growing for a soda tack ax, are these the biggest threats facing the middle class? i'm cheryl cassone and welcome to "cashin' in", wayne rogers, jonathan hoenig, tracy byrnes, john layfield and back with us the proud new father, returning from paternal leave, congratulations, to kristen dorsey. and, the middle class is basically getting taxed out? >> absolutely, and kristen, kids need good dads like you. and in illinois they raised the corporate tax rate an except the large corporations. so, the people that are having to pay it are the small and medium sized businesses, exactly what happens with our national tax. and so, politician don't have the will to pass what california is trying to do at 13%, state tax, and pass things they can get passed like a soda or cigarette tax and not a filet

mignon tax, a cheeseburger tax, yes, it adversely affects the middle class and lower. >> look at food prices, and, everything is going higher. and 8.7% for chicken and let's tax your sodas and your beer, is that fair, wayne, do you think? >> it's not a question of fairness, it is a question of the local constituency, desperate for money, states, counties, cities, you think the city of vallejo, california, went bust and they can't find money and the tobacco funds, states settle for the tobacco companies and all those funds are running out, too. and they are spending more than they are taking in, a constant problem and the federal government does it and all governments do it and the worst part about it, for example, the doctor from the university of chicago saying that this is a tax and made it almost a racial thing, when he said it's a form of social justice and so you tax

the lower people, because they get more sugar. i mean, that is outrageous. it is a confession to a system that has -- concession to a system that has nothing to do with liberty and has to do with, quote a need budget. >> in the owe other side of the argument, supporting the taxes happening in new york, chicago, 33 states have this going on now, the beverage industry spent $948 million on marketing in 2010 and they are -- a lot of it goes to kids. health experts say we have to do something, this is the way to do it. >> i agree the sugar tax is probably a good idea. and the beer tax in new york, doesn't really concern me much, when you add it all together, they are pennies on the dollar and the real issue for middle class families is the fact their incomes have not gone up for ten years and they are worse off today than ten years ago. if their incomes had risen as we'd expect they'd have 8700 more dollars per year in income

and would make the tax conversation moot. i agree with john. you know, this is certainly -- shocking to me that we spend so much time figuring out how to add little nickel and dime taxes to the middle class without really thinking about tax fairness overall and making sure we tax people at all levels accordingly. but, really the true issue here, is incomes have not gone up and that is hurting middle class families. >> i see the point, but at the same time, incomes are not going up, but, these are additional -- i mean, a lot of people -- milk, cookies, the basics are being taxed to death, including the sugary stuff, is it fair to the middle class? will they get hurt. >> yes. that is what we spend the bulk of our money on, there's an exorbitant amount of corn being plan, nothing else is plan and we'll have a shortage everywhere else and the prices will continue to go up and up and you will feel inflation at the food store for a long time though no one wants to admit that. the bigger problem -- as it is, a penny tax, it is not being

spent properly, when it is collected. don't even take a penny from me, whether on my soda or my cookies. if you don't know what to do with it once you get it -- that's the big problem, and wayne brought it up and this is what we're down to, government needs to figure out how to collect tax and use them properly. if they can't don't collect them. >> it may be the beer tax floated in new york but in chicago, energy drinks, sugary drinks, i don't know what you will do, how will you get out of bed in the morning, jonathan? >> it will be very difficult, cheryl and, the pennies add up, actually, people talk about tax fairness and a consumption based flat tax is a good idea and treats everyone fairly and equitably and is easy to understand and, it tax consumption, not production which is the wealth creation in the country and the panel hit on it. it isn't fairness, it is social engineering, trying to get people to drink less sugar and drinks, and smoke less cigarettes and cheryl i enjoy a

beer now and then. i don't think it is -- i enjoy this beer and even a little early in the morning, i don't know why government's role is to protect me from making my own decisions, i think are best for my own life. >> and i expected energy drinks and we got a beer from jonathan today! what is happening in chicago, the teamsters made an interesting point and they said, if you add the tax and raise price as you are going to see lots of sales, lots of production -- loss of sales, loss of production and loss over jobs if you go after the energy and sugar drinks and are taking a whole other way with this. >> that is not a whole other way, if you tax something, obviously, tax it enough it will go out of existence, of course it will defeat job creation, any time you tax something, raise the cost of it, it will defeat it but, jonathan makes a good point. the idea of social engineering, this is against sugar, you know, as opposed to giving me the

freedom to make my choice and if i were to drink a beer in his hour, which may be moronic to some people, he needs to have the freedom to do it. to drink whatever hour he wants to. >> and to add to the point, we saw with cigarettes, they jacked the taxes on cigarettes and no one is stopping smoking, so you are taking away discretionary income, it will not stop me from drinking the diet pepsi, i love it in the summer, and you will not stop me from buying oreos, because my kids love them but we'll take away my extra discretionary incomer for you me to put back into the economy. >> trace you, what you said is what they do with the tax and hit the nail on the head, providence, rhode island is bankruptcy, detroit, michiganics bankrupt. counties in oregon are not patrolling outside the city because they cannot afford it. politicians are not balancing the budgets and are looking, instead of dealing with pensions, dealing with medicare,

cutting costs and making things reasonable they are adding sugar tax, tobacco tax, trying to cover up their own in ineptness. >> i think, too, the concern is where does it stop, whether beer or sugar or fried chicken or whatever, the concern here is that they'll keep -- again, states and cities are bankrupt, desperate for money and looking at an extra $200 million if they add on the taxes. >> the reason i like sugar taxes, it doesn't have anything to do with health an obesity. it has to do with rebalancing a market that is skewed. many sugary products are made with high fructose corn syrup, something heavily subsidized from the federal government and i'd like to see taxes go to offset that incredible subsidy that is making -- >> why not get rid of the subsidies. >> amen, let's do it. let's do it. have it -- the subsidies have not gone away. >> but, you are going for economic freedom, maybe a first from what i have heard.

you are arguing for people making their own decisions and government not favoring certain types of industries and foods and activities by individuals and that is... >> absolutely, but, it is to rebalance. >> from a guy holding a beer at this hour of the morning. anyway... coming up... americans are still buying up those gas guzzlers, is it time to put the brakes on the green handouts, and, remember this guy? and this gsa scandal? guess what? he wasn't alone, the new vacation tab the taxpayers are picking up. >> product x, we have product y and we'll start with product x ♪

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>> this will drive green supporters a little crazy. even with high gas prices and the government's push to go green, american drivers still want gas guzzlers. just look at this: chrysler's jeeps and pickup trucks were among the top sellers last month. and, you say this is more proof

we should slam the brakes on green subsidies, especially for the carmakers? what do you think. >> cheryl, governments push, the force for green energies and green cars is not only delusional but disruptive, in the real world people buy products that, i don't know, add values to their lives and despite the subsidies and hand-aways they are not choosing green cars and the average chevy dealer sells one volt or less a month and americans are not finding value in the products and are not choosing them and government should get out of the business of trying to incentivize and choose one vehicle for individuals. >> and, tense of billions of dollars have been spent on the green mutual and 3% of sales went to electric vehicles though a lot of the taxpayer funding is going there, is that a problem. >> just a bit. but jonathan hit the nail on the head. you will buy what you want. i don't care what is subsidized

and what is not at the end of the day. i have a lot of kids, i need a big car. nobody is subsidizing my truck for some reason and, you got gas prices, around $4, that is not a game-changer yet. i don't care, quite frankly until gas hits $5 or $6 and they'll go into panic mode but until then, these small cars are not selling and we saw it in the most recent numbers from the automakers, big cars are. this is what the people want. >> christian, to be fair here, the green energy movement within the car industry, solyndra, and, beacon power, got $43 million, the list goes on and on and it is a movement. are we at a point where we have to quit funding this stuff. >> i'll be the first to admit, if you need to transport lots of people like tracy or haul gear and tow equipment or go off-road you will not be choosing a volt or leaf or tesla. but, if you are going to get these technologies incorporated into all types of vehicles in the future they need to be

subsidized now and, to put real numbers on it, the amount we are subsidizing, green energy, in the early years, amounts to about 25% of what we subsidize oil and gas production, for example, in its early years, in fact if you add up all the money we spend on green subsidies, it pales in comparison to what we do on an annual basis to subsidize oil and gas production. >> you are ready to get rid of all the subsidies, on the record, for every type of energy and want government out of the business of subsidizing -- >> what i -- >> is that right. >> i want to be real. we subsidize oil and gas and have since 19 -- >> get rid of the green stuff, will you support that. >> we subsidized oil and gas since 1916 and now it is profitable to the point the big three oil companies are making $80 billion, with a b, a year. why in the world are we subsidizing something that is generating that much profit? >> why are we subsidizing

companies like solyndra and gm, which has not paid us back billions of dollars, to make the volt. why are we subsidizing them, at least for energy we actually get a value out of it. fuel. >> taking a long time for the value to come. >> let me get other voices in here, john, back to the vehicle issue, numbers show us that people will buy what they will buy like, last week we talked about, they'll eat what they will eat. >> we stop subsidies or change how we do it. i'm able for implementation of all the new technologies and the problem is we are implementing it completely wrong. the way we -- they are going about this is to talk about new fleets and say your new taxi fleet has to be a hybrid and that is the way to get mass adoption of the policy. >> why? >> let me finish, this is political, you have the government playing venture capitalism, with solyndra and the best brains in the world can't do it and our government can't put together a two-car

parade much less do vc and they are on the wrong end and doing it the wrong way. >> wayne, we got the vehicle sales numbers and chrysler, up 20% and a lot of that was with trucks, suvs. >> well, the numbers are somewhat skewed. if you listen to what ford did, ford's demand for fuel efficient vehicles is up 70-some percent and it's not all one way and by the way, it doesn't have to do with that, whether an automobile or not. it has to do with the fact most of the money has been politically oriented and politicized, to the extent you have 13 companies that have received various kinds of tax incentives from the government. it has cost 2500 jobs and over $4 billion, in wasted money. that is the problem, is the fact that, and, by the way, 23 out -- let me finish, jonathan. 23 out of 27 people who got this money, were budonors to the

present administration, a politicized thing and they got the money and because it became a thing for the government to do, that is where it was wasted. >> wayne, appreciate it, guys, great discussion, we're going to move on and take a break, when we come back, a good one, everybody, forget the clowning around with your tax money at the gsa, now a type ice official busted for tricking taxpayers out of big money, how to stop all the tricks for good, next. i'm consolidating my assets. i'm not paying hidden fees or high commissions. i'm making the most of my money. and seven-dollar trades are just the start. i'm with scottrade. i'm with scottrade. i'm with scottrade. and i'm loving every minute of it. [ rodger riney ] at scottrade, we give you commission-free etfs, no-fee iras and more. come see why more investors are saying... i'm with scottrade.

>> first the gsa and now an ice official is in trouble for wasting tax dollars and your airline fee is clear for take

>> i'm umar farouk abdulmutallab

patchy patchy the mastermind behind the september 11th terror attacks is being arained in cuba, khalid sheikh mohammed and four others facing charges of terrorism and murder and their roles in that attack and catherine herridge is in guantanamo bay and we'll have a live report, coming up at the top of the hour. and, president obama is officially starting a re-election campaign today and he and the first lady are holding events in the key swing states of ohio and virginia, a popular spokesman for the presumptive nominee, mitt romney, and will check in with ed bradley, traveling with the president. violence left 23 people dead in a town over the mexican border, 9 killed were found hanging from a bridge, and 14 others were found in an abandoned car. more on these and the rest of your top headlines, coming up, at the top of the hour on america's news headquarters, i hope you will join us. ♪ >> first the taxpayer party in the gsa and now a top

immigration official is pleading guilty to scamming taxpayers out of $500,000 by billing for trips he never took. and, wayne has a simple solution to all of it. what is it. >> cut the government down. size alone in and of itself breeds this kind of stuff and you have a government totally out of control and people who are running it are out of control. nobody is watching the store. they don't care. if you look, tom coburn, the senator, puts out a book every year about government waste. if you -- it is about this thick and when you read that book you realize, that this is totally out of control and nobody cares. the government doesn't care and the congress doesn't care and the people we elect do not care. you have to do something about it an slim it down, cut it down, cut all the budgets. >> john, do you think cutting the size of government would cut down on the waste we have been seek with these two examples? >> yes, depends how much you cut them. problem is, wayne is right, throw these guys in jail, crime

has a name and when the gsa guys, sat before congress they took the 5th. here was your chance, tough guy to sit there in front of the american people and explain why you stole taxpayer money and they refused to do it. that is the problem we have in this government, there is a name for one who does this all the time and what we say, that is a rounding error and is not so much money and those people are in charge of medicare an social security and defense and we have got to weed these guys out and throw the ones in jail that are stealing taxpayers' money. >> christian, criminal activity, or stupidity? which is it at this point? >> depends which case you are talking about, the ice case is criminal activity and i hope controls are improved so it doesn't happen again and wayne your solution to shrink the size of government is a separate conversation and will not stop the problem. governments big and small are corrupt. you can give me tons of

examples. >> get 'em all out. >> governments are corrupt and i lost $20 a couple of weeks ago and the solution is not to stop carrying cash, but to take better care of. >> and stop hiring idiots to run the shop. hello, has anybody seen youtube lately? did they think they weren't going to get caught? the arrogance of this i think is the stuff that blows my mind the most. no one will catch us. and in this day and age, this is what we do, find the stupid things you do and, thankfully we fond them. >> jonathan, last word, taxpayer money is being wasted and people... >> what i think we need is a blue ribbon committee to eke out the waste, fraud and abuse in government, right, because we never heard that before. in the last, what, 100 years. >> and wayne hit the nail on the head, christian, respectfully you are wrong, shrink the siefz government and billions of dollars become millions of dollars and hundreds of thousands of dollars and, it is

not so difficult. follow the constitution. it is all there. be size of government shrinks and the fraud shrinks as well. >> in defense of christian, stealing is stealing, and ineptness is ineptness and if people do it you have to weed them out whether you have ten or ten million. >> we defend christian and congratulate him again on being a new dad. great to have you back. >> good to see you again. thank you. >> coming up, up, up and away. not your flights but your bag fees, the new carry on charge that could cost you, more than your ticket. bla financing industries that are creating jobs in boston... providing funding for the expansion of a local business serving a diverse seattle community... and lending to ensure a north texas hospital continues to deliver quality care. because the more we can do in local neighborhoods and communities, the more we can help make opportunity possible. of how a shipping giant can befriend a forest

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>> time for what do i need to know for next week, tracy byrnes. >> come november 5th, spirit airlines, had a bad week, will charge $100 if you pay the fee to carry a bag on at the gate from $45, watch, this is a trend and they'll all do it. >> ceo, spirit, nice guy. >> not a good day. >> and john? >> tarring get is getting rid o

kindle and apple will have a store within a store, doing everything correct and will add a dividend, great company to own. >> dividends are good. wayne rogers? >> don't gamble on the stock market but there are some things you can, and i like las vegas sands, big in macow and increased their earnings, a good bet. >> lvs, well said, jonathan? >> every gold and silver stock i follow, 52-week low, a bearish sign and check out dgz, an etf that actually goes up as gold prices go down, i think they are headed lower from here. >> interesting, guys, thank you so much, that is it for "the cost of freedom block" and thanks for joining us and have a great weekend. >> jamie: we've been waiting for this day for nearly 11 years, khalid sheikh mohammed, the 9/11 mastermind and four alleged co-conspirators are finally arraigneda