they'rtheir interactive unit han a lag ger. >> oil and gas, you like apache? i love apache. it could hit 130. we're seeing the oil production at that company up by about 35%. they are the biggest u.s. oil and gas production. >> it's at a 52 week high. officers and directors are shellinsellingshares. the business block continues now. have a wonderful weekend. more democrats bashing it and still no wave of republicans praising it. neither side of the aisle showing much love for the debt commission's tough love fix for social security. now someone says d.c.'s reaction is exactly why we need to scrap social security all together. hi, everybody. welcome to cash em in crew. wayne rogers, jonathan, tracy burns along with charlie from the fox business network and julian epstein.

welcome, everybody. the debt panel recommending raising the retirement age by one year in 2050 and then by another year in 2075, plus lowering the cost of living increase in social security benefits. no rush at all to support it in washington. jonathan, you say what? >> well, liz, it's obvious now is the time to scrap social security or at least the very bare minimum begin to transition out of it and go back to what we had before 1935 which was a private system where people actually saved for themselves. it isn't practical, it is importland moral, andimmoral, ar collapse. we spend more as a percentage on social security than we do on defense. that's actually in the constitution. there is no safety in the safety net. you just rattled off a whole long list of supposed benefits that are being either restricted or taken away. it's time to put this puppy to bed and trern to return to a pe

capital system. >> does d.c. ever fix this or do you believe we should scrap it all together? can we do something like that? >> i don't think it matters what we think, quote unquote. this is a political reality. the congress does not have the courage to even get an adjustment to something that's going to be 20 years later. it ought to be done immediately. it should be stretched out. that's the only way to start this process because there's no political courage in the congress to face it. jonathan, i mean, with all due respect to you, you're living in hoo-hoo land if you think they're going to do something like that. there's no way in the world they'll scrap t you might as well start by trying to adjust it. >> we weren't living in hoo-hoo land in 1925. we took it as a given that we have an entitlement state in this country. >> h osoo-hoo land, i want to go

there. this thing is bloated and it's getting worse. >> you put tens of millions of senior into poverty immediately if you did that. nobody who studied this seriously thinks you should scrap social security. you should fix it. i think adjusting the age, the retirement age, i think changing the cola benefits and i think means testing would make some sense. this is the easy problem to fix. soarm security isocial securityy entitlement to fix. the tough entitlement to fix is medicaid and medicare. if we can't get them to fix the easy problem, it will be tougher to get the will to fix a tougher problem. >> if it's so easy to fix, julian, then how do we say reraise the retirement age to 69 in 2075. dear god? my brilliant little children will invent some little pill that makes us live to 200 by then. we're going to be living so much longer. to say 69, it's a woosy way out. you're not approaching the

problem at all. >> charlie, julie makes an interesting -- julian makes an interesting point. a lot of elderly depend on this. 40% of their income comes from social security. if we at least meter it out and squeeze it down moment by moment, would that at least help? >> the problem, though, is we don't know exactly how big the cost is going to be in the future because as tracy said, people are living longer. this could be an entitlement that goes out of control where sociasocial security starts to k like california where you basically have a state that's imploding, going close to bankruptcy, but politically there's no way they're touching this thing. maybe around the edges. >> jonathan, what do you say when somebody says to you wait a minute, this is a critical economic life line for retired people. >> well, they love entitlements because it keeps you dent on the government. >> i don't see you fighting the fight, jonathan. >> we see time and time again there's no safety in the safety net. we talk about social security as

helping people. what type of benefit is it when every career bureaucrats decide just what benefit you get? social security tax started at 1%. it's now over 6%. the bills get bigger and bigger and bigger. it's headed for collapse, whether it's in means testing, whether it's in higher taxes. it's not a sustainable system. >> that's absolutely false. we've seen study after study with smart changes like changing the retirement age, like means testing. >> that's the whole point, julian. >> would you let me finish the point, jonathan? >> yeah. >> we can put social security on the path to solvency very easily. >> as opposed to actually fending for yourself and having your own retirement fund. jonathan, the problem here is the politics. if democrats do this, republicans would use it as a club against them in the next election. if republicans try to support it, democrats would lea use it a club against them in the next

election. >> don't you think there's some sort of political impetus right now to change some of these programs? if there's ever a point where the voters have voted to basically reign in the size of government, i mean, it's now unless you didn't see the election i just saw. >> let me see it differently, charles. i don't think there's the political will to do this until we get the economy going back again. i think neither political party has a plan to get it going. >> hold on. let's let wayne get in here. >> either party doesn't -- neither party has a plan to get us to 5 or 6% 6% unemployment. >> wait a second. wayne, go ahead. >> i think julian is absolutely right. there is no political will to do this. republicans and democrats are going to disagree about it. the only way we can possibly try to start doing there is to chip around the edges. you could index this to the --

to the fact of longevity in our lives. there are all kinds of ways to make this palatable. you've got to face political reality and realize that congress is not going to do what you want, jonathan. they're going to do what they want. the only way to do this is by stelg to the people. >> i want to pose this question to tracy. how about private advertising the system in that has been attempted in the past. >> how about actually let's move toward that. wayne, here's my question to you. why not phase it out? look, anyone my age is not depending on that social security check, so let's phase it out and let's take care of our el ders. let them have the remaining pot and then let's go private. my generation and on is not expecting a check from the government. >> you guys are living in a dream world. i mean, university living in a - you're living in a dream world seriously. >> let me let wayne respond to that and then jonathan. >> the answer to that question, tracy, is that's right.

we could phase it. you've got to start somewhere. the ideas the commission recommended is not a bad idea at all if you can get the democrats and republicans to agree to something, anything. >> jonathan, if we were to private advertisize it, wouldn'a bunch of bernie madoffs? >> i think you would see a massive booms because of the millions we send to washing to n would be invested in productive enterprises. social security isn't an account. it's not like a brokerage account with your name on it. you don't know anything. all you have is the promise that future generations would be looted on your behalf like you're being looted on behalf of senior citizens. >> anybody who watched the stock market collapse -- >> all right, gang. i know it's a hot topic and we'll continue to focus on that in the future. in the meantime, social security not the only debt commission plan that's raising eyebrows. they also want to pump up taxes at the pump. which way will that drive our economy. and ... the white house

handing out more waivers from the health care law. now more than 100 companies and unions are exempt. and yet again, the news buried in the health and human services site. why the secrecy? why someone here says the administration just admitted the law is a job killer.

the number of companies and unions getting a pass from the health care mandate suddenly shooting up. the white house now handing out 111 waivers, up from 33 in less than a month. in fact, we've got the list here, but no press release went out on this one. yet again, the news is buried on the health and human services website. it takes six separate clicks to find it, and wayne, you think this is job killer? >> it definitely proves this is a job killer. when you put the power in the hands of the administration and a bureaucracy that decides who is going to obey the law and who

isn't going to identif identify, what they've done, obviously they cannot create jobs with this. they know this is a job killer, and they've admitted it. this is prime fascia admission this is a failure. >> these companies maybe have the smartest lawyers, the loudest voices. etna, mcdon alsdza edna, mcdona. >> it was created in 3 minutes, shot it out there. realize everything is wrong with it. the little guy affected the most doesn't have the money and the corporate attorneys to go back to the government and fight for it. they're not on the list, liz. we have big companies getting away with things, and the little guys are getting hurt yet again. >> julian, the waiver. it is a little disturbing because that must mean that somehow some companies fought a little smarter and better to get exempt from a certain portion of

this health care law. >> well, it doesn't surprise me in this economy that some companies are looking for waivers. remember, we got 30 million people who didn't have health insurance. we got that. we cut the deficit by a trillion dollars. 96% of all businesses are exempt from any of the mandates. for the four% of businesses that have a mandate. they get all kinds of tax benefits and will benefit from the exchanges. the cbo said while premiums have been increasing for businesses as 18%, as a result of this, premiums will go down 1 to 4% when the law kicks in. there's no surprise to me that some companies are looking for waivers for the first couple years, but the business round table supported this bill. to simply point to the fatle as some waivers -- to the facts as some waivers is bad logic. >> watch the list grow. >> you know, you have the smartest companies with the best lobbyists who understand how to pull the levers of big government. they understand it.

this is always the case. it's always the big companies that are able to figure out ways around laws and basically gain the system while everybody else gets screwed. by the way, it would be nice if they exempted everybody. >> there are some little companies on here of there's a boat company with a couple of employees. you look at that and say, jonathan, what kind of a law is that? >> what kind of a law is it? talk about corporate cronyism where they pass law and six months after you've got a list of 100 plus companies who don't have to abide by the law? the law is supposed to protect your individual rights not force you to pay for someone else. >> julian, what do you think about that? >> look. you can keep complaining about it. you can look for the fly in the ointment in all of these things. in the statute there were these provisions for temporary waivers. it doesn't mean overall that the health care bill won't work well. >> julian, it's not -- >> this law was supposed to be

good for businesses. all these businesses and some of these are very big, pretty big companies. if they're looking to get out of it, it's obviously not good for business. >> they're looking for temporary waivers, charles, because -- >> wait a second. >> the mandates are hurting the business. >> the business round table supported the bill, the american medical association supported the bill, aarp supported the bill. >> wayne, dues anythin do you sn what scriewlan said? at some point down the line people will get preventive care and we won't be saddled with really, really sick people on the door step of an emergency room? >> i don't think this is a question of the practicality of whether it works or not. this is a question of the law that was passed. all of a sudden you have a bureaucracy who decides to gets the exemptions and who doesn't. that's what's wrong. it's not fair. it's an outrages procedure and it shouldn't have passed. it's universal for everybody or

it isn't for anybody. >> giving out waivers is an admission of guilty. basically they're saying you're right, we screwed up. we're going to give you time to figure it out. that's the bottom line here. >> they did not create a blog that benefits -- a law that benefits all of us. >> the insurance companies are trying to get in here, too, aetna and all of their employees. >> from the get-go they admitted this wasn't a perfect bill because a perfect bill wasn't their objective. their objective was getting more control over health care. julian, they've got this plan for you in 24 teen, and this plan for you in 2018. i don't want to be kurt, but you've got to be a mushroom to think this is going to increase benefits over the long term. >> julian, quickly. >> i guess the congressional budget office, the business round table, everybody else must be mushrooms. >> it's littered with caveats. >> bottom line, it's killing jobs and they're admit it go.

>> bottom line is go on the health and human services website and six clicks later you can see who sells on the list. coming up, the plan to get americans out of the red that's sure to have some motorists seeing red. let's get chinese. should we order panda blossom, panda moon... how about chinese at home with wanchai ferry? you can make it in just 14 minutes. mmmh, orange chicken. great. i didn't feel like going out anyway. [ male announcer ] wanchai ferry.

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african-american in congress. more on the power struggle in a live report coming up i at the p of the hour. sarah palin has advice for in coming freshman lawmakerrs. in a letter to some who had asked for her help, she told them defunding obama care should be their priority. a new ship commissioned in florida is being named for a soldier who threw himself on a grenade in iraq, saving the lives of fellow troops. more on these and the rest of your top stories coming up at the top of the hour right here on america's news headquarters. hope you'll join us. hike up the gasoline tax by 15 cents a ga gallon to help pay down our debt. the deficit commission is pushing that as the average national average pushes over 3 bucks a gallon. the tax would kick in gradually starting in 2013. tracy says there i this is no tr

that kind of talk. >> the economy is in the toilet. you don't just affect me as a driver. you affect delivery drivers. my food prices go up. costs will go up. two, i hear no talk of anybody cutting spending in d.c. you want to cut back in d.c., fine. maybe i'll chip in a little on my gas tax. until then, no. it's not the time to do this to the american families. >> wayne? >> well, theoretically i think it's a good tax in the following sense, that if you can replace the income tax with a consumption tax, and that's what this is, and you made all taxes consumption tax, it's a good idea. tracy is right in the following sense. you must cut spending first. >> charlie, what do you think about this? >> unless you misread the commission's report, they aren't looking to reduce the rates on the income tax. you know, listen. i'm divided on this thing. i hate taxes. if you do any type of taxes, a consumption tax sounds like the right way to go. i hate feeding the monster.

it rubs me the wrong way to think we have to tax our way out of the deficit. >> so what do you think, julian? we could cut consumption and there are people like al alan greenspan who say we can't use all of this oil from the arabs. >> it's fewer t bonds observed by the chieps. you can make up for the impact by getting greater fuel efficiency. the idea was to have this thing kick in once the economy rebounds. the debt commission is talking about two-thirds spending cut, one-third revenue. the only way to solve the problem, cut the debt and create jobs is if both political parties declare a truce. >> the reason why we're in the economy we're in right now is because businesses are fearing taxes. you do realize that the reason why we'v we've got 9.6% employmt two years after the collapse

because businesses are hoarding crash. >> no, they're not. >> yes, they are. >> in general i think wayne is actually correct. you want to not tax production like income tax, you want to tax consumption. the problem is we've already got a 15% gallon o 15% 15% tax on a. follow europe's lead. they've sold of highways, airports, bridges. it provides a wind fall for the government and allows the producers and the owners and the users of these assets to set the correct price. that's the direction we should go. >> thanks, gang. thanks to jul julian epstein for joining us. wayne, i know you've got to catch a flight. be off and be well. see you nex next week. coming up, it's lights out for al gore's chicago climate

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