>> chris wallace has the next round. the top i think, spending and the national debt. senator santorum, you say that republicans should refuse to raise the debt limit unless they can -- democrats, agree to take out all funding for obama care. is ending or blocking or defunding obama health care reform more penitentiary -- more important than keeping the country from default? and also, how do you defend your plan on medicare to turn it into a voucher system, not 10 years from now as paul ryan suggests, but right away for seniors whoa are already in the program? >> well, what i would say is that we are in a critical time in our country with debt. and we have a program that is going to explode the debt even further. and more important than debt, what obama care does is shift this fundamental belief of our founders that our country was created to make sure that people are free. that's what exactly america is

about. it's about keeping people free and giving them the ability to provide for themselves. what obama care does, it creates a broad-based entitlement for every living america ttakes control of people's lives in a very, very important part, which is their health. to me, it's a game changer. it has to be stopped. it's the most important issue that face this is country right now. we have to, as conservatives and republicans, we have to stand up and say, no, we are not going to let this bill be implemented. we are not going to let government take control of our lives, be in a position where we are addicted to a drug of government for every working man and woman in this country. it must be stopped now. >> congressman paul, you routinely vote against raising the debt limit, would you let the country go into default, which would only make continued borrowing even more expensive for the u.s. government? you want to cut government

spending by 50%, eliminating the federal reserve to the department of homeland security? >> yeah i. under your plan, what would you leave for the federal government to do? >> i would like to default the constitution -- [cheers and applause] >> have you a government that provides national defense, but you don't have mill militarism. maybe we could take care of people at home if we weren't spending $1.5 billion a year on military. that money needs to be spent at home and we would have more defense, not less defense. i don't see why we should raise the national debt. you say default. probably not. they have money coming in. they can patch it over and pay it. that's the only way to get a message. it is nothing new. our country has defaulted three times. they promised at one time during the civil war to pay in gold. they refused to. in the 30s, they promised to

pay in gold. they refused to. in 1971, they promised to pay foreigners in gold, we defaulted. once again, we are going to default. we are defaulting every day. that's what the prices are doing. they are defaulting on your money. we need to look at the federal reserve system. [cheers and applause] >> mr. cain, we asked our viewers to send in questions and a number of them wanted us to ask about this subjectful you say abolish the irs and impose a fair tax, which is a national sales tax of 23%. the experts say to generate enough revenue, americans would have to start paying taxes on new home sails, they valid to pay taxes to rentals and they valid to pay taxes on health care. and according to the experts, the practical effect of a fair tax would be a tax cut for the wealthy and a tax increase for the middle class. >> chris, with all due respect,

your experts are dead wrong. i have set up a fair tax for a long timing. first of all, it is 23%. let's not leave out the most important part. it replaces all federal income tax that is taken out of people's checks. it replaces the payroll tax, being taken out of people's checks. that's the part that people often forget to miss. now, depending on how you define a windfall for the rich, it is also a bonanza for the not so rich because of the prebait. every family deserves to get a prebait to offset taxes that would be paid on essential goodings and services. that levels the playing field in my opinion and especially gives the not so much an advantage that they don't have today, under our current system. so yes, i strongly support, totally replacing the current code with the fair tax

[applause] >> governor pawlenty -- wait, wait. >> there are nine questions for all of these guys and none for me. so the fair tax -- okay. >> all right, all right. okay. i have a question for you right here, sir. >> oh, good. >> governor pawlenty, you like to say that in minnesota, you balanced the budget without raising taxes. but the national conference of state legislatures said that you used a lot of one-time fixes, such as taking $2 billion from the obama stimulus plan and borrowing billions from local school districts. the bottom line is that you left your state after your term as governor with a projected deficit of $6 billion, sir. >> chris, i was governor for the state of minnesota for 8 years, over four two-year budget cycles. every budget during my time as governor was balance and the last one of those two-year budgets ends this coming summer on june 30 and it will end up in the black. when they talk about the

projected deficit in the next two years after that, it assumes a 25% or so increase in state spending. that's outrageous. if they live within their means, there would be no deficit at all. by the way, the democrats in minnesota wanted more spending. so this idea that there is a deficit and i left it in minnesota is not accurate. the two-year budget cycle ends in the black in the summer and the two years after that is a projection based on preposterous assumptions. >> if i may make a follow-up, one of the reasons people talk about a projected deficit of $6 billion is from the borrowing you took from local school districts and the state has to pay back the local schools $4 billion. >> well, actually, the deferral of those payments to schools was something that i wanted to make permanent through an executive action, called allotments and asked the legislate tower make them permanent. and they refused. so they choose to do it one

time. by the way, in this session, now it looks like they will make it permanent. and they should have done it when i asked them the first time. >> governor johnson, i am glad to get to you, sir. >> great! thanks. >> you say that medicare and medicaid should be cut almost in half, turned into bloc grants and that the state should run health care. won't democrats be able in the 2012 campaign to tell senior fist they follow your plan that the republicans want to take away their medicare? >> well, first of all, we have -- we are on the verge of a financial collapse. i say that from the standpoint that we owe $14 trillion. and there is no way we repay that, given the fact we have $1.65 trillion in deficit spending this year, last year, the year before and years to k. we need to balance the federal budget. to do that, we need to talk about medicaid and medicare. by cutting them by 43% bloc

granting the state 50 laboratories of ibovation, all out and the notion of best practices, would dwef best practices for the delivery of health care to the poor and those over 65. if we don't, we will find ourselves bankrupt, which is where we are finding ourselves n. new mexico, as governor, medicaid was fee-for-service. i changed that to managed care. it was a 25% savings. if i would get medicare, i could have implemented that same 25%, federal government do away with the mandates and 43% do-able. >> thank you, sir. >> governor, we promise -- we will be fair and balanced with the questions. >> fair and balanced. that's what i was thinking. >> shannon breen has the next round. >> mr. cain, you have said that sometimes states should be empowered to enforce laws and the federal government will not. in sb-1070, congressman paul has

said laws like that can be harmful and even dangerous to innocent americans. did arizona go too far? >> i don't believe arizona went too far. let's make sure we are talk solving the right problem. the immigration issue in america is not one problem, it's four problems, securing the border, enforcing the laws that are there, promoting the fath to citizenship that we already have. we don't need a new path. we need to clean up the bureaucracy in the process. and number 4, this is where i believe you empower the states to do what the federal government cannot and is not doing. so, no, arizona did not go foo far. they were simply trying to protect themselves. i believe in empowering the states to do what this federal government cannot micromanage out of washington, d.c. [applause] >> senator santorum, have you worked against a path to citizenship and for making english the official national

language of the united states. right now at the white house and democrats are actively renewing their outreach to the hispanic community, does the g.o.p. run the risk of alienating hispanic voters. >> my father came to this country when he was 8 years old. when i used to visit my grandparents, my grandmother didn't speak english. i always asked my dad, dad, why don't you teachny italian? he said, you are an american and you need to learn american language. that's the success of america. we are not doing anybody any favors to not teach them the language that will empower them in this country and it's the most powerful language in the world. i don't apologize for that. i think most people who come to this country understand the pshs of the english language and it has to be the language of the country. as far as the president outreach to the latino community, the president of the united states had a year with complete control of the legislature and could

have passed any bill he wanted and they didn't even take a vote and he never proposed a bill. this is a political issue for the president. he's playing political games with a very important group of people in america. we need to stop the political games and get the solutions and that's not what they are doing in washington. >> thank you. governor johnson, another question for you. you said we should make it easier for immigrants to come here and work in the united states and that republicans should stop using scare tactics and vilifying immigrants and you refer to a, quote, amnesty grace period. what is that? >> first of all, i start with the premise that immigration is ultimately responsible for tens of millions of jobs. so creating tens of millions of jobs as opposed to taking away of jobs. i think we should make it as easy as possible to get a work visa. it would not be citizenship or a green card, but a background check and a social security

occurred so taxes would be paid. immigration needs to be about work, not welfare. with regard to 11 million illegal imgrants here in this country, we need to recognize that the government's the main reason they are here, they have made it impossible to get a work visa. set up a grace period for a work visa -- not citizenship, or a green card, document the workers. so when it comes to building a fence across 2,000 miles of border, when it comes to putting the national guard across 2,000 miles of border, in my opinion, that would be a lot of money spent with very little if any benefit whatsoever. >> thank you, governor. >> i want to change the topic back to foreign policy, sharing this round with juan. mr. cain, president obama justified his intervention into libya saying he refused to wait for the images of slaughter and mass graves before taking action. yet in syria, the administration

has not acted, despite hundreds of protesters reportedly killed at the hands of president assad. which action, in your mind, is the right one? >> neither, for the following reason. we should start with, what's the objective, number 1. secondly, how does it relate to the interests of the united states of america. thirdly, is there a plan for victory? how do you define that? in both of those instances, those things are not clear. we need a real clear national security strategy, with every nation on the planet friend or foe. we obviously didn't have that because you can see between those two examples inconsistencies in the president's decisions and in his actions. and even in libya, when the civil strike first started out, he was supporting the exposed leader. then he changed.

so that meant we didn't have a very clear strategy or a very clear definition of what we were going to do if the situation escalated, which is exactly whath it has done. >> governor pawlenty, in a recent interview, you faulted president obam for saying that u.s. policy was to oppose dictator muammar al-qaddafi and failing to send in special forces to do the job. wouldn't your policy result in either chaos or prolonged u.s. involvement? >> muammar al-qaddafi has american blood on his hands, hawfnl he killed americans and others as they flew from europe to the united states, some years ago. he killed americans in a disco in europe. ron paul tried to kill muammar al-qaddafi in the 80s. he missed him -- not by much. president reagan was right in that regard. i called for the establishment or the threat of the no-fly zone, i think one of the first

national voices to do so on march 7. had the president been decisive in that moment, the rebel his taken over most of the country geogreaivegally, they had the momentum, they had muammar al-qaddafi on the ropes. he was talking about leaving voluntarily. and we could have shoved him out at that moment. now what the president does is wait the better part of a month, he waited for the arab league to give him permission. he waited for the united nations to pass a resolution and then he said, by the way, american policy is to make khadafy go, but his hands are tied by the united nations and a subordinated our decision-making and options to that pathetic organization in many respects -- i would never put the united states in that untenable position. if the president says president khadafy must go, he must go. >> u.s. and european intelligence is saying there is no active or retired pakistani

military provided aid to osama bin laden in that compound, when he was living in that compound up to 6 years. would you cut off the $3.2 billion annually that the u.s. provides to pakistan? >> i think we are in a situation where we have to engage the pakistanis in a level we haven't done before. we have tolerated a lot of bad behavior on the part of pakistan, particularly in the area of waziristan. and we have not done what president bush said, saying you are with us or against us. we need to engage the pakistanis and say, look, we are fighting a critical battle for the country. you are either going to side with the united states or we are going to deliver ultimatums, such as you won't have the aid that we provided. we need strong leadership. we don't need as the president's adviser said, leading from

behind. we need in a dangerous time for our security, a president out there, in front, saying to the pakistanis, you cooperate with us in afghanistan or there will be consequences and one of the consequences should be aid. pakistan is a nuclear-armed country. the leaders are concerned about terror iferts taking them over. house speaker boehner said this is no time to back away from pakistan, insisting aid should continue -- >> i am not talking about walking away from pakistan. >> what about the aid? >> i am asking them to participate in a joint effort. i want to engage pakistan. they can be a vital ally. i am a very strong supporter in the time that i was in the congress and supported that aid package. pakistan is vital to our security interest. but they have to be a partner, not an antagonist. and clearly someone was not being a good partner to us in that region. >> congressman paul, have you expressed concern that israel

will act unilaterally and start war with iran. have you said you fear that the united states will condone an israeli attack on iran. how does president paul plan to stop israel from acting? >> i think israel has to do what they think is in their best interest and they shouldn't have to ask our permission. if they have border problems -- they didn't ask permission to bomb the nuclear site in iraq in the 1980s. i think that was fine. i think they are too dependent on us for money and economically and they are dependent in they can't work toward peace with a country we might not like them do to it. but i don't want any of this foreign aid because the principle is wrong. because it doesn't achieve anything. if we stop all the foreign aid, you say, you are going to hurt israel. you know, the arab and the muslim nations get twice as much

money as israel. there are people in israel -- it is not like 100% of the people in israel or every jew in this country believes we should have the foreign policy that we have. i think israel should be in charge of their sovereignty and we should never intrude on what they do. if they want to attack iran, we shouldn't tell them what to do or what not to do. >> governor johnson, perspective candidate donald trump has proposed putting a 25% tax on chinese imports if china does not stop manipulatorring its currency. do you agree with that? what would you do? >> i am a free market guy. i believe that you believe in free markets or don't. you believe that lower costs of goods and services benefit all of us, or you don't. so, no, i don't favor tariffs against china or of any kind, whatsoever.

>> in any instance? >> no. >> that was simple. okay. governor, thank you very much. when we come back, the debate over unions in wisconsin and of course, right here in south carolina. >> too many politicians have failed to tell the truth about our financial crisis. they left wisconinnites in the dark. the facts are clear, wisconsin is broke and it's time to start paying our bills today. >> the republican debate continues, right after this. [ male announcer ] if you think "heroes" are only in movies, consider this: over 70% of firefighters are local volunteers... these are our neighbors putting their lives on the line. and when they rely on a battery, there are firefighters everywhere who trust duracell. and now you can join with duracell to help. just buy specially-marked packs & duracell will make

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>> reporter: i'm chairman of the south carolina republican party. thank you for being with us for the first in the south 2012 republican presidential debate many we are in the heart of the upstate a region which has played a crucial role in selecting the republican leaders. since our primary inception in 1980, no republican has won the nomination without first winning south carolina. our conservative upstate has always been a key battle ground for the republican nomination. so it is very appropriate that a larger debate about the future of our nation begins here. we are pleased to partner with fox news in putting on this debate and give credit to the team at fox andlx our team in

south carolina. take care and god bless you all. [ applause ] >> bret: thank you karen. now back to the debate. shannon bream has the next round of questions. >> shannon: congressman paul n 2007 in an interview you were asked, should gays be allowed to marry? you said sure they can do whatever they want and call it whatever they want. are you advocating legalizing gay marriage in this country? >> i spent a chapter in a new book i've written on marriage. i think it is very important, seeing i've been married for 54 years now. but, i think the government should just be out of it. it should be done by the church or private contract and we shouldn't have this argument. who is married and who isn't? i have my standards. but i shouldn't impose my standards on others. others have standards they have no right to impose their marriage standards on me. i don't like it. but, if we want to have

something to say about marriage, it should be at the state level not at the federal government. get the government out. one area where unnecessary and caused more trouble than necessary. [ applause ] >> shannon: given that answer, i have to ask about your defense of marriage act which defines marriage as between one man and one woman. weeks ago you criticized this administration for its z to no longer defend it against legal challenges. >> the reason is, defense of marriage act, i've been quoted as i voted for it. i supported it, but i want there because that bill protects the states. i do recognize that the federal government shouldn't tell tates what to do. the defense of marriage act was designed to make sure that the states have the privilege of dealing with it. and the government can't impose their standards on them. >> shannon: thank you, sir. mr. cain, you have said the

administration's decision not to defend it is a breach of presidential duty bordering on treason. pretty tough language. isn't that country just moving toward accepting gay marriage? >> the defense of marriage act is one of laws of the land, signed in 1996, by president clinton. for the president to give direction to the justice department, when in his oath of office, he says he is supposed to protect and uphold the laws of the united states of america, to me that is asking the justice department to not uphold a law. [ applause ] >> shannon: thank you, sir. governor johnson, most republicans and everyone else on this stage, but you, identify themselves as pro-life. you have said abortion should be legal until the fetus is viable. how do you hope to woo conservative gop voters in south carolina and across the country with that position? >> i support a woman's right

to choose up to the viability of the fetus. as governor i would have signed the bill banning late term abortion of the i've always favored parental notification, counseling and the notion that public funds should not be used for abortion. running for governor of new mexico, in a state that was 2-1 democrat, i didn't get that vote in the primary. but i like to think that i got all of those votes in the general election. that's a reality here in also. for those individuals that hold that as their number one issue, i'm not going to get that vote. i would hope to get that vote if i were to move on to the general election. >> shannon: governor pawlenty, days ago a federal court struck down the ban on using federal funds for embryonic stem cell research. you identify yourself as pro-life but don't oppose research on existing stem cell lines already derived from

embryos. isn't that still spending taxpayer money on elements generated by at some point destroying an embryo? >> as to stem cell research it holds great promise. i think it should be adult derived. [ applause ] >> by the way, most of the therapies and breakthroughs that we are seeing in terms of treatment are coming from adult derived stem cell research. i strongly support that as to embryonic stem cell research, i don't think we should pursue that president bush said he would allow and authorize the use of research on certain stem cell lines for which the embryo had previously been destroyed before the issue came to his desk or his attention. i did support his approach for that limited window of stem cell research on those existing lines for which the embryo had already been destroyed. >> shannon: thank you. senator santorum, you often characterized as the most socially conservative in the

gop field. a man who may join you at some point, mitch daniels says republican candidates should declare a truce on social issues in the next election. are you willing to tone down our positions on abortion and homosexuality in an effort to reach more voters and help the gop coalesce behind a more fiscal platform? >> america is a -- america is a country based on this concept. the declaration of independence many we are endowed by our creator with certain rights. the first is life, the second is liberty. those two concepts transform the world. it said government was going to be limited allow people to be free and pursue their own dreams and serve their god and family and community that is only possible if we have