considering dropping their employee-respond errerespond sponsored insurance. while there is argument whether obamacare will save money in the long run businesses will pay $30 billion more in healthcare premiums than they would without the law. chris stirewalt is our digital politics editor and host of power play. this is it, we get to find out how the supreme court gets to rule this this case, the most important case we've seen in decades. it likely will happen monday, if not monday, tuesday or wednesday. if the supreme court strikes it down in whole or in part what is the risk as john boehner points out in republicans, quote, spraoeubging the football?

>> let me tell you, this town is freaked out about what is going to happen when the supreme court actually rules. it's been hanging over washington's head forever it seems like. people are very anxious about it. when the court said they weren't coming on thursday you could feel the tension ratchet up one more round. people are very, very anxious about this. and with good reason, what you've just described, the stakes are so huge. this changes what the supreme court does here changes the game for everybody. what boehner is trying to tell republicans and i think this is a very smart thing for him to have done, what he is saying here is look, whatever we do, democrats are going to accuse republicans of being happy that certain provisions, or certain things for needy people, the most appealing parts of the president's law have been taken away. and democrats want to do that very much, they want to be able to say that the republicans are stealing good things away from needy people. jenna: that's -- boehner's statement was don't spike the football and the democratic leadership, their statement was,

quote, it's a sad day when republicans can't to cheer against the health benefits americans are already enjoying. and that was part of the strategy all along is to have the good parts of the law kick in early to gin up more public sentiment and then the expensive, less popular parts of the law, like the mandate that requires everyone to pay to kick in later to, hopefully tamp down opposition to the law. according to the polls it hasn't worked perfectly. one wonders what the numbers would be like in the poll if the down sides of the law had already kicked in. >> yeah, i think boehner would be telling republican toss go ahead and spike the football if they had done it the other way, because you're right, even more it would be more unpopular because democrats thought what they would be able to pull out us a soft roll out, and by the way, here is your mandate, the new taxes, here are the new things. the truth of the matter is is the democrats did not success,

which is by time of implementation to have sentiment soften against it. we reignite this entire discussion next week. all the kinds of things you're talking about will have to be relitigated and discussed again and americans will be reminded about all of this stuff and it happens to be right in the middle of a general election season with the presidency on the line. if will reset the race, this will totally scramble the situation depending on what the justices do. jenna: to what extent -- if the supreme court upholds the law that's that, the law is in place and it goes forward. if they strike down the law in whole or in part, which they are expected to do because the argument did not go well for the government. how do they blame that on the republicans? it is the job for the highest court in the land to say, what is and what is not constitutional. if the nine justices sitting on the high court with lifetime tenure tell the united states of

america, this law or part of it is not consistent with our constitution, how do the republicans get tarred with that? >> well, because nothing now is beneath contempt, or above contempt in the political discourse. everybody is fair game. there's been a decision that happened over the last decade, 20 years in american politics everything is game. in the older days you never would have dreamed of questioning the justices, you would not be screaming about it. democrats will scream about it and call it the bush court if it's overturned. let me put one more wrinkle in it. if this law is affirmed in whole president obama is going to have a bigger headache than he did beforehand. yes it's a win and it's great for him to say that he did not automatic author legislation that was unconstitutional, that is night. now he has to defend this law and standby it, and people will be reminded of all these things and the unphrap hrar

unpopularity of this law will go up. jenna: i almost never sa up. megyn: i almost never say this. but wrinkles go up. the supreme court will announce their ruling, they will tell us by the end of today whether they will add decision days, possibly tuesday to, possibly wednesday. you can bet this decision is likely to come out on the very last day that the court issues opinions. we'll know a little bit more as the day progresses. there are still a number of other major decisions expected to be handed down in addition to healthcare. there there is the possibility that the court could extend its term technically past monday. we are watching for a decision on the arizona immigration law, is that legal. that is another one that got of a lot of attention. stick with fox news as we await the supreme court's final rulings of the term. you can learn more about all of this by going to our website foxnews.com. we are also waiting for new

information right now on the investigation into operation fast and furious. in just about 15 minutes two of the top investigators for senator chuck grassley who has been at the center of this investigation from the beginning are going to meet with the press. that comes after president obama used executive privilege earlier this week to block the release of documents on a gun-running sting operation that led to 2,000 weapons winding up in the hands of some mexican drug cartels, hundreds of deaths in mexico, and the death of this man here, border patrol agent brian terry. his parents, kent and josephine terry now a cushion the department of justice and the obama administration of, quote, lying. saying they are hiding something, preventing these parents from getting the truth about how their son, brian, died. >> if everybody would come out and tell the truth and whoever is responsible face the consequences, this would all be over. he would have closure, and i would have closure.

we could mourn for your son, which we never have done. megyn: william la jeunesse had an exclusive interview with the terry family an joins us live in the next hour of "america live" here. eight accusers come forward with nearly the same a cushion stories. could former football coach jerry sandusky be telling the truth when he says he never engaged in inappropriate sexual misconduct with those boys? dr. keith ablow is here to take a look at the strong case, according to a lot of legal watchers being presented by the defense. we'll take a look at that, and we'll also take a look at the somewhat bizarre behavior of mrs. sandusky in this case. and an ugly showdown over egypt's recent elections as the military apparently refuse toe refuses to hand over power to the recently elected muslim brotherhood.

it's like another bush v gore over there. there will be real consequences for israel and the united states depending on how this comes out. ambassador john bolton is here. nancy pelosi raising a controversial question that suggests a link between the doj crackdown on voter id laws in various states, and the republicans pushing to hold eric holder in contempt of congress. one conservative radio host says miss pelosi's comments are raising different questions about whether nancy pelosi's claims may be a little out there. >> do you understand what a nut job this is? how contemptible nancy pelosi is? i have to go from john locke and edmund burke to this. this downer? this loser? ♪ with the hundredi saved at progressive, i'm out here, giving a little refill relief. are you on empty here, tyler? yes, actually, i honestly am. well, we're going to fill 'er up with savings.

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>> it is an unbelievable experience, it's one that i will certainly remember for the rest of my life, and everyone here

has one thing on their mind, which is a true love of country and a love of the promise of freedom that they have ahead of them. megyn it's something you have to be here to experience. megyn: it's incredible to see from this vantage point. what do they say they want next? who is their leader? who are they pushing for. >> that's the big question, who is next. nobody has an answer to that. the protestors have not been able to say who they want next, who they have, another leader ahead of them. the only thing they said is they want phaoub out. hosni mubarak out. they have what they want. megyn: that was leland vitter a year ago, five weeks before i delivered a baby, i want to say that for the record, just as hosni mubarak was being ousted from power. flash forward to today we are seeing angry new protests after the country's supposedly first free elections. the muslim brotherhood claims it has won control. the egyptian military, which is

reluctant to see the hard line islamic group take over and reluctant to release control itself is basically standing in its way. leland have it earth streams live to us from cairo. they have dissolved the parliament, the military is in control and this is turning into a bush v gore in terms of the muslim brotherhood candidate and the other guy both declaring victory. >> reporter: that is a very good analogy, megyn, the difference here is that bush v gore it was as though president clinton was deciding the winner and deciding if he wanted to turn over power, we could all guess how that would have probably gone down. i was in the crowd 16 months ago as you just saw. the crowd now in the square is a very different crowd, equal number of people, still a lot of energy, but in this crowd today is a much more i islamist

crowd. they want to put their man, mohammed morsi in power. hundreds of rows deep demonstrators gathered in the square for noon prayers. minutes later the prayers turned to protest against the army and for muslim brotherhood candidate mohammed morsi. why are you here. >> we are here to support mohammed morsi. he's the one who took the elections. >> reporter: this is dozens of group who have marched all around cairo. the ability to turn out these kinds of crowds shows the political power of the muslim brotherhood. >> we are angry, but we are very sure that the victory will be for egyptian people. >> reporter: that morsi will become the president. >> morsi is the president.

>> reporter: that's what the protestors want. you can hear a little bit of a roar coming up from the crowd, you can hear the dusk call of prayer. what you're looking at is all of the tents they have reelected here in th rerecollected here ihave erected in the square. they say they are not going to leave until the army gets out of the square, something the army says they will not do soon. megyn: who is this guy morsi and what will it mean for the united states and israel if he achieves power. ambassador john bolton joins us from paris. welcome back to the program, sir. this guy morsi was educated in the west, in the united states. when you look at his list of hilites the one that jumps out at me is he wants the united states to hold a scientific conference so we can determine the real culprits behind the 9/11 attacks because he doesn't

believe it was al-qaida. that doesn't sound good. >> that's not a good place to start. look, he's the muslim brotherhood candidate. it's a radical, political movement, and although they try to appear moderate for western media eyes, the consequences if morsi winds both domestically in egypt, for the coptic christians, and internationally with respect to israel could be very, very serious indeed. i have to say it is far from a forgone conclusion that morsi will be declared the winner. maybe the electrons got to paris a little more quickly than new york. apparently the official government newspaper is saying his opponent, shafiq will be declared the winner tomorrow by the army. that's just a newspaper but it's a pretty official voice for the

egyptian government. that could set off a true confrontation here. megyn: now they are fighting the muslim brother hood and the guys who support the guy molsi in tahrir square. and the choice facing egyptians in many folks view is the choice between a military dictatorship, all in exchange for a dictatorship they had under hosni mubarak. how much progress have we made? >> or the two sides can cut a deal and share power and have a joint dictatorship. i think what you see going on now is a form of bargaining. the military, as you said a moment ago, got a court ruling, in effect, desolving the parliament. they are now going to decide who won the election. the muslim brotherhood is doing at this point the only thing they can do, turning out large numbers of people in the street. that demonstrates their popular support. and i suspect behind the scenes what you've got going on is a lot of negotiation between the brotherhood and the military. megyn: the muslim brotherhood

had won a number of seats in parliament, again their candidate still claims to have won the presidency there. they say, and this is the most extremist group, i mean, you know, none of them are exactly u know, pro west, but some more than others, even the muslim brotherhood candidates are saying that they will abide by the 1979 peace accord with israel, and they are using the right language about israel. are we to believe it? >> well, they've said that they don't want to abbrogate the camp david accord in its entirety, but all of them, including the defeated candidates from the first round have said they want major changes in it. and you can judge that accordingly. again as you said a moment agent first thing the muslim brotherhood said was they weren't going to run for president at all. that didn't last very long. so i think that this is a period of enormous uncertainty. one thing you can say for sure, pro western democrats are not going to emerge from this on

top. megyn: okay. soy thso the muslim brotherhood said they are not going to run for the presidency, and then they do and either came close to winning or did win, we'll find out in a couple of days. they say they'll back the peace treaty with israel. this guy mori has called israelis vampires. they've cracked down on christians, and this guy morsi is claiming he will have some christian advisers in his cabinet. are we to trust the actions or the words? >> well, the muslim brotherhood didn't fall off the turnip truck yesterday. its been an extremist organization inee skwreuplt for in egypt for a longtime and they've had a strange relationship with the army, they've had an understanding of what each is allowed to do. i don't discount the possibility that ultimately you can see the million tear row and the muslim brotherhood cut a deal to share power, and i think that's what worries people most of all in the pro western community

because they are got to get the worst of both worlds at that point, especially the coptic christians. megyn: [speaking french] that's all i know how to say in french. see you later. house minority leader nancy pelosi the push to eric holder hold in contempt of congress is trying to distract him from its effort to promote voting rights. we'll have a debate between the former speaker and our guest and radio host mark levin just ahead. >> is she drinking? have you noticed? what is the deal here mr. producer? what is it with these people? i mean they all sound like they are a .2, it's after happy hour, they are repeating themselves like morons. or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert

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megyn: fox news alert a verdict is possible any moment now in the jerry sandusky trial. after more than a week of emotional and heart wrenching testimony the jury is now deciding the fate of the former penn state assistant football coach accused of sexually abusing several young boys. and more charges could be coming after an explosive allegation by sandusky always adopted son who issued a statement after the jury went into the deliberations, and keep in mind they are sequestered, saying he too had been a victim of abuse at the hands of his own adopted father. jair jair livgregg garre to, rett live with more. >> reporter: this was a stunning allegation by sandusky's adoptive son, he saying he too

was abused. matt sandusky repeatedly denied being abused. in fact he accompanied the family in a public show of support. but during the trial he met with prosecutors and offered to testify against his adopted father. it's not known why they chose not to call him as a witness, and jurors know nothing about it. in response jerry sandusky's attorney said this -- >> i can't discuss anything because of the gag order, fellas. we have a lot to say afterwards, but we can't discuss anything now. >> reporter: a lot to say, well that is the same attorney who promised jurors during opening statement that they would hear from his client, that he had a lot to say, but of course jerry sandusky never took the witness stand to deny the charges that he molested ten young boys. and while jurors will be instructed, of course, not to draw any adverse conclusion from that, an attorney for one of the alleged victims suggested that

will be difficult. >> i can't imagine that it would escape the attention of jurors who knew that this man gave a national interview, but didn't speak to them. >> reporter: the new claim by matt sandusky that he too was a victim raises the potential for new criminal charges against his adopted dad, and there may be others, of course, who will come forward. but if sandusky is actually convicted and put away for life, well prosecutors might decide not to bring any additional charges, judicial economy, expense, megyn. megyn: the penn state former president, graham spanier was forced to resign over this whole thing. are they talking now about possibly bringing criminal charges against him? >> reporter: yes. in fact the university board of trustees reportedly has learned that spanier is facing possible

indictment. two of his former administrators have already been indicted for perjury, but recently emails have been unearthed between those two individuals and spanier suggesting that the former president may have been, and i say may have been, complicit in covering up evidence of sex-abuse and may not have been entirely forthright in his grand jury testimony. so right now, megyn, unclear what may or could happen to graham spanier. megyn: this case is incredible to me. thank you. we've been watching this case, and you may have your own conclusions about this man, so many boys coming forward and so on, but the defense has been doing a good job in presenting his defense, and that's what he's entitled to, that's the beauty of being an american you get a defense before you get thrown in jail in this country. so we're going to talk about whether it is possible that all these young boys made up these stories as the defense is claiming, just as a money grab,

just because they had it in against sandusky and saw an opportunity. we also want to talk about a somewhat bizarre moment between mr. sandusky and his own wife. she took the stand at his trial to say she never saw any inappropriate behavior by her husband, and then today the jury asked to have testimony read back to it by -- the testimony by mike m mccleary who said he saw the coach assaulting a boy in the shower. this was the first time the wife heard that testimony, she wasn't in the courtroom for the. she went over to sandusky and they had a laugh. dr. keith ablow is here to try to explain some of this to us in moments. does your phone give you all day battery life ?

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megyn: we are waiting for new information on the investigation into operation fast and furious. at any moment two of the top investigators for senator chuck grassley, he's the one to whom the doj wrote a letter in february of 2012 that they later had to withdraw as inaccurate. they are about to brief reporters on their search for answers in this gun running sting that we are told cost hundreds their lives in mexico and the life a u.s. border agent.

nancy pelosi is claiming the republicans are going after the attorney general eric holder because they are unhappy about the attorney general's fight to stop what she terms voter suppression in certain states. listen. >> the very same people are holding in contempt are part of a nationwide scheme to suppress the vote. they are closely allied with those who are suffocating the system, unlimited special interests, secret money. and they are poisoning the debate. megyn: that's all radio talk show host mark levin needed to hear. listen to him. >> nancy pelosi has to be one of the dumbest people to ever have been the speaker of the house. holder is held in contempt. a law enforcement officer was

murdered. shot in the back. shot in the back. on the border. the attorney general of mexico says somewhere around 200 members cans have been murdered as a result of the obama administrations fast and furious policies. nancy pelosi doesn't want to know what happened. nancy pelosi doesn't want to know why brian terry was murdered. she doesn't want to know why 200 mexicans were murdered. she doesn't want to know why guns in this country at the direction of the obama administration wound up in the hands of drug cartels and other purchaserrous thieves across the border. she only cares about controlling guns owned by law abiding american citizens. otherwise she doesn't want to

hear anything. megyn: welcome back to the program. mark levin is obviously no van of nancy pelosi. -- no fan of nancy pelosi. does he have a point, michael, that the democrats risk looking like they don't care about the murder of a border patrol agent if they object too much to the seen as or object too much to what the republicans are doing? >> i think nancy pelosi takes it to a new level when she says it's about voter suppression. why would you go looking for more of a story. we have a federal government program that on purpose released assault rifles into mexico for drug dealers with no plan to track them. never told the government of mexico. one killed a border agent.

so what's this really about? what do you mean what's it about? forget looking like they don't get it. this is shameful, this is embarrassing to try to make a purely hacked partisan argument about an idiotic program that killed an american citizen with our weapons. megyn: she seems to be saying the current effort, not necessarily the one that began 24 months ago. but the current effort is meant to distract mr. holder from his other duties, like his efforts to enforce voter laws. >> i think they are two separate issues. i don't know that they are linked. i know there is a concerted effort on the right where republican governors are claiming fraud. that's a separate issue. but i can't make the case that they are linked necessarily. but what i do object to is the

way mark levin -- you played a clip there -- he has been after pelosi for years. rather than discussing the issue, i made the list of the things, he calls her dumb, he thinks obama and democrats are celebrating the death of brian terry which is ridiculous. he called her contemptible, a nut job, a loser. that she might be drinking. called her a more -- a moron and evil. this is a personal attack against pelosi. there is no need for this kind of rhetoric and these kind of accusations. >> the reason why people are passionate -- i agree some of the things he said were over the top and some would be better than what she did. i would like to think nancy

pelosi was drunk when she said the only people who want to find out who killed brian terry are people who want to suppress the vote. that's crazy talk. maybe americans will believe that the obama administration cares about who killed brian terry and why. but as long as obama is covering up ... megyn: alan, you say you don't know if there is a link as she suggests between the contempt of congress and mr. holder's challenging of these voter i.d. laws in various states. does that make sense to you, her accusation that the republicans -- the whole reason behind this contempt proceeding is they want to distract the attorney general from those lawsuits? >> i don't subscribe to that. i think it's an effort in an election year to put the heat on the attorney general and thus obama. there was a predicate called wide receiver.

the same program did not result thankfully in the death of a border agent. it could have but it didn't. and of course we hardly heard anything about it at the time. we didn't hear people going after the bush administration for it. there seems to be a double standard. megyn: as far as i know no american was killed as a result of operation wide receiver. but it didn't. it wasn't -- it didn't -- listen. let's remind the viewers. this is an atf operation in phoenix. "operation fast & furious." brian terry died and an atf whistleblower called up the feds and said you need to know this happened it was because of the death that the whistle blog took place. none of that happened in wide receiver. is there any risk to nancy pelosi who says look it's all about this, it's not about brian terry. it's about trying to distract eric holder from doing his job? is there a risk in taking that

tack as opposed to being sympathetic to the terry family and demanding answers? >> probably not because the media has done such a good job burying the story. just last week nbc did their first story on it. it's despicable to watch her turn this into a partisan political -- a dead guy -- when these previous program, the mexican government was -- those weapons were untagged. secret program. it's a separate program. the documents are prime document. >> i'll give and levin decaf. what's shameful with all due respect to the family of brian terry. with all due respect to the family, no one can understand their pain, but those who were using this death as a political

football ought to be ashamed of themselves trying to tie this to the obama administration as if the obama administration doesn't care about them and it doesn't matter to them that people died. there should not be that kind of a link. that's shameful. megyn: good debate as always. we are coming back with dr. keith ablow on some of the more bizarre things we have seen. [ male announcer ] imagine facing the day

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megyn: a fox news alert. president obama in the key battleground state of florida. he is speaking to a meeting of hispanic leaders. it's his first speech before a latino group after announcing his plan to ease deportation rules for hispanic immigrants. yesterday mitt romney spoke to the same group. he slammed obama's plan as little more than a stop-gap

measure. he said he would address immigration in a reasoned manner. >> it's always niece to get out of washington, it's nice to get a little florida sunshine, but it's especially nice to see people who have devoted themselves to serving their country and dedicated themselves to making people's lives a little bit better each and every day. school board, state legislatures, county boards. you guys are where the rubber hits the road. and i have had a chance to see many of you in your local communities and hear the stories of all your efforts and all your hopes and all your dreams. also, some of your frustrations. the hardships that are taking place. yesterday your featured speaker

came here and said the election in november isn't about two people. it's not about being a republican or democrat or independent it's about the future of america. and while we have a lot of differences, he and i, on this point i could not agree more. this is about america's future. the defining issue of our time is whether we carry forward the promise that has drawn generations of immigrants to our shores from every corner of the globe. sometimes at great risk. men and women drawn by the promise that no matter who you are, no matter what you look like. no matter where you come from, no matter what your last name. this is a place where you can make it if you try. this is a place where you can make it if you try.

whether our ancestors arrived on the may flouro -- the may flower or were brought on slave ships, whether they signed in at ellis island or crossed the rio grande. their diversity not only enriched this country, but it has built the biggest economic even joint world has ever known. dreamers, risk takers. people don't come here look for handouts. we are a nation of entrepreneurs. the hardest working people on earth. nobody personifies these american values, these american traits more than the latino community. [applause] that's the essence of who you are. all we ask for is that hard work

pays off. that responsibility is rewarded. that if these men and women put in enough effort, they can find a good job. own their own home. send their kids to college. let their kids dream even bigger. put away a little bit for retirement. not go bankrupt and get sick. when i ran for this office, for more than a decade that dream had been slipping away from too many americans. before i even took office, the worst economic cry civils our life types pushed it even further from reach. particularly for a lot of latino communities that already faced higher unemployment and higher

poverty rates. but the question is not whether we need to do better -- of course the economy isn't where it needs to be -- of course there is still too many who struggle. we have so much more work to do. but the question is, how do we make the economy grow faster? how do we create more jobs? how do we create more opportunity? the question is, what vision are we going to stand up for? who are we going to fight for? that's what we have to decide right now. megyn: we'll stream the rest of president obama's remarks on foxnews.com. if you care to listen to him you can. after the break we'll be joined by hugh hewitt who has some thoughts on the dueling speeches. [ kate ] most women may not be properly absorbing

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megyn: you just saw the president briefly speak to a group of latinos in florida. joining us is hugh hewitt with his new book, "the brief against obama." we saw governor romney address this group yesterday, president obama today. the one thing holding back that vote is the economy. we heard the president talking about that. how do you see this shake out? >> i think governor romney did the right thing to stress economic reform, especially to the immigrants that would bring additional skill sets to the country. people are going to rethink it wisdom of a short-term solution.

it will incentivize employers to start dumping older latino workers and pick up younger workers for whom immunity will be attached. and it will encourage other people to bring their kids to the united states. that which gets reward gets repeated. the latino voters in swing states will have a lot to think about. governor romney is right to emphasize systematic reform rather than barack obama maneuvering to grab a point here and a point there in the polls. megyn: governor romney wouldn't say, was he wise not to fall into that trap or should he have gone along with what the president said. >> i think it was very smart. you don't answer a question

that's posed to you. you and the question you want to answer. the question he wanted to answer was what are you going to do comprehensively out immigration reform. he contrasted his effort to work with congress as opposed to the increasing lawlessness of obama. he issued these hhs regs. they are unconstitutional. even liberal law professors. he says they can't even do what the president want to do with regards to issuing green cards to these kids. i think rom numbers approach very systematic and patient will pay off in november. megyn: coming up josie and kent terry in an alleged coverup that may have led to the death of their son. their powerful interview is next. why not make lunch more than just lunch?

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megyn: fox news alert. new reaction from the family of murdered border patrol agent brian terry after president obama acertain executive privilege to protect documents relating to the death of their son. we are hearing from brian terry's parents together speaking to fox news how they still do not have any answers, 18 months after their son's death. brian terry was shot dead while on duty near the arizona border. the two of weapons found at the scene of his murder were believed to be from operation fast and furious it was run by atf with the approval of the department of justice. they had to sign off on the wiretaps. it was supposed to track gun sales to drug cartels. what they did was let the guns walk into the hands of very bad

mexican criminals and the two of guns wound up at the murder scene. his family says they need some sort of closure. but believe our government up to something here. >> i feel sad that our government is like that. they do this. i'll tell you, they tell you lies. something bad happened out there that night. i know what happened. i just got a gut feeling. more than you are telling us. megyn: william lajeunesse following this live from detroit where brian terry's family lives. >> reporter: this is brian terry's hometown. they tide not pull any punches, accusing the president and the attorney general abusing executive privilege to hide their own culpability. either you believe the

administration that admits that fast and furious illegally funneled guns to mexico. but they say those tactics were only known and approved in phoenix and the document do not show a coverup, the foreknowledge that existed in d.c. of gun walking. or you believe the republicans who say the paper trail already shows the top d.o.j. officials knew and approved of those tactics and it could show that fast and furious was meant to establish a link between the american gun stores and the carnage in mexico to justify tougher gun restrictions. now they are using executive privilege to hide those facts. >> i think he's using it because he's got something to hide. he's a lawyer. and i think he's lie together american people.

>> when said i did not know nor did my attorney general authorize this program, do you think that's untrue? >> yes, i do. i think he knew all about my son. sit went all at way up the ladder. they are protecting him and our attorney general. >> he's supposed to be bringing justice to the american people. something that happened like brian, brian didn't get one over by a car. brian got shot with a weapon ... >> in the back. >> -- from fast and furious that walked. >> reporter: do you feel the attorney general should be held in contempt and why? >> when you go to congress and you continue to say, i don't recall, i don't remember, i didn't know. you know, you have to know. somebody has to know.

>> reporter: after brian terry was shot whistleblowers said atf phoenix hid the facts that guns he bought were from the crime scene. when they arrested the buyer of those guns they charged him with a separate unrelated crime according to an email to hide his connection to fast and furious. the family was furious that congress would get to the bottom of who was behind this and hold those accountable for the program. they would be disciplined or fired or prosecuted. that hasn't happened and that's one reason they are speaking out. >> they vowed, we'll not rest until we get answers as a promise. >> i don't know any more today than when i was first murdered. >> we'll not rest until every single person responsible for all of this no matter where they

are, are brought to justice. >> he stood there right to my face and told me that he will do anything to bring anybody to justice no matter how high up it was and how it was. what happened? if everybody would come out and tell the truth, and whoever is responsible, face the consequences, this would all be over. he would have closure and i would have closure. we could mourn for our son which we never have done. >> reporter: one thing that's frustrating for the family is you have some lawmakers and editorial writers and news executives in washington who think they can learn about this story by reading a few articles without talking to the gun dealers or atf agents or reading the thousands of emails, some contradicting one another. when they hear their son's name used for political purposes in

washington. kent is upset by that. josie says she understands some lawmakers will use his name to personalize a story as a vehicle to bring attention to it. >> i was very upset on it. they are using my son. his good name. and he was the guy who protected them. >> i think they know brian was a hero. he was a warrior, he was a number one american. he loved his country. and i think that if he could see all this he would not believe it. >> he would shake his head for sure. reporter: disappointed? >> yes, he loved his country an loved that border patrol. >> reporter: they set up a foundation for support for other border patrol agents who have

been killed. the family says they would rather wait and have the attorney general held in contempt and let them' fight over the whole loaf rather than accept a few slices of the hand selected document, the 1,300 the attorney general is willing to hand over though he said those don't implicate anyone in d.o.j. the family is in this for the long haul. megyn: great job. thank you so much. fox news alert. new developments in the escalating crisis in syria. the day started with russia saying it will not explain to the united states its reason for continued deliveries of weapons and attack helicopters to the syrian regime. choppers that will likely be used in the attacks similar to the ones that have already killed an estimated 10,000 syrians within the last year, including many women, children, and babies. the united nations also

reporting that the humanitarian situation inside syria continues to deteriorate. estimating 1.5 million syrians are in desperate need of food and medical supplies. gregg palkot is on the ground inside syria. he joins us from damascus at a pro assad rally. >> reporter: that was one of the things we saw. we have been on the ground for 18 hours and the story has not stopped for a second. the fighting, the clashes, the attacks continue all across the country including in the hotbed of opposition support, the city of homs to the north of here. we spoke with international red cross. they told me they want to go there there and save about 1,000 families caught in the crossfire. civilians in danger of being killed, but they cannot go in because it's too dangerous. we saw rows and rows of white trucks sitting outside.

that mission has been grounded since last saturday. there is nothing to observe. there is no cease-fire. they want to get it started. but it's too dangerous and we are told by folks on the ground that the fighting has only gotten worse since they have stopped going in. kofi annan said he wants to get everything moving, humanitarian aid, missions, you name it, but the fighting has not stopped. he's calling on the international community to help. we heard from the russian foreign minister, a supporter of the syrian regime. he said he will be happy to see syria cooperate. he wants other countries to lean on other sides of this crisis. we saw a pro assad rally in the center of damascus. i must say the was very well orchestrated, megyn. the heavy security we have seen all around damascus, we are told there have been protests, there has been shooting close to the

center of the city just in the past week. the fighting is getting closer and closer to the power center here in this country. one final note about a story we have been tracking for the past couple hours. a tushr turkish -- a turkish fighter plane going down into the waters off the coast of syria. there were reports that syria air defense batteries shot it down. there are report of syria apologizing to turkey. so far none of that confirmed but we can confirm this crisis is dangerous inside the country and it's growing more and more international. back to you, megyn. megyn: thank you. the nation's dig banks in the spotlight after a major ratings agency warns about how these banks are doing. we'll tell you which are affected and what the downgrade may mean for all of us. yesterday you heard some new evidence in the trayvon martin investigation as george zimmerman who is charged with second degree murder reenacted

to the police what he says happened the night he shot the 17-year-old dead. but what you did not hear is what led to the confrontation in the first place. and that is what could determine whether he gets stand your ground immunity down in florida. you will hear it today in the words of george zimmerman himself. >> he came back and he started walking up towards the grass and came down and circled my car. i told the operator that. he was circling my car. i didn't hear if he said anything. but he had his hand in his waistband. i think i told the operator that.

today . megyn: new concerns today about the economy and moody's cuts the credit ratings for 15 of the world's biggest banks. the list includes five major u.s. banks, bank of america,

citigroup, morgan action, and morgan chase. that could be passed on to good old american citizens in the form of higher banking rates and tighter lending policies. we are officially on verdict watch as the fate of jerry sandusky, the former penn state football coach * is in the hands of the jury. the prosecution and the investigators suggesting they are all out to ruin an indent man's life. all this as the defense put on witness after witness to testify that mr. jerry sandusky is a decent plan who would never mow left a child, including testimony from his own wife who took the expand in her husband's defense. joining us to talk about this, dr. keith ablow. let me start with the wife. what happened today is the jury wanted to hear testimony

readback by mike mcqueary who is a key witness. he's the only eyewitness to an alleged a assault. he says he walked into the shower at penn state and saw sandusky attempting to or in the process of raping a young boy. that testimony was readback by the lawyers. they reenacted the testimony. afterwards his wife goes over to her husband and looks sullen. but then they shared a chuckle. help us understand. >> all this hinges of course on whether jerry sandusky is guilty or wrong live accused. however, if you presumed him to be guilty for the purposes of this experiment here, then his wife turns out to be somebody in utter denial. someone who would turn the other way through all of his antics, someone who didn't intuit his

real sexuality. what would you do if you are such a woman you? would chuckle and have a laugh with your man. megyn: you need to continue the denial. >> it's just who she would be at that point. she is essentially an accessory extra in the drama of his life, reading lines and not at all connected with who this real man is. or what's unfolding in front of her, and who better to be your wife if what you really like is boys, a woman who wouldn't even notice. megyn: she testified they had boys sleep over and it was jerry who would go down into the basement to tuck them in. but she wants aware of anything untoward happening down there. i want to talk about the defense in this case. their theory is all of these boys are lying, it's a money grab and they put in a 16-minute tape that caught some of the

investigators talking to one of the alleged victims and talking about what some of the other victims are alleging which is a no-no. that's a key piece of their case. it seems you can't get 8 kids together to make up these kinds of lies. an iraq war vet? but is it possible? >> things are possible. you can have mass hysteria. you can have people swearing things happened in a large group when we know objectively they did not. however, how would you presume these people, these young men, would have to be complete and utter sociopaths. they would want to completely destroy a man's life, his family's life, his reputation. almost homicidal in nature in terms of what they would be doing to him. could that be the case? it feels like a stretch. if i were jerry sandusky, i

would prove i'm not excited. i would be taking three polygraphs and go to the media and say here they are. why wouldn't you do that if your whole life is at stake. megyn: the prosecution put in the tape where he was interviewed with bob costas. and he bawtds when asked if he was attracted to little boys. the prosecution scored a key victory by getting in these letters, these love letters, these creepy letters sandusky wrote to some of these little boys. he wrote -- this is an example. the churning in my across when you don't care. i still hope there will be neengt time we have known each other. the defense wants the jury to

believe he wrote those letters because he had hystronic personal disorder. >> it seems completely outside. could it explain why someone writes with a flourish and says things in letters that seem completely crazy? yeah. by that doesn't explain why someone would pick $100 out of your pocket. it doesn't explain why people would say he raped me. that's not along with hystrionic personality disorder. megyn: one thing the jury does not know. after they went into that

deliberation room, his adopted son now grown came out and said he was molested by jerry sandusky. thank you so much for being here. there are growing questions about whether the parents of murdered border patrol agent can do what congress has not been able to do. kent and josie terry are trying to convince the white house and the justice department to produce all the documents that relate to what they believe is a coverup of the death of their son. >> brian did ultimately come home that christmas. we buried him not far from the house that he was raised in just prior to christmas day.

megyn: breaking news as an historic auction wraps up in new york city. gorge washington's personal copy of the constitution and bill of rights was just sold at christie's auction house it was expected to command a price of between $2 million and $3 million. how did it do? >> reporter: he's speaking from the heavens above. this precious piece of historical history was sold today. it was expected to go between $2 million and $3 million. there was an intense bidding war and that price went up and up and up. the final price here, the book was sold with fees for $9 million.

the winner was a representative from the mount vernon lady's association which owns and operates george washington's estates. the book will be on display starting in 2013. it's one of the rarest presidential document to be put up for auction it was printed in 1789 and is embossed with the words "president of the united states on the fronts. one of the most unique things in the book are george washington's annotations in the margins. that makes this book even more valuable. here is reaction from the top bidder. >> it was thrilling. i had a quiet resolve with the support of the ladies who are on the board that we were determined to bring it home. >> reporter: the book was kept at mount vernon until 1876 when

washington's family sold it. the record was a manuscript of a lincoln address. today they have this grand number to boast. megyn: lincoln's went for $3.4 million. washington's went for $9. >> reporter: a lot of that today. megyn: thanks, laura ingle. do we know who bought it? >> reporter: yes, that was the mount vernon lady's association. good for them. i thought it was glenn beck. he was the other one. thank you, ladies. if you got it -- how cool. coming up. the parents of a murdered border

patrol agent match thing up the pressure on the white house, demanding the truth come out in operation fast and furious. we'll have a fair and balanced debate right after this break. the trayvon martin shooting. yesterday we showed you george zimmerman's reenactment of what he says happened that fateful night. but what you did not see is how he got there in the first place. this could be critical to the defense stand your ground immunity. what happened in the moment before the two men started to fight? >> he looked around. that's what threw me off. it's raining. i didn't understand why somebody would be just stopping -- it wasn't like he was trying to run to get out of the rain and i never seen him before. ♪ why not make lunch more than just lunch?

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megyn: there are questions today about whether the parents of a murdered border patrol agent can do what the u.s. congress cannot do. the parent are asking the government to release documents relating to operation fast & furious. after the president ordered those document locked up under

executive privilege the family issued a statement saying america deserves the truth. here are terry's parents and the white house press secretary talking about the truth. >> they are lying big time. big time. they are passing the buck. i just know that they are hiding something big. something happened out there. worse than what we know. >> reporter: the family of brian terry, at his murder scene, two of these guns were found. they disagree with your characterization about these character staitions. they say the attorney general's refusal to disclose the document and president obama's assertion of executive privilege compound the tragedy. that's a statement from the terry family. >> we absolutely agree with the

need to find out the truth about why fast and furious happened and the tactic employed in the previous administration and previous operations and stopped by this attorney general, why it came about, that's why the attorney general referred it to the inspector general. that's why we provided congress every document that per tan is to the operation itself that is at issue when you talk about the family that you referred to. the terry family. megyn: he has been taking some heat for not appearing to not know or at least not referencing the name of the family. joining me now, jay and julian. they have been with us from the beginning on this case. jay sekulow and julian epstein. everybody feels for those parents, i think it's fair to say.

i know the two of you done i do as well. but the question is whether this takes it to another level. we have been talking about the legal ramifications. they take it out of that. they take it to the -- they take it to a different place. does it put more pressure on the administration? >> i think it does. because what gets lost sometimes in the discussions that the three of us have had, there is a border patrol agent, the terry family lost their son. that's the tragedy of course. they are also looks like hundreds of mexican citizens killed as well at the hands of these weapons. but when you make it personal, that's the situation here. the plea coming from his family. they don't have answers. not only do they not have answers, they don't know exactly what happened here. this is the tragedy of invoking executive privilege. the idea now that the terries will not get an answer to their legitimate questions. i don't think this is politics

when you are talking about the family of the agent. you are talking about human beings want to go know what happened to their son and why this whole project started in the first place. i think jay carney was in a tough spot. he didn't have the name of brian terry. really it's a tough spot for the press person in a situation like this. no one here listening to this broadcast doesn't feel for the family and they are the ultimate victims in this horribly ridiculous and tragic gun running scheme. there is a dead border patrol agent. that's the problem. megyn: the administration's position, as sympathetic as you are to the family, it doesn't mean necessarily that the republicans are entitled to what they are asking for. is there a danger in making that political point too forcefully now that you have the parents so emotionally coming out? >> i think everybody has sympathy for the family, the nation owed a debt of gratitude

to the family. border patrol agents often perform heroic acts. they are underpaid and underrecognized. the human dimension of this can't be denied. that said we may not be as far apart as we think we are. the documents relating to the operation itself, most of those have been provided to the committee. the 79,000 document outstanding, the committee conceded they are not entitled to them because they relate to ongoing law enforcement matters. the document in dispute don't relate to the operation of operation fast & furious. they relate to whether senior justice officials were aware that there was gun walking going on. those document get into thorny issues about executive privilege which can be overcome if there is a compelling case to overcome them. holder was willing to make an accommodation on those in exchange for the contempt citation being taken off the

table. that's a dance the committees and agencies often go through. we are in a very sticky issue now involving executive privilege. the committee can overcome if they can make a compelling case -- megyn: you tell me. when the american people -- when our viewers watching the show will analyze this on their couches, are they thinking about the issue of executive privilege in are they thinking about those parents? >> that's exactly right. they are thinking about the family. here is one thing that's confusing i think to a lot of us. the attorney general -- remember that discussion we had a long time ago where there was not even a call made by the attorney general to the family and ultimately they did make it. there has been no explanation give to the family. that's the real tragedy. the justice department is trying to figure out internally what went wrong.

they still need an explanation as what happened to their son. that's the real tragedy. you can argue whether the privilege will apply or not apply. but we are talking about the human side of this. >> let me try to not disagree with jay. i agree, i think we are -- our hearts all really go out to the family. i think jay is also right. we want to satisfy the family that the questions have been answered. that is of ultimate importance here. you know, i would point out in the attorney general's defense that he did stop this program. guns walking did occur under the bush administration. he did called for an independent investigation under the inspector general. the document in dispute do not relate to exactly what was going on with respect to operation fast & furious. megyn: you made that point. i want to play some sound and ask you what you think about the difference here.

hold off on that sound bite i just asked for. william lajeunesse had this at the top of the hour. listen to the top democrat on issa's committee. listen to what he says. listen to plastery now reacting to the promise, then his to the democrats' message today. let's roll it all. >> we'll not rest until every single person responsible for all of this, no matter where they are, are brought to justice. >> you stood there right to my face and told me that you would do everything and bring anybody to justice no matter how high up it was and who it was. what happened? >> the very same people holding him in contempt are part after nationwide scheme to suppress the vote. they are closely allied with those who are suffocating the

system unlimited special interests, secret money, and they are poisoning the debate. megyn: a very different tone. >> nancy pelosi -- that was the stupidest statement from a minority leader in response to this tragedy to start talking about suppressing the vote. that was ridiculous. cummings made a statement now the administration needs to back him up and get the information to the family. nancy pelosi's statement saying this is being done to suppress the vote? that's mind boggling that they can make matters worse for themselves. the democratic leadership needs to be thinking through this more than they are. they need to hire julian. they are coming up with these kinds of statement that makes it look like they are not caring for the family and just

ridiculous statement. and really pathetic. >> let me take a shot at it. i think, again, the nation owes a debt of gratitude to the terry family and we owe it to the terry family on a bipartisan basis to make sure all their questions are satisfied and answered. i think we all agree on that. i think the point some democrats are making is in this congressional investigation arena, this has become a very, very partisan process, the democrats at least some of them believe that what the republicans on the committee are trying to do is politicize this in an election year and that never gets us to the truth, that never gets us to the answers. that's in part why we have an inspector general doing an independent investigation on this. megyn: how long is that going to take? >> i would hope within a couple months. >> i hope before the election. megyn: another great debate as always. two of our favorite guests. jay and julian.

thank you so much. we showed you the video of george zimmerman telling police what happened to him during the confrontation before trayvon martin was shot dead. but what you did not hear or see is how he says the confrontation start in the first place. that's critical to whether he can assert stand your ground immunity. we'll look at that video next in "kelly's court." [ male announcer ] this was how my day began. a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪

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megyn: "kelly's court" is back in session. on the back the today, new questions about george zimmerman's story about the night he pulled the trigger and killed trayvon martin as he says in self-defense. george zimmerman act out with police what he says happened. but what you did not hear is how zimmerman got there in the first place. listen to him describe his version of events leading up to the confrontation in his own words.

>> i saw him -- i saw him walking back that way and then cut through the back of the houses. he looked back and in thed me and cut back through the houses. i was still on the phone with non-emergency. then he came back and started walk up towards the grass, then came down and circled my car. i told the operator that. he's circling my car. i didn't hear if he said anything. he had his hand in his waistband. i think i told the operator that. and they said, "where are you?" and i could not remember the name of the street because i don't live on this street. megyn: joining me now, jonna spilbor and brian claypool. we watched the extended version are he talked about the extended version. trayvon said you are going to

die tonight f fer. he says trayvon started circling his car. the advantage mr. zimmerman has, not to sound crass is the other party to this event is dead. and so who will contradict him on these allegations? >> obviously no one. but i think there is more to this story. i think this evidence is helpful to zimmerman. look at his demeanor when he's explaining this. if you compare this video to the written statement he gave to police shortly thereafter. it's pretty consistent. george zimmerman said i got out of my truck because i didn't know where i was, i was looking for some sort of street sign. that will be critically helpful in his defense. megyn: he said trayvon martin

waltz initial aggressor and got in his face and wanted to know why he was -- zimmerman was following trayvon. i just want to play before i get you to react a sound bite from the girlfriend by phone. she was on the phone with trayvon and she is the only witness we know of who will directly contradict george zimmerman in trial. >> trayvon says the guy is getting closer, then you hear trayvon say something. >> why are you follow pleading for? >> then what happened. >> man, like oh, man. what are you doing around here. megyn: she is apparently prepared to testify trayvon told her zimmerman was approaching him, not the other way around. >> i'll tell you what, if i was in the george zimmerman camp i would be calling the paramedics. the noose around his neck is

tightening. his credibility is at heart of this case. i'll tell you if i'm the prosecution in this case, exhibit a in this case will be the 911 tape, exhibit b will be the recorded statement he gave at the police department, and exhibit c will be this audiotape. because the audiotape reenactment is completely at odds with what he articulated in the 911 tape. i went back and re-read the 911 tape this morning temperature george zimmerman never said in that 911 call that trayvon martin was circling his truck. never sit. what he said was trayvon martin was staring at him initially. he's staring at him. then he says, trayvon martin ran away. he ran. megyn: that's odd. >> that's completely contradictory. megyn: we'll discuss it continuing after this break.

megyn: brian's point is there is an inconsistency between the 11 tape and what zimmerman said to the cops on this tape. writeups of others point to other alleged inconsistencies. you still say this is good for zimmerman? >> i do. the issues was zirm mant aggressor. if he was the stand your ground won't apply to him. but he says to the police when he was walking back to his truck, he called him the suspect, trayvon, he emerged from the darkness and said do you have a problem. zimmerman said no and trayvon said words to the effect, you do now. if that is believed it will be critical for zimmerman. megyn: the jury will have

zimmerman saying that, and the girlfriend saying the opposite. and then the jury is going to have to draw a conclusion. they will poke holes in zimmerman's story -- brian, is the jury going to be able to find beyond a reasonable doubt that zimmerman is the liar? >> two issues. you have the immunity hearing that will be held first. that hearing evolve around one major issue, whether zimmerman was the aggressor. the jury trial deals with a lot more issues. for purposes of the immunity hearing i believe this videotape reenactment will destroy zimmerman's credibility. these videos rarely help a defendant in a criminal case because it locks him into the story. everybody needs to go back to that 911 tape on the internet. zimmerman clearly says, trayvon

is running away. the 911 operator says you don't need to chase after him. the cops are on their way. megyn: is that enough to say beyond a reasonable doubt that he's lying being and belongs in jail for second degree? >> no, it's not enough to save he's lying about everything. we have to look at the other facts. when he makes the video it's interesting he has the two butterfly band-aids on his head. you can see the marks on his face. the police officer said you tell me you got punched several times and your injuries are not consistent with that kind of beating, but we still have evidence of injury. megyn: we'll be right back. i'm robert shapiro. over a million people have discovered how easy it is

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assistant football coach, jerry sandusky. one day after a stunning accusations from his own son. who says the former coach abused him, too. there is word of a dangerous air leak at a bioterror germ lab where scientists study deadly disease. and should a 12-year-old boy face battery charges for spitting? we probably need to tell you where the spit landed and what accompanied it. well report. you decide. unless breaking news changes everything. on "studio b." first from fox at 3:00 in new york city, americans are getting more relief 59 the pump as gas prices plunge. it is hartley the result of the sluggish economy because demand for oil is not there here or anywhere. the low cost could save you billions, and lead to more spending, and, maybe, an