former first lady, laura bush, will be along with president h.w. bush and barbara bush as well. >> reporter: that's right. and they're, actually, maybe just wrapping it up, but they've been having lunch in the red room which is right around the corner, you know, from the east room -- megyn: no, i did not know that. >> reporter: well, you've probably been there. come on, you've got access. megyn: no, never. they don't invite me to those events. this is the first time i ever heard about the red room. >> reporter: well, let me give you info. it's near the east room. you've got three presidents, three first ladies as well as other bush family members having lunch together, the obamas and the bushes. very interesting, obviously, coming from two far different political philosophies, backgrounds. as you noted, jay carney just got a question a few moments ago about the fact that president obama has spent a good share of the last three years blaming the economic crisis, at least in part, on inheriting that from

the bush administration. jay carney was asked whether this would become a little bit awkward at lunch. take a listen. >> there are, certainly, political differences as there were between president george w. bush and former president clinton when president clinton and his family came for the unveiling of his, and first lady hillary clinton's portraits. there were differences, i'm sure, in the past. it's a small collection of people who know what it's like to sit at the desk in the oval office and have to make the kinds of decisions that a president makes. and, again, the commonality there transcends politics. >> reporter: now, you see we now have a live picture inside the east room where this portrait in just a few moments of former president george w. bush will be unveiled. both parties have come together before. in fact, george w. bush helped unveil the official portrait that hangs in the residence of the white house behind me of former president bill clinton. and so this tradition goes back and forth, and it's interesting

as well because i asked jay carney whether or not at lunch president obama may want to get a little bit of insight from george w. bush about how he took on someone from massachusetts and won re-election, carney just kind of laughed and said they're not going to be talking about politics today. megyn: i got that ask you -- i gotta ask you, does george w. bush, does laura bush, do they get to see the pictures before this moment? what if they don't like what they see? like, oh my -- wow. >> reporter: i would assume that they do because jay carney just suggested that president obama may have gotten a sneak peek before the rest of the world as well, and one would expect that former president bush got at least some sort of a sneak peek so that he's not completely surprised today. i will also note that i just bumped into one of the national park service employees who helps take care of the grounds out here who told me very excitedly that both former president bushes have carved out some time this afternoon after the ceremony to meet with some of the residence help here, some of the regular employees who have been here for years, and this

guy was really excited about it because he's been around here for a lot of administrations, and he thought it was kind of cool that the former presidents were making time not just for the powerful people around here, but some of the folks who take care of the grounds as well, megyn. megyn: yeah. all four of them lived there for several years, so it's an interesting point. ed, thank you. >> reporter: thank you. megyn: as ed just mentioned, as president obama has faced some serious challenges over the past few years, he has often pointed to his two-term predecessor for the blame. here's an example of what we have come to hear on some of those issues. >> we inherited a financial crisis unlike any that we've seen in our time. this crisis crippled private capital markets and forced us to take steps in our financial system and with our auto companies that we would not have otherwise even considered. when i first walked through the door, the deficit stood at $1.3 trillion with projected deficits of $8 trillion over the next decade. now, if we had taken office

during ordinary times, we would have started bringing down these deficits immediately. megyn: coming up, we'll speak with a former bush staffer and a former obama campaign consultant about the relationship between these two administrations and the dynamic we are likely to witness today. you know, that's one of the things we pride ourselves on here in this country, is the peaceful transition of power and the ability to sort of get along notwithstanding these ugly political jabs and that kind of thing. today we expect it to be no different, but it's an interesting optical situation for both men, so we'll talk about it in just a bit as you watch it here live. well, new stories of horror from syria today as president bashar assad desperately tries to maintain his grip on power while his own people are being slaughtered by his forces. one of the worst reports we've heard involves an 11-year-old boy who says he survived last week's massacre in hula. the rest of his family among the

more than 100 people who died that day. you'll see all the body bags right here. the little boy says soldiers came into his family home and shot his mother, his siblings and shot him. the only reason he survived to tell his story? he says he played dead. soaking his clothes with his own brother's blood. listen here. >> translator: the tanks were shooting, then some soldiers came out and entered your house? >> translator: yes. >> translator: did they knock on the door? >> translator: they fired at the lock. >> translator: then they entered? what did they do then? >> translator: the military went in, and my mother was afraid they would shoot her. they shot five bullets at her. then they shot my brother, one here, then one this his back. then i was covering myself. he came and took the cover off me, then he shot at me, and he came here. >> translator: he shot at you? >> translator: yes, but the shot fell close to you. >> translator: did you get any shrapnel from the bullet? any part of you was injured?

>> translator: yes. after they killed us, i went like this. then they stole three television sets and a vacuum and a computer. megyn: i mean, that just -- that says it all. they're murdering their own people, they're stealing are the families. syria's goth is now -- government is now denying respondent for that massacre -- responsibility for that massacre, this after a year in which the u.n. says 10,000 syrian people have been killed by this government. what should the world be doing about this crisis? what should we be doing? john bolton is the former u.s. board -- ambassador to the united nations. i've been looking forward to speaking with you, ambassador, because i feel like you've been giving it to us straight on syria. you are one person who despite your, you know, political affiliations have been saying it's very messy, you know, the thought of going into syria is very messy. and we need to be careful before

we, you know, call for that. but, ambassador, you look at that little boy, and you look at this little girl who we've been showing on this show who, for us, has become the face of the massacres and the targets, innocent children by this government, and i think a lot of americans say that's not good enough. we need to do something. >> well, these pictures are appalling, and the assad regime is carrying on in the long tradition of the assad family dictatorship in murdering its own people. the trouble is that the assad dictatorship doesn't have to worry about u.n. sanctions or violating kofi annan's cease fire or having its diplomats kicked out of the great capitals of western europe as long as russia and iran and others are protecting it, giving it financial aid, arming it and providing political cover for it. and that has been the main problem with our strategy. we have not gone to russia and iran and, basically, said you can forget about better

relations with us unless you're prepared to take steps to stop this. and so as long as assad feels protected, he's going to continue. megyn: that's the key. russia, all these countries threw their syrian ambassadors out of their countries -- including the united states this week -- after this massacre in hula. russia did not. russia, that's one country that can influence behavior in the syria, and it has declined to. now, iran's another one, but we don't have diplomatic relations with them. what should we be doing, what could we realistically do with russia to make them up the ante for syria? >> well, you know, it's even worse with russia. the russian foreign minister said earlier this week that those killings in hula were not carried out by the government, but by the opposition or at least it needed to be investigated. that's the syrian government line. so the russians are carrying a lot of water here. i think the administration should say you can forget that reset button unless you take steps to help us deal with this

in a serious way. stop arming the assad government, stop financing the assad government, and i think we should say to iran you can also forget about any negotiation over your nuclear weapons program. you are a terror state, you are aiding another terror state in suppressing its own people, and we're going to treat you accordingly. megyn: the question i have for you is, and i want to play this sound bite before i get you to answer it, but my question is why don't we, why aren't we doing those things? general jack keane was on the show the other day talking about perhaps covert cia ops to help those who are being oppressed. and the question is, why aren't we doing it? i want to take you back to what president obama said after we went into libya. now, a thousand people had been killed there, and there had been an exodus of tens of thousands. in syria 10,000 people have been killed, an exodus of almost 00,000 people -- 400,000 people, and we haven't gone this and

been providing arms. here's how president obama talked about how his decision to go into libya -- and he was comparing it to the situation that had happened years earlier in bosnia. listen. >> when people were being brutalized in bosnia in the 990s -- 1990s, it took the international community more than a year to intervene with air power to protect civilians. it took us 31 days. megyn: that was libya. different situation in syria today. >> well, that's the problem with the theory under which president obama announced our intervention in libya, the so-called responsibility to protect doctrine. it sounds very noble. the trouble is, it similarly is relatic. it does not -- rhetoric. it does not provide a real justification or basis to know when to intervene. and so in this case in syria where it's very complicated politically and very hard to do, we don't know what the

consequences of the intervention will be. and i think that is a significant point. there is a risk here if the opposition prevails that there will be a bloodbath against the ruling parties who support the assad dictatorship. i don't justify it, they've had their own bloodbaths before, but we need to be careful our weapons aren't used for that purpose. megyn: so messy in so many ways. ambassador, thank you so much for your expertise. >> thank you. megyn: well, we are trying to figure out why we are seeing a major change in tune, apparently, from one top democrat who originally said this wisconsin recall election of the governor was an important test for next november. and now says not so much, never mind. why democrats may be trying to distance themselves from this upcoming recall election. plus, fisker automotives a bust so far. now there's a new insult from

fisker to the american tax pay yet. and a fatal family feud, two sisters believed to have been murdered by their own father in this a so-called honor killing. their final moments capture inside a heart-breaking 911 call, and now word their suspected killer -- their father -- may be hiding in plain sight. we'll tell you where. c'mon dad! i'm here to unleash my inner cowboy. instead i g heartburn. [ horse neighs ] hold up partner. prilos isn't for fast relief. try alka-seltzer. it kills heartburn fast. yeehaw! a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪

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megyn: we are now just a few minutes away from an historic moment at the white house. a live look at the white house east room where president obama is about to unveil, he will host the unveiling, of the official portraits of president george w. bush and former first lady laura bush. three presidents in all will be there, three first ladies, either current or former. as i mentioned earlier, the parents of george w. bush who are also former presidents and first ladies are there, and there's a lot of history in this room. we'll bring it to you live as it happens. well, not long after a bold prediction about wisconsin's

recall election in the governor's race, the chairwoman of the democratic national committee is apparently changing her tune. here's debbie wasserman-schultz on sunday morning discussing the stakes in the effort to recall wisconsin's republican governor, scott walker. >> well, i think what's going to happen is that because of our on-the-ground operation, we've had an opportunity in this election -- because, especially, given that wisconsin's a battleground state -- just like we did in the recall elections a year ago to give this a test run. and so what i think the implications will be is that, ultimately, i think tom barrett will pull this out. but regardless, it's given the obama for america operation an opportunity to do the dry run that we need of our massive, significant, dynamic grassroots presidential campaign. megyn: and here she is shortly after she made those comments, arguably singing a different tune. >> i think, honestly, there aren't going to be any

repercussions. it's an election that is based in wisconsin, it's an election that i think is important nationally because scott walker is an example of how extreme the tea party has been when it comes to the policies that they have pushed the republicans to adopt. but i think it'll be, at the end of the day, a wisconsin-based election. megyn: michael graham is a radio host with wtkk fm and columnist for the boston herald, and alan colmes is host of the alan colmes show. >> hi. megyn: hi, guys. those are, apparently, both on sunday. one was in the morning, one was in the afternoon. in the morning it was this is an opportunity to have a dry run, the democrat's going to run, gives us a chance to test run our grassroots operation, and she also, the committee also sent out saying of all the elections we're preparing for in 2012, one of the most important ones is in wisconsin.

then in the afternoon, it's just an election in wisconsin. why the shift? >> well, come on. we've all had sundays like that. a few too many bloody marys at the brunch. no, i'm kidding. [laughter] i used to run campaigns. when you have a special election that goes one way, it's a bellwether. when it goes the other way, meaningless. making voters vote seven times in one year which is what they've done with this nonsensical recall thing, it's going to leave people so alienated that it will have an impact in november. if president obama loses wisconsin, mitt romney is president of the united states. megyn: wow, interesting. the romney camp would very much like to pick up one of the so-called industrial states, wisconsin, michigan or pennsylvania. so if michael's right that if walker stays in office romney wins wisconsin, that would senately change romney's electoral map for the better for him. so that's why they're watching it. what do you make of --

>> well, maybe i misunderstood. michael, didn't you just say if he wins wisconsin in the fallen -- >> exactly. >> not if he wins, you know, the recall, he wins. i think that debbie wasserman-schultz although, believe it or not, i am not the spokesman for all democrats -- megyn: you should be. >> thank you very much, megyn. megyn: i think you'd do an excellent job. >> she said it's a test of the campaign apparatus, but not necessarily predictive of what's going to happen in november. she said tested the campaign in the morning, in the afternoon she said i don't think it's predictive of what's going to happen. i don't want see it's a particular conflict, but i could understand why it might be perceived that way, and i think michael is right. it's not necessarily a bellwether, but whoever wins will herald it and say look and see, whichever side wins will say -- megyn: i mean, i think, you know, you could win that point if she hadn't sent out this mailer. i mean, the first comments that are just about -- there you

go -- that are just about we're going to test our ground game, that's one thing, but in this mailer put out by deborah wasserman-schultz, of all the elections we're preparing for in 2012, one of the most important ones is in wisconsin. >> yeah. megyn: she goes on to say that winning in wisconsin sends a powerful message to the far right extremists. i mean, that sounds like she thinks they're a real state in that election -- >> i don't think necessarily that predicts what's going to happen this november. everything she said is true, but it's not necessarily predictive of what happens the first week in november. megyn: you tell me, michael -- >> she's all over the map. megyn: the polls are showing some distance between that republican, walker, and his challenger. >> walker is probably going to win on tuesday almost certainly, number two, she's got to serve the unions who are very upset that they haven't had more support nationally. so the governors' association, for example, just dumped some money in the last 24 hours. blint, it's going to be -- bill clinton, it's going to be

announced, is going to be going into wisconsin. probably going to use, but we need the unions to know we love you in november. >> only two governors have been recall inside history, by the way, so it'd be something if it happens. megyn: it's very unusual. guys, thank you both so much. when we come back, a historic moment at the white house you do not want to miss. not every day you see this. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, you won't just find us online, you'll also find us in person, with dedicated support teams at over 500 branches nationwide. so when you call or visit, you can ask for a name you know. because personal service starts with a real person. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our support teams are nearby, ready to help. it's no wonder so many investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade.

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megyn: well, we are just minutes away now from a historic moment at the white house. live look for you here at the east room where we just saw the former president, george h.w. bush, and former first lady barbara bush escorted into the room. president obama is about to host the unveiling of the official portraits of president george w. bush and our former first lady, laura bush. three presidents in this room. how about that? and three first ladies. whole lot of history going on in

here. we saw them just come in -- this is, obviously, not their first time doing this because as the former president himself, george herbert walker bush, would have his own official portrait as well as his wife, and former president george h.w. bush is 87 years old, about to turn 88 if my math is correct. he's been having some trouble, having some trouble walking in recent, in recent weeks and months. we saw him in a wheelchair as he came into the room with our former first lady. and what we understand will happen is there'll be some introductory remarks, then president obama will come out, and then george w. bush and the former first lady will unveil their own portraits. let's watch for a minute. >> accompanied by the 43rd president of the united states, george w. bush, and mrs. laura bush. ♪ [applause]

>> good amp. i'm fred ryan, chairman -- megyn: fred ryan is ceo of politico and, also, works for thal britton company, and he, personally, has done a lot for the reagan library and with ronald and nancy reagan and is going to make some two duct ri remarks. of course, you though who president obama is, you know who george h.w. bush and george w. bush are. so he'll make some remarks, then we understand that president obama will take to the microphone. just want to give you that sort of preview, and we'll take a listen to mr. ryan as he

introduces the events. >> to the north of the white house and historic decatur house, we have just launched the new david rubenstein national center for white house history. next year to the south of the white house we will open a newly-redesigned white house visitor' center. it will give the millions of visitor to washington each year a chance to gain a broader understanding of life in the white house. if we can just acquire something on the east and west, we'll have the place surrounded. [laughter] the other mission of the association is to provide funds to preserve the white house public rooms and enhance its incomparable collection of decorative and fine arts. over the five decades and ten presidents since our founding, the association is proud to have provided nearly $40 million in financial support for refurbishing and making important acquisitions for the white house. through the portraits of our presidents and fist ladies -- first ladies, it's a wonderful tradition that here in america's

house our country honors those who have honored us. the tradition began with the acquisition of george washington's portrait in 1800. it was purchased by the united states government. it was viewed as such an important national treasure, it was the object of dolly madison's greatest concerns when the british burned the white house in 1814. the white house historical association's been privileged to commission the official portrait of every president and first lady over the last 50 years and to acquire historical portraits of those who were previously missing there the white house collection. in our digital world where so many images are mere flashes on a screen, these enduring portraits of great americans by acclaimed artists are lasting tributes to our presidents and first ladies and will forever be part of the white house collection. today the portraits of president george w. bush and first lady laura bush will be added to this unique collection of those who have occupied this house and served our nation with

distinction. and to those great presidential portrait artists whose works here include gilbert stewart, john singer sergeant, we now ad john howard sanden. so today's event, may it once again prompt one of those great debates that's taken place often at the white house. it's not a debate over issues or between parties, it's a debate as to whether the portrait actually looks like the president and first lady. [laughter] and we will soon find that out. it is now my distinct pleasure to introduce the president of the united states. [applause] >> thank you. thank you so much. thank you. please, please, everybody have a seat. well, good afternoon, everybody. thank you, fred, for that introduction.

to president george h.w. bush and barbara, to all the members of the bush family who are here, it is a great privilege to have you here today. and to president and mrs. bush, welcome back to the house that you called home for eight years. the white house is many things at once; it's a working office, it's a living museum, it's an enduring symbol of our democracy. but at the end of the day when the visitor go home and the lights go down, a few of us are blessed with the tremendous honor to actually live here. i think it's fair to say that every president is acutely aware that we are just temporary residents. we're representers here. -- renters here. we're charged with the upkeep until our lease runs out. but we also leave a piece of ourselves in this place. and today with the unveiling of

the portraits next to me, the president and mrs. bush will take their place alongside men and women who built this country and those who worked to perfect it. it's been said that no one can ever truly understand what it's like being president until they sit behind that desk and feel the weight and responsibility for the first time. and that is true. after three and a half years in office and much more gray hair, i have a deeper understanding of the challenges faced by the presidents who came before me. including my immediate predecessor, president bush. in this job no decision that reaches your desk is easy, no choice you make is without costs. no matter how hard you try, you're not going to make everybody happy. i think that's something president bush and i both learned pretty quickly. [laughter] and that's why from time to time that's why those of us of who

have had the privilege to hold this office turn to the only people who know the feeling. we may have our differences politically, but the presidency transcends those differences. we all love this country, we all want america to succeed. we all believe that when it comes to moving this country forward, we have an obligation to pull together. and we all follow the humble, heroic example of our first president, george washington, who knew that a true test of patriotism is the willingness to freely and graciously pass the reins of power on to somebody else. that's certainly been true of president bush. the months before i took the oath of office were a chaotic time. we knew our economy was in trouble, our fellow americans were in pain. but we wouldn't know until later just how breathtaking the financial be crisis had been -- the financial crisis had been and still over those two and a half months in the midst of that

crisis president bush, his cabinet, his staff, many of you who are here today, went out of your ways -- george, you went out of your way -- to make sure that the transition to a new administration was as seamless as possible. president bush understood that rescuing our economy was not just a democratic or republican issue, it was a american priority. i'll always be grateful for that. the same is true for our national security. none of us will ever forget where we were on that terrible september day when our country was attacked. all of us will always remember the image of president bush standing on that pile of rubble, bull horn in hand, conveying extraordinary strength and resolve to the american people, but also representing the strength ask resolve of the american people -- and resolve of the american people.

>> because protecting our country is neither the work or task of one person at one time, it's an ongoing obligation we all share. finally, on a personal note, michelle and i are grateful to the entire bush family for their guidance and example during our own transition. george, i will always remember the gathering you hosted for the all the living past presidents, your kind words of encouragement. plus you left me a really good tv sports package. [laughter] i use it. [laughter]

laura, you reminded us that the most rewarding thing about living in this house isn't the title or the power, but a chance to shine a spotlight on the issues that matter most. and the fact that you and george raised two smart, beautiful daughters, first as girls visiting their grandparents and then as teenagers preparing to head out into the world, that, obviously, gives michelle and i tremendous hope as we try to do the right thing by our own daughters in this slightly odd atmosphere that we've created. jenna and barbara, we will never forget the advice you gave sasha and malia as they began their lives in washington. they told them to surround themselves with loyal friends, never stop doing what they love, to slide down the banisters occasionally, to play sardines on the lawn, to meet new people and try new things and try to absorb everything and all of it,

and i can tell you that malia and sasha took that advice to heart. it really meant a lot to them. one of the greatest strengths of our democracy is our ability to peacefully and routinely go through transitions of power be. it speaks to the fact that we've always had leaders who believe in america and everything it stands for above all else. leaders and their families who are willing to devote their lives to the country that they love. this is what we'll think about every time we pass these portraits just as millions of other visitor will do in the decades and perhaps even the centuries to come. i want to thank john howard sanden, the artist behind these beautiful works, for his efforts, and on behalf of the american people, i want to thank most sincerely president and mrs. bush for their extraordinary service to our country. and now i'd like to invite them on stage to take part in the presentation.

[applause] [applause] >> thank you. sit down.

[applause] >> sit down. behave yourselves. mr. president, thank you for your warm hospitality, madam first lady thank you so much for inviting our rowdy friends to my hanging. laura and i are honored to be here. mr. vice president thank you for coming. we are overwhelmed by your hospitality, and thank you for feeding the bush family, all 14 members of us who are here. i want to thank our girls for coming. i thank mom and dad, brother, sister, in-laws, aunts and uncles. i appreciate you taking your time. i know you are excited as laura and me to be able to come become here, and particularly thank the people who helped make this house a home for us for eight

years, the white house staff. i want to thank fred ryan and the white house hi historical association and bill almond the white house curator. i am pleased that my portrait brings an interesting symmetry to the white house collection. it now starts and ends with a george w. when the british burned the white house as fred mentioned in 1814, dolly madison famously saved this portrait of the first george w. [laughter] now, michelle, if anything happens, there is your man. [laughter]

[applause] >> i am also pleased, mr. president, that when you are wandering these halls, as you wrestle with tough decisions you'll now be able to gaze at this portrait and ask, what would george do? [laughter] >> i am honored to be hanging near a man who gave me the greatest gift possible, unconditional love, and that would be number 41. [applause]

>> i want to thank john howard stanton for agreeing to use his considerable talents to paint my likeness. you've done a fine job with a challenging subject. in the portrait there is a painting called "a charge to keep" it hung in the oval office for eight years of my presidency. i asked john to include it because it reminds me of the wonderful people with whom i was privileged to serve, whether they served in the cabinet, or on the presidential staff, these men and women, many of whom are here, worked hard and served with honor. we had a charge to keep, and we kept the charge. it is my privilege to introduce the greatest first lady ever --

sorry, mom. [laughter] >> would you agree to a tie? [laughter] >> a woman who brought such grace and dignity and love in this house. [applause] >> thank you all. thank you, everybody. thanks, everybody. thank you all. thanks, everyone. [applause] >> thank you all. okay. that's enough. thank you very much, thank you, darling. thank you president and mrs. obama, thank you for your kindness and consideration today. it was really gracious of you to invite us back to the white

house to hang a few family pictures. and i'm sure you know nothing makes a house a home like having portraits of its former occupants staring down at you from the walls. [laughter] >> this is not the first time i've had the opportunity to confront an artistic like myself. a few years just after the 2008 election a friend sent me something he'd found in the gift shop of the national constitutional center in philadelphia. it was a laura bush bobble head doll. he said he found it on a clearance shelf. [laughter] >> but i'm flat erred an flaterred and grateful to know this has a permanent home and thanks to the masterful talent of john sandon i like it a lot better than i do the bobble head

dog. thank you very much, john howard sandon, you're terrific to work with, and thanks to elizabeth and your family who joined us today. thank you very much, john. [applause] >> and of course it's meaningful to me as a private person to know that these portraits will be on view at the white house, that my portrait will hang just down the hall from my mother-in-law, and that george's portrait will hang very close to his dad's. but what is more meaningful is it's meaningful to me as a citizen. this was our family's home for eight years. it was our home but it wasn't our house. this house belongs to the people whose portraits will never hang here, the ordinary and not so ordinary people whose lives

inspired us and whose expectations guided us during the years that we lived here. in this room are many of the people who stood by us as we faced the tragedy of september 11th, and who worked with us in the years after. thanks to each and every one of you for your service to our country. [applause] i hope others will see in this portrait what i see, a woman who was honored and humbled to live in the white house during a period of great challenge, and who will never forget the countless american faces who make up the true portrait of that time. thank you all very much. thanks so much. and thank you, michelle. if you want to come up.

[applause] >> thank you very much. [applause] >> i don't think we have enough tissue to go around. jenna and barbara are just a mess. but i want to thank president and mrs. bush for joining us today. i'd like to take this opportunity to thank laura for providing such a wonderful model of strength and grace for me to follow as first lady. it is an interesting job and it's just been amazing to learn

from your example, not just as a first lady, but as a mother of two wonderful daughters. you know, you're on the other side of where we hope to be in a couple of years, two daughters that sit up straight and cry when -- [laughter] >> -- and think lovingly about their mom and their dad. we are working towards that goal, but you've done a terrific job. [laughter] >> i also want to echo barack. we continue b couldn't be more thankful for the warmth and graciousness that both of you showed, all of you showed our family when we moved in three years ago. it is truly, truly a privilege for us to occupy this house, and hopefully we are seeing th setting the same example of warmth and love and hope that you all have provided as well. the warmth is truly reflected in these portraits, and i promise

you. [laughter] >> i promise, i'm going straight to the first. and i'm sure it will be closer, right down the stairs. i'll get right to it. [laughter] >> i'm thrilled for all of the white house visitors who will soon have the chance to enjoy them as well. and i'm thrilled for both of you as you join these incredible americans whose portraits are already displayed here at the white house. socon tkpwrasocon tkpwrat lacings again. congratulations on the work you have done, the example you've provided to the country and what it means to be an american family. we are so happy and proud and honored to be apart. with that it is my khres you are to invite you all to join us for a reception right outside in the state room. now it's time to eat. thank you all so much.

[applause] megyn: what a moment, right? that did not disappoint. you heard president obama saying that the peaceful transition of power is one of the greatest strengths of democracy. this is og that all americans can be proud of. for all the partisan ranker that we see in politics today, at the presidential contests, that we saw the last time around, even with one president having some criticisms of the former president, on a day like today they are just americans, they are men and women who shared some of the most important jobs in the world and have a special bond because of it. joining me now for a bit of a reaction is marriage reclifton a former consultant to the obama 2008 campaign and principal of clifton consulting. brad blakeman, former assistant to george w. bush. you were invited to this event but you had to be there super early if you wanted to anticipate and you had some things. your loss is our gain.

you know i think we started off the hour showing some of the criticism that president obama has leveled at your former boss, and that is real and he's done that and people know, i mean that happens sometimes in politics. but today was a day about the presidency, and how special america is when it comes to the transition of power and when it comes to how our leaders treat one another as human beings. >> that's right. it sets us apart from any other nation. we've all had our fights and political differences. at the end of the day we are all americans, we believe in the institutions, customs of the president and nothing says that more than the event we just witnessed. let me say, i was nevermore proud of the president i served, every day i served. this is probably the only time where president obama will frame the bushes where they are willing participants. it's a day when all americans can feel good about our country and our president and the presidents who have served.

megyn: margerie, you tell me as someone who has advised the obama campaign, even those in the country who weren't fans of president bush politically and were happy to see his presidency come to an end, do you think people can get past that now? do you think that people can look at him and the former first lady with respect, and with a fondness that we have for so many of our former presidents and first ladies? >> absolutely. i think that every president regardless of what you think of their politics is a unique person, and what they go through in the presidency, as president barack obama said, we've got the gray hair to show for it. i think what was most moving for me this day is what families have to contribute as part of the white house. i think that is what is so beautiful about this day, having the first lady speak about it, listening to both presidents

about the struggles and getting past an unreasonably partisan time for our country and to acknowledge what is happening in politics and it's not just one presidency, it's something that we bear from presidency to presidency. at the end of the day people appreciate the humanity of everyone who serves in that office and what a unique seat it is. and i thought it was a really beautiful speech. megyn: i want to ask the same question of you, brad, you've been and open critic of president obama. this showed us a different side of the president. this showed us a different side of president obama where he was generous toward his predecessor and you saw more of a man who was a little honest about the challenges of being in that office and talked about how we may have our differences, but the presidency transcends those and all the things your former boss to make his transition into the role a little easier. does it soften you at all towards the man, barack obama.

>> i have great respect for barack obama the man, i differ with him politically. as a candidate he can only imagine what it's like to be president. that all changes on january 20th at 12:01am when he becomes the president. things he could only opine about, now he has knowledge of. it changes the individual. you could see that today in his mannerism, in his speech toward the president. there is a kinship in that small fraternity who has served as president. we have a handful of living presidents. only they can know what they feel inside, what they know. there is a comrade dewhether you are a republican or democrat. megyn: i don't seem to inject any measure of unhappiness into this discussion. i was at barack obama's tphug ration and when president bush and laura bush came out and george h. bush and barbara bush came out they were booed by several people in that audience that day. i was there and i witnessed it myself. it's an unfortunate moment

because this is a former president, whether you like his policies or not. watching george bush junior getting choked up with his father, in a wheelchair, a spokesperson said his legs don't work like he wants them to any more, do you think there is a softening by folks that didn't like or don't like these men. >> sure, time heels all. you learn quickly when you're in office that you really can't win everybody. that is true of any administration. we all live and learn. again i liked that they highlighted the things that the bush family did, or george w. bush did to lay the groundwork on where we are from a national security standpoint. there's been a healing process in terms of the economy, what was built and what we're trying to do now. it's not about one presidency, there are problems that we bare as a nation. i like that president obama gave

credit to president bush to help pave the way and transition him into the presidency. i think president bush would be eupl pathetic with everything president obama is dealing with in terms of the economy. megyn: he's been very careful to not criticize president obama. you see that ceremony, it makes you proud to be and american. we are taking your thoughts on it, what did you think? we are interested in hearing from the most partisan of you. does it soften you at all, those of you who dislike or like both presidents, does it soften you at all? troubling new numbers on the economy unfortunately. we have got those numbers in three minutes as well as a look at what it could mean for this country, not to mention the upcoming presidentialee election, there is a matter of that coming up in november. the attorney general finding

himself criticized today on what people are calling, get out the vote effort. >> it is absurd, it is irresponsible. this is the attorney general of the united states making this claim, he doesn't name names, he doesn't name organizations, and here he is having meetings with a congressional black caucus. glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.

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megyn: fox news alert brand-new economic indicators how the today putting the obama campaign in a tough spot after months of hearing the economy is now moving in the right direction these numbers suggest the opposite. that's where we begin this brand-new hour of "america live." welcome, everybody, i'm megyn kelly. first up the labor department reporting a spike in unemployment claims to a five-week high and the big one comes tomorrow, that is the may unemployment rate. but the more telling number according to the economists may be how much the economy has slowed. in the first quarter of 2012. growing at just 1.9%. that is much less than earlier estimates and a dramatic drop from the 3% growth at the end of

2011. what does this mean for our financial future? not to mention the presidential race. joining me right now, standby we are going to have chris stirewalt in a moment, you can see him standing there. we are getting his audio fixed. we like to keep you on the edge of your seats. as well as simon constable who is a journalist for the "wall street journal." you put into perspective for us if you could this 1.9% growth rate, because what they are saying is we need to be at 3% i guess to sort of maintain the level, and we are at 1.9. >> 1.9, we are slowing down. the economy is slowing down, and in my view it's going to get a whole lot worse and that is partly because of the disaster in europe that we're seeing, we are seeing a sort of slow motion strain wreck with that economy, basically all of the euro zone and britain contracting and there is no way that the u.s. will escape that.

that will be bad for jobs creation here. megyn: what is in there, that 1.9%, what does it mean? what is in there? >> what is in there is the value of all the stuff that we buy, so that's goods and services, that is when you go and buy a loaf of bread, or when you get a haircut, or when you buy a car, and there's adjustments for imports and exports, but that's broadly it. megyn: it shows a lack of consumer confidence to some extent x we saw in the consumer confidence index. chris i want to ask you. because now i'm told you can participate. >> i can. megyn: i want to ask you what it means politically. we are looking at the latest polls and this is not a surprise to maybe, abc news, cbs, all of them by far, by far the number one issue to voters in this presidential election is the economy. >> sure. and look, you've heard the president in recent days go out and try to manage expectations on these numbers, and talking about head winds, and just as we

heard -- just as you guys were talking about the problems in european those things. he is trying to manage expectations on this. we have seen this movie, megyn two times before the two previous years, good signs in the first quarter start giving way to bad signs in the second and third kwaeurters, people get anxious and recovery summer turns into a serious case of the blahs, and we know this and have talked about it before. if the president has a bad second quarter on the economy it's going to be easy for mitt romney to come in and say i'm the mr. fix it and i can turn this buggy around. megyn: what is the likelihood of the second quarter improving or doing even worse? i heard one report saying that the numbers back in the winter were actually better than expected because it was warm and people were working construction and so on where they normally might not have had those jobs. now you can expect it to guy down. i read a report from the ap suggesting things are going to get better this summer. you tell me. >> the optimists are wrong, they

haven't done enough research, it's going to get worse. it goes to the crisis in europe, declining consumer confidence. one thing i would say about the forthcoming election is that jobs will be it. it's not just the economy, it's specifically jobs, how hard is it to get a job? and to some extent the numbers we get for unemployment slightly mask that. i think the raoeurb real issue is if you want a job and you're willing to work can you get one? if you can't, then i don't think you'll be very happy with the incumbent president. megyn: chris what matters really matter? the unemployment rate they say it is coming down. olgtss say it'others say it's coming down because people are leaving the workforce. the growth rate is anemic it needs to be stronger. if you accept those numbers barack obama should be losing significantly in the polls, but he's not, it's neck-and-neck. what number matters? >> i would leave it to simon and

the wise men of the economy what numbers out there really matter. the number that i watch is right track, wrong track. what percentage of americans think america is on the right track, and what phers averag percentage of americans think it's on the wrong track. people are smart enough to ignore the minutia of politics for a longtime. they go through the summer, go on vacations and ignore the politicians. on labor day if americans say i am not satisfied with the way things are going and the other guy seems plausible they will do it, they will toss out an incumbent president. if obama is down, if he has the right track number down in the 30s doesn't matter what people say now he's not going to be able to get the job done in the fall. megyn: th- that's interesting. as love as we like to talk about polls, you have to wait and see which ones matter. you like a little sneak peak no matter how inaccurate it turns out to be. thank you both. i don't know, what else do we

have but the daily polls to tell us how the american people feel. they'll find some measure . turning now to the housing market where there has been some movement. mortgage rates just dropped to new record lows. can they go even lower? they are down to 3.75%. despite the drop home sales remain well below healthy levels, partly because many people don't have th the bigger down payments they are insisting on now, or the higher credit ratings that the banks require. have you applied for a mortgage lately? follow-up now on a controversy we brought to you yesterday, scholarship money that was meant for the children of 9/11 victims used instead to help plug california's gaping budget hole. they basically stole it. they stole from the children of the 9/11 victims. the money was generated by a special, we will never forget license plate out in california. but only a tiny fraction of the 15 million raised has gone directly to these children and no money has been awarded to

scholarships in 7 years. tell that to the people who are paying extra money so they can have a specialty license plate to help the children. california governor jerry brown is calling for an audit, they say he's guilty as well as ace predecessor arnold schwarzenegger. the lat latest word out of california today, the dmv, it's now calling it loans, will be repaid. trace gallagher, it's a bit of a different story from what we heard from the dmv yesterday. >> reporter: the state got caught redhanded here and now they are trying to apologize kind of. but the bottom line is they are still misleading people. as we sit here today they are still advertising on all their printed material, that these 9/11 license plates, the we will never forget plates is helping children of 9/11 victims. because of this controversy they have taken it off the website but the state knows full well they haven't funded these scholarships in more than seven

years. the program has collected in total $15 million, right? 8 85% of that money was used to be used for antiterror projects. only 40% of the money went for that purpose. 15% was to be used to pay for the scholarships, not bad, right $2.5 million, except here is the number. this is how much has gone to scholarships $21,381. here is the department of motor vehicles. >> well the governor has had to certainly make some very tough decisions in terms of not only balancing the budget but funding much needed programs such as antiterrorist activities in particular in the state of california. these particular loans will be repaid. >> reporter: but the question is will they be repaid? because there is no deadline when they should be repaid. now a lot of california authorities are saying now is not really the time to pay those things back because we really don't have the money. we should note that the license

plates are 90 bucks to get them originally and 40 bucks a year to maintain them. the program takes in $1.5 million a year still. those four planes on 9/11 were all headed to california. megyn: $21,000 paid out of how much? >> reporter: they were supposed to get $2.5 million. 15% of the 15 million collected. they've spent 21 grand on scholarships and haven't funded the program in seven years. megyn: as nana would say, can you spare it? thanks, trace. >> reporter: sure. megyn: unbelievable. new twists today in the growing controversy over u.s. senate candidate elizabeth warn's claim that she has native-american heritage. a group of cherokee indians is now calling on the senate candidate to explain herself, saying her claims are offensive and untrue. we'll speak to the woman leading that charge in just a bit, yeah, three minutes. imagine taking the children to a

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megyn: fox news alert as g.o.p. candidate mitt romney makes a surprise appearance at the solyndra solar plant. today's event comes on the same day as the president's chief political adviser talks about mitt romney's time at bain capital. they are already taking on a major role in this presidential race as both -p candidates try to hammer the other on their financial management history. mitt romney and republicans have been pointing to solyndra as an example of president obama's mismanagement to direct dollars to save companies that wind up failing as some see as a counter argument to the president's attack on mitt romney's time at

bain capital. a new twist today to a controversy that senate candidate elizabeth warn may wish to go away. the democratic candidate for ted kennedy's seat in massachusetts, which is held by republican scott brown, finds herself in a firestorm. they say the harvard professor warn once listed herself as having minority status claiming she is part cherokee indian. harvard went out and touted her as a native-american hire and that's not the only university that did that. she's had problems proving that claim. 150 indians have formed an online group called cherokees demand the truth calling for her to set the record straight. they said, quote ...

megyn: twla barnes is the cherokee genealogist who sparked this online effort and who is behind it. thank you for being here. i know that you believe, you say that you would like her to acknowledge that her family story isn't true. she maintains her great, great, great grandmother was cherokee. how do you know that it isn't true? >> there is no documentation to support her claims. her ancestors were always recorded as white and they are never found living among the cherokee people. megyn: where is the harm? >> excuse me? megyn: where is the harm in her having done this? she said she never checked a box to get into harvard law school

as a professor or any other university. yes, she now acknowledges them that she did tell them she was a native-american after she got in she claims. wrist the harm in what she has done? >> the harm comes when people misrepresent indian people, and they aren't entitled to do that. megyn: i mean, do you feel that she is -- that she unfairly took a spot of a native-american? why is it so important to you that she come out and disavow what she maintains is a fact, that she has some cherokee blood in her? >> because, when you're cherokee you grow up and every day you meet people who believe they have cherokee ancestry, and if you research you find that they don't. it is such a common myth in this country that cherokee people are

being misrepresented, and individuals like elizabeth what are ear warren go out and find other individuals who have no tie to cherokee history or the community but they believe this and they form tribes, i guess you'd call it, and they do all kinds of things that could be illegal, could be unethical, and they do it in the name of the cherokee people. and that's where the harm comes in. megyn: it looks like right now, in terms of the politics of this. and i know that is not really what you're about, but right now the voters of massachusetts seem deadlocked on these two candidates. the polls have them neck-and-neck. this is after weeks of this controversy. they seem to be saying they don't really care whether she falsely claimed to be part native-american. why in your view should they care?

>> they care when swu sw-b fraudulently claims to be a military veteran. they care when when someone comes to the united states illegally and claims to be an american citizen. any time somebody misrepresents themselves america should care. megyn: she said it was family lore. my family tells me i'm irish, i have an irish last name. i never checked witness a genealogist, i never checked it on any box either. she said i didn't do a forensic investigation on it, it's something my family told me my whole life. why is that not an acceptable answer to you. >> because she did list herself as a minority in the legal directories. she allowed herself to be part of a study of women of color, so not only did she just take this family story and believe it, she used it, and represented herself as a woman of color, when she

shouldn't have done that. megyn: i know that you've got this website now, you've got this facebook group going to try and -- as you say, have her admit that her family story isn't true. are you satisfied with her response that it's time to focus on the important issues facing massachusetts? >> we are not satisfied, because she still clings to this story, and as long as -- she is very high profile. if she is allowed to get away with this. then everybody in the united states who makes a claim of cherokee ancestry with absolutely no proof will think that it's fine to do and they'll go check the box. megyn: twila, than that you so much for being here. coming up a new controversy for attorney general eric holder after he tells the council of black churches that their sacred right to vote is under attack this election year. just ahead we'll look at what

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megyn: fox news alert and the jury has reached a verdict in john edwards corruption case. despite all odds many people were talking about a deadlocked jury after several days of deliberations with no results,

and they have a verdict, and you will hear it here in moments. he is accused of using cash from his failed presidential campaign coffers to hide an a fair he was having with reille hunter, and their loved child, i don't like that term, their baby daughter. he faces 30 years in prison if found guilty on the charges. jonathan serrie has been following this from the beginning in greensboro. jonathan, so they have a verdict? >> reporter: they do have a verdict but we may not know what it is for another 15 minutes. federal marshals had told us that once the jury arrived at a verdict they would give a 15-minute warning to allow all of the attorneys and reporters to go back into the courtroom, and then the judge would bring the jury in and the for man would announce the verdict, so we don't know yet whether or not the jury has found john edwards guilty of any of the six counts against him, but we do know that the jury has reached a verdict.

about five minutes ago the marshals heard a knock on the door to the jury room, they checked in on the jurors, and the jurors indicated that they have indeed reached a verdict. but, again, megyn, it may be 15 minutes before we learn what that verdict is. but obviously some very exciting developments in this case. our first clue that there was something different about today is when the jurors took their lunch break. they indicated to the judge that they wanted to continue their deliberations, and there was sort of a debate among awful the legal experts and reporters as to whether there was an indication that the jurors felt they were closing in on a verdict or whether it was because this is the first day that the at jurors were not present. the jury had been eating lunch previously with the at jurors who were also in the courthouse, but not allowed to participate in the deliberations, but of course the judge excused the alternates yesterday, which in retrospect may have been another indication that the jury was reaching a verdict.

but now we are hearing from the jurors that they have indeed reached a verdict and within minutes we should learn what it is. megyn: it's always a very exciting moment in a trial when you get to this point. and for me as a recovering lawyer as i like to say it's always exciting because you see the wheels of justice working. you don't like a jury to get deadlocked, because you know how much taxpayer money went into this trial? and both sides, the blood, sweat and tears. now they've done their job, they've reached a verdict, which will be respected, no matter what it is, and jonathan, this was -- it did appear in the final hours that it may be against all odds that they came to this verdict, because what day are we now on deliberations? >> we are on day nine. that was leading some of the legal experts to believe that this jury was deadlocked, that there were perhaps, one, two, three holdouts that could not agree with the rest of the jurors. and so some people were predicting that this would end in a hung jury, or at the very least the judge would have to

read the jury an allen charge, that is where the judge inch strubts the jur instructs the jury about all the time and money that has going into the case and sends them back into the room to continue the deliberations, and to try to reach a verdict with the understanding that the case may have to be tried all over again with a different jury, which won't be any better than the previous jury. it appears this is not going to be the case and the jury has indeed reached a verdict. megyn: we've been seeing john edwards wearing a green tie every day. he won't come out and say whether this was his lucky tie. i thought i saw earlier he had a red tie on today. is he there? is reille hunter there? who he is there? >> reille hunter is not there. john edwards is there with his daughter kate who is also an attorney and is said to have provided some of his legal counsel throughout this trial. i'm told by reporters in the courtroom right now that when it

was announced that the jury had reached a verdict that kate leaned over to her father's ear and said, i love you. megyn: you know, you do forget there is a real human being on trial in this case, and if he broke the law he's going to be held accountable for it. but there is no question that his daughter was not to blame for any of this. jonathan we are going to come right become to you as we have breaking news now, a verdict has been reached by the jury looking into the corruption charges against former presidential candidate, not to mention vice presidental candidate john edwards, a former u.s. senator, on trial for his freedom. and the jury will tell us in moments right here, we'll see it together whether or not he will soon be a convicted felon. stay with me. still have doubts about taking aspirin for tough pain? listen to what mvp justin verlander thinks about it. i would say the source of most of my muscle pain

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megyn: fox news alert, a jury has just reached a verdict in the john edwards corruption case. we want to get right become to jonathan serrie who is live outside of the courthouse. jonathan. >> reporter: megyn, there is a flurry of activity outside and inside the courthouse as we speak. just minutes ago there was a knock on the door of the jury room indicating that the jurors had indeed reached a verdict. federal marshals have given a 15-minute warning to allow lawyers on both sides time to

re-enter the courtroom, as well as all of the reporters covering this case, at which point the jury will be brought out, and the foreman will announce the verdict to the judge. john edwards faces six counts of various campaign finance violations, stemming from the 2008 election cycle, allegations that he used private funds, private campaign funds and hid those funds in an effort to hide reille hunter, his pregnant mistress during the campaign. prosecutors allege that this was done to boost his chances at winning election, where as his defenders say that he had little knowledge of the money and what was done was simply done to protect his wife, elizabeth, from finding out about the a fair. we'll find out in just minutes what the jury thinks. megyn back to you. megyn: before i let you go, just give us a quick tick-tock of what is going to happen when we go back into this courtroom in moments. >> reporter: when we go back into the courtroom the jury will

announce its verdict, and they are going to announce the counts in the following order, they are going to announce whether john edwards is guilty or not guilty of illegal campaign contributions that he allegedly received from rachel bunny melon in 2007 and then the same for contributions from rachel bunny melon in 2008. then they will move onto say whether or not he is guilty of receiving illegal campaign contributions from another wealthy donor, fred baron in 2007 and then answer the same count from fred baron in 2008. then the jurors will indicate whether they have founded wards guilty of making false statements, that is hiding these alleged illegal campaign funds and failing to report them to the federal election commission, and then finally, the jury will announce whether john edwards is guilty of a count of conspiracy, that is knowingly conspiring to

receive campaign contributions in excess of the maximum individual donor cap while the candidate was running for a federal office, megyn. megyn: we will have it here as it happens in moments. we could be less than seven minutes away right now. joining me now with a preview david rivkin is a constitutional law attorney and former white house counsel. and julian este former legal counsel to the house judiciary committee and a judicial consultant who has worked on many high profile campaigns. thank you for joining us. this is a big deal. you've got a former presidential candidate, i mean this guy wanted the democratic nomination for president, captured the nomination for vice president when he was running with john kerry and is now potentially looking at 30 years in prison if convicted on these charges, which to be fair to mr. edwards have been criticized to some

extent by both republicans and democrats as potentially not being all that clear, in terms of whether he should have been charged. i want to start with you on this julien. what do you make of it, nine days into deliberations now, the jury has obviously reached a unanimous verdict. any way of handicapping it? >> nobody defends mr. edwards conduct but i think this was a terrible, terrible prosecution, and he should be acquitted. the reason for that, megyn, is that these matters of the misuse of campaign funds are always treated civilly, almost never, and perhaps never treated criminally. secondly it's not clear whether the money in question that was used to hide the affair was actually a campaign contribution as opposed to a gift from friends who were just simply trying to protect mr. edwards' reputation. so as a legal matter this should be hands down, no-brainer an acquittal. it's hard to anticipate exactly what is going through the jurors' minds emotionally. if there is a conviction it will

be because of the emotional dimension of this and the particular circumstances of edwards' affair. it will not be based on the law. megyn: i don't know about that. i'm not sure if that is the case or not, david. you tell me. i looked at what the jury was requesting. noi'll tell the jurors. i went on o'reilly, i practiced law for nine years, and i provide legal opinions sometimes. i went on o'reilly and we talked about the handicapping of the case. i thought maybe 55% not guilty, 45% guilty. now that i look at what the jury has requested in terms of the evidence, i'm not as sure. the evidence they requested all seemed very unhelpful for mr. edwards. there is no way of knowing how they will come down. you do you think it's accurate to say as julien did, david, that there is no way the law could support a guilty verdict? >> no he's not. let me say one thing in defense

much the justice department for which i had a privilege of working for a number of years, the only reason the public integrity section i believe moved forward with prosecution because they concluded that mr. edwards lied to them during the investigation phase, and that is something that the prosecutors really do not like. that, of course, is captured only in the charges or counts five and six. aside from what is formally in the bill of indictment i just think that if they felt that he was telling them the truth -- and we are not talking about necessarily even how those things were reported, but how he acted during the investigation phase, so to some extent he brought it upon himself. let me be bold and say this. i would be very surprised if he were acquitted on all of the counts. now that -- i would also say, megyn that is not the end of the process, there are some controversial instructions that the district court judge gave here and there are certainly opportunities for appeal.

i agree with julian that the technical definition of what is a campaign contribution, what isn't is very complicated but there are a lot of other moving pieces here, particularly related to conspiracy and misleading the government about what has transpired. megyn: let me ask you this. julien. i'll give you a chance tow respond. let me ask you this. what i have said before publicly is i think the biggest obstacle to the prosecution here is they have to prove he knowingly violated campaign laws, that he knew it was illegal, and he did it any way, and that is a very high standard. i think they wrote that into the law because it was the lawmakers themselves who run for office to said, let's make it as high and tough a legal standard as we can. but that is tough. as to your point, julien that the prosecution didn't get it done on the evidence, on proving that this was a campaign contribution, as opposed to just a gift, because bunny melon loved john edwards, because fred baron loved john edwards, let me just tell you what the jury has been asking for.

they wanted a handwritten note in which the 101-year-old heiress bunny melon said she wanted to pay for these expenses without government restrictions. then another check that she forwarded that they had testimony was in her words, quote, for the rescue of america. so they did have some evidence, which the jury asked to see again in deliberations, suggesting maybe this wasn't a pure gift, maybe it was considered even by the donor as something that would be politically helpful to john edwards. >> you and david hit on the most important questions. i think david's analysis was excellent. megyn: how about mine? it's all about me. >> yours was two. i was going to start with yours. to your question i think it is exactly the right question. you can't knowingly violate a campaign finance law if the law is so vague as to whether is considered a contribution in the first place, that you won't know whether you were violating the underlying law. so if it's unclear whether the

two contributions from the individuals would have been considered campaign contributions or not because of the vagueness of the definitions in the law, it's hard to say somebody knowingly violate the law. i think secondly david's point is exactly right, what they are really going at is the what we call the 1,001 misrepresent taeurbgs the lies to the federal investigators as the vicious was being done. my response to david on that is if should not have been dealt with in a criminal context to begin with. yes you can make the case on the false statements to federal investigators that is an actionable offense criminally but this should not be in the criminal realm to deal with. we've had dozens and dozens of cases where campaign contributions may have been use us e may have knowingly been misused. this should not be in a criminal court to begin with. megyn: final question to you. is this about a man, a politician who allegedly broke the law or is this about a husband to cheated on his wife and lied about it, and used

money to cover it up? >> it's a complex satisfactor scenario, it's both. let me just say this again, you're right the high level of state of mind cuts both ways. it's possible that something technically turns out not to be a campaign contribution. if you introduce evidence that edwards believed that it was he could still be guilty of conspiracy and lying. and how do you deduce that he was believing in that? based upon all of his actions, effort to obscure, effort to hide. it can be one of many prosecutions as you and julien know where you get acquitted of underlying charges and get punished for lying to the prosecution. so you could be again believing that you broke the law, even though you did not do so. megyn: not everything gets proven beyond a shadow of a

doubt. beyond a reasonable doubt is the standard. i've got to run. thank you both, i appreciate it. smart discussion from both side. we are watching the verdict. we are watching the courthouse in greensboro, north carolina, the jury is in the courtroom, we are told or in the courthouse, and we are expecting to learn mr. edwards' fate in moments. again, he is facing if convicted up to 30 years in prison. if he is convicted what is he likely to serve, and what are the likely -- what is the likelihood of success on any possible appeal? you heard david mention it, it's a real issue in this case. we'll talk about that with our other legal panel right after the break as we wait for the verdict. not once in my life

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fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one. megyn: fox news alert a jury has reached a verdict in the corruption trial of john edwards, former presidential candidate. we go back now to jonathan serrie live outside of the courthouse.

jonathan, how exactly are we -- you're outside, this is federal court, you are not allowed inside, no one is allowed inside that courthouse with cameras. how are you going to get the information? >> reporter: right. you know, it's sort of a roundabout way, it's almost as if we've inch called a telegraph up there. they don't allow cameras, they won't even allow camera phones, so my blackberry would not be allowed in the courtroom. the only phones allowed in are the old school cell phones with no cameras, and so a lot of the reporters have bought disposable, so-called disposable cell phones, those cheap phones, bringing them up there and are using them to text. and so we have the various counts against john edwards listed in the order that the jury is going to announce them. my colleague, mary quinn, a junior reporter who we have stationed in the courtroom with one of those old school cameraless phones is going to send me a text of either g for guilty or n for not guilty in

order and then i'll look at my list of counts and figure out what the jury's decision is. sort of a roundabout way of reporting this to you, but accurate and hopefully fast. megyn. megyn: that's how we have to do it. jonathan thank you. we'll be back to you as soon as we've got the news. joining me is bryan clay pool, a defense attorney and mark eiglarsh a former prosecutor and defense attorney. thank you very much for being here. first, every lawyer's stomach is in his or her throat at this moment. >> i'm feeling it. i'm feeling it. i've been in this position before. nine days where people were entrenched in their position, he's guilty, not guilty, nine days later all of a sudden, all right we all agree unanimously. my stomach is in knots and i have no interest in the outcome of this case. megyn: brian you can only imagine that's what the lawyers are going through, you can only imagine what the defendant, john edwards is going through now. it's one thing to be guilty of an affair and have your reputation ruined on that standpoint, to be a convicted

felon is quite another. >> there is nothing like it. watching john edwards walking into that courtroom this morning, his stomach has to be knotted up. to his credit he walks into that courtroom with a lot of candor, and he looks strong, and i think he's been projecting. megyn: standby, standby breaking news. breaking news now. they are just -- there is a new nan must verdict on one count and a hung jury on the remainder. that's what we are hearing. jonathan serrie live to you now outside the courtroom. >> megyn, we are getting a text message from the courtroom that it is a hung jury on most of the counts. we do not know which counts they are yet. but we are told that there is a hung jury on most of the counts. it's unclear, though, whether the judge will now respond with that so-called allen charge ordering the jury to go back into the room and continue deliberations on those charges. but right now the jury initially

announcing that they are hung, that it is a hung jury on most of the six counts against john edwards. we'll keep you updated as we continue to find out more information. megyn: standby. hung jury on most of the counts? the information given in my ear was, but they have a verdict on at least one. is that not confirmed now, then? >> i can't confirm that they have determined guilty or in the guilty on one of the counts, just that there is a hung jury on most of the counts. but it would not be inconsistent to suggest that perhaps they've reached a verdict on one of the counts, if you're getting confirmed information from another source. i cannot confirm that at this point. megyn: what is count 3? because we are hearing, not yet confirmed we are hearing that perhaps count 3 is the count that he have a verdict one. >> okay. count 3 is illegal campaign contributions from racial bunny

melon in the year 2008. so this would be an allegation that john edwards had accepted illegal campaign contributions from heiress bunny melon during the 2008 election cycle, within that actual year, in excess of the $2,300 maximum, individual donor cap, megyn that is what count 3 is. megyn: we'll let you try to get more information now as the information is sketchy right now. hung jury on most of the counts, but it doesn't matter to the defendant if there is a verdict on at least one count, if that verdict is guilty. we don't know what the verdict is. i want to bring back in our panel now. mark, go ahead. >> here is what is going to happen. i don't think the judge is going to say, okay, tell us what you have on that one count. if an allen charge has not been done the judge is probably going to read an allen charge and contained in the language is, hey, folks, we are counting on you to make a wise and

intelligent legal decision, we've spent a lot of time, money and effort, please go back there and listen to each other and try to make a decision. it's essentially a legal nudge. listen, try to find a verdict on all this. and then only when they cannot do so will they come become and say we no longer can continue doing this with any expectation of reaching a unanimous verdict on the remaining counts. megyn: do we have audio of this guy of this random guy who is walk out and speaking to the press? it doesn't sound like we do. >> just relax. megyn: there is not -- nothing from the site. all right. now we are confirming there is a verdict on count 3. and count 3, which was the illegal campaign contributions from rachel bunny melon. basically he was charged with illegal campaign contributions, two of them, from rachel bunny medical on this 101-year-old. illegal campaign contributions two of them from fred baron who worked on his campaign, and a

couple of counts of lying to investigators. looks like hung jury on every count except for one of counts that talked about illegal payments from bunny melon. now what is the verdict? do we know what the verdict is? jonathan serrie, do we know what the verdict is? >> no, we don't know what the verdict is. we just have confirmation that the jury has reached a verdict on count 3, but they have not announced in open court what it is. that is because the judge and the lawyers are trying to decide what to do. a federal marshal just came out and said, it's going to be a while, so obviously the judge and all of the lawyers are now trying to decide are they going to read the jury that allen charge, and send them back to continue deliberations, or are they going to let them announce this verdict on this single count, and let it rest there? megyn: unbelievable. jonathan serrie we'll get right become to you. brian, go ahead. >> i think what is going on here is the judge and the lawyers have to collectively get together and decide whether they

want to issue a charge back to the jury to tell them to continue to deliberate. frank will he i'm surprised. my experience has been that a jury high schoolee been deliberating six or seven days will first send a note to the trial judge and say, hey, we are having trouble reach a verdict, we think we are at an impasse. the that point in time the judge issues the allen charge and says you have to get back and deliberate. this is a little odd because a verdict comes in without any note from the jury saying we are at an impasse. i don't think the judge wants to read a verdict on one count and allow a hung jury on others. >> megyn, all together send the jury back. it's very possible that both sides agree not to ask the judge to have the jurors allen charged. the prosecution could say, you know what we probably have our conviction on that one count. we can retry him on the others, let's hear the guilty srer. that could be the prosecution's thought process. megyn: what is the defense thinking on this. mark? because hung jury for the defense ace good result. make no doubt about it. but they don't know what the

verdict is on that one count, mark. >> correct. you just don't know. that is the million dollar question, you know. if there is any way to over hear the jurors, great, but you don't. you just have to go with your gut and just make the call, whether you're saying, no, judge i want them back there to finish deliberating. megyn: you tell me if you're handicapping this. if your john edwards lawyer right now and you're handicapping this and very this a hung jury on virtually all the counts, that means there are some jurors in there, what number x don't know, but there are definitely some jurors in there who do not think john edwards is guilty, okay. they've convinced some of those jurors -- >> of those counts. megyn: of those counts. all of the jurors feel the same way about one of the counts, it has to do with rachel bunny melon, and the evidence in this lawyer's view, take it for what it's worth is the most compelling with respect to rachel bunny melon, in terms of a paper trail on her motivation and why she was giving to

edwards, and i read some of it earlier to you, hire handwritten notes. she wanted to pay for expenses without government restrictions. the testimony from her interior designer that he forwarded the check, quote, for the rescue of america . i'll start with you on it brian, you're the defense lawyer, are you assuming a guilty or a not guilty on that count? >> here is what -- if i'm the defense lawyer i'm assuming he's going to be guilty on that charge with bunny melon and i'm going to tell the judge, don't issue and alan charge, let's take the verdict as it is. you have to cut your losses at this point. you get a hung jury on five of the counts as a defense lawyer for edwards that is a victory on five of the counts. you'll have to take the loss on bunny melon. you don't want to run the risk now offed sending the jury back in and having them get frustrated, maybe they come back with two or three more guilty verdicts. very quickly, mark go. megyn: i agree a hundred percent. the judge will consider for sentencing that he was only

convicted of one as opposed to the others and that would inure to his benefit. megyn: i want to stand you guys by. we are going to continue our special coverage of this case right here right after this break, don't go away. [ kate ] most women may not be properly absorbing the calcium they take because they don't take it with food. switch to citracal maximum plus d. it's the only calcium supplement that can be taken with or without food. that's why my doctor recommends citracal maximum. it's all about absorption. ♪ wer surge, let it blow your mind. [ male announcer ] for fruits, veggies and natural green tea energy... new v8 v-fusion plus energy. could've had a v8. ::

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to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have six grams of sugars. with fifteen grams of protein to help manage hunger... look who's getting smart about her weight. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes. >>megyn: a jury has reached a verdict, a partial verdict in the gentleman -- john edwards corruption case. they are a hung jury on five of the six counts announcing to the judge they do have a unanimous verdict on one count. jonathan serrie will fill us in on that count. it is breaking now that the defense wants a mistrial in this case. the prosecution wants the jury to forge ahead. set the scene. >>jonathan: exactly. that is what i am hearing from the courtroom.