jobs. >> jonas, do you think it's that unhealthy, there's a credit with small businesses that help the margins in this case. >> and a tax deduction, the concept of employees having to pay for insurance in the first place is what hurts. it's hurting jobs for decades. and no one has the proposals to get off the system and unfortunately, it's more of the current situation, now, i will say a lot, hiring is better off this week than before the supreme court, because, if this whole situation ises bad. it would cost more to hire somebody because they wouldn't have had the mandated policies and the premiums are higher than they're going and they're marginally better. >> and i'm going to have to go with your brother who also-- >> jonas has the pretzel logic thing. >> and i got lost 30 seconds

into what he was saying, look, in my simple way, what i think is going to happen. the supreme court decided that the mandate is a tax, taxes are bad. taxes hurt the economy and to go back to toby's point. the small business has 50 employees, now has to mandate it, the attackses for paying $100,000, that's $100,000 out of their pact and there's been small business that is saying, hey, look, i've got to close one of my restaurants because i can't afford that 100,000, the left will say you have the tax credits and apply for exemption, i'll buy that. but the $100,000 cost doesn't go away. and what does that have for the job. >> here is what it does to jobs. the $100,000 is sucked out of the economy, so, people then can have to pay less to go to those restaurants, less to buy things, and yeah, if you're in the health care industry, that's the place to beimraplace anyone, young, old, go to the

health care industry, everyone else is going to suffer. >> julian, everyone talks about how business owners small businesses owners have been craving certainty, now they finally got it. doesn't that help in terms of whether or not they're going to hire? they now know, this is it, this is the law of the hand? >> i think so that's right. and i think that business owners are making their decisions based on other things and just put the facts on the table. first of all, the tax penalties according to the supreme court justice roberts will effect a little more than 1% of the people. secondly, 96% of u.s. businesses, all businesses under 50 employees are exempt. third, those businesses above 50 employees, the remainder at 4%, 93% of those already provide insurance, health insurance for their employees. what small businesses get here. they get 35 to 50% of their premiums, back to them, rebated back to them through the form of tax credits. and so, you know, you heard

during the course of this debate and an enormous amount of support. the round table, the business round table support this had, you have support from the hospitals, you have support from business interests on-- >> and basically, no real impact on jobs, julian, what you're basically saying. >> i think it's good for jobs and good for the economy. >> oh, my god. >> let me finish the point, guys. >> hold on, hold on, larry i'll get to you. >> we can have a conversation if we don't shout over each other. most of our industrialized competitors, they overwhelmingly provide insurance for their employees, a critical part of our international competitiveness and attract a talented work force. >> you can't take out shouting we have no bulls and bears, get with the program. now, larry, go ahead. >> you know, this is the straw that broke the camel's back, for small and medium sized businesses in particular, they are under attack in this country right now. the regulatory environment,

they tax incertainty, if i talk to the businesses every day and they're saying, now what, i'm not in the mood to hire, it's not just because of the health care law, it's because of health care law in addition to everything else, they're already dealing with, now, certainly, we can't blame the health care law for the malaise on main street, but it's not helping matters, it's the not going to encourage anyone to go out and hire and it's going to hurt wages because the companies are going to pass that through and-- >> and with the clean response. rather than these platitudes, rather than the platitudes, can we refer to some facts here. >> jewel yin, hojulian, you're one-- we'll get on, finish your sentence. >> saying it hurts the middle class, it's regress seive and the worst of all kinds of taxes and if we had an about thor business environment and a favorable business environment. we can handle this potentially, we may not like it, but we can handle it. >> toby, that's the issue right now, we're in attend recovery, what does this do,

does it slam on the breaks? >> let's talk about some economic facts. when you reduce demand, i believe at some point in time, the left is arguing that we have a demand problem that it's not a tax problem, it's a demand problem. >> two things here, first off, the actual premiums have gone up so much that that's taking cash out of sit. and now for the business standpoint. there's no question at the margin, that's how we make decisions at the margins, the employee, or like me, it's not worth it, so i'm just not going to take that risk, now, you have to multiply that. remember the multiplier effect by 2.5 million small businesses and that's where the jobs get subtracted from the economy. >> julian, 30 seconds, go ahead, take them on. >> okay, so i, too, employ people at a small business and i talk to small businesses all the time who tell me premiums are the same or lower, secondly, taxes are lower than they ever have been, and taxes are at 15% of grosse pointe woods.

woods-- the remaineder of the businesses, those businesses are providing coverage already and that small businesses get 50% of their premiums rebated to them through the form of tax credit. respond to the facts. >> brenda: gary b, go ahead. >> okay, let's, first of all, as i mention right upfront. this whole rebate thing is just moving money around. so, what-- and i think the the bigger point is, that the left says, oh, my gosh, and julian makes the point. this will create jobs and i don't understand what's being created here, how could-- it's like saying, okay, every business out there has to provide a cappuccino machine for their employees and that's going to create jobs. no, it's not going to create jobs. it's going to move money around and move money out of one sector and into the cappuccino maker sector, there's no net new jobs being created here, that doesn't make any logic. >> okay, jonas, coffee maker, go ahead. >> it's been growing for decades faster than inflation, what would have caused them to

go up faster than the trajectory, they're on. if the mandate wasn't there, more people on insurance paying premiums into the system and only thing keeping the employer with relatively affordable insurance and still on the hook for it. >> five seconds, toby, that it. >> i can't with the health insurance, under 50 employees. >> that's the last word. lawmakers rushing to spend before jetting out of town for the july 4th recess, why no rush to cut? neil and his gang are on it at the bottom of the hour, but up here first, stockton, california and north las vegas, nevada. both broke with you both could be deciding if taxpayers everywhere get a tax break? we'll explain. my bad.

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>> this is an extreme weather alert. i'm patti ann browne. west virginia is under a state of emergency, and more than 2 million people on the east coast face dangerous high heat

with no air conditioning, deadly summer storms, tearing across the the midwest into the mid atlantic, there are five confirmed deaths in the washington d.c. area, winds reportedly reaching 80 miles per hour and violent thunderstorms downing trees and killing a 90-year-old woman in this virginia home. another man was killed in his car. and overseas, a first for egypt in the arab world. the first freely elected islam president is sworn in morsi succeeding mubarak ousted more than a year ago. i'm patti ann browne, back to bulls and bears, log on to our website, you're watching the most powerful name in news, fox news channel. >> when going broke could actually pay off. this week, cash strapped stackton, california becomes the biggest u.s. city to file for bankruptcy production.

now, north las vegas declaring a state of emergency, both battling soaring costs for public workers, and that's why gary b says, this bankruptcy trend is the taxpayer's friend. gary? >> absolutely, brenda, you have a city like stockton, almost a half a billion dollars in health care benefits that they owe, a city where you could retire at 50 years old and get health care for life. so, they have a the lot of problems and they're learning now a good lesson, it's a sad lesson, but it's a lesson that they're able to now go back to bankruptcy and renegotiate with these large unites, these large pensions and it's showing that the large public unions are not like where resistance is futile. so you can actually tighten your belt and i think that's good for taxpayers and good for the people of stockton and north legislation and i tell you what, probably a few other cities down the line. >> so, toby, it could potentially be role models for

other state and city and even the federal government maybe? >> well, i have dear friends in stockton, able to tell you they've been the role model for everything. and people spending other people's money and building an arena, and building a new mayor and a new store owned by the government, for crying out loud. and those things went upside and and secondarily, based on transactions and property taxes all of which are not sustainable. this is the lesson if you build a strong foundation, your city will continue. if you build unsustainable it goes down the tubes. >> jonas, there are victims here, what about the creditors and borrowers? >> all the lenders get hosted, yeah, the taxpayers made out there, but then, also, hurts everybody else lending to other states and counties and such because this'll-- other towns are solvent to to borrow at a higher rate because the loser town-- >> you didn't gain any friends in stockton.

>> the problem in stockton is two-fold, they can't raise taxes by decree, and they can't cut union pay and all of this-- those are two solid problems, raise revenue, your property tax and property revenues and down 80% of that. and you've got to raise the property tax and you don't just go bankrupt to solve your problems. >> gary b. other cities are hurting, too, it's not just stockton, i used to vacation there, it's not such a bad place. >> okay, well, notice-- i tell you what, brenda, in my neck of the the woods or old neck of the woods, harrisburg, pennsylvania is another city that faced problems, the problems is that in good times, they did not allocate enough money, thinking that there might ever be a rainy day and it's just like the individual out there, they just max out their credit card and now they have debts they can't handle. so, hopefully, yeah, it's a good lesson, i agree with jonas, someone gets hosed and that happens with any bankruptcy and lenders won't lend to cities in the future

where there's a problem. >> that's not a good future. >> let me get larry in here, go ahead. >> brenda, i agree that this is at that sort of teachable moment that we talk about and in financial literacy, we want to sit down at the dinner table and say, look, this is what happens when you spend more than you have. and this is what happens when you're broke, and this is what happens and it's a good lesson not us just by municipal, but the federal government can learn a thing or two. if you let things get out of control. 16 trillion in debt you'll end up like stockton and finally look, it's like a mini version of mediterranean europe, you don't have the site, don't have the food and the beaches, but you have the deck problems and this is exactly what can happen and that's the example that we need to learn from, and reflect in their own liefrms. >> julian don't bash stockton, but go ahead. >> it's a terrible model, takes a long time from cities to recover. and they love the argue of the public unions, the fact of the matter is, in dozens of states

public unions are making concessions on pension and other benefits, when folks have looked at this and studied it, the impact of the public unions on the fiscal debt problems of local governments, there's an impact there, but it's not the major impact. the major impact has been the plummeting of the housing market. when george bush was president in 2002, 2003 and a recession and economic down turn, he was the one that said the federal government, i know i'm minority on this panel that thinks the federal government can play pa constructive role when we have an economic down turn. gosh bush said the federal government needs to step in and be the, the person of last resort here. help teachers, help firefighters, help stabilize the local economy and it worked in 2002. >> that's not austinable either. they got themselves in a deep hole. we couldn't solve. >> brenda: that's got to be the last word, guys. all right, so, forget the buzz about the health care ruling, did you hear about the other court ruling? this one could cost you a bundle. [ horn honks ]

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>> coming up the other court ruling that you may not have heard about that could have us all playing up and they're back and we'll see

>> it's the legal ruling no one was talking about. but should be be the court of appeals giving more power to regulate carbon emissions, without congressional approval. and larry, you say this is going to have all of us paying? >> that's right. this is going to get passed through and the real issue here is the role of government, the role of bigger government and the role of government regulating and the government had a tendency to regulate first and ask questions later and that's just wrong and we're all going to pay the price. >> there are some benefits,

not just costs here, right? >> and air quality not economy. and when it does something like make fuel environmental, he had the electricity. but they need to be tiny and 50 miles per hour, it saves they feel money. you'll spend less on the car and the gas. >> brenda: gary b. take this on. >> this is an agency that has a 10 billion dollars budget and grown almost 30% under the current administration and it is, as jonas says, an environmental agency, but in order to akiev that and say taxing agency. and in order to do that, it taxes, it hurts the economy. >> julian, help or hurt the economy and consumers? >> as a matter of constitutional law, the congress did not have the legislative veto, that's been known for three decades and it's the third time we've slam-dunked the arguments and headed by chief judge david san tell, who was an arch conservative and the science

is extremely solid, the need to reduce it by 6 trillion a day, 6 trillion metro tons is absolutely critical and save consumers at the pump and reduce reliance on imported oil. >> brenda: toby, last word. >> yeah, we can't afford it and we certainly can't afford it, there's a ton of reasons why we can't. i'll tell you that next week. >> brenda: thanks, guys and thanks to julian and larry for joining us, and always like having you. well, fire up the grills for the the 4th of july barbecues, we're holding these guy's feet to the fire. we've got their best and worst calls so far in 2012. including the people already serving up over 30% gains that could turn into a year end profit.

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>> it's the most fair and balanced way to make tv. the worst call on 2012. how you can profit from them right now in the half year scoreboard. here we go, we do the bad and good on bulls and bears,

saving the the best for last and starting with the best of the worst or i don't know, something like that. (laughter) >> jonas, you're up first, here we go. and nc technologies was your pick by april. fallen by 20%, you stand by that call? >> yeah, they're in the oil finding business. this is the way to go. >> brenda: on to number two, toby in february, you said sen teen was based to shoot up, and dropped 36%, will it rebound or is this a bust? >> it will because it got hammered not knowing what's going on in the health care business, they serve medicaid i'd be a buyer. >> brenda: now for the worst call so far in 2012. gary b, in march you were believer m blackberry and research in motion and left you and investors with a black eye, rim down 50%, still a believer? >> no, brenda. in 13 years since we have a been doing this show, this is my most embarrassing -- it

just, it's awful. >> brenda: never make mistakes. >> please don't touch it and that was bad and i'm sorry. >> brenda: oh, wow, we never hear that hear, thanks for owning up. now to the best calls and toby, you're going to kick things off, and in march you said, connect with linkedin and spending up 15.7%, time to buy more or take the profit and run. >> i do want to take a little profit, but run into the next two quarters because they're on a roll, a real business not like facebook. >> brenda: on to number two, back in february, jonas said verizon was about to dial. >> beat me by a point. >> brenda: so far gaining 17%, still like it, jonas. >> it's very high above average dividend stock pays as well and stick around for even though the stock price upside is more or less, a safe stock in case the other one tanks with oil. >> brenda: very he good. you didn't say you were sorry for that one.

kn now for the number one call so far, gary b, you said in january, delta was about to take off, boy, you were right. it's 32% higher. will it continue flying? >> i think so, brenda, i think it's kind of weather the storm. people still have to fly and pe people still want it fly and it's a relatively low and good stock to have in one portfolio. >> very, very nice call all of you, you can make money on this show, you know, thanks, guys, only get that facebook crazy and grilling right here, but you want to know what? the real best call is to keep watching because neil is next. cavuto on business. >> the very week the u.s. supreme court says the president's health care law is fit, taxpayers are about to thro a fit. welcome, everybody, happy to have you, do any of you

remember this. >> for us to say that you've got to take is responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase. >> neil: so much for that. because the high court says that the law is indeed a tax, and the obama administration had argued before the court that it was a tax. and now, more than 800 billion dollars in added taxes are coming your way. a lot much them hitting people making a lot less than that magic number of $200,000 a year. get out your wallet, the cost of this thing is about to make you sick. >> we go to ben stein and charles payne and dagen mcdowell along with adam lashinsky and charlie gasperino. >> right. and i mean, and you know, it's funny to hear the media covering this thing and the great things it protects, it leaves out the great costs it also presents. >> and it leaves out the media, leaves out why it's constitutional. and listen, just on an individual basis, just for people, forget about the companies, small businesses,