private jobs up and government jobs down. it is a trend we are seeing for months now. check it out yourself. do we need the government to slash for main stream to hire. welcome to forbes on fox. we'll go with teave and rich and elizabeth and bill and rick and dennis. rich, as government jobs go down do private jobs increase? >> yes, there is a correlation and i will tell you why. people who run companies from large to small, they are really uncertain about the future. they are uncertain about the future because of political uncertainties regulatory uncertainties and tax uncertainties. when government cuts jobs, it

sends a signal that maybe the government will not eat the whole economy. >> it is good for private jobs. >> i wish it were that easy . the truth is, nothing that reveals in correlation. look remember what the government jobs are all too often. talking about teachers and firefighters and policemen. and this does nothing to boost private employment and however, what you are seeing happen here is a narrative where people who don't want to give the administration credit for a booming economy coming, they will use things like this. if we told you, if you cut jobs. it is not yob cut in government but administration policies that are putting us on the right track. >> steve, to rich's point. they are worried about government getting too big and government getting smaller, it is a good thing and it may put them in the mood to hire more. >> there is a lot of bloat.

but the federal government hasn't gone on a debt. and as for a booming economy. it is like saying a baseball team is on a roll when it is batting 250. and no, this economy is subparand we government absorbs resource. rich is right. it means less resources for the private sector. >> bill, fewer government yobs is that good for the private sector. >> i have sad news for rich and steve. when you fire thousands of fire firefighters and highway workers, you don't get a burst of economic activity. they stop buying thingings . if we want to shnk government do it two percent for 20 years. not all tomorrow. >> and emac. sometimes you have to rip the band aid off. >> i love rick's analogy

discussing that the president can't take credit for the commempt roosters taking credit for the sun coming up. and the federal government. >> you critize him for going down. >> we are watch dogs for all presidents. either side of the aisle. but the issue is 145,000 workers were added to the government. you could spend it on tax breaks for the private sector to create jobs. >> federal government is not shrinking, it is the local anditate governments that are doing the cutting back. >> you know what, there is no direct correlation between the two jobbings. they come fr different buckets of money. we should celebrate when the jobs are going down. it shows you government will not have to increase taxes much. and number two, it shows you that government workers are not going to interfere with

business. and number three. unions may not get more powerful and they will not get more dues and reelect and employ government workers. >> for the moment, just for the moment, forget about them. i grew nup washington saw a lot of government workers and i went through places like the department of agriculture and they were moving papers from here to there. you really think we need all of those folks. >> it is a speechless argument. >> it is a real, real. >> no body. no body is going to argue against making government more efficient. i can't tell you which are needed and which aren't. to the extent if you can cut them out and be more useful. cut them. but don't say it is because that person lost his job that. is not true. >> we have a bloated

government. i think everybody agrees to that. >> we get politically correct. if we are cutting jobs. >> a local politician will not cut firefighters or teachers. he will cut paper shufflers there. >> and as we mention, federal government is a lot of teachers and firefighters that are geth cut before the paper pushers. >> i don't want that to happen to good teachers and fire men and cops. how do you get a more efficient. they are outsours and they are not watching the amount of money. that is a hell of a lot of money. >> steve? >> david, there is a lot of thing that is the government is doing that it should not be doing. could cut it in half and no

one would notice. where do they get the money. >> good point. bill. how do you argue with that? >> morally steve may be right. you can't create a burst of economic output by firing people. i say we grad yutly dismantle the department of and education. we don't need them. >> hold on a second. cajuns are e folks who think that big government might be a good thing because they spend money. rich, what about that argument? >> you know, i don't know about that argument. i didn't hear that. but the rule of psychology playing here. private economy is three-quarters of the american economy and that's where you get the most movement toward jobs . psychology people who run the private economy, if government

encroaches on their business. they go in a deep freeze. if you start laying people off which is the same thing the private economy had to in the last few years. you elevate animal spirits and get hiring. >> how do we make sure people fired in government are ones pushing paper and not creating business or substantive for the department. >> when the agriculture department has higher budget than foreign incomes. it is true. depending on the cycle. it is a matter of time when you have more burrcrats in the agdepartment than doing farming. farming education and commerce department and labor department can all be done away with and in terms of medicaid, outsource to thitate and local level where things need to get done.

>> thank you all. >> everybody's wondering stop wondering. apple ceo is talking about the buzz about the new ipad. he's talking about the buzz of neil cavuto coverage. he's back at it with votes in mississippi and alabama. neil is giving you live ruments. here and there and watch it and profit from it. >> coming up right here. she's bashed for collecting food stamps after winning a million dollar lottery. why is someone calling her a hero or herorine. the flip side is next . so who ordered the cereal that can help lower olesterol

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live from america's news headquarters. 40 delegates up for grabs in

kansas today as the state holds the caucaus. santorum and ron paul are campaigning. but mitt romney and gingrich are opting out of the last minute visits to kansas. stay tuned for all of your political coverage. united nations is calling on the syrian regime to stop the bloody crack down. kofi annan is meeting with the president of syria today. they are pushing for a solution. the critical meeting coming one day after government forces killed 68 people and plan to meet with the syrian opposition before leaving tomorrow. i am jamie colby. see you in america's news headquarters and now back to forbes on fox. >> no more food stamps for the lottery winner.

she was still on the dole . taking a lot of heat. but dennis said she is a hero of sorts. >> she deserves a prize for shining the spotlight of the how the foot stamp program is out of control. we are spenting 40 thousand in the bush era. it more than doubled in the three year first year that obama took office it is rising 40 percent. fraud waste and abuse has gone up. it is too easy to get on them and stay on them too long. >> isn't this an example of big government out of control? >> no, i disagree and i think that amanda doesn't deserve a prize. she won the lottery. dennis, you have a heart and when it comes to food stamp

half of children and half of those in single parent households. we can improve the program. goggle knows what i had for breakfast. and seen the transactions we can get out of fraud. but not the entire program. >> the fact is, 50 billion in waste and fraud in medicare and welfare and bigger the government gets, the bigger the fraud gets. isn't the problem with the bigness? >> look at maryland, david. six dollars of every 100 that they spend is fraud. maryland has cut by 48 percent the amount of investigations into fraud and so i think dennis is right here . the pie is getting bigger and the states are looking into it and investigations are shrinking . >> bigger the government, the

bigger the fraud. >> yes, that. it is the wrong time to shine eye light on food stamp. we went through the biggest economic crisis since the great depression. you will find fraud, but you will see it in ethanoyl and other areas of government. it is not the time to focus on the least among us. >> steve, it is time it hear from the chief, what do you think? >> even though rich makes a nice point of junk in the budget. get rid of that, too. food stamps has gone beyond those who need a helping hand because of tough times. and government is discouraging states from reducing food stamp rolls. more people get on them more

power they have. more government bloat. >> everybody is for efficiency. and they like sufficiency. and using the woman as a poster child of what is wrong with food stamps as a reason to shut down using bernie madoff. member better bring oxygen for steve regular heard me say that. this is unreasonable. we can be more careful in the state level. but complaining about it existing and using this woman as an opportunity -- using this as an opportunity to top taking care of military families. and no one is saying that, rick. and hold on steve. >> so typical of big government advocate. you point out serious flaws they say you are against the poor and you want to stomp on the military and things like that. and by the way, military raise

their pay as they deserve. they deserve it more than the bloated burrcrat. >> we need to look at what newt gingrich did in the mid90 reform welfare. that's what they did. they got people receiving welfare in the work force. >> victoria. the economy was not as bad as if it was now. they managed to work together. bill clinton with the republicans in congress. why can't we do that again? >> yeah,y know. i wish we could do that again. of course i wish we could. incentives matter and the fod stamps are a negative incentive for families to not go out and provide. i am with rich. it is not the time to take on this particular program. listen to the dialogue out of the washington. >> we are in an election year.

and you forget about these things happening and the clean up. >> nixon and chine a. only a liberal democrat is going to propose cutting food stamp spending. otherwise they say you will starve the poor. 95 percent of the people at poverty level say they are not hungry and we are doing a fine job. we can look for ways to cut. >> last and first word for dennis. got bad credit. more employers are checking in to the money background of job applicants. first right here, the president's new housing rescue is leaving homeowners out. if he wants to fix it once and for all. pay or share. fair share.

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>> you want to fix housing, stop helping some homeowners and help all homeowners and the latest name on the billionaire's list

>> the white house out with another plan to fix house this helps some struggling homeowners fix the mortgages. all homeowners get the same deal. >> it sowns ridiculous . the balance sheet is blown to smither reins. but maybe i am having my own network moment. i am tired of the bail outs. i talk to bank of america and city group. they are moving the goal post. if you share with one share

with all. we all deserve a break. i know rates are low and i get all of the money out of the front door. it is unfair to the prudent people. >> give to some give it everybody? >> i wish that were so. you are just making one wrong and two wrongs and hope is a right. we are heavily incenting bankings to refinance. i refinanced twice in the last six months and i don't understand why the government is pushing this farther and these incentives just create bad outcomes. banks engaged in riskier loans after the bail outs. regulators came in and said you need to float money around the market to clean it up. >> bill, do we just help a small sliver of those in trouble or help everybody.

>> offer them all the same deal. mortgage written down to 90 percent of your home's value but yoo that and plus half of any gain. you have a $250 gage the mortgage down to $180 and move out for a maul profit or stick around for 10ears. >> by the way, i have run out of the space. mike, do we help a small group or everybody. >> if you help small group and that doesn't work. you help everybody. >> i am for helping no body, david. home prices were overvalued by 20 percent . things have only gotten worse. look, you can boost up prices but that doesn't mean it is what the house was worth. you need rising incomes. >> steve, the fact is, 90 percent of the mortgage holders are on time and responsible people and tired

of subsidizing those who aren't. >> this doesn't have to be a subsidy. you have a job and making payments and been making payments and equity in the house 25 percent. you should be able to refinance and fan yefreddie should have done that three years ago and eventually house prices will go up and if you are making payments, you should be able to refinance instead of stuck with six percent mortgages. >> and the government took it over, right. >> we own them . what bothers me, yeah, people were hurt in the foreclosure robo signing. but money has been flying out of the door at fanny and the bank. we have run out of the time. coming up. informers tell you how to get your future on a future billionaire cover.

>> forbes 20th billionaire's

edition. find out which billionaire to help you get on the list. bill gates who else? >> i am loving microsoft. they have a cash cow only second to apple it is cheap and buy microsoft. >> bill, you like it. >> today your browser and all software is free. bad for bill gates. >> you like charles swab. >> when ben bernanke stops printing money prices will go up. >> go for charlie, the ceo of eco star. and 14 times the earning . >> emac company take over and tock rises a. no dennis is right. and concern about the operating expenses. >> and here is the magazine. go out and buy it that's it for forbes on fox. keep it right here for