understand the concept. let's bring in some help. art carden. not worry about sending work to other countries? >> fundamental thing about trade it makes everybody better off. it benefits countries and both parties to engage in trade. >> john: those uniforms could have been made by american workers? >> the problems in the united states we are so much better at different things, making garments is what economists call comparative advantage. >> john: i wouldn't call it a problem, it's an advantage, those jobs are factory jobs that are not so pleasant. now even though those clothes are not made in america, they are sold here and shipped in trucks in america and built on machines made by americans

although the chinese made those garments. they will fly them on american planes and wear u.s. designed footwear and this makes us richer? >> it does. people don't get that. one could argue that the american uniforms were not manufactured in china but they were grown in a soy bean field in iowa, something we export to china. we get more uniforms at lower prices. the chinese get more soy beans at lower prices. they get lower prices and everybod wins. >> if we followed people we would be poor. >> problem is not there are too many people. the probe is for the most part

they don't have free markets. they have bad governments. >> john: i think one thing that opened my brain about it. look at some of the population data. i heard that nigeria is poor because of overpopulation, pakistan is poor because of overpopulation. look, they have 174 people per square mile, 225 per people per square mile. that is half of what the netherlands has and holland is rich. they are really rich? >> people's ultimate resource is the mind. one thing that is interesting. >> john: more people is more brains? >> absolutely. more people closer together means more conversation. >> john: overpopulation is not a problem? >> absolutely. >> john: i've been told we're running out of fuel. jimmy carter we're now running out of gas and oil. what happened in the next decade that was more than 30 years ago.

>> if we are running out of oil that implies prices should be rising. but for the most part for decades oil has been getting cheaper and cheaper. even as it gets to start more expensive people start looking for substitutes. they look for natural gas. >> john: these brains keep interest venting new ways to suck more oil out of same well. find more well, dig deeper. we have stores of much more oil and gas than we did when president carter was saying we're running out years ago. let's go on to myths about your personal choices. there is popular blog. it gives contrarian personal advice, you should unschool your kids. it's written by an entrepreneur. he made millions called stock

picker. what do you mean? >> it means our kids are being taught together bathroom, walk, move, eat all by a bell in a school. what do they remember from the school? i'll educate my kids better than the government at this point. so my kids --. >> john: most people want to home school their kids. we trust the experts? >> the experts are getting funding based on the lowest common denominator. so filling circles on test, you listen to most boring teachers of all. what did you learn in school. what do you remember? i can't ask anyone that can tell me when char will have a magne was born. >> so pull them out? >> give them an opportunity to learn. have books available. have drawing materials

available. but i'm willing to pay my kid a to write reviews of books. i'll set up social play dates for being home-schooled or unschooled. >> john: you got to go to college to get a job? >> which is a total myth. we know this is a scamper pet waited by the banks and government to get students and the colleges, tuition has gone up thousand percent inflation has gone up 300 percent. is it really that valuable to get a college degree. >> john: i'm told it is? >> if you had a five-year head start and no student loan debt i'm sure you would do better 20 years later. >> john: another one, we're told everybody should vote. you need vote? >> we all live in new york state.

what good is our vote. >> john: you may not but most of you live in a state that this is true. >> there are four or five battleground states where your vote has a sway on the governor level and president level. >> john: if you live in several swing states, your vote could be a one vote election. finally you both say don't be so scared. what do you mean? >> look at the news. there are worried about europe and greece. things are going pretty well in america. the economy is growing. you would think we are in a horrible recession. we have a biological need to be scared of things. the people that we evolved ran away from the running elephant. they didn't get trampled by the elephant and we are looking out for predators but it's okay for things to be good but all the

headlines are suggesting they are bad. >> john: swine flu, avian flu, mad cow disease? >> what happened with avian flu. >> john: you might have gotten brain cancer from your cellphone. >> maybe we're in hell right now. >> john: it could happen is one of the most dangerous phrases in the english language? >> yes because people tend to overestimated very small risks. for example, threat of terrorism your child must be abducted playing in the front yard. it is what people worry about. if you are genuinely you would never get in a car again. the risk of driving is so much more greater than the risk of dying in a terrorist attack. >> john: even the risk of being killed by a deer. >> or dying of a peanut allergy.

>> john: terrorism killed 3,000 people here in new york. >> and cost $10 trillion and rest of world hate us and increased the odds of terrorism. >> john: food for thought. thank you. what we think we know is often not so. coming up to make a point about this, i will stick my hand in flames. next, how the epa actually kills people. whoa, look at all those toys.

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>> hank goo >> john: thank goodness for government. there are some things i want my government to do. one thing not listed in here in the constitution. something the founders never thought about.

pollution control. my beloved free market isn't so great at handling that one. one factor is smoke goes to other people's lungs. what does the factory care. some libertarians argue we could sue the polluters. but that really wouldn't work. it would take forever and enrich lawyers mostly. that is why i say thank goodness for the epa the environmental protection agency. they made the air cleaner than it used to be. when i was a kid we couldn't open windows because soot would come in. and the river outside was once disgusting but now it's different. >> even here within sight of the empire state building. within the short distance of millions of people flushing i'm willing to do this. >> i lived to tell about it.

hudson is swimable now. it's great that government has cleaned up the air and the water, but now they have accomplished that. okay, we've done most of the good we can do and shrink. government never does. that they always wanted to do more and that upsets one medical doctor. the epa now kills people. this doctor happens to be a u.s. senator, senator john barosso from wyoming. what do you mean? >> i'm a member of the environmental committee and red tape is making americans sick because of the high unemployment rate. when people are out of work for longs periods of time as we are seeing. those folks are out of work that want to go to work more incidents of illness and hospitalizations of premature death. it's because these incredible numbers of rules and regulations

that are costly to our economy and add very little benefit to the environment. >> john: after years of consumer reporting i came to the same conclusion. i assume when you say to most people, what are you talking about the epa makes the world cleaner and that has to be good for our health. a reaction to unemployment making people sick? what? >> if you take a look where we used to be 40 years, the air is cleaner, water is cleaner. we're now at a point to get a very small improvement is very expensive in terms of actual dollars in production of energy as well as in the health of people that are out of work. we see a higher risk of high blood pressure. you see stroke. heart disease as well as depression, anxiety, higher incidents of cancer in these

people and higher rate of suicide. >> it means that the factory may not open. it means every business takes longer to open. money that might have gone to create new things now goes to pollution controls which we want, but it doesn't create the jobs that a free economy does. >> it also closes coal firepower plants, 50 across the country. the impact of that on a community and all of those lost jobs with good paying jobs is devastating to that community. this administration has now issued over 1300 finalized 1300 regulations that are called economic resignificant regulations, they cost the economy. >> john:. >> john: they admit that. >> the cost is over hundred million per regulation but the

epa say the benefits are so great and reduction in future healthcare costs to people, but there is no way to prove that. the costs are real but the benefits are unknown. yet these people are out of work we still have a long period of unemployment in this country and people are getting sick because they can't get back to work. >> john: they say the benefits of avoiding early death preventing heart attacks and asthma far exceed the costs of implementing clean air rules. >> that is their made up numbers. people sitting behind their computer screens hoe are fixated on small improvements. we found that they are cooking the books. fundamentally we see that people that are out of work for an extended period of time have chronic unemployment, higher risks of premature death, higher

risks of strokes and heart disease. anxiety, depression, police chiefs are reporting higher incidents of spousal abuse in a number of cities. it has to do with the economy and the unemployment. >> john: what reaction do you get from your fellow senators when you say this? >> colleagues on my side of the aisle and people that practice medicine like i have for 25 years and taken care of patients who have been out of work for extended periods of time no the added stress that pouts the family. they understand that. people who are fixated with the epa, following a different drummer and really buying into so many of the beliefs of the extreme environmentalists. >> john: this shows what you think you know may not be so. people think they know that the epa is saving us everyday. here is a reaction from a senator.

>> the senator's comments leads me to believe he lives in an alternate universe. >> john: this is what my makes say. >> barbara is the chair of the environmental works committee, that is why i want the republicans to take over the senate. she will not be the chairman anymore. democrats and environmental agenda which is an extreme agenda won't be in charge in calling the shots on this. i worry about this unemployment rate which continues to be so high. so many americans out of work. i wanted to get healthy economy and healthy environment and we can absolutely do both of them. when we follow this extreme environmental agenda, the benefits are unknown, i don't think we're helping our country. >> john: thank you senator john barrosso. what you think you know may not be so.

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>> john: we all have biases, but i grew up believing scientists are special. they are smart, of course, but unusually up by yased and careful and trustworthy. >> they are very accurate, down to earth people. >> dry. >> i know a lot of research people that are kind of dry. >> john: some scientists are kind of dry. my older brother is a scientist but he is also weird and angry sometimes.

that volatility in in s common in science is author of free radicals the secret anarchy of science. anarchy says a physicist is giving us some of the greatest breakthroughs? >> yes, anarchy. lying and cheating, sometimes drug taking. there is all kinds of things to get the job done. >> john: drug taking. you say one fifth of scientists worldwide, one fifth take drugs? >> that was self-disclosing. they said they would be happy to do this occasionally to concentrate more and be more creative and have thoughts that nobody else has had. world documented cases who actually have done extraordinary things while having taking these kind of substances.

the scientists that won a nobel prize says he was high on lsd? >> there is man says that he couldn't have won his noble prize without taking lsd. it helped him find a way to copy dna. >> they also break the rules. barry marshall who cured ulcers by discovering the bacteria, he had to break what rules? >> he broke the ethical rules how you go about doing an experiment. you don't involve your colleagues that might be dangerous. when he won his noble prize, he had a cupful of bacteria they would cause a stomach ulcer inside of him. his colleagues was kind of do it

and don't tell kind of thing. he didn't his wife. >> john: all these people that were drinking milk. their ulcers are ghron is anti-bacteria? >> it's how you treat ulcers. >> john: lies and deceit? >> fist fights that break out at seminars and certainly a lot of defeat and fraud that goes on. one-third of scientists actually admit to committing signed of fraud in research. and they say this is what you have to do to get the job done. the data doesn't replicate like you would expect it to and colleagues are out to get you. >> john: my brother is upset

about these new financial disclosure rules. people think, if there is on money to be made that will bias the science but just competition we want to kill each other. my colleagues would ran or their grandmothers to get some advancement? >> absolutely. there is no prize for second place in science. you don't find a lot of rich scientists. all you have is fame, your place in history for making this discovery. it's intensely competitive thing. >> john: why don't people know about this anarchy? >> it's like a brand and make itself look good. it goes back to the second world war ii. when people hated science, the atomic bomb and we've seen nerve gases being used and experiments on prisoners of war. people were very distrustful of scientists. they wanted to make sure they

didn't do anything the public might be scared of. they portrayed themselves as ultra objective. >> john: trustworthy. >> right. we're going to make the world a better place. >> even albert einstein, a big myth about him. we were taught, i was taught came up and proved the theory of relativity. >> obviously, e equals mc squared? >> not quite einstein's. he owned it during most of his lifetime but he tried to prove it about eight times. every time there was something wrong with his proof. at one point in the footnote of one his papers of course this isn't rigorous, his colleagues pointed out to him. by the end of his life, he covered everything he did in

science but he left that out. i think that tells you what he ultimately felt. >> john: you say they should admit this stuff? >> it's human. we want our kids -- i don't we will be scared of them. we are scared about robots or zombies. we like human beings and we will forgive their flaws and their behaviors. it actually makes them more like us. >> john: thank you michael brooks. coming up what you don't know about cheating. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? it's the amino acid metabolite, hmb to help rebuild muscle and strength naturally lost over time. [ female announcer ] ensure muscle health has revigor and protein to help protect, preserve, and promote muscle health.

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>>. >> john: do you cheated? ever? never? come on. you lie to be polite to people. you say you look thin. or maybe you take pens home from work. you probably don't take paid cash home from work. why? where is the line? intuition what stops people from cheating or stealing is when the risk of being caught or the severity of punishment exceeds the benefit of getting something for nothing, but the author of the honest truth about dishonesty how we lie to everyone says that is not the reason. he is a psychology professor at duke.

not about getting away with it? >> no. it turns out the biggest effect comes from the fact, on one hand we want to view ourselves as honest, caring people. on the other hand we want to benefit from dishonesty. what we try to do is balance the two forces, how can you do both? you are either honest or you cheat. as long as you cheat just a little bit and we can think of ourselves as honest people. taking pencils from work, works quite well, taking petty cash, you can't justify it. >> john: the fact it's money feels like stealing. >> even in golf there are easier ways, if you take a ball and you move it four inches deliberately this is no, no, but kicking it a little bit and moving it just a little bit is okay. >> john: what is the

psychological rationale? >> it's about rationalization. it wasn't me, everybody else is doing it. this is what they intended and so on. >> john: everybody else is doing it idea. you say cheating is contagious? >> in cheating we teach kids how to cheat. we tell them to be poe lighted for other people. when kids point at, polite. when kids point at me. don't point. >> john: you have had an injury, your face was burned in an explosion? >> most of my body. in shorts it's much more clear but when kids point that. it's i am polite. >> how is it cheating? >> basically to the kids don't say everything that so your mind. don't be fully honest but don't make it external. we have to keep a front.

this is not perfectly honest. >> john: doping in sports? >> we get news reports about all the people that dope in sports. what is acceptable or not acceptable? where would you find out. >> john: from the other athletes and you are sucker if you don't. >> its position that throws me, he says he last athletes and has patients and the actual amount of doping is lower than people believe. people believe we can do it, as well. illegal downloads, everybody is doing it. it's perfectly fine to do it as well. >> john: i tested this when i was at abc, went over to miami beach and put out a buffet that said ffn society. >> we made the group up. it stands something for nothing. but the buffet was appealing.

lamb chops. people started inspebh go the food. >> so what do you think, here is a psychologist. did people take the food. >> it's hard to be the first person. there is something police teen out there and if you are first person, signal, nobody else has touched it before so the first person would be hard. once it starts breaking down, i'm predicting a slew of people that are going to run on to the buffet. >> john: that is what happened. for five minutes nobody touched it. i was worried that i wasted all this money on this experiment for nothing. then others did take. i confronted some of them about it. most were embarrassed. >> this is for the sfm society. you can keep it. >> many freeloaders were not ashamed at all.

are you embarrassed? >> no. >> you are coming in for five shrimp here. >> so i ate a couple of them. >> john: teachers are not paid enough. so this is the kind of rationale that people use? >> yes. insurance company cheated us at some point in the past, there is no other real way. they talk of stories of the moment. >> john: this group, you tested yourself at carnegie? >> we take a sheet of paper, we take math problems we don't give people enough time, solve as many as you can in five minutes and i'll pay you for your performance. you solve as many as you can. at the end of five minutes i say stop, count how many questions you got correctly, now go back to the room and shred the piece of paper. i say come back and tell me how

many you got correctly. >> john: totally an honor system? >> and you destroy the evidence. people report an average of six problems. what people don't know in the experiment we play with the shredder it shreds of the sides of the page so the average we find that people solve four and they say six. now to test a group effect we added two components. the first thing we hired an actor, raise your hand. i solved everything. if you were in the experiment you are on only problem one, you know that nobody solved anything. we gave people money up front and they paid themselves in an envelope. the moment he raised his hand. you solved everything, take the envelope and go home.

now you see someone cheat in an egregious way. they copy him. one way they say we proved you can cheat and get away with it. in this demonstration you told people that people liked it from the same social group of cheating. so which one of those. it was tested in a few ways but one of them we changed the outfits of the students. the students were wearing a different outfit. in the second university he was wearing a different sweatshirt. >> john: now a different school, not one of us. >> what happens when out group cheats. cheating is involved but we don't like people we don't like so much i'm not going to do it. >> john: what else can we increase honesty? >> we found a lovely thing. we asked a group of 500 students

to record the ten commandments. sadly none of them could call the ten commandments. they thought about it. when you give them a chance to cheat in the same way, nobody did. the moment people thought about the ten commandments they stopped cheating even if we take self-declared atheists. they stop cheating. >> thinking about morality and honesty made more people honest. >> it gets you to be more restrictive in your own investigation of your own morality and more vigilant about i had and we behave better. i think we should do it more often. >> john: what you think you know that isn't so. [ male announcer ] research suggests the health of our cells plays a key role throughout our entire lives. ♪

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>>. >> john: it's forest fire season fires are raging out west destroying homes. who leads the fight against the fires? the u.s. forest service. they spend billions on fires, spraying chemicals right near the fire, fire retardants that is supposed to slow its spread. that is what the forest service does. i would think they would use the right flame retardant but do they? how often does governmental adopt the latest techniques for anything? how often does government change at all? not often. so i'm not surprised that peter says he has a better flame retard achbt one that now used by more than 200 fire departments but not the forest service. ed used to work for the forest service but now he works for peter. you make soil enhanceers.

>> all life saving products we develop. we don't make luxuries. we saw the need for it. we're the only product that works efficiently today. >> john: how did you discover this? >> ten years ago i was fooling around and i stuck my hand in it and that is how i came about. >> john: so itself cooled. >> i put it on ice cream stick and tried to light it. we started showing it to fire departments. different people that had the knowledge. you may have found something that is unbelievable. >> john: fire departments have embraced it enthusiastically and some government agencies. >> it's very unique. you can use it direct impingement and cool a fire down. you can create a fire break. it could be used for numerous other fires. >> you worked for the forest service, this is better.

i say this you brought some. this is the goopy stuff, if this is better why wouldn't they use it? >> they are stuck in the mold of using one product that they have used for about 50 years. for one reason they are slow to adapt to a product that is just obviously the better product. >> john: this is half the price. it's lighter which is big issue with the planes they fly overhead. here is what they say. they don't want to use this stuff, it might evaporate by the time the fire gets there? >> this kind of like trying to spray paint a lawn chair in the wind from ten feet away the way we're using the chemical now. >> john: they say most wildfires

are suppressed by indirect attacks for it to be safe? >> well, a forest fire isn't like an avalanche or a tsunami. it doesn't just move across the landscape. it consumes fuel in front of it and it needs fuel available to it in order to propagate itself. unfortunately what happens is the fire will propagate itself by spotting out in front of itself and this being able to work behind the fire and work on the heat is something that has always been done and done by every other country in the world. >> in new mexico we put five big fires out. >> john: u.s. forest service but stated governments are using it. >> they are using it it's the way to go. take a look what is going on around us. we are losing homes and this product will protect those homes. >> john: you say this is so good

that if i stick my hand in this thing, i could stick it in fire and i won't be burned? >> absolutely. people are trapped all the time in fires, this is one product you can coat them with to give the team minutes to get you out. >> john: so he says, i won't be hurt if i stick my hand in fire. my hand won't catch fire. let's try it! fox won't let me try inside the studio. they don't trust me that i would burn the place down. so we have to go outside. let's go. maybe i'll stick my hand in the fire after i coat myself with this, let's run the at the times. we'll see if he is telling the truth.

>>. >> john: we're back outside my studio. peter claims that his fire retardant, u.s. forest service won't use is so good when it's on my skin i can stick my hand in here and i won't be hurt? >> correct. >> john: so what do i do. i dip my hand? >> yeah. >> scoop it out make your fingers tight together. >> my hand is not catching fire. creepy, but you have a superior product but the u.s. forest service doesn't use it. >> you would think they would use the best products to fight fires but what you think you know is often not so. i have learned that repeatedly in my 40 years reporting. i found what i thought i knew

isn't true. and for years the experts said we are running out of oil but no we're not. people told me premium gas is better for your car. that makes sense because it costs more but it's not better. you are wasting your money unless you have a very unusual car. everyone knows cousins can't legally get married. cousins can legally marry in half of the states. women are bad drivers but where is the evidence? we men pay higher insurance rates because we are much more likely to crash. one more myth. do we have a full moon tonight? no, because police and hospital workers say when the moon is full there is more crime. something about the full moon makes people crazy but scientists looked at the data. that is totally false, too. the cops think it's true when there is lots happening and full

moon, they remember the connection. when there is no full moon you don't remember. there are so many myths and stupid things that people believe. i wrote a book about them. most dangerous one is when we have problems, solutions most likely come from government. it's intuitive to think the wise people in stated capitols know more than we but it's not true. that is why i wrote my new book, no, they can't. because we free people pursuing our own interests are for far month likely to solve problems. government fails but individuals succeed. individuals like peter, individuals create prosperity. it's the politicians and bureaucrats that will just, if they will just get out of the way. thanks for not setting me on fire. thanks for watching and good night. why not make lunch more than just lunch?

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governor mitt romney touching down in israel. here are some new images of him arriving in tel aviv. he is visiting the key u.s. ally a place that obama has yet to visit since coming to the white house. i'm healther childers. >> i'm kelly wright. he is spending 36 hours in israel. including prime minister benjamin netanyahu. ahead of his trip he signed a bill reaffirming the united states commitment to israel and the administration announced additional defense funding for the jewish state. molly henneberg is live in washington, d.c. where she has been following all this. critics say the actions were timed to upstage governor's

romney's visit. >> the white house says no to that. governor romney says he will not criticize president obama directly while he is overseas but romney has spoken previously while in the u.s. of obama's administration shabby treatment of israel. the israeli people deserve better than what they received from the leader of the free world. he is romney on the plane to israel today. israel is fearful of a nuclear attack by iran and governor romney will make the case he would be tougher with iran than president obama. he said in an interview with an israeli paper, quote, in a time of turmoil and peril, it's important that the security of america's commitments to israel will be as clear as possible. when israel feels less secure in the neighborhood it should feel more secure in the commitment to the u.s. they have had