day. >> it would be easier for all of us, wouldn't it? >> sure, david. if everybody put down the

doughnut, we'd probably have a healthier country. some things just aren't true in the real world. rich talks about how businessmen would love to get he rid of the cudz. that's kind of the problem. there are a few standards where there are some good ones. a company discovers a chemical it produced years ago turns out to be toxic to the groundwater. you want it out there of there, you give them an incentive. we want to save energy, we give people incentive to insulate their houses. there are incentives you put in for people's behavior. you don't declare an ideology. >> wouldn't it be nice just to have taxes pay for government, period and not try to direct people's behavior with our tax code? >> well, yes. clinton, you brought up old leaky houses. i happened to have bought one this year and found out it was very leaky. if you sprayed it with a hose, water went inside the house, so this week i replaced my windows. great.

wonderful improvement. i'm going to get a check from uncle sam at the end of the year. i replaced my windows because i needed to and i was looking at a huge heating bill this winter, not because i was going to get the check. i guess i'll take the check. thank you, taxpayers. this isn't how the system is supposed to work. people buy homes, have babies, because it makes sense for their lives, not because they get a check. we fund billions in accounting dollars going to professiona prs to make it happen. >> hold on a second. >> before she answers that question, i've got to go to dennis because he's literally turning blue. his knuckles are white. he's holding on. go ahead. go for it, dennis glssments i don'.>> i don't think it's a biy choice, all tax breaks or none. i think the problem in the past is we've granted tax breaks for some bad purposes. i think the home tax breaks helps fuel the entire housing bubble. you can't afford to eliminate around. keep around the good ones like the r&d tax credit. if we got rid of all of them, we

spent 50 billion to bail out the car industry or more, 800,000 jobs. there's got to be a million accountants and lawyers make a lot of money getting through the tax code. the other thing is if you take away all breaks, you take away hope. the detingl deepi'm going to gem if i'm smart enough and creative enough. >> is he crazy? >> we saw, for example, tax credits in the stimulus package that went for things like electric golf carts, tax credits to buy vitamins. it's ridiculous. lawmakers use it for their own pet projects and to pay back political donors. it is corrupt and it's immoral. >> the government shouldn't pick >> the government shouldn't pick the winners and losers in an economy. tax credits allow them to do that year after year. following your logic we should more complicated so we all have to hire more accountants and lawyers and we can create jobs that way, right? >> i think that goal already has

been apreefd achieved, guys. they're already doing that. >> rich, what about just holding onto that mortgage interest deduction thing which most >> what before the mortgage interest kinds of thing those with mortgages still love. >> if we got rid of the home interest. you open the door for one, you open the door for many. for instance, why do we have a tax break for the mohair industry? it's existed since world war ii. the makers of bomber jackets for pilots got it in, and these things go on forever. if you want to get rid of lobbyists, and i've heard clinton complain bitterly about lobbyists on past shows, the whole reason they exist is because -- >> we've also heard you complain time and again and i agree with you on this about all those tax breaks for the oil companies. >> sure. there is corruption in the system. there is no doubt about it. my point is only that an ideology that is 100% in one

direction tends not to work in politics. you throw it down. i mean, you already see -- people are adjusting their position. that's the normal give and take. >> look. this is not ideology. 20 nations, for example, have adopted the flat tax, and actually if you do what the debt commission is talking about, collapsing the corporate rate down to 26%, that will unlock economic activity. >> why is the debt commission talking about tax rates. >> the upper brackets tend to take a lot of deductions and make use of that. >> go ahead. >> i've got to admit something. i think i'm ready to switch sides. >> that's a first. >> within one segment a person switches sides. go ahead. >> i think rich has convinced me. i think we need to have a couple-year, maybe tax every dollar above $30,000. i know rich well enough, he's a very bright guy. he's a very well meaning guy. i think he would be pretty practical if we put him in charge of the irs.

hope you like your new job, man. >> maybe we should put rich in charge of the show. you changed his mind in a heartbeat. >> actually, you could have a flat tax and exempt the first 30 or 40,000. that would be entirely fair. >> there you go. >> you're steering policy and making exceptions. >> no, no, no. >> i just want to point out this debate itself is a very dangerous thing because the one thing i guarantee you is if washington starts debating whether to eliminate all tax breaks to a flat tax, a lower tax. >> i think this debate is healthy. if rich was able to convince citsteffan in one segment. >>segment. , you'll get another chance. that is one political party's reaction to the plan to fix social security. it's a big reason the gang says we should get rid of social security all together. that's coming up. plus, president obama in

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hi, everyone, live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. trying to determine a winner in the alaska senate race, still. the ballot counting is expected to last through the weekend. according to the latest numbers, republican incumbent lisa murkowski got 90% of the write in votes and is leading the race over tea party favorite joe miller. his campaign has filed a lawsuit saying it wants to inspect and count all the ballots. paying tribute to a true hero in florida this morning. take a look. a navy missile destroyer named for medal of honor recipient jason done ham i dunham is commissioned. he was killed in 2004 after throwing himself on a grenade to protect other members of his

brigade. president bush presented his parents with the medal of honor back in 2007. i'll see you al at 1 p.m. easten at america's news headquarters. we go to "forbes on fox". president obama an in japan today wrapping up the trip to asha. he's meeting with leaders and looking for ways to boost the economy. his comments saying, quote, we want china to succeed and prosper, it's good for the united states, has dennis neil saying it's another defeatist message that's bad for the united states. how so, dennis? >> overall, while i like the rise of china because i think it gives us a cheap supplier of really inexpensive goods and gives us a great market to sell stuff as they grow up, overall obama is an apologist for america. i believe america is the number one nation on work. obama has literally said on the record no, no, we're not that special. we're no more important than any

other nation. oh, yes, we are, and we're better, and for all of our flaws, we work harder than anyone else to fix them. i think it's time to actually start celebrating america for leading the world again. >> victoria, we used to call it american exceptionalism. shouldn't we go back to that goal? >> you know, if you look at obama's words this week, he basically says america is the great superpower of the world, but we've got competition, and that's true. i mean, if you look at our relationship with china, it is such a two-way street. they're sending us cheap try sickles which is fabulous, but most importantly, we give them paper in return, paper that says yeah, we'll get you back later. we need china. they own 20% of our debt, so it's -- we need them greatly. >> well, rich, it is a double edged sword, isn't it? >> you know, the phrase win-win? john f. kennedy was win-win. he was a super american patriot,

promoted growth in the economy, while celebrating the rise of post war germany. ronalronald reagan was win-win, promoted the rise of japan. obama is lose-lose. "new york times" headlines friday, world rejects economic plan. this is ten days after the american people rejected obama's economic plan. you know, we need to get to growth for everybody. >> so mike, you don't necessarily want to see other countries fail. if china does great, that's fine, but we want to put ourselves first, right? >> well, there are very few things that i agree with president obama on when it comes to economics, but that particular statement i agree with. look. foreign companies in this country employ 5.3 million people. it's a good thing. the s&p 500 generates 48% of its sales from outside the united states. we need more free trade. if president obama is going to move in the direction of free

trade and follow his own statement, david, that's a very positive thing for the u.s. economy. >> where do you come down on this? >> my problem with president obama is not what he's saying because i think he's speaking for the united states. what he's doing is acting like a defeatist. i'll be back in a few. we need to create more and more debt and that's the only way we're going to get out of our trap is digging the hole deeper. that's the way you somehow get out of it. i think that's crazy. what he should be doing is what many of our presidents have done in the past to make america a great country which is we're going to be strong, we need a strong currency. we believe we need to compete, not that we have to become sort of the wal-mart country of the world here. that i don't think is -- >> do you have any problem with that? >> american exceptionalism was we will not be tripped by history. we believe in democratic capitalism. these things will help us renew and grow. it was a great idea, and guess

what? we exported it. the rest of the world picked up on it. we're all better off for t. and now we've got to compete with people like that. that's the other part of american exceptionalism. we'll dig in and fight. i don't think we declare ourselves great vick tors victo. i think obama is doing a good job going to india, indonesia, korean, japan, talking to the countries that surround china about how you can work with it, live with it, also contain it. >> the fact is that sometimes we do have to fight for things. we had to fight to explore the wilderness. we had to fight to get to our position to win world war ii. maybe we have to roll up our sleeves and start fighting. >> sometimes, like it or not, you have to tick other people off. that's what america is going to have to do, and you've got to be open about it and transparent. >> that explains the hair. >> what bothers me about a lot of policies lately is they seem to be done more from weakness and fear.

all they do is list tariffs on u.s. goods going into colombia and they can't pass that. >> did sarah palin just blow out on the candles on the nanny state? we debate, you decide. >> who should be making the decisions what she eats? should it be government or should it be the parents? it should be the parents. yellowbook has always been crucial to your business,

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pennsylvania schools may soon have their own cook why monsters.

let's pass it along and make sure everyone gets a piece. >> last time i didn't receive a piece, and i was told --

>> just pass. just pass. that's what the pennsylvania board of education may tell schools to do in what's being billed as a plan to keep kids healthy. school birthdays could get consolidated into just one a month. it's a party pooper of a plan that sara sarah palin doesn't le one bit. you don't like it either, do you? >> no. let them eat cake, i say. what's next? they're going to consider banning candy on halloween? the probably is not eating cake. the problem is eating too much cake coupled with video games. these kids deserve to have their own birthday party at school. >> i lak like the enthusiasm. >> we've got two issues here. the welfare as we know it in this country right now is all the things we're giving kids in schools. we're giving them breakfast, lunch, dinner, after care, precare, all thi this stuff. that is a nanny state. when with have a diabetes

epidemic and obesity epidemic and send kids to school and say it's okay to gorge themselves day in and day out on sweets is insane. >> the nanny state is saying we have an epidemic in everything. it's sugar, thisrs this, that. >> some schools banned peanut butter. why? 50,000 kids are allergic to peebt butter. i say teach your kid, if he's allergic to peanut butter, teach him to avoid it. the dropout rate in american schools is over 30%, but we're worried about cupcakes and cake. >> yeah. lookit. let's be clear. these are recommendations, they're not rules. the danger is they could become recommendations. i can't stand the nanny state. i hated when jimmy carter was saying eat your peas and take my policy with it. it's so annoying. i tend to agree with neil. add is a problem because of sugar, obesity, diabetes is a problem because of sugar. let the parents decide.

it's up to the parents, not the government and not the schools. >> let the parents decide. >> i agree. the only way to do that is take more power away from washington, away from the states, give it to the local level. everything i've ever read about education really says the one thing that always stands out is the more parental involvement you have rnghts th, the, th thes are. >> isn't really that the point that sarah palin was making, that the fact that we are the ones who should decide what's best or our kids? >> we shoo. just like in milwaukee. the pairns said we're sick of these schools. they asked for vouchers. >> hold on a second. you were saying they were right to take these parties away from the kids. i think it's our right to decide whether the kids have parties. >> i'm saying is the parents should say look, we don't want our kids eating like this and the parents should say we insist we have healthy choices in the school. of course the parents should be involved. >> you're a responsible parent.

you know what's best for your kid, right? >> yeah. i know what's best. >> although that's a scary thought, i must admit, looking at you right now. >> some viewers must be saying why are we debating cupcakes? this is about more than that. in new york city they now have a plan to ban salt from restaurant kitchens. how about you decide whether you want salt. >> all right, folks. up next, google is not the only one giving a 10% raise. get the stocks that give you a quick profit just in time for the holidays. check out the cost of freedom web sie.. while you're there, take our new poll. the debt commission recommends that congress ban earmarked pork projects. are they right?

google announcing a 10% raise for all employees beginning in january. now informers have the stock picks that could jump 10

percent. home improvement company lowe's. >> i'm high on lowe's. i think the government is trying to put money in people's pockets. their earnings are rising. they're sending out via facebook all kinds of discounts for last friday. >> how can you beat i'm high on lowe's? >> that's a smart idea. just a little before its time. it's an expensive stock. wal-mart and best buy are cheaper. i'd get those instead. >> the credit card company visa. why do you like it? >> this is basically the best money making machine in history. they'll have a very christmas no matter who does well. >> denins, yo dennis, i'm not af visa. customers are cutting debt. >> disney hit a 12 month high. >> the best single brand of entertainment media and assets in the world. the company keeps a hard, hard eye on costs. >> basically the price action 0 this one and the stock is about as sleepy as one of snow whi's