that lower tax rates spur jobs growth. they are directly related to labor costs. you know, mr. steve forbes loves statistics. we will not bore you with it. will it increase jobs . washington is serious about cutting its own budget and expecting less out of our pockets . we have booming industry and we have a high unemployment rate. and it is an expensive state to do business n

they're moving jobs to other states. bucking the trend at least it is moving to new york pretty soon. we have state and city income taxes that are way up and tolls are up and sales taxs and sintaxes. and be prepared maybe we ought to stay in california. who among us thinkings is it is not true. it is a correlation . and why do we have more. i wish it were true and doesn't seem to be. mark pointed out that labor

costs played a major role. but there is something that plays a important role. consumer demand. you can have nothing but money in the bank . you will not spend it on jobs if people are not buying your product. that's where we solve the problem. >> john, is there a connection between tax rates and jobs? >> yeah, this one is so basic . there are no companies and jobs without investment and if you want to increase investment, you take less out from individuals that are working. and if you want to boost job creation through the tax code, you have to reduce price of work and investment on those most able to kill jobs. this will kill rick. the vital few in society that invest and create the jobs. >> steve, there is no known study connecting job growth with

lower tax rates, what did you say. >> real world. 1960s and kennedy tax cuts kicked in we had a much more vibrant decade. and japan cut taxes every year and grew at a 10 percent rate and cutting taxs and going on binging. and france same thing. and we don't need a study. we need to look at the real world. >> hold on a second, mark. we may not have had many tax increases in the past couple of years because of the recession . but there is a whole list of new taxes coming in on obama care. >> we'll wait and see what happens. >> may i finish the question. that is weighing on whether or not to hire new workerings. >> take the real world and look at vicki's example of san

francisco. vacancy are down and people are hiring in a high tech environment. people are not saying i will not move to san francisco or do business because of tax rates. taxes do not influence. >> victoria wants in. >> it is a very two-tier economy. tech side. that is true. there is a lot of venture money flushing in start ups. but talking to small business owners, they are not hiring because of the incredibly high taxes. local taxes are nuts and the cost of hiring every new employee is too high and so they are not hiring. >> john, there is a net exodus and companies that are leaving say it is the high tax rates. >> yes, people are not considering the unseen here. we can talk about the companis and jobs created in california. but what is unknown or unseen,

facebook and other inteles and youtubes would be created absent this kind of tax environment that takes too much from the productive. >> rick, don't you think that a lot of businesses. i talk to a lot of small and medium ones that are holding off on hiring because they are worried about the tax increases coming through obama care and what happens in january of 2013? >> it is interesting and goes to john's point where he goes to earlier. it is obvious if you put money in their pocket they will invest. it is not obvious and not true. there are trillions sitting on the books and they are not investing, to your question there is truth there and we saw a study that backs it up. there is something to show that people are hanging back to see what happens in the election. but looking at the reason, it doesn't appear to be about taxes. could there be influence in terms of obama care?

not on the small company that is you referenced and 15 d below employees but has influence on the larger companies steve a lot of them have people at minimum wage and people who don't normally have insurance. with the obama care taxes on line, they could get killed by this. >> i talked to a number of restauranteers and they will cut back or go out of business. in the real world when you add burdens to people they do less. and we did in the 30s and 70s doing it again today. and little countries that kept tax rates down are growing. >> i will give you a name. zane owns more apple bees in new york than any other. he has three projects waiting on

line before january 2013, if in fact taxes go up. he will not start the new projects. a couple of quick things on that. there are spectacular issues as it pertain to restaurant urs. >> and bear in mind most restaurants are not large chains and most do not give health care benefit to their employee. they will have to after obama care. >> good. that is the point. >> bottom line is, we got to leave it and move on and literally run out of the time. luxury hotels and lear jets and private golf courses. that's what union bosses are buying with union dews. who are the fat cats now?

>> right now there is a dangerous uny scenario in sir yampt new reports of violence spill nothing lebanon as government forces crash in violence rebels are crossing the border for refuge. many families are displace water and electricity and medical supplies are running short. 15,000 people are killed since the fighting began and the annual running of the bulls. kicking off in spain with a week long fiesta. the bulls chasing them on a course. several people were injured. one of them a 73 year old man with a severe leg injury. we send you back with forbes on fox. have a great day. remember this?

wall street executives and hedge fund managers this year collected biggest bonus in our history. >> wall street once more tax cuts for corporation. when is enough, enough? guess what, the labor cats, bashing so call fat cats are just as fat. a fox business executive - on exclusive from lizzie finds that unions are buying hotels and private jets all with unidues. steve hypocrisy going on >> you can't say it is just for bargaining. and the nothe other stuff. you don't have that choice and this year most states if you join a union you have to pay all of the dues, that is not right. >> rick what do you think? >> union members vote for their leadership every year or so and

if they don't like the way the union bosses are controlling the money vote them out of office. let's not get nuts here. you are making the case they are taking home the kind of bonus executives are, they are not. i feel the same way about this as a corpation . they shouldn't waste money on silly things. that said, some of the things are owned by the pension fund. they are investments and i am not sure it is up to us to tell them how to invest with union members money. leave that to the members. >> victoria, if they are just like corporations, shouldn't they pay taxes like corporation? >> they are treated like nonprofits and charity and they don't pay taxes on union dues and investing them in golf courses and luxury hotels and fancy jets. i cannot believe this goes on

and we take money from teacher's and firefighters and putting it in luxly hotels, that they don't get a free night at. >> they pay taxes on these deductions. >> hold on a second. i.r.s. because of elizabeth mcdonald's reporting the i.r.s. is looking into whether the activities they are not paying taxes on they should be. mark, go ahead. >> the i.r.s. is primarily looking at what corpations are doing in steering money to evade campaign limits to lobbyist. >> the i.r.s.? let's be honest. the biggest issue here. (talking all at once.) and the other thing is, half . states, it is a right to work. and people have a choice was whether they want to join the

union or not. and if the union. >> are you a right to work guy, now, mark? >> i am in a right to work state in indiana. and so it is a right to work state now. it is a choice and hypocrisy is not in short supply. >> that i would agree with you. it is plentiful right now. but john, this point, is the, had ypochrissy beyond belief here. hypocrisy is not against the law. i don't have a problem with this as long as the union members believes that representation helps them. i doubt it does. what victoria referenced is the tax status. i don't think we should make churches exempt or think tanks

and i find it offensive that americans have to subsidize the hopes and dreams of others and get rid of tax exempt for all of them. >> and americans subicized the uaw and others with regard to the bailouts. corporations got bailouts. i am against anyone getting a bailout whether it is a corporation or union. that is another bits of hypocrisy. >> yes, they tore up the balance law and stiffed the creditors that was pension fund and the like. >> and used our tax dollars to give the uaw 60 percent was chrysler and big chunk much gm as well. >> saved a lot of jobs. >> yes, comparing it to argentina is right. >> the uaw didn't get what, mark? >> they didn't give anything. >> they certainly did. are you kidding, mark. they got 60 percent was chrysler. that was our tax dollars, steve.

>> and that is a chunk of gm and part of chrysler and didn't take the hit that they would have by bankruptcy. they got bailed out and creditors stiffed, not right. >> i think we agree there is a lot of hypocrisy to go around. >> and relief @ pump? and iran block the hope of recovery this year. carbin in on that. and selling ads on government property. sell the nation's monuments altogether to fix our debt mess. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.

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>> here is a creative way for cash strapped governments to work. one pennsylvania student want to keep the school up for adoption to keep it from closing and european countries leasing out historic stocks. john, you say we should take it a step further. >> as much as i love to give mon tow governments, i think in this case sell them to profit oriented business. i think a private business could do a better job with mount rushmore and yosemite national parks than the governments who manage them. sell them off. >> mark, sell the parks and monument to private interest. >> it is ridiculous. pepsi mount rushmore monument and selling off public assets

and it assume that is private business can run it better than the government. we know that is not true based on the current melt down. >> hold on, rick, have you ever been to monticello. it is run as a private foundation and not a public private. it is private and run pretty damn well. there are signs that the private sector could do a great job. >> i will not get into that argument and it is run well. and run as a nonprofit and we haven't seen advertise am. mark is right. do we want to see malborough man carved in mount rush more and what happens when george soros buys reagan international and changes the name to the soras social memorial bar and grill? >> the fact is, forget mount rush more, the u.s. government

owns thousands of buildings and hundreds of millions of dollars worth of property. should they sell those? >> no. because it is a temporary fix it is a band aid on the problem. the problem is that we are spending too much. you give the u.s. government or state government quick fix and we are just kicking the can down the road and that's why i am against this entirely. >> steve, look at the government as a care taker . just about anything, they make a mess don't they? >> they usually do, david and why they should sell off public lands. we used to do that in the 19th century and naming rights. i rather have george soros buy space in the post office thangthan taking taxpayers and using our money to do it. >> quickly.

how about a pepsi bottle on mount rushmore. >> not at all. steve said it so well i am so sick of seeing politicians put their names on monuments and buildings. do it to private corporation. they do more for us. >> last word, coming up. don't freak out over new fears of a recession. and recession proof stocks and instead names are coming up. to a little girl who saw flames reach her home

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recession worries. and buy these stocks to ease the oracle. >> i like oracle because a large chunk . revenue is recurring. that is guaranteed money.

>> john, what do you think? >> i don't know what oracle does. and so i can't constantly say. in my case target. down turn consumers has basic need and target buys in buck. >> victoria tarjay. >> i love target. but in the down turn they will not shell out. >> that's it for forbes on fox. thank you for watching . number one business block continues with cheryl casone and cashin in. . iran threaten to close down a key oil route. and warning that it will fire u.s. bases. just as drivers are starting to get a break in the butches. could this slam the brakes on a shaky recovery. i am cheryl casone.

let's get to it. johnathon and tracey and wane and john . krisian dorsey is back. welcome to all of you and good to see all of you here. saber rattling could hit the u.s. in the pocket book. >> i don't know why this is not getting bigger play. middle east had problem so long and sabre rattling is not a big deal. no matter what happen in europe . it will take months to develop. iran is producing million barrles of oil. and something has to happen. shut the wells down or give in to the sanctions or do something stupid and if they do something stupid or israel preempts them it could take the economy off of the rails. >> americans for the most part are enjoying lowe