fat cats are hat firefighter. >> we don't need their profit motive. we can do it on their own as a community. >> that is what the protesters say but can they? i don't think so. nor does the president of best bay we live better than anybody else in the world does but we presume that just happened. >> it didn't just happen. prosperity was created by businesss. >> we should be reward for the productivity and creativity. >> acting in our own interest sometimes can build a maurice taylor ral environment. >> but some politicians think c.e.o.s are immoral and greedy. here is the senator from vermont. >> corporate greed is destroying the dreams and aspirations of millions of american people. >> all that we get is grief and

more hoops to jump through and forms to fill out and more regulations to comply with. >> so much regulation that this c.e.o. says. >> it is freer to do business in china than it is in the united states. >> tonight, c.e.o.s fight back. we will talk to business leaders from staples. >> that was easy. >> from a restaurant chain. >> and others including one of those evil bankers. >> businesses love creating jobs. >> john: ceos tackle job creation, immigration ruling regulation and explain how they made it in business. >> my favorite toy growing up was my train set. i started a restaurant which is just like my big train set. i get to play with it every day. >> john: the c.e.o.'s perspective. that is our show, tonight. and now, john stossel. >> john: who creates jobs? somehow many americans believe it is the government.

when i ask people outside this office what do they want government to do? some said things like this. >> more jobs. >> more jobs. >> john: why would they think government can create jobs? probably because politicians tell them that. >> my job is to create jobs. >> president obama was a job creator from day one. >> it as plan that will trigger the creation of millions of new jobs for americans. >> john: what is humorous, politicians don't create jobs. government has no money of its own. all government does is take from some people and give it to others and that creates jobs here but money taken from the private sector over here means the private sector now has less to spend on job creation. the only people who create sustainable jobs and real wealth are private businesses. some c.e.o.s are upset that people don't understand that, a and they don't. they just formed a group called the job creator's alliance. the show is made up of c.e.o.s

from that alliance. six men who started or built businesses and also ended up creating more than, creating not saving or creating, creating more than a quarter billion jobs. tom stenberg who founded staples. >> that was easy. >> the biggest office supply chain in the world. brad anderson who helped expand best buy into the $50 billion company it is today. and david parks c.e.o. of austin capital which has businesses that -- which has 8 businesses that help small businesses manage themselves. so, people don't like you you business people. maybe best buy and staples, they are consumer friendly but the perception is that you don't do much good and the government creates jobs. you are head of the alliance. you formed this to fight that? >> well, we formed the organization to represent small business. and small business itself

creates the majority of jobs and employs the majority of the people. and one of the problems in the country is that small business has no voice and because they have no voice it is easy to attack business people and easy to attack business. >> john: why just small business. big business is okay, too. >> in order to have a sustainable long-term economic growth we really need to start focusing on small business and we were all at one point when we started small business and we got ten people together, the founding members and c.e. o.s of one of the best american brands in the country that have taken small businesses and turned them into large businesses and one of the things we are trying to do is make sure small business who we believe is going to make this country stronger again, is who we need to represent. >> john: all right. and brad, you have talked about you needed 2:business needs to speak out because there is a sense that you guys are evil.

>> you know, i think part of that is the general perception that business people -- to be honest with you,ky relate to that because when i started many years ago, i wasn't interested in a business career. i stumbled into a business career and i thought business was evil. >> john: how did you get in. >> i dropped out of seminary. didn't know what to do with my life. there was a story about a -- got a job as a clerk in the store. 36 years later grew from 4 million to a $50 billion company. >> john: to best by. >> it was a pure fluke. >> business just takes on people. >> and based on greed and selfishness and couldn't be good. and watched what happens in building a business. the sound of music which became best buy was 11 years before it made them a dollar of profit and then it started losing money again. it is really hard to build a business and part of the reason forgetting involved with job

creators alliance is watching. that is with the economy how hard that is to do today because we are adding come complexity to the process. >> the media doesn't get it. >> they haven't seen the development of a business the way some of us have. >> john: most people in the media feel there is a pie and if you rich guys take a big chunk there is less for the rest of us. they don't get that you bake new pies. >> staples. there was nothing like staples before you created it. nothing really like best bias best buy emerged. that changes the marketplace and delivers things much more efficiently and expands people's standard of living. we live better than anybody else in the world does but we presume that just happened. >> john: or it is our government that gave it to us. >> no other government seems to and don't think ours dose either. >> john: tom? >> what bothers me is the people in washington think they create jobs.

they are creating $300 million worth of jobs in new consumer financial protection bureau which i don't think is doing much for productivity in america. we are creating all kinds of jobs trying to live up to dodd frank and trying to figure out what the ratio of the c.e.o. pay is to the average worker around the world and those jobs don't create much productivity. i would like to think the jobs financed through the highland consumer fund and i helped create over 100 jobs myself are real jobs and companies that are growing and adding employment and yet as brad -- >> these are brand new jobs. >> john: with the new venture capital firm. >> and these are brand new jobs and yet as brad points out all that we he get is grief and more hoops to jump through and more forms to fill out and more regulations to comply with and we got to post a sign in the lunchroom. >> john: this was just added in

regulations last year rehave to post in the breakrooms you ought to be encouraged to join a union. >> john: a big part of david's company is helping the companies do compliance. now, i see every business has to have a compliance department and i mean it is really a parasite like. they just suck away from creativity. >> one of the fastest growing invest segments is compliance software. >> it is awful. how did you start staple's? >> started being unemployed and looking for something to do truth be known and i shaw small businesses were getting ripped off that big businesses were buying pens for 77 cents a dozen and small businesses were paying $3.68 and i didn't think that was fair and try to figure out a way to get the little businesses similar prices to the big businesses. turned out to be a pretty good idea. >> john: and everybody else wants to be the c.e.o. of a

giant company. how come you were better at it? were you brown nosing the losses? >> no, what helps is if you start the company you get to decide more things when you get to do that. >> john: i didn't realize. >> helps to start it for sure. i think over time in this country hard work should be rewarded. and generally speaking if you meet the people who run these companies they work their butts off. i mean the perception in the public is these guys are flying around in private jets going from golf tournaments to fancy dinner. the reality these are 80 hour a week in these days in the internet age 24 by 7 jobs. anything good happens to you like you get a bonus you are subject to scrutiny in the media. >> john: how did you big a businessman? >> just like tom i founded it. >> and you came to american as an immigrant when you were six years old. >> i came over when i was six years old. >> john: your parents already

had some entrepreneurial attitude. >> i came over, i remember helping them at 7 standing on a box, ringing things up. >> john: illegal today. >> is that illegal? >> i think the parents can abuse you a little bit. >> and standing on a box an osha violation as well. >> i lived the american dream. started my own firm because i wanted to take control over my life. i wanted to make sure that i got to do what i wanted to do and either fail or succeed based upon how hard i worked. and we should be rewarded for the productivity and creativity and i think one of the interesting things people have asked me about me being from south korea is the difference between north and south right now and if you take a look at where south korea is currently they are heading towards free market and continuously opening up that free market and when you fly over korea you see light. when you look at north korea it

is all dark. >> i think we a picture. you can see that. light and dark. >> it becomes harder and harder for are you to be entrepreneurial because of the regulations because it is far harder to get financing then you are actually going towards darkness and going towards a regulated economy that we know doesn't work. >> john: some people would say yes, we know it does work, look at china. is a managed economy. they have five year plans and they are outgrowing us. >> that is actually the argument in the other direction because china was dark. >> that's right. >> and as it has pulled off the strings off you people all of a sudden the lights have come on. and there are lots of places where china has less regulation and it is freer to do business in china than it is in the united states. that is proof in my mind. >> john: recently rush limbaugh you took heat by saying greed fed more mouths than charity. and i read on the web people oh, what a disgusting person, how can he say this.

>> what drives me crazy on this issue is if you look at evolution and believe in evolution you believe that the species survives pac that the fittest survive based on an ability to do what others don't do. i'm not arguing in favor of greed but acting in self-interest. my dad is a pastor and did i a speech in front of a group of retired pastors trying to argue guy that one of the biggest surprises i had was acting in your own interests sometimes can build a maurice taylor ral environment. if i'm an employer the first thing i want to do is i got to knowky trust you. if i can't trust you. >> people perceive what entrepreneurs do as greed. pryy i know his first or pry motheprimarily motive was to ce the world. when meg whitman build up ebay, they billete build it up. my motive was to help small

businesses save and have a lot of fun doing it. made some money along the way and that was great. >> john: i would argue even if it was that is okay, too, because businesses can't use force. thank you david park, brad anderson, tom sten berg, these three alone helped create more than 200,000 jobs. coming up, more c.e. o.s and job creators. we will talk about where the best workers are and regulation. i said is a sample of the rules that today's c.e.o.s have to obey. my next guests say because of those rules today they could not build the companies they once built. once built. be right back.

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>> john: more jobs were created last month, that is good. but everyone is still upset that the unemployment rate is still too high. so why is it high?

tonight, i'm talking to job creators, successful ceos. my next guest created tens of thousands of jobs. how? and could they still do it in today's world? joining us now is john alisyn, former boss of bb and t the 12th biggest bank in america and mike whelan c.e.o. of heart of the america group which runs dozens of hotels and restaurants. could you do today what you did? >> you know, i don't think so. the reason is very simple. i had to have some bankers on main street small guys who would come and look me in the eye and say mike, maybe you don't have a lot of credit, maybe you don't have a lot of cash but i believe in you. and that character loan is the kind of thing that you do in the beginning that seed capital. they are almost like venture capitalists. there almost is small down bankers. >> john: pick and choose which one is going pay us back.

>> and it didn't underwriting standard dictated by dodd frank with 55 pages. a gut instinct that i think you are going to do it and go back to the same group of small guys out there in little towns. >> john: you are one of the once small guys you you lent money to people like him and now lend to lots of people. could you have build the bank the way you did? >> bbt started as a small business bank. my first ten years i made loans to small businesses, a lot of them farmers. it would be difficult to do what we did then today because the government regulations are so tight including setting credit standards and that is scary, particularly since the so-called financial crisis in the sense that they valuable information come in and changed the standards, making it hard for banks to finance small business. >> john: i can see my occupy wall street viewers saying good

because the lack of standards is what led to the imploak imp. >> it was a combination of the federal reserve printing too much money. led to a bubble in the residential real estate market and sub prime houseing that was generated by a long-term government policy that goes all the way back to lyndon johnson trying to raise home ownership above what is called the national market rate. >> john: and fannie and freddie. >> it was government policy and housing that caused the crisis. >> 90% of the banks in this country are less than a billion dollars. it is the small guys that have 37 employees and less than a billion dollars of assets where you two down and look the guy eye to eye than the ones that -- very simple process. small banks give small loans to small young companies and out of that group of things are the job producers. >> john: and you didn't intend to be. you were at harvard law school.

you didn't intend to be an entrepreneur. what happened? >> i spent one summer as an intern at a law firm and i said i'm going to go crazy doing this and my favorite toy growing up was my train set. i started a restaurant which is just like my big train set. i get to play with it every day and i get to pick who i played with. right now we are building an all green hotel that will have solar hot water heating and led lighting throughout. >> john: because you want to or because you are getting subsidies from the taxpayers. >> we will having fun doing it and it will be a cool product when we are done. >> john: how did you become the head of a monsterrously successful bank? >> when i joined bb and t it was a really small bank and worked up through the organization really trying to develop myself to tell you the truth. students ask me did i want to be c.e.o. and did i want to make a lot of money. i like being c.e.o. and making a lot of money but that was never my goal. my goal was to do anything i

did better than anybody else had ever done. to be world standard. >> john: that is the rol goal a lot of people working in business. how did you reach the top? >> i did a lot of self-development. i read a lot. i spent a lot of time working on my personal leadership development. i studied philosophy to get a set of principle that we used in the business and even did some what is called self-awareness because i was good at math and wasn't strong work with people. business people are moity visited by money but we are motivated mostly by building which is fun. in n. a true free market there is no unemployment. business will create jobs. it is government obstacles one way or another that create some unmany ployment. businesses love creating jobs because it is fun. >> john: well, thank you for creating those jobs. john alisyn and mike whelan, stand by, we more for you

later. next, some of the best and brightest in the world want to work for these c.e.o.s but @xóxcannot.

>> john: i keep hearing there aren't enough available jobs. that is why americans are suffering and upemployment stays pretty high. but there are jobs out there. at monster .com we just looked there are more than a million liftings. computer network engineer, 71,000 bucks a year. technical analyst, $40,000. truck driver. $40,000. clerical data entry, 10 to $14 an hour. entry level jobs. dishwasher, $8 an hour. companies tell us we have jobs to offer. the problem is there is some work americans, some americans

don't want to do and many other jobs they are not qualified for. c.e.o.s tell us they often have good jobs for people like engineers computer scientists and if they could fill them they would grow their companies and hire more americans and it turns out there are computer scientists and engineers who want that job. why don't they hire them? tonight's show is an all c.e.o. show. joining you the founder of staples. tom sten berg, now a venture capitalist. we don't we hire these people? >> one of the problems in the particular economy is a lack of certain skilled labor in particular when it comes to engineering pro h programming. one of the problems we are facing is people want overall immigration reform before trying to get some of these people to come to the united states give them a work visa. the truth of the matter is that these particular engineers will create jobs in america for

americans. >> john: i hear they steal jobs. was a job that might have gone to an american. >> for every engineer we hire in the united states there will be six or seven other types of manufacturing jobs we can bring back from china and india and other types of countries. there is all this conversation about illegal immigration. the truth of the matter is we have great, great shortage of skilled labor in this country particularly in engineering so unless we fundamentally change something about our educational system to build more engineers we will continue to lose these jobs because what we are doing is these immigrants are coming to the united states being educated and then they go -- >> john: foreign students now in three fourths of the doctorates in american universities in mathematics and computer science. >> and they are dying to work here. they go back to where they came from and they compete against us. >> because they can't get visas to stay here. >> john: one other argument is that some of them might come here to murder us.

>> there is always a risk that is the bad apple throughout but what we are doing is we are throwing the baby out with the bath water. if you want to come across the border from canada today, you get hassled incredibly. i'm on the board of based in vancouver but a fast growing company in the united states adding tons of very high paying jobs here in the united states. their executives have a h heck of a time coming across the border and it gets worse. >> john: from canada. >> from canada. the cfo was coming here to speak to an investment analyst in new york. they held him at the border for 8 hours and demanded he get a work permit. i have done business in england, frangela france, germ, nobody have asked me to get a work permit. the state of new york tries to figure out when you were here so they can charge you a tax for the four days you spent here. the state of new york is chasing him to try to collect taxes from him.

we have gone from one of the most business friendly countries in the world to one of the most unfriendly countries in the world. >> john: other countries in courage entrepreneurs. germany lets computer experts stay permanently. and if you start a business and cree great jobs you get in. in canada, economic contributors represent the largest fived immigrants. >> we are trying to protect against al-qaeda and killing our country in the process. >> the process is so long and one of the firms that we have. >> john: it hurts your. >> it hurts our company. we create millions of jobs and in order for to us get the types of people that can produce in a productive and a creative way we need the best talents from around the world. we are a borderless economy and technology has overtaken pure,

pure labor as a force of growing that economy and unless we bring people in that understand how to go about utilizing the technologies we are really going to go take a seat back in the world economy. >> john: you look at some of these companies. google, intel, sun microsystems, ebay, yahoo all have in common. >> people immigrant founders. >> people from other companies came here and created the jobs. the companies that outsource the most create the most jobs in america. >> david axelrod talks to his union friends, you know what he is telling him and they are telling him at the end of the day we end up with policies as well as practices which discourage immigration and discourage innovation. and it's terrible. >> john: thank you. coming up two more c.e.o.s. one who helped build america's biggest construction material company and another who employs

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[ male announcer ] trade commission-free for 60 days. plus get up to $600 when you open an account. >> john: tonight we have been talking to ceos, many complain about today's new regulations. the occupy wall street protesters would say what regulations? business needs more regulation. and it is natural to think that

a regulation will protect us from greedy business types. and the politicians and bureaucrats who impose them sure believe they will. rarely do they step back and look at the cumulative total of what the bureaucrats demand. but as of this week we are up to 160,000 pages of rules. that is what it looks like. you want to start a business? you better read all that or pay someone to read all of it. and to try to understand it or you could be in big trouble. and again, these are just the federal rules. states and towns have even more. how could any one possibly read all that and understand it and follow these rules? i know i couldn't. but i assume these two successful c.e.o.s can because they are not in jail. brad anderson ran best buy. and steven zellnick is chairman of marietta materials. did you read all these? >> if you can't summarize it in

one or two pages you are probably not going to understand it anyway. >> do you hire people? you have to obey them. >> you hire people to understand them. i don't know any one who ever reads the intimate details of all those regulations. it is far too complicated. >> john: you grew marietta materials to a very big company from 450 million in revenue to $2.2 billion. could you do that today with all these rules? >> we couldn't grow at the same pace. it would be impossible. the strategy we employed was to open new quarry operations. i think we would be lucky if we could open up 25% of the ones we opened up just trying to overcome the rules in particular. >> john: could you have built best buy? >> it barely survived for its first 25 years and it was really just guts and. >> had to pay for lawyers to read that.

>> no way. we couldn't begin to do it. >> john: and you are one of the honest big business types who is willing to say these rules help you in some ways. >> i had an argument with the government affairs came to me at best buy and said we should resist the rules. i said it depends. as an american i want to resist the rules as best buy executive i want to support the rules. >> they crush the little competitors. >> someone wants to compete with us they can't. we can afford to hire the guys to keep us in compliance with the law and they can't. >> john: the politicians don't get that but one who finally did was george mcgovern. >> ironically. when left office as a governor went and opened a hotel. a small bed and breakfast hotel. >> he wrote i wished during the years i was in public office i had the first hand experience about the difficulties people face. public policy does not consider whether we are choking off

business opportunities. >> the growth of technology comes out because of the freedom. if we crush that we also crush our future. >> and a most of these politicians have never run anything to they don't experience what they impose on others. >> tell us how you made marietta materials so successful. >> we focused on people. i have a firm belief. >> platitude. >> i have a firm belief if you get the right people together andenner gaze and motivate them they will carry you forward to a great success. >> you found a new way to ship stuff. >> we had a novel strategy that we implement. >> you ship thing business water and rail instead of truck. >> we saw the coastal areas growing and there was no aggregate there and we set up to cut transportation costs with the rail water network that was integrated and it was highly successful. but it took us a long time to do it and we had to be very patient. even the permitting

environmental side of that was very difficult to evercome even for a large company. >> john: and you are now horrified by the epa and its costs but you were a big supporter of the epa. >> i was a fan of the epa. i lived in two areas where i experienced red air and black snow and this country clearly needs to be cleaned up and i think the epa did a great job of that. we are at a point now and it has been that way for some years where w we are well passd it and they he keep layering on and layering on and it has become self-serving and runs for its own special interest. i would suggest to you that the primary taxing agency the united states government is not the irs, it is the epa. there are so many rules and regulations we talked about crushing the small business guy. there is no way the small business person can understand or pay for these rules. it is imposed at too low a level. big corporations can handle it and it is competitive advantage

for large corporations. >> coming up, the financial meltdown that started in 2008 and killed lots of jobs and destroyed lots of wealth. the ceos hostile to most regulations. what do they say they he should what do they say they he should do about the what do they say they he should do about the do you have an irregular heartbeat called atrial fibrillation, or afib, that's not caused by a heart valve problem? are you taking warfarin to reduce your risk of stroke caused by a clot? you should know about pradaxa. an important study showed that pradaxa 150mg reduced stroke risk 35% more than warfarin. and with pradaxa, there's no need for those regular blood tests. pradaxa is progress. pradaxa can cause serious, sometimes fatal, bleeding. don't take pradaxa if you have abnormal bleeding,

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>> regulation. more regulation for sure. wall street hasn't been regulated at all. >> wow. walm wall hasn't been regulated at all. i didn't know that. i guess this thing is nothing. nothing at all. this is the dodd-frank wall street reform consumer

protection act. 2019 pages. supposed to protect us while allowing lending. will it? go back to our ceo's banker bob allen and bob whalen who prospered by borrowing money . these are not mean people who do does this protect us? >> no. it was supposed to be a systemic risk of too big to fail. no, it didn't touch that and only people they're slapping down. the bankers are on main street and not the ones that caused the problem. stop systemic risk too big to fail and protect the consumer. as you read that. it is not accomplishing that either. law of unintended consequences. >> what is scary about this bill, if you want to control

the economy control the allocation of credit. that determines what gets built. what i think the administration is is stages. they want to control them in the back room and if it goes wrong blame the bankers. >> slap the kid in the back seat. the one that is quiet rather than the one that is raising cane. >> they don't know legal or not. >> i think you ceo's have done a lousy job. here's one more sample. talk about regulation. nothing happened, what we need is a financial transaction and regularulatory measures. >> that is a myth that the

banking regulations was deregulated . >> the bush -- >> privacy law and patriot act. we had an increase in regulation . >> but the glass eagle didn't go away under clinton. isn't that reckless. >> no, it did not. glass eagle paid no impact. golden c- goldman saches were doing what they needed to do. and the federal reserve decided to save goldman saches. golden eagle didn't matter. >> mike, you went to borrow money and what happened. >> it was a hotel and steak house . my company is solidly capitalized. >> you weren't when you began? >> not in the beginning. it was horribly

undercapitalized. but we are solid now. we went to 25 banks and they said great project and 30 days later, they said we are scared to make this loan because of the occ coming in and second guessing us. and our next examination and yet there is it an intuitive feeling that problems are solved with the rules. after eron we got served. the fcc admits section four alone had so much paperwork, the average company spends a million on it >> dodd-and lending and it was a small ipo. >> people say give us more regulation and it will protect us it is instinctive . >> they get a simplistic view

of what caused the financial crisis. >> it was not government policy. but helping low income people. but it was an unintended consequence . not lack of regulation. but that is it not what people hear. we are fixing the wrong. >> that was easy . >> thank you. coming up. my take on job creation and why so many americans hate ceo's like those who appeared on the show .

snix >> you aspire to be a ceo

rich and successful like the men i interviewed tonight. they created thousands of jobs and said we didn't do it for the money. businesses love to create jobs. it is fun. it is not about the money it is fun? give me a break. if you believe that i have a bridge i would like to sell you. i don't believe them it is largely about the money. that's okay. what is wrong with making mon nebusiness. if you do it legally, you do a good thing. the media portrade the successful businessman as a greedy fat cat. and our hollywood writers perpetuate the myth. and they celebrate corruption. corruption charges. >> corruption? corruption. it is marketed deficiency in the form of deregulation .

he got a nobel prize. corruption keeps us safe and warm corruption is why we are prancing around in here instead of fighting for scraps of meat in the street. >> corruption rarely win. honesty wins and treating your customers well . that's what helps your company grow. people don't realize that. they believe the hollywood version . in hollywood, the only acceptable villians these days are business men and terrorist as long as they are not muslim and monsters from outer space. and they haven't formed a lobby yet. business men, are the most successful movie is avattar. it is it racking the pristeen environment. >> this is why we are here.

unob tainable. it is the only reason. it is what pays for the whole parity and - party and your science. those savages are threatening our whole hollywood operation. >> they did a remake. and in the wall street journal. epistein points out the villian is no longer the soviet union. an american company modeled after halliburton. >> someone put an implant inside of me. >> fix the switch. we can adjust. and current and change personality. >> please, business is evil at toud thrives in hollywood. >> and we have the corporation. >> their ignorance makes me want to scream. >> what is it.

greed or charity. greed as fed more mouths than charity ever could. >> he took heat for saying that and he was right. greed in this context means pursuit of profit and created the jobs that allowed us to give to charity. mother theresa fed people. they helped hundreds of thousands and provided good product and selfishly growing their company and creating the jobs and allowed employees to provide for their families, that is capitalism and so many americans don't get that. the pollster told republican governors don't use the term capitalism but say free market instead. the left stole the word liberal from me and took a

great word that meant limited governor. and that tells us what we can or cannot say now they steal the word capitalism, too? >> free market is more friendly. capitalism came from karl marx. and capitalism means crony capitalism where big business get bail outs. crapt limp is what i call it that is when governments make laws and give businesses advantages. that is not how it should work. whether you call it free market or capitalism or enlightenment or self interest. it has listed them out of the system or government ever had. we should celebrate.

and in this program, we do. that's our show for tonight. thanks for watching. good night. ( phone ringing )

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