pulling back. and now cities are calling for more federal stimulus to bring the economy back. but some say all . responding is the problem. are they right? hi, erch. i am brenda. this is bulls and bears. >> this week. jonas and todd and stefan. and welcome to everyone. more stimulus, is that the answer in >> brenda, we don't seem to be learning any lessons here if we get more stimulus. let's go back and review what the obama administration. they said that unemployment rate would never go above 8 and half and it went to 10 percent by the end of 2010 below seven and half and it is not near there. president obama said we created all of those jobs unemployment factor and people who with drew from the work force. and any jobs that we created

in the green sector that should have been ripe for jobs since we have so much stimulus. and the wind sector alone lost 10,000 jobs since 2009. and if we do this, it will be more of the same and we'll spiral down ward and not up ward. >> it is a problem too much stimulus or not enough. >> the problem is, gary, god bless him is sounding european right now. we have a lot of austeer thinkers in europe and they drosedrove those economies in recession. the bailouts that bush and obama put in prevented a terribly depression. i am not happy with the job growth. i would rather have our position than europe where they tried austerity and it isous. we could put in big projects

and cutting way back on spending would make things worse. >> you know, gary, i will let toby smith stick up for you. i know calling you europeans is it a fighting word. >> i have called him irish. and what are it is issues with europe. they had a financial crash because they completely overpent and put up a system they couldn't afford and we are on that same trajectory the negative spending is making people come to terrible conclusions. we'll have terrible inflation and someone will have to pay for this. and the job creators are the ones that are holding back and that is what is holding us back. and they think we are out of whack here. we'll get back to the stimulus issue. and jon as, you think that right now we are swimming in stim tim already. it is kind of in the eye of

the beholder, isn't it? >> that's right. we did have stimulus. more than any other country. we are not in a recession which is great. but you don't need to start a stim tim program. we are not in a recession. now why can bicker about how it was spent. and could be more job creator. we are doing better and they had a big stim tim program. >> you are right about that. and the president could have done more things. we are in a recession and need more stimulus. this economy is in need of organic growth and it is not there right now. what else is it going to be. soup liance or government to get involved. >> you want the government to

spend more money. >> brenda, i am not a fan of this. but it needs to be done. the economy is in desperate needs and the job's report has us in 1.7 gdp. third quarter, we'll be in a recession. we don't have people working and consumer confidence is done. >> you are doing a helpful a job. >> and gary, mr. european you take him on. >> i can understand his view point the lefty he is. but who invited todd back. >> what happened to him. >> and look. i think it is it a simple equation. todd makes the point we should spin more. i am not saying the money shouldn't be spent. why can't the private sector spend it. we are transferring it from one group to another. you are assuming that the government can spend it somehow better or more efficiently.

we have seen that. wait a second. we have seen it can't with the green sector and solyndra and let the private sectork. >> i got it. you are right. but look at quarterly earnings. ther looking at three percent earnings growth. but bottom line they do go out and spepped they are going to show negative earnings growth. i am not a fan. but something has to be done and it is it not happening from the private sector or american consumer: >> we say wait a minute. if i am going to center inflation and this doesn't stop the some point. we'll wait until something happens and that uncertainty and lack of confidence is what is hurting our jobs. it is out of control spending.

>> it is a great point. and the proof is there. that the count rows who didn't cut it. and it is it all the way from ireland and going to grease and france. they cut it too soon. they were not clever but we are not in a recession? we did a great job. you say spend more i think i have a way to do this that makes gary happy. he's right. the ben bernanke. there are -- that's right. 57 million children between the ages of 5-18 we talk about how we don't want to borrow. let them spend the money.

i am an atm for my kid that's not the way to do it i am a believer in the private sector and i think that our economy is completely than the european countris and we do things differently here it will not be as negative as my fellow panelist point out. you have to unwind the balance event. you need americans to do their own. the white house hand out. the casuto. >> and that is provided by the communities. >> and we have more than that

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formal kick off and the president is engaged in the campaign for months and he rallies in the swing states of ohio and virginia and we'll cover that live for you when the president speaks. i am jamie colby. keep it on fox. real reliefalt the pump may be on the way. and back below $10000 a barrel and it happened on the same day. and there is a new plan for a key stone pipe line. pumping more oil is how to push down prices; does this prove you are right? >> it is gas under 3 dollars a gallon at the pump. everyone is calling the congressional leaders and look, it can be done because one-half and southern part of the pipe is in place and it is

that northern part that is in place. it is it there and right now, you saw oil prices go down. >> is the pipe line alone enough to bring oil and gas prices down? >> it is cleared with the environmental problems and it doesn't make a difference. let's pretend that this brings a million barrels of off to the country, all that is going to happen opec cuts it and there is an organization that controls supply and counters our supply. you can't do anything about it >> nice logic and this is a couple of issues. >> and it is iraq and others. and the next big issue. people are holding us hostage.

if we tell that to the world. prices dropped instead of environment terrorist control. it is the human beings and that makes a difference. i do not. what do you think? it will bring oil prices down. >> i think it will help. oil prices are a volatile matter. they are quite right. this is domestic energy. canada is a 51st state, is that right? i would rather have energy coming out of north america than what is hotly contested.

it is environmentam terrorist and admit that sometimes this is a great way to do it and it is it easy. >> by the way it is it significantly cheaper. i think toby is off to eye good point. it starts to send what it takes. we have 200 worth of energy supply. maybe drilling in an war second and maybe the oil sands. oh, my gosh. people tart to price gasoline and oil .

i think it is the seventh . and we had to cut back a bit. they attend the cost. and price comes down. it takes it to slide back to 60 dollars a barrel. you can look at political issues as well. and we push the oil prices higher. and that is a wonderful, wonderful time. this is built by 2014.

and it pushes prices down. you want to feel good. it is the first signal in a while that we might be willing. it is what they have on. and we have the reserves there. and now we can. we can make investments in the area and it combats the point that obama is making. of course it will not solve it tomorrow but what about a week or a month from now. >> we got to go.

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>> health care law in and new report suggesting that america's companies may ditch the health care plans for the big gux. >> keep your health care plans. if you like your health care

plan. you will be able to keep it, period . >> toby? >> you are entitled to your opinion but not your facts. you put money away and pay for it. you can get people out of that self funded plan and as a ceo. is this incentive a incentative. >> it makes no sense. logic is because you can pay a 2000 dollar fine you kick the employees out. why don't they do it now? there is no penalty and ther getting huge breaks to provide health insurance and that's why they provide health insurance. they are never going to take it away the point the president was making, you can

choose your own. your company chooses your health care plan. he is right about that. and they have to look out for their bottom line. and the bottom line is, you can save 80 percent on health care coverage and pay the penalty you are going to do that. >> the key to keeping good employees is that it provides good benefits. >> i am surprised to see tone yetide suckered. they were surveyed and they would have to hurt their employees to do this. you notice one thing they didn't and them. whether they were planing to

kick them in the health care system. none of them are thinking about it >> that is it 15,000. and say you are a ceo of a company what do you do? the company spends 11,000. and that is nine thousand. the money will be spent and the obama administration will hope that clamping down on these costs and what you will have is clamp down and supply will dry up. it better be repealed. we heard you tell us how the

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>> it is going to work and play and up 25 percent. >> todd? >> i am a bear. >> and okay your prediction? >> inteleis trading at multiple of six. it is lately running well against google and will be up 50 percent. >> and john? >> bull or bear. >> i don't think it can happen. >> gary your prediction. >> the economy is terrible and people are going to stay at homine more just like me. comcast is the way to buy. >> toby. >> no one can stay at home

more than you. >> we have a nice home to stay in. >> and jon as. >> mom and kid. the copper tone is looking for a new miss coppertone. and merger of equals. up 50 percent. >> bull or bear? >> i am a bear. just too darn expensive. >> easy. and you are going to sell everything they can to raise the cash. >> gary, are you a bull or bear on that one. >> i am a bear. i like the thought but not the stocks. >> we like cavuto on business. neal take it away. there is no such thing as a free lunch but don't tell that to the occupy crowd. hi, everyone. thoughts on the occupiers. this past week going over the top the pde