>> these guys suld be making money and they didn't take a bail out. everyone loves ford. >> thank you very much. who is the best with the group in business. david continues with forbes on fox. >> forget newt and the aiming at mitt romney. is a new way to save american airlines. one firm looking into bidding on the airline that is facing bankruptcy. a scenario to save a lot of jobs. do free market capitalist help or hurt workers in america. welcome to forbes on fox and we'll go in focus with steve forbes and denis neal and victoria and bill and rich and rick unger. rich, first you. are they good or bad for captivity in america? >> the capitalist are central

to companies that get in trouble. you think about ibm. they went from 400,000 to 200,000 when they almost went bankrupt 20 years ago . a private equity guy gave them tough medicine and now they have 400,000 jobs again. sometimes it is necessary to fix the companies to do that. >> rick, good or bad for america. >> the question in and of itself is raising an issue we haven't confronted before. americans like private free market enterprise and respect it and like the types of things that steve jobs does. he provides a product and service . what we are looking at now is a part of our society and capitalist society that is more destructive even if it is necessary. and i think that what all of this is raising is a question of whether americans do or

don't want the symbol of their country to be the type of destructive capitalism where people end up out of the work even though it is necessary so profits are made. this is the issue. >> victoria is bane and other companies destructive to america? there is even steve ratener who said bane capital is not and hasn't been a gordon geico-like fire breathing corporate raider that slashed and burned companies. they create more than destroy according to steve ratener. >> it is amazing. private equity is a huge field and sure, it has its hands full of gordon geicos employees they are trying to make a profit in risk capital and broke yen bankrupt companis and trying to salvage them. it doesn't always work.

how would you have saved those jobs otherwise? with a large government bailout funded by taxpayers. the nature of capitalism is that something has to fail. >> bill, that is the point, if you accept a notion of what newt is saying about being capital. you have to have a bail out or the companies will fail. >> one thing for free market capital it prerail and a republican primary you are preaching to the choir. it is a tough sale in the general election. it is hard for politicians to say that prosperity comes from the destruction of jobs and not the creation of jobs. but any economist will tell you. that politically it is a tough sale. >> but dennis, bane capitol was involve would in 77 investments during the time mitt romney was involved and it created billions of dollars for the investors. and it created a lot of jobs.

this according to steve ratener. >> entirely so. it is sad that we have to engage in this debate today. you know, capitalism and free market enterprise and businesses, they don't exist to create jobs. that's not their function. they exist to create products and services so they can create profits for their owners . along the way may need to hire more people. we have turned it in a politically correct debate, guyings. >> mr. capitalism steve forbes for last. he is a rick perry guy . rick perry joined in what mitt romney did vuture capitalism. you love capitalism. do you agree with rick perry. >> the real vulture is the federal government sucking the life blood out of the economy for regulations and taxation and trashing the dollar.

it is legitimate for mitt romney to answer questions and did this company take too many dividends and management fees and went broke? >> that only happened four times that. is a good track record. >> but he has to explain those things. heap has to have a full defense of it and make the case for it. but in cases weather where thea -- where they did wrong it doesn't work. >> let me point out when a firm comes in to buy a business that is on the last legs and can turn to no other buyer it is that firm's right to destroy it any way it wants. they make more money if the company succeed. >> the language that you have to destroy misses the point. it is creative destruction. you go in and slim down and turn the thing around and that way you create jobs by yes,

you don't say you are destructive. you have to save it by making it profitable again and that's how you create prosperity. >> victoria. >> he said something that is worth reiterating. we are taking a political correct view of capitalism and rick touched on that earlier. it is capitalism and everyone gets a job in the end of the day. capitalism is dirty and messy and it is a system we believe in and you can't a nice version of capitalism and greedy version . >> rick is dying to get in. >> go for it. >> i sure hope the candidates are listening to dennis. everyone of them are pitching how to create jobbings. one is a businessman and his experience is in creating jobs and dennis tells us that that is the last thing they are supposed to be doing. >> let the economy grow and

jobs will take care of itself. >> do we think that a company with 100,000 can do the job with 70,000. they should. >> that's why dennis is not running for public office. if he takes those statements and they would crucify them. top politicalcos are supposed to create a environment where jobs are created. having the start the new apples of tomorrow. >> rich, one thing that government and politicalco should not make business decisions. we learned that when the government fails miserably. isn't the extension of newt's argument that you have to have the government coming in and fiddling because private sector can't do it? >> i think you are right about the problems of crony capitalism. that's why the obama administration is more vulnerable on this issue than mitt romney. columist who tried to make the

gordon gecco comparison doesn't wash with that mitt romney personality. but the crony capitalism and chicago way, is pernicious is bad for the economy. >> rick, and more rich, may be right. but when voters hear creative destruction. they hear destruction and not creative. it is a tough sale. >> bottom line, you are daking over distressed companyings theaand they will go bankrupt if they don't get infusion of capitol. some of them fail even with the capitol. but 77.didn't. if we are doing a batting average here that is i successful record. >> and bill, i don't think you are giving. >> victoria go ahead. >> i don't think bill is giving the american people enough credit. we are a country of entrepreneurs and we understand creative destruction. you assume we are a country of

burrcrats who assume the glass is half empty. >> creative detruction is better than bailouts, folks. they are dancing the charleston not because of the primary and the state that created fancy foot work but because neil cavuto will be here and covering the primary. and then back with the resultogs fox business at 7:00 p.m. eastern. he's the only one counting the ballots and covering your bottom line. watch it and profit from it. >> coming up next, forcing the jobless to volunteer before they collect unemployment. it is it a new law in the works. is it heartless or helpless. we debate and you decide coming up next . ould take time, ould take time, but we were determined to see it through. today, while our work continues, i want to update you on the progress: bp has set aside 20 billion dollars to fund economic and environmental recovery.

we're paying for all spill- related clean-up costs. and we've established a 500 million dollar fund so independent scientists can study the gulf's wildlife and environment for ten years. thousands of environmental samples from across the gulf have been analyzed by independent labs under the direction of the us coast guard. i'm glad to report all beaches and waters are open for everyone to enjoy. and the economy is showing progress with many areas on the gulf coast having their best tourism seasons in years. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp. we're committed to the gulf for everyone who loves it, and everyone who calls it home.

morning because my back hurt so bad. the sleep number bed conforms to you. i wake up in the morning with no back pain. do you toss and turn? wake up with back pain? if so, call us now. you'll learn how the sleep number bed helps relieve back pain by allowing you to adjust the firmness and support to conform to your body for a more proper spinal alignment. just look at this research... 93% of participants experienced back-pain relief. plus it's a great value because it costs about the same an innerspring yet lasts twice as long. so if you want to sleep better or find relief for your bad back, call now. call the number on your screen for your free

information kit with dvd brochure and price list. call now and we'll include a free $50 savings card. call now for your free information and this free $50 savings card. call now! >> i am patti ann brown.

a federal judge upheld for gun owners to report multiple gun sales. it is requirement applying to purchasers of two or more semiautomatic rifles. it was proposed because of mistakes of fast and furious. >> 69 passengers are still missing after a cruise ship ran aground. costa concordia is seen here lying platon its side. it sent water pouring in. three people are dead and more than 4200 were on board including americans >> south carolina not just getting attention for a big primary.

but lawmakers passing a bill requiring the jobless to volunteer. rich, you believe the whole country should embrace it. >> it sounds like fdr civilian consolation corp. but one of the they get out of the habit and showing up where they have to be. and this is very good for the jobless, and jobless and i think it will provide a modest return on taxpayer dollars who are supporting the jobless. >> maybe this would be a model. >> i get it is a good idea in the 20s. government is so out of the control. they could keep unpaid workers for a very long time and making spending worse . the issue is, it is mandatory unpaid labor when they need to take the time to look for a job. and state official in south

carolina are talking about how to displace existing workers and could make the unemployment work. >> you don't have to take the unemployment chicks f. you want to take them you have to do the voluntary work. >> call it community service. you are working two days a week and other days you look for work. you get contacts and may get ideas and also have self respect and not just a hand out. you are earning that unemployment benefit while you look for a bigger job. >> not only good for the individual but the whole country. >> chain gang for the unemployed give workers and not employers ownership of unemployment funds if you haven't drawn it down it is yours. i can hear steve squirming next to me. but i remind him this proposal came from a ultraright wing

economist he likes. >> which is? >> howar. >> we are not talking chain gangings it is a choice. if you want an unemployment check you do the labor. >> it is a choice. >> i really like the idea. i will tell you why. there is a troubling phenom nan that is going on in the country. 42 percent of all unemployed are six months or more. longer you are unemployed harder it is to get a job. it is a great idea. it gives networking opportunitis and add to the resume and boost confidence and also allows you to hone the skills that so many employers are getting rusty on. if is a great idea. >> to show how unpredictable you are. i would have bet you are against it. you are in favor of it, right? >> i am feeling rich on this. i am feeling it. it is a good idea but a

condition to put on it. if it is a cynical effort in south carolina to come up with a way to drug test people getting unemployment and saying if you fail the drug test you can't do the volunteer work and if you can't do on volunteer work you can't get unemployment i have a problem. >> if it is a legitimate effort to parthe skills and do it to expand americorp i love it. speaking to the point of how you do get out of the old habit of going to work on time. it keeps you in the mode and makes it easier to be rehired. >> i have concerned about the networking on the road gang. that will not help them with their careers. and secondly, with the proposal. they would have lots of incentives to get back in the work force to a job that matches their skills and you would have a much fatter

return. >> this is government meddling right out of north korea. i am not saying they should do mandatory volunteer service . nonprofit status it is not fair for them when they need to search for a job. >> you keep the federal government out of it and let the state and local governments do it it may be fixing the road and fixing the records at city hall and where no one knows where it is. that is 16 hours a week and two days a week . other two or three or four days look for work. >> another epa power grab . this time it is slapping fines on companies that are not using a biofuel. that doesn't exist. i kid you not and cashing in gang, tells you why there is no kidding manner. >> and new regulation and

forcing airlines to start advertising the full ticket price. is this good news for consumers? it may not be. we'll take the flip side on that, coming up next. ♪ ♪ you and me and the big old tree ♪ ♪ side by side, e, two, three ♪ ♪ counthe birds in the big o tree ♪ ♪ la la la [ male announcer ] the inspiring story of how shipping giant can befriend a forest may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. ♪ ♪ you and me and the g old tree side by side ♪ butyou take away the faces on the trees... take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the charminoutfits.

take away the sprites, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're le with more electric trucks. more recycled shipping materials... and a growing number of lower emissions planes... which still makes for a pretty enchanted tale. ♪ la la la whoops, forgot one... [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. can you enjoy vegetables with sauce [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. and still reach your weight loss goals? you can with green giant frozen vegetables. over twenty delicious varieties ha sixty calories oless per serving and are now weight watchers-endorsed. try green giant frozen vegetables with sauce. i trust nature made because their products are scientifically formulated. their fish oil contains the right dose of critical omega3's. the amount recommended by several leading health organizations.

nature made,the number one pharmacist recommended fish oil brand. learn more at naturemade.com that is actually going to hurt travelers and before russian companies release

>> fliers are fed up with the fees and now the government is requiring the airline to show the full ticket price by adding fees like baggage. consumer groups say it is about time. hiding the fees would be cheaper for the flier than

what the government wants. that is a flip side. >> this is ridiculous. most people understand when they see advertised flight rate, it is not necessarily in some what the airlines are arguing. it is in different areas and what we will see is a new transparency fee. and you will have to pay for the new transformers. and that is worst than the pharmesutical. and they lost the airlines . they don't see them. bring your pet on board and cash in the frequent flier miles.

and jot just checking luggage. what about in the private sector. in terms of the fees. you will have more of foot notes and things like that than the actual price. you know if you bring a bag you will pay more . on the ticket they should break it out especially the fees for government and loot for bridges to no where and should have a disclaimer on there. this is not used to improve air traffic control but stolen by politicians in washington. that kind of disclosure, i would be all for. >> if it is more costly for the airlines they are going to pass it on to us. >> i am all for it. and people who need to fly are always going to fly no matter what the price is. this would be good for the airs and i will tell you y.

we have discretionary fliers who whose to take trains and cars rather than fly because of all of the hidden fees and wondering if they can check their baggage. this is one small thing out of the many that needs to be made easier for people to fly. this could bring consumers back. >> victoriament to get in quickly. but a real pilot. rich knows this from the air down. what do you think about the new rule, rich. >> it is completely unworkable. the thing about the airline industry. they sell the airline seat. when the flight takes off and no one is sitting in it, it is lost money. they are always going to pay different fees . thank you, gang. we have to move on.

they have stocks to buy now. [ female announcer ] this is not a prescription. this is mary... who has a million things to pick up each nth on top of her prescriptions. so she was thrilled that her walgreens pharmacist recommended a 3-month supply and would always be there to answer questions about her health. now mary gets 3 refills in one and for 3 months, she's done. more or less. ask your pharmacist about a 90 day supply today.

walgreens. there's a way to stay well.

you want to earn big this evening season? >> listen, the world's aging piping system need service provided by this company. >> but it is sewers, ooh. and cut and dissemble. housing needs to be less horrible. >> by the way we need sewer to survive. >> it is vulnerable to construction and don't see it coming up. >> and construction is going out and you are going to tech sector emc. >> i am it is undervalued and golden saches. it is expensive. >> is it over priced. >> no, it is going up.