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tv   Forbes on FOX  FOX News  July 2, 2011 11:00am-11:30am EDT

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well , the dramatic capitol murder trial of casey anthony continues, it is entering the home stretch in legal speech. welcome to brand new hour of america's news headquarters. we'll go over more of the trial. we'll reveal key moments courtroom and show you blockbuster testimony. this is judge perry giving both sides off today so they can prepare for closing arguments tomorrow and the fate of casey anthony will be squarely in the hands of the jury. by the way, we'll carry live coverage of the closing arguments tomorrow . stay tuned to the fox news channel and the jurors have a lot to take in, including
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stunning temperature by prosecution witnesses this week. george anthony back on the witness stand, and he was asked did he have an affair with a woman by the name of crystal holloway. let's take a listen. >> sir, i never had a romantic affair with christ hal holloway and whatever name she gave you and the world. if i am not mistaken she has a questionable past and arrested for fraud . breaking and entering. she is not a good person. >> just çasking. did you have a romantic relationship with her. no, sir. that is very funny. >> very funny? >> yes, sir. >> were you intimate with her? >> no, that is also very funny. >> and crystal holloway took the witness stand and known as
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river cruise, and here's what she had to say. >> did you get to know mr. anthony little better? >> yes. >> did you develop a relationship with mr. anthony. >> yes, sir, i did. and was it an intimate relationship? >> yes . did mr. anthony go to your home and to your apartment? >> it was my home and yes, he did. >> we are going to show you why that is relevant. as she continue to testify, jaws were dropping in the courtroom about what george allegedly told her in one of their tryst. we'll bring in our legal panel. bureau chief in the king's district county office. the forensic pathologist and criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. >> this is classic he said/she
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said going on. >> yes, but she has a key piece of evidence if the jury believes her could acquit casey anthony in that it was an accident and that spiraled out of control and that's the point the defense want to make. >> we'll show you in a second. george, the excop he is sort of slid in their alleged criminal record so that the jurors heard it. you can't unring the bell. >> he is a bright man and he knows what he is doing. i think in general i am with george anthony being a credible interest. i think there was a text he said to her. i need you in my life . even with that. prosecution can take those statements he allegedly made nothing more than a grieving father. >> out of the notice where, the anthony, cindy, casey and
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george anthony were front page headlines everywhere . television shows and sometimes people become instantly famous and and suck in people who love to insinuate themselves in famous people's lives. >> that's true. prosecution are saying that is what crystal holloway. >> they didn't show it in the testimony. i watched the testimony as you did. i believe she was a persuasive credible witness and so this confession of george anthony, a telling her allegedly it was an accident that snow balled out of control and a death bed statements and suicide statements and statements he wanted the people to believe as he going out of the mortal coil. those things taken together present a tough case for the prosecution. and why did you understand.
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and george with the alleged affairs and tryst. help the accused. >> he was sitting on my couch . i was sitting on the floor . he told me, he said it was an accident that snow balled out of control and i was in shock and by the time i looked up, his eyes were filled with tears and i didn't elaborate or ask him anything further. hum. >> where is the rebuttal. >> i am going to show it to you. i think george takes the witness stand and talks not only about the affair, but his reference to an accident that snow balled out of control. take a listen to this. >> you never told christ malholloway while the two of you being romantic that this was an accident that snow
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balled out of control? >> assumes facts not in evidence. >> your honor,, the witness' answer was nonresponsive and i want to be clear on the answer. >> yes, or no mr. anthony? would you ask that one more time, please? >> you never told her it was ran accident that snow balled out of control. >> never . >> and so the jurors are left to figure out if it was said. was it said sort of a hope or guess as to what happened to his grand daughter or did he know because he was allegedlyy involved? >> and the prosecutor is pretty easy to decode it to the jury in a way that helps the prosecution. what is clear.
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listen to what he said. take it true for a moment he said these thingings, ladies and gentlemen. at that point his grand daughter's body is not found. in his heart of hearts, he knows she is probably gone and by sinister means and by the hands of his own daughter and so it is his daughter and he wants to believe that if something happened it was an accident and it is a man reeling from what is going on around him. he could have said it and take it as true and nothing more than a gut response to what is happening. >> fewer than greater homicides. >> that's the truth. >> now, that being said. if i am the defense lawyer. listenn member of the jury you have a opportunity to see mr. anthony answer that question. he had a hard time. he really couldn't answer that question with regard he said
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it was an accident snow balling out of the control. what was the delay in that response. i find that to be incredible and i am seated in the jury and incredible. >> he said that before the body was found and cause of death was proposed. and also, she gave him money. some $20,000. which he didn't deny and he was caught on security cameras going into her house at odd hours in her residence . gives river cruise more credibility than him and talk about perjury with cindy anthony. >> she took money, too. >> and more from crystal holloway explaining this and being challenged. >> what you said page 16 and line one and completed on page 17, read that out loud.
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>> he said you just said that. i really believe it was an accident and it went wrong and she tried to cover it up. he never told you that he knew it himself. he that he knew that to be the case. >> i just told you what he said. i never elaborated to anything else. i never said that he said anything else other than what he said. >> other than that than he believe today was an accident that snow balled out of control and she tried to cover it up. >> that's not what he said. it was an accident that snow balled out of control. >> but he didn't claimm he actually was there or knew that? >> you are right. i agree wu. >> he said he believed it. >> he did not say he believed
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it. >> effective cross by the prosecution or not. >> no, i don't think so. the prosecution is hanging their hat on believe and hammer it home. we can also use the argument to say he is a grieving grandfather and believe no, he was trying to get a point it was an accident and that's why his grand daughter was dead. >> it is a belief derived from hope and my daughter didn't kill her and it was a terrible accident. >> yes, whether that word was said or not. that doesn't matter . while i do think it was reasonably effective cross. i don't think they needed to go there. take care of her background. the biggest thing. george's reaction to it and i think you can take it as true. >> i think his credibility is destroyed and i think they will run.
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>> every aspect. >> absolutely. >> because there is a critical issue with regard to sexual relations . he denies it with casey anthony and denies with an alleged mistress there 12 times and he's consorting with a person that he is saying accused break entering and fraudulent crimes and what is he about? what is the real picture of anthony and did we see it? >> there is a jury instruction and that may be a telephone conference call between the judge and counsel that said to the jurors if you disbelieve one portion of a witness' testimony, you are entitled to disregard all of the testimony that that witness gives whether that is going to be a jury instruction or not. >> i bet it will be. >> and you told me you doubt
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it. >> you don't think so. >> i think it will be a jury. i don't think the jurors will take the judge up on it. they will be able to parcel it out. >> if that is heeded, you will not believe any witness in the case at all. >> that's right. >> we shouldn't layoff at a capitol murder case. but boy, this truly has to be one of the strangest that people have seen. you wanted to jump in on this dr. vaughn? >> one . strangest and only time that anybody has been charged with duct tape over the mouth and chloroform and the reason, it isn't charged before, people don't do it because it is too mess yedifficult and there are easier ways that one can kill a baby without going through all of the problems that you would have to go through with chloroform and duct tape. >> fox news channel will carry
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all of the court action tomorrow when we hear the closing arguments from the prosecution and defenseif you can't be in front of a television, we hope you are. you can watch the coverage streaming live the ipad. download the fox news channel app. it is free and it is easy and you can get it by logging on to fox news.com/ipad and be sure to use all lower case letter when is you do that by the way. when we come back. we'll put on the screen a complete summary of the prosecution's case and have they proven it beyond a reasonable doubt and we'll hear from the star witness for the prosecution, the medical examiner in a moment.
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do you have an opinion as to the manner of death in this case? >> yes.
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>> what is that opinion? >> homicide. >> and the fact that there is duct tape anywhere attached to the child's face is to me an indication of a homicide. >> was she a good witness or persuasive? >> we'll talk about that in a second. here is a summary of the prosecution's evidence in the case. we'll put it on the screen for you so you can judge for yourself. casey lied repeatedly about caylee's where abouts. casey failed to report caylee missing for 31 days. casey seemed happy and unconcerned during that period of time. she was out partying and having a good time. air samples showed human decomposition in her car and a strand of hair from trunk consistent with caylee's . hair strand showed decomposition and not necessarily dead body. insects showed that dead body was inside of the trunk and
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there were traces of chloroform in the trunk of the car and the word chloroform and neck breaking were found on casey's computer and of course, the medical examiner testified as to manner of death, homicide. >> in the grand scheme of prosecuting cases, you would be comfortable with that as a prosecutor. >> i would love the evidence. you take the pieces and even take one or two or more away you can get e end up with the same thing. forensics is new. but take it away and what the witnesses say and coupled with everything else. i think it is a home run for the prosecution if they sum it up correctly. >> doctor, you started writing quickly. i don't think it is junk science just because it is new. >> the whole supreme court came down with a national
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academy of science report. you can't introduce novele science confirmed by anybody else but your own labratory. a fellow who used divining roads . the insects that you refer to, all they had to do was do dna on insects and that would prove whether or not they had fed on the decedent. they chose not to do insect dna but put in chloroform disputed by the experts, the f.b.i. disputed that and air samples. no one has been able to identify unique about human decomposition and i have done it many decade and decomposing bodies smell differently on a lot of things including diet. no humans can identify and humans after they were removed. >> i want to mention that your
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wife is a fine lawyer and involved in the defense early on. >> i am not comment i don't have a opinion on guilt or innocence. >> it makes a difference judge napolitano said bad evidence is introduced and give rise to appealable issues and gives bad omens for the future. >> as i understand the supreme court decision. it is not necessarily it is excluded, but goes to the weight of the evidence and not the admissinty. you think that the judge made a reversible error in allowing it. >> absolutely. it goes to the weight, but once the jurors hear that. when you have a case that is largely circumstantial. i think it was a big mistake for the judge. we were not trying to prove caylee was dead. we knew she was dead. she was in the trunk, she was in the trunk. >> there is no one brighter on it.
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it is not pure review. colleagues haven't reviewed it. doctor, bright guy and phd. but he is a research scientist and not a forensic scientist. this was never testified before in a homicide trial. saying we'll execute the young woman for the death of the child based on untested nonpeer review testimony not seen in florida before, and say because of smell avision. i know the smell of death and at the same time prosecution seeking to introduce the jury and smell the can and convict here. and it is not junk science. and in the minority at the
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table . i have esteemed advocates. but i am comfortable that is not reversible error and the jury can consider it and disregard it. you put it all together. even if it was an error. it would be harmless. others have looked at it. there is peer review. >> i agree . going forward. do we want jurors and judges and prosecutors to say. >> i thought you said it is reversible error. >> i think it should be. florida is a tough state. >> i want to get back to the person who may have been the smoothest witness. she has a television background and that is the medical examiner .
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remember, no doctor was able to testify to the cause or mechanism of death. but manner of death, yes. take a listen to >> by my experience and by what is known about the way homicides occur. i felt the preponderance of the evidence and no other logical conclusion could be found by not reporting a child for 30, who has a legal and moral and ethical obligation and not reporting that the child missing and the fact it is tossed in a field to rot in bags and it is a clear indication that the body was trying to be hidden and even put in a bag is a big red flag for homicide and never seen in accidental death of a child and fact that there is duct tape attach to the child's
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face is to me an indication of a homicide. >> that's the manner of death. homicide. you have a wide variety of choices when you are me and doing the autopsy. natural, suicide or homicide. she said it is a homicide. >> given everything she knew she couldn't say it is suffocation . she is relying on what the police investigators is found. casey lied and behaved improperly . not depending on the forensic science and the reason it was put in because it was an overreaching on the part of the prosecutor. a thousand babies killed by parents rarely does anybody come up for capitol punishment and i think this permitted them to get a death certified
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ry. cause of death is not legally necessary in front of a jury. you don't have to show a motive. >> you don't need a body. but they have introduced a lot of stuff that is not valid. >> and may have overreached. peter, you were shouting out as we were watching it. >> the tape of the prosecution witness. why wasn't he on the feet. what is the witness talking about. she said there sia legal and moral and ethical obligation. that siquote from common sense logic dumping a body in the field. is that what is in her -- why doesn't she talk about religion and other issues with regard to the case. homicide is a conclusion. if i am on the jury what is
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the means and mechanism and what is the date and where did it happen and how did it happen and where is the bottle of chloroform? >> and medical examiner can confined to what happens in the autopsy room. >> no, if they were they wouldn't be doing their jobb. the medical examiner has to use expertise and medicine and science that they have. but they use every bit of information that they get and put it altogether and that's why they are an expert. they take what they learn on their own through the investigation and couple it with the obligation such as duct tape . rabbis and ministers and priests and immam. they are expert in ethics and morerality. that's not the medical examiner's field and put the mum bo, jump bow together without forepsic evidence.
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that is a poor substitute. i am not saying if she is guilty or not guilty. >> this little girl was left in a wamp for a month. >> it is an emotional argument. >> what the medical examiner had and needed to work with. >> we don't know if she was left in the swamp for a month. where is the testimony? >> she was missing. >> and let me ask what is the testimony that casey or george brought her to the field or wamp? where is the presumption that the medical examiner is making. there is none. >> and they also, doctor knew all of the stuff . she was unwilling to say that the cause of death was suffocation . they couldn't get her to say that on rebuttal . they got ananthpologist who testified much beyond expertis
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to say it was suffocation and something he's never been able to do before i am sure and since thanthpologist don't open the skull and they save the bones, a forensic pathologist has no right to say the head should be open. >> he is an in bones and not cause of death and autopsy. he also testified that he could tell and no one else could tell this . medical examiner that the duct tape was put on while the child was alive. >> she was not able to come up with a cause of death. but homicide. >> fine, but the cause of death becomes important. >> and we have had doctor, expert and bone expert and insect experts. a grieve experts and i am sure i am leaving out 20 others and it has been a case for a lot of experts a

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