israel they haven't had any problems in 30 years. we can learn from this guy. >> sean: that's my point. let's do that first. >> people are going to have to make a decision do they want to feel a little less safe or more violated? that's the choice that everybody has to deal with. >> sean: if we follow the israeli example we won't have to do this. guys thanks for being here. greta is next. we'll see you back here tomorrow night. >> greta: tonight full circle. lou dobbs my former and now new colleague goes on the record about a red hot topic he has come under fire about. illegal immigration. lou, nice see you. >> good to be with you greta. >> greta: strange twist of fate. who would have guessed this one? >> not a soul. >> greta: longtime since we've been on the air together. >> it has, i haven't calculated the exact time. i think it is a decade or so.

>> greta: welcome to fox news channel. let me get right to the topic for tonight. many americans of the republican -- many members of the republican party are opposed to birthright are you in favor of changing that or not? >> absolutely not. i'm one of those who is very, very reserved when it comes to the idea of changing the constitution for any reason. greta, the idea that we would tamper with the 14th amendment, it application to illegal immigrants. it begs the question why are we not securing our borders? why are we not effectively enforcing immigration laws? to tammer with the constitution and take an -- to tamper with the constitution and take away constitutional rights of i on. >> greta: no one can blame lou dobbs for not securing our borders. you have been talking about

this for a long tile. i don't think you are going to -- longtime. i don't think you are going to convince congress we have a border problem. >> the new congress is more easily persuaded than given credit for. 60% of the country now support as arizona style of law to stop illegal immigration. at the same time we have a responsibility it seems to be working construction actively and positively toward a rational effective, humane solution to illegal immigration and those who are in this country illegally, providing some sort of intelligent approach to resolving what is literally a crisis. >> greta: you say rational humane idea or program you are not going to get that. there's been no appetite for that you've been talking about it for a number of years. they will not face this issue. they are worried about their political issue.

whatever the solution is. >> i have been working with all of the factions involved in the illegal immigration debate in the amnesty debate, open orderers, border security debate. -- open borders, border security debate. those factions in my judgment could be brought together. i worked hard this year to do that talking with senator schumer, congressman gutierrez, two of the principal advocates on the issue. yet, there's this sense which may have changed given the november 2nd, election results they are going to get a whole loaf. until people understand there will have to be a compromise to get this problem solved, we are not going to go forward and solve it. as soon as everyone understands the law will have to be met, the border will have to be secured. and we must come up with an

intelligent, rational, effective, humane solution to those in this country illegally. >> greta: even with the federal government and arizona, arizona did something constitutional or not, the response was not to work on a solution but go after arizona. they ignored there might be a problem. >> you just highlighted one of the principle obstacles an administration much like the previous wants to game the american people on this issue the american people clearly understand the need to secure our borders. whether it is to stop illegal immigration, stop terrorism, to stop the massive amounts of drugs, mexico remains our principle source of her win -- heroin, methamphetamines, cocaine, marijuana and we do all but nothing to control that border that is an administration that will not be straightforward, honest with the american people. i hope this election will prompt a new kind of thinking

in this administration. >> greta: i hope you keep coming back to on the record and once again welcome to fox news. >> thank you greta, delighted to be with us. >> greta: governor rick perry gets a new job, sort of. republican governors association meeting this book in san diego and just picked governor perry as the new leader of their organization. griff jenkins talked to several governors about their battle against the national health care law. governor perry has a plan. >> we've got a two-prong attack. one to get the health care delivery back to the states where it should be. where the innovation is going to occur where the people are going to get the better delivery of health care, preventive health care, in a substantially less costly fashion. obviously, the second one, to get washington to understand, we can help them with their budget problems.

we think we can see 50% cut of cost, if they will just block grant those dollars back to the states. let us deliver the health care. i can promise you in texas, we can save substantial money. the fact is, we are different out here. connecticut and texas, two different places. we think the states are the place where these decisions need to be made. >> the republicans picked up several new governors in the midterm election bringing the told number of republican governors to 29. the headline here at this meeting the states an' coordinated effort to fight obamacare. >> i think it will expand to 25 or more we are going to fight it in lawsuit. hopefully will move through the courts quickly. i would love to make a suggestion to congress, suspend this law for two years, put america back to work and in the meantime, really think

what passed and slow it down. >> lonely the last four years his office is across from the governor is going to get a walk over -- letter walked over from me the day i take office, january 3rd, authorizing him, right now he can't, without the governor empowering to join in the florida lawsuit. we give him that letter and he's ready to go. >> we've got to get that repealed by 2014 when it fully kicks in. or this federal court litigation pending in florida that i joined recently needs to be successful. initial some of the legal scholars doesn't have much of a chance, i think it does. more people that being looed at it saying this court process in florida may be one of the main ways we can repeal or remove obamacare. >> the importance of it is not just that we disagree with the policy and not just because i

believe it is not going to work in the sense of lowering health care cost the question is do we believe it is constitutional? that needs to be fully challenged. >> we are concerned if the other states like south dakota, we have 93% with a plan before the federal plan was passed. now we have companies that are bailing. they don't want to be in the business. before we had this passage of the federal plan our medicaid rolls were 103,000 people. with the passage of this plan it will swell by 52,000 more people on medicaid. put that in perspective teen now and 2019 for my state the additional cost for my taxpayers without regard continue on medical services will be about 100 . >> as we look at this -- 100 million dollars. >> as we look at this health care mandate you are looking at a billion dollars in south carolina. this is a great opportunity to

have a conversation with washington and say rather than mandating health care, let us incentivize small businesses let us pass tort reform and go to a -- let us reform our medicaid system. >> aspects of the health care plan are good the financial burden is going to be huge on all states. it can not afford that and cannot afford to have the federal government telling to purchase and examine you don't, there will be a penalty. -- >> we are going to repeal it as long as president obama is president because he will veto it. we can chip an wearing improve it, change it and in 2013 we can get rid of it. >> greta: a senator slams another senator. senator lamar alexander is next. >> did senator brown -- [ inaudible ]

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. >> greta: we've all been waiting and waiting and

waiting to find out if the bush tax cuts will be extended to you. what is going on? republican senator lamar alexander went on the record. senator nice to see you, sir. >> nice to see you. >> greta: mr. geithner says it would be irresponsible for congress to adjourn this year without extending bush era tax cuts for the middle class. >> i think he's right but incomplete. it would be irresponsible for us to adjourn this year without extending the current tax rates for anybody. because it makes no sense to raise taxes on anybody in the middle of a recession. we've got two, three weeks in which to do that. the president's former budget adviser suggested that. republicans are for that, so let's do it. >> greta: i take it you have never stood in the way of the issue come together floor? >> i don't think i have. i think what we want to do in the procedures we have is to say the issue that we want to

come to the floor is, let's keep tax rates at the same levels for everybody. we'll use whatever took place we have -- whatever tools we have. >> greta: what is stopping from it coming to the floor? >> only one person can set agenda in the senate and that's harry reid.e' >> greta: the reason it is on the floor is because democrats control this part of the deal. >> he's bringing up the dream act, don't ask, don't tell. he's got a long list of things. it is as if he never heard a word in this election. the american people said private sector jobs, reduce the debt the best way to keep private sector job as life in this country is to not raise taxes on people -- >> greta: the only way things get done is a little give-and-take. what are you willing to give? most republicans have said, we

want to keep the current tax rates at the same levels permanently. if the president wants to do it for some period of time, we are open to that. >> greta: are there enough votes for that to get through? enough republicans who agree? sense is there's likely to be. i think the president and republican leaders can sit down and talk about that. if he wants to take the position his former direct -- budget director took. >> greta: everyone has known these tax cuts would expire as of 2001, 2002 and now we are up to the line -- 2001, 2003 and now we are up to the line to get worked on voted so american people can plan their finances. >> i saw it in election results republicans have been saying let's keep the tax rates where they are. let's don't raise them at least during a down turn.

it is up to the democratic majority and the president to say we agree, let's do it. >> greta: why didn't it come up three months ago, four months ago? >> we had big democratic majorities they set agenda. now we've had an election and we've got a republican house after january. we'll still have a democratic president and senate. the answer is democrats want the taxes to go up. >> greta: who has shown the most leadership on the democratic side on directing this issue and getting it to a decision? >> that's hard to say. it hasn't come to a decision. so it wouldn't be the speaker. it wouldn't be harry reid. and it wouldn't be the president. i guess it would be peter orszag who was the budget director now retired from that job suggested the current levels of taxation should be extended at least two years. everybody knows he said if you raise tacks in the middle of economy it costs jobs. >> greta: in terms of your not

want to raise taxes on the wealthy is that a political philosophy or economic position based on what it would do to the economy or a combination of both? >> jobs. let's elevate this. what we need to do to be a great country is make it easier and cheaper to create private sector jobs and do something about the debt. if you want to make it easier and cheaper to create private sector jobs, you don't take tax dollars away from job creators at a time they might be using it to create jobs. >> greta: economic decision. >> it is a jobs decision. >> greta: what is your position on earmarks moratorium? >> i'm for it. the president said he's for it. house republicans have said they are for it. we've asked the senate democrats to join us. we don't want to mislead people to think that will solve the budget problems. it has become a symbol of

waste. if we haven't heard that in the election we would be guilty of what the president is guilty of and not hearing what people are saying about taxes. >> greta: is this binding or something you can vote on and agree on and six months down the road change things? >> it is not binding. republican caucus can't bind me or the senator from kansas we are hired by the people. what is binding when we go to the floor, senator coburn offers this amendment and i vote for it and it passes that's binding. that's what i intend to do. >> greta: senator, nice to see you. >> did you hear what senator brown did? there is a big twist, stay right here. >> congress gets paid to do it, but won't. yes, political cowards. two are stepping up. get ready to tighten your belts. a plan for you. they go on the record, coming up. yellowbook has always been crucial to your business,

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>> greta: you've heard about some lawmakers trying to previously the health care law. what about trying to change it? republican senators have introduced a bill asking to change the national health care lay. the legislation would allow states to opt-out of parts of the law. good idea or not? former senator rick santorum joins us live. trying to accelerate a date when something can happen? >> a waiver. state of massachusetts has a comprehensive plan. being suggested the massachusetts plan was the basis for the obama plan. he's trying to allow their plan to continue to operate

without having to comply with the new federal rules. it is for your home state. you have a bill in place similar to the one passed. it makes sense. remember when scott brown got elected we had a conversation as to what kind of senator he would be? someone because of his celebrity status that would seek to take the national stage do national shows and run for president or deciding i'm going to work hard, get reelected? the answer is b. senator from massachusetts. he's doing what is best for massachusetts. >> greta: it is a democratic seat that he holds typically. to the extend -- to the extent he works across the aisle with senator widen is good. >> he's on another bill that deals with the 1099 issue which is very important for small businesses. he's trying to be constructive. when you represent a liberal democratic state aunt are a republican and calling for

repeal which he continues to call for, you want to show you are principled but trying to be constructive. i think it is a nice balance for him. >> greta: this whole idea of letting states opt-out. it is called the national health care -- >> businesses opt-out too. >> greta: people who have lobbyists. if you have -- if you have enough money to get out you are not paying into the pool to lower the cost. every time they give somebody an exemption you are taking somebody out of the pool that's the funding of it. >> that's what will ultimately happen. a lot of these are requirements on health care plans that these companies say they -- their plan is working well we don't need these requirements on top of this. rates will go up. the obama administration doesn't want to be blamed for that so they are giving these waivers. >> greta: so waivers mean it

is a national health care plan for some of you, not all of you. if you got a lobbyist maybe you get out of it. >> true. what it also shows is obamacare is costing money, is gonna increase rates, is gonna reduce the number of people who are going to be insured because businesses will not be able to comply. >> greta: the whole point is because we had a segment of the population who didn't have insurance, 10, 20, 30 million, whatever it was. -- >> why don't you just fix the problem? >> >> greta: in order to pay for these people, national health care where everyone is brought into the pool. now everyone kicked into the pool. now if you've got waivers to get out whether massachusetts, wealthy state, whether you are some union or some fast food, whatever, everyone is jumping ship is now not going to be in

that pool to keep the rates down and help those people. >> true. the pool hasn't been established. >> greta: that comes in 24 teen. this bill that senator brown wants this waiver for his state kicks in, in 2014. >> way it was designed was 2017. they would force everybody in they wouldn't allow waivers. >> greta: now they are letting certain people out. nebraska, florida, unions, massachusetts wants a special deal, oregon wants a special deal. the people who are the regular single guy, woman not part of some big organization is completely stuck. >> welcome to government run health care. that's what it is >> greta: everybody should be in or everybody should be out. if you are going to call it national. >> not everybody is on or out of bill. this bill wasn't designed to be the most efficient and

effective health care it was designed to get votes. there are deals throughout this for states, for -- >> greta: that house is gonna start -- now it is republican, going to investigate this up the wazzu. sebelius and everybody is going to be down there. >> two bills targeted, you are going to see a bunch of these coming out of the house. picking apart the bill with the things in there. >> greta: every person put under oath i would say when did you read it? did you read it and when did you? all under oath. what a mess. senator, thank you. >> thank you. >> greta: congress is supposed to be in charge. they aren't. they run from their jobs. sometimes they dump the heart stuff on others. which is why two are here to go on the record. >> imagine if one day you found a nine foot boa

constrictor hitching a ride in your car. that story is coming up. ♪

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let's keep it moving. ♪ >> greta: congress and the president are supposed to run the country and make the tough decisions they don't always do it. worse, sometimes they cause the problems. which is why our next to guests are so important. republican allen simpson and democrat erskine bowles are the co-chairs of president obama's debt commission created to dig us out of this mess. they went on the record. mr. bowles first with you. is your recommendation binding in any way? >> if we get 14 votes it has to go to the senate and the senate has to give an up or down vote then to the house. only if we get 14 out of 18 votes. >> greta: great idea. this plan is a winner with your work you can sent it to capitol hill and it runs into

a wall, right? >> won't be any question about that. we don't hold any false hopes. i tell you one thing, we are pleased at the general reaction of the public that finally somebody quit bsing them and put something on the table that slaughtered every sacred cow in the field. they are tired of the politician who sits here or with you, then you ask them directly what would you cut in spending? well, waste, fraud, abuse, foreign aid and earmarks. great, that will get you 5%, now what are you gonna deal with pal? well let's see the lawrence wel k society thing in north dakota, forget. you got to go where the meat is. medicare, medicaid, social security, not balancing the budget on the backs of social security. making it solvent for 75 years. boy, this is tough duty. >> greta: a number of things

the american people are seizing upon one is mortgage interest deduction. some think i don't want to lose my interest. is there a way people with pick up that deduction another way? >> absolutely. there are 1.1 trillion dollars of what al and i call tax earmarks. compared to 16 billion in spending. 1.1 trillion of tax earmarks into the tax code. we wipe those out. we take the rates down to 8% up to $70,000, 14% up to $102 10,000 and 23% above that. even better we take the corporate rate down to 26% so america is the best place to start and grow a business. >> greta: what do we get out of this? give me an idea of what you expect to happen if everybody goes along what is our country going to look like? >> i would expect the until

scene would change completely. when we go with whatever president two visit and participate sessions all over, they will say the united states of america actually the guts to correct the course, which is going to be as suddenly dramatic and drastic as would happen in greece, ireland, portugal or spain and they did something. by george now their bonds are worth something. if you don't just do nothing this country will head into the bow-wows. >> greta: everyone who looks says yes we have to do something. no one wants to lose mortgage interest, social security or get a reduction in medicare, medicaid. in terms of what are proposing, who is going to pay for this? someone has to pay for this? >> everybody is going to pay. no sacred cows here. we are cutting defense, nondefense discretionary spending. we are cutting social security and we are cutting health

care. you gotta cut it all nothing can be left off. we are taking these tax expenditures just ing in the tax code and taking 100 billion dollars of that a year applying it to reduce the deficit. it is the only way this problem is real. solutions is very painful and everybody's to be on the table. >> when you flash words of social security. we are taking care of the lower segment of society, underprivileged, vulnerable, we give them 125% of poverty. we also say over 80, we have a cut in for 80 to 85, takes a little out. but, we are changing the retirement age. you gotta go there. we say raise the rate to 68 age, in the year 2050. if you can't move it one month every two years when the life expectancy is 76, when the

whining and the groaning starts we say don't touch it, the third rail. in 2037, you waddle up there at 65 to get your check and it will be 22% and there a single person from the right and left who challenges those figures. >> greta: i take it you took into consideration health care costs. how were you able to do that? i imagine it is complicated. to what extent are we going meet the goals of the program assuming that the health care bill doesn't get thrown out? >> we made tough choices. we took 700 billion dollars worth of cuts in health care over the next eight, nine years. it wasn't easy. you have to do it. this is not one of those things that you can spare anything. chairman4c' of joint chiefs of staff said this week if we don't do something about in national debt, it is thew$(

biggest threat we have to our national security. you talk to any business guy, they know if we keep building up this debt they are not going to get the capital to grow their business. think about people that know we to complete in a global marketplace invest in education, infrastructure and high speed research. they know there will be no money left for that if we keep building up this debt. we'll have a trillion worth of interest expense alone in 2020 if we do nothing. that is unsustainable. >> greta: let's take a family in my hometown, three children and the income to the family is $100,000 a year. if what you propose becomes the law, how affect that family? mid 40s right now with three kids in their early teens. >> they would, if our plan went through as is, they would lose all of their tax deductions. but their tax rate would be in the 15 to 16% area total taxes,

that's it. >> don't forget, the largest people who ben from it these glutted tax earmarks are the top 1% of income people in the united states. they are the ones that have the money to hire the lobbyists to go to work in this and this and nobody has ever looked after they go on the books. we were stunned when we found out it was one trillion, 100 billion a year that sucks out of the top 400 taxpayers in america pay average income tax of 16.6%. that's a lower rate -- >> greta: is that because of the earmarks in the tax code? >> all of the earmarks in the tax code. >> greta: how did they arrive in the tax code? >> all the special interests were able to beat them out of -- >> going to gucci gulch that's what they used to call it.

they would smirk and laugh and say we'll be in there in a couple of hours and we'll get this in for this industry or this guy and 16% and they should be paying 36. the little guy the $100,000 guy isn't using a lot of those deductibles, can't, doesn't make any difference. the big cats use it. >> you still gotta cut spending, $3 for every $1 in he have knew. you can't spare any -- in revenue. you can't spare any cow. you have to take it down or this country will be bankrupted. >> if somebody sleeks they are raising taxes. -- that's not so, we are saying your rates are gonna come down across the board. i mean, there is no way that anybody can fake this any more and say that it is a tax increase. it is not. >> greta: how did you do this? i see you two.

18 on the commission. how long have you been working? >> we have a staff of two. >> greta: need more or did that work? >> which probably could have used more. we had a couple of volunteers, young kids who have been helpful. >> they didn't know we couldn't do it. all the paoefl said you can't do it. we -- all of the people said you can't do it. we got some young kids who said let's get it done. they said how much are you making simpson? >> they give me a round trip coach, i got a new knee, i'll pay the spread. government rate at night, hotel in town, i'll be out about $25,000 when i finish this. >> greta: i haven't seen the final report yet, and i hope it is a great one. i appreciate -- i know how much hard work it is and how important this is, so thank you. >> thank you very much. >> it will be stronger. >> greta: are you going to be

friends only you two? just the two of you? >> but we won't blame anybody else. we won't say so and so didn't help. let me tell you, it is an indigestible lump when the debt limit comes up in april and this baby is laying there at blood is on the floor and new guys are saying i'm not going to raise the debt limit, this country is going to lose its credit, erskine and i will be home. the deficit denial is over, no more playing, no more games. >> greta: thank you both. next there's an escalating war in mexico right now. that is next. >> a wild best of the rest. female politician slaps her male colleague caught on tape. >> what is the weirdest thing you can find in your car? stay tuned. with capital one's v, we get double mi on every purchase. echo! so we earned a trip thgrand canyon twice as fast. uhoh. we get double miles evy time we use our card.

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new york newsroom. >> reporter: the house ethics committee recommending the censure of representative rangel. the 20 term new york democrat found guilty of financial and fundraising miscon. rangel apologized saying he was not a -- crooked politician out for personal gain. >> bodies of three missing in ohio have been found. police saying two women and a boy were found stuffed in a hallowed tree. one of the woman's 13-year-old daughter went missing with them found alive saturday tied up in a house 10 miles from her home. >> nikkei up 10,074. hang seng down 23,453 dow jones futures down at 11,154. for more business news tune into the fox business network giving you the power to prosper. i'm lauren greene now back to on the record. >> greta: our colleague

jennifer griffin has reported from many war zones. tonight right in our own backyard. you are going to the united states/mexico border. >> same model that we saw in colombia under the immediate cartel it is now in our own -- backyard. >> reporter: in charge of 16 state of art helicopters that make up the aviation assets used by the texas department of public safety to fight the mexican drug cartels as they move drugs and people into the united states. >> this is one of their favorite scouting places here. they can cover a lot of territory. >> reporter: also a popular spot for what is known as a splash-down. when the heat is on they try to make it back to mexico with the drugs. often in broad daylight. because the texas law enforcement's authority ends at the border, in this case the river the drug runners

have time to put on life jackets or wave good-bye. >> in less than two minutes they can put 2,000 pounds of dope into the highway. we don't have a lot of time to interdict these people. how secure does that border look? >> o' >> reporter: president obama and janet napolitano said the southern border was -- was more secure than it has been in 20 years. >> to suggest it is secure is ridiculous. >> to hear pilots talk about surveillance techniques, tactical strike teams they could be in kabul or baghdad. they are fighting a war here. >> reporter: last year 9,000 people were killed in drug cartel violence in mexico. 1800 in the afghan war. mexican cartel members now cross the border with ak-47's on their backs wearing military camouflage gathering intelligence on the border patrol. they have spotters who sit on the river, local authorities

are employing counter insurgency tactics. >> we got sick areas of operation. 23 ports -- we got six areas of operation. 23 ports of entry. >> reporter: many of his team has served in iraq or afghanistan. >> certainly is a war in the sense that we are doing what we can to protect texans at the rest of the nation. >> reporter: last year texas law enforcement seized 189,000 pounds of marijuana. the border patrol arrested 115,000 illegal aliens trying to enter from mexico every year estimated one million make it through. 97% come through the southern border. >> i never once thought that although we've always done historically great work it would be in this paramilitary type engagement. that's what this is. it is a war on the border. >> reporter: as the sun went down, a bordertown of 100,000,

we a call to provide air support for a pursuit. >> he's doing about 130. three vehicles one filled with narcotics, chasen sigh us. the night vision helps with the hunt. >> he's in the night sun. >> reporter: the night sun spotlight will yous troopers to track and surround the drug runners. >> one in custody. >> we have everybody. >> reporter: 1800 pounds of marijuana with a street value of $700,000, captured with seven suspected cartel members. it is all in a night's work for the texas department of public safety. on the u.s./mexico border, jennifer griffin, fox news. >> greta: next, the best of the rest. the wildest political fight we've ever seen. a female politician decides to slap her male colleague. that video is next. >> here's a quiz just for you.

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>> greta: here's the best of the rest. this is an unpleasant experience. woman at a california shopping

center count awe unwanted passenger trying to hitch a ride. nine foot boa constructor she saw the snake wrapped around her engine dangling under the vehicle. police had a tough time removing the snake but used toil slide from it the engine. you will be happy to know it is in good condition and docile. police say it was someone's pet. >> new twist in one of the biggest political dust-ups of the year. controversy erupted when it was revealed that meg whitman once employed an illegal immigrant housekeeper. you may remember the story exploded thanks to lawyer gloria allred who represented the housekeeper. we locked horns here. >> besides the fact that a multi-millionaire somehow doesn't think when the government -- >> greta: it is not class war that's blackmail that's the problem you are blackmailing, she looks like the creep

because she is the rich person against the person who is here illegally, who is going to -- >> hold on! >> >> greta: the campaign is over, whitman lost. now whitman just paid a settlement to the house keep -- housekeeper, $5,500 in back pay. >> a congressional battle in argentina just got physically violent. during a political debate a female politician got so furious at a male colleague she decided to slap him in the mouth. they were fighting over the budget. some officials in argentina reportedly calling for the woman to resign. in case you were wondering it exploded on live tv. imagine that happening on our own c-span? there you have the best of the rest. >> holiday travel hits major hurdle h this isn't about body scans. but stay right here.

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>> greta: 11:00 is almost here, last call. there is something you need to know. >> triple a predicting 42 million people will travel for thanksgiving. not only that, 30 million of them won't be talking to each other once they reach their destination. >> that is the spirit, jimmy. that is your last call. thanks for joining us tonight. tomorrow night we