>> steve: we're going to continue to talk to the guy who lost all that money and it was returned by the homeless guy. those two in phoenix in our after the show show. log on right now. >> gretchen: we already have some people offering a jobs. so maybe we'll hook up dave with a job. log on for the after the show show. have a fantastic day. see you tomorrow. >> all right, going monday morning, fox news alert, a showdown over the american patdown, tsa facing more protests from angry airline passengers one by one as we get ready for the busiest travel week of the year, no one, not even the head of the tsa, predicted this kind of backlash. >> obviously, we were anticipating there would be some concerns because of the changed policy or procedures, but we're just trying to use th latest intelligence to make sure we're keepingle traveling public safe but i think it's also safe to say there has

been a reaction that not many people could have printed, including myself. bill: this is going to be one interesting week. martha: i'm little afraid! bill: you might be looking forward to my story, the following monday. martha: can we take pictures? bill we can. i'm ibm hemmer, hope you had a good weekend. martha: good morning, i'm martha maccallum. the tsa says they're not changing their policy but they are tweaking that, but they're going to do their best to make sure the patdowns out there for bill hemmer and others as they travel are not too intrusive. the public outrage is growing. bill: hillary clinton spoke about it over the weekend and she seemed sympathetic as well. >> if there is a way to limit the number of people who are going to be put through surveillance, that's something that i'm sure can be considered, but everybody is trying to do the right thing. and i understand how difficult it is, and how offensive it must be for the people who are going through it. >> final question, my time

is up, but would you submit to one of these patdowns? >> not if i aa-- could avoid it. no, i mean who would? bill: how about that for candor, right? steve centanni is live, all the backlash, is the tsa changing its tuna bit? >> reporter: well, bill, they haven't put out a new official policy yet, and yet, they have indicated they might adjust the policy somewhat. we don't know exactly what that means just yet. here on the busiest travel week of the year with 2 million americans expected to travel around the thanksgiving holiday and possible opt out day or passenger protest scheduled for wednesday, we don't know what's going to happen but certainly we know the tsa has been under an incredible amount of increasing pressure over the patdowns and the john -- and john pistole spoke to fox & friends and asked if any changes will be made and here's what he said: >> what i agreed to do is to look at how we can do this

type of screening, if we can do it -- >> >> reporter: doing, what we don't know exactly, will it be the same patdown but avoiding some of the sensitive area, will it be done to fewer people, will they throw it all together, will there be any change in policy. at this point we don't know but we do know the tsa is under a lot of pressure. bill: you said we don't know what to expect in all of this but we're 48 hours from the bustiest day of travel so far. the anticipation is what come wednesday? >> certainly a busy travel day and people are being advised that get here early, of course, as always, allow extra time, because even if just a few people participate in that opt-out proses it -- protest it could tie things up incredibly on that very busy travel day, but just to remind people, only 20 percent of the passengers are being asked to go through that full body scanner. if you refuse to do that, then you have to go through the patdown, so it's a small

percentage of the traveling public but just a few people on a very busy travel day could tie things up all across the country, bill. bill: steve centanni, thank you. >> the tsa why consultation with counterterrorism experts are indicated to me that the procedures that they've been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective. bill: then of course -- >> reporter: then of course there was the president in liz bon at the that -- at that that nato summit. it remains to be seen what all this means. bill: everybody is getting asked about it and rightfully so. steve centanni, reagan national airport, thank you. martha: how about this, republican governor bobby jindual of louisiana, slamming the federal government, saying that it failed to understand the true nature of the war on terror. here's what he said: >> the reality is this isn't about people who don't have enough jobs, who don't have

social aid this, is about fighting the enemy that hates our way of life, this is a fundamental clash of cultures and i think it's important in the war on terrorism that we understand what's at stake. this isn't well, let's go out and figure out a way to apologize for americans. martha: the polices may be playing a role in some of comments, some think bobby jindal may have his eye on the white house, along with other people. will he run in 2012, we'll see. bill: regardless of every interview, he'll ask him that, what about 2012. a shocking story of a t. -- tsa screening gone terribly wrong, 60 year old tomas sorria. special ed teacher said he was humiliated by an enhanced patdown at detroit's airport, a cancer survivor, he wears a device, collects his urine daily and the scanner picked up the device, he was targeted for a patdown, during the procedure, the seal on the bag broke. >> i was so embarrassed and so petrified of going out

into the air, thinking people would see me and quote unquote, smell me, which i knew that -- no, i didn't know. i was mortified, trying to figure out what am i going to do. i think i had a little panic attack. i think i d i really did. you know, my heart started beating, i didn't know what to do, i felt kind of trapped, you know, in this room with no wind oerbgs i've got urine, two men i don't know, my underwear had been dropped to the floor, i'm standing in front of them with my underwear and had to ask to pull it up. had to catch a plane. had to do this, had to clean up, had to -- what aim going to do. bill wow. he says he tried to explain to the person checking him about his condition but was ignored, and relayed that story in large part on fox tph-f friends earlier today. sawyer was not able to clean up until after his plane took off. he travels with a change of clothes and used the clothe clothing in the bathroom to change at that point.

he says he plans to file a formal complaint about the tsa. martha. martha: we are hearing too many stories like this one. this is not a tenable situation and here's a closer look at the tsa and their screening procedures. just after the september 11th terror attacks congress passed the aviation and transportation security act to pick up security, of course, at our airport, in 2008 can congress approved $250 million in technology that was meant to improve the detection of explosives and today, there are about 30,000 screeners at airport checkpoints across this country but this is not a process not perfected. -- perfected. bill:bill: there's so much reaction. log on to "america's newsroom", our you decide question today, do you intend to change your thanksgiving travel plans in light of the changes with tsa. go to foxnews.com, vote there and see what the folks are saying. lines are open right now on line. martha: and there is new

drama this morning in alaska's senate race, republican joe miller now has one last chance to block certification of these election results that you see here, candidate lisa murkowski declared victory last week, an alaska federal junk says he will grant temporary injunction as long as miller files his lawsuit challenging that ballot count in a state court. miller wants to make sure that the votes are counted strictly according to state law. bill also new poll numbers, martha, shedding new light on the public's mood on federal spending. according to russ -- rasmussen reports, 5 percent say they prefer a candidate who would cut federal spending, only 33 percent say the preferred candidate who goes after federal money for his or her district, those findings show little change before the midterm vote when the midterm campaign season was getting into full swing, 55-33 from rasmussen. martha: meanwhile, retiring

new hampshiregen toroo senator judd gregg says the u.s. economy is on an unsustainable track. >> the problem is very simple, we're on an unsustainable tract, we're going to double debt in the next three years, the damage vet will be tripet the next ten years. we're not greece but we are on the exact same track. martha: that's cheery news this monday morning. airing bolling from follow your money -- eric bolling from fox business news joins us. we are heading towards financial disaster in this country. >> in fact, senator gregg was offered a job in the white house, also commerce secretary, and he said if i take that job i'll have to give up my senate seat. it's important to get fiscally responsible in the senate and now he's retiring but he's on to something. in two years, in less than two years, mr. obama has managed to rack up

$3 trillion in debt, 670 days that, equals, $3 trillion, from george washington's inauguration through ronald reagan's last day in august, 200 years, the velocity at which we're adding to the debt is out of control, it's exponential compared to what we used to be, judd gregg is right, we have to either stop the spending which i think he wants to do, or figure out a way to handle the bush tax cuts. we have to figure out a way to make them go forward without crushing our debt, adding trillions on to the debt. phillip: you know -- martha: you know, it is so disturb wh-g you look at the debt numbers and i think for the first time people across the country are starting to say that we can't go on like this, and yet, you hear politicians in washington saying we can't do anything too drastic, we can cut here but we're not going to touch social security, not going to touch medicare, defense. you literally can't do it if you don't touch those things. >> and last week there was a

commission that came out, the debt commission, they suggested 6 1/2% national sales tax by the way, you know, i talked to -- >> martha: it's not a bad idea. >> no, i think a flat tax or a fair tax is a good idea if it eliminates another tax, an income tax. what they want to do, this is very, very important, they want to add 6 1/2%, and i think -- two authors of the tax said what happens when you close debt, let's say this is a great idea and we close that decifit and we're back to zero, does that go away? no, no, there's no plans to take that away. so all we'd be doing is -- >> in washington -- >> in essence, make government bigger, we'll make it bigger. martha: great, let's sign up for that. watch eric's show, follow the money on fox business network, at 9:00 p.m. eastern, and on thursday,. go to our show home page, fox news/america's news raoplg, do you think that the social security system should be overhauled,

yes, it's in trouble, or no, they shouldn't mess with it. we're going to have those results later in the show and you know what happens if they don't mess with it. bill: you hear what rick perry said? he calls it a ponzi scheme, perry with harsh words over the way social security is being run. will the money be there for you when you retire? bob and andrea tackle that today. martha: he is the first living recipient of the living medal honor, and guinta is heading to wall street. we'll tell you why. bill: so well deserved. hillary clinton talking about the patdown kr-pbt kwrefplt that's not all she talked about from terror trials to afghanistan. she ran the gamut. is there something more to her comments? that's coming up here, inside "america's newsroom" on a monday.

bill: all right. he is shooting down reports of a run for the white house in 2012 but texas governor rick perry is taking aim at the white house on social security. the new chairman of the republican governors association with chris wallace on fox news sunday: >> what i'm saying is that between social security, medicaid and medicare, there's $106 trillion of unfunded liabilities, and not one dime saved to pay for them. my children who are in their 20s know that social

security is a ponzi scheme. bill: a ponzi scheme. bob beckel, democratic political analyst, andrea tantaros -- santoras, you should hear what we talked about during the commercial break. good morning to both of you. is ponzi rolling over in his grave today, andrea? >> i think he is. the only difference is usually in a ponzi scheme, people don't know they're being snookered, they don't realize they're being duped in but in the case of social security, we have full disclosure about what the government is doing. ponzi schemes require new investors, and when social security was set up, there was a lot more workers than there were retirees, now we see that being flipped. a lot less people are working, a lot less people are paying into social security and you're going to have a lot more people rye tiring, especially with the baby boomers. so that's one reason why. bill: so you thought perry was on target in his comment there. bob, did you? >> first of all, i didn't know there was a charles ponzi, i didn't know that.

bill: yes! he sold -- -- >> i didn't know that, anyway, the one person that i probably would not go to as an expert on social security would be the governor of texas. what does he know about social security? and how does he know it's a ponzi scheme? what i understood ponzi schemes to mean was you put your money in and didn't get it back. there's not been a single social security recipient who's not gotten their money and check on time. maybe not on time but they've gotten their checks so frankly, i know he's become the head of the governors association but probably ought to study that a little bit. bill: you get the check but the program is going deeper and deeper into debt every year. this was perry's larger point, his larger point was give the states the money and block grants and allow each individual state to make their decisions with regard to the money, whether it's social security or medicare or medicaid. that was his larger point andrea. >> and that's very, very smart. look, bob, a ponzi scheme is run when, like i said, you need new investors, you're

basically taking some peoples' money and giving it to the guy next door. that's exactly what social security is doing, and frankly, at the rate it's going, there are not enough funds in there to pay my generation social security, so it really is a ponzi scheme. another reason, bill, is lawmakers -- and why is whyo though is why perry's point is on -- lawmakers have been stealing from the social security fund to pay for other things and in that lock box we hear about, there's a bunch of ious and we're paying taxes on that. so it's really, bill, a metaphor for the larger issue in this country. bill: you might be able to call it a show game. maybe that's appropriate. >> i think rick perry ought to stick to oil wells and cattle, maybe that's more his style. and remark the fact of the matter is it is not used for other things, it is exchanged for treasury bills. part of the national debt is social security debt and they do have bonds in the social security system to pay for that.

medicare is a much bigger issue, but the idea of splitting up medicare and medicaid and social security money and sending it to 50 states is the nut iest idea i've heard in a long time. bill: 50 petri dish, 50 labratories and you expand the -- >> that's right, let's have labratories -- >> bill: you have to spend the money and get a return to it doesn't go into a pwhr-bg hole. i've got to run. and remarks i know you're chomping at the bit but we'll get you later in the week and bob, what we'll do is air the segment we do during commercial tile and our viewers will get into that. goodbye bob, good buy andrea. >> happy thanksgiving. bill: to you as well. don't be a turkey. almost 600 people have taken our poll in five minutes, more than 84 percent saying yes, it's in trouble. you can still weigh n. go to the show page, fox news.com/"america's newsroom". maybe perry was on to something there. bob, andrea, thank you. martha.

martha: police say he shot a park ranger during a routine traffic stop and now a major man hunt is on in the rugged terrain of the utah mountains now. we have a new update coming in on this story. we'll bring it to you. bill: the continued backlash over the patdown of the body skaerpb, what our next guest says and why he says none of this works, anyway.

bill: good monday morning, top stories now, a week after election day, new york's 25th congressional district might actually have a winner now, republican ann marie berkel now leading dan mcfay by 567 votes. a day-long rescue drama is now over in china, 29 miners trapped in a flooded coal mine were lifted to safety in the air, nice.

ireland is trying to survive a financial crisis by looking for cash, formally asking europe for an aid package worth tens of billions of dollars. watch how the market reacts to that in a couple of minutes. martha: one of our headlines on the big board there that we're debuting this morning, there is today a major man hunt underway right now for a suspect in the shooting of a park ranger in utah. the search is taking place in a canyon in moab, investigators looking for this man's picture we're about to show you, his name is lance lereah arlano, saying he may be involved in this shooting, and that he will not get away if they have anything to do with it as they check everybody out. listen to this: >> the helicopter woke me up, checked me out, make sure i wasn't a gunman. >> we're on a pretty hot trail now. i feel confident. i think we're going to apprehend the suspect. martha: the mix of rugged terrain and caves in the area are giving the suspect

the upper hand to some extent at this point. park ranger brody young was shot three times in this attack on friday, he is now in the hospital in critical but we can tell you this morning stable condition. the sheriff, sheriff nylon, good morning to you. give us a little background on what you believe happened on friday. >> well, there was a traffic stop that occurred, and during that traffic stop, it ensued with gunfire and to this day we don't have any reason as to why this took place. martha: go ahead, tell me about the hunt, how it's going, and any leads you might have this morning. >> right now, we had a meeting last night where a lot of the staff members, and we're going to expand the search a little bit broader today, the weather yesterday really was a hamper for our search

efforts, so we're just going to continue searching the same area but expanding it. martha: all right, well, we wish him well, we hope that his condition improves in the hospital, park ranger and we hope you find this guy if that's the one you're looking for. sheriff, best of luck on the search. bill: a lot of wide open country out there. he says he did not expect this kind of outrage and there was plenty of it. new reaction, tsa chief john pistole and will the body scanners and patdowns actually stop terrorists? martha: big question this morning. he is the first living service member since vietnam to receive this honor, what a moment that was but this morning, he's recognized in a whole new way. >> this is an incredible time, but it's also kind of a bittersweet time, times like this, because of this day, i lost two dear friends

of mine, and although this is so positive, i would give this back in a second to have my friends with me right now.

bill: quite a day, quite an honor for sal guinta. standing above the trading floor on wall street, doing the honors, ringing the opening bell, this after last week, when the entire country watched him to see the medal of honor and what a day it is for that soldier who served on the ground in afghanistan, recognized for his heroics and making sure that the taliban and al-qaeda fighters did not walk away or run away with the body of an american comrade, an american soldier, juinta stepped in and was rewarded justly so and today the honor continues. 22nd day of november,

1122 -- 11/22, sal guinta, we thank you. martha: a humble soldier and fine young man. we're grateful for that. in the meantime, tsa's administrator reacting to the uproar over enhanced screening procedures at airports. john pistole says his job is to stop terrorists like the alleged christmas day bomb bomber, farouk abdulmutallab, he wants to catch these people before they board the planes. here's the head of tsa on fox & friends. >> the latest intelligence obviously indicates from christmas day that an individual with a nonmetallic bomb that could and should have gone off, frankly, given the concealment and design andesting, would not have been picked up through a metal detector, so the technology machines, which are in airports now, about 400 machines, have the best opportunity to redirect that type of device. if somebody opts out of that, such as abdulmutallab on chris may day could have

if he was here, we want to make sure they have a thorough patdown because that type of device would be discovered and so that flight is safe. martha: is that true? would it have caught him? john brody's group actually sued the department of homeland security last week, he is the director of the open government project and senior counsel at the electronic privacy information center, he knows a lot about this kind of thing, and we welcome you here this morning. you know, what do you make of that? would it have stopped abdulmutallab? >> good morning, martha. it's great to be here. it's a really great question, and in fact, it's the critical question that we need to be asking about this body scanners and the answer is very clearly no. these body scanners are not designed to detect powdered explosives, including petn, the explosive used by the underwear bomber. we obtained through a lawsuit the technical specifications from the tsa, their own documents, that make it clear that these body scanners will detect weapons like guns and knives, they'll detect traditional explosives that

have metal components, but all of those things are defected by -- de tented by metal de terbgts anyway and they do not detect powder explosives. we're not the only ones who believe this, the italian government has removed the body scanners because they know they're ineffective. martha: they had them and got rid of them because they didn't work? >> they got rid of them because they were ineffective and slow, they were clogging up the security line and there was no greater security benefit. martha: you all this whole thing basically a charade, you're saying this is security theater and if that is the case, what on earth are we going through this exercise for, if it's not going to catch people who have these kind of explosives, petn is clearly the favorite weapon of choice at least for now, who knows what's coming next. >> you know, it's an excellent question and i don't have an answer for you. i wish that the tsa had an answer for the american people. you know, we've seen on fox news this morning and our outlets voices from american air travelers who are outraged, who are engaging

in citizen rebellion against this useless security theater. it's clear that these scanners would not detect powdered explosives like the ones used by the underwear bomber. martha: if there's an explosive like this taped to someone's body, they'd have to be in something, so is the something that it's wrapped in, if it's taped under someone's arm pit or even in a code cavity, which -- body cavity which we've seen with drug smugglers and the like, would it pick up that? >> it absolutely does not pick up anything in a body cavity, nothing in someone's rectum, nothing in their mouth, nothing in a body cavity. in materials of the container that the powdered explosive is in, if it's hard, if it's like a bottle, if it's like a metal case, the scanner would absolutely pick that up. martha: but if it's in plastic bags with duct tape? >> no. no. martha: but it would see the bulge of that across somebody's body, no? >> no. what the scanners do is they pick up hard objects that

are held against the body, not soft objects like cloth or tape or plastic. like for example, underwear. martha: all right. >> just wouldn't pick that up. martha: so what's the answer in your opinion? a lot has been said about who should be doing this scanning, what we should be hiring to do this kind of thing and you know, profiling, whether or not it's better to sort of do psychological tests, talk to people as they come through, then sort of say you know what, i think we need to talk to this guy or this woman. >> you know, that's exactly right. the key answer here is intelligence. intelligence information. the underwear bomber had family members and friends who tipped off american intelligence that they thought he was a terrorist. martha: right, exactly. >> he bought his ticket one way with cash. he had all the warning signs of being someone who might be engaged in criminal or terrorist activity, and yet, the american intelligence community and the international intelligence community failed to identify him. we need to spend the $2.4 billion that are going into body scanner program on

intelligence and on making sure that we search the people who need to be searched and not every american who walks into an airport. martha: you know what, at this point i don't have to -- to tell you there's no suggestion that is the direction it's going in. >> there is not a suggestion that that's going in from the tsa, however if you listen to president obama, to secretary of state clinton, if you listen to the american people and congressional leaders on this issue, they are demanding answers to find out why the tsa is engaging in these grotesque acts and searching every american air traveler as if they were a suspected terrorist instead of just a normal every day american going about their business. martha: does the outrage help? if people opt out of this, if they -- i mean, we're getting unbelievable e-mails from people saying forget this, this is not the american way, we're not going to live like this, we're not going to do it. >> i ask the american travelers to stay outraged, keep telling your news stories and opt out. >> very interesting and let us know how this goes with your lawsuit and if you get

anywhere with that edoo we'd like to have you back and tell us more. bill he has really moved to the forefront of this issue and pretty good talker, too. martha: he makes excellent points. bill: interesting to talk to him on wednesday when we get reaction from the travelers heading out. getting the thanksgiving feast might cost you core. gas prices are up, if you haven't noticed yet, start. the average price of gasoline, 2.89, up 21 since august, analysts blaming higher prices on temporary shutdowns of refineries and on the weaker value to the u.s. dollar. that story has been creeping up for a while now. now on the radar. fox news alert, this is on the radar, too, dublin ireland, check out the protestsry with -- we are seeing in central dublin, the protests launched against the irish banks and the trouble they find themselves in now. ireland has asked for a european bailout. it looks like they'll get that. possibly to the tune of more than $100 billion for ireland. details have not been announced, they're not

official, but that's what many of the reporting has been with regard to dublin. could not pick out what they were saying but the protests on the street of dublin. stocks are up 64 points in trading here on this side of the atlantic. martha: from greece, to france, and now to dublin, as it's sort of creeped across the western world, and we'll see what happens here as we start to crack down on some of these expenditures as well, and in the meantime, an international terror plot at a bargain price. al-qaeda is bragging about the price tag of its cargo plane bomb operation. >> and the mortgage giants that you know to love, fannie and freddie at the center of the financial meltdown, what republicans now promise to do about freddie mac and fannie mae. is this the right idea? martha: not a minute too

soon, right?

>> how fun is that! >> it was all so real back then! martha: drinking glasses, with some of your kids' superheroes may not be so super for their health. this turns now to be not such a fun story, steadies find some of the glasses exceed the federal limit phos lead by 1000 times? it's the paint on the outside of the glasses. they depict comic book and movie characters such as

superman and wonder woman and the tin man and the wizard of oz, the glasses made in china, federal regulators worrying the toxic chemicals rub on the kids' hands, could get in their mouths. we're going to have to take away that glass! bill: you always get me! it's operation hemorrhage, a magazine affiliated with al-qaeda reporting the terror group wanted to, quote, bleed the u.s. economy when it targeted cargo planes about a month ago, al-qaeda in the arabian pen lanes boasting it sent $4200 on the plot that parked the national security scare. this was in print, folks. jamie smith, former cia officer and president of ftg international, a global security firm, good morning jamie. is al-qaeda or its affiliates ever gone to print wit its intent to specifically spell out how little money it spends to send a scare throughout the western world? >> good morning, bill.

i think they named it operation hemorrhage because that's what's happening to al-qaeda. the fact that al-qaeda is resorting to keeper plots with fewer working parts, i believe what it says to the united states is two things, that the united states and our allies are winning the war against al-qaeda, and they're having to do this because every time they try to put together a large plot with lots of moving parts and lots of resources extended we wind up capturing and killing these people so now they're going to resort to smaller amounts of money and using fewer and fewer people, and we have to remember that this is not a limitless organization. they're limited in their funding, they're limited in their intelligence personnel, and i didn't say intelligence, but their smart peep, the people you can actually count on to carry all this through. bill: you turn this around and suggest the fact that they went to print with a lot of sarcasm, by the way that, i'll get to in a moment, you suggested that shows that we're winning

this. >> i do. you know, there was a news story that came out today about inspire making the comment that it was death by a thousand cuts, making a reference towards an economic hit on the united states. and what i believe really is going on here is that inspire is really nothing more than a propaganda arm of al-qaeda, and what they've done, they're a student of the media, and they're looking at, they're watching our response to this attack back earlier this month, and they're seeing this and saying we got to make something out of this, because it was a total failure, so what they're trying to do is look at our response with the tsa and all of the patdown -- patdown security issues rand all of this and saying look, we intended for this to take place, we meant for this to happen but what they're really trying to do is take advantage of the media coverage, take advantage of our reaction to this and make it look as though they intended that to take place. bill: this is one of bin laden's stated intentions from the very beginning when this war started, was that he wanted to get the united states to go bankrupt or to hurt it financially, and in this article, it talks about

the death of a thousand cuts, to bleed the enemy to death with more frequent operations that will force the u.s. government to spend billions of dollars on screening measures. and that's what we are doing now. >> right. that's true, bill, but you know, we can't go back and say that this was bin laden's plan from the beginning. you know, it's always going to be your battle strategy to defeat your enemy to the point where you kill off all of the bad guys, orioo and you start to shut their funding down. we did that in world war ii with germany. so that's always going to be the battle strategy of any force against the other. what they're doing now, i believe, is taking advantage of the fact that we are responding to the way the united states always responds to something like this, with a knee jerk reaction where we shut the barn door after the horse is out the door. the patent security issue we're apply to go this particular subject is the wrong way to go.

we need to move in the direction of the israelis with an enhanced intelligence and an enhanced screening and an enhanced profiling as oppose to they're trying to -- >> bill: there are others who have come on our program and argued the same thing, saying we're a day late, dollar short and all of this stuff, we need to get ahead of them and anticipate the next tactic as opposed to reiting to the past one. i'll give you the final word and i've got to run. by the way, i mentioned that sarcasm, the article said the british government says if a toner weighs more than a pound, it stays off the plane. do you think we have nothing to send but printers? end quote. jamie. >> that goes to my point about our reaction to these attacks. they're going to continue to do this, they're going to continue to attack us, and they are going to go cheaper and they're going to go with simpler plots and again, it's because we're winning. we beat them out of pakistan, they're having to move to yemen because they cannot operate with impugnty

in pakistan any longer so i believe the message to the american people is we're winning and al-qaeda is suffering, and they're having to do this because they realize that that -- realize their only defeated side of the coin. bill: $200 for nokia phones, 200 buck phos shipping printers, transportation, miscellaneous expenses, total bill of $4200. it's an incredible article to read. jamie, thank you for your time. let's stay a step ahead of them, always. thanks. got a question about this? hemmer, fox news.com is the e-mail address, also on twitter, bill hemmer, we're taking questions on this and anything else that is on your mind, that's got you curious, bya, because you asked. martha: all right. this news just coming out of the aruba story. remember about the jawbone that was found by a tourist on an aruban beach last week? of course, raising instant concerns about whether or not it could be the jawbone of natalee holloway, so they sent it to the netherlands to have it tested. the word we're getting now is they're going to make an announcement on this tuesday

afternoon, we'll know whether or not that jawbone belonged to natalee holloway, was part of natalee holloway's body but interesting, they said it's been in this forensic lab since monday and if it had belonged to an animal they would have discounted that and figured that out right away which leaves people to believe it is a human jawbone and they're analyzing it against her dental records to figure out whether or not it is hers. so it could be an interesting development, we'll find out something tomorrow afternoon. bill they took it back to the netherlands for testing. we'll see then. in a moment here, an increase to your taxes to reduce the decifit, does that work? is it a formula for success? stephen moore of the "wall street journal" has gone back over history. wait until you hear his analysis. martha: new details on serious engine problems on three different planes. right before the busy holiday season. we'll be right back, have a look at that.

>> ♪ >> ♪ >> ♪ martha: we need a little christmas, bill hemmer! bill: i think that should be the new theme song, right? then we'll get really sick of it and trash it. martha: we'll blast that in, it will be good. if you are getting a jump on the holiday shopping season as we are trying to do here, fox news -- folks waited until black friday last centy, folks, and now

websites has deals and bargains way ahead of thanksgiving. some of the biggest retailers are not too happy about this and steve brown has been making a list, checking it out twice in chicago and it appears it's an example of of the internet making life a lot easier, right, but not everybody agrees. >> well, some retailers put an awful lot of money into newspaper, radio and television ads this week, leading up until friday, hyping what would be their super, top of the line deal for the early birds that get out the day after thanksgiving and go shopping. well now there are websites which compile all that stuff so you don't need to buy that one # pound newspaper, you don't necessarily need to watch all of the ads on television during the football games on thanksgiving, you don't necessarily have to turn on the raid oerbgs retailers are saying hey, we're spending a lot of money on this advertising and now somebody is putting it out there on the web but there are retailers that are getting on board with this. >> talk to me about the advantage of this. some of the stores are

seeing this because of all of this, steve. >> because the internet drives so many people to -- similarly minded people towards a particular place, places like fat wallet compile all of the sales into one particular location and the retailers are getting on board, according to fat wallet owner tim storm. >> we've got over a million registered users. looking at, say, thanksgiving day, we'll have 20,000 people logged on at any one time. >> and because they have so many people at this particular website there are retail theirs don't mind quite so much if their sales get leaked there and there are some that kind of leak it to places like this. it's a bigger bang for their buck to get a few more folks through the door on that big day after thanksgiving. martha: good to know. steve, thank you very much. steve brown with the early shopping picks from chicago this morning. bill: called fat wallet? >> martha: fat wallet. bill: a lot of us are going to have a skinnier wallet

come december. in a moment, a major shutdown, raising new security concerns, where this is happening and why there are concerns at home because of it, coming up. martha: and hillary clinton sounding off on some very big issues over the weekend, she talked about the tsa patdown controversy, terror trials and she talked about afghanistan. is there something more, perhaps, presidential sound to go her comments? we're going to be right back. stay with us.

martha: we're just learning there will be an ano. tomorrow about -- announcement tomorrow, about whether or not the jawbone, found on an aruban beach is natalee holloways, they know it's not the jawbone of an animal and it is human, and we'll get information whether or

not they can trace to it her and the news will be coming, 24 hours from now. and we'll keep on top of any developments in that story. martha: a terror alert in the heart of a key american ally. sections of the parliament building in berlin, germany have been shut down, over security concerns. and, this came just hours after a german magazine report that claimed al qaeda had a plot that was in the works there, so we're keeping an eye on that as well on a busy morning, brands new hour of "america's newsroom," we're glad to have you with us, i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. good morning, germany's top brass saying the report is complete speculation and nevertheless, that report is being taken seriously this morning. martha: greg burke is standing by live in rome, does the parliament shut down have anything to do with the magazine report, greg? >> reporter: martha, it certainly does have to do with the report. and, people over the weekend saying there was an initial report last week saying germany was in a new situation, and, when it went onto high alert and

the situation became newer and more specific, when they pointed out the target as being the reichstag, and, the german parliament and, also a major tourist attraction, 3 million people a year visiting there and, clearly, the german security forces taking this threat seriously, because it has been closed down now and no word when it will be open again and, spiegel was onto good material and, the police at this point are trying to figure out how credible the informant, source is, giving them information, but, at this point, they have got to err on the safe side and are certainly doing that by closing down the monument, martha. martha: thank you very much, greg burke, reporting from rome, this morning. bill: closer to home, three delta airlines jets making emergency landings over the weekend after separate engine mishaps. among them a moscow-bound boeing 767, more than 200 people on

board. that plane landing safely at jfk airport, in new york city, after losing thrust from the left engine, shortly after take-off. here's passengers now, on board: >> we were flying, and we were making circles around the ocean, dropping down the fuel and then we landed. bill: in the end, everybody was okay. and rick leventhal is looking into all three incidents. >> reporter: they say bad things happen in threes and you don't need to tell that to delta, after the trifecta of troubles over the weekend, starting with the moscow bound 767 taking off from j.f.k. just after 4:30 yesterday arch and then, possibly hitting a bird, losing thrust in the left engine. >> delta 30, declaring an emergency. >> do you see smoke coming out of the number one engine. >> we saw a flash, departing the

aircraft. >> we saw flashes, some people thought it was a bird, and some people it was fire. we weren't sure what was going on and then, a few minutes later, the pilot announced that we had an engine failure. >> reporter: the pilots maintained control and passengers stayed calm, and the flight returned safely, but, more troubles in atlanta, less than an hour after the j.f.k. incident, a boeing 767 on its way to los angeles was forced to turn around and head back to hartsfield international, because of another reported engine problem, and the plane scraped its tail during landing. meanwhile, on saturday a paris bound 757 with more than 160 people on board made an emergency landing in shannon, ireland after having problems with an engine, and the flight originated in philadelphia and delta says it believes the compressor stall may have caused the incident and the airline tweeting to its customers after last night's mishap at j.f.k., saying flight 30, declared an emergency and returned to j.f.k.

after a crew reported engine issue and landed safely and passenger, being react dated. now, according to the -- reaccommodated, and, they said their fleet of 767s had a higher number of engine shut downs in flight this year and the company spokesman says the number never exceeded the threshold of what was acceptable. keep that in mind, bill. bill: thanks for that they come in threes, as we see now, rick leventhal in new york. martha: i is provocative but not a surprise. from the u.s. special envoy to north korea, after the renegade regime claimed it has a new atomic facility, the defense department saying the facility could give pyongyang the ability to build several more nuclear devices than they already have. envoy steven bosworth saying it is disappointing, a live report is coming up from the pentagon on the hot story, minutes from now, here on "america's newsroom." bill: and meanwhile republicans on the hill say, no more federal

money for fannie mae and freddie mac. a republican leader -- republican leaders will end the bail out of fannie mae and freddie mac, a major goal for the next congress, what about this, can they be successful? dagen mcdowell from the fox business network with us now. good morning, dagen. >> good morning, bill. bill: lay out the strategy. >> it would be to take fannie mae and freddie mac out of the government's hands. and, put it into the hands of the private sector. we have heard that from congressman baucus and hensarling, and, now the u.s. government and the american taxpayer control the mortgage market, nine out of ten, every new mortgage made, 90% of new mortgages are touched in some way, by the federal government. bill: the taxpayer could be on the hook for how much, if fannie mae and freddie mac have issues. >> so far, $134 billion and could be well more than double

that. but, bill, anybody who virtually anybody who gets a mortgage today, is getting a subsidy from the federal government. the fact that fannie mae and freddie mac are there, touching these mortgages either guaranteeing them or buying them, means they are getting a lower mortgage rate and means they are -- lending standards aren't as ties and is something all tax -- as tight and all taxpayers have to decide if they'll give it up. bill: and what do you go to, if you get rid of fannie mae and freddie mac, because it was not part of the regulation reform. >> this was a frankenstein in the making, starting with fannie in the 1930s and would be the dysfunction of creating liquidity in the mortgage market and making more -- take it out of the hands of the government and the biggest problem was, with fannie mae and freddie mac, is it was both a private and public quasi-monster. where there were private companies but, essentially

backed by the federal government and we found out how backed they are. bill: thank you, there will be more on this, certainly. you guys are following it closely at our sister network, fox business network and watch the story, early january. and we'll see whether or not the republicans make room on it or head way on it. thank you, dagen. >> thank you. bill: you got it. martha: a new development natalee holloway story, a piece of a jawbone was found on a beach in aruba and it was sent tor dental analysis to the netherlands and, dr. michael bodin, is on the phone, good morning, good to talk to you. >> good morning. martha: what do you expect we'll hear tomorrow afternoon and what kind of analysis would be happening now on the piece of bone. >> they've probably completed the dna and they've done the dental comparisons a few days ago, which would have told them right away, whether it is her or

not and they've completed the dna and they'll tell you, one, it is truly a human mandible and it belongs to her, and if it is someone else, that person has to be investigated, who the person is and how the person died. martha: how reliable would the testing be. >> oh, the dental x-rays, that you and i take, from our dentist is like a finger print. between the tooth and the bone around the tooth, the tooth socket, is unique. so, they should have known from comparing her dental records, with the bone, within a few hours, after an x-ray, whether or not it is her. but, they probably want to also complete the dna studies. martha: which makes sense, and any thought, you know, in your mind about whether or not you think this will be a positive finding. >> i think that the more information that comes, the more

posit could be. you know, i have spoken with john kelly, from the family, the attorney and they have been down -- the family has been down so many blind alleys, they are reluctant to pin their hopes on getting some kind of solution to what happened to her. either way, it is bad news for the family. but, what will also be important is that the aruba people would have been able to determine whether the bone came from the water, that she was put in the water, or, buried on the island. and dug up, perhaps, by an animal or something. and, if it is buried on the island, they certainly have to find the other bones, and to see if they can determine the cause of death, even after five years. because this doesn't tell you the cause of death. one of the things, martha, the new technology now, the dental pulp, of the tooth, can be tested toxicologically for drugs and the possibility of them

looking for date rape drug or something exists. martha: fascinating. we will see, we'll find out, just less than a day from now. if indeed that jawbone is natalee holloways and would begin the next stage of answering a lot of questions in this case... >> still a lot of questions. martha: dr. baden, appreciate your calling in. bill: five years later, you can test the tooth and find out whether or not something was inside the body. martha: incredible. bill: and, a tourist apparently found it on the beach and brought it to the hotel desk and said, what is this? and the hotel called police, right way and that got all of this going. martha: and, loren van der sloot in a peruvian prison, on charges for another murder. we'll see what happens. bill: there are many pits and strikes on this, and we'll get the announcement one way or the other tomorrow, a drop in emergency room visits for babies and toddlers and has nothing do with healthier kids. why is that, we wonder.

martha: in the hole for a couple of trillion dollars? raise taxes, that will of the problem, why history shows the theory is dead wrong, we'll give you the facts, just ahead. bill: hillary clinton sounding off from airline security to terror trials, to the warnings ongoing, a busy day you wonder or something else at play. >> i believe what i'm doing now is in furtherance of that and i'm very proud and grateful to be doing it. martha: you are done with elective office? pwpwpspwpspw@a

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bill: new study finding a big drop in emergency room visits for babies and toddlers. government research findings that since cough and cold medicines were removed from the shelves, e.r. visits for young children dropped more than 50%. that study after manufacturers agreed to pull over-the-counter cough and cold products for kids under the age of 2. because of potentially life-threatening side effects. >> everybody is trying to do the right thing, and i understand how difficult it is, and how offensive it must be for the people going through it. >> final question, my time is up, but would you submit to one of these pat-downs. >> not if i could avoid it. no, i mean, who would! martha: the sound bite of the day today, hillary clinton running the gamut on the sunday shows, out there enforce, talking about everything from

enhanced tsa screenings, which you heard there, to whether or not she'll run in 2012, which is becoming an increasing topic of conversation these days, richard goodstein was an advisor to hillary clinton during the presidential run in '08 and, a former advisor to hillary clinton and a fox news contributor, we got together folks who know hillary and have a background of working for her. good to see you both. >> good morning. >> good morning. martha: let's tell you what she said to chris wallace when she was asked about 2012 and i want your thoughts on it. let's listen. >> i am committed to doing what i can to advance the security, the interest and the values of the united states of america. i believe that what i'm doing, right now, is in furtherance of that and i'm proud and grateful to be duoing it. martha: you are done with elected office. >> i am, and i'm happy doing what i am doing and am not interested in pursuing anything in elected office. martha: there you have it, richard. she says no. she said no a million times.

but for some reason no one wants to let it go at that. >> with respect to 2012, i honestly think that it is a fantasy, largely on the right, that she might challenge president obama. you know, it would be very exciting in some quarters to see that happen, but politically is not in the cards, people forget the fact the president is very, very, very popular among democrats and actually, his standing in the public kicked up the past week or so, hillary clinton happens to be phenomenally popular. she's 65-35 favorable-unfavorable and, when you take yourself out of politics, people more assess you on the merits and she's a more formidable person and if you listen to her literally, she says she's out of electoral politics and that is true for 2012, 2016, that's a long way off. martha: folks say 2016 is what she has her eye on, what do you

think. >> i absolutely agree with richard, that 2012 is a fantasy. i think that it is also not in her nature to go from defending and representing the administration, so passionately to run against the president but 2016, we can all dream, right? 71 is the new 60, perhaps... martha: let's hope so, right. >> given my informal polling i've done on social media, the people who want her to run, that number is increasing, and, that drum beat is not going to stop. martha: we said her comments were sounding present decks yesterday, and let's listen to another one, and get your thoughts on it. >> we have been very clear about this. that the transition to afghan security lead begins knicks year in 2011. it is conditions-based and where it can happen, at what pace it can happen, how many troops can be substituted for, that is what general petraeus and the military leaders will be working

onto recommend to the president and the leaders of other countries. martha: that was on afghanistan and she weighed in on the issue of terror trials in new york and left the door open, for the possibility that they could go back to the military tribunal and she was notably be a sent during the entire election process and she was in cambodia on election day in fact and now she's back, gangbusters and is talking a wide variety of topics. you know, that are not limited to her position of secretary of state. >> yes. but you noticed yesterday when he was asked about politics, she studiously avoided getting into the ticket. and look, she's secretary of state. for her to be flitting around the globe, this is her job and no one should attach where she is on election day, her job takes her to the four corners of the globe. but the fact of the matter is, when you say she sounds

presidential, we saw it during the campaign, she is in command of the facts and is articulate and, doesn't have to look at her hand for crib sheet notes and this is a woman who is uncommonly talented and that is coming across and we forget that when she's not in the public eye. martha: we gotcha. richard, thank you, and we have to leave it there. we're out of time. a lot of speculation, i guess that will continue for some time. on the topic. bill: would make a wonderful, delicious, juicy story! right, tailor-made for cable news! some cities, so cash strapped they can't afford the basic services that you are used to. is outsourcing the answer? we'll take you to a california town trying to figure that out. martha: plus, he's an architect behind president obama's historic road to the white house but at home david axelrod and his wife have been fighting a different battle. that story, straight ahead. fy÷@>m9

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martha: tragedy to tell you about, a little boy, toddler, 2-3 years old, died, after he fell out of a luxury suite, the third tier at a lakers game, it happened last night and the word has come in now, the little boy

passed away and our thoughts and prayers are with his family, in a tragic, tragic ending to a tough story that came out last night. bill: awful, the game against golden state, staples center, new react to the report north korea has a new reactor that could speed up its ability to make nuclear weapons. u.s. special envoy steven bosworth saying the news is disappointing. but not necessarily a crisis. jennifer griffin is watching this, live at the pentagon, how dangerous is the development? >> reporter: bill, we have new satellite imagery of the facility where the enriched uranium is, the centrifuges are located, siegfried hecker, saw on november 12th, saw for himself, a thousand centrifuges that cone rich uranium, to weapons-grade and the north koreans say they have 2,000 centrifuges and secretary gates

who is traveling in bolivia says it could be used to make several nuclear devices, listen to admiral mullen on the sunday talk shows, just yesterday. >> well, this validates our longstanding concern we've had with respect to now, and its enrichment of uranium. it also continues to validate a country that is led by a dictator who is constantly -- constantly desires to destabilize the region. and he's done that again, certainly, with this capability, as well and certainly, the development of nuclear weapons is a huge concern. for all of us. those in the region as well as those around the globe. >> reporter: now there is some talk among administration officials about returning tactical nuclear weapons to south korea. bill? bill: historically, the administration is not always taking seriously the pursuit of a highly-enriched uranium program. is that still the case,

jennifer? >> reporter: take for example the interview that my colleague, james rosen did with secretary of state hillary clinton. last year. in february, 2009. in it, she clearly down played the possibility that the north koreans had a highly-enriched uranium facility. take a listen: >> i don't have any doubt that they would try whatever they possibly could. have they? i don't know that. and nobody else does, either. >> reporter: yet, bill, christopher hill who was a special envoy to north korea had one year before testified to congress that in fact they found aluminum tubes that had been bought from germany and those tubes are only used in the enrichment of uranium. so, it is hard to imagine that secretary clinton didn't know about this enrichment. bill: jennifer griffin, thank you, from the pentagon, there will be developments throughout this day and we'll be in touch with you. thanks, jennifer, here's martha.

martha: how about the plan to solve the ballooning deficit, create new taxes? why not, right? raise them, more than we have, while we're at it and the next expert says forget the idea. history will show us why that is note answer, when we come back. @ñçm@;

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bill: some inside the beltway believe higher and newer taxes are a quick fix for the bulging deficit. right now, the but deficit commission proposing a half trillion dollars in new taxes. to close the $10 trillion gap and those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it, they say. that is what my next guest argues, stephen moore, senior writer for the "wall street journal," good morning, stephen. you crunched a lot of numbers going back to world war ii and did it with an economics professor from ohio university, athens, ohio. what did you concluded. >> concluded what p. j. o'rourke said, giving new taxes to politicians is like giving a bottle of booze and car keys to a teenager. it doesn't turn out well and we found, every time the last 75 years, or so, bill we have raised taxes, the money has almost never been used to reduce the deficit, almost always has been used to increase taxes and so, remember, last week, when we talked about this idea of a

national sales tax to bring the deficit down, what our data shows clearly, bill, is if we had a -- you know, 6 or 7%, national sales tax, congress would not use that money to reduce the deficit, they'd use it to spend more money. bill: you say the more money the government takes in the more it spends and government has never gotten smaller, only bigger, over time. >> exactly and what we are saying is that, politicians, when they see a new rush of revenues, they don't use that money to retire debt. they use it to increase spending, there is no shortage of things they want to spend money on. and bridges to nowhere. bill: there's a long list from your desk to washington, d.c. to ours in new york city. but let's talk pure numbers, for every dollar the government has in tax, the government spends a buck-13? >> isn't that amazing. not only do they spend the extra dollar that comes in, they spend 13 cents more than the extra dollar and what our study shows is increasing taxes, bill,

believe it or not makes the deficit worse. bill: does the government ever spend more than a buck-13 or is that the median range. >> that is the median range and there were times in the 1950s and 1960s, when they have spent 1.50 and now we are only spending 1.05 and used to spend -- >> just a nickel going out this other door but there was a period of time the end of the last decade where the situation did not amount to what you are explaining now. the second half of bill clinton's term what was different with washington? that bucks what you are saying today. >> what was different is for the first time in about 50 years, we cut the budget, for a short time, remember when we had the republican revolution back in 1995-96, and got the budget under control and put tough spending restraints on and, that combination of spending restraint and strong economic growth we had in the clinton

years we had -- remember that, bill? it is hard to believe, ten years ago we had a $200 billion budget surplus. bill: i lot of the revenue was from the stock market, i bet, there was a lot more money going into washington and -- than had been previously. stephen, an interesting read, i encourage people to check it out, okay, from "wall street journal," our friend, stephen moore. >> take care. bill: martha. martha: diplomacy and partisan politics small stuff, really compared to a life and death fight on the home front. just ahead, a look at the softer side of the president's right-hand man, david axelrod's most important battle. susan axelrod is here with us today. next. lp

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martha: all right, welcome back, everybody, now we turn to something we don't often bring you during a busy morning of breaking news in "america's newsroom." but as we enter this week of thanksgiving, we would like to brendaing you a story that we think is going to, for one thing, show you another side of a man you hear a lot about, over here on fox news and throughout the political spectrum, david axelrod is one of the most powerful campaign strategists really in political history. and, he's of course one of president obama's fearest defenders, and, loyal allies in the work that he does in washington and his belief in the president and his loyalty to him is of course, widely known and what is not widely known is that one of the toughest battles of david axelrod's life has been fought at home where he and his wife, susan have guided strategy

for and fiercely defended their daughter, lauren and it is a beautiful story and we think any parent or anybody who loves a child, can relate to this story. take a listen: >> i get excited when i try new paintings. >> reporter: this is lauren axelrod. she's the daughter of david axelrod. president obama's closest advisor, and the architect behind the president's historic 2008 campaign. but far away from his political success in the world of washington, d.c., is a family life that has been filled with challenges. >> look at you, what are you painting? nice. >> beautiful. >> reporter: david and his wife, susan have struggled to help their 29-year-old daughter, live a normal life. >> i was thinking a flower one. >> you don't like this? okay. back in the bag. i lost. >> reporter: seeing her healthy is a dream come true for them.

in the wake of a very long nightmare. lauren has a severe case of 0 epilepsy. she has had it since the day she came down with a bad cold when she was 7 months old. her pediatrician prescribed a small dose of cold medicine and even today, susan wonders if it caused the onset of her daughter's disease. >> at that time, they didn't make pediatric formulas and a gave her a quarter of an adult dose and she seemed to sleep through the night and i thought, this is unusual but she has been up several nights in a row, and i went into her bedroom, and looked into her crib and she was just blue and listless. >> tiny little baby, you know, and all of a sudden were one arm went back and eyes rolled back and it was frightening. >> she was foam, at ting at the

and, making a guttering sound and i called my mom and, i said do babies do this and she said no, get her to the e.r. and they identified it as a seizure. >> they weren't alarmed as we were alarmed, they said it is probably a febrile seizure. martha: happens with a high fever in an infant. >> right, only... >> she didn't have a high fever. >> reporter: lauren was admitted and the seizures didn't stop. they kept coming. sometimes five times a day. and the doctors couldn't figure out how to stop them. >> and a month later, they released us from the hospital, and they said, well, we have done what we can. they told us, at that time, well, don't worry, these seizures will not damage your child and sadly, we learned, after, the fact, that it wasn't the case, and these seizures were doing tremendous damage to her. >> especially when seizures, with that severity and that

quantity, when they happen in the brain, the developing brain, under age 2 it really wreaks havoc with development. >> what are you doing? >> my class is not over yet. >> reporter: months later, she was diagnosed with epilepsy. >> how do you go from that wonderful feeling of being a young couple, having your first baby, and life is not what we thought. >> it is a lonely feeling, no one could give us answers, we didn't know anybody else, at that time, who was going through it. >> we held out hope because, the one thing we kept hearing was, she may outgrow this by age five. and, even as serious as her condition is and each birthday, each events we held our breath and thought, okay. you know... >> and you think, is it ending. >> exactly. exactly. >> instead, the attacks intensified. coming in clusters, and, the

only treatment, large doses of medicine, that sometimes put lauren into a coma-like state. >> she would grab susan's hand in between and would entreat, mom, make them stop and go back into the seizures and -- >> horrible for everybody. >> yeah. >> she'd sit there and cry. because, there was nothing we could do for her. you know? >> when she was about ten, there was a particular incident, she started dropping the "s" in every word when she'd read to me and i thought we were dealing with a learning disability and a bizarre thing, and, she finally said, seizures start with "s" and if i don't say that maybe they won't happen. >> reporter: the attacks held her back from school and she didn't go to birthday parties or most other activities and her two younger brothers, michael and ethan suffered in a

different way. >> family vacations would be scrapped and sometimes family vacations would be ruined. and, if you are a young child, you know, you can't help but resent that. but, then, on the other hand, you ask a sibling of someone with a chronic illness and you say, it must have been hard and they say, it was a lot harder on my sister but the truth is, it is hard on everybody. >> i feel... tired. >> reporter: by the time she sender 15 she was on 20 different kinds of drugs. various experimental therapies and special diets and the seizures, kept coming. now, up to 25 times a day. that was when they decided to try surgery. >> they had to drill holes into her skull and plant electrodes through those holes directly on the surface of the brain and put grids of eegs in there and

withdraw medications to bring on seizures. >> they had her in intensive care and she was so bloated she was unrecognizable and it was a miserable thing. >> reporter: worst of all, it didn't work. david and susan decided to look for their own answers. >> this year we received 108... >> reporter: susan and other parents founded a nonprofit called the citizens united for research in epilepsy. or, the cure. >> our focus has really been, let's try and truly, once and for all start to understand the disease, and approach it for rationally and not just think about the seizures. >> reporter: they've given out more than 100 research grants, worldwide. >> the money that you raise, do you so progress. >> the initial impact we had is to really change the conversation. the focus from looking at just stopping seizures to looking at what is the disease process here. why do they start, why do 2/3 of them, we have no idea why they

start, why are fully 40% uncontrollable? why are they sometimes going into remission and return? her doctor... >> this is a preposterous idea. you cannot just start a national research foundation. what i learned is what i should have realized from the beginning, which is, that there is nothing like the power of moms who are heart broken and committed and hell bent on making a difference. >> reporter: then, in 2000, a breakthrough. lauren was in the hospital with another severe seizure attack when her doctor told susan about a new anti-convulsive drug called kepra. >> immediately, she responded to it. >> reporter: just a few days later, the seizures stopped. >> i have seen change in the period she has been on the drug. >> it has been amazing, really, the further away she gets from the seizures the more you see

who she really is and her intellectual capacity has improved dramatically. >> what is this? >> look at this, over here, you are see you are a genius. >> reporter: you see the drug is working for her and months go by, you are overjoyed. >> but still always waiting for the other shoe to drop, i mean, still... >> calls in the middle of the night -- >> that's it. >> reporter: david and susan have something else to worry about. >> all of a sudden we were staring at our own mortality and realized if she lived with us, for the rest of our lives, that she could be, you know, 40, 45 years old and all of a sudden... >> alone. >> and, we just didn't want to -- didn't want her to have to cope with that and we started looking for, you know, a better answer.

martha: tomorrow we'll tell you about that answer was, for the axelrod family, a place, a very special place we visited there and that is where lauren axelrod lives, humbly, right now and we are glad to be joined on the set by susan axelrod. welcome. >> thank you. martha: i want to thank you for sharing your story and you opened up your family to us and we're grateful for that and thanks for all the wonderful pictures. it has been quite a journey. as we have seen, and, you have done an amazing job of bringing this disease to people so we can start to understand it. >> yeah. it is for many, many reasons, this disease has been really kept in the dark ages, and epilepsy has been known since biblical times and yet nobody has been out there saying, why, why is this happening and what can we do to stop it and it has been an amazing ride. martha: you said and david said a stigma was attached to

epilepsy. >> there is definitely a stigma and one of the things that this program and other awareness campaigns we have been able to executes the last couple of years have really allowed people to come out and say, i have epilepsy, there is nothing to be ashamed of. this is a condition of the brain. and, a complicated one, and that makes it harder. martha: the group you founded is called "cure" and we have the web site on the screen, cureepilepsy.org and go to the web site to get more information about this and what struck me, i learned from you and from this, it can happen to anybody at any moment in their lives. >> absolutely. many people believe it just happens in childhood. and in fact it can happen to any of us and that is why the research is so important. one of the populations we're most concerned about, here and beyond is our soldiers. who are returning with traumatic brain injuries. vietnam war studies showed fully 53% of those people developed epilepsy after penetrating head

injuries. and this is an area where we could potentially prevent the onset of something, because we know those people are -- >> the research, you have raised millions of dollars and brought a tremendous amount of attention to this. how is it going in terms of research? are we learning anything based on all of this? >> it is so complex, so, yes, we are starting to make progress. and epilepsy as a dedicated field of research is relatively new and science as we know, all of us, in advocacy, know it can make breakthroughs but i think definitely, we are making progress. this is a complex problem, the causes are multiple. martha: will anybody ever be able to answer the question, to you, what happened to lauren when she was 7 months old? >> i am afraid not a very clear answer, the genetic work that is going on may lead to answers in that. and i think she was genetically pre-disposed to have the problem and something was going to

trigger it. martha: talk to me -- we enjoyed meeting her, the producer, rachel and i got to meet her and we'll show a lot of that tomorrow, about how she's doing and we see in this piece the early stages but she's a lovely young woman and she's rail blossoming. >> at age 18 we thought we were going to lose her and this drug, happened to work after 20 drugs failed. and, the seizure freedom has allowed her brain to totally calm down and we have watched all sorts of improvement in her cognition and memory, and, most importantly, her happiness and her, i think, security. she's not afraid of the next seizure with every, single day she wakes up and -- >> and she gives you guys a hard time once in a while. and we'll see more of that, what life is like, tomorrow and susan, thank you so much. >> thank you for the opportunity. martha: thanks for opening your family to us and we hope that everybody at home has a ber sense of the disease and what needs to be done to find a cure

you have worked so hard for. >> we welcome everybody to help in the effort. martha: go to our foxnews.com web site and there's lots of places to connect to this story, cureepilepsy.o cureepilepsy.org, you can help, this thanksgiving season by clicking on that, and getting involved and contributing to that as well and tomorrow we'll look at the inspiring part of the story and i never visited a place like this in my life and will be inspiring and encouraging to everybody and we'll have more on that. thank you so much. >> thank you. call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. you don't get 100% daily value of any vitamins. unless you do this. but total is the cereal that gives you 100% daily value of 11 essential vitamins and minerals and crunchy oat clusters.

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bill: overwhelmed by debt, california putting a noose around its neck, one town, looking to outsource part of its government don't mean to giggle. in san francisco, what gives? >> here's the situation, bill. with dozens of local governments throughout california facing huge deficits experts predict that eventually cities, as we know them, may cease to exist. >> one of the problems, particularly here in california, is people don't want new taxes, and they don't want nine government -- don't want big government but they still want all of their government service. sue: an expert on municipal

bankruptcy, they argue cities have three tough choices, disincorporate and cease to exist, an option that happened in half moon bay or blend with neighbors, a mayor is considering merging fremont and newark city. with one city manager instead of three, one corporation instead of five, it could save millions. the third option is sharing services or outsourcing. >> to say maybe we don't need our own fire department and in fact maybe a county-wide fire department would deliver better services for everyone at lower cost. >> reporter: even in struggling half moon bay city leaders welcome the challenge to fix broken budgets. >> if you look across the country there's a political wave and enough taxes, but go back, do something different. you know, corporations do this all the time. i think it's a challenge for cities to do that now. >> reporter: of course,

local governments could simply spend and do less, but if residents demand the same services with no tax increases, one result could be fewer individual cities, more mergers, and perhaps, bill, new names on the map. back to you. bill bi-unbelieve afpblt claude kwrarbgs good luck out there in california. you know, we're all praying for you people! >> thank you. bill: you know? martha: looks like they're going to need it. bill: big old pile of did the out there. thanks, claudia, from san francisco. great job with david axelrod. >> it was a great experience for us and great to meet lauren. i can't wait for part two because you get to know lauren as an adult. bill: a beautiful young lady. martha: she is. bill: it's a great opportunity for us to share this story with our viewers. thanks to the axelrods. we've got to run, everybody. make it a great monday. kind of a short holiday week here. everybody is in a good mood. martha: everybody getting ready for a big turkey day. >> and the