alisyn: that's a good one. "happening now" starts right now. bill: see you tomorrow. jenna: thanks, guys. hi, everybody, so glad you're with us today. i'm jenna lee. jon: i'm jon scott. "happening now" fallout around the world after the dramatic raid that killed usama bin laden. now the debate inside the white house whether to release tkpwreuf i can photos of the dead al-qaida leader. as we get a look at the bloody room inside the compound they are sifting through documents, hard drives seized from his luxury hideout. jenna: the president and his national security team monitoring the 40 minute raid at it played out in real time in the white house situation room. we get a look at that from this photo. jon: while there were pictures showing with the al-qaida leader with the precision kill shot

above his left eye there is growing debate about releasing the gruesome praofr of death photos. word a short time ago that they could release photos of usama bin laden's burial at sea. >> reporter: a reuters report was released a half hour ago which quotes a government official speaking on the condition of anonymity that case the white house is considering releasing the photos of usama bin laden's burial at sea later today. now the white house is denying that through official channels. no final decision has been made as far as we know. that is the bottom line. we can add that here at the pentagon there were a couple of media availabilities that had been scheduled for early this morning. they have both been canceled. typically when that happens it means the white house is calling the shots. if the photos are going to be released it will probably be coming from the white house and

not from the pentagon. there has been no mention, however, of the release of the photos of usama bin laden's face, these are allegedly much more gruesome than the burial at sea would be in which he would be shrouded in white face and body would not be physically available to us john. jon: take us inside the debate. what are the advantages and disadvantages to releasing the pictures? >> reporter: the clear obvious advantage, it would help to quell a lot of speculation that bin laden is not dead. moments ago we got this from reuters again, theafter began taliban said on tuesday they have not seen sufficient evidence to convince them that the al-qaida leader usama bin laden is dead. there is still speculation that he is very much alive. the other concern, though, is if you release these photographs it would just feed the fuel of bin laden becoming a martyr. also if you release the photos

they would be subject to all kinds of photo shopping and manipulation leading to all kinds of conspiracy theories that may exist whether or not you release the photos. that is certainly consideration that the white house is pondering at this point, jon. by the way one more thing, we spoke to peter king at fox news just about half an hour ago who says he's talked to somebody who has seen his death photos of usama bin laden's face. here is his reaction to them. >> i've spoken to people who have seen the photos. they say while you do see the bullet wound in the face, there is a swelling much the face it was not a horribly tkpwr-rbgs ross photo. >> reporter: you have not seen it. >> i have not seen it. i've spoken to folks, they say it's not that bad. i believe the photo will be released. >> reporter: in the age of photo shop, jon any release of photos or any decision you make is going to be countered by

conspiracy thaoe theori, sts ex. jenna: ksm is reporting one source for the information that eventually led to the killing of usama bin laden. john brennan the white house counterterrorism adviser was quick to point out that no one technique, including waterboarding led to the tip. >> it was information that i said was acquired from individuals, including those in detention. sometimes they gave up information willingly, as far as offering some details, some of it was dis information. sometimes they provided information that they didn't realize had embedded clues in it that we were able to exploit. jenna: j.d. gordon former

defense department spokesman joins us. you started working for the administration after the so-called enhanced interrogation techniques were used. during the time that some say that's when the information came out that led to what we're seeing today, what do you think happened that gave up that information? why do you think the happened several years after the enhanced interrogation techniques? >> reporter: well first to clarify jenna waterboarding happened to just three detainees. none of those were at guantanamo, they were at cia sites overseas. they were able to provide a composite picture to intelligence authorities. that gave up the courier, once they gave up the courier they got to bin laden. they were really more like conversations, they would sit down with happy meals and talk to the detainees and had a rapport-building approach. it's not a surprise that years

later they were able to get key information. jenna: they would sit down with what? >> reporter: mcdonald's, subway sandwiches, things of that nature, they got to bond. jenna: do you think that actually -- a sit down conversation like that might have been the type of conversation that led to this information being leaked? >> reporter: well, over time the detainees got to bond with their interrogators in many cases. in khalid sheikh mohammad case he was water bordered in 2003. waterboarding wasn't about trying to get the information from him at that time. it was trying to break his resistance. that's what a lot of people miss in the whole water deboarding debate is it was trying to make a detainee think that he should cooperate rather than continue with this thraoeplt. even though waterboarding didn't directly result in the information from ksm it did help to break his spirit in 2003, that with us a critical piece to this. jenna: that's where some of the debate emerges. some say listen you didn't need those enhanced interrogation techniques at all.

if you would sat down with a couple of burgers and french fries you might have got even the information out of the detainees. others say without the interrogation techniques in those secret prisons years earlier there would be no fear there and therefore the information never would would have come out, who is right. >> reporter: i think you had to put fear in the detainees and they had to know they had to cooperate and give up the tpaor. over time when you break their spirit that is the key there. there is a very good book on this taop topic "courting disa, he was a speech writer for secretary rumsfeld. he lace it out on how much waterboarding was able to save lives and disrupt terror plots. there was a plot against the library tower in los angeles. against thaoet row airport that were broken up due to enhanced interrogation techniques. jenna: those techniques aren't being used right now, they

haven't been used for years. what is next and what does that mean about the information we might be missing. one of the greatest ironies is when the obama administration came into office they were very concerned about human rights. ironically we don't capture the high value detainees any more, we kill them. the predator skraoeubgs are up in afghanistan and pakistan. rather than taking in high value detainees and interrogate them, the obama administration has used drone strikes to kill hem. it's good to kill them but now we are missing a lot of intelligence we might have. jenna: what are your thoughts on releasing the picture of usama bin laden, the shot, or his burial. >> reporter: i think releasing the photo of the burial is probably a good win. it's a no win either way. they can be photo shopped or used for propaganda. going back to iraq we released the pictures of saddam hussein's son.

there are so many conspiracy theories with 9/11 you almost have to release some type of photo. jenna: we will wait to see if we will get some sort of photo confirming the death of usama bin laden. we want to hear from you on this. should the white house release the photo. 7,000 people have voted already. more than 80% say they should. obviously fewer than that said they should hold onto them. it will be interesting to see how this side of the story place out, jon. jon: another hot spot libya government forces are firing on and shelling rebels along a route they use to ferry splice from across the two admonition border. nato is vowing to keep up the pressure on moammar qaddafi regime on the skies. david lee miller streaming live from tripoli. >> reporter: in the last few hours we've seen more nato air strikes in the city of misrata, those air strikes targeting forces loyal to moammar qaddafi.

moammar qaddafi's forces have been shelling the city with moat tars and rockets preventing a humanitarian ship from docking there. this ship has on board food, water, medicine and other splice. once it docks it's supposed to take some one thousand migrant workers out of misrata along with libyans who are injured and 32 journalists who would like to leave the city. as of now the ship has not been able to dock. on the streets of tripoli there is a great deal of rage and anger because ever the air strike that killed the 29-year-old son of moammar qaddafi. yesterday we went to the funeral for saif al-islam qaddhfi and we saw the anger and frustration on the streets for ourselves. rage and anger over the death spilling over into the streets. the funeral has been going on for well over an hour. there is a massive amount of security on the ground.

it seems like there are hundreds and hundreds of people with ak-47's, semi-automatic weapons, some of them in uniform, some of them not in uniform. you can also see the streets are lined with thousands and thousands of libyans who have come out today to pay their respects to the qaddhafi family and once again to also vent their anger. >> reporter: two of qaddhafi's sons attended the funeral. moammar qaddafi was con speubg ooh lust lee absent . we have not seen or heard from the leader since the air strikes took place. they say even though he was in the home that was struck by nato he is, and i'm quoting now in good health. jenna: pakistan's president speaking out about the death of usama bin laden for the very first time. the world apartments most wanted

terrorist found yards from a major pakistani university. we'll tell you what he has to say about that now. jon: new problems for sony. turns out hackers might have accessed personal information from millions more users than the company original lee origin. what is that all about. jenna: and explosions, take a listen. well believe it or not, that is meant to ease flooding. is it working? mike tobin is live with this story. >> reporter: well, jenna one thing the people here are glad to see is the sun trying to come out. all eyes are on the sky right now and of course these rising floodwaters as the people in the middle of the country are trying to stay dry. that is coming up. [ manager ] you know...

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jon: new zealand's largest city hit by a deadly tornado. it hit a shopping mall. it hit the malls roof shattering windows and destroying cars outside. there are reports that one vehicle flew a hundred feet in the air. another with children inside flipped over. new zealand is still struggling to rebuilt after february's earthquake hit the country's second largest city of christ church. jenna: the army corps of engineers trying to save the time of cairo, illinois from overwhelming floods. more blasts are planned for today. while waters may drop it could mean a surge for other areas along the mississippi. mike tobin is monitoring the

situation nearby. did the explosions actually work, mike? >> reporter: what we've seen so far in key areas like cairo, illinois, the waters have gone down a foot since the army corps of engineers made the dramatic move of destroying the levee last night. and they anticipate the floodwaters should drop about three and a half feet, which should be enough to keep the floodwaters from breaching the levees in some of those threatened areas. the downside, of course, is that by doing that they flooded about 130,000 acres of farm land and flooded about 90 different homes. even here in led better, kentucky they say they have seen the floo floodwaters ease a lite about it. one of the things you can see from looking around here so many homes have tried to battle the

floodwaters, they were too powerful, they ultimately lost the battle and moved their belongings up to higher ground. the food waters are amazing, they have passed the record set in 1937, jenna. jenna: just looking at the water and also just thinking of the power when the water was released after those explosions, how were they certain that there weren't people in the way when those floodwaters released? >> reporter: right, they had plenty of public notice and there were court battles going on. it wasn't any secret that that could happen. they put plenty of public warning out before they blew the levee. prior to that they put up helicopters with infrared sensors and flew over that area. if there was anybody out there giving off body heat they should have shown up on the seven sores. jenna: mike to be inch continuing to monitor the situation. thank you. jon: the sony corporation says involves 25 million more users than it originally announced.

they admitted that hackers accessed personal data from some 77 million subscribers. the newly discovered breach involves databasess in 2007. it khreus credit card numbers, debit card numbers and expiration dates. but sony says there is no information to indicate that the hackers used the information. jenna: as of yet. one leading lawmaker says considerable intelligence was seized at usama bin laden's compound, that includes hard drives and documents that could tell us about plots and par gets and where al-qaida's other top leaders are hiding out. we'll have more on that. with usama bin laden's death leaving an opening on the f.b.i.'s most wanted terror list the al-qaida tere list wh terroe al-qaida terrorist who may

replace aim as terrorist number one.

jon: right now authorities searching through usama bin laden's computer files. before they depart erred the hideout in pakistan the navy seals swept up hard drives, computers, cdroms and other storage media from the compound. one official tells the website politico it is a mother load of intelligence, perhaps providing clues to usama bin laden's top lieutenants, including this guy, khalid ali-m aldawsari. would you guess this was encrypted? >> there is an old saying tpa hrart breeds contempt. he'd probably been living so easily for sometime that what we're hope is he became lax.

i wouldn't put it past the abilities of our intelligence people to break the inscription. jon: i'm guessing they had people who were tasked specifically with not even getting in the firefight but just looking for the information, and trying to find something like a thumb drive in a three story compound had to be a real challenge, but they apparently got a lot of stuff. >> in the movie "top gun," what was the saying, it was a target rich environment. this adds another element when you look at the mission of special forces. we have become to rely so much on electronics and data that now part of the mission is to go out and collect the information, to collect thumb drives, cd roms, sim cards. we'll be able to find out what was on usama bin laden's ipod, there are ways to hide information within other types of information.

there are multiple things they had to go after. i'm glad we got the stuff. the problem will be sorting through all of this. it's sorting through the information and getting to the stuff of tactical value so they can put it into action right away. jon: we are told the compound didn't have an internet connection or phone line. would that in some ways enhance the kind of material he might have stored? >> yeah, you're not going to be able to store anything in the cloud or store it somewhere else. you're going to have to have data, right you'll have to have a thumb drive or something. somebody has a computers on one side or electronics. they used the programs to decrypt it or create the videos or documents or other planning elements that they needed. without an internet connection it made the role of the courier even more relevant . they had to take the thumb drive and probably used some of the techniques that drug traffickers do, hide it in cavities, take this small piece from one

location to another to get it to one location to another. jon: you mentioned the courier and his name was uncovered the old fashioned way through questioning. once they got to usama bin laden's compound the electronics, the information that he was storing clearly ought to be hugely valuable, and if they can crack it soon enough it's going to lead all kind of his u u.n. derlings to start scattering. >> if i were members of al-qaida right now i'd be looking over my shoulder waiting for the helicopters, because there is probably this information is in the clear, we hope, we hope that his personal operational security was lacks and that they can make quick use of this information to butt an end to this. jon: he was the boss and nobody is going to tell the boss how to better inch crypt or hide his

data. >> he was the tony soprano, no one was going to tell him no. jenna: how could the world's most wanted terrorist hide for years virtually in plain sight. that's what u.s. lawmakers are asking the pakistani government today. the growing skepticism and what it means for u.s. national security just ahead. now that usama bin laden is gone one washington state man is stepping up his grooming habits. the scruff fee details, a story we wanted to share with you on "happening now" just ahead.

jon: a lot of lawmakers in congress are raising pretty serious questions about pakistan's president zardari. he claims they played no role in hiding or protecting usama bin laden. yet the most wanted terrorist on the pannette was hiding in plain sight steps away from pakistan's version of what you might call west point. lawmakers want answers as billions in u.s. aid to that country is hanging in the balancement fox business network's rich edson is on capitol hill looking into all of this. how is congress, or at least in congress, how are they planning to crackdown on pakistan, rich. >> reporter: well, jon they are looking directly at this aid,

billions of dollars of aid peeking last year at about 3.5 billion in aid, human tear reand military. when they look at that and they think usama bin laden was hiding for five or six years in a compound five or six miles away from the military academy they wonder if we should be providing the aid. one lawmaker wants a bill passed where no more aid can be sent to pakistan until they prove that they didn't know usama bin laden was hiding in that country. >> they are complacent about the location of usama bin laden. it's like having john dillinger living next door to the f.b.i. building and the f.b.i. not knowing about it. how can that be. >> reporter: there are democrats and republicans at the question lease wanting to examine what the pakistanis knew before we give them any more aid.

jon: what is the administration doing about it. >> reporter: yesterday john brennan did say it was inconceivable that usama bin laden has no support within the country though he's pointing to a pakistani investigation, take a listen. >> i am not going to speculate about what type of support he might have had own an official basis inside of pakistan. we are closely talking to the pakistanis right now. >> reporter: brennan has pointed out that pakistan has been a strong partner in the fight against extremism. yesterday secretary state hillary rodham clinton said the u.s. is continuing to help pakistan in its fight against extremists. pakistan does have nuclear weapons. jon: they do indeed. thank you. jenna: you mentioned that military academy a few steps from usama bin laden's compound. stpho: a hundred yards away. jenna: look at what we found, our brain room help had us dig this up. a photograph from 14 months ago, that is general petraeus at the

academy, at that time steps away we think from the place usama bin laden was hiding. whether we take all of it together the questions that we have are really, is pakistan a friend or is pakistan an enemy? that is our question for our next guest. author and far easter reus image list. how would you handle that. >> reporter: there is more than one pakistan the one is our ally. the one that has had officers killed by the al-qaida. that's where it becomes very important for us to examine. there is a body inside the intelligence national security service which has protected not just usama bin laden staying there for few years but the fact that the taliban has been operational in pakistan for that long. so the question now is to sit down with the pakistanis not just for the general behavior of pakistan, asking them to reform,

we need to know who are those who are protecting the taliban and usama bin laden. jenna: is there any help for true reform amongst that particular group. >> what i have mentioned before these assassination -ts and killings coming from the side of the taliban are what the government would be afraid of. they would be afraid of engaging in reform and getting attacked by the taliban. it's upon this government in pakistan, the president himself who i believe may not have known about it. someone in the layers of bureaucracy certainly were protecting usama bin laden and other members of the taliban. jenna: what is the way forward. >> it goes through a military administrators bureaucratic reform on the inside on the intelligence apparatus of pakistan. to get the foreign aid you have to get through reform. jenna: you think the mone moneys enough.

>> i think the money is very information for us. there will be statements saying, we'll look at other places. pakistan has a strong element in it that does not the taliban. they would like us to put pressure on their government so that they could raise the issue. we are going to lose the foreign aid because of your protection of the taliban. jenna: should we stop everything, should we stop all the interaction and reboot the relationship? is now the time that we actually could do that? >> if we stop everything right now the instinct of the pakistani state would be to look elsewhere and they may go to the wrong places. what we need to do is to lower this support to the pakistani state and reduce is only to the places that we really are our allies, human rights groups that we know, and tell the government, you needless than those who are protect being the taliban. jenna: tough to deal with a country or person with a split personality. it seems that's what we're dealing with here as you so rightly point out. thank you so much for your

incite. >> thank you. jon: the whole nation is still talking about the death of usama bin laden, and that leaves an opening on the f.b.i.'s most wanted terrorist list. so now that the al-qaida leader has a bold, red banner saying deceased underneath his chin, we profile who is left on the list, including two americans, plus who might replace usama bin laden as america's most wanted terrorist? anita vogel is live in los angeles with that. anita. >> reporter: hi, there, john these are all questions that security officials are asking as they really study this list. right now there are 29 teur 29 terrorists on the list, including a californian with ties to an extremist animal rights group to more infamous figures like ayman al-zawahri, and adam gadan, a former california residence a homegrown terrorist who converted to islam

as a teen abler and rose through the ranks of al-qaida to become a spokesman taunting americans with his threatening videos. >> it's quite a perplexing issue there, here you have two people from california that are on the list, the fact is that we've learned that there are -- it's not just people that we have to be concerned about that are part of al-qaida that are from our area, there are also homegrown terrorists who don't have a link to al-qaida but they are worthy of our attention and concern. >> reporter: even though usama bin laden was technically considered the number one terterrorist on the list, they y there is really no order for the terrorists on the run. they are all dangerous, some with ties to catastrophic events like hijacking planes, bombing buildings and u.s. warships like the cole, and most of them have

been indicted. they will likely turn to cza khd ali-m aldawsari. jon: i would like to see him behind bars and adam gadan as well. jenna: multiple arrests were reported at a nuclear site. what are the suspects accused of and do police believe there is a connection to the death of usama bin laden. amy kellogg has a report for us ahead. the first president at debate is just days away. which gop candidates will be in? who is staying home? we're live in south carolina coming up. ♪

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jenna: fox news alert on terror arrests overseas.

days after the killing of usama bin laden british police now rounding up five men outside a nuclear power plant in northwest england. amy kellogg is covering this story live for us in london. amy. >> reporter: hi, jenna. everyone here of course as in the u.s. is on the look out for some sort of violent jihaddist retaliation for the death of usama bin laden, so of course five men being arrested under the terrorism act at a nuclear facility has aroused an awful lot of suspicion here. however, one terrorism expert has just pointed out that they were arrested yesterday afternoon, they are from london, it's a five-hour drive at least to this power plant. he says it seems unlikely that they would have woken up yesterday to the news of usama bin laden's death and hatch this plot to go up to a nuclear facility. however, anything is possible and these men have not even been interrogated yet by the police. as we speak there are police search four residents in east london in connection with all of

this. again, no information. under the terrorism act of 2000 suspects can be held for up to 14 days without arrest. they were at the selefield nuclear plant, five hours north of here. it's fully a nuclear waste reprocessing plant. they were picked up in a police who saw them in a car taking pictures of the plant and that aroused suspicion. we will bring you more information as soon as we have it, jenna. jenna: amy kellogg on a developing story. thank you. jon: taking outlawed laud wasn't just a challenge for president obama it could be a challenge to any republican who wants to replace him in the white house. our next guest says hrep contenders better have a coherent foreign policy can. joining us now bill magern. you wrote an interesting piece saying the republican candidates have been looking at the deficit and fiscal matters and thinking that was going to propel them into the white house.

>> i think they've also been looking at president obama as though he were jimmy carter. a lot of missteps in iran early on, in relations with israel, ally and so forth and in the whole middle east leading from behind. the general view of a democrat is that he's going to be weak on national security. with this move president obama kind of undermines that narrative. jon: you would that the wrap on him, at least according to his republican challengers up till now was that he was an indecisive president who worries more about the rights of our enemies than the rights of our citizens. when you go out and get usama bin laden. >> that's what they say in a debate, if he's challenged he can say i'm the guy that got usama bin laden, you guys didn't. that's the point. i think the republicans need an alternative to president obama's policy. i worry the strength president obama now has he may use to cover himself in weaker

policies. cutting the defense budget, cutting the number of he shoulders, withdrawing from afghanistan. it's very positive he uses this very strong action to make moves like this. jon: as you look at the republican field or the republican prospective field because there are clearly some candidates who are still going to announce, who do you see who has a foreign policy that you think works? >> i think very few do. you have john mccain who was out in libya recently. he's not running. sarah palin talks about it. she has a son in the army. not clear showsee going to run. pawlenty has spoken about it a little bit, the minnesota governor, he's the only one who has really spoken. rick santorum as not announced but he's spoken about it. we don't really have a rudy guiliani, one that has a policy and is respectful and even gauges the president from the right. i think they are going to need it. it's not enough to win the election but it's part of it.

jon: your former boss, you worked in the bush administration. >> yes. jon: that he said we should have a humble foreign policy, was that his phrase. >> yes. jon: suggesting that republicans often like to focus on domestic issues and not worry so much about the outside world. >> i think he would be the first to change that 9/11 changed his view of the world and our philosophy that fight over there so you don't have to fight over here. republicans have been hedging their bets. they will here say i have doubts here and doubts there. very few have put through a raeug policy or a bush policy. jon: nobody is suggesting that the raid was conducted to enhance the president's re-election chances. but you are saying it has certainly accomplished it. >> it gives him something real to talk about. it was a gutsy decision. i had people e-mailing me saying

any president would do so. it would be true if you new in advance the outcome would be successful. all kind of risks. jon: could have been another iran hostage failure or mowing >> it was a gutsy call with a lot of things that could have gone wrong. jon: okay, thank you. jenna: breaking news in a neighborhood around pasadena, los angeles local reports are a stolen car we're continuing to watch. you can see the helicopter shot is going to break up. unfortunately we don't have control over that. we are watching this very carefully weave throughout the residential neighborhood. we believe that the white car on your screen is what you're watching as you see the shadow, the helicopter overhead. here is the back story, we know very limited at this time. the los angeles police department is trying to lay down some spike strips but they say it's very hard to lay down these strips because they quite frankly don't know where this car is headed.

they think this is a stolen car. this zone, this neighborhood is a 25-mile per hour zone and this car apparently has slipped several cars along the way. so as it weaves throughout this neighborhood, again the chopper shot breaking up a little bit for us, we are going to continue to watch it especially because of the erratic driving of the person in this car. we'll continue to watch this situation in los angeles, if that shot comes back we'll bring it to you. we certainly don't want to take that away from you. in the meantime again just some real little details at this point, it started in boyle heights, if you're familiar with this area, it's heading toward san marino, a 25 miles per hour zone, a residential district right there, jon. we don't see in our line of sight there who is following the car. we do understand that the l.a.p.d. is following this car and trying to lay down some of the spike strips. jon: you can see why it's so difficult to figure out exactly where to put those down. the spike strips, so you know,

are a -- i don't know they look like the threshold to a carpeted room, they put those in the street, they've got a device attached to them that allows them, the police officers, to just before the car gets there, it allows them to stick out these spikes, nails, effectively that will be out long enough to flatten the tires of this suspect or any suspect's car as it drives over, and then they retract so that the next car coming down the road doesn't have the same thing happen to it. but you've got to have a pretty good idea of where the car is going. as you can see this guy seems to be taking random right turns, here, there and everywhere. so that's what the problem is for authorities going through these residential neighborhoods and so forth. we are going to take a quick break. we'll keep an eye on this situation. be back with this coverage of a police chase in los angeles straight ahead, "happening now."

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jon: fox news alert six minutes until 9:00 in the morning in los angeles and a car chase is underway. we thank our friends at kabc for bringing us these pictures of this white car that's been pursued for quite some time now by authorities through some residential neighborhoods. frankly not sure where it is now. it started headed towards san marino from boyle heights, but where they are now exactly we do not know. again it's almost 9:00 in the morning, so school is very much in session. we saw the guy during the commercial break blow through a school zone, blow through a stop sign and is obviously leading police and the police helicopters on a pretty vivid high-speed chase.

it is high-speed at sometimes. other times he appears to be doing 25 miles an hour. we actually saw a couple of people on a residential street pull over and let the guy pass. who knows if he was blowing his horn or what. it's thought to be a stolen vehicle. we don't know any more than that and we don't obviously know who is behind the wheel. he is said to have clipped a few cars, and when police finally do catch up with this guy, and there are a couple of squad cars well behind him, when they do catch up with him he's going to face a raft of charges. jenna: now a new report into our fox news urgent that there could be some indication that the guy is lost and that's why we're not seeing the high speeds that we normally see in a residential area, quite frankly, he doesn't know where he's going. i say he, most times it is a guy, no offense, jon. we don't know who is inside the car and we don't know if there is more than one person in the car. jon: i have been surprised once in a while to find a woman behind the wheel in one of these

things. typically these car thieves steal cars in neighborhoods that they know, but if they get chased by the police they get chased into areas far from their comfort zone where they don't know the streets or the lay of the land and that may be what is happening here. this guy or woman is just driving around blind trying to find a way out of this predicament that he has got even himself into. jenna: that's been a problem for authorities. we also hear according to the local law enforcement there that they were trying to lay down some spike strips. as you noted, jon, earlier you can't lay down the spike strips if you tonight know where the person is going. we don't see the patrol cars following behind. from a larger point of view we did see some trailing. you can't make it what its not. high-speed it's not right now. jon: i did see the guy use his left blinker right now, good for him. always thinking safety. we'll keep an eye on this and continue with our coverage in just a bit. than ny other allergy medications.

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>> a fox news alert and the car chase we've been telling you about in the los angeles area is now in the vicinity of south pasadena. apparently this guy has already visited this general area, once today, maybe that's where home is and maybe he has returned to the errors of his youth, at any rate, the chase is still underway. it is believed to be a stolen car, and now it seems to be coming to an end. there could be all kinds of fire works when the door opens. let's see what happens and let's listen in to the kttv chopper. >> the officers obviously with their guns drawn now are going to direct him, come out, put your hands outside the window, we want to see you, and they will hold their guns, they're going to hold him at gunpoint until he does that. they are telling that suspect right now, i guarantee, to do just that. it does not appear the door is open. i don't see any hand action outside that driver's window. you can see the police officers below there, and

there's a couple more behind that squad car, and we have the two helicopters up as well. now time is on the officer's side, hopefully he'll give up, they'll take him into custody, if not, they have him surrounded and they'll do an attempt to make the situation end peacefully. jon: kind of interesting. it looks like this thing essentially -- >> [interruption] >> jon: it looks like this thing essentially ended in the driveway of a home. i'm guessing that's a home with the red brick roof there in the bottom of your screen. doesn't appear this guy has anywhere to go, and that's what police are dealing with. no movement, no attempts to get out of the car. you see -- okay, you see some movement through the

windshield there. obviously police are on their loud speakers telling this guy or there may be more than one person in the car -- that looked like somebody on the passenger side -- they're probably on their loud speakers telling them to open up the doors, get out on the driveway and lie down, but as you heard there from the reporter or chopper pilot, no sign of any compliance yet so far from the person who was driving that white car in the center of your screen, which has ended up in somebody's driveway, presumably not their own, after a multi--mile, multi-agency car chase, where apparently he apparently hit a lot of other vehicles. jenna: you see the officer lined up by that vehicle. it's in this driveway like any of our driveways. you week up and -- you wake up and have this person in your driveway. according to what we were listening to at the break, this guy may have made a wrong turn, seems like he was lost in an unfamiliar area and turned in

happenstance, jon, to a dead-end. jon: that's a good way to end it if you're going to have to end one of these things, you know, keep them out of traffic, get them in a box canyon, in effect, and that may be what has happened here, but why this person or these people in that car aren't getting out, aren't complying with police, we don't know. but you can see, it's a very dangerous time for the officers, they don't know if this driver has weapons or not. okay. there went glass. they fired maybe one of those bean bags at the car to break the glass. you saw the officer with the gun raised. they have these specialty slugs, in effect, they can fire from a shotgun. it amounts to a bean bag. it's very heavy and not fun to get hit with one but it is nonlethal, if it were to hit somebody say in the head and it appears they used that to break the glass on the driver's side of that white car. they're trying to get this

guy or these people out of that car and obviously, so far, no movement. jenna: no movement at this time and now you see the officers coming around the other side of the car. you so rightly point out, jon, in so many of these car chases, when you see the end, it seems rather quick, that the officers say put your hands up and the person comes out of the car, back to the officers. why we're not seeing any movement at this time is still a question. we are getting some notes that the front driver's side window is broken, the notes we have at this time is it's from the inside out. that apparently the suspect appears to be in the back seat now, or that there's someone crawling around in the car. we still don't know who's in the car, if there's more than one person. again, jon, you mentioned -- mentioned maybe these warnings shots. it's tough to know exactly what these officers are confronting at this time. jon: their adrenaline has to be pumping. you know, you never know how some of these crooks were would-be crooks want to end one of these, sometimes they want to go out in a blaze of glory and take as many

officers with them, so obviously a tense time for the officers on the ground. our trace gallagher is joining us now, he knows the streets of southern california well and perhaps can illuminate us as to where this is all taking place and maybe some of the background. >> reporter: it's actually in san moreno, the pasadena area. everybody knows the rose bowl, pasadena, you can see the cops getting closer. you have a couple of windows on the driver's side bashed out. we don't know exactly how they were knocked out, if he kicked them out or maybe if he has a weapon of some sort to kick them out. but you talk about why someone would sit in the car, knowingly surrounded by cops, we see this because california is a 3-strike state, which means if you commit a violent crime and stealing a car is a violent crime, if you're a third striker, you're going away for a very, very long time, so a lot of people will take this time to get on the cell phone, to call people, to tell them what's going on, to tell them they messed up, then kind of take their time

to sit there and wait until the cops surround it. you see they're busting the windows open right now. clearly this guy is not coming out on his own but they don't fear he has a weapon pointed at them or they wouldn't be as close as surround the car as they are doing. so they're knocking out the windows and the fear always is in these situations of the driver doing harm to himself. so we always -- we want to caution people that there's always that chance, that whoever was in the car, one, two people, might harm themselves at some point in time, jon. jon: well, and whoever's car that was has a much larger insurance claim now with the windows broken out. they've got the driver out of the car, hard to see anything about who it is or any of that. they are surrounded with a sea of blue right now. the good news is it appears to have ended peacefully. we're going to get some more information about this

driver, what the suspected crime is. we know that it is thought to be a stolen car and we know he hit a number of other cars, according to police, as this chase was underway. but why it went on for as long as it did, we don't know. we'll try and get more information for you, and bring it to you live on "happening now", as soon as we get it in. jenna: broken glass there and an arrest, starting the new hour here, we have new details on the efforts to find and kill osama bin laden, what we knew, when we knew it, how we finally found him, lots of details ahead, and some breaking news as well. we're so glad you're with us everybody, i'm jenna lee. jon: i'm jon scott. brand new information into our newsroom this hour, that daring raid on sunday by navy seals was really years in the making, some key intelligence, giving us the break we needed to pick up bin laden's trail after all this time. national correspondent catherine herridge, live for us in washington. this intel, what's the latest we're hearing about it catherine? >> reporter: well, thank you jon. as we were first to report, this central piece of

intelligence or the foundational piece of evidence, that initial thread came in 2003 from the cia's interrogation program, this was the controversial program with the black sites overseas. several administration officials, as well as top democrats on the intelligence committee are insisting that water boarding was not involved. >> what i said was to the best of our knowledge, based on a look, none of it came as a result of harsh interrogation practices. >> reporter: they have the attention of u.s. officials -- the other thing that has the attention of u.s. officials is what is emerging as a pattern of pickup of operatives inside of pakistan, what i'm talking about specifically is khalid sheikh mohammed, the self-descrifd, also rahm knee ben al shid and umar patek who recently was picked up in the same area as osama bin laden, and when you put all of these cases together, what you see is that virtually all the big

pickupso pickups in pakistan have taken place in urban centers or near major urban centers and that disspells the belief they've been holed up in the tribal areas of pakistan and raises questions about the type and quality of intelligence we've been receiving from the pakistanis jon. jon: we were talking earlier -- speculating really about what was on the hard drives, the computer information and so forth that they pulled out of the compound. what do we know about what was there and how long bin laden and his family had been living there? >> we don't have a lot of information on the type of information that's being pulled from what's called document exportation, which is when you go through the documents and papers that were in the house or what's being picked up through technical exploitation, which would be computer hard drives. what i would emphasize, the seals spent 45 minutes in that house so they were somewhat limited by the time and understanding the psychology of bin laden, he was really a security freak, so to suggest that he would have compiled in a single

place huge amounts of data might be a stretch. but certainly what i'm being told is the information in the house really shows the potential for some important new leads. in addition, u.s. officials have told me that they believe the house was custom-built for bin laden, it was built with his own money, and that he may have lived there as long as six years, because that house was completed in the 2005- 2006 time frame and to kind of draw sort of a circle and bring it to a close, when you look at who was living there with him, this family unit, what that also tells you is he felt extremely confident and he felt extremely safe in that environment. jon: let's hope he was confident enough to leave a lot of information around. >> we can only hope, yeah. jon: catherine herridge, thanks. jenna: a custom-built house in pakistan leads us to believe what did pakistan, the country, know. zeroo serious questions as to how pakistani authorities did not know the al-qaeda leader was hiding just a short distance from one of their major military academies. reportedly as catherine just

told us, bin laden could have been there for as long as six years. greg palkot is streaming live from islamabad. greg, how is pakistan's government reacting today? >> reporter: well, jenna, either they didn't know, they're in denial, or it is worse, but just under 40 miles from where i am standing right now, in the heart of islamabad, the pakistani capitol, was a home base, apparently, for several years of osama bin laden, the scene of sunday's capture and kill operation by u.s. forces. today, pakistani president zardari was in defense mode in his first published comments since the mission. he said, and i quote, he was not anywhere near we expected him to be, however, that home, a compound of bin laden, was near a military academy, as you noted, also an army base, and intelligence headquarters and zardari went on to say that while they are cooperating, the mission was not a joint operation.

once again, trying to put a little bit of distance between pakistan and the u.s. and the counter terror effort. jenna: still so many questions that remain unanswered today. greg palkot streaming live for us from islamabad. thanks. jon: we got bin laden, but there are still major al-qaeda terrorists on the loose, plenty of them, including his second in command. we'll take a look at what might be next for al-qaeda. plus, all kinds of talk about osama bin laden's compound. how he managed to hide in plain sight. and what his presence there means to relations between the u.s. and pakistan.

jenna: the death of osama bin laden, a major blow for al-qaeda. what's next for the shadowy terrorist network? his deputy, ayman al-zawahiri is the contender to take the reigns. others could be as well,

such as ann wa al-awlaki, born in america -- the cleric born in america. congressman, public enemy number one gone, who's next, who's on the top of your list? >> well, zawahiri and al-awlaki are the two at the top of the list. the more important thing is how do we continue to undermine the broader ideology of al-qaeda. what's happened since 9/11, they kind of franchised, they have a lot of sort of independent actors taking up the mantle of their message and acting out in different ways, like abdul hasan, or hasan down in texas, abdulmutallab, sorry, the detroit bomber, these were largely independent folks who just followed the ideology. so we need to work to continue to undermine the ideology of al-qaeda. obviously, killing bin laden is a big step in that direction, but that i think needs to be the focus. jenna: some would say, undermining the ideology, showing you're tough is part of that.

given that is the case, in some minds, would you like to see the photograph of osama bin laden killed released? >> i just want to confirm that he has been killed. jenna: do you have doubts? >> oh no, no, no, i don't. that's why i'm saying i don't think the photograph is necessary. sorry. i don't have any doubts whatsoever. i don't think the photograph is necessary. i think it's absolutely confirmed he's killed and that is the important fact. there is no question about it. we've taken out bin laden. and i say it's a huge positive step for us. jenna: when you talk about undermining the ideology further, what specifically can we do? >> well, i think number one, we do have to take out their top leadership as we've been doing in pakistan and afghanistan and elsewhere. we have set up a program through the special operations command, through the joint special operations command in particular that has identified and targeted high value targets and has put constant pressure on al-qaeda's senior leadership. i think that's critical. i think the second thing to do is what the president has done, what president bush has done as well, is to do outreach to the muslim world

to, do engagement, to let them know that we can peacefully coexist in this world and that bin laden is dead wrong in saying the opposite, that we have more in common than separates us and find ways to work together. i think both president bush and president obama have pursued that. i think we need to continue to do so. jenna: osama bin laden as the leader of al-qaeda has raised questions about what's next in afghanistan, and it's a little bit of a mixed question, isn't it, congressman, because some believe that al-qaeda and the taliban are one and the same. but we know that they're not. they're not the same. so -- >> correct. jenna: how do you think his death, the killing of osama bin laden, affects one, our strategy in afghanistan, and affects the taliban? >> between the al-qaeda and taliban, both pakistani taliban and afghan taliban, there are many different mixtures, and they are certainly although i'd -- allied, but understanding the difference is important. going forward i think president obama's plan is correct. back when he was running for president, he said that the focus needs to be on

afghanistan and pakistan. that is the central front in the war against al-qaeda, that's where we need to put our resources, and that's what we need to focus on. killing bin laden is a crucial step in that. and i think going forward, the president's plan to build up the afghan government, build up their security forces and their governing capacity so they can stand without us and begin to draw down is the right plan. killing bin laden helps to move that plan forward, helps speed up, i think, the process by which we can begin to draw down in afghanistan, show that we have succeeded in that region, and turn responsibilities over to the afghan government so we can bring our troops home. i think it keeps us on that path. jenna: it will be interesting to see how the momentum carries forward as you so rightly point out, congressman smith, thank you for being our guest again today. >> thank you, i appreciate it. jon: it was a spectacular and extraordinary raid that took out saw osama bin laden. it could go down as one of the greatest clandestine military missions in u.s. history. a team of navy seals, swooping in by helicopter to the terrorist compound in

pakistan. they swarmed the site, and escaped with bin laden's body and what's being called the mother lode of intelligence. what about long term implications, though? james rosen takes a look at that live from washington. james. >> reporter: jon, good afternoon. for its complexity and success, the bin laden mission as you rightly note will be studied for decades and raises the question of whether america's spy apparatus so widely disparaged has its mojo back and whether america's adversaries will accordingly feel less emboldened. older generations will recall israel's similar success in tracking down nazi officer adolph ikeman in 196o. fully 15 years after the end of world war ii, mast add agents kidnapped ikeman, drugged him and spirited him aboard a commercial flight, no less, to jerusalem, where he stood trial for his role in the hol caust and was ultimately hanged. morale at america's 16 spy agencies has risen and fallen over the years, from successes in iran and latin america to failures at the

bay of pigs and in iraq. with bin laden now gone, former intelligence officers alternated between expressions of triumphth and warnings about repeating our errors of the past. >> we're the only country that can carry this off. this is a coordinated move with so many moving parts and all it took is a few of those to go wrong and lo and behold we'd be talking about a different mission. >> these types of capabilities you cannot invent over night. if you eviscerate the cia and special operations -- operations which was done in the early days of the clinton administration, they were underfunded, underresourced and it takes decades to build that kind of capability back. >> reporter: venezuela's vice president scoffed that crime and murder have become something natural for the empire, meaning the u.s., jon. jon: it was an extraordinary raid. james, thank you. >> reporter: thank you. jon: we'll have the results of our online poll, as well, straight ahead.

jon: osama bin laden launched many attacks on america, but it was the 9/11 attacks in 2001 that launched the war in afghanistan. it began nearly a decade ago so now, we're getting new reaction to his demise from people in afghanistan. conor powell, streaming live for us from kabul. conor. >> reporter: jon, not surprisingly, afghan officials are extremely happy with the fact that osama bin laden was killed, not just because he was killed, but also because they say in their mind, this proves that pakistan has been helping the taliban, helping al-qaeda, for years, and that by discovering the location of where osama bin laden was hiding out, this proves to afghan minds that pakistan is a source of much of the problems here in afghanistan, not surprisingly, security has been tightened here in the capitol in kabul all day, there's a lot of police and a lot of afghan troops on

the grounds, searching vehicles, checking to see if there is a retaliation threat here in the city of kabul or in another large city like kandahar, because there is such a feeling that with weak security here in afghanistan, because of the war, this would be an obvious place for al-qaeda or the taliban to strike very, very quickly. now, talking to one u.s. official here in kabul, they said the business of war continues here. they are extremely happy that osama bin laden has been killed. but this is a war zone that continues to be a very difficult fight, and the u.s. and its afghan partners will continue to pursue both al-qaeda here in afghanistan, but also, to hunt down the taliban and to continue the counterinsurgency strategy here in afghanistan, which focuses on building up the afghan government so that al-qaeda and the taliban can never return here, jon. jon: conor powell streaming live to us from afghanistan, thank you conor. jenna: osama bin laden posed hardly the only challenge facing the united states, the recent uprising throwing the region into turmoil,

many hoping it will spur a tidal wave of peaceful democracies, others fearing this could do more harm than good. is bin laden's death a game changer in the muslim world? michael hanlon will help us answer that question, he's from the brookings institution. michael, a game changer? >> i think that would be too optimistic. i think the game changer if there is one is what's been happening in the eh of -- way of arab demonstration and quiet revolution and ongoinging processes in the cue key countries that remain so turbulent. some arabs had been saying bin laden's time had already sort of come and gone, he wasn't a big part of this wave of change in the last few months in the region and he was already seen as essentially being fighting somebody else's war or his own war in a different part of the world. that may be too optimistic in terms of how things had become, but i don't think bin laden or al-qaeda have really been central to the most important events of the middle east this year. jenna: some have suggested

that the president, and in criticism of him in the middle east, has been too worried about perception, how we're perceived in the muslim world. but the president, of course, the one that ordered the killing of osama bin laden. how do you bring those two things together? do you think right now we are too worried our our perception in the muslim world or do we need to become more involved in this arab strength? >> i think you have to take it case by case. i think the president has gotten about 90 percent of it right, in my opinion. i think, for example, with bin laden, when you have that acute of a threat to america's national security and through the hard work of the intelligence, the military personnel who tracked him down, you've got a chance to go after him, you should do so in a robust way. so i think the president made the right call, i think we could generally agree that the intelligence and security personnel made theo deserve the credit but he made the right call. it was important that egyptians and tunisians feel it was their revolution and the united states, if they

had gotten too far in front of that, they would feel weakened because of their association with the united states. i think where the president may not have it yet right is in libya. i do think we're going to have to be more robust in helping the rebels with defensive weapons, with training, with an ability to hold their own territory, and not depend exclusively on the europeans to get that mission right, which i'm afraid is a little too much the obama administration preference at the moment. so that's where i would perhaps be more critical in a very specific case. jenna: we're switching from talking about one terrorist, right, to talking about a state sponsor of terror. potentially when we talk about that, you mentioned libya. i'd also like to talk to you about egypt, because there's some movements in egypt that are happening a bit under the radar, egypt potentially giving access to hamas, the terrorist organization, working on the relationship with iran, as well, and of course, there are reports that the second in command to osama bin laden is in egypt at this time. how would you advise the president in dealing with egypt as it's trying to form its new government?

>> yeah, it's a tough one. i think that we're going to have to give them a little bit of space to feel out their own role and they're going to be a little bit less prowestern than mubarek. that's a fact of life. i think you distinguish between things that have a symbolic effect and have more differentiation. if want too if they want to talk to iran, so what, there are a lot of european countries talking to iran as well, as long as they're not giving iran as easy way to break sanctions or access to nuclear technology or harbor for their terrorists, what have you, i can deal with egypt and region have a detant, on the other hand, if they invite hamas setting up headquarters and hamas remains committed to violence in the gaza strip and perhaps elsewhere, that's more concerning because that's has an operational real world impact. i would suggest they think in those sorts of materials and tolerate certain actions which are more symbolic, be more inclined to use our leverage to stop things that

have real meaning on the ground. jenna: and what is that next tipping point, what are we watching for next, michael. thank you very much, great to have you. >> my pleasure. jon: coming up, we're going to turn our eye on some of the domestic problems, picking up the pieces after the flood and the tornado recovery. so many people, with such big jobs ahead. a new channel for fox news on satellite radio. we know that many of you are listening to us right now, not necessarily watching. starting tomorrow, the fourth of may, fox news channel can be heard on channel 114 on both satellite services, sirius and xm. first time the channel numbers are the same for both channels. both carrier, i should say. fox news talk will now be on channel 126.

jenna: a fox news weather alert, we're continuing to watch the flood waters across the midwest today. shea ryan is live in the fox weather center. >> reporter: along the monitoring stations, mainly along the his and mississippi river, this is where we're seeing a lot of historic and some record flooding, all of them shaded in purple at these stations, they are reporting major flooding. now, in the red, they're showing moderate flooding, but again, this is just how it's classified. what happens on the ground and how many are impacted can often be quite significant. and -- or more significant than even where it's classified. so along the mississippi valley, along those rivers, we are seeing that historic

and record flooding. unfortunately, there is more rain in store this week. you can see some showers moving out of that area now, and also, some very heavy pockets of rain moving into place necessary new york state, where we're also seeing some very significant flooding. this is all more rain. we're expecting 1-3 inches of rain in some portions of the northeast, as the system moves through. and like i said, drying out in some portions of the ohio and mississippi rivers for now, but there will be more rain as we continue through the week. the good news out of this system, we have talked a lot about severe weather, but today, there is just a slight risk in this area here in yellow for some large hail or damaging winds as that storm system continues to develop. there is only a slight risk of an isolated tornado. again, we'll continue to monitor it but it is looking much better than what we've seen recently in regard to severe weather. jenna: we'll take any improvement. thank you, shea ryan. jon: you really can't make this stuff up. it turns out that general david petraeus, top american

commander in afghanistan, and pakistan, was also within walking distance of bin laden's compound in pakistan. this is a photo of the general when he was head of centcom, visiting the kakul military academy. now, about a year after that photo was taken he talked to bret baier about his efforts to find bin laden. he said there's been no hard intelligence. you know, people occasionally ask where is osama bin laden and i think for all we know, he could be in las vegas, next to elvis, given the precision of what we have. there is certainly strong suspicion about where he is, there is clear knowledge about where some of his immediate, immediate subordinates are in the rugged tribals areas. now we know bin laden wasn't with them in those tribal areas, he was in the suburbs of islamabad, right near that military academy where the general had made an appearance. goi just released brand new photos, this one shows exactly how close the compound was to that

military academy. and here's a view we haven't seen before. that's the wreckage of the u.s. chopper, just outside the compound, after it took part in the raid on sunday. it had a hard landing because of some lift problems that developed, owing to the height of the walls around that compound. the bottom line, we finally got bin laden, with or without any help from pakistan. jenna: he wasn't with elvis. after all. jon: no. jenna: suspicion -- well, no longer there. the first presidential debate of the 2012 campaign season, taking place in south carolina this week. republicanning will have a chance to state their positions. with the field wide open still, some potential candidates will not be there. chief political correspondent carl cameron is live in greeneville, south carolina. so carl, what can we expect? >> reporter: well, the deadline for the candidates to actually make their decision and meet the criteria for participation is at 5:00 this afternoon at

the end of business. there's still an open question about who will make an attempt to actually qualify or not. there will be at least five candidates we expect to show up and yesterday, i had an opportunity to speak to the governor of south carolina, nicky haley, who made it very clear that there is a substantial political risk for any candidate who contemplates skipping the first presidential debate in the state with the first presidential primary in the south. the pal metro state has a long history. republicans who win here have historically gone on to win the nomination and no one has won the nomination without winning here first. this is nicky haley talking about the risks of a no show. >> there is an arrogance that's abounding with some of these candidates, and the sait of south carolina is a perfect conduit to select someone that will go out, work hard, shake hands say this is what i'm for, not about buying elections. >> reporter: that was the republican party chairman karen sloit of south carolina, making the

observation that there are a number of sort of celebrity candidates, donald trump, mitt romney, hiek mike huckabee, sarah palin, who are not expected to come to the debate thursday evening, either because they've not yet made the decision to run or they have but have chosen not to come to the debate, argue it's too soon. the south carolina primary is only about eight months away and when you consider that president obama plans to raise a billion dollars and has already started his campaign running, and that many of the candidates, including romney, have been quietly organizing their campaigns for months, there's a tremendous amount of resentment here in south carolina. pal metro state voters are accustomed to meeting the candidates, giving an opportunity to really go over their character and policy positions, and the assertion that some don't need to be here yet or may downplay the importance of this state is a considerable political risk. jenna: carl cameron, live for us in south carolina, where the debate takes place on thursday, may fifth. you can watch live coverage of the presidential debate on fox news channel this thursday, 9:00 p.m. eastern time.

you don't want to miss that. jon: it's a big story of the weekend, and it remains the big story right now. osama bin laden, located and killed at that compound in pakistan. the fallout and continuing coverage, straight ahead, "happening now".

>> coming up on "america live" the president prepares to head to ground zero for the first time since his presidential campaign. so what kind of reception will he get there, and can he translate the bin laden news into 2012? we're going to talk about that with a political panel. brand new poll numbers coming in, too, with surprises about how the president is doing after that big mission. and the details of what happened are still starting to come out. more questions about the burial at sea are arising. pakistan's isi says it was an intel failure, the whole thing, on their part. so what did they really know? amazing new pictures

show just how close general petraeus was to where bin laden was hiding on his recent visit. all that, and we await briefings at the state department and the white house. all that, coming up at the top of the hour on "america live". >> jon: major questions being raised now about bin laden's hideout in pakistan. we have been scouring the planet to find this guy for years. turns out he was essentially hiding in plain sight. his fortified compound, built in an affluent neighborhood where many of pakistan's retired military leaders also lived. the u.s. believes he might have been there for five years, maybe six. and likely had a pretty significant support system. pakistan's president denies his government protected bin laden. let's talk about it with republican congressman mike rodgers, chairman of the intelligence committee. before we get to that, i want to ask you about the weekend, congressman rodgers. obviously as chairman of intelligence, you were briefed about this raid

going down. it must have been a very excruciating time period for you. >> well, it's always a little anguse, you know. even going in to where the decision was made to launch the operation, after five years of our case officers, our intelligence analysts, the nsa, the nga, the national geo agency, all of these folks combined, to find this place, there still wasn't 100 percent assurance it was osama bin laden there. so everyone was anxious, everyone was on pins and needles. thankfully it came out well and it was executed brilliantly by the men of our special forces who went into the compound and secured -- secured the compound and retrieved osama bin laden's body. jon: it absolutely was brilliantly handled and brilliantly run. and you succeeded, obviously, they succeeded. there was the picture at the end. now that we know that he was there, do you have

suspicions about what pakistani's -- pakistan's government knew? >> i can give you a bit of news. we recently went over new information coming out and it leads me to believe that they did not know he was there. i feel with a high degree of confidence that they didn't know, the people who were in authority, the people who should have known if he was going to be protected at that level didn't know. does it mean there may have been some defections and folks who penetrated isi along the way, no, we believe that and have believed that all along they had known but i think the government itself and the large apparatus of the isi, i just don't believe from what i saw today that they knew he was there. i do believe it was a failure on their part and clearly an embarrassing one. jon: the isi being pakistan's intelligence service. president ali zardari wrote in an op-ed piece in the "washington post", hey, we've been victims of bin laden's terrorism, my own wife, the former prime minister, benazir bhutto, was a victim of an osama bin

laden-style plot. did he make a good case in your view? >> well, the network we think was responsible for that assassination that has allegiances to al-qaeda, but i wouldn't say really al-qaeda. those were the kinds of things that finally got the pakistanis to come around and cooperate with us. listen, their national interests may not always intersect with the united states. we have this strange relationship. they help us at times and sometimes they frustrate us greatly about what they won't do and maybe in some cases, some folks who have been penetrated by sympathizers give up to the bad guys about what we're doing, which is one of the reasons i think we had to make the decision to go in unilaterally, by ourselves, and take care of this serious problem. but as i said, we still have some questions to ask, but with the information i've seen today, surely it didn't look and appear to me that they knew that he was there. jon: we talked earlier about whether there is information in that compound that the

cia is now going over that might lead to others in al-qaeda. very quickly, let's say we found out the location of ayman al-zawahiri, his number two. would you advocate letting the pakistani government know this time about his location? >> i think we have certain equities when it comes to the war on terror and listen, we've had these conversations, the executive branch from bush to the obama administration have had this conversation with pakistan, we as members of congress, i have had these discussions with musharraf, with the new folks in power under zardari, that if we find the serious players, we will take action. they know it's going to happen. i think that's why the reaction of osama bin laden was yeah, you had to do it and oh my gosh, is this embarrassing. i think you'd fine the same with zawahiri and others, that we may hopefully find with information that we've attained through the raid. jon: mike rogers is republican of michigan and chairman of the house intelligence committee, thank you for breaking news in our hour. >> thanks jon. jon: we'll be right back. 

jon some pretty interesting information there from the chaifer of the house intelligence committee, congressman mike rogers that says based on intelligence he has seen he now believes that the government of pakistan had no idea that osama bin laden was living in that country. so now that bin laden is dead, will the terror network's bank account perhaps run dry, can the organization, al-qaeda, still raise money with bin laden dead and gone? let's talk about it with jonathan chanzer, vice president of research at the foundation for defense of democracy, also a former terrorism analyst at the treasury department and author of "al-qaeda's armies". treasury plays a big role in trying to combat these terror groups because if you're going to conduct a

terror campaign, you have to have money to pay for it. that's where treasury comes in. so what about it? with bin laden dead, does their funding dry up? >> well, let me just say this. i think first of all the treasury has done an excellent job over the last ten years going after the financial modes that al-qaeda has relied on to fund its operations, and i think we've been able to shut down a number of charities in this country, we've gone after charities abroad, we've been working with our allies and i think we've dried up a lot of it. it's really forced al-qaeda to have to resort to what we call bulk cash smuggling, where you have individual donors, largely from saudi arabia and other oil-rich arab nations, who have been providing these funds to saudi arabia and it will come in the form of two cases and apparently delivered to places like in pakistan. jon: so pallet loads of cash going to al-qaeda. >> that's right. that's the way. because obviously if it works through our banking system we're able to track it and close in on it, and so as a matter of fact, we know that the courier of bin

laden was ultimately what led us to his capture. so it is -- at the same time that it's their lifeline, it happens to be a major vulnerability. but i think the bottom line is the al-qaeda network will continue to evolve, it has been over the last ten years or so, since we've really started to squeeze it, it has evolved, it's gone through several phases from franchises or affiliate groups to the sort of informal networks to a lot of lone wolf operators. we continue to see al-qaeda evolve, and i am sure that we will continue to see that on the part of its funding as well. jon: in the short run, though, does his death perhaps build some sympathy that could help fundraising for al-qaeda? >> well, i think yes and no. on the one hand, i think bin laden was probably a very good fund-raiser. this was probably one of the most famous jihadis if not the most famous jihadi in the world and that has probably to do with his success as a fund-raiser among the gulf-rich arabs that i was talking about, but i think now the question is can somebody fill in bin

laden's place and begin to fundraise successfully. i think you need to look for other people who have that sort of similar fame, maybe al wa zahiri, the deputy of al-qaeda or anwar al-awlaki, the american-born jihadist who's been behind a lot of these attacks coming out of yemen. those are two names that come to mind that had the notoriety bin laden had enjoyed until his death and i think that will probably determine the success to the fundraising moving forward. jon: jonathan schanzer from the foundation for defense of democracies, thank you. >> thank you. jon: we're going to be back with more coverage, straight ahead, "happening now". to keep in balance after 50,

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martha: jon was talking about fundraising for usama bin laden. they are reporting a burst in fundraising after this successful mission. go to foxnews.com to check that out,