pentagon as tensions rise between israel and america over the iranian nuclear threat. welcome to "america live," everyone, i'm megyn kelly. at this very moment, israeli defense minister ehud barak is arriving at the pentagon for a high-level meeting with u.s. defense secretary leon panetta just days after barak warned that these nuclear talks going on about iran do not exempt iran from an attack by israel. israeli leaders fear that last weekend's talks with iran are just a waste of time giving tehran more time to continue enriching uranium without limitation, and now the israeli prime minister is using words like holocaust to discuss the potential threat here. netanyahu even going so far as to accuse the obama administration and others of giving iran a, quote, briebie -- freebie when they agreed to more talks late in may in baghdad.

neff tally bennett is a major in the defense force reserves. thank you very much for being back on the program. ehud barak is now at the pentagon meeting with our defense secretary. why? >> well, i guess the main point, megyn, is that the talks in istanbul did absolutely nothing to stop the centrifuges in tehran. what's happening is iran is using its famous delay and maneuver tactics to buy time, and it's now just bought another six weeks, until may 23rd. they've tripled the pace of production of high-grade uranium. they're moving, rapidly moving their facilities underground so they won't be vulnerable to attacks. they're testing neutron generators. these guys are absolutely serious about acquiring a weapon, and the west at the same time is doing nothing except talking. so the bottom line is that america and the west have to show plausible, a plausible

threat if we want to have any chance of stopping iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. megyn: and yet there is, obviously, real controversy in the thought of israel and/or the united states bombing iran over its nuclear program. and both sides that participated in these falks with iran -- talks last week with iran described the meeting as, quote, positive. so to those who would say that's good, let's have another meeting at the end of may and give peace a chance, you say what? >> well, it seems that the west is sort of like a tourist in a persian bazaar, a very gullible one. i want to tell you how the iranians perceive the west. let me read you a quote from the main iranian newspaper, and i quote. the u.s. keeps backing down from its red lines. if we plot the u.s. positions on a graph, it'll show an amazing downward plunge of the american administration, always setting

large goals and then backing down and quietly adopting and replacing them with other, humbler goals. so so we set red lines and then two months later the red line is gone. the iranians can smell or feel that the west is not serious about the sanctions. words, as powerful as they might be, are just rhetoric. what we need is action. paralyzing sanctions right now, not six weeks from now, but right now. megyn: our president seems to suggest that we're already having an impact with our economic sanctions and that the iranians know very well that the threat of more is real and would cripple them. in response to netanyahu's suggestion that we've given them a freebie in giving them another five weeks before we sit down for round two with the talks with iran, this is what barack obama, our president, said this past weekend. stand by. >> and the notion that somehow we've given something away or a freebie would indicate that iran

has gotten something. in fact, they've got some of the toughest sanctions that they're going to be facing. megyn: your thoughts on it, sir. >> well, megyn, it's not about what the words we say, it's about what iran actually does. they're installing thousands of new centrifuges as we speak be. so, clearly, they're not very impressed by the words in washington. now, it's more than that. lately there have been leaks coming from the american administration that are limiting israel's operational abilities, that are hinting that israel may not have the capacity to attack. that is not what you want to do if you want to stop iran. if you want to stop iran, they have to feel there's a plausible and immediate threat to iran's very viability. we're nowhere near that right now, and if we want to prevent the need of an attack, then we need devastating assistances right now in -- sanctions right now in iran.

megyn: all of that could be under discussion at the pentagon. -and-a-half tally, thank you so much for being with us. >> thank you very much, megyn. megyn: well, another big issue in front of our defense secretary panetta, syria. this morning mr. panetta was asked about using the u.s. military now to help the rebels who want to overthrow president bashar assad. we've been showing you the devastation in syria. remember the video last week of that little girl, that 3-year-old girl walking around her grandpa's house saying bashar assad had done it? well, panetta said he thought diplomacy was our only option in syria and said if that works, it would have a huge impact on the situation in iran. >> it's fair to say that iran is syria's only ally in the region. no other country stands to lose more than iran from the eventual

fall of the assad regime. megyn: meantime, inside syria president assad's violent crackdown against his own people continues. amateur video here believed to show government forces bombarding some cities. and in a remarkable turn of events, the wyomings of the -- wives of the u.k. ambassadorred to the united nations are calling out assad's wife for living the glamorous life as the syrian people suffer. watch. >> this is a letter signed by women all over the world. dear asma, some women care for style, and some women care for their people. megyn: we'll have much more on all of this in a live report from the middle east just a bit later in the hour. well, new developments in

the colombia prostitution scandal that's been roiling the secret service. we are learning now that the agents may have done some of their own advance planning. we're getting reports that they booked a party room at this hotel before heading out for the night and returning, as you may know by now, with some 21 prostitutes. this development as the secret service has forced three of the agents out of their job in a growing scandal that's overshadowing the president's appearance at an economic summit. meantime, director mark sullivan is finding himself on the hot seat again. one republican congressman, republican randy forbes of virginia, is calling on the president to fire this man. coming up, the chairman of the house oversight committee, darrell issa, will be here. he and the ranking democrat on this committee have sent a letter to mr. sullivan, the head of the service, expressing concerns these agents may have exposed sensitive and classified information to the prostitutes. again, mr. issa will be here right here on "america live" coming up. another fox news alert now

on breaking news out of florida. in just the last couple of hours, that state's republican governor announcing that he is assigning a task force to examine his state's controversial stand your ground law. the law may be the linchpin in the prosecution against george zimmerman who's now facing second-degree murder charges in connection with the death of teenager trayvon martin. greg jarrett is tracking all this from our newsroom today. >> many demands for a repeal of florida's stand your ground law, rick scott announcing a task force to review not just that law, but potentially other gun laws involving public safety. it'll be 17 members, different backgrounds. police, lawyers, community activists and members of community watch associations. public meetings will be held across the state to get the views of citizens. governor scott seemed to go out of his way to caution people not to overreact to what has become a racially-sensitive subject

involving guns. >> i'm a firm supporter of the second amendment. i also want to make sure that we do not rush to conclusions about the stand your ground law or any other laws in our state. >> i spoke to the nra, canned for a statement, still waiting for that. but, megyn, one could argue all the debate and emotion over stand your ground is utterly displaced because, arguably, it could not even apply here. you're required to retreat when threatened, but if zimmerman's story was that he was surprised by an approaching trayvon martin who suddenly attacked him, then there was no opportunity for retreat, thus rendering stand your ground legally irrelevant. megyn? megyn: and the author of the law says he does not believe that that law's at issue in this case. he said that early on, but, you know, the accusation has been that people who have an anti-gun agenda are using this case as an opportunity to attack a law that's been very unpopular with

those who are anti-gun -- >> yeah. talk about a rush to government. megyn: well, the governor looking into it there, so we'll see. gregg, thank you. president obama has been flying from battleground state to battleground state attacking mitt romney and the republicans by name and raising questions about whether he is campaigning on the taxpayers' dime. we'll investigate that just ahead. plus, there's a growing chorus of voices demanding that rocker ted nugent be put behind bars for the comments he made about the president. but is there a double standard here? that is right after this break. and one of our fox news analysts is getting national attention now for comments he made on this program yesterday. about some controversial photos of our troops taken in afghanistan and plastered all over the l.a. times. today ralph peters is back with his take on the times' publishing those photos and how military brass is handling this crisis now. >> our soldiers out on the front line and our marines are under

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megyn: we are awaiting updates on a develop canning story concerning rocker ted nugent and an interview he had with the secret service. the federal agents wanted to speak with him about comments he made to a crowd at the nra convention about president obama and democratic leaders. remarks that have led to calls for nugent's arrest now for allegedly making threats. here's a little of what nugent said. >> our president, attorney general, our vice president, hillary clinton, they're criminals. they're criminals. and if you take that adamant we the people defiance, remember,

we're americans because we defied. we didn't negotiate and compromise with the king, we defied the emperors. we are patriots. we are braveheart. we need to ride into that battlefield and chop their heads off in november. megyn: lars larson is a syndicated radio talk show host and my quest now. lars, now the secret service is sitting down with ted nugent because that's being perceived by some as a direct threat on the president's life, and now you have growing caught. >> rage on -- growing outrage and more and more calls from mitt romney who has con ted nugent's endorsement to directly respond to those comments. they've already come out and said, you know, we need to be more civil, but they want more. is this something that should be investigated by the service, and is this something that somehow reflects poorly on the romney campaign? >> you know, the secret service looks at any threat against the president's life. of course, it's illegal, it's one of the few pieces of free

speech that isn't allowed in the united states, and i don't think it should be. if you threaten the life of the president. i have knew gent on my radio show from time to time, he's a great guy, and if you've ever seen him, you know that he's absolutely outrageous in his speech. but was he threatening the life of the president? that's ridiculous. and it seems to me that an awful lot of people in this business whether it's dennis miller or reilly at night use metaphors, and it's clear he was using the braveheart metaphor. it's a figure of speech. it doesn't mean literally chop hillary clinton's head off, and it's not a threat to the president's life. and is there a day of the week when the left isn't outraged about something? megyn: but he said specifically if barack obama is selected, i'll either be dead or in jail this time next year. >> right, exactly. now, there are a number of ways to understand that. i mean, you could assume that what he's saying is that if barack obama's reelected, i'll try to kill him, and then i'll be flown -- thrown in jail for

it, or he could be saying both his vice president and attorney general are anti-gun grabbers. in a second term, this administration will come down hard on gun rights and will try to take guns away from people. and i think that in the context of whether nugent was speaking to a bunch of freedom-loving, second amendment-loving folks at the nra, what he's saying is he could end up in jail because there are a lot of us who have said we are not going to have our gun rights interrupted by a president who clearly doesn't believe in the constitution. megyn: that's one interpretation. another interpretation is, potentially, that he meant some harm to the president. should the secret service at least interview the person to find out what the meaning was? >> yes, yes. i think so. and, you know, if you know nugent, he goes regularly to gun ranges with law enforcement people. i'm sure what's going to happen is the secret service will walk through the two obligatory questions, and then they'll

probably sit around and shoot the bull for an hour and a half because ted knew gent is a great guy, and everybody i know in law enforcement loves the guy. megyn: is there a double standard here, lars? we looked into the background here, and, you know, there's a rapper named common who allegedly made threats about president bush, talking about burning a bush, and we have an excerpt of that. this guy became controversial later because he was invited by the first lady to the white house, michelle obama, to the white house, but they say he called for the burning of george bush. here's a clip. stand by. >> burn a bush, killing over oil and greece, no weapons of destruction. how can we follow a leader when it's a corrupt one? megyn: so as far as we understand, the secret service did not investigate that. is this some sort of a double standard? >> yeah, it does seem to be a double standard because the folks on the left, i've got the tell you, megyn, i know people think this is a familiar refrain, but there are folks on liberal talk radio who regularly

say things that are absolutely outrageous, and our usual comment is, boy, if a republican had said something like that, he probably would be in jail or under investigation. i don't mind the secret service talking to nugent. he's going to satisfy them he was using metaphor, he was not talking about doing harm to the president and, in fact, i'm fairly certain not having talked to nugent yet this week, i think that what he was referring to is that this president is going to come down with limitations on americans that a lot of americans are not going to tolerate, but he is not talking about going out and harming the president. ted nugent is one of the most flag-waving guys i know. megyn: but now this is getting turned into something more by some on the left. there's an article by a columnist named natalie jennings who talks about not just his comments about president obama, but his comments about debbie wasserman-schultz and nancy pelosi, and nugent went on glenn beck's show the other day and said i couldn't be more proud that this soulless, heartless idiot feeble my attempts to find

fault with me, ted nugent, and on and on he went. the columnist writes: in a year when the war on women rages, nugent's words leave a sour taste and conjure up unsettling, violent images. >> every time i had to talk to our broadcast lawyers about libel and things like that, they would say, lars, truth is the ultimate defense, and i think that's the response i'd have. having looked at a lot of what ms. wasserman-schultz has had to say, she fits the description pretty well as far as i'm concerned. megyn: is this going to be a talking point now for some on the left, that in the same way bill maher has made these disgusting comments about women and looking to the president to disavow them or president's campaign which has taken a million dollars from him, should mitt romney specifically disavow ted nugent, his endorsement because he has said these things about high-profile democratic women? >> megyn, romney is far too

stiff. he needs some nugent in his campaign to liven it up. as far as whether he should reject it or this is part of a war on women, there is no equation between ted nugent describing a politician as brain dead, male or female, and some of the males are brain dead too, and using crude, ugly, disgusting terms for female genitalia to describe governor palin by mr. maher. there's just simply no equation between the two on that. megyn: lars larson, thank you, sir. >> thank you, megyn. megyn: fox news alert now coming in right at this moment as police in texas are on a wild car chase after trying to execute a search warrant. texas, on a wild car chase after trying to execute a search warrant. the car is a red suv, you can see it at the bottom of your screen. gregg jarrett is helping us follow the pictures. what do we know? >> he's been all over the place at high rates of speed. dallas pd was apparently trying to execute a felony warrant at a

particular location, dixon avenue and second avenue, and suddenly the suspect was able to get into this red suv and literally take off through the neighborhood, out on the highways. he's been on highway 175 to the central expressway, a very high-traffic road. he got onto woodall/rogers. now, police have been fairly cautious here. they're keeping their distance, and there you see they're just allowing this driver now -- looks like he's crossing a bridge of some sort -- and for a while it appears as though he was in a very congested high-rise area. but they are allowing him now, he's reaching an intersection, to simply have his way behind the wheel of this vehicle. there's always a concern, as you know, that if you push him a little bit too much, he

increases his speed and puts others at risk. so right now they are simply following him. obviously, there are choppers in the air that are keeping track of him. they have not put down one of the spike strips that will often blow out the tires and then eventually bring the vehicle to a halt. but we don't know much more about the individual, and we think it's only one individual in the automobile. t a red suv -- it's a red suv, and apparently, he was being served with a felony warrant and was about to be arrested or was in the process of being arrested when he made his escape in this suv. now, here we are at an intersection, and, you know, megyn, he -- i give him a little credit. when he does reach intersections, he doesn't just blow through them at 70 miles an hour as we've seen before -- megyn: well, and one never knows whether he does that out of concern for the general citizenry or for himself, one can assume the latter given the circumstances of the chase. >> yeah. but you always worry about this.

we watched one in los angeles, and be it, you know, went right through an intersection at a high rate of speed and cross traffic was hit, and, in fact, it wiped out an entire family of four. megyn: oh, goodness. >> so, you know, this is the thing you have to worry about. you don't want to push the suspect into killing other people or injuring them. megyn: the windows of the suv are dark, we can't see from in this vantage point. have we seen or read anything on the wire suggesting there is more than one person in this vehicle? >> we have not. all we know is a felony warrant was executed at that particular address that i gave, and i can see here -- i'm trying to do two things at once, but i don't see any additional information about a passenger or passengers. involves in this -- f involved in this low-speed, then high-speed chase. when he was out on the highway, megyn, he was really booking it. megyn: how long has this been going on, gregg?

>> well, let's see here. if i look at when this was first reported, you're talking about it's been going on about a half an hour. megyn: and we've been watching this guy, you can see the police keep a safe distance until, generally, they're given an opportunity. and we've seen them use the strips in the past that gregg mentions, that has not yet been done to our knowledge. now he appears to be slowing down and making a turn up, up on a sidewalk to get around the traffic. >> oh, yeah. megyn: and look how slow they go. but they just for the public safety don't ram a car in the middle of a car chase. they generally let it come to a more natural conclusion, and it always does! and it always seems to follow something along these lines, gregg, where they're executing a felony warrant, or they've caught the suspect in in the midst of another crime. but one has to wonder how the execution of that warrant was pursued if guy had the time to get into his car and drive away. we don't have answers to those or many other questions at this moment. >> well, you know, it's

altogether possible, and we've seep this before, they go to the house, and suddenly out of the garage a vehicle emerges, and, you know, you don't always anticipate that sort of thing. theretheir other alternative he, megyn, other than the spike strip is the pit maneuver. you and i have seen this unfold many times before in which, and usually happens in a residential area when the vehicle, the suspect vehicle slows down, police are able to approach from the back and the side. and what they do is, essentially, sort of butt the back end of the vehicle from the side, and it will often misdirect the suspect's vehicle to a stop. you know, into a center divider or off onto the right-hand side of the road. but we haven't seen that yet, and it's probably a little early yet in this low and high-speed chase. back on the highway now as you can see. and there, you know, there's the immediate patrol car behind, and, you know, just keeping pace, keeping track. there's no hurry unless and

until the driver of this vehicle really begins to endanger lives. megyn: and they are in the middle of the day, as are we here on the east coast. so often we see these chases evolving at hour. much tougher to do around rush hour. you can see the highway is relatively empty right now. so often in these chases we wind up seeing the person who's being pursued up on the sidewalks as we did moments ago, up on the median as could still be the case, going the wrong way down a one-way street. that we haven't seen yet, to my knowledge, but he seems to be picking up the pace now a bit, gregg, as they appear to be on a highway but not a major six-laner. they still seem to be passing some residential areas or at least some commercial areas there as we look at what appears to be an office building on the right. >> he just went through a traffic light which was green, so this is probably not your conventional freeway/highway, and there you see went underneath a highway overpass. now it's hard to keep track of him because, once again, he's

returned to a very high-populated, high density looks like, i mean, it could be a downtown area of dallas. and now he's flipped around onto the highway, and there it is from a different vantage point. and again, you know, you're seeing cautious police conduct here which is the right thing to do. megyn: i count three police cars following this guy on this highway. he seems to be going, perhaps, a little faster than some of the cars but not at an extremely high rate of speed. sometimes we see these guys go up to 100 miles an hour, sometimes we see them doing erratic moves on the road which very often results in information that they were on drugs or there was a drinking issue. you know, it's the middle of the day in dallas, texas, and this guy was apparently in trouble with the law. for what, we do not know. they were trying to execute a felony warrant is what we've been told. police do believe this man is armed. dallas police, fyi, are not allowed to give chase unless it

is a known felon, so you don't see this happening that often in dallas. this guy is believed -- or gal, we don't know -- is believed to be a known felon. they were trying to -- >> yeah, aggravated assault. now we're getting some additional information, meg. the man was being served a warrant for aggravated assault, and that led to the police chase. three dallas police officers are following the man who they believe to be armed. so there's a critical fact now that will certainly play into the equation of how to handle this situation. but you're right, some jurisdictions do allow police officers to take more aggressive action to stop a fleeing felon, known felon. others do not. and here you see -- megyn: and look at the rear of the suv, gregg. i don't know why, but it seems to be bouncing up and down a bit, and maybe that's just the road and, you know, the size of the vehicle going up and down, but there seems to be a little motion in the rear of the

vehicle. we'll see whether there's any cause for that other than the road as he continues to speed up and slow down followed by what we counted for three police cars, although there could be more. and at some point they could set up some sort of a roadblock, gregg, although we rarely see that when it involves a major highway. >> the only problem is, you know, this guy's been on so many different highways in such a short period of time, it's hard to know which one he's going to choose next. he can get on and off. you know, the arteries in and around dallas, texas, are fairly frequent, and, you know, you can maneuver in and out, and, you know, you've got to be -- in order to segregate the traffic in advance, you've got to know where he's headed. and that's always a tough one here. megyn: gregg, we want to dip into the local coverage of our affiliate in dallas, texas. >> so we're going to see dallas police aren't going to stop shadowing this man, they're going to try at some point to get in front of him -- 35 south?

>> yeah. let me ask you this as he kind of makes that pass right there and needs to start making some decisions here, he's coming up on the exit for 30, i believe, as he continues on 35 south. you can hit 35, the exit to 45, and as he kind of -- it look like he's going to continue on 35 south, although he is getting all the way over to the right-hand lane. so those lanes would take him 35 south toward waco. sean, we heard some initial reports earlier this was, perhaps, an armed robbery suspect. anything on that? >> um, i am not able to answer that at the moment. what i can tell you is they were attempting to serve an arrest warrant according to my sources for aggravated assault. >> all right. we are now on 30 east headed toward texarkana, through that area -- >> he's on 30 east. he went through the mixmaster. >> yeah. through the mixmaster and looks like he's getting over into the left-hand lanes which will continue on 30 as opposed to getting off by lamar street. so we're looking at now this

suspect being chased, police pursuant in chase of possibly an armed suspect in that red suv that we're looking at heading on 30 east just outside of downtown dallas. to recap for folks who are just now joining us as it's the bottom of the hour, it's thought at this point that these could be armed robbery suspects. police believe the driver is armed. we are now getting new information that perhaps there is a child in this vehicle as well. we know that there are at least two people in the car, the driver and someone who appears to be in the front seat. again -- >> okay, so, the gang unit is holding an aggravated assault warrant against the suspect who shot at the complain plant last week. so we know last week he was packing a weapon. we know that much. >> sounds like as well they're telling me that we may have a female hostage onboard, that perhaps that person who is in the front seat of this car is not necessarily theren o their own -- >> yeah. that's what i was telling you. there's a woman in that car, could be a kidnapping, maybe a child.

trying to confirm that through my sources on the street. >> are they still heading now -- we're still looking at 30 east? >> yeah. >> is that -- and i'm struck by how light the traffic has been because this time of day even you could run into a lot of gridlock in that mixmaster area downtown. but it's been remarkable to see how much room to run that this -- >> you know what? you're absolutely right. sometimes midday in the canyon it is inches per hour. and that it was free sailing today is kind of ironic. >> yeah. >> i mean, we're in the canyon now. we're slipping through, and there's not much traffic. we're moving at a pretty good clip of speed. >> right now we're seeing one patrol car in pursuit, but it's, we're really talking about six patrol cars if sky 4 was to pull back. >> you're talking about more than that. we just, we just got passed by one of the s.w.a.t. suvs and

another squad car, to dallas police are moving around, trying to get in position here. they're calling folk who are working other jobs at this moment in this area, they're alerting folk to the east -- mesquite's going to get a heads up in a minute if they haven't already, he's continuing to head east on interstate 30 at the moment. >> yeah. he is continuing east on 30 at this point, sean. i t looks like concern it looks like, i believe we're past the grand avenue exit. the next destination, of course, mesquite. and as a reminder for folks who are wondering about how dallas police handle this as they head outside their jurisdiction -- >> right now by the baylor medical center area, the exit for -- [inaudible] >> okay. so, and, again, because we're talking about suspects that they believe were involved in a violent crime, they're going to continue to follow this guy, right? >> well, certainly. if, in fact, if, in fact, the woman is in this vehicle as we have just suggested to you and if she was, in fact, shot at

last week according to my sources, there's no way that they're going to back off on this matter. >> and, sean, again, based on the information you have, we're talking about possibly two hostages in the suv, right? >> that's the possibility. that's the possibility. i've got cops all around me here on i-30, some of them are throwing their lights on. we're headed east, we're at the haskell avenue, so we're following dallas police right now in the thick of this chase for this red explorer with one man wanted by police, gang unit holding an ag-assault warrant against him, perhaps a female in that car who was the victim, shot at last week and maybe a child. we believe he is the father of a child that she has. >> okay. our latest update on our location here is i-30 eastbound approaching dolphin -- >> and he's still rolling

straight, correct? >> yeah. they're definitely rolling straight at this point and, sean, looking at that car in comparison to the other cars on the road, we're talking about a chase that's about 70 mile-an-hour. while that is an accelerated rate of speed and, again, you've got choppers in the air, six cop cars behind this guy, this is really a matter of time. this guy isn't getting away anywhere. >> it just depends on, it's going to depend on where it ends and how it ends and what happens in between. that's where we are now. officers who have, some of them who have passed us have jumped off the freeway at various exits. they're clearly trying to make a large perimeter, and some of them are following on side streets that are not on interstate 30 right now just in case he decides to dip south or north. they're trying to run parallel to the chase proper as well as those who are following behind. >> and this is about as tricky as i would think it would get for law enforcement because if you have a fleeing suspect who may be armed and two hostages

including a bibby or a very -- baby or a very young child in that vehicle, i'll tell ya, it's, the choices that offers make would have to be very, very carefully considered. >> right. of course -- megyn: and we continue to watch this. and we want to bring in christopher voss who is a former fbi special agent and hostage negotiator. christopher, thank you for being here. as we learn that now this person on whom they attempted to serve a warrant for aggravated assault this morning but instet took flight in his car may have in the car with him two kidnapping victims, a woman and her child, and he may be related to that child, he may be the father of the child that's in that car. we don't know for sure, but the reports are that this woman he has with him may be the complainant in connection with the warrant attempted to serve on him. how do the agents go about talking this man out of this conduct? >> well, a couple of different things are going on at the same time.

this guy's, obviously, indicating a very strong will to live by fleeing which is a good sign in term of any negotiation because it's far more successful if person you're talking to wants to live. and you will see that many in their -- more in their actions than words. and at the same time if this woman is the person who's the focal point of his anger and his rage, he may also if his emotions get out of control while this is going on, in order to get back at her, he might harm her or even the child. even if it's his child, that's a way for him to emotionally damage her. so they're going to try to balance those two things out at the same time and gently control this as much as they can. megyn: what do you do? i mean, do you point to the safety of the child? obviously, he doesn't have a whole lot of regard for the woman if police believe that he's already guilty of an aggravated assault against her, and he's taken her hostage. >> well, you get eventually to those rational points after you

get a chance to defuse the emotions. very much from the reporting sounds rage-driven at the moment, so their first job is to really defuse the rage, even to simply, if they can get him contained to wear him out. because then the rage itself will wear him out. they don't want to fuel it, they don't want it to escalate. they want it to exhaust him. so if they can exhaust him, they'll have a very good opportunity of bringing this to a peaceful resolution. megyn: would there be an attempt as we're watch anything the day of cell phones, as we're watching this man strive this car along with, perhaps, two victims, two hostages i should say, would there be an attempt to engage in a hostage negotiation? >> well, they need to contain him first. they need to get him stopped first. and so then when they get him stopped, they'll find a way to communicate with him whether they give him a phone, a bull horn, there's -- these days there's quite a number of

devices, they could put a speaker close to him that is brought up by a robot that is both a speaker and a microphone. so they need to get him stopped and contained first, begin to let the situation settle in on top. megyn: how dangerous is it when you look at a situation where he has, you know, it appears to have committed several felonies now, you know, from the original felony that we were being told was aggravated assault, you know, accused of to now a high-speed car chase to possibly kidnapping, what, what sort of volatility would you be expecting behind the wheel of that car? >> well, yeah. this sort of behavior demonstrates impulsive, erratic behavior. that coupled with the fact that he clearly wants to live by trying to escape. so it's very passion-driven, it's very emotion-driven. but if they can, if they can get any sort of dialogue started with him at all, if they can get him to talk, the key is whether or not they get him to open his mouth when they get him contained.

as soon as someone starts to talk, they give you a chance to talk them out. >> what leads them to take hostages? >> you know, it's impulsive. and there's different levels of hostage taking. if this is his child, then in the woman that he committed the assaults against, it's not a hostage in a traditional sense. what they really are is victims. they're victims to be which is a different category in an abduction than a straight hostage that has value for a bargain issue. megyn: and so often there are control issues on and, you know, we are just going by what we're hearing from the local affiliates in terms of the sex of those involves. but there are control issues when it is a man abusing a woman, and there is a relationship between them as there would be if he is the father of her child. one can presume if there is a control issue, he's not going to let her go or, perhaps, the child without a fight. >> yes. possibly. um, you know, instead of -- we refer to them as hypothesis in if a situation instead of a

assumption because you have to test it. you have to engage in the communication situation and find out exactly which way it's going at the moment. megyn: ladies and gentlemen, i want to tell you that we have with us a law enforcement security expert as well, and you heard mr. voss say that it is important to secure the situation first. they've got to get this under control before they can engage in any meaningful negotiation with him. and when these car chases end, there is sometimes that sort of negotiation. it's not always a rush to open up the car doors because the police don't know what they're getting and many this case have been told that this is an armed individual. again, as you've heard, who may have hostages including a young baby or a young child. up next we're going to speak with an expert who can tell us what the decisions will be when it comes to stopping this car, what the options are when you see he's on a major highway with other cars. we've got to take a quick commercial break, and we will be right back with that three minutes away.

megyn: fox news alert, we are watching a police chase in progress right now in dallas, texas, as our information -- according to our local affiliate -- is that a man allegedly shot a gun at his girlfriend within the past few days. the gang unit has the warrant against this man. attempts to execute that felony warrant against him and the man as opposed to vendorring gives -- surrendering gives chase jumping into this car, a redford expedition. we are told he has taken at least one, perhaps two hostages. those hostages are believed to include his girlfriend who was his attempted victim or his alleged victim as well as a young baby or young child who may be the child of the suspect driving the car. this has been going on now for about 45 minutes in and around dallas, texas. he gave chase just after noon dallas time, 1 p.m. eastern

time. we are also told that the girlfriend is in the car and has been described as, quote, in obvious distress. the s.w.a.t. team is nearby, we are told that they are hanging back. they are deciding their plan of action. this car, the expedition, has been in and on major highways and around. he got off the major highway during the commercial break and now appears to be on some more local roads. we want to dip into our local coverage to see if we can learn more. >> west on highway 80. i told you he was going to head back to dallas on 80. i told you. >> so really this guy's making these big loops, went as far out as west dallas, now as far east as mesquite, and he seems to be looping back and in out, you know, out into the burbs -- >> well, the reason for, the reason for that is he does not have a plan. >> yeah, no. no destination. >> he, a, doesn't have a plan, b, i'm telling you, the emotion that's running inside of him right now is like a freight

train, all right? his heart is beating, he's sweating, his eyes are bugged, and he doesn't really have a plan. he's got the woman in this car with him. is he trying to get back to john west, can i get to a sanctuary and barricade? who is she on the phone with? is she talking to his mama trying to get him to stop, the police? we don't know that yet. sheriffs are involved in the case, and i'm rolling right now behind dso. >> one thing we can say is this fleeing driver is making a conscious decision, though, to not get too far from dallas, went as far east as mesquite and then made the decision to head back towards, towards town into a busier, more populated area. seems to have a preference for being on freeways at this point as opposed to surface streets. >> yeah. and continuing on highway 80 west at this point and, i believe, approaching 635, the interchange this as well. >> so headed back towards --

>> yeah. he's still. megyn: as we listen to our local coverage, we want to bring in rod wheeler who's been watching this. rod, what do they need to throw down the strike strips or do something to stop the car? >> that is exactly what they want to do, but it's very difficult. these are some of the most difficult situations. anytime you're chasing a high-speed vehicle and you have hostages in the car, it's not easy making those decisions. so i think what the police are going to probably do is give this guy more time to think to himself what are his options. and that's what he has to think to himself, what are his options. that's the reason, megyn, why this guy has not left far from the area of dallas, the city itself, because he has no plan. he doesn't even know where he's going to go. what he really wants to do is get out of that vehicle and run which would be a good thing for the ohioages, but he's afraid if he does that, he'll get caught by the cops as well. i think the cops are going to

continue to give him as much time as he needs, hopefully he'll get in contact with him, and somebody can talk him into stopping. megyn: right. we are told not only was the woman in the car dry r described as being in obvious distress, but she was also seen to be on a cell phone. we haven't been able to confirm there is a child in the car. we just heard that reported earlier, that it may be their child. we are told now between six and eight marked units are in pursuit. rod, i want to get back to you right after this break because we have to take our commercial break. we're 20 seconds from the break, but i want our viewers to know this man is accused of allegedly shooting a gun at his girlfriend yesterday. he's said to be armed and dangerous yesterday. she's said to be in the car in distress along with, potentially, a child, and this man is wanted now for several felonies as we continue to watch this chase in dallas, texas. we'll be back in two and a half minutes.

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megyn: fox news alert as we continue to watch this car chase in and around dallas, texas. as you can see, a red explorer now taking police on what is almost an hourlong car chase. we are told that he is armed and dangerous and wanted by the gang unit in dallas, texas. we are also told that he has at least one hostage in the car, perhaps as many as two. one hostage said to be a girlfriend of his at whom initial reports suggest he fired a gun yesterday or a few days earlier. this is all unconfirmed right now. these are just according to random, local reports that we are getting. we are not in a position to confirm those, we can only go by what the locals are telling us. there are also reports there may be a baby or a young child in the car who could belong to one or both of the people who are driving and as passengers in that car. we are told that the girlfriend

in the car is in, quote, obvious distress. we are told that the s.w.a.t. team is following him, up to eight vehicles, that they are hanging back for now deciding on their plan of action. he's been running red lights, driving up on sidewalks and appears to be doing loops in and around the city of dallas, heading east to mesquite and back into the city. we are also told, at least some reports suggest, that he is talking to police and may be engaging in some sort of a negotiation to stop the vehicle. and that's about all we know in terms of his state of mind right now other than the speculation that we've gotten from our experts who suggest this man must have a strong will to live because he's given chase as opposed to just surrendering when a felony warrant was attempted to be executed on him today. let's take a listen to our local kdfw coverage for a moment. >> my sources are saying they asked dps not to deploy any more

stop sticks. do you hear what i'm saying? >> right. so they're asking not to -- that tells me, what, that perhaps they're anticipating then that the situation can be ended -- >> they're trying to, they're trying to, you know, bring this thing to a pull over and park and follow our commands to get out, lay down and let it be over with. that's what they're trying to do here. >> and perhaps they think there's a reasonable chance that that scenario -- >> i don't know that they think that yet. i think they're trying to make that happen. if he's expressed a desire, if he says i want to stop but i'm afraid what you're going to do to me, they're saying, look, we're not going to beat you, harm you. stop, obey our commands, get out, and this thing can end, everybody can take a deep breath. but until that happens, you know, the chase is on. >> and, of course, the police department's trying to facilitate that process because, again, we are dealing with what we're being told is a female hostage in this car as well. so not only does this chase need to come to an end for the driver, but it also needs to

come to a peaceful end for that, for that passenger. you can see now from our live pictures from sky 4 heading into the downtown dallas area just passing those signs for all of the different offramps as the highway kind of splits as you head toward downtown. it looks like they're probably going to be heading, you know, north i would say but, again, this guy seems to be pretty comfortable continuing on 30 down into the oakwood section. >> what they're going to do -- listen to me, they're going to try to shut down the entrance ramps to the freeway. do you hear what i'm saying? >> right. >> in the next few minutes, dallas police are going to try to shut down the entrance ramp toss the freeway. so what happens is there's no artery for him to dip off on. you know, he's going to have to run east-west. if they can get that shut down so he can't get up on will rogers to get to 35, he's going to have to roll east-west. >> looks like they're passing 75 at this point, that looks to not be happening, so the options at

this point, you know, really more toward, you know, continuing on 30, you know -- >> the police, the police are pleading for him to pull over right now. >> right. yeah, ironically, they're passing the part of town where dallas police headquarters is located, this guy clearly not getting off to make a stop there. >> they're going about 60 mile-an-hour now. >> i'm sorry, the driver did just get off the road. you can see he took that left-hand exit, i believe that's cesar chavez that he -- >> what exit? >> i believe it's cesar chavez. i'm sorry, irve. yeah, blowing right through the intersection, so possibly -- i believe a right on lamar? >> he's off at irve? >> so maybe she's thinking i'll get to -- he's thinking i'll get to a surface street and, maybe -- >> i'm sorry, to update you, that's griffin street. he's coming into downtown dallas. >> he's going to head right past the fox 4 studios. >> i was going to say, he's

going to be right out front in just a minute. >> he's right outside. >> okay. he's turning left now, sean, so we're off of griffin, and what is that? -- >> that's going to be down there young street. >> let's take a step back here for a moment and look at the pictures here. one more turn down. let's take a step back and look at the pictures here. one more turn right -- >> he's on young street downtown. >> he just turned on to ackard street. it looks like we are at a slow speed right now, possibly going to stop, and of course it looks

like he's pulling into city hall at this point. that large building you see iscity hall. our view at the moment is a little bit blocked as sky 4 tries to reposition itself we can get a better look at what's going on. there we go. on the bottom your screen we have come past city hall, so clearly not stopping. >> he's got his hand out window, can you see that? >> we can see it on our screens. >> he's got at least one hand out the window. >> you wonder -- is he saying give me some space let me pull over. >> if he's got his hand out the window he may be trying to indicate he's trying to end this thing. what the police have to be concerned about, is he trying to give it up or some attempted suicide by cop.

we don't want to speak those things but we have to in this situation. if he's got a hand out the window they will start giving him commands. it looks like we are making a left here going the wrong way on a one-way street if you are familiar with downtown dallas. our vantage point blocked by the buildings with the suspect traveling the wrong way down a one-way street. i believe it's behind the library. >> he's going the wrong way on a one-way street? >> our vantage point is completely blocked. megyn: we are watching a car chase in progress in dallas, texas, as we are told a man on whom police attempted to execute a felony arrest wawrpt gave chase taking with him at least one hostage.

said to be a girlfriend, said to be someone on whom he fired a gun in the last few days. the gang unit is the one that tried to execute the warrant. he has been going in and around circles in the city. the girlfriend in the car is said to be on the phone and in obvious distress as of 20-30 minutes ago. the s.w.a.t. team is following him. you can see he's been going the wrong way on one-way roads at an excess of 0 miles an hour on the highway which is not urn usual but very dangerous. we are told that the police are pleading with him to pull over. we have been told he was planning on doing it. it looks like it's coming to an end. let's listen. >> the gentleman is out on the ground. you can see his hands in front of him. he tossed something away from

him. dallas police officers approaching the suspect and approaching the right-hand side of the vehicle to get the passenger safely out of there. the woman is safe we are being told at this point. dallas police officers have stopped this suspect who they have been in pursuit of. he is face down and handcuffed and in police custody. >> he decided to pull this thing to an end. they were going to deploy the stop sticks one more type. the suspect is in custody and this is a good all clear for the dallas police. you can bet tensions are high for the last hour as police wound from south dallas to crandall up into west dallas, back through the medical district, over into sunny vail,

back into dallas and this thing coming to an end. megyn: kudos to the dallas police who managed to apprehend this suspect without harm to anyone. so as you can see, it does not appear there was a child in that car as the police opened up the back doors and appeared to not reach in. there was, however, a woman as initially reported in that car with him. she was described earlier on as a hostage. and she will be -- she'll be debriefed by the police as well. we were told earlier she was his victim in an attempted shooting a couple days ago. we are led to believe that' the reason the police showed up at his house this morning to execute the felony warrant and that is where this car chase began. you can see it ended in the middle of downtown dallas from the look of it and dallas p.d. has'their man. as we so often say at the end of

these chases, enjoy prison. we'll move on to other news. a fox news alert. we get new signs that our economy is running into serious head winds. welcome to a brand-new hour of "america live." i'm megyn kelly. new housing and job reports painting a bleak economic forecast that stuart varney has been predicting for weeks. first unemployment claims fell by 2,000 last week which was far worse than the 5,000 they were expected to fail. look at home sales, they fell by 2.%. any upward trend we were seeing suddenly stalled. stu, what does this mean? >> reporter: the baseline for the economy's performance, the baseline for the election are those two areas, jobs and housing. both those two areas are getting worse. first of all the jobs picture. far too many people claiming

unemployment benefits. that number, 38,000 should be going down d that number 386 hours should be going down but it's going back up again. the job creation cut in half, millions have left of the workforce. we are on selling 4.4 million homes per year. that's a very slow number. that number is going down even though mortgage rates are about 4%, historically low. so the housing picture. bumping along the bottom and if anything getting worse. that means for a third year in a row early signs of a robust recovery have been dashed. the economy looks like it turned a corner and is weakening all over again. megyn: i heard it reported that sometimes around this time of year the unemployment numbers boy and it's artificial because it's folks allowed to file for unemployment benefits while they

are off. bus drivers who are off during spring break for the kids. to what extent do we credit that with these numbers? >> reporter: that's a very minor factor. it's true in some states school bus drivers when there is a spring break vacation other long summer holidays, they can claim unemployment benefits, but the numbers are very, very small and should not be read into this big picture situation. the employment situation is getting worse, it is not getting better. 8.2% unemployment. 386,000 new faces on the unemployment line last week alone. that's not what you should be getting three years after the end of a recession. megyn: if you look at what happened in this country last summer versus now as we move toward the summer months, is that any predictor of what we can expect? >> reporter: it's somewhat similar. last august we had a downgrade

of america's debt. we lost around triple aaa status. our debt situation is worsening between. we are running out of money. sometime this year we'll have to go back to the well to borrow more money. that's not a good sign, and there is no sign in washington there will be any kind of agreement on deficit reduction. there is an analogy to last year. it looks like we are worsening again. megyn: the republican national committee takes a swipe at the obama administration highlighting how key players in solyndra, fast and furious, the gsa vegas trip used the fifth amendment. could this trend influence voters come november? this multi millionaire firing off allegations of jury mix conduct. we told but this the other day. now one of the jurors has a very interesting take on these accusations. this is brand-new and we'll

bring it to you in "kelly's court." plus, yesterday right here on this broadcast ralph peters got national attention with his firey takeaway on how u.s. leaders have handled the controversy over images of i.s. troops posing with body parts of terrorists who were suicide bombers. today he weighs in on how the la "times" has justified releasing those photos. >> our soldiers out in the front line and our marines are under tremendous stresses. war is not a lady's auxilliary tea party and it's all too easy people comfortable in los angeles, new york or the white house to condemn the troops without context. ♪

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sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get bk to these invoices... whh i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. megyn: new fallout in the wake of photographs that reportedly show u.s. troops in afghanistan posing with the remains of

homicide bombers. would-be murderers disparched to try to kill our men and women in uniform. these images that are two years old and appeared in the "l.a. times." hamid karzai says a quicker exit of the u.s. from his country is the on way to prevent situation like this one. the pentagon has apologized for the photographs taken two years ago and published by the "l.a. times." bawsms their graphic nature we here at "america live" have chosen not to show them. yesterday retired lieutenant colonel ralph peters had some tough words. today he's back and we ared by retired assistant vice chief lieutenant general tom mcinerney for more perspective on this.

the "l.a. times" says the pictures were brought to hem by a soldier who is part of the unit and it was an attempt by him, the soldier to draw attention to the safety risk associated with what he perceives as a decline in leadership and discipline in afghanistan. the "times" says this fulfills its obligation to report vigorously and impartially on all aspects of the american mission in afghanistan. colonel peters, you have been critical of the mission but yesterday were critical of the "l.a. times." given this was their purpose does it change your view of their decision to punr publish the photos? >> the "l.a. times" editors are here is. they did this because their paper is on the rocks and they are trying to push up circumstances laying. i think there is a scandal at the "l.a. times." if this soldier was so concerned about good order and discipline

why didn't he go to the fort bragg inspector general. army inspector generals would have taken care of this. they are not pushovers, they don't cover up. this is somebody seeking publicity. fit is a soldier why -- fit is a soldier -- if it was a soldier, why wait two years. was the soldier a misfit who couldn't measure up to the high stands cards of the 82nd airborne. the rest of the media needs to look into this big time because it stinks to high heaven. megyn: the "l.a. times" is saying they want to draw attention to the safety risk with the the decline in leadership and discipline. does that draw attention to a current issue that needs addressing? >> no, it doesn't, megyn. the point that ralph is making

is the "l.a. times" is the problem. they should be condemned. i have a problem with president karzai's recent comments as i did with secretary of defense panetta and ambassador crocker and general allen. i think they overreacted. this event was two years ago against a suicide bomber killing innocent people. we send these troops out to get forensics. and fingerprint, et cetera. and it's a dirty job, someone takes a picture of them doing it, they weren't deliberately desecrating though they probably should, we shouldn't worry about the remains of suicide bombers but we do. but the fact is now the "l.a. times" two years late when it will have no impact on leadership and good order and discipline couple and make this their rationale. it doesn't make sense and i agree with ralph, something stinks out there.

megyn: when you see the pictures it's not just troops doing their job of the forensics. it is -- they are posing in a way that -- you can argue about whether these terrorists deserve of any respect, their remains included. but it's not in a respectful way i think it's fair to say posing with the remains. you tried to explain to us yesterday what it's like to be a soldier in a war zone and a target of these suicide bombers. >> i never went through anything as tough as what these guys go through. if you want courtesy towards your enemies, if you want to kill america's enemies you send the 82nd airborne. i don't understand courtesy towards the remains of suicide bombers. what's next? funerals and plots at arlington cemetery? yes the soldiers posed with dead body parts. bad taste.

soldiers survive on black humor in terrible situations. this did not even rise to the level of a fraternity prank. because in a fraternity prank sometimes people get hurt. nobody got hurt. these guys unlike the generals who fly back to washington to see their wives, they can't see their spouses, they can't have a beer there will be is no local action except the action you get from ieds. could be deming these soldiers for a stupid immature prank, it was wrong, got it. but condemning these soldiers is scummy. the "l.a. times" edtroars lower than pond scum. megyn: was it wrong for our top military brass to con deputy the soldiers so quickly. what choice did they have, given everything we have seen in afghanistan. the accidental burning of the korans. what choice did they have but to

cop out and say we condiment. you had crocker saying it's morally repug that. you had allen saying it's inconsistent with our values and panetta strongly condemning the conduct. >> they had to say something, but the words they said were too strong. i saw the pictures. there were poses, no question about it. but the real things americans ought to take about is these are the jobs we are make our people do to get iris and fingerprint footprints and prints so we can delineate what terrorists we killed and where they came from, et cetera. it's an important role but we are asking our people to do it. the pictures were not i think if people hadn't seen them were not that graphically posed. there is no question they were to a degree antigens get back -- they had to say something.

but i don't think northeast they needed to use that kind of language as karzai is using. karzai is part of the problem over there. we want to get out there, president karzai, only you are not doing your job so it's taking us longer. i think this overreaction is what i have a problem with. megyn: it's pretty amazing when you see the remains of suicide bombers attempting to kill american troops. the reasons those bodies are in pieces is they decided to do that to themselves to kill americans and the afghan president find the posing for the photographs inhumane, not the suicide bombers inhumane. the search intensifying for a missing soldier as police question one of the last people known to have seen private first class kelly bordeaux and we are

learning disturbing details about that person. stunning developments in the fast and furious investigation. accused ring leader caught on tape involved in a shootout. we have exclusive video of this as we learn he was arrested not once, not twice, but three times and set free each time. new questions about why. >> we could have taken him in and prosecuted him at any time. it's either total incompetence or maybe it's something a little bit more coordinated that the department of justice is not willing to talk about. hey dad. see how the carrots i grow

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>> there may have been sensitive information including itineraries for the president. this will include an ongoing investigation on the secret service agent side. but the ranking number mr. couple cans and i are insisting they round up the women involved in this and make sure we by elimination eliminate any vulnerability as a result of this. as importantly, there is an

ongoing question, were any of these women under 18. if they were there is a separate violation of i.s. federal law. megyn: for those who think this is blown out of proportion, how do you respond? >> perhaps it doesn't warrant the time of fox news and all the other stations but what we are doing is asking the secret service to disprint self, to do its own investigation and we are looking over their shoulder. mr. cummings and i sent this letter. this is the result of a one-on-one meeting. it's to make sure the right things are done, a real change that is permanent to prevent this in the future. but i said there are concerns. when people go abroad if they have sex with somebody under 18,

we passed into lawn some strong laws to make overseas fox trafficking wrong. so what have two concerns. one is federal law, the primary concern is to make sure they do not ever again create a compromising situation that embarrasses america and could eventually endanger the protected persons from the president to the entire cabinet. megyn: we have you on the program and you talk about a number of things that the house oversight committee is doing. i think in the wake of what we have seen recently, the gsa spending a million dollars in taxpayer money while jeff neely is in the tub, now we hear about the secret service. and you have certain people pleading the fifth health. you have got the doj saying we

didn't know, we had no idea it was the atf. there is starting to emerge a theme of a lack of confidence in some of these government agencies and whether we know what's going on in these jobs that are taxpayer fund. to people wondering that, what's your thought? >> i think this is the tip of the iceberg. i said that before. the president was able to appoint 3 years ago literally thousands of political appointees to oversea all the agencies. we always know about the high profile senate confirmed. but there are thousands and thousands of schedule c, lower ranking individuals who are suppose to be part of the day to day oversight and particularly scrubbing the budget, making sure there isn't waste or fraud. so three years into this administration the question is are the wheels coming off because it hasn't been a priority of this administration? priorities have been on

spending, the stimulus, and is that costing us that? you mention fast and furious. fast and furious is something that i think we have to deal with and deal with strongly because it was political appoint hes including the -- political appointees that were at the heart of this botched, failed, wrong-minded investigation. megyn: thank you for being here. all the best to you, sir. >> thank you. megyn: the case of the millionaire playboy found guilty of dui manslaughter gets worse. there is a possible twist in the case of possible juror misconduct and john goodman could walk because of it. the juror in question is defending himself. wait until you hear what he's saying in today's "kelly's court." will people pleading the fifth have any impact on the

president's reelection campaign? as we just discussed, there have been a rash of investigations from fast and furious to solyndra and now the gsa experiencing scandal. we'll look at the possible fallout for the president next. >> on the advice of counsel i respectfully decline to answer based on my fifth amendment constitutional privilege. wanted to provide better employee benefits while balancing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ]

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megyn: congratulating the crimson tide. alabama. this is what happens when they make me do a sports story with no prompter. he's honoring some college football chapels for a spectacular season paints' the alabama crimson tide and they took home their 14th championship. they are being award with trip to pennsylvania avenue. you can tell the prompter kicked in. you can watch it streaming live on foxnews.com. stunning information in the fast and furious investigation. we are learning the main suspect in the government's failed gun running opposition was arrested and released three times.

now the investigators want to know why we would be releasing him. william lajeunesse is live in l.a. with more. >> reporter: agents tell me the atf did not want to arrest acosta because it would have eliminated their chance to get a wiretap and without the wire they did not have the bigger case. so acosta remained free to arm the mexican car -- cartels while under u.s. watch. caught in the act on a government camera firing 10 rounds from this handgun. yet he remained free to traffic thousands of guns to mexico. only after the death of border agent brian terry is acosta's operation shut down. >> you could have taken him in at any time and prosecuted him. it's either total incompetence or maybe it's something more coordinated that the department

of justice is not willing to talk about. >> reporter: investigators suspect the justice department is unwilling to talk about acosta's possible role as an informant. the investigation began in 2009. in 2010 acosta was arrested on this phoenix street. he was released and not charged. in may he was stopped at the mexican border with 74 rounds of ammunition in his car, again released, no charged. in october a surveillance camera captures acosta firing a than gun purchased illegally by an accomplice, sean stuart. police recover shell casings from the shootout. acosta is arrested give released. >> somebody was making disastrous calls on this and it led to the death of a lot of

people. >> reporter: atf phoenix had information that acosta was trafficking fast and furious guns. they had enough to make an arrest and shut down his operation but the agency chose not to. megyn: the republican national committee is hitting the "operation fast & furious" in a new ad. it points out key players have recently been in front of congress defending themselves in high-profile scandals from solyndra to mf global with many of them pleading the fifth. here is a little of that message. >> on the advice of my counsel i invoke the privilege afforded to me by fifth amendment of the constitution of the united states and reflect supply tee klein to answer any questions. >> i respectfully decline to answer based on my constitutional rights.

>> what is your title at gsa. >> mr. chairman on the advice of counsel i respectfully decline to answer based on my amendment constitutional privilege. megyn: is this going to be an election issue? joining me now, bill mcgern and kirsten powers. it just -- it looks bad when you string it together like that. it makes it look like they have something to hide and the attempt about it rnc is to tie that to the obama administration and in some cases it is administration officials like jeff neely. is it effective, bill? >> we have to distinguish between the political and legal. in a legal case taking the fifth doesn't mean you are guilty. when you are president you get blamed for things that aren't necessarily your fault. i was in the white house when katrina hit.

that was something bush got after and for even though many of the decisions were at the state and local level. president obama is harmed because he represents the part why it of government and these stories lend credence to the idea that government is too big and out of control. it's not a narrative that benefits him. megyn: how does it affect the spending debate we are having in this country, and who we want to entrust with our taxpayer dollars. president obama has been arguing we need to hike taxes on the rich and the government can be trusted with that money. people like bill o'reilly have been rail being this saying these are examples of why they cannot be. >> let's be clear on the gsa thing. the amount of money involved is a itans compared to what was wasted in the stimulus. but it creates the impression of government officials out of control. governor romney is calling for a

smaller and leaner government. so i think it feeds what he's trying to say, where president obama is telling us we need to have more government and more government involvement in our lives. i think this does harm him in that way. megyn: kirsten i saw you on o'reilly talking about this last night. you were part of the clinton administration, costs were watched, and gsa is one example. that's true. that's the only agency -- doj got thrown under the bus for cost excesses. but there haven't been that's. but to what extent does that matter to the average american out there thinking, i just don't care. i don't want the risk that another jeff neely is going to go in another bathtub with my money, paid for by me. >> bill and i were disagreeing over something different. over i think whether he should pay taxes or not. separate argument. what you are talking about is

americans have a fundamental distrust of government that's been increasing. at the beginning of obama's term there was a big study that showed it was at its lowest level in a very * long time. it's on gotten worse. so the problem is people -- this is what they think is going on. so whether or not it is happening, i don't know really matters. it is harmful and democrats are the ones who say the government is a good and the government plays an important role in society. so i think there is a little more of an onus when these things happen. megyn: look at that picture. it's so indicative of the problem we have now. >> i think it's so unusual. i traveled so much with the clinton administration and went on the times of trips, the summits and things. this is not normal behavior. megyn: the doj did an

investigation and found they had an outing with a $76 per person lunch and $32 a person for cracker jacks, popcorn and candy bars at a single break. >> i obviously missed out. >> i had some of the same trips as kirsten. i couldn't have somebody buy me a cup of coffee without all this documentation. but at agencies there is a lot less accountability. what makes this damaging is precisely what you said also what kirsten said. this is something people can understand. they can't always understand all the ins and out of a stimulus debate. this they can understand when people are going to a hotel on taxpayer dime it's like officials run amok. megyn: look at the photo again if you will. he has a good point. i get that. i get jeff neely sitting in the

bathtub with the two glasses of wine, bloody marys, i can't tell what they are. the beautiful up with the infinity faucet and i think i don't want to pay any more in taxes if jeff is going to get to it go to vegas. >> we have wasted a lot more money on a lot of important things. i think the iraq war was totally unnecessary and that was a trillion dollars. we are talking about a little bit of money and i'm just telling you, this is not -- when i was overseas on those trips i was working around the clock. megyn: that was you. >> i'm sure i was the only one. megyn: you were in the wrong department. >> i worked with a lot of people in other agencies who are hard working people. i don't want this to be the poster child. poster child. megyn: it's a question of whether the oversight is there that needs to be. coming up after the break. a florida millionaire convicted

of dui manslaughter. now a juror is coming forward. wait until you hear what he's saying. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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megyn: john goodman, the florida millionaire convicted of drunk driving and killing a 23-year-old man may be getting a new trial. an alternate juror accusing the jury of misconduct saying one man on the jury was writing a book about the case during the trial. now that juror has written to the judge a lengthy letter as the judge is considering bringing the jury back into the courtroom to explain themselves. listen to the one accused of writing the book. >> i told him about the other book i was writing and i told him about the noits was making every night. i didn't start the book. everything i told you is what i have got to try to explain to them. i don't see how i did anything that was not correct.

megyn: joining me now david wahl and mark eiglarsh. earlier we had been told this guy was writing a gook during the trial but the name of that book was "the trials and tribulations of a senior citizen getting a date without a car." now it seem the defense is pushing back suggesting the book you were writing during the trial is the book you now admit you were work on, and that's a book about this case. david, does that change things? >> the judge will have to make an independent determination. megyn: where is your facial hair. >> it's gone after five years. >> he's less intimidating. megyn: does that change the case? >> if the judge makes a determination sat juror was

writing a book and the book contain opinion on what was going on, then yes. but the standard of proof is very, very tough. basically the court will have to find that the misconduct involved events outside the court process, a juror talking to a lawyer or witness, going to the crime scene and recreating something or investigating something. this alone probably isn't going to be enough, even if the judge substantiates this allegation. again this is an alternate juror who may be trying to make a name her himself. megyn: herself. now this juror is coming out, the actual juror, not an alternate. he's saying, look, this alternate juror is in her mid-80s. she has an axe to grind because she didn't get to deliberate. she is ticked off, she wants her moment in the sun. i didn't do anything wrong.

lots of jurors are done that, just ask the o.j. jury. >> let's assume he was writing a book about this trial. as i think david suggested that will not cause a new trial. he didn't take that material and somehow have contact with external forces like what's more troubling is the media reports that they allegedly looked at. the book even if he was writing a book about this trial, that will not get a new trial, even if the court thinks that's inappropriate. megyn: if you know you are going to write a book about the case during the case, do you have an incentive to come to a guilty verdict, make it more marketable? >> that's not how the appellate court works. they would need actual evidence that that impacted this juror or theoers and it will fall short of that. megyn: i want to talk to you about that media exposure and

what this guy is likely to get sentenced to. up next. let's see what you got. rv -- covered. why would you pay for a hotel? i never do. motorcycles -- check. atv. i ride those. do you? no. boat. house. hello, dear. hello. hello. oh! check it -- [ loud r&b on car radio ] i'm going on break! the more you bundle, the more you save. now, that's progressive.

megyn: a judge is deciding whether to bring the jurors back in to explain themselves for exposing themselves as this one alternate claims to media coverage. if he doesn't bring them back in the next step is sentencing. he's facing 30 years in prison. now all these captains of industry and close relatives of john goodman have gone into the court and asked for leniency saying that he is a good man, he is not a bad person, and he's a person of integrity and principles. does that work on a judge? >> i can't tell you how many

times personal reference letters help in sentencing cases. he's got hundreds it sounds like. tremendous numbers. the problem he has here is he's a man of wealth and what happened here was -- a college student was killed so the facts of the case are have much against the defense. but for a vehicular manslaughter case, a 30-year sentence in any jurisdiction seems to be extraordinarily high. so i wouldn't be surprised that significantly less than that given the fact that apparently as far as i know he doesn't have prior convictions for these offenses. meg are's a man of integrity and principles. he has been found guilty of leaving the scene of the accident not to mention i adopted my girlfriend to avoid paying the verdict in the civil case. >> and the world is watching the judgment decision. way come back to, had he tried to save or called someone to

help save the college kid, we have been alive. he died -- he drowned as a result of goodman walking away from the scene. i don't know if goodman is a good man. i think the letters are on one side of the scale but on the other side are the facts that are so egregious. i think he will get 20, if not more. megyn: he's in trouble if it comes down to sentencing. coming up, have an iphone or ipad? know with one who does inr? you won't want to miss why a judge allowed a class action lawsuit to proceed against am. there is the cry. get to work. yeehaw! dad, why are you getting that? is there a prize in there? oh, there's a prize, all right. [ male announcer ] inside every box of cheerios are those great-tting little o's made from carefully selected oats that can help lower cholester. is it a superhero?

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>>megyn: what is it in those glasses in the photo? our viewers are sawing they are strawberry liquor drinks. the question of the day. maybe shepard knows. >>shepard: it is two different glasses. >>megyn: you are right. >>shepard: two different glasses. one is one shape a