public opinion and going to other courts trying to rectify it and i think they're making a gigantic mistake. in san jose, the pensions are almost 200%, firemen, you run into the burning building when others are running out and police officer, take care of the bad guy. but have to listen to the will of the people. and have to draw a line for reasonable compensation, bottom line. i think they're making a bigger mistake. >> neil: i think that san jose stood out because a largely democratic town and democratic mayor, and essentially said, dagen, look, i love the unions and i want to protect the pensions and protect them. but we've got to reign the costs in so that i can. >> why this is such a watershed potentially, is because the people in san jose voted to cut benefits for current retirees. and if this goes ahead and the unions fear this this a great deal and by the way, we had another big, big vote down in san diego. the second and third largest

cities in california, but also, cut benefits, but for new hires, the unions know if this goes ahead, that you're going to have vote after vote after vote where the unions lose power and they lose benefits. but, i think, these two votes in california were a huge victory for taxpayers everywhere. but you know, ben stein, i want to switch over to you, because as near los angeles, i think the mayor just today is saying much the same sort of thing, right? and so, what's going on here? >> well, there are several things going on, neil. one is that the unions are basically saying, look, you cannot abrogate a contract by the vote of the taxpayers, we have a contract, they're suing for enforcement of a contract and second thing, there simply isn't enough money in the world to pay all of these pension costs. no one loves firefighters, police, prosecutors prison guards more than i do. i love and worship them, they're great, great people. but we just don't have the money and something's got to give and going to have to be

the generous pensions. it's a great shame, but something's got to give. >> i see. this is much bigger than wisconsin. >> i'm not crazy to be prison guards to be honest with you, the rest i like, but-- (laughter) >> and never too early to put in a good word. >> family and friends and-- at any rate, not going to go there. i think this is bigger than wisconsin, because this is the ground zero of the public sector union movement. right here in california and i think there have been two ground zeros, new york and california and if california goes the way of wisconsin, and at least moves in that direction, this is a huge victory for taxpayers as dagen said. it's a reason to buy stocks again, to-- it is a reason for hope. >> wow. >> wow. >> all right. adam, adam. here is what-- (laughter) >> here is what i want to raise with you, because when we were out in wisconsin earlier in the week.

and in particular, let's just say for some reason, and might not be as popular as the next-- having said that, one thing i get from that we are owed this, owed this, owed this. and reminds me that people work for companies that later went bankrupt and they had a pension coming and swore to god they had a pension coming and it was their right and the reality, just like with social security in the early days, 30 people putting in for every one taking something out. the math doesn't favor it. we have to readjust the math. >> yeah. >> neil: has that sunk in? >> well, clearly in a place like the unions, the public sector unions in san jose, it hasn't sunk in. i think what we're seeing here, first of all, i don't think it's so hopeful, charlie, we're beginning to attack a giant problem, but it's really just the beginning. and what we're seeing is an interesting example of-- >> that's not a good thing? >> it's a great thing.

>> of course it's a good thing. >> and hopeful, but i think you, got a lot of work left to be done. but we're seeing two really important, or interesting things going on. democracy, and the rule of law, right? so, ben put his finger on it, i mean, we, as a country, we as cities and states and municipalities, we screwed up and let this thing get way out of control. and meaning well, as charles pointed out, it got completely out of whack, and from the union's perspective, i mean, dagen said it's about power and money, it's about money, it's about benefits, and they have contracts, i think we should expect them to protect the contracts. >> isn't it really about liberalism, i mean, the growth, the growth of the nanny states and the notion that government is going to take care of you from cradle to grave. if you work for it, if you work for it, if you're a public servant, you deserve like a gold plated pension fund, i mean, it is really all about liberalism and it's the very notion that liberalism is not sustainable. >> and here is where the real

world, it's know the working, not working in europe and it's not working in california, which is a second coming of europe. >> i want to go back to that topic that adam is alluding to and dagen was the first to bring up, with respect to the contracts. unions didn't mind when the contract at general motors with the bondholders was being broken, but-- because it benefitted them. so, if that's the new game plan, if that was okay then, if it was okay to stiff the bondholders, mostly senior citizens who put their money in there for retirement as an investment, it was okay to stiff them to bail out unions, unions have to live by the same principles now. >> charles, with great respect. people always want to enforce contracts good for them. that's not at all unusual, we want to enforce contracts good for us and not enforce those that are bad for us, it's that simple. >> neil: and it's annoying and really-- (laughter) >> and charles said in the beginning that the court of public opinion is turning against the unions.

these were the two most aggressive pension reforms and basically, union reforms that we've seen and there was a thumbs up from the voters, in san diego and san jose. >> did you ever notice before the debate, dagen, and when we were doing this, you're taking firefighters pensions away andman's pensions away. no, you're asking them to kick in more. and that it would still be much less than what private workers have to kick in. and this would extend to health care benefits and all. so, nothing is being taken away. but, it's always framed that way and it makes soming the problem much tougher. >> it does, but the fact that the voters approved this in san jose, that they're touching the benefits of current workers, that's where a lot of these cities need to go, they need to go there and the fact that the voters said, we're doing this, we're tired of it, they ought to be very afraid. >> it's great cover to your political point earlier,

charles, about democrats. andrew cuomo in new york, if you're any one of these other governors and mayors, democratic mayor in l.a. scott walker and his victory, gave you tremendous cover. >> absolutely, at the end of the day, we do elect them to solve our problems, and this is the biggest problem states are facing. >> the voting demographic in new york and california and this point is much more difficult. public sector unions comprised of a lot of voters in that. >> absolutely, absolutely. >> that's going to be hard. the very fact that-- >> come on, liberal california good gracious alive, 2-1 vote in favor of making a change. >> i was doing hand stands, you know, clapping and very, i was very hopeful. let's see how far it goes. really, this is california we're talking about. >> neil: wait a minute, when the results came in you were literally doing-- >> i'd like to see you doing a hand stand. >> he can. >> how about a one arm pushup? >> that's okay. do you really want to pursue this? [laughter] >> as some of you might have heard, i do another show on

another network, now, and the fox business network starts at 8 p.m. on the east coast of america and we were in wisconsin with the big recall, and on top of things monday through friday and might have noticed the switch that bill o'reilly has done. >> yeah, baby, yeah, baby! we've got big names for next week and every night. remember, there's a great cable universe, we can all breathe in it together. i have no idea what that means. meanwhile, you think a green job is only about working on a solar panel or window, think again. the government admitting a green job, i think it's going to have you seeing red. >> what about workers at a consignment shop? >> does a teenage kid who works full-time at a used record shop count? >> yes. hello bobby. do you know you could save hundreds

on car insurance over the phone, online or at your local geico office? tell us bobby, what would you do with all those savings? hire a better ventriloquist. your lips are moving. geico®. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance.

>> hi, everyone, we're live from america's news headquarters, i'm jamie colby.

attorney general eric holder appointing two top federal prosecutors to lead criminal investigations into recent leaks of u.s. classified information, and among those leaks, details of an al-qaeda infiltrator and a computer worm used to disrupt iran's nuclear program. under intense criticism by critics who say the president's campaign is leaking the information to make him look good. the white house denies those accusations. and there will be no trem crown and no moresing for i'll have another. the champion scratched from the belmont stakes, due to a swollen tendon, the official saying injury is not worth it. if he would have won the triple crown would have been the first since 1978. i am jamie colby. >> neil: and the green jobs, we might have found the

answer. >> if you drive a hybrid bus, public transportation, is that a green job. >> according to our definition, yes. >> thank you, what about any school bus driver. >> yes. >> what about the guy who puts gas in the school bus. >> yes. >> how about an oil lobbyist, wouldn't an oil lobbyist count as having a green job if they're engaged in advocacy related to environmental issues. >> yes. >> thank you. >> what about a financial anchor doing a segment on green jobs? >> yes. >> neil: meanwhile, the house grilling the administration over how it's counted green jobs after the government created 3 million created, of course i would be 3 million 1. depends on what your definition of green job was. >> george orwell says that those who seize control of government, would change definitions to make whatever they wanted.

war is peace, freedom is slavery. and that's what it is, to try to control the thought process of america. these definitions are meaningless and extremely frightening to see such dishonesty, even in politics, to see this level of dishonesty is extremely discouraging. >> neil: adam since you're the smiling face of this corrupt culture. [laughter]. >> i guess you're all right with that. >> neil, you've never been so kind to me before. >> kind to me and-- so, i'm sorry, neil, i didn't hear your question because i was laughing so hard, i apologize. >> neil: do you feel guilty? [laughter] >> yes, yes, i -- i feel terribly guilty about it. i don't think that, neil, i don't think it's a silly idea to call something a green job if a green job is a job that contributes to, you know, improving the environment, which i think is a noble goal.

>> come on. >> and i think-- >> we might as well extend it to anybody who read the book green eggs and ham. come on, it gets silly, you know that. >> no, what i was going to say, i think that the janitor at the solar panel company counts as a green job. the guy filling up the school bus with gasoline should not be a green job, wait a second. we should try to learn something from this and those are bad definitions. >> and could jeff immelt get the tax breaks to create green energy or whatever. is his ceo job a green job, adam? >> i think we can agree on public policy measures that try to help the environment and others-- >> and should jeff immelt-- >> i have no problem with that. >> jeff immelt has a high paid green job. >> we've all been sucked into the insane world of debating. why do we even have a green jobs category. >> very good. >> a job is a job is a job. >> and i feel guilty we're

doing the segment. >> it's a waste of time and money that the government is focused on fixated on this. >> you know why? because he's trying to justify. >> i know, it's still dumb. >> so long as you're-- did i say dumb? >> no, she called the situation dumb. >> here is the bottom line, it's a conduit for stealing money from the public, a lot of money from the public for the initiatives to appease the environmentalists adam. to give money back to political donors, if you cut through the bull, maybe a couple hundred green jobs, a couple hundred, not 3 million. it's a lie-- and if orwell wrote this, there's lies and damn lies and a whopper to rip off the american public, that's what it is. >> adam, you know they're counting the guy, the janitor at solyndra as a green job, right? is that good? >> i don't have a problem with that, i've said so. i've got no problem with that.

look, just, all i object to, i said i think some of these titles are silly, they're bad statistics, but, charles, this is about public policy, you know, we try to have public safety. we try to have public health. we have the interstate highway system, and i know, charlie's going to jump all over me for this, i don't think it's a bad goal to have the-- >> and, but, you think the american public-- >> in a time when we have limited resources, shouldn't we be really honest what this is doing? because we're devoting a lot of resources to this green stuff and it's not working. we should always be honest and it's our job as journalists to call bs on bs. >> fine, i'm with you that. >> on the pages of the new york times we haven't seen the story. >> well, i was doubtful about this segment, but nothing we did now removed me from that. >> still feel guilty, neil. >> when we come back, say it ain't so, joe. vice-president joe biden says

something about his wife and michelle obama that has one of the women on forbes warning the entitlement nation is here to stay. that's coming up in the next hour, but the free market from housing is not coming from the free market, et cetera coming from the government. we report, you decide. [ male announcer ] at scottrade, we believe the more you know, the better you trade. so we have ongoing webinars and interactive learning, plus, in-branch seminars at over 500 locations, where our dedicated support teams help you know more so your money can do more. [ rodger ] at scottrade, seven dollar trades are just the start. our teams have the information you want when you need it. it's anothereason more investors are saying... [ all ] i'm with scottrade. it's kind of a big deal. chex has five flavors that are gluten-free.

even a cinnamon one the kids love. the word "wow" comes to mind. [ male announcer ] chex cereal. five flavors. good and gluten free. >> coming up, get ready for a private sale. i'm not talking fancy clothes, i'm talking mortgages. selling bad loans

>> well, the free market fixed from the government. the federal housing agency planning to sell off more of delinquent home mortgages to apply to investors would finally get it off the

government books and put them in the hands of the private sector. ben, what do you think of that? >> i think it's a great idea. very, very important, the caveats, one, make sure the investors are sophisticated investors and an idea of the risks they're running and this is basically a junk data offering and make sure that they cannot use aggressive oppressive procedures in trying to extract money. and otherwise a great idea that government should be selling assets whenever they can. >> it's an exclamation point on how, basically, poorly run the fha has been. >> absolutely. >> half the loans at fh a. are underwater and the vast majority of the loans of fha, bad loans were made since 2009. you sell them off. fha is going to step in and make more bad loans. >> was it me or something that was bandied about during the beginning of the crisis and the administration was against it and-- >> it was a buy from the banks, right? >> and that's how they sold it the first time.

by the toxic assets. >> this was repackaged nonsense. i think that ben makes a great point. we better look at the fine print on this, make sure that the bund letters, get the great deals and plus, i don't know, might be a white flag to dagen's point, throwing up the white flag at the last minute. >> first off to people who are buying mortgages, i don't think that average people are going to be your broker at swab so to speak, the black rocks and big companies like this. >> berkshire hathaway. >> and the major investors involved in this. i will say this, it's like tarp in the sense, the initial tarp plan was that the banks would sell the toxic assets to the federal government. why didn't they do that. >> or the bait and switch. >> why didn't they do it. >> too complicated. >> not only that, every bank would have been declared insolvent immediately and they knew it. >> adam, your quick take on this? >> i think the fha is an embarrassment, still insurancing loans with 3.5% down payments and i agree this is a good idea to get it off the government's books.

>> the people who get them love them, that's our problem. >> that's fine, fine, any other thing you want to say. >> no, i'm just saying that people who have the mortgages love them and then complain about the fha being on the rocks. >> and at least, i wasn't banging the table, hello-- >> dagen, mr. gasperino, it was a pleasure, up next, what could be more than the magic bus you saw in the wisconsin and what about the maigic stock? ♪ magic bus, magic bus but with three kids, being home more really helped. man: so we went to fidelity. we talked about where we were and what we could do. we changed our plan and did something about our economy. now we know where to go for help if things change again.

call or come in today to take control of your personal economy. get free one-on-one help from america's retirement leader.

>> next a fox business alert the bus is back. earlier today, i'm not kidding, you this puppy parked and 500 people came out of it. now, that, that was weird. but anyway, here is something that's not. you see the magic bus, we've

got magic stocks, charles. >> expedia, on line travel. internet company doing well. i think the stock is going higher. >> adam, what do you think of that? >> charles, i didn't want to like this and i looked at it and liked it. it's a reasonable valuation and you know, a nice company that's not expensive. >> neil: what are you picking apart right now. what do you like? >> well, you know, despite the female, i'm not into magic, i like united technologies, a broad play and the global economy and a solid company that pays a good dividend. >> neil: what do you think of that, ben, in this environment right now? >> the best run companies there's ever been in the history of american industry is a great, great company. >> neil: you like it. >> i love it. >> neil: what do you have? >> i like the thailand etf. the thai people are incredibly indust trust people and more aggressive in lower parts of china and going to have a dip like all the developing countries are, but in the long

run they're a tiger. >> he's 100% right. the only worry is the political instability. >> that's true, a worry. >> neil: and getting along today. and we continue, now. >> the same week the badgers vote to keep out big government, president obama pushes for a bigger public sector. >> the big challenge we have in our economy right now is state and local government hiring has been going in the wrong direction. >> brenda: so is hiring more government workers how to get the economy booming again is this hi, i'm brenda butt sner, this is bulls and bears. here they are, tobin smith, gary b, and john, welcome. bigger government the best thing for the economy? >> brenda, this is worse for the economy and bigger governmenan