theory. look at in this. from a high of 76% when he took office, right before, the president's popularity or favorability has dropped significantly. and since then he has struggled to get any better than the low 50s in terms of his favorability rating. look at that. over all these months. and in some of the most recent surveys, the president's popularity is dipping below the voters' approval of his job performance. joining me now with perspective, chris stirewalt, the fox news digital politics editor and host of "power play" on foxnews.com live. chris, i don't know how many times we've talked an -- about on this show, and everybody points out he still remains popular personally with the voters. they're talking about his favorability rating. but now taking an actual look at the favorability rating, and it's not just the fox news poll, it shows that, actually, he's been flatlining on that for years, literally, for a couple

of years. what do you make of it? >> well, he's been flatlined there, you know, you see there at the beginning that sharp dropoff, and that was sort of the fall to earth for people who thought that obama was going to be this moderate, sort of post-partisan healer. he came in and governed left, and he lost those people who were the optimists, the sort of center-right folks who were optimistic. they said, no, this guy isn't who i thought he was. and since then, and we can really take it back to health care if you want to take it back to any single topic, that the president went hard after his opponents, he ran an aggressive, partisan presidency that a lot of people didn't think he would, and it kept him, kept his numbers for favorability which is a cousin to likability very low, or not very low, but sort of stuck there in that plateau. and it's not, doesn't comport with the conventional wisdom, and it also raises the question of what is the wisdom and what is the value for the president of continuing to be so negative

and continuing to be on the attack as this general election gets warmed up. megyn: well, and things are just now starting to get underway in earnest between president obama and mitt romney, and it is starting to get a little bit uglier than it's been. the obama campaign had gone after romney a little bit here and there, but definitely more so in the past few weeks, the thing with the dog and other shots that the campaign has taken at romney. do you expect that to have an effect on those favorability ratings? i would assume those democrats would like to see that stuff. they don't want mitt romney to beat president obama. >> no, they don't, and, you know, the president has made it very clear even on the answer verse ri of the usama bin laden killing, they went negative on romney, they turned it into an attack ad. so they have committed themselves to a tremendously negative approach. now, the president just needs to be more likable than mitt romney, and mitt romney does not have very high scores -- megyn: we have those numbers too. let's look at romney's trend.

go ahead. >> what the president's trying to do is, basically, just be -- as he famously said of hillary clinton -- likable enough. he just needs to be more likable than mitt romney, and figuring that he can push romney's numbers down from that 42% that you see there way down and get romney to, basically, be unelectable. but in the process, and this is the risk for the process, is that in the process of trying to push romney down, he drags himself down because the truth, the inescapable truth of politics, megyn, is every negative attack that a candidate makes draws down his own favorability ratings because voters, especially moderate, persuadable voters, hate negative campaigning. they see the intensely negative approach that the president's taking to this campaign as it relates to romney, they're going to be turned off, and so they're both maybe headed downward. megyn: what do can you make of the fact hen you look at both -- when you look at both men, mitt romney at a 42% favorability rating, on the one hand, mitt romney's just emerged from a

brutal gop primary where we heard a lot of negative things about him from his gop opponents. on the other hand, during the course of that gop primary you had seven, eight, nine candidates at times going on that stage in iowa, florida and elsewhere and spending most of the night attacking president obama. some shots at each other, but a lot of focus on president obama. so he took his fair share of incoming too. >> well, that's true. now, the issue for the president here is this: he is going through stages of trying to consolidate his base, get his supporters back onboard, and part of doing that are these negative attacks to try to counteract what the republicans have been saying about them all the time. now, mitt romney's not going to be estimating in any way of his attacks on obama, but what the president is trying to do is get his base back together by returning fire on romney. but again, the problem, the voters who get to decide. in the our last fox poll there was 8% undecided. those folks may not like to see president obama in such a negative stance trying to counteract the very trend that

you were describing over the past six or eight months. megyn: it just seems like these politicians have to ask themselves is the high road the road to losing, you know what i mean? [laughter] you want to take the high road unless it leads to losing, in which case you'd rather take the low road, i guess. i don't know. we'll see. chris, thank you. >> you bet. megyn: on the republican side, we are less than two hours away from a news conference where newt gingrich will formally bow out of the presidential race today, we are told. the former house speaker will speak to the media at 3 p.m. eastern time in arlington, virginia. he is also expected to throw his support behind the presumptive republican nominee, mitt romney. speaker gingrich won primaries in just two states, although collected a fair amount of delegates, south carolina and georgia, and has a reported campaign debt now topping $4 million. that will be an issue for him. and next hour campaign carl cameron will talk about newt, his money challenges and the upcoming republican national convention.

another fox news report, details on a mistake made by the de a.. a college student bust inside in a massive drug raid in san diego last week was supposed to be released, but agents put the 24-year-old in a holding room and then forgot about him, allegedly leaving him in a windowless cell without food or water or a bathroom for five days. trace gallagher has more live in the l.a.. trace? >> reporter: daniel chong, megyn, says he was at a friend's house celebrating april 20th which is a day that marijuana users set aside to smoke pot. the next day the dea raided the house, took him and eight others down to a local dea office where there were five holding cells. he was questioned and then told he was free to go. he was even offered a ride home by one of the agents, but instead he was placed into one of those holding cells for almost five days. as you said, no food, no water, no human contact. he says he screamed and pounded

on the walls, no response. he could hear people coming and going, but nobody came to him. he says he was forced to drink his own urine and later ate this white powdery substance he found in the sell, turned out to be methamphetamine. he finally decided to take his own life, took his glasses, busted them with his teeth, swallowed some of the glass and tried to carve his arms. here now is daniel followed by his attorney. listen. >> in pitch black trying to write, sorry, mom, but i couldn't even aim, so i gave up on that one. >> screamed hundreds of times for help. he began to hallucinate. he relates that he began to dig into the walls thinking that he could get water that way. >> reporter: when agents finally discovered him, he was nonresponsive. he spent three days in intensive care, his kidneys nearly failed.

the dea, they admit they lost him and they're investigating them. beyond that, they've said nothing about this at all. his attorney, you might imagine, megyn, they are going to file a lawsuit in federal court. megyn: wait, do we know how this happened, how they forgot about him? >> reporter: we don't know how it happened because the dea hasn't commented. they're saying they're investigating it, and they have no idea how he got lost in the system or lost in the cell which is a small room for five days. that's what we're waiting for the dea to comment on. so far they've not explained any of this except to say, yes, we did lose him, yes, we're investigating. megyn: unbelievable. trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. megyn: wow. we are also learning new details today about the secret and service prostitution scandal, agency officials submitting a 24-page written response to a congressional committee, and that response answers some key questions about what went on in the days leading up to president obama's visit to colombia last month steve seven tanny live in

washington with more. >> reporter: congressman peter king said none of the prostitutes involved in that secret service scandals acquired any secrets or compromised national security. now, it all happened last month just before a trip by president obama to cartagena, colombia, most of the secret service agents stayed at the el carribe hotel, and that's where the scandal came to light. the secret service says it has interviewed ten of the twelve prostitutes so far, all ten said they were paid by the agents, and none of them were involved with any terrorist organization or drug cartel. according to "the washington post," two of the 12 agents accused were supervisory criminal personnel, three of them were snipers and three were on a counterassault team, all very highly-trained, specialized security detail. now, their careers in the agency ranged from two years to 22 years of service. all the agents were asked to take lie detector tests.

nine have taken but three have refused, including that one supervisor who's refusal to pay the price demanded by a prostitute brought this whole scandal to the attention of the u.s. 'em embassy in colombia ine first place. janet napolitano saying the secret service has found no evidence that its agents hired prostitutes on a trip to el salvador last year. three different house and senate panels are looking into this matter, megyn? megyn: steve, thank you. >> reporter: you bet. megyn: you may have heard the troubling new jobs report out today. what looks like a shop drop in -- sharp drop in hire anything the month of april. up next, the story behind the numbers and why parts of this story are even worse on that the report suggests. plus, president obama caught a lot of flak over his apparent bow to the chinese premier two years ago, but now china's demand for an apology over a chinese dissident who was hiding in the u.s. embassy may pose an even bigger problem. should we apologize, or should

the u.s. stick to its guns on this? we'll debate. and the tweet from the president's campaign getting a lot of attention today. it says there are no red or blue states, just the united states. with the president's face in the middle. is the obama campaign trying to push back against charges that the president is not a great uniter? we'll have a fair and balanced debate. >> the pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states; red states for republicans, blue states for democrats. there is not a liberal america and a conservative america, there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] [ male announcer ] the inspiring story

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visitor from carrying concealed weapons outside of the republican national convention in august. mayor bob buckhorn and others expressing concern about people carrying guns at such a large, politically-charged gathering. but in a letter to buckhorn, the governor, rick scott, wrote, quote: well, there are some troubling new jobs numbers out today. the nation's leading payroll processer,adp, says u.s. companies added just 119,000 jobs in the month of april. that is a significant decline from an initial projection of nearly 200,000 jobs, and it's the lowest in seven months. the news even causing stocks to open in the red this morning. and our next guest says parts of this report are even worse than the raw numbers would suggest. joining us now, matt mccall,

president of penn financial group. what do you meansome. >> well, you break down these numbers and, obviously, only 119,000 jobs created according to adp, going in the absolute wrong direction -- megyn: in the private sector. >> worst that we've seen in seven months. we've seen over the last couple of months weave dramatically turned in the wrong direction. we break down these numbers, we see construction lost 5,000 jobs, manufacturing lost 5,000 jobs. of those 119,000 created, 123,000 came from service which typically is not going to be leading -- megyn: wait, that's too many -- you say of the 119 created, 123,000 came from service, that's too many. >> oh, no, we lost some in other areas. construction and manufacturing go the opposite direction, knocking that number down. so, basically, all jobs created came from service industry which is not what we'd like to see to have a robust economy -- megyn: but do we trust this adp

report? they say it differs from the official report we'll get from the government on friday, and then there was a report out saying, you mentioned the manufacturing sector, a different report says that actually expanded at the fastest pace in ten months in april which contrasts with the adp report that says manufacturers lost 5,000 jobs. >> new orders for factory goods suffered their biggest decline -- megyn: how are people supposed to make sense of this? how do we know what's true? i've asked this before. >> when you wake up in the morning, how do you feel about this economy? megyn: still tired, and i could use another hour on two. >> i felt the same way this morning, i was at a late hockey game last night. [laughter] honestly, did you make more money than last year, are you spending more money, how do you actually feel? is what's the confidence you have in the government and the economy itself? typically, what i get is not darn good at all. megyn: steve moore of "the wall street journal" was on fox earlier saying what we have right now is a, quote, jobs recession.

it's not an overall recession, and if you look at the adp numbers over the past six, seven months or so, you can see it. i don't know if we have this graphic, but in october they created 142,000 in the private sector. november/december it was up around 226. then 182 for january, 228, 201 and now down 100,000 to 119. so it does seem like since early this year we're going in the wrong direction. is that attributable to just a blip? is it, you know, do we expect it's gone down a couple months, it's going to go back up a couple months? >> well, you know, the fed when they came out the last couple of weeks, they expect a slowdown, we had a very warm winter, so a lot of hiring was at the beginning of the year, and they expect it to pick up the second half of the year. to me, i follow trends. very easy to trend this, obviously, going in the wrong direction, and when you have the economic numbers behind this, megyn, showing things are not getting any better, where does this job hiring come from? so i'm very concerned with the economic numbers getting worse,

we have the potential of the bush tax cuts expiring at the end of the year and a lot of other tax changes that could be happening, where is the incentive for a small business and large business to go out there and bring on new employees at this time? i do not see it happening. so what would be the catalyst for companies to start hiring again is the question i would ask the fed and anybody out there who's bullish, and i don't know how they can answer that. megyn: now they're saying, okay, 119,000 jobs created in april, we need at least 150-170 to get the economy, to keep it sustained? >> to truly have a robust, you need closer to 200,000 jobs created which'll be the number that comes out on friday. the estimates are 150-160,000 jobs created which is still below the number needed. we're not talking about 3 or 4% growth, we're talking 2-3% gdp growth which is pretty much stagnant coming out of the recession that we had. me, i just don't see where the jobs are coming from. we're losing jobs in

construction, manufacturing, and the only thing holding us up right now is service jobs. that is extremely troubling for the long term of our economy. megyn: if you talk about the gdp, i think they said the first three months of the year it was 2.2% which is too low, right? but these job creation numbers from adp for that period are much higher than they were for april. so if they stay at this level, april, may, june, will it have a corresponding effect on our gdp? could we be talking about gdp lower than 2.2%? >> we could easily see that. and a lot of people differ between saying whether those numbers are a leading or lagging indicator. i look at it pretty simple, the fact is the trend is going the wrong way. we had 2.2% growth in our first quarter. if job trend continues moving lower, even stays where it is, this number, there's no way we get close to that 2.2% growth that we saw in the first quarter. don't forget, we had 3% growth in the last quarter of 2011, and the gdp number, the growth for our country, is also going in

the wrong direction. all these numbers are going down. i don't see where the silver lining is with this. megyn: that's the engine that keeps us going as a country. matt, thank you. well, president obama's declared the light of a new day breaking in afghanistan, and already some political writers are asking if president obama is risking the kind of mission accomplished moment that haunted president bush. we will speak with the man who advised the top military brass on the afghanistan war and find out what he thinks we have accomplished. general jack keane is here. plus, may day mayhem. some occupy protests, exploding into riots. businesses vandalized, owners hiding behind store counters. have we seen the last of this?

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megyn: well, we are getting a

new look now at some of the most chaotic and violent moments during yesterday's so-called may day protests. dramatic video showing some of the worst scenes out of oakland, california, where police arrested at least 30 people. dozens of protesters accused of throwing glass bottles and even burning a police car. trace gallagher has more live from l.a.6789 trace? >> and really, megyn, up and down the west coast it was ugly and dangerous. in fact, let's begin up in seattle where protesters were actually dressed in the black, they were using bats and sticks to break window on cars and storefronts, and by last night seattle police had seized, get this, 70 incendiary devices including dozens of molotov cocktails. police say they would have had a lot more arrests, but the people causing trouble took off the black clothes to blend in with the crowd. here's a resident, listen.

>> it's annoying. really? you know, some kids doing this to prove a point. i don't really understand how my car is proving a point. >> reporter: yeah, right. what did i do? in portland, clashes between police and protesters, protesters trying to drag their comrades out of the way, yet the bicycle police and the horse police, look at the tear gas there. that was in portland, at least a dozen arrests there. no word of major vandalism, but, boy, if you go down the coast to san francisco, a much different picture because the protests there turned very violent. some 200 people actually stormed a building owned by a church. you see that. there were people on top of the buildings throwing bricks and pipes at police officers on the ground. police for a time gave up trying to get those protesters out of that church building. they eventually did take that back. listen, now, to the police. >> there were acts of violence against officers who were here on the scene as well as some of

the demonstrators. one demonstrator was seriously injured yesterday. in the light of that, you know, it was felt that the operation needed to be initiated in order to minimize any impact to the public. >> reporter: shops and cars were also vandalize inside san francisco and directly across the bay in oakland, man, oh, man, look at the clashes there. police and protesters, police using flash grenades, wrestling people to the ground. a police car in oakland was actually torched. you hear in the background police saying, "get off the streets, stay off the sidewalk." it turned ugly, at least 25 arrests in oakland, so up and down the west coast may day occupy protests very, very ugly and violent, megyn. megyn: unbelievable. that video of them throwing bricks off the top of that building, and it looks like we caught on camera one person on the receiving end, i mean, that could be potentially deadly. wow.

trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. megyn: well, dramatic new video showing a deadly so-called duck boat crash on a u.s. live. the footage could be a key part of the investigation and the evidence as this case goes back to court. terrible situation. and president obama's re-election team last night tweeting this image. see it here? it reads no blue states, no red states, just the united states n. three minutes the possible political message behind this message. >> the pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states; red states for republicans, blue states for democrats. there is not a liberal america and a conservative america, there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] are you receiving a payout from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today.

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megyn: fox news alert, we are just getting word from an israeli newspaper that the israeli defense force is calling up six battalions of troops, and they are sending them to the nation's borders. that is between 2,000 and 6,000 soldiers. another 16 battalions currently on standby, we're told. experts say the plan to call up reserves is due to increasing tensions on the egyptian and syrian borders. we will go lye to jerusalem -- live to jerusalem on the breaking news top of the hour. stay with us for that. there is not a liberal

america and a conservative america, there is the united states of america! [cheers and applause] the pundits, the pundits like to slice and dice our country into red states and blue states; red states for republicans, blue states for democrats. but i've got news for them, too, we worship an awesome god in the blue states, and we don't like federal agents poking around in our libraries in the red states. [cheers and applause] we coach little league in the blue states and, yes, we've got some gay friends in the red states. [cheers and applause] we are one people, all of us pledging allegiance to the stars and stripes, all of us defending the united states of america! [cheers and applause] megyn: well, that was barack obama at his star moment at the democratic national convention back in 2004 talking about a united states of america, united america at that convention. but a picture posted to twitter by the president's re-election

team is raising some eyebrows, even though it has the same message. it echoes the president's speech. it reads, there are no red states and blue states, just the united states, with president obama's face superimposed in the middle of the country. the president and his re-election team have been hammered recently for running what many believe is a polarizing campaign. so is the obama campaign worried that the divisive criticism is sticking? and is this picture an effort to push back against that charge? joining me now for a fair and balanced debate, monica crowley and julie ro begin sky, both are fox news contributors. yes! ri begin sky. i nailed it week! >> did you practice that all week? megyn: okay, relief. when we were watching the sound bite, we were sitting here, and monica was watching it and what did you say? >> i said, what happened to that guy? where's that guy? we haven't seen that guy really since 2008. that was a 2004 speech. 2008 -- megyn: did you find that

uplifting? did you find that uplifting? >> i did. i think most americans did. nobody who he was in 2004, and to hear that kind of unifying message from some unknown senator coming out of the state senate in illinois was remarkable. that was the speech that launched him into national prominence. megyn: that kind of message helped buoy him into office. >> he's been trying but, i mean, he's been obstructed every step of the way in d.c. this is not somebody who came in saying i want a divisive america -- megyn: but do you acknowledge a change? >> i acknowledge that he tried his best to work with the republicans in congress. i acknowledge that mitch mcconnell said his number one priority was to deny barack obama a second term, and i acknowledge barack obama's finally doing what he thinks is right and not necessarily what the republicans -- megyn: i mean, the point in the introduction was does the new tweet by the re-election campaign, trying to get back to that message, you know, is it a

day late and a dollar short? are the american public likely to believe that now? >> no. i think the message is shopworn and old because now he does have a record. this is a man who had huge democratic majorities in the congress in both houses for his first two years. he was able to get done whatever he wanted -- >> no, he didn't. >> so the unifying message of 2004 and 2008, i think, has dissipated because when you see the record over the last few years, megyn, you see a man who is run on dividing by class, by gender, by race. he hasn't united this country at all. in fact, he needs the division -- megyn: think about it, because you saw that message, we played it a few times of the president, then-senator at the dnc back in 2000. take a listen to some of the things he said while president. >> i wasn't born with a silver spoon in my mouth. michelle wasn't. but somebody gave us a chance. just like these folks up here

are looking for a chance. this congressional republican budget is something different altogether. it is a trojan horse. it is thinly-veiled social darwinism. my plan says we're going to put teachers back in the classroom, construction workers back to work rebuilding america -- [cheers and applause] and then you've got their plan which is let's have dirtier air, dirtier water. who are these 50 million americans? many are somebody's grandparents. some are middle class families who have children with autism or down syndrome. these are the americans we'd be telling to fend for themselves. >> what do you guys expect him to do? he's got the entire republican party, mitt romney running around trying to take him out because he's presumably the republican nominee, both houses of congress, their leadership trying to take him down. he's got no choice but to fight

back. there were democrats like me who were very frustrated because i felt he was bending over backwards trying too hard to be accommodating and not hard enough to define himself and democratic messages. it's about time. he's saying, look, bottom line is i tried, i really tried to be a uniter, i really did. these guys obstructed me every step of the way, now i'm in a re-election campaign, of course he's got to define himself. of course he's got to say what makes him different from mitt romney. megyn: but in doing that, does he undermine the very thing that people believed made him special? >> yeah. and made him different, and what he sold himself on which is that he'd be some sort of transcendent guy -- megyn: and don't you think americans are thirsty for that? >> sure. and that's why one of the big reasons why he got elected in 2008. look, obama has a real problem now because unlike 2008 where he could run on that message, number one, he's got a record. and number two, unlike last time where he was just a candidate, now he's the president seeking

re-election, and the president is supposed to remit all american -- represent all americans. and he has spent so much time demonizing americans whether it's the 1% or banks or the oil companies or the oil speculators, i mean, you name it, he has drawn divisions every place he can -- megyn: the question is he more divisive, or is he more of a uniter? >> i think -- look, george bush in 2000 talking about how he's a uniter, not a divider, he was going to unite the country. the country was incredibly polarized by the time bush left. you can't argue that it was. every president says that because that's what the country purportedly wants. then they get into reality, and they see the opposing party -- megyn: it's a good point. is it possible? is it possible in 2012 to put a man or woman in the oval office and actually have them be a uniter? >> i don't think so because i think this country, unfortunately, is so polarized and politicized, we live in a 24-hour media culture where you

constantly have people like monica and i going on tv -- megyn: your fault. >> you know what? there are people going out there who are trying to draw distinctions between the two parties whether it's the politicians, the pundits, the reporters, everybody, and at the end of the day these guys need to define themselves the way they define themselves is by defining the other guy as being different from them. megyn: yeah. quickly. >> you look at the senate, the house, you're seeing a real dearth of moderates, moderate republicans and democrats are all going by the wayside, and so now you've got conservatives, and you've got the far left and, you know, i think you're right, i think we're faying a very -- facing a very -- megyn: by the end of in the year, we're going to have these debates with you way over there. >> we get along really well. [laughter] megyn: thanks so much. pleasure, as always. china is now demanding that the united states apologize over the help we provided to a chinese dissident. he ran into our embassy, now he's out of the embassy. they want us to apologize.

after president obama has hammered china on human rights, should we apologize? remember this infamous moment? this got the president in trouble. is his foreign policy on this issue in trouble once again? and one woman's trash is another's jackpot. the judge issuing a ruling in this high-profile case involving a million dollar lotto ticket. kelly's court looks at the evidence and renders its own judgment today. ♪ this at&t 4g network is fast. hey, heard any updates on the game? i think it's final seconds, ohh, shoots a three, game over. so two seconds ago... hey mr. and mrs. harris, where's kevin? say hi kevin. mom, put me down. put...the phone...down. hey guys. did you hear... the choys had their baby? so 29 seconds ago. well we should get them a gift. [ choys ] thanks for the gift! [ amy and rob ] you're welcome! you're welcome! [ male announcer ] get it fast with at&t. the nation's largest 4g network.

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we work wherever you work. now, that's progressive. call or click today. megyn: 1:45 here in the east, and we are tracking a developing story right now from china as that country demands that the united states apologize for the help we gave a chinese dissident after he escaped custody over in china. this guy hid out at the u.s. embassy, and now he wants to get

asylum in the united states. sources say america has nothing to apologize for. now, complicating all of this is the controversy that came up when president obama bowed to the chinese premier two years ago. some are questioning whether that is indicative of the relationship we have with china and whether as a practical matter we're going to have to apologize for this. joining me now, mark hanna, a former aide to john kerry and then-candidate barack obama's presidential campaigns and david webb, host of the david webb show and co-founder of the tea party 365. so the guy goes into the u.s. embassy over there, he reports on the forced abortions and the forced sterilizations, he's a human rights guy in china. we give him, we let him come in. they're ticked off at that. now we let him go out because hillary clinton was about to show up, not the ideal photo op, sent him to the hospital. now we don't know what we're going to do with him, but china wants us to apologize, mark.

what should we say? >> look, i don't think america will ever or has ever apologized for defending its interests and values abroad. now, there is a state department person on the record who has said, look, we did nothing wrong here. we abided by international protocol which is something that the obama administration does take very seriously -- megyn: and that's bold for a state department person to go that far. we did nothing wrong. >> with oh, yeah. we did nothing wrong, so we have nothing to apologize for. that aside from the technicality, if there were to be any apologize coming from the administration, the only thing i could imagine is something, you know, having to do with sort of picayune, diplomatic protocol, and i don't even think that would occur. but it's not for me, for david or yourself to figure that out, i think those discussions are happening now. i know hillary clinton's on the ground over there. megyn: are we likely to do -- i mean, publicly i think most americans are like why would we apologize to them for letting their dissident who was trying to raise an issue about forced

abortions go to u.s. embassy, but the realities of our relationship with china finish. >> well, that's where it comes in. everyone remembers the generals who said let's teach america a lesson about a year ago. america has nothing to apologize for here. we're talking about a communist dictatorship masquerading as a capitalist storefront that sells its forced labor product toss the rest of the world. we borrow 40 cents on the dollar from them. that's the danger, that's why admiral mullen said our debt and the associated issues is the biggest threat to our security. china's in a position, they're buying up resources, they're buying up oil, rare earth minerals, they're using it to support their communist, socialist policies and country. america projects freedom for all. if we apologize, we project weakness, be that's not -- and think about the rest of the world that looks at us. afghanistan, where the president just left. for those that want freedom, does the u.s. bow metaphorically or politically or diplomatically to every night? megyn: would we will apologize

for this type of situation when human rights is such a terribl issue for china? >> sure. there's no doubt in anybody's minds that the economic reforms of the chinese government have not been met by the political or social reforms. megyn: forcing women to get abortions over there -- >> no kidding. isn't it luxurious that in america we have, you know, tea partiers out there protesting because government is too big and occupy wall street because corporations are too big. >> it's probably happening inside china much more stark -- megyn: shouldn't we be doing something about it? john bolton came out with a piece, the title of which is "time to interfere: stop ignoring rights in china." the president was asked about this at his press conference, and he said, look, whenever we talk to china, we raise the issue of human rights. but is it doing any good? >> raising the issue is like a strongly-worded letter from the u.n. written in bold, it has about the same effect. and john bolton says diplomacy is about choices.

sometimes they both are bad choices. so which is the stronger choice for america going forward and for the world? there's a time to stand up and say, look, we're bound by debt to them. they own too much of our treasure -- megyn: how vocal can we be? >> at which point do we choose that america has to be that shining city on the hill versus we will kowtow to everyone who has influence? there's a time to project. that's important -- megyn: is this that time? the economy is really hurting. is in the time? >> sure, no the, there's no doubt most americans are concerned about the economy, but this is a lot bigger than one activist in china. human rights has been a major concern for the united states, and i think the best way for america to address it is to continue to increase its global standing in the world which it has done under obama's leadership -- [inaudible conversations] >> what exactly is global standing when you've got a fact that america is the last best hope on the markets, our economies are bound together, so it's not such an easy market -- megyn: quickly, mark.

>> look, we can reluctantly engage in this relationship with china and ask them to reluctantly engage with us because of our economy and our financial strength. but isn't it better to have the pride and prestige of these countries and the people living within these countries -- megyn: no, last word. i gotta go. good debate. david and mark, thanks so much. up next, the story behind the new video showing a boat crash that killed two people. trace gallagher in three minutes on what we're now learning. and when president bush used a brief shot of the trade towers on 9/11 in a 2004 campaign ad, he caught the full wrath of the mainstream media. now some critics are wondering at how those same media are reacting to president obama's use of bin laden's death in his own re-election ad. stay tuned. hey dad. see how the carrots i grow

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megyn: we are getting a new look at a horrific tour boat crash on the delaware river that ended in the death of two tourists in 2010. we should warn you, this may be difficult to watch. about 40 people were left stranded on the tiny duck boat. you know these things, they take you out, they take you around the city after they go on the ocean. look at this. after the captain shut down the engine thinking there was a fire leaving everyone onboard helpless to an oncoming barge. the new video was apparently shot from a never-before-seen angle of the crash, and trace gallagher has more live from l.a. >> reporter: yeah, the video really is hard to watch, but you can bet this will be the key piece of evidence when this goes to court next week. this was actually a surveillance camera at the delaware port authority taken along the side of the river. you look at this thing, and look at the water, how calm it is. play in the thing, look at the water, and you can see there's only two boats out there, right? there's the duck boat, and there's the barge. you can see the deckhand, he's on the bow of the boat, the only

one that's facing toward the barge. everybody else is facing forward. so here comes the barge, at the last second you'll see the deckhand notices it's getting too close. what does he do? he jumps in the water, he gets off. another passenger notices, okay, it's time to get out. he jumps out, the other 40 are still there. it's pushed for a while, and then the barge just crushes this thing, megyn, and drags it underneath with almost all 40 of the passengers still on this thing. i mean, they had to drag this thing up from the bottom. two hungarian students who were with a church group touring philadelphia were killed in this, and again, the thing went straight to the bottom. remember, they're on land and sea, the buck boats. -- duck boats. a number of others were injured. man, this thing goes to court next week, and they're expecting some bigtime compensation for the victims -- megyn: why didn't the barge see them? >> reporter: that's exactly the question, why didn't the barge see them, and the barge cap pain says they just --

captain says they just didn't. but you look out at the water, there were two boats on the river at that time. two. megyn: unbelievable. that is disturbing. trace, thank you. >> reporter: okay. megyn: we have two breaking news stories just ahead. first, more from israel on why it just called up thousands of soldiers and sent them to the borders of egypt and syria. we also just got new reaction from the drug enforcement agency to a story we did at the top of the hour. a college student left in a holding cell for five days with no food, water or bathroom. why? plus, the obama campaign getting attacked over an ad for his new slogan, forward. a favorite of socialists, but it also focuses on the economy. good idea? we debate. [ woman ] oh, my gosh -- it's so good! [ kristal ] we're just taking a sample

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right at your fingertips. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. try our easy-to-use scottrader streaming quotes. it's another reason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. my new apartment isn't th far away. it's 4.2 milesway ! with this droid razr... motorola... verizon 4g lte... video... skype. you're gonna get lost. this has gps. well, that makes me feel better. me too. i'll go get two from the back. okay. this mother's day, get the droid razr by motorola. only $99.99. the lowest price ever. verizon. megyn: fox news alert new questions after an unannounced

presidential visit to afghanistan. many are asking if he's risking his own "mission accomplished the" moment. president obama marked the one-year anniversary of usama bin laden's death. he painted a picture of a war ending. more than 2 1/2 years before the final u.s. troops are scheduled to leave. >> the tide has turned. we broke the tall banls' momentum. we devastated al qaeda's leadership taking out over 20 of their top 30 leaders. one year ago from a base in afghanistan our troops launched the operation that killed usama bin laden. the goal i set to defeat al qaeda and deny the chance to rebuild is now within our reach. megyn: but just 90 minutes after this speech this was the scene in the afghan capital.

a deadly taliban attack targeting a foreign housing compound. their spring offensive said to begin in just hours. general jack keane is a fox news analyst. you have been to afghanistan several times including recently and have been vocal about the situation there. the president seems to be saying we made significant progress, devastated al qaeda's leadership, are in reach of defeating al qaeda, but is sticking to his withdrawal time frame. what say you? >> we have made significant progress with the surge forces. we largely defeated the taliban in the south and southwest where the surge forces are. but we have a lot of challenges in front of us. they are driven by another decision the president made which is to pull those surge

forces out prematurely in the minds of general petraeus and the commanders who are there. those surge forces are coming out by september. they want those surge forces to be used in the east to accomplish the same devastating attack on the taliban they have used in the south and southwest. while we have 68,000 forces remaining, there is going to be a fair amount of risk associated whether we'll be able to accomplish the same thing in the east as we did in the south and southwest. the president is absolutely accurate about the afghan security forces, they have made huge progress and we are beginning to transition to them. but i also know what the size and scale of that force will be post 2014 is being debated in washington, d.c. and there is a lot of talk on the table that we'll not fund the 300,000 afghan security forces and we'll bring them down to 230,000.

that makes no sense in the face of the fact we are pulling most our forces out as well. megyn: the question is whether this moment for the president in afghanistan could turn into a mission accomplished moment, that was when president bush went over to iraq and declared the end of major combat missions in iraq and it turned out not to be the case. does president obama risk that same reconsult when he goes over there, says he what says and then leaves according to this timetable that he set up that you and many of the generals on the ground have been very critical of? >> certainly. because the timetable is arbitrary. it's not based on conditions on the ground. the enemy truly has a vote. no one anticipated saddam hussein would fight to take his

regime back. the one thing about that speech that is so significant is the fact that the signed the strategic partnership agreement with karzai. this is the deal. it adds permanence to the u.s.-afghan relationship post 2014 and it tells all the stakeholders inside afghanistan and out that afghanistan remains u.s. national interest. that's a loud message for the taliban to receive because their propaganda is the u.s. is gone, they are washing their hands of this, we'll have our way with afghanistan again much as we did in the past. so the afghans wanted this have much. in the summer of last year they had a council of all the political leaders in stance * come together in one place. the major proposal that came out of that, is that they should agree in writing for a long-term

relationship. you can understand how critical this is for the people in afghanistan, it's critical to the taliban, pakistan and iran that we still mean business. megyn: how does that work in light of the president's announcements about the troop withdrawals. here is a sample of what he said on that score last night. >> international troops will continue to train assist and fight alongside them when needed. but we'll shift into a support role as afghans step forward. as we do, our troops will be coming home. last year we removed 10,000 u.s. troops from afghanistan. another 23,000 will leave by the end of the summer. after that reductions will continue at a steady pace with more and more of our troops coming home. megyn: he's giving them the numbers but we signed a partnership. is the partnership enough to deter the taliban? >> the document itself no.

but it sends to everybody in the region that we are committed. we have to back that up with action. here what is we are concerned about. the president is talking about the stay behind force. he mentioned a couple missions, they are going to provide training and counter-terrorism. our concern is this. the generals know what that stay behind force should be in terms of the missions i'd should perform. that number is probably going to be 20,000. but don't hold me to that. when general alston made that recommendation in iraq at 26,000, we wound up with no forces. now we have political turmoil in iraq. so clearly the on-scene commanders and others close to the situation in afghanistan are concerned about what will that stay-behind force be? most of us believe there will be a stay-behind force but it should be of sufficient scale and purpose to accomplish the

missions that the generals believe need to be accomplished to sustain the gains we made and not to squander those gains because we are not willing to keep another 10 or 15,000 force there and meet the requirements that are obvious to people in the know. megyn: sustain the gains we already made. there are risks to the president politically if that does not happen. always a pleasure speaking to you. thank you so much, sir. see you soon. president obama used last night's speech to mention usama bin laden's death. it was made only one-year anniversary of his killing. in a week where questions are coming up about how that event is playing into the president's reelection campaign. back in 2004 president bush faced backlash after he used a

shot in a campaign ad. how have those same media outlets greeted the president's message about usama bin laden which he turns against mitt romney. we'll speak with some of president bush's own team about what happened then and what is happening now. we are tracking a story from israel. a new report just out says israel's defense force just called up six what tallons and israel is sending these troops to its borders. the latest report also says another 16 about talayans are -- another 6 battalions are on standby. a live report from our jerusalem bureau in moment.

the dea just issued a mea culpa and how after a california college student is left in a police holding cell for five days with know supplies, nothing. william herman, the dea special agent in charge says he is troubled by the treatment of daniel chong and extends his deepest apologies. he was taken into custody after a raid on a house he was staying in. but he was forgotten about in his cell. he was forced to go without food, water or a toilet, even after he was told he would be able to leave. sherman says this is not indicative of the high standard to which he hold his employees. and is' investigating why this young man was not released. it's alleged this city official used taxpayer dollars to pay for

horses and homes. plus team obama unveils a new campaign slogan. we'll have a fair and balanced debate comparing this latest slogan to others we have heard. >> we can't wait until gas is skyrocketed more and people are desperate. we need to start making those investments now. an america built to last is one where we are supporting scientists and researchers. or we can fight for an economy that works for everybody. an economy that's built to last. or are we better off when every one gets a fair shot? more than 150 million professionals

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megyn: new developments on a stunning story of political corruption in dickson, illinois.

long-time controller stole $63 million. investigators say she used the money to stock her farm with horses and three homes. all of which she allegedly bought with stolen city funds. wow! >> virtually every republican has decided to just say no to anything the president proposes. >> republicans are getting a rap for the party of no. >> our top political priority over the next two years should be to deny president obama a second term. megyn: new reaction to a web video which appears to be the obama campaigns latest slogan.

forward. it comes as the president will hold what they call the first official rallies of 2012. this is not the first obama slogan floated. political writers americans have heard at least 7 others. here is a sample. >> i'll help middle class families working two and three shifts to put food on the table. we'll be making key investments in places like education and science and technology, research and development that the american people understand is required to win the future. we can't wait. we can't wait until gas is skyrocketed more and people are desperate. we need to start making those investments now. an america built to last is one where we are supporting scientists and researchers. trying to find the next break through in clean energy. or we can fight for an economy

that works for everybody. an economy that'sability to last. or we can build an economy that's built to last, or are we better off when everyone gets a fair shot and everyone does their fair share. megyn: chris plante is the host of the chris plante show. christopher hahn is a former aide to senator chuck schumer. it appears they found a campaign slogan. chris plants, forward. what do you think? >> it has good liberal roots. the association of germany has a slogan called forward. there is a little watched cable network. forward would be nice if we were headed in the right direction,

but we are not. it's time to hit the brakes and put it in reverse. thelma and louise were going forward. i don't see a prosperous future going forward. >> this is probably crisp best work. a tin hat wearing crazy. i have got to hand it to you. i'm speechless. every time i see walker speak there in wisconsin, standing next to a flag with the word "forward" on it, is he a socialist? >> the lefties are trying to recall anyone who makes sense. >> it's a word that means moving ahead, getting past where we are, going in a different direction other than this tail spin the economy has been in thanks to policies put in place long before this president ever took office. forward is a great word, a

positive word. i don't think it will be the last slogan. everything is when a tested until after labor day. then you see the real stuff. look for a couple more slogans. megyn: don't you need something catchy? bill clinton, it's the economy, stupid. it's the one we remember. it's the one we remember associated with his campaign. then this one from ronald reagan. remember this one. wait? we don't have it. >> morning in america. megyn: that's how well you know it. you can't wait until september, can you, chris plante? >> the obama administration will be nailing about trying to find new things between now and election day because nobody wants what they are selling. if you want a talk show host vote for him. if you want to go forward this direction you are probably deranged. this is crazy. this is true my listeners and

myself. we adopted a slogan for this campaign season. you know what it is? change. megyn: chris hahn, you said in your first answer something like yes we want to move forward away from this mess. could it be used against him? people want to move forward from this president. >> i don't think so. i think people in this country understand who created this mess. i'll take the president changing his slogan six times over romney changing his position 1,000 times. where are these core beliefs? he changes his core beliefs based on a poll and market research. at least this president is using market research for what it's good for, slogans. we are going too continue to move forward. megyn: speaking of change, chris plante, this is a big change from hope and change. forward has a different connotation it's not a

continuation necessarily of hope and change. does it create the same feelings in those critical independent voters? >> no, it's like the soviet troops retreating when winter game it's a hard, long slog. to borrow a phrase from donald rumsfeld. >> general washington called forward, too, when he was directing his troops. megyn: he was a well-known socialist. >> i have a forward button on my dvr, a button on my car that i push to go forward. we go forward, we hit the gas, we move ahead, we go in a new direction, it's fine, we love it. >> we have $1.3 trillion annual deficits. i think it's type to hit the brakes and turn to the right and

i think the american people are with me. megyn: gentlemen, thank you. coming up we'll go live to jerusalem for that breaking news on why israel called up what we believe to be thousands of soldiers and ordered them to the border with syria. a judge just issued a ruling on who can take home the cash -- the woman didn't scratch the ticket well enough. she put it in the garbage. stay tuned. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business, it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact

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megyn: 13 people are charged out of florida in the hazing death of drum major champion. he died in november after being severely beaten during a hazing ritual following a football game. stay with us for the latest as we get more details on these specific charges. we are also tracking a developing story out of israel. israel's defense force has called up 6 what tallons, 6d called up 6 battalions. >> reporter: this is a serious and public warning shot aimed primarily at the he egyptians. it underscores how worried

israel is about where egypt is going. every israeli man serves 3 years in the army when he's drafted at 18. then he does 20 years of reserve duty and is called up every three years. this authorization allows them to be called up more often than every three years. the egyptians are supposed to patrol the sinai desert. but they haven't been doing their jobs. there have been attacked launched from the sinai desert against israel. in large part because of how much military aid they get from the united states, things have not been doing so well with that peace treaty. the israeli embassy was destroyed by a mob of protesters a couple months back. that shows how bad things are

going up north of the sir yab border where the israeli army is very nervous. let me put this in more contact from a regional perspective. the rhetoric in egypt is heating up in terms of the anti-israeli statement being made. we are less than a month away from the presidential elections in that country. the man leading in the polls says he believes the peace treaty needs to be put on the shelves of history. in this part of the world you underestimate your enemy at your peril. megyn: coming up. when president bush used a brief shot of the twin towers in a campaign ad, he cause criticized by the media. now we'll ask some of president

bush's own team about the backlash in 2004 and what they make of the relative media silence now. the dolphin has made a new home in the shallow waters of off california's coast but the story of how got there is not nearly as cute as the pictures being snapped from shore. plus a woman claims a million dollar lottery prize. her ticket found in the trash. it was discarded by someone temperature. that someone says she discarded it only because the machine told her she wasn't a winner. a judge just issued a ruling on who gets jackpot. we are taking the case back to "kelly's court" where it's been twice before. >> what she did legally to her detriment on that scanner owned by the store, i said you have got losers and tossed the ticket. >> have didn't she follow the rules? >> it doesn't matter.

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megyn: president obama used last night's speech from afghanistan to again mention usama bin laden's death it was given only one-year anniversary of his killing. questions are coming up on how that event is playing in his reelection campaign. remember in 2004 when president

george w. bush used a shot of the towers in his campaign. and there was an outcry. nbc's david gregory says not the first time mr. bush has been accused of using the 9/11 attack for political gain. where are those voices when it comes to bin land and his execution being used in a presidential reelection ad? we wanted to put that question to some of the bush team. joining me now, dana perino.

mark seesen, a former bush speech writer. thank you so much for coming back and being with us here. when president bush ran that ad, it appeared in a couple seconds of the ad. he was excoriated. the media took him to task. president obama has gotten some pushback, how does it compare? >> because that ad in 2004, the war on terror was relatively new to the country after those attacks, maybe it was then considered so outrageous by some. on the other hand you could say this happened, it happened on my watch, and it absolutely changed the presidency, if you look at what he campaigned on in 2000, it wasn't to do anything of the sort. neither he nor al gore were

asked a single question about died were during that campaign. perhaps if i'm being more sensitized to the politics of the war on terror i think had president obama just gone to afghanistan, given that good speech and not don't ad sucking romney would not have done the same thing we probably wouldn't be having this panel today. megyn: mark you think the president has opened himself up to criticism when it comes to his policies and to his criticism of policies that he offered of your former boss. >> absolutely. obama has adopted so much of the bush counter-terrorism strategy that it was a matter of time before he described himselfing a the decider in chief. the first decision he made was

to shut count cia interrogation program which we now know it produced the intelligence that led to the killing of usama bin laden. you can say i give you full credit, but if you had bent decider in chief when we captured khalid sheikh mohammad there would have been no intelligence which would have led us there. megyn: is it fair game putting the killing of bin laden in a political ad and taking the additional step of saying mitt romney would not have killed him. >> absolutely not. i had no problem at all with president bush referencing in

his act because it wasn't a single act, it was the leadership following 9/11 whether it was the patriot act. it was an act of leadership. let me say this about the killing of sam. america rejoices in the fact that our president gave that command. but the american people have to realize where the president was when the attack was going down. he was playing golf at andrews air force base. he was called back to the white house while the attack was underway. if you look at the official photo released by the white house, historic photo marking this president's great act of killing usama bin laden. he looks like he's late to a movie. he's not sitting in the command and control room in the situation room. a general is sitting in the president's chair. he's sitting in his golf clothes looking like he had just come in which he did, from the golf

course. the president wants to make the american people believe he's john wayne when he's really barney fife. all his actions have to be take in the full context of what he did, when he did it and the purposes for which he's trying to exploit. megyn: the president you worked for was criticized for being a cowboy. do you think if he had run an ad like this he would have gotten a different pushback from the mainstream media and others? >> absolutely, and rightly so. but he didn't. if you have the reputation of being a cowboy and you make decisions and cut ads in your presidential election campaign you have to think what will the reaction be in that light. i don't know if the obama campaign did that when they added that p.s., i don't think romney would have done that. if they would have just left it as this happened, praise the seals, i'm done, we wouldn't

have the question of him politicizing it. i do think one other thing. last tuesday night when mitt romney gave his acceptance speech basically when he had the five primaries. he had one line. it was it's still the economy and we are not stupid. i think the discussion about national security is interesting for this week. it's happening on the appropriate day when usama bin laden was killed on that an verse which. but come november this election will still be about the economy unless something else happen and i hope it doesn't in national security. megyn: marc, your friend and colleague brad told us he thinks this is a distraction. that president obama went to afghanistan because he needed the news cycle to change giver what we have seen domestically. >> i'll respectfully disagree with brad. ed the fact that president obama went to afghanistan and gave this speech was a very good

thing. one of the reasons that popular support for the war in afghanistan has been plummet can is because the president has'been doing his job as commander in cheech, to report regularly to the american people. to explain our strategy, explain the consequences of failure and ask for the american people's support. obama has not been doing that. the fact that he went to afghanistan and did that yesterday is a good thing. however, the message he gave was it was not about winning a war, it was bending a war. it was not about defeating the taliban, it was about negotiating with the taliban. i criticize him more for the weakness of the message. he finally got on tv and gave an address to the american people about the consequences in stance *. megyn: do you run the risk of criticizing obama or just make it to the situation room and not

being behind the decision? are you falling into a trap that will be used against you in the republicans won't even give him credit for taking out bin laden. >> we do give him credit. he made a good decision to get him. we applaud him. it's the problem of what he did after that decision which he excoriated president bush when he made reference to his achievements during the war and terror and this president has exploited. he made with our troops only because he had to. between gsa and solyndra and the secret service scandal, unemployment, if it wasn't for pad news this buy wouldn't have any news at all. he needed to change the subject. that's what he did. if you give a fair reading to a speech, he used our troops for a political speech. i say it's shameless to do that.

megyn: next time marc will play the role of the democrat. it's always interesting to see from former bush administration officials. new developments involving a $1 million lotto ticket. a woman dumpster dives. she cashed in the ticket and won. then the store owner says both of you are losers. i own the ticket, you had no right to go in my dumpster. a judge just said who gets money. >> my client sharon duncan is the on the innocent party in this case. she purchased that ticket. she used the ticket scanner on the counter of the store owned by the store, put the ticket delight and it said loser. so she tossed it in the trash.

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megyn: a verdict in a former "kelly's court." a judge ruling finders are not keepsers. sharon jones found a lottery ticket in a trash can at an arkansas convenience store. then they picked a winner. it turned out to be a winner out of the trash. she cashed it in for a million bucks. but a judge ruled jones does not get to keep the money. she says the woman who first bought the ticket, sharon duncan, gets the money even though she threw the money away. the store owner says she owns the ticket because it was thrown away in her trash.

she says she posted a sign on the trash can saying "do not take." she says she is going to appeal. we have all sides represented. david, your client as you predicted last time you were on won. >> sharon duncan, the original innocent purchaser of that ticket. there was no legal abandonment of that ticket. when she went in and took that lottery ticket she bought and put it through the ticket scanner and the scanner said loser, sorry, you don't win. the scanner is regulated by the state, the same state that regulates the lotto. when the scanner malfunctioned as it did in this state, she can legally rely on that when she took her ticket and chucked it. there was no legal aban don't. that means legally it's still in her possession, she gets the

million bucks. megyn: lis, your fake client is the woman who first got the million dollars. sharon jones. she is the one who went dumpster diving. why should she get it when the original purchaser did not mean to throw it away. she was told she didn't have a winner. >> because duncan there it away. you can't abandon something more than throwing it in the trash. don't go after the woman who rightfully took it out of the trash. it belonged to nobody. and she has a winning ticket. the lottery committee gave to it sharon jones my client. they had already given to it her. megyn: sharon jones knew there was an issue. mercedes client caused a problem from the beginning. >> she has the u.s. supreme

court behind her. there is a 1988 supreme court case that talks about trash rights. unless that trash is out to be collected it's not public property. i think the u.s. supreme court trucks all of you. it was sitting in a trash can. >> it's not on the curb. there is an expectation. especially with the sign. there is a sign that says don't take anything from this. i know there is back and forth about when the sign went up. megyn: there is a dispute on when do the not take sign was put up. >> a woman testified the sign was put up after my client the winner found that ticket. doesn't that tell you right there everything you want to know? megyn: i thought lis had a decent point about how her client who did the dumpster diving, she cashed it in.

if your client got screwed over by the machine, why doesn't your client sue the maker of the machine? >> fit comes down to it, the maker of the machine or the state that sanctions the machine is going to be involved. but my client per arkansas state law has to knowingly and voluntarily abandon that piece of property, that ticket before she loses the ticket. megyn: she was an inefficient scratcher. you can scratch and that's where we are going to pick up with the scratching right after this break. ♪

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megyn: why shouldn't your

client, the inefficient scratcher be held to the consequences of her laziness? >> because these tickets are put through the scanning machines for one good reason. what if a purchaser comes in and speaks only spanish or they are illiterate and they can't read. megyn: is that your client's situation? >> no, but that's why they can rely on the scanners legally for that very reason. and she can rely on it. it may be the state is sued about it other two. but my client is entitled to that $1 million because she never abandoned the ticket. megyn: lis' client has spent part of it. lis, what is your client going do? >> nothing, there is nothing she will have to do. she won't have to repay. the decision will be reversed on appeal.

but the people making money are the lawyers. think about these women paying for the lawyers to litigate this. there won't be anything left. megyn: if you can throw something in the trash and then come back after it turns out to be valuable and say i want the money, what happens at garage sales where people discard paintings and items that they don't think are valuable. then they find out it's valuable and say i didn't mean to. >> we rely on the conduct of others. someone says they abandoned it. it's something i can take and certainlith this case the store clerk had the right to say that's my property because of that sign. >> it was in the garbage can. megyn: the store is going down in flames. >> there is a hard argument to be made.

the -- megyn: they didn't put that sign up until later. that witness lis called was persuasive. there is a good debate between lis's client who went dumpster diving and david's client who bought the ticket. if your client gets reversed on appeal can she sue the maker of the machine that scanned it, the state of arkansas? >> absolutely and she will, count on it. megyn: don't they have immunity. >> you have to file a notice. they have limited immunity. she relied on that and she'll win. megyn: adjourned. we'll be right back.

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