>> bear formula. >> or bear beer, something like that. >> thank you for joining us. >> we'll see you tomorrow, hour early. >> just when we're seeing the job market starting to fight back as stimulus spending dries up, now there are new calls in washington to ramp up the spending. but is this improvemeing saying we don't need it. i'm brenda buttner, bulls and bear. >> gary b smith, tobin smith. jonas max ferris along with bob froehlich and mike norman. bob, this week alone. announcing two million dollars in new spending plans, with the economy starting to add jobs again, as stimulus dries up. is more spending the answer? >> no, absolutely not. i mean, i think the reason why we're finally seeing some positive job growth is we don't have the stimulus, so, the government needs to sort of get out of the way and let

corporations do what they do best. and that's make money and create jobs and plus, brenda, they don't even have the money for another stimulus. look at in five years, our debt has gone from 5 trillion to 10 trillion and how can you be talking about a stimulus and think about short-term. so far this year, since the budget season started, we have spent 1.5 trillion, and took in 869 billion. oh, my gosh, we're spending twice the amount that we're taking in, how can they even be thinking about talking about more stimulus and we don't need it. i think it'd be a huge mistake and do nothing, but help the job market. >> gary b. what do you think? >> brenda, i just go back to the basic facts and the real question, has the original stimulus worked? if i thought it worked and the facts bore that out. fine, do more stimulus. the unemployment is north of 8% and higher than when we first started the stimulus. the obama administration said

by now, it would be 6%. if you factor in the people that came out of the work place and aren't working for jobs, the real unemployment rate is close to 15%. and even if you think i'm being biased, charitybly, even the economists are split on the issue of its stimulus was effective and you look at that and the point that dr. bob brought out, that all of this, even at best, it was a wash. costs additional 5 trillion and running up the deficit, i don't see how you can argue for more stimulus. >> well, like. the money that the president would like to direct into the economy is directed at the jobs market. things like jobs training, and more for manufacturing, and unemployment is still stubbornly above 8%, doesn't that prove we do need some help. >> look at the trend and you know, gary b talks about the facts, what facts? >> i think this really is his opinion. if you look at since the stimulus in 2009, we've gained

something like 4 million jobs, so, you keep saying the facts don't, you know, support the stimulus, but in fact, it's the exact opposite and when it comes to the deficit, excuse me sh me, while i yawn here. can you find something else to get worried about? i mean, my god, you've been complaining about this for three years and the economy has been steadily improving, the tactful stock market is up 100% from its lows. look, the unemployment rate is at 8.3%, and it was above 10%, look at the trend. the trend is that it's coming down, we still got to bring it down further, we're only growing at what, 2% or something like that, it's not enough to really create a jobs boom. and that's why we need more stimulus and if we had it, we would see job growth really take off and be sustained for a long period of time. and that's what we need. >> those are fighting words and toby's got a mean right hook, all the way from salt lake. go ahead and take him on,

toby. >> well, again, let's unleash the economy, before we're actually adding another sugar high. a quote, unquote. stimulus that's only providing a short-term spurt. let's unleash this and we have the opportunity and we have the opportunity to have the largest energy producing country in the world. if we would unleash it. we have the ability in our technology business, et cetera, to unleash them. why would we at this point be putting money as to what the president wants and the brooking institute wants. more quote unquote green jobs, and a mismatch. the idea somehow they'll keep spending and get something right and gary is right. we can't afford it, why should we, we're doing fine with the-- >> let me ask you something, let's take the tact of europe, hey, they are hcutting the deficit.

that's working great. and why don't we reduce the deficit and you so how many jobs that creates. >> okay. >> and that doesn't work. >> brenda: okay, hold on, hold on, i've got to bring jonas in, don't worry, gary b and bob, you're waiting for this. >> and between the two points, there's a good point about them cutting too early the stimulus in most of europe. but america is on a positive trend, kind of in transitional between needing signals and not needing it. at this point you can make the point that you're wasting money or deficits in artificial stimulus. i don't think that was the case two or three years ago, and i'm not saying ours was the most brilliant, but we're not in a recession and the trend is your friend and you have to acknowledge a good portion of our stimulus is actually in the form of tax cuts and that's why a lot of the gaps come from, if bob is not for stimulus, but not for extending payroll tax cuts. and right now, probably don't need much longer and causing

deficit spending. >> good point, bob, take it on. >> look it, at the end he of the day, here is what i think is the most important. who do you think does a better job, government or business, i think over time. business have proven they'll do a better job. >> and-- >> the pay rows-- >> come on, this is ridiculous. >> hold on, mike, let him take it it $. >> at the end of the day look it. >>-- it can't support his argument. >> brenda: mike, mike, be quiet. >> if you let me finish my sentence, i can. how about this, mike, we're still 5 million jobs behind. 5 million jobs behind from the low of the recession, and now let me add, just because of the employment growth, now we need another 5 million, and so right now we're 10 million jobs behind and you want to pop the champagne bottle, thinking we've beat this thing on employment side. we haven't. you have to let business alone and let them create the jobs, government interference doesn't work, never will. >> are you talking about the-- are you talking about those businesses that are sitting on

record amounts of profits that are cutting people, and laying people off? are you talking about those businesses, possible? >> they have got great jobs and-- >> the highest tax rates in the world. highest tax rates in the world and those are the ones i'm talking about and guess what, they've still found out a way how to make money and still drive the economy and even though we have the highest corporate tax rate in the world, they're winning. >> and they're wearing people, like, that's what we're finding out. >> because the demand came from the stimulus, thank you very much. >> gary b. respond. >> if mike thinks that 15% unemployment rate is a great thing, yes, to mike's point we should have a lot of stimulus all the time going back to dr. bob's point, and all of the money for government and-- >> mike, please, please, let him finish. >> we should give all of our money to government and let

them spend because in mike's world, the government is the one creating jobs and getting us out of any hole that we might have, and so according to that logic, government should spend all of our money all the time, we would never have a recession, we'd never have depression, never have-- >> he's going to put words in my mouth. >> mike, don't say anything, i will always give you a response to respond. you have 20 seconds, go ahead. >> okay, then, i never said that we should have stimulus all the time. okay? but when we're running with enormous amounts of unused capacity and labor, yes, it's economics 101, you have stimulus to put people back to work so that the economy grows, produces output, so don't tell me that i'm saying we want stimulus all the time. i never said that and i don't see that. >> brenda: okay. we have a last, last word from jonas, please. >> and we've never had a depression since the government started the concept of deficit spending in a recession. >> brenda: okay, that's got to be the last word, thanks. how can can a new car that runs on gas stop your pain at

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>> good morning, everyone, live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby. a battle for the republican nomination is underway right now in kansas. the sun flower state is holding caucuses and rick santorum is expressing confidence and a win. and mitt romney and newt gingrich opted to skip last minute visits and leaving santorum to woo them, 40 delegates up for jabs. and u.s. is calling on the syrian regime to stop killing so many children. and kofi annan meeting with them today. and pushing for end to go the year long uprising and crackdown, one day after

government forces reportedly killed 68 people. i'm jamie kecolby 30 minutes away, back to more bulls and bears. >> gm, the latest american car maker shifting gears to natural gas. it's launching heavy duty trucks, powered by the cheaper fuel that costs about one third less than conventional gasoline. toby, you say going natural is the way to go. >> going natural gas. it's a fact. i have a jeep cherokee. 4% for gasoline on a basis and better mileage. if you were to extrapolate this across the united states, to personal cars, it would be a big, big improvement and all of that natural gas, brenda, comes from the united states. if you're buying gasoline on the east coast of the united states. that's more than not coming from nigeria and other places and finally, if we could get our large 18-wheelers on this, we could reduce, 5, 6 million

barrels a day, it's absolutely the one policy that every american should be following. >> well, it's cheap now, gary b. i guess the issue about this, is it having a market support it, not the government through subsidies, huh? >> well, exactly. brenda, i'm all for everything toby said, as long as the government doesn't come in and try to manipulate it. you know, at the start of the gasoline powered automotive industry, there was no government involvement. people went to get gas stations and went to the local drug store or hardware store and picked it up. it was only when autos became popular that the oil company said, hey, you know what? there's a market here to open up gas stations and i'm hoping the same way with natural gas and the market will work or won't work and gm will have made a bad bet. i'm all for gm doing this, it's great. good tore them and let's not do it without the government getting involved and mucking things up. >> there are some issues here, where do you find a gas station, it's going to take some time for this market to

really get traction. >> i don't think it's taking them out of the way in gas station. and i will say it's a third less, with natural gas at like all time lows, it's going to take one hurricane before it's going to cost five times as much to fill up the natural gas cars, and look-- the old days. >> natural gas is a great american resource and doesn't make sense to have it in cars, it could make sense in possibly in buses and makes a lot of sense to pipe it somewhere like a generator, but to put it in your car, it doesn't compare well to gasoline and honda can't pull this off. making a natural gas car for years and pulled off hybrids. and they're not going to pull off. something that the japanese have not pulled off yet. it's not going to happen. >> mike, mike, what do you think about this, you're one of the gang here, huh? >> i'm for it. you guys have to say, you guys are unbelievable. he doesn't want the subsidies, and they look at the oil industry, for crying out loud.

wake up, what are you talking about, the largest industry on earth is subsidized by the government, okay? let's not subsidize a new fuel or a fuel that we have, a huge abundance of which can be a very positive thing for our industry because it's government. >> bob, i'm going to let you take this on. we don't have much time. you go ahead and answer that one. look, here is the deal. i agree with what toby is saying and with what gary is saying, we don't need the-- we really don't need the government's involvement. let the free markets bear and i love the natural gas idea because i just compare it between the electric car and the national gas car, i would never say an i.d. was stupid, but the electric car might have been the stupidest idea in my life. we have the worst electric infrastructure grid maybe in the world and we want to move 100 million people to plug in their car every night. as if california and new york don't have enough problems with brown outs and blackouts and everything else, when i look at this, i try to be

objective and say, the electric car, pretty stupid idea. natural gas car, that's awesome idea as long as the government stays out of the way. but this'll all be one with-- >> it doesn't make it, if they subsidize oil. >> got to go, guys, all right. are these prices at the bupump, starting to take it out of the market as it improves? neil's gang takes it on. another bank says free checking accounts out. new monthly fees in. some here say don't blame your bank's president. blame this president. we report, you decide. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations,

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>> coming up the fury over checking fees who is to blame?

make not the banks.

. . >> neil: the days of free checking accounts may be numbered. wells fargo expanding the checking account fees to six more states and one reason for the fee, gary b. you say good for them, huh? >> exactly. brenda. a case of government coming in and mucking things up and the banks are responding. look, as a customer, i hate it. free checking is not a birth right, that we have. and what is the effect here is, the banks go out and try it make more money. look, if i was a wells fargo customer i would look for another bank if it made me that mad or put the money under a mattress, this is capitalism at work. good for them. maybe good for the customers, but maybe it creates more competition. >> bob, do you blame the banks for this? >> no, not at all. look, gary is right.

the blanks gave free checking and making money in other places where they can't now. they're not allowed to use anything in proprietary trading and government took that away from them and security ization of loans and can't charge rates for credit cards and what's left they don't make a lot of money and now they're going to charge for checking, this is a result of the regulation and look it, when banks were making money, big banks, they gave checking away and made everyone give checking away. now the new reality, this is just like the airlines, you're going to pay for every little service you get from the banks, you can blame that on regulation, mike, do you mind the fees? >> the fee hes are disgusting, we bailed out the banks and they're hitting us up with fees and should be closed down, ridiculous, the fees are disgusting and i do not like them, i do not like them. >> you've made that clear, jonas, do they make sense for you. >> first of all, you can't blame airline fee on the

government. and second of all, the prop trading in the hedge fund decisions and you said before, they cannot charge you a lot of money when you overdraft. without being able to do that, a $200 account doesn't make you, they have to charge you or lose money in the account because they cannot charge you high atm fees or overdraft fees, who lost the guy with the low balance who does not overdraft. and the guy who won, the goe who overdraft and that guy won and snowmobile, only paying $7. >> brenda: toby, your take, who is winning and losing? >> obviously, free checking was a code word for freedom of overregulation, because that's dodd frank has come in and be all the things the guys have said. you better get used to it. there may be some competition over the internet, a more efficient player and that would be good old capitalism coming in and six banks that have 80% of deposits in the

united states. >> all right. good point there. thanks, guys. and well, did you hear who is praising fox business network's election primary coverage? >> and it's a talented group here. >> we'll give you some added value here, only on fox business, did you learn that sarah palin, in alaska voted for newt gingrich. >> everything is so magic. >> going tore romney or santorum, and deciding the last minutes. >> neil: we're going to look at it from all avenues with the former new york stock exchange chairman dick grasso. >> america is not where it needs to be and we need to restore that. >> neil: the best of the political bunch as well. sarah palin, who would you vote for? >> i knew you were going to ask me that. >> and continue to do what they're doing. >> see what the buzz is about when neil is back at it, for fox news channel's your world at 4 p.m. eastern and then have the election results and

immediate market reaction on the fox business network. and starting right before 8 p.m. eastern. watch it, and profit from it. let's hear first, forget about the market, doubling since hitting its low three years ago and how about tripling it into the name one of these guys says is so good, he's betting his own money on it. you can't miss this. americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪

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>> predictions, bob, you're up. >> i think carnival cruise line is up three-fold in the next 24 months and i think the market completely overreacted to the disasters they had. look it, they own 100 different ships. 11 cruise lines and awesome stock. >> brenda: gary b, bill or bear. >> let's say i love dr. bob, leave it at that. >> brenda: gary b. what else do you love with your prediction.

>> i love the stock market, three year anniversary of the bull market and a little pullback the next few weeks, i think by the end of the year he we tack on another 15%. >> mike, bull or bear on that? >> a little bearish, that would put the dow up 20% for the year. >> all right. >> yeah. >> so, anyway. >> jonas, your prediction, please? >> the bernie madoff, tens of millions of counterfeit bottles and-- >> toby bill or bear on that. >> i love wine, i can't stand consolation as a stock. >> brenda: and your prediction. >> and talking with natural gas, a play on-- >> bob, bull or bear. >> bear, you know, take years for that stock to take off. >> brenda: tobin, your prediction. >> doritos, yum brands making the tacos at taco bell with the doritos, going to be a killer. >> brenda: jonas bull or bear. >> 25%. >> i think a dorito bas