president obama's plan would raise it from 15 percent to 40 percent. high, everybody. i am david asbin. become to forbes on fox. we'll go in focus with teave forbes . elizabeth and mike and rick. rich, first to you. how would it affect the jobs in the country? >> the first thing that happens it would kill the stock market. the gains since 2009 would go in reverse and companies saw the stock evaluations going down they're aggressive about trimming pay roll . >> rick, if you want less of something tax it more. that is the old adage and less of a boom in the stock market. >> i want to go at it a different way. we have the same argument under which president is better or worse. let's try it this way.

what happens when taxes are higher on dividend. they don't want to receive higher dividend and companies take it and don't let it do nothing. but reinvest it in the business. let me finish. they do that so they can grow the business and increase the share value. when they grow the business, what happens? they have to hire more people. yeah, it hurts your pocket book i will agree to that and if you are looking to increase jobs. >> steve didn't a democrat reduce the capitol gains and what clinton did and part loolly led to the stock market booming. what rick should describe should get him a job in a university and the french government that is nonsense. >> are they hiring. >> the fact of the matter is, when you raise the price on risk take success you get less of them. we tried it in the 1930s and

failed and japan has tried it since the 1990s and disaster economy. and we have done it for the last three years. emac took a magnifying glass for the last 20 years, what have you found. >> first of all, the self rightousness continues in washington d.c.. >> self rightousness, wow? >> this policy. they wouldn't know a budget if it ran over them. it comes at a time when john ker yecharlie rangel are trying to avoid taxes, but here's what we found tax capitol gain rev view comes in more when you cut it 'nen it went up 28 percent. and here's the deal. apple, google and facebook and all angel investors coming in to fund those companis and created mor tax revenue for

the government. >> let me go to victoria. isn't it the only reason we are hearing calls for this is income redistribution. it affects the economy adversely. this is put forth people who want to bring down the income rich would you want a care of what happened. >> they need to fill the coffers and easiest way to do that is to go after the rich. it seems harmless and they are flush with cash and they will not notice. but the truth is, they will invest differently and will notice. dividend stocks will go down and tock market will take a hit like rich said and people who get hit are retirees. half of all dividend go to people over the age of 65. they will sit on smaller investment funds and take hits. companies will reassess the

dividend plans and do respond to the dividend tax rate. can you see this on the pay outs and tax rate. microsoft is a perfect example. you know, they weren't issued a dividend and sitog 10s of billion and tax rate went down and they issued a dividend. >> just making the rich less rich doesn't help the economy. >> why do you want to punish the more successful people. going back to rich's point. one of the problems is that they have all of the cash on the balance sheet that they are not reinvesting because interest rates is so loww. it is earning one percent. if it funneled back to plant and equipment it would be unemployment far before 8 percent. >> rick unger taking up all of these points. you are holding up one side . taking all in account how do you respond.

>> i am going to awarted one point to vick toria in the damage to senior. that is an excellent point. steve, the roaring '90s under clinton happened in the first term and he did not lower the capitol gains taxes until the second year in the second term when a republican congress forced him to do it. he did it begrudging. >> it is like the soviet arguing history. the economy slowed down when he put tax increase and not enough to help george bush. and company started to roar . clinton put the tax increases in and we go in a recession nearly. he slowed the recovery down and 95 and 96 it got back on track again. >> emac. i know people dump on bush.

but job rates grew under bush. >> that's true. and absolutely, david. and going back to clinton. the '93 tax hike it brought in only a third of what they expected it to be. and the cuts in capitol gains and death tax. i don't want our tax money and warren buffet or george soris money wasted and middle income people who have capitol gains's money wasted either. >> bill clinton did two things. he advocated a strong dollar policy and big on free trade a big support of nasa and that lowered pric and acted as a tax cut. >> and rich, let's focus the jobs. out in silicon valley. how would that directly affect job growth? are there a lot of start ups in silicon valley that depend on the tax rates being low?

>> well, you know, you want risk capitol. risk capitol is how you get everything from apple, to google and all we are seeing in silicon valley right now . so we talked about dividends, but the capitol gains rate going up to 40 percent is ruined for the kind of venture capitol investment that we need to keep america as the leading edge of the global economy. >> look at the folks who signed on to this letter. they go over all industries . they must have looked at the factos this. >> they did indeed and they know about the price and burden and what you take risk and punished for it why would you want to lock up money in companies. you want it to go back to investors on to so it can work. gm reinvested 6 billion and wasted it and paid it off in

the dividend. it was worth 26 billion dollars. >> should be no tax on dividends it is double taxation. you are taxings the corporation and share holders again. >> we have leave it at that. toyota is getting ready to speed pass gm as the most profitable automaker on the planet. we debate and you decide coming up. may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. but if you take away the faces on the trees... take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're left with more electric trucks. more recycled shipping materials... and a growing number of lower emissions planes... which still makes for a pretty enchanted tale. ♪ la la la [ man ] whoops, forgot one... [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. fedex. solutions that matter.

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uk arrested on terrorism charges and explosive substances found in the garage of their home. 100 homes had to be valk -- evacuated as a precution . no details on whether they were acting alone or linked to a terror group. we'll give the results. i will see you back here at 1:00 p.m. eastern in america's news headquarters. keep it on fox toyota's in the fast lane, selling more cars than gm in the first quarter and the japp nease automaker is on track to pede pass general motor's profits despite gm getting 50 billion in taxpayer bail outs. this is more proof that bailing out private companies don't work. >> that's right. more you bail out companies like this, the more the economy leaks it is it a pay off to the united autoworkers

union . every major airline in country went through a reorganization . why couldn't the automakers have done it? >> rick unger it is not only the airlines, steel industry went throughh. and comparing it with the airline is not unreasonable. but you have to be careful not to look at it in a vacume. the situation with the airline came at a time when the nation was not facing a crisis . they were able to find private money to get back on their feet. the auto industry, that collapse came at the moment when the nation was facing a serious financial problem. had it gone down impact would have been far less than the airline. it is arguable that the entire country would have suffered and it was not the same

situation. fair enough when you use the airlines as an example . put it in the context. >> we are now hearing from quarters that it is a smashing success. look at what the stock alone has don. the stock was selling at 33 dollars a share and now selling at 22 dollars a hair and has to sell for 53 dollars a share for taxpayer to break even. >> never will happen. too much power was begin to the uaw in the reorganization. and see what is happening. you have some plans where nonurnings ah -- uaw workers took a pay cut. they are upon part of the uaw . meanwhile they are receiving tons of money and yet because of the reorganization gm can't close the plants until after 2014. morgan, to the union point,

unions didn't have to take any kind of bad medicine at all. it was all the taxpayer. and i have my personal feelings about the bail outs. whether it is a failure or not. it is too early to say. going back to the stock market. treasury owns 26 percent of the stock and until it sells it off whether for a loss or not. we can't say it was a complete failure or not . going back in the earlier point, toyota's profits against gm, i don't think you can make that comparison. there is recalls and earthquakes and which is why the ceo is looking to push it so strongly this year. you need to look at ford versus gm. >> focus on gm itself here. the government already sold billions worth of stock and a loss to taxpayers. >> yeah, it is pointing out stock is down 50 percent

during a time when the overall stock market is up on a relative basis. gm is worse than it appears. why bring up toyota. compare general motor to ford. ford is hitting the ball out of the park and developing the great cars like the focus. that's all you need. definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different resultings. you have a uaw dominated company you will not get different resultings. >> what we expect here. the bail out a company, that company is no longer in the business of profit. they are serving political masters that don't care and something like the chevy volt. and the tragedy of the bail out and if gm was allowed to go bankrupt it doesn't disappear but they have a clue about how on run the car company.

bailouts never work. >> chrysler is now a foreign car company . we gave fiat 40 percent of it and now they own 60 percent. it is not a u.s. car company more. >> you would have found them willing to buy pieces of gm. they have good facilities . thing of saving jobs, whose jobs? the autoworkers put out of the business and this is pure politicings, some say for political reason. >> and rick unger the government is picking winners and losers, it doesn't seem to work. >> it gets to something else. as much as you don't want to acknowledge it. sometimes in the real world, you have to choose the lesser of the two evils . what about the suppliers that are put out of business. we are not talking about unions but talking about small businesses that would have been over if it was allowed to happen.

lesser of the two evils. >> john? >> even if it is not idealogical pure. >> john, lesser of the two evilings. >> it is always evil when the government bails out something that the markets doesn't want to save. it is so much money siphoned away from the losers. capitalist system offered by failure and you rob success for the future. >> got to be the last word. did the white house admit drill, baby, drill creates job. >> have you paid your cell phone. new calls to hang up the government's billion dollar free cell phone plan. what's the matter?

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>> how much money is it going to save you? and a wild week for stockings. our informers say

>> billion dollar phone plan may be running out of the minutes soon. they are subsidizing cell phones for low income americans. surprise, surprise. they are getting several phones and selling them . others are staggering the expense of smart funds . it is multiple phones. and fundmentally ask yourself why the government is giving

out cell phones . you can get pretty cheap cell phone service and to walgreens and get a temporary phone and you don't have to pay a hundred bucks a month. this is the worst form of entitlement taxation. >> rick, you look at your at&t bill. i cont make sense of it. it is the little taxes that add up. a million may not sound like a lot. >> i don't try to read them. let's be clear. when you say taxpayer funded it is not funded. and get to what is interesting about this. this program which you may think of a social entertain was created under the

administration of ronald reagan and was reformed under the administration of obama. congress is making a fuss about this and behind the times. starting january 1st of this year. reforms by the fcc to get rid of the fraud that was taking place and make the system working better is in progress. time to complainn about this is come and gone. this is a program that was started by president reagan. >> is this program good or not? >> it is not good. it is line item . started under reagan and this should have been unplugged yesterday. the phone company like it because of multipeel lines. and the people who use it love it for multiple phones. >> morgan do you like it? >> yes, get rid of the fraud and abuses and fcc is doing that and projected they will

save 200 million this year . i say let that process happen. you want to scrap something scrap the land lines. >> there you go. >> scrap it. cell phones are a fraction of the cost of the land lines . forced economy in the western hemes fear can afford them. we americans can afford them. ronald reagan's time they didn't have the cheap cell phones we had now. >> that doesn't change the purpose of the plan. it was to make sure there was communication to the lowest earning parts of our society. that hasn't changed. >> last word. talk about a shacky market. buy the steady stocks you can depend on this is delicious okay...

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>> we are back with the safest stocks. >> scott towels and huggies.

what i like about it, sweet dividend. it is insiders that are selling off the shares right now. >> you are going for a financial firm. >> this is a regional bank. this is pretty steady. >> it is the federal reserve manipulating the interest rates. thank you for watching. keep it right here. with cheryl casone and cashin in. >> 401 k's are not okay? one union leader said they are too risky for workers . letting all worker join state run pension plans. is that