tonight? >> when it comes to our efforts on behalf of women and girls, i'm proud of the accomplishments we can point to. >> new polling shows president obama winning the women's vote big time. should mitt romney be worried about the gender gap? we'll take a look at that situation. >> i think that you are an evil person. >> right, i'm evil. >> you are a murdering dog. >> i'm a terrible dog. i'm a feign. >> you are a mass murdering dog. >> a mass murdering dog. >> juan: notorious serial killer charles manson up for parole later this month. why even bother? geraldo rivera has the details. >> all you need to play this at home is a plate of shrimp, four $1 bills. oh, my god. bill o'reilly? >> bill: why are you bothering me, stewart? >> juan: o'reilly vs. stewart the $4 shrimp edition. trust me, you don't want to miss this. >> bill: any that allows $4 shrimp not worth saving.

[ laughter ] >> juan: caution, you're about to enter the no spin zone. the factor begins right now. captions by closed captioning services >> juan: hi, i'm juan williams in for built o'reilly tonight. thanks for watching us on this good friday and passover. let's get right to our top story. president obama is stepping up his attacks on mitt romney. his campaign released a new web video saying the g.o.p. frontrunner is out of touch with reality. we'll show it to you in just a minute. but, first, a new gallup poll says the president is doing well with independent women voters in the 12 key swing states. 51% of independents female voters in those states say they would vote for obama. only 37% for mitt romney. that's a 14-point gap. that's huge. in december, the same poll showed romney leading obama n

independent women voters. 48 to 43. the president continues to make his case as a warrior for women. earlier today this is what he said. >> when people say we should get rid of planned parenthood. they're not just talking about restricting a woman's ability to make her own health decisions, they are talking about denying as a practical matter the preventative care, like mammograms that millions of women rely on. >> juan: as the poll indicate that kind of messages seems to be resonating with women. particularly young, independent women. conservatives like to point out that since the president took office, the unemployment rate for women has increased from 7% to 8.1%, begging the question: are women really prospering under obama's leadership? joining us now from los angeles to analyze, radio talk show host tammy bruce and with us in studio, former president of the women's media center jehmu greene, both are fox news contributors.

jehmu greene let me say what strikes me about this is if you look at it right now, president obama has a hugely, 31 percentage points among women under 50. young women clearly they're like running towards obama at the moment. and largely over this contraception issue. but jehmu, who is denying access to contraception to anybody? isn't this a phony? isn't this a -- i mean, you couldn't make anything up better than the democrats have done to try to fool women. >> they are running towards obama in the same way they are fleeing the g.o.p. the war on women, i will admit that is a message that democrats have created and have been pushing. i have said it many times. but it is an oversimplyification which is one of the things obama said. >> juan: i'm glad you are telling the truth. this is a no spin zone. this is a made up phony war on women. >> the message. but that message is made up by

the 1100 bills in 2011 across the nation state by state by state, 1100 bills that went after women's reproductive rights by the sexism that we have seen that rush limbaugh got involved in. by the health care act opponents who don't understand that women really appreciate the fact that they're no longer going to be able to be charged 1250% more just because they had a c section or they've been the victim of domestic violence. being a woman shouldn't be a preexisting condition. so, as this health care care debate has gotten more into the details, that's another reason why they're fleeing the g.o.p. >> juan: tammy bruce, let me ask you about. this i do think women have access to contraception. here's the argument. the argument would be blunt amendment in the senate. republicans saying anybody, not just the catholic church, has the right to remove contraception from their health care coverage. you have a governor in virginia, bob o'donnell who is talking about women having very intrusive procedures in order to determine whether or

not they should have an abortion. is that a good reason for women to have some fears about republicans this time of year? >> here's what the women should have a fear about which is government involvement in our lives. the conservative ideal is what's going to matter and does matter to women, which is that we have enough financial independence and freedom to make these choices for ourselves. right now the argument is and all the problems are these strangers, these bureaucrats and yeah obama is a stranger trying to make these decisions for us. what romney is going to need to do is make it clear you have got two choices. are rim going to be treated like they are wards of the state and government make decisions for them, $10 a month for contraception. give me a break. are women going to be sold for that amount of money or the conservative message which is that women are smart, they can be independent. they should be independent, and that we need financial independence brought with a good economy and having a job that is the conservative ideal. and also this as you know the

secret weapon that romney has is ann romney. the obamas are like the in-laws who when they want something from you they are nice to you. once they get it, they return to treating you horribly and spending all your money. >> juan: tammy, a minute august had the attitude, tell me if i am wrong, they are trying to convince women message women should be preoccupied with their reproductive rights and uterus but not with the bottom line for their families. aren't you talking down to women? you are talking down to women. >> no. both jehmu and i know that for both the left and the right to distract women with reproductive rights has been going on for decades. we now are passed that. this is the 21st century. this is a message that romney is going to have to move through with the republicans that women are to be respected. that we want freedom and independence and i think that's the message. >> juan: it might be too late. jehmu is it too late? i think tammy is on to something. there is an important economic message. if the women believe that

romney and the republics want to push him back in the dark ages, who is going to listen to the economic message? >> well, you cannot say that it's democrats who have been using reproductive messages as a distraction, especially when these bills across the country have been introduced by republicans. democrats cannot win without the women vote in the same way that republicans. >> juan: nobody can. whole election comes down to independent women. i always say it's an independent woman who lives in the suburbs of columbus, ohio. on that note, let me just show you an ad that the obama team is running on the web responding to some of the charges made by mitt romney as he tries to win women back. ♪ >> he went around the world and apologized for america. >> he we will not apologize for our way of life. >> he has also failed to communicate that military options are on the table. >> i will not have to take to use force when it is necessary to defend the united states and its interest. >> in his state of the union

address he didn't even mention the debt or the deficit. >> when it comes to the deficit, we have already agreed to 2 trmedz. >> deficit. >> deficit. debt. >> that's how we will reduce our deficit. >> juan: now, jehmu, effective? quickly. >> it is effective. it's not just reproductive issues. at the end of the day, if you have been in a relationship, any man knows women have a unique ability, a sixth sense to see through b.s. what that message that romney puts out there. >> yeah, we do. >> different issues it's a trust issue as well. >> juan: is that ad effective? >> what obama says and what he does are two different things. we do three see the b.s. part of the fight in november. you can ask hillary clinton about that. >> wow, ladies. getting rough. two wonderful women but ladies, thank you. next on the run down, a woman who used be to a man.

will be allowed to compete in the miss universe contest. is this a good thing? then, serial killer charles manson up for parole this month. geraldo has the latest. it's all upcoming. [ male announcer ] fighting pepperoni heartburn and pepperoni breath? fight both fast with new tums freshers! concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. new tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ [ male announcer ] fast relief, fresh breath, all in a pocket sized pack.

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pageant reversing its policy and allowing a transgender woman to compete in its contest next month. very interesting situation. joining me now from los angeles, fox news contributor leslie marshall and from fort worth, texas, radio talk show host janine turner. before we get to that, ladies, i know you saw that last segment. i want to ask you, what does mitt romney have to do? what can he do to regain favor among female voters especially female voters under 50? janine? >> i agree with a lot of what tammy bruce had to say earlier. romney needs to point out that it's chauvin miss chauvin miss stick that all women care about is uterus. women are more concerned in the "u.s.a. today" poll that's out saying they really care more about health care and the top five out of six things are not contraception. it's health care, deficit,

international issues, things of this nature. fuel crisis. >> juan: wait, gentleman gentleman jean. hold up. health care, president obama is going to say women can get preventative care under obama care. your kids can stay on your health care coverage until they are 26. that doesn't sunday persuasive to me. >> juan, what's going to happen with heal care if your kid needs an mri or surgery they will need to wait a year to get it. no one under stands even the supreme court. we don't know the devastation. >> juan: you are going to tell me what mitt romney is going to say to these young women. how could you find that persuasive? >> chauvin dismiss. obama saying just about their uterus. shear interesting statistic. 740,000 jobs have been lost since obama took office. 740,000.

683,000 of those jobs were held by women. women, many other issues. romney needs to point that out. >> juan: leslie marshall, what should romney do to try to whoa american women especially young american women for the fall election. >> needs to move to the center on women's issues. specifically women's health issues. when you are talking about, which i do not feel the president was saying that we just care about are are all about our uterus. outbeing groce, a lot of stuff going on down there, cervical cancer, ovarian cancer, uterine cancer. these are significant health issues outside of contraception which is inclusive among affordable care act which is inclusive among the concern with women's health issues. and all we have to look at is from the middle of february how the numbers from mitt romney actually moved over to the president. >> juan: but, leslie, i know that what i'm trying to do is how can mitt romney fix it? i'm wondering what about appoint ago sarah palin type

to be his vice president? what would leslie say to that? >> well, juan, let me -- i will tell what you i'm going to say to that it's ♪ the gender of the person standing next to him on the platform it is where they stand on the issues. and one area in america right now, juan, where we are seeing unity and i think it's awesome as a woman is between this gender we as females that are standing together and we're saying, you know what? we don't like only 18% of the ceos. we don't like -- >> juan: okay, that's not obama's fault. that's not romney's fault. let me try a different topic with the two of you. let's watch this segment coming from barbara walters having a confirmation -- conversation. >> when you had your surgery, what did they do? >> the surgery is pretty intense. >> so if i saw you undressed, you would look like a woman to me, totally? yes? >> of course.

>> juan: okay. now she was born a man. but she has had the surgeries. now she is a woman as you can see. she has had the hormone treatments. and she wants to compete in the miss universe, donald trump has now reversed the policy which had been that you have to be born a woman. trump says now, she is eligible. she will compete. what do you say? janine? >> me? well, look, as i said last week, it's a private enterprise and he has a right to set whatever rules and stipulations he wants. so if at first he didn't want it but now it's okay, that's his prerogative. >> juan: how do you feel as a woman competing against a guy? >> well, you know, i feel that naturally born women are at a disadvantaged especially if they haven't had the breast augmentation. >> juan: hey, you are at no disadvantage. let me just tell you. >> yes, we are. the legs and everything. just like what i said last week. >> juan: leslie? >> bottom line here is i think

it's essential that he did switch because this is going to happen more. there are more and more people out there that are going to change their gender. and are going to be able to afford to do it down the road. the transgender community is a part of our society. >> juan: this is making me crazy. i'm an old guy. making me crazy. ladies, thank you so much. directly ahead, why are there still no charges against george zimmerman in the trayvon martin case? i want to know. we'll talk to an attorney who says take a deep breath, everyone. calm down. and, later, bill o'reilly versus jon stewart in a battle of wits over the $4 shrimp. what a controversy. this is one for the ages. straight ahead. stay with us. ♪

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>> juan: in the factor follow-up segment tonight, new gallup poll shows americans are deeply divide and sharply so along racial lines when it comes to the death of trayvon martin. and what should happen to the accused shooter george zimmerman? 51% of blacks say zimmerman is definitely guilty of a crime. while just 11% of nonblacks feel that way. additionally 73% of blacks say zimmerman would have been arrested if the person he shot were white. just 35% of nonblacks agree. the special prosecutor assigned to the investigation recently explained why there has not been an arrest yet. >> the problem with making an immediate arrest is we have laws in the state of florida that you can only hold a person for a certain amount of time before they have to be released from jail. that's why when there is an intensive investigation affirmative defense you wouldn't necessarily rush to an arrest. >> with us now joey jackson a criminal defense attorney. joey, bologna. there is no way that i would

shoot you and that they wouldn't arrest me and at least allow me to make my case. now, what we heard from her was, oh, he has an affirmative defense because of the stand your ground law in florida. at least arrest the man. why wouldn't his family say this was injustice that he hasn't been arrested. >> listen, waterboarding, it's a very fair point. you should be outraged process here. as the police rush to judgment and reverse by invoyeur indicating that he did nothing wrong. i think the special prosecutor needs to make a full fair investigation because that's where we get our process. we don't want arrest predicated on public outrage we want an arrest predicated upon the facts. those facts will be upon her investigation and if necessary, juan, she will impanel a grand jury which she does not have to do in order for an arrest to be made. >> juan: i'm not buying it. do you know why? >> why? >> juan: it seems to me if you are talking about public

confidence of a full and thorough investigation and of course mr. zimmerman needs to be treated fairly as well. >> sure. ungentlemanon none of that would be precluded by having him arrested and inspire confidence in the process that this case was being treated just like any other case. you are not going to tell me if i shot you right here on this set that i wouldn't be arrested. >> you wouldn't do that juan, listen. >> the point is that we want her to investigate everything and after that to draw certain conclusions, okay? what i think the public confidence is about, it's about making sure that every stone is unturned in this case. not leaving anything to doubt. that's going to take finding out what the facts are. >> juan: you can't be coming back -- i'm not arguing with you. we need a thorough investigation. i'm simply saying to you, joey? why not arrest? >> here is what happened. he was shot in february. >> here is what happened. she is scheduled to impanel a grand jury on tuesday. this coming tuesday would be the tenth. at that time you can present every fact of that grand jury and let the stones fall where they may.

however, understand this, under florida law you don't even have to impanel a grand jury. she can decide independently on what she knows now that there is probable cause. why? in florida, the only time you need a grand jury to indict is when it's a capital offense. after that she can do it. i predict she will. i predict she will do it not again predicated upon what the public is telling her to do but predicated upon what the facts should suggest she should do. when those facts come out what i firmly believe is that a jury will get this case and they will be the ones that make the determination as to what occurred. >> juan: i love it. what i'm telling you probable cause is a very low bar and that bar has been passed for an arrest of george zimmerman and i don't understand. everybody can say let's have a lengthy investigation. but an arrest, an arrest is a simple matter and -- >> -- it is. >> juan: what if zimmerman flees? what if he takes off. >> i don't purr receive that happening. -- perceive that happening. the other point on this is too when you do make an arrest you

have to be prepared to proceed to move forward. obviously not comfortable at this time with making that happen. having said that i think it's imminent and i think an arrest will occur and there will be a prosecution that occurs here. we should not make a rush to make an arrest. we should make a rush to do justice in this case. >> i'm fine with justice. i just think an arrest is part, a legitimate part of the justice system. by the way, we talked about the divide along racial lines. the one point of agreement black and white is about the same about a fifth of the blacks and 50 of whites think zimmerman is probably guilty of something. jeez, maybe we should arrest him. what's going on here? >> look, it's going to happen. it's imminent. it absolutely will happen. i think public confidence will be restored as a result of that. also no surprise it will break down along racial bounds. >> i think that would be great counselor. thank you so much. plenty more ahead as the factor speeds along this evening. notorious serial killer charles manson up for parole. my goodness, is that just a

waste of time and money? geraldo -- will reply. first obama's remarks on the supreme court. today he faces a daunting jobs ♪ ♪ lord, you got no reason ♪ you got no right ♪ ♪ i find myself at the wrong place ♪ [ male announcer ] the ram 1500 express. ♪ it says a lot about you. ♪ in a deep, hemi-rumble sort of way. guts. glory. ram.

>> juan: herald segment tonight, two hot topics including herald's up coming trip to afghanistan. this will be his 11th time there since 9/11. but, first, one of the most infamous serial killers of our time, charles manson up for parole again this week for the 12th time. nobody thinks he has a chance of getting out. i don't even think he thinks he has a chance. he he doesn't even plan to show up at the hearing. manson slaughtered nine people back in 196 9. nearly 20 years later geraldo rivera confronted him in an epic jail house interview. >> do you think i would still be here if i was guilty of anything? and look me in the eye. look me straight away in the eye.

do i look like i'm guilty about anything? >> you look more guilty than anybody i ever looked in my life. >> really? you see what i'm saying? the guy you are trying to make me into is impossible. you are creating a legend. you are creating a beast. you are creating whatever you are judging yourselves with into the word manson. that's not me at all. >> you are not a beast, charlie? you are a beast. >> my hair was more brunette then. >> juan: you were looking good, buddy. you look me in the eye. when you looked him in the eye, you called him a murderer. in fact, you called him a dog. a murdering dog. >> a mass murdering dog. because is he a mass murdering dog. he is a fascinating character. he has a magnetic mccall personality in the way that i suspect hitler had a magnetic personality. >> juan: i'm the parole officer, you are charles manson, make the case. >> i will just read you

charlie's words. how about that? i don't disrespect you and take your rights. give me my fen rights. i didn't have nothing to w. killing those people period. i told you down the line i wasn't around anyone when they killed. i'm not saying i'm not capable of doing it myself. i'm saying this i didn't do that and i could have proved that in a court of law. that's what he testified to in 1997 the last time he personally appeared before the parole board. >> juan: you have been right there in the room with charles manson. do you have any sense of mercy for a man who is getting older and may die in jail. >> i don't care. it's a perfect place for him to die. he would have been better off executed him before the united states supreme court declared death penalty unconstitutional in 1972. he richly deserved to die. he engineered a mass murder. it created the private security business. so paranoid were people on the west side of los angeles, for example. he manipulated the lives of these upper middle class kids and got them to commit

barbaric acts to take sharon tate the actress, turn her upside down and slit her pregnant belly and to do other atrocities to the other victims. >> juan: were you scared? i'm seeing you in the room right there were you scared? >> he said a funny thing. he said you know something? if i don't like the way this turns out, i'm going to get your head handed to your wife in a basket. i said, charlie, if anything happens to me i'm going to have the mexicans in here and light you on fire again. because he had joined the aryan nations and some mexican guys took some lighter fluids and zippo lighter and sprayed and burned him. i threatened him right back, you know there in san quentin is he a big cheese. is he not at san quentin anymore. he is at a different facility. as you stare evil in the face juan as i have done time and time again. all you have got to do is check them out and see they are empty wind bags. he may have mesmerized the knive kids that came under his

sway in 1969, but, you know, i'm a street guy and i can tell a rap and rhetoric and i saw right through him. he is the fascination with manson and these murders, i figured it out. why is it that kids even today are buying these t-shirts that they are still fascinated with him? it's because he didn't do it himself but he got these kids to do it for him and to reduce themselves -- >> juan: is he a sick -- >> right. on jawb the thing of it is with charlie man son now he is alleging is there any way you want to go back and talk to him? >> you know, i don't have much to say. why had an epic conversation. it lasted half a day. >> juan: forget it. now you talk about staring evil down, you're going back to afghanistan. everybody in this building wants to know why are you going back for the 12th time? why are you putting yourself in this risk? what's your wife have to say about this? >> i'm glad you asked me about that because she asked the why question and everyone since then has asked me the why question.

it's -- afghanistan is over in the minds of most americans. we want to be out of there. you know, we just want to not wait to 2014 but to get all the troops back and end this war now. once usama bin laden was killed that was an end of it emotionally. we still have 90,000 people there and they're family to me. i don't want them to be forgotten. and i promised them i would go back. i'm going back and be with the unit of the 82nd airborne. i was with them in 2003 when war broke out in iraq. i was with them in afghanistan. and i promised these people, you know, i met them when they were privates -- >> juan: let's have a personal conversation. forget -- i'm telling you we have seen americans killed, in fact we have seen afghan soldiers killed in what continues to be a turbulent situation. you know about the recent massacre committed. apparently, allegedly by an american. >> sergeant bales. >> this is a bad situation, geraldo, why? >> we had three americans

killed in that suicide bombing. we have to watch -- allies are as dangerous to us now as the enemy. i have to be with the people. >> juan: got to go with you. geraldo, thanks. when we come right back, a disappointing jobs report. a very bad week for president obama. ben stein right here and, later, bill o'reilly jon stewart on just how out of control government spending has become. the factor

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>> juan: thanks for staying with us, i'm juan williams in for bill bill o'reilly. big problems this week for president obama. including a firestorm over his supreme court remarks. but, first, more bad news on the jobs front. just 120,000 jobs created in march. about 80,000 fewer than expected. the unemployment rate dropping only a tenth of a point to

8.2%. almost 13 million americans out of work. at this rate president obama is going to have a tough summer ahead. joining us now from los angeles, economists ben stein. ben, thank you for coming on. >> honored to be here, sir. >> juan: ben, let me lay out a scenario for you. president obama says simply, look, i'm going after the oil companies. i'm going after wall street because i think that will take people away from looking at a persist persist ten -- persistently high unemployment rate. >> wildly untrue. the oil companies haven't done anything wrong. i don't know why he is after the oil companies. they don't set the prices. they are not gouging anyone. they are losing market share constantly all over the world to the big -- oil companies. the energy picture for them is bleak with the discovery of seemingly endless reservoirs of shale and natural gas. so i don't know why is he going after them. he has the kind of 1937

socialist youth league city college of new york approach to all economic questions. that is go after oil companies. he probably city thinks the rockefellers own them and also then go after wall street. but wall street -- >> juan: hold on, hold on. i let you go on there because i didn't want to do an o'reilly on you. i wanted you to get your point out. ben, have you driven by a gas station recently? $5 for gas. the american people are mad at the gas companies and the oil companies. if you look at their profits their profits are up, up, up. what we learn is even as you increase supplies in the united states they are shipping more oil overseas. there is lots of reasons. their salaries out the roof, ben. i'm saying that looks like fertile ground. >> the oil companies do not set the price of oil except for a worldwide market of oil. price of oil is totally beyond the control of an exxon mobil or any u.s. oil company. it's beyond the control of any one oil company except for

traders in new york and hong kong. they have nothing to do with setting the price. the profits oil companies are not going to the few billionaires playing golf at elder rad doe country club in indian wells, california. the problems the oil companies are owned by the pension funds and retire retirees of the united states of america. we want companies to have big profits. they are not doing anything illegal. salaries at the people at the oil companies are pennies compared to people on wall street and hedge funds. i respectfully tell you there is nothing wrong with the oil companies. they are doing their job. >> juan: what's wrong with wall street? >> they could do some attack on wall street. let's face it, the huge majority of people on wall street are good honest people who are just doing their jobs trying to build up the retirement accounts and college account of ordinary citizens. it's just a myth that wall street also is run by a group of grasping lawless criminals and there are a few bad people there. overall they do a pretty good

job. >> juan: that was a political scenario for you because you have such a fertile mind bent. the reality is we are 8.2% unemployment. that's the lowest it's been in a long, long time. it's three years it hasn't been that low. it's the best actually, we have had the best four months in terms of job creation in the last two years. >> i agree. you know something? with all due respect to my republic friends and colleagues, i don't see much he could be doing a lot different from what he is doing. the real fight here is being carried on by the federal reserve and i think mr. bernanke is -- has been doing recently a pretty good job at that. i cannot fault mr. obama for the -- >> you know what? mitt romney disagrees with you. mitt romney came out today. what did he say? he said these numbers are proof that the obama economic policies are failing the american people. ben stein, what do you dues?

>> i don't think that's true at all. i think mr. romney has to say that. i don't see a single thing besides taking that sneer of big business off his face that mr. obama could do differently. already running at a very high degree of stimulus, fiscal, high degree of stimulus, monetary. i don't think there is much that he can do differently. >> bill: let's shift gears. look at what president obama has been doing with the supreme court. now, you talked about a snare a second ago. i don't know how you can get away from thinking this president is pretty arrogant when he starts lecturing the high court about what they can rule on and what they can't rule on. and when it comes to obama care, the individual mandate specifically, he is trying to make the case you know what? you guys are acting politically. you are not obeying the rules of the law. what do you think, ben stein? >> i think making a serious mistake by threatening the supreme court and warning them. i think he can say what he hopes for. i think he can say the law is

constitutional otherwise he wouldn't have proposed it in the first place. anything that has the slightest ting is is not a good thing in american politics. it scares me that he was a professor of constitutional law because he doesn't seem -- >> juan: scares a lot of people. >> he doesn't know it that well. >> juan: up next, o'reilly talks to the most cleric in the country. later, bill squares off with jon stewart over, of all things, a $4 piece of shrimp. back copd makes it hard to breathe, so i wasn't playing much of a role in my own life, but with advair, i'm breathing better so now i can take the lead on a science adventure. advair is clinically proven to help significantly improve lung function. unlike most copd medications, advair contains both an anti-inflammatory and a long-acting bronchodilator, workintogether to help improve ur lung function all day.

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>> juan: in the factor flashback segment tonight, a good friday encore of bill's interview with the most powerful catholic cleric in the country timothy cardinal

dolland. as you may know the obama administration is demanding that all catholic hospitals and universities cover birth control in their health insurance plan. the church bitterly opposes that. and the relationship between the president and the church is strained. cardinal dolland met with president obama last november. the meeting did not go well. as the cardinal explained to bill. >> i don't want to act like i'm judging the president. i don't know. there are those who tell me that i was mislead. there are those who tell me that you simply misunderstood. >> bill: they haven't backed off and you have a number of options that you can challenge. however, the church basically is in a position now of promoting an unpopular concept. the ban of contra session. >> you are right on target. it's a tough battle because of that and our opponents are very shrewd. they have chosen an issue that they know we are not very popular on. that's why, bill, we have to

be -- we have to be very vigorous in insisting this is not about contraception. it's about religious freedom and i don't want to judge people but i think there would be a drift in the administration that this is a good issue. if qui divide the catholic community because it's already divided and if one can caricature the bishops as being hopelessly out of touch, these bullies who are trying to achieve judicially and legislatively what they have been unable to achieve because their moral integrity has been compromised recently there is that force out there trying to caricature us, all right? we can't back down from this fight because it's about religious freedom. it's close to the very heart of what the democratic enterprise that we know and love as the united states of america is all about. >> bill: does the catholic church want to be a player in american politics? >> yeah. well, the catholic church wants its people to be a player in the american politics. 28% of the population of the united states are catholics,

okay? and the catholic church, through them, you bet, wants to have a say in the direction of our beloved country. to think that there is a berlin wall between one's religious convictions and one's political activity is crazy. it's ludicrous, it's not only non-catholic, non-christian, non-biblical, it's also unamerican. you are a better historian than i am, bill, you know that every great movement in american history has been driven by people of religious conviction. and if we duct tape the churches. not just the catholic church. if we duct tape the role of religion and churches role of americans in the place that's going to leave a deficit there are a number of people who want to fill it up name lay new religion called secularism, which would be as doctrineaire as infallible as they character the other religions as doing. to see that morally driven,

religiously convinced people want to exercise their political responsibility, i think that is not only at the heart of biblical religion, it's at the heart of the american enterprise. >> i want to get into one more thing before i let you go. you said the religion of secularism, all right? so it's basically the catholic church and other faith-based people and other religions against the american media entertainment industry. that's how i see it all right? the american press very secular, would you agree? >> yeah. >> and the entertainment industry pounding secularism all day long. so you find yourself on the defensive. all right? just as you are and now in the intrusion by the obama administration into how you operate your faith. >> prior to that bill, there was a remarkable unanimity among catholics saying this is time for the church to stand up. this is an unwarranted, radical, unprecedented intrusion in the life of the church. we can't go there as

americans. >> bill: you think there could be a uniting. >> that's been fractured a bit since february 10th. there are some who say okay now, the administration has seen our point. we can back off. we bishops don't think we can. i'm wondering if this is the issue that will bring us together. >> bill: maybe. would you say to american catholics don't vote for president obama based upon this intrusion? would you say that? >> i wouldn't say that -- i would never myself would say don't vote against or don't vote for a particular candidate. for one, it's counter reproductive. i would probably be doing the opponent a big favor if i would. because even our -- even very faithful catholics, bill, don't like their bishops or priests telling them how to vote person or even on a particular issue. they like us to speak about principle. they like us to get clear and cogent and compelling. they don't like us to get very personal. so, i wouldn't say that, no. >> juan: pinheads and patriots on deck featuring o'reilly, jon stewart and shrimp gate.

you don't want to miss this. stay with us. we'll be right back. [ fabric flapping in wind ] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪

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pin heads and patriots. the general services administration spent a whopping $800,000 on a conference which included among other crazy expenses a cocktail reception where shrimp was served at $4 apiece. $4 for a piece of shrimp! o'reilly's outrage over the

shrimp did not escape our friend jon stewart. >> join me now as we play can you make bill o'reilly pay $4. at home all you need to do is this. very simple. all you need to play this at home is a plate of shrimp, four $1 bills oh, and we need bill o'reilly. that is the only thing we don't have. oh, my god! are bill o'reilly? >> why are you bothering me, stewart? i'm not paying four bucks for a shrimp. >> let's not get ahead of ourselves. you know he how the game is played. let's get right to it. >> you are wasting your time. >> here is the first is narrow. you have a rare medical condition that requires the consumption of at least one shrimp per day. one funds shrimp for 27 cents

but the profits go to fund the ach. the other sells shrimp for $4 a shrimp that donates proceeds to a shelter for flags damaged in fires. you you need the shrimp o'reilly which will you buy? >> i'm not eating a shrimp. i will give a donation from bill o'reilly .com to the flag people. >> all right, all right. would you pay $4 for a shrimp if it were wrapped in a $10 bill netting you a profit of $6? >> i would steal the $4 shrimp and then donate it to the occupy wall street folks so they know what the 1%ers eat. >> try this one. >> i don't buy it. >> aliens have invaded earth. and have used some kind of shrimpifying ray turning all our food into shrimp and against all economic principle instead of causing the price to plummet about somehow raises the price and you discover there is an exhaust port in

their spaceship that you can use to blow it up. it is the exact size and shape of a shrimp. would you buy a $4 shrimp to throw into the exhaust port and save the planet? >> no! >> o'reilly! >> any planet that allows $4 shrimp not worth saving. [ laughter ] >> that is the benchmark. last one. a man comes to you with a time machine. the information that he has is that hitler is allergic to shrimp, only $4 shrimp. [buzzer] >> that is the buzzer. i have lost. bill o'reilly has held strong in his refusal to pay $4 for shrimp. i salute you, sir. >> i can't believe you annoyed me with this. >> what? >> i can't believe you annoyed me with this. >> i apologize. it won't happen again, sir. your prize coming to you. a thousand dollars paid in the

form of 250 shrimp. >> stewart, you know what you can do with your shrimp. >> bill o'reilly, everybody. we'll be right back. >> i think we can all agree $4 shrimp, pin headed. and on that note be sure to check out bill's new column on shrimpgate on bill o'reilly .com. and don't forget about bill's big best seller killing lincoln and if you buy it on bill o'reilly .com you will get eyes of justice for free. bill and miller will be in new york city on may 12, indianapolis june 22. chicago june 23. tickets selling fast. details on billo'reilly .com. that is it for us tonight. hope you have a happy passover and easter. thanks for watching. i'm juan williams. and please remember the spin stopause we're captioned by closed captioning services, inc.