>> welcome back, go to restart congress.org and chuck woolery is going to stick around in the after the show show. you'll have to visit two sites. go to foxnews.com for the after the show, show. >> see you tomorrow, everybody. >> brenda: occupiers and unions blasting the big conservative bash in washington d.c. and it comes as more conservative lawmakers are pushing right to work laws. unions hate them. but are they the right fix to get americans working again? hi, everyone, i'm brenda buttner, this is bulls and bears being let's get right to it. the bulls and bears, gary b smith, tobin smith. jonas max ferris, along with amel amelia and david. and indiana did, made its state right to work. and gary b you say that's the right move for workers, why?

>> absolutely, brenda, i'm surprised all 50 states haven't done this, because the facts bear out. let's look at just some of the united states when you compare right to work states to nonright to work states. they have higher gdp growth, higher wage growth. higher pay, higher productivity and higher growth. and more of the population covered by insurance. you have to scratch your head brenda, and say why isn't this the rule in every state in the country. >> brenda: david, you don't agree with that why? >> well, if you look at other facts, that being states that are right to work, like alabama, arkansas, florida, they all have unemployment rates that are way above the national average. in addition to that, a lot of those states that are right to work are also ones that are on the federal dole in returning less tax dollars back to the

feds than they received. and so, you know, to say that it's the be-- i don't think matches up with the fact. >> brenda: i've got to bring in toby here. >> come on, man, this is like-- come on, man. not only the national labor relations institute, a 10-year study this is not a 2-year study. this is a 10-year study. every one of the numbers have been in favor of right to work. what is right to work? simply the fact that you're not forced to pay union dues or be a union members to work in america. and i don't even-- i don't understand that concept when you look at the facts and how you would force people to pay union dues to have less growth and less wages. that's not-- >> i'll help you with that, if i may. >> brenda: okay, well, lets me get somebody to help you a little bit. >> sure. >> brenda: i want to bring in everybody first. jonas, you actually think that there is a cost to lowering cost at some point? >> yeah, there's a lot of factors what is helping the

economy or not. energy, and people move them, which means they're in the economy and bradley speaking, if you lower the cost of hiring somebody, the costs going down and put more people to work and it's a diminishing return to work. and they steal workers from other states at some point. but also say, there's some negatives, which is the wages and the states that are generally not right to work are richer, they've got higher per capita income, wealthier states and higher gdp and for example, more 401(k) benefits, and less likely to get pension benefits. the sacrifice is the work, to get fewer benefits and fewer pay, that can be a benefit in some cases, high unemployment like we do know, but is not always a great solution for everybody, particularly the workers. >> brenda: i want to go to our small business owner, does this help your employees? does it help you as an employer? >> look it, the bottom line,

they have the kind of jobs that is from small businesses, that's a fact and not made up. if you talk about the small businesses and the reality is, if you don't put me in a right to work state. you golden handcuff me. i can't fight you if i'm not in a right to work state. if i am, now i have leverage, i can employ, i can do cash over cash and a lot faster than if you handcuff me, where the union could basically shut me down because i can't afford it in my margins. so, as a small business, if you want us to do what we need to do, which is a lot of work in the next couple of years, then you have to make it a right to work. >> so, david, take that on. take on that? >> sure, i would say, listen, even union workers are not trying to shut down businesses and that's why there's collective bargaining and you negotiate with your workers. >> absolutely not, absolutely not. >> no one says you don't have a right to work, but there is, kind of this effort and initiative is to bust labor unions, we see it over and

over again. >> i cannot fight a union. >> and point out. and new hampshire has 5.1% unemployment and south carolina, a right to work state has 9.5%. >> and that's due to the manufacturing and the owner of the businesses. >> do the numbers and do the math. >> i do the math every day as a small business owner, all do i is do the math. >> you can't take one state out of context. >> you've got to take all-- >> excuse me, new hampshire and south carolina. >> and you need to take a look at the big business compared to low business, and the age of the business. the statistics are wrong based on that. >> they're not wrong. >> i'm saying over the next two years, it's going to be on the backs of small business. small business, cannot fight a union-- >> and david. >> with the unemployment rate at 5.1%, instead of becoming a right to work and ended up like south carolina. >> okay, so you're kind of looking at apples and oranges here, let me, hold on just a minute. let me just ask ameal, an as small business owner again, take on david's argument about

that issue. >> what it is, he's talking about, he's talking about the state over state and you're talking about in that state, where the unemployment is lower, and they have more seasoned, longevity businesses and higher in manufacturing, which is a bigger business, that's not what we're talking about, when we talk about growing america. if we're going to need jobs, we need them from, it's been proven, 60% of that comes from small business. a small business like myself, which means i am 150 million dollars or lower, or less than 500 employees, if a union decides that they're going to push back against me, about, say, you must offer the premium health care or you must give us, you know, two weeks off paid, i can't afford to do that in my margins, which-- >> and no choice, but to move out to state to the right to work or shut down. i can't-- >> and what you're saying, you're not competitive with providing the proper wages for people to make a livelihood. >> and nobody has the--

>> and americans. >> nobody competitive, nobody is. >> and children to have. >> well, let me bring in jonas here to get his take on this. >> help me, jonas. >> what would you say to amelia, perhaps. >> what i'm saying, i'm not denying the roll of small business, but these are dwindling. if you're in a union, 95% likely you're working for the government or company, more than a thousand employees. >> yes. >> trucking, and there's not a lot of small business with a high union labor force to start wso ng i don't it's that big of an area. i'm not denying, again as an employer, you want to keep wages where you want to keep in a free market and not offer the benefits of union to demand and negotiate and mauck everyone pay for it. >> again, i don't think that small business is where you-- >> here is where we do bump into it. it's changed over the last five years and now the infomercial business has grown and retail has grown and the quick in and outs have grown. we now get into that because now we fight hand-to-hand with union businesses where we never would have. >> what problems do you have-- >> hold on a minute, you're--

david, just, just a minute let me get gary b in here, i want to hear what you have to say. >> well, david hits on, you know, the point that the unions are this panacea, he said, well, unions come in and demand. >> i didn't say they were a panacea. >> hold on, you said they could come in and demand a fair wage. isn't, david, the market to determine the fair wage. not for the unions to come in. that's how monopoly operates and to the point and they demand what they say-- let me finish, sir, david. >> brenda: let him make his point. >> when they come in and say, this is the fair wage, we're mandating this, that makes it very, very difficult for the, a company like amelia has to negotiate because the union said, look, is this a fair wage or-- >> amen, amen, put me out of business i can only do my margins, do my margins. >> a minimum wage, just like union members negotiate with employers. >> then you force me to accepted the labor overseas, you force me to go overseas.

>> brenda: okay, i've got to let to bey have the last word here, he hasn't said that much. he's over in l.a., i don't know what's going on. >> there's not any oxygen left for crying out loud. when you're competing internationally, germany has a different type of labor union, but health care costs containment and you have to compete on everything. in the manufacturing business, particularly, when you're exporting, you have to have a right to work state. it's been proven. >> brenda: okay. all right. that high school to be the last word. thanks, guys. you think the health care holy war is over now that the white house is backing down? think again. neil's gang has other costly rules hidden in the health care law. that's at the bottom of the hour, but, first, stocks tank and greeks riot over new budget battle. now, the president is about to roll out his new budget plan. are we about to turn into greece?

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>> good morning, watch from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. we have new video to show you of protesters that are clashing with police outside of the conservative political action conference, and these demonstrators were rallying at a washington d.c. hotel last night. and inside, candidates rick santorum, mitt romney and newt gingrich were speaking to conservatives. no reports of injuries or arrest. we want to give awe live look at cpac, the straw polls, and results released later today. and a new announcement out of iran, ratcheting up tensions worldwide. president ahmadnejad marking the islamic revolution at a rally in tehran. revealing they will reveal quote, new nuclear developments and he did not the give more details on that. i'm jamie colby, keep is here on the fox news channel for results on cpac and your news all day.

greeks taking to the streets as more greek officials hit the road. all over more drastic budget cuts and it's taking down our stocks. now, our president is just two days away from rolling out the new budget plan. and some here say doesn't do enough cutting. and amelia, you say that's what our markets should really be worrying about? >> yeah, absolutely. i mean, and then i think that's the big hesitation right now to see actually what does happen on monday. i'm holding on faith that the administration says that we have to do something severe and make the cuts necessary in order to be in survival mode. that's what we are, in survival mode. we're not certain that that's what's going to happen and if we can't do the actual cutting back and more appropriate spending, right, so we're getting a return on our dollars to where we are spending it, then, business owners both big and small, need to make other decisions, so, that's your influence on the market.

for people who are just consumers, consumer are looking at the videos from overseas and saying, you know what? i get it. this is actually where we're going, if we don't do something right now. okay, david, you buy that? >> i'll get more into the details. i think the euro crisis and what's going on in greece is significant to the markets. we saw it with the european markets early before the hours closed, but secondly, with regard to the budget, there's nothing really new there. and you know, we don't have any signs of inflation, we've got-- we have economic growth, but, i will point out this, if you look at some of the stocks that lost today, it was honeywell, it was raytheon and anticipation of the budget cuts they're going to be seeing in defense, that they're the ones that are also losing in the market today. because of those cuts, that this administration is making to the budget. >> okay, actually, gary, i

think you mean friday, david. but, gary, he said-- david said there's nothing new here, in fact, is that the problem, that there's just more spending? >> he also said he didn't want to get into the details, brenda, but that's where the details are-- >> i said, leave it to the details. >> please, gary, come on. (laughter) >> i try to paint you in a bad light whenever i can, david, i'm sorry. you know that. listen the details are this though, in the last year, last fiscal year, the government spent 1.5 trillion dollars more than it takes in. now, the current administration just wants to kupt over ten years, 3 trillion. so, we're still, even if nothing changed, 12 trillion dollars in the hole. the problem is, obama wants to put that 12 trillion on the backs of these tax increases on the rich. we know that's not going to pay for it, even if behavior didn't change and the problem

is, as that bill comes up, that master card bill comes up, in a few years, interest spending alone will drown out everything. he doesn't want to change entitlements and we know we're not going to get any savings there. and for all david said, spending is still going to go up. the rate of this spending increase might top off a little, but that's still going up. across the board, you're right. nothing's changed and that's why we're going to become greece. >> jonas-- >> if i might clarify my statement, brenda, what i was saying was that the cuts that were agreed to in the budget deal towards the end of last year, to sequester defense spending or discretionary spending, that's all being sack f factored into the market and that's seeking. >> jonas, your take. >> this problem that keep resurfacing abroad is essentially a government debt problem and we've gained the confidence of the international investor.

and we've got to show it's not greece. and the market is very empowering of a government that does that when the chips are down, when the real estate market is at the top. but right now, we have to show smaller deficit and the 2012 economy is not like 2012 or 20-- and we don't need be in an artifically low taxes and spending, and we're not cutting tax enough. >> brenda: toby the last word here. >> it's not going to matter he gave a budget. and didn't get a vote on. the same thing is going to happen this time. >> brenda: thanks, guys. the government's taxpayer government funded food police, out. wal-mart in. is the retail giant about to save us billions. sweetie i think you need a little extra fiber in your diet.

carol. fiber makes me sad. oh common. and how can you talk to me about fiber while you are eating a candy bar? you enjoy that. i am.

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sam he doesn't need to send up

>> wal-mart saving consumers a bundle every year and now it's about to save taxpayers billions every year and getting rid of the government food police. the retail giant unveiling great for you foods labels, but help shoppers make healthy food decisions. and toby, you say this is more proof that the private sector can do it better and cheap her than washington can, huh? >> well, of course, they can. and it adds a lot of value, i mean, i remember when i used to get premium gas and you know what the octane was, right? and the market started saying what octane was in, and it became a standard and sugar in food and calories in food for the same reason, full disclosure, people with better choices and people can get better choices and the government doesn't need to make the choices for them.

>> i will love this and i asked for this. wal-mart has a communication and trust between their customers and they're going to now change their store schematics so you can see side by side and do talking points. instead of potato chips, apple chips are better. instead of the frosted flakes and here is kashi. they're trust with resources for the consumer, i'm all for this. >> brenda: why is this better than the food police, gary b? >> it's simple, wal-mart is giving what the customer wants. i'm not here to say that the customer always wants quote unquote the right thing, but they want what they want and wal-mart is in the business of satisfying that need. look, it's the same issue as mcdonald's. mcdonald's thought there was a market out there for sometimes offering healthy food particularly with the, you know, the kids, the kids meals kind of things, they don't think this being particularly make a lot of money off it, but thought, all right, we're

satisfying the customer need. they can do it, wal-mart can do it both without the government. >> brenda: david, is doesn't have to be an either/or. we have to have the government as toby said come out and say what the octane level is, what are calories are in your super mochaccino which you get. 1200 or whatever calories. >> you're absolutely right, brenda and in fact, this whole initiative, which i think is a great branding exercise guy wal-mart to take advantage of all of the attention that came from the bully pulpit of the white house and especially in particular, michelle obama, the first lady. and they took advantage of that and they're teaming up in partnership. she was at the announcement in doing this and they also consulted with government officials on just the standards that they now have arrived at. so, it doesn't have to be an either/or and government and business can work hand in hand to make this a healthy america. >> okay. jonas, tell us, weigh in on

this. >> and the food police are my favorite kind of cops, i don't trust a lot of smaller-- >> well, look at you. >> and i like-- you don't have to worry about it. >> and it's a different story, it's a huge brand of protection, and small restaurants are going to put lost they will think, and they don't care, it's like rats in the kitchen. and a role for the government in food, and department of the things, like there was a government label initiative, is why we know the calories in food and the standard thing so you can compare. we wouldn't be able to compare necessarily what wal-mart says is good for you, target is good for you, or kroger without a standard rule at that they have to follow so the consumers will know. that's the role of government. does that mean that the government says how much fat you should eat or tell us-- >> you've got five seconds, toby, five. >> jonas, you need to have the cal race and you need to have the sugar and don't need to be told what you need to eat. you need to make the comparison yourself.

>> brenda: oh, he needs calories. thanks, guys, sorry, thanks to amelia and to david for joining us. >> a pleasure to be with you. >> thank you. >> brenda: the white house compromising on the health care law again. but, could this one just compromise the entire health insurance industry? "why did i roll over my i.r.a. to scottrade?" "for starters, it didn't cost me anything." "and i got a one-hundred dollar cash bonus for rolling over by april 16th." "i like bonuses." "plus at scottrade, there are thousands of commission-free investments." "and if i need help, i can find it online, by phone or at one of over five-hundred scottrade locations." "it's why more investors with i.r.a.s are saying.." "i'm with scottrade." ♪ [music]

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