for you. >> sean: welcome to this special edition of hafnlt dick cheney has been out of washington nearly four years, aside from a brief book tour, he has remained out of the spotlight. tonight, we went to wyoming to go inside his world as a private citizen and get his take on the political situation. vice-president cheney takes us on a fishing trip on wyoming snake river and introduces us to an amazing organization that is helping injured solders -- soldiers re-enter society. when we last saw mr. cheney, a year ago, he was recovering from a heart transplant and he was being kept alive by a plug-in battery pack.

mr. vice-president, great to see you again. >> thanks for coming to wyoming, sean. >> sean: this is going to be a great day. >> typical wyoming day in the summertime. >> sean: it's a little different in new york. hey, since i have seen you last, have you had this heart transplant, you have been through a lot. how hard has that been? >> well, hard... i am here. it's... it's really a miracle. it's a tremendous gift that somebody gave, obviously, in terms of -- their willingness to donate, the family's willingness to donate a heart. and when you have the advantage of going frommen-stage heart failure, to where you are really about to hang it up because your heart's not working to service all of your vital organs, to all of a sudden, you have a new heart and the expectation that you may live another 15 or 20 years, it's a miracle. it's a tremendous gift. yeah, there is some rocky momes

along the way. but you always have to think about what the alternative was. it is a lot better than the alternative. >> sean: last time i saw you, you had your pack with you, you would pull it out and the alarm would go off and scare everybody around you. one thing you said to me. huyour first heart attack at 37, very young man. but technology has kept up with your life. >> exactly. yes. i have gone from the mid 70s, six heart attacks. and i had venticular fibrillation, when your heart stops beating. i was kept alive by an implanted set of paddles, in effect. i had the pump, i had the bypass. i had stents. aneurisms in both knees repaired with stents. the technology was always there when i needed it. something new in '78 when i

started down that road. and treatment was like what eisenhower got 20 years before, there wasn't much they could do, they could wait and deal with the aftermath. of course, all of that has changed dramatically. you can have a heart attack, get him to the hospital, put a stint in and in a day or two, they are home. >> sean: i don't know that anybody has asked this yet. you are on a waiting list. you know you are on a waiting list. you weren't vocal. but you were on for a pretty long time, as i understand it. you get that call? >> i went on the waiting list at the same time they implanted the pumps back in july of 2010. and i was on the waiting list a total of 20 months. there is a very elaborate protocol who decide who is get it is what, when, when you go through the process. i can't begin to understand all the intricacies, but the pump aloud me to have another 20 months and in effect survive to get a transplant. we got a phone call, midnight on

a friday night. lynn answered the phone. we were getting ready to go to bed. it was the doc saying, we have a new heart for you. so at that point, we had been anticipating this moment for sometime and having to adjust your schedule and so forth to be able to get to the hospital relatively in short order. but we went in and that morning, they operated. and removed the old, diseased heart and put the transplant in. >> sean: as you are going through that, though, you know it's a risky operation. >> uh-huh. >> sean: you are driving to the hospital, hu-- you know how much you love your wife, your family, that's tough -- or did you feel confident? >> you feel confident. i sort of addressed the issue of my mortality in my 30s when i had that first heart attack. i had to consider, can i have a normal career, can i do a campaign approximate run for office? i was in the middle of my first campaign.

i remember asking my doctor if i will have to give up my hope for a political career. he said, hard work never killed anybody. that turned out to be very good medical advice, but also very good advice about living your life, go out and get with it. the trouble arises when you are doing something you don't enjoy doing. >> sean: those years in the white house, obviously very stressful. you are the vice-president, very tough times, 9/11, fight it would go wars. did you feel that things were getting worse over time? >> no, i was aware, you know, generally of the course of my heart disease would follow over time. we had consulted all the docs before i took the job as vice-president. it was their judgment and coolie from texas who, advised president bush, my cardiologist, and their basic judgment was that i was fit to campaign and fit to serve. and they were right. it was close. because i had my sixth heart attack shortly after the 2000

election. it wasn't a serious one. but if it had happened three or four weeks before, it might have been an issue in the campaign, and it wasn't. the fact is that i -- i had already -- by the time i got to the place where i am actively awaiting a transplant, you know, it's a ray of hope. it's the possibility of extending your life expectancy by maybe many, many years. it is not frightening or scary, it is exciting that you are going to have this opportunity. >> sean: coming up, the former v.p. opens up about our current president and takes us inside the vice-presidential selection process. plus, we hit the water as he takes me inside one of his favorite hobbies, fly fishing. and he will introduce us to a group that uses fishing to heal wounded soldier, both physically and mentally. caltrate's double the d. it now has more than any other brand to help maximize calcium absorption. so caltrate women can move the world.

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>> sean: we continue with my exclusive interview with former vice-president dick cheney. you were a big part of the decision-making process for... candidate bush, then president bush, for v.p. >> uh-huh. >> sean: interesting story. you told us once before how you and karl rove went before then governor bush and both explained why you shouldn't be the choice. >> exactly. >> sean: and i think it's one of the best stories i think i have heard in politics. >> well, i had been approached. he sent an emissary to see me early on in 2000, in the primary time, to see if i had any

interest in being considered and i said, absolutely not. i like my job. vice-president is a lousy job. there are a lot of political arguments against it. so they went away. then he asked me to run the search. i said i can do that, it's a part-time kind of effort. we got through with the search and he said, you are the solution to my problem. my sense of it is that he never gave up, that i was always his first choice and when i said no, he said, well, i will keep him busy and get him involved and see what he beings a couple of months down the road. >> sean: pretty persistent. >> very persistent. he had given it a lot of thought. he spent a lotted of time on the important issues and often didn't convey that impression, but all the political advice he was getting, cheney, electoral vote, been in the oil business, heart disease, lay all of that out. and karl and i went down and this was one of the conditions, i said to the -- then governor, i said, i want the chance to

come down and tell you all the reasons why it's a bad idea. >> sean: because you thought he was close to asking -- >> he said at that point, you are the solution to my problem. i said, well, i would look at it. but part of looking at it, you have to vet the veter and know all the negatives on me. karl had come to the same conclusion, based on his own political wisdom and judgment. we sat there together and told george bush, you know, you are making a bad decision. he said, i'll think about it. two days later, he called, he said, you're my guy. >> sean: karl rove sat there in front of and you governor bush and gave all the reasons why, dick cheney, should not be selected to be the vice-president. >> he and i were in total agreement. >> sean: what were his reasons? >> basically, that i was from a small state. i had been actively involved in the oil business, that there was always the possibility of health issues and so forth, that he could do better than chain

neterms of finding somebody who would help with another wing of the party. i had a very conservative voting record in the house. there were bound to be points at which the democrats would attack me. and there were other options. we looked at everybody in the party, as you always do. >> sean: when you talk about barack obama, almost every speech is class warfare, tax cuts for the rich, et cetera, attacks on bain capital -- can that be successful politically? >> i hope not. what they never mention is the farkt that we have the most progressive tax system in the world, roughly 50% of the wailing earners don't pay any income tax. that the top 5% pay 50% of all the income tax. it's extraordinarily progressive. >> sean: top 10% pay 75. >> it's as though he doesn't know that or want to admit it. so to say we have to demand a fair share from the folks at the upper-income levels, it is a

fair share. it's 70 or 75% for the top 10%, what does he want? 90%? what does that do to the economy? 2010, we came out of that election, he made the statements that a tax increase is the wrong thing to do because the economy's in recession. here we are, two years later, exactly the same conditions, nothing's changed. the economy's very precarious and he is for a tax increase. he is totally inconsistent, partly because i think he is trying to the one hand to maintain certain image, you know, strong on national defense, doesn't want to admit what he really believes about national defense. when he is on the teleprompter, he is putting out the party line. when hoe is off the teleprompter, he makes goofy statements. >> sean: he went back to it. >> he was making mistakes and saying what he really thought. >> sean: let me ask one

follow-up on this, in terms of political strategy and tactics and your experience, having gone through a lot of campaigns in your life. it's gotten really personal, his surrogates have claimed he's a racist, harry reid insinuated that his father would be embarrassed by him. that he might be a felon... you know, that he -- these are statements about governor romney, cayman islands, an insinuation of criminal activity. how would you advise governor romney, when you are under attack, that way, that personally, how best to handle it? >> well, i think the... i think it's outrageous, the chars that they have made by the obama crew. i think that the right thing for governor romney to do is to continue to lay out his program for what he wants to do for americans. i think part of that is for him

toto have surrogates that tell the truth about barack obama, about where he came from, what he stands for, what he believes, why he's done what he has done, point out the fact that he has been a disaster from an economic standpoint? >> coming up, more with vice-president cheney, including what he says is the one issue that president obama refuses to address. later, he brings me out on the snake river with wounded warriors to learn about the healing power of fishing and camping, straight ahead.

>> sean: here's more of my interview with former vice-president dick cheney. >> you did say about governor romney that you felt he was somebody who could lead through an unanticipated crisis like 9/11. oftentimes, we focus on one issue in the campaign, this campaign is obviously very focused on the economy, rightly so. but the next president, you never know -- his biggest challenge may be a national security issue. that's what happened in your administration? >> it's almost a law that every administration or nearly every administration sooner or later will face a crisis they never anticipated, where they will have to deal with a situation that has developed sometimes, they got themselves fixed. but i can remember in the ford years, we were trying to deal with the aftermath of watergate, probably the worst

constitutional crisis since the civil war. jerry ford never expected that -- hell, he never expected to be president. every administration, sooner or later is faced with a major challenge like that. in our case, it was 9/11 and the aftermath. and i think, you look at what barack obama's done. and he has walked away from it, refused to deal with thins, like, for example, the debt crisis. it's right there in front of everybody to see, to look at. i never hear thim talk effectively about what will happen if we don't address that issue. and i never see him seem to be serious about that issue? you say, he's trying to pretend that we are not at war. noose a pretty serious charge. >> before 9/11, we looked at terror attacks as a law enforcement problem. what we learned on 9/11, 3,000 dead americans is an act of war. and what you begin to recognize that it is an act of war, then you can bring to bear on it, the

resources of the united states that wouldn't otherwise be applied, it's a law enforcement problem. bring the not bear on it, your intelligence capabilities and so forth. that's why it's important to have a firm understanding of the word war. clearly, i think with respect to the 9/11-type potential attacks, we are at war. >> sean: yeah. let me ask you about what i view as the rise of radical islamists. we see this now happening. they got it totally wrong on egypt. then the president there -- you know, here's a guy, muslim brotherhood, in the white house. in july, another militant group leader invite to the white house,ianet napolitano said others will follow. the muslim brotherhood organization -- is it a terrorist organization? >> it certainly has spawned a lot of terrorism. if you look at the spawning

ground for that kind of radical view of islam that has been the intellectual foundation for groups like al qaeda. so i think it's a very serious propitition. a lot of -- proposition. a lot of people talk about the arab spring. i don't think we will be that happy with the arab spring if what emerges is a series of nations across the middle-east that you are now governed by the muslim brothers-- it's already happened. >> well, you look at what is happening on the various nations and egypt. >> sean: the israelis are vampires and killers, the muslim brotherhood in parliament said, prepare for war with israel. he said the koran is our -- koran is our constitution, shirria is our -- sharia is our

guide. he said of the bush administration, the world's leader. we are giving $1.5 million to the muslim brotherhood that now leads egypt. is that a mistake. >> i would want to qualify your statement about the $1.5 billion. an awful lot goes to the egyptian military. i think eye know the -- [inaudible], i worked with him closely in the gulf war in desert storm. to the extent there has been significant u.s. assistance over the years, a lot of it has been to and through the egyptian military. i would keep that in mind. i think the egyptian military is the one force, politically capable of operating in egypt today and counter-balance, if you will, to the muslim brotherhood. so i would not imagine they would pull the plug on that assistance. >> sean: up next, we take things

outdoors, as i join vice-president cheney on a fishing trip with wounded warriors and their healing. definitely

>> welcome back to this special edition of hafnlt thousands of men and women are returning home from war with injuries. some are physical wounds that you can see, but some, like post traumatic stress disorder,or ptsd, are invisible n. wyoming, i joined vice-president dick cheney, as we went fly fishing about a remarkable group that provides rehabilitation for vets with both kinds of injury. it is called rivers of recovery. let's take a look at the great work they do every day. >> rivers of recovery is the outdoor-based recreational therapy program. it uses outdoor activities, such

as fly fishing, camping and running rivers, combined with a medically designed curriculum to help combat veterans heal from psychological and physical injuries. >> four-day fly-fishing trip, we doioc abreathing exercises, relaxation techniques so if you are having an anxiety atook or a flashback, have you different ways to cope with it. >> they are bringing injured soldiers or guy who is have suffered from ptsz and they bring them out here. >> i fished with rivers of recovery before. it's a great program. justin, i am fishing with today, he has artificial legs, both legs. he's on full, qualified, certified guy on the snake river. he can do it all. >> the sergeant in the marine corps. i was in afghanistan. on my third tour, ended up... stepping on a flesh plate i.e.d.

tblew off both my legs and messed up my right arm pretty good. >> i saw justin, june 23, 2008, the day he lost both of his legs. the memory stuck in my head was of him laying on the ground with no legs... being able to see him again kind of starts a new chapter, you know? new memories, good memory, instead of, you know, warfare and bloodshed. >> 8 weeks after i got hurt, i was here on the rivers of recovery trip, fly-fishing was a whole new thing for me. that's the first time i went. i became addicted. last year, made it a full-time position. like i said, addicted. i was part of the invasion force in iraq. i was injured in 2003. i had a left shoulder replacement and 2008, i have been diagnosed with post traumatic stress. i was on a cocktail of

anti-depress ans and pain meds for my shoulder. at one point, i weighed 230 pounds. i had never fly fished before. i came to the program -- it was a life changer for me. i am no long or any meds at all. you know, i have lost a ton of weight. what differient eights rivers of recovery is the idea that we use the outdoors and the activities that build a sense of confidence and self-empowerment, it's the perfect platform to bring in these techniques that help them manage and mitigate anxiety and depression. >> there are all types of wounds. we have ptsd, we have tbi, we have the amputeees, anything can happen when you are over there. anything. >> while on active duty, i had hearing loss from a head injury. i have been diagnosed with ptsd and epilepsy. >> i am so calm.

oc that water, fishing, you get to be very, very calm. >> it's really built a lot of confidence in those areas that the united states army and my unit have really been working to recuperate from. and that let me prove it to myself in gaining confidence. >> going to change me for the better. make me be less stressed. >>is coming back from tours in iscprak afghanistan, you -- iraq and afghanistan, the things that happened out there, it's on your mind a lot. makes me short tempered, not a nice person. i have been through a lot of different types of counseling, depression, anxiety... i even got into alcohol. >> up to the moment when i got on the plane, i was like, i don't want to g. i don't. but i hear about the experiences that these soldiers have when they come back, and i am like, i want to be that person. have that story. packed up, got a ride to the airport. came over.

and i took all of that negativity and just threw it out the window. >> coming out here like this, you know, it is calming. usually everybody's pretty awkward, the first night, they don't know each other. by lunch the next day, after everybody's catching fish, it is like they have been friends for 10 years. >> this guy is "john doe" to me, but after this weekend, you know, he might be my best friend. >> rivers of recovery is medically proven. >> it is all about healing. there is a very visible outdoor element, but mind the scenes, it is specifically designed curriculum. >> a lot of these guys come to us and they talk about how a couple of weeks prior, they were looking at weapons or pistols, you know, thinking about ending it all. and they come here and after the fourth day, they're emotional. you know, they have worked through some of their issues and they talk about going back and helping other guys. >> we are losing 18 kids every day to suicide. it's really turned into an

epidemic. we need do something about it. >> it gives you a whole different outlook, especially if you are sitting in a hospital room, you can't do anything. i got out here and realized i could still get outdoors and still do the things i used to do. >> we were getting feedback, such as this is the first time i have slept seven consecutive our hours after combat. this is the first time i don't feel my heart beating out of my chest. >> the key to the things like this is just to give, you know, these guys an outlet and to show them that, you know, there are other things, other than sitting around their room and boozing it up. >> just getting out, being myself, building confidence with people again. it felt really good. making relationships, being yourself, knowing, people could like you just for that. >> at first, i was looking at it in a whole negative way. now, i am like, i can't wait until the next thing to do. i love being here right now. i am glad i came.

>> this is one of the great ways that somebody can sort of re-enter society, find something fascinating they love to do, once you are hooked, you are hooked. >> it helps me focus on something other than the past, where bad things happened, you know? i look forward to a bright future full of good things. >> sean: rivers of recovery is a great organization, but they need your help to help more veterans. go to their web site, rivers of recovery to learn how you can help. coming up next, vice-president cheney and i head to the snake river to find out hear about the impact these guys are having and get some fishing in. later, the vice-president will tell me how fishing helped him cope with the stress when he was the v.p., more coming up on this special edition of "hannity." isn

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>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." before i went fishing with vice-president cheney, we both went on the rivers with the rivers of recovery crew. i wanted to see the amazing work they do. each of us was in a vote with one combat vet who was new fot program and a guide who had gone through this years ago. >> your story's amazing. >> my story? >> yeah. you got injured when you were in iraq. >> di. >> he was part of the invasion force in iraq. >> right. went through the program. came back in a couple of weeks and volunteered because i got so much out of it. >> sean: yeah. >> that's good. no less than that, ever. >> sean: no less than that? >> right. i mean out of the raw tip. there you go. a month after i went through the program, came back and volunteered, started

instructing, like fly tying and fly casting to other disabled vets. >> sean: right. >> taking them on fishing trips? >> if you had your way, would you do this permanently? >> absolutely. of course, i would. this is my office. you know? doesn't get any better than that. >> i agree with that. >> sean: i will switch offices. you agree with that? >> about the outdoors being the best office? absolutely. >> sean: makes you think about everything in life. >> that's why it's so awesome for guys with ptsd. once you are out here-- it givens you perspective. >> exactly. you can see why it's so therapeutic for the mind. >> sean: right. you were in iraq 2009. >> tent 09, 2010, we were ambushed, we returned fire. i had torn cartilage in my knee from the fall. >> sean: but when you fell, you thought you might have been shot? >> right. if i can come back with this

experience and share it with someone else who hasn't had the opportunity with ptsd, i mean, sometimes it just takes a little push to go ahead and get involved. >> sean: right. >> you know, i thank this guy, ed, for his service, number 1, and for doing what you are doing, returning... what you have been given a chance to do, you know? it's very, very good. >> sean: how rewarding does it feel to hear that? >> oh, it's awesome, man. it's awesome. you know, like, we have guys that come out that are... you know, haven't been out of their house in 3 years, you know? for some reason, something told them to come out here... you know, when they leave, they talk about how they are going to go home and take their wife out, you know? the key is just getting these guys outside, you know? >> i don't think people realize it's an epidemic. >> it is an epidimic. >> these guys come back, we have asked so much of them, they are

not getting the help they need. >> the good thing about this -- >> informal. >> the therapy is there and you don't even realize it. >> it's so much better i. the key is to talk about it, you know? the thing about ptsd, it is not visible. so-- isn't that what it is? some injuries are scpribl some aren't. and there isn't any difference, is there? >> no one wants to admit that they have a menial issue. no one does. i don't see how anyone can be expose to the things that we were exposed to and not come back with some sort of issue -- >> do you agree? does it make you feel less stronger? >> you know what? it used to. but i mean... now it doesn't. i feel like i'm stronger now because i admit t. you know? >> right, right. >> like, i have -- i have become to know myself. and, you know, what i have been through. >> how are you doing there,

mr. vice-president? >> first, call me, dick. i am talking to these guys. we are just talking about all that they go through, how hard it is... it is almost like we forget as a country that-- the depth of the sacrifice and then what they come back and they deal with the rest of their lives. you are meeting a lot of these guys. >> that's one of the reasons this is such a great program. it's always a privilege for me to get out and get a chance. it's a great program. i can't think of-- have you seen the change in these guys when they are out here? >> when i was vice-president, we used to have the guys down from betheseda, healing waters program, which is similar to rivers of recovery, come down and bring their gear down and spend an afternoon, with the captain, who organized it. you could have used some of those lessons. >> sean: thanks a lot.

it's true, though. i could. >> it's my favorite part of the whole world -- world. there is nothing better than you can do than spend the day with guys on the river with the fly. it's refreshing. i do it a couple of times eye week. >> sean: you get off, in your case, the merry-go-round of washington, d.c. >> the one thing i could do that was totally absorbing. whatever worries huabout the day-to-day stuff tgoes away. it doesn't bother you out here. >> sean: you think that's why this is soesquive? >> yeah. do you it well, have you to work at it and concentrate. learn the business. it's a great program. >> sean: you know, when i first went to walter reed and betheseda. we did all of these concerts, i think i told you. i walked out of there kind of embarrassed. it -- you think you have

problems in life. you -- i met this one guy in particular, i will never forget t. lost one leg. they were trying to grow bone, you know and he has rods this thick in all of his legs, holes in his legs, they are trying -- it ended up he lost that leg. but they were trying really hard to save it. you know, you think about the little things that bother you, annoy you, frustrate you, that you think are problems and it doesn't really compare, does it? >> that's right. >> sean: coming up next, the vice-president and i talk politics and foreign policy on the banks of the snake river. then we put politics aside and focus on some fishing. that is straight ahead. ncing the company's bottom line, their very first word was... [ to the tune of "lullaby and good night" ] ♪ af-lac ♪ aflac [ male announcer ] find out more at... [ duck ] aflac! [ male announcer ] ...forbusiness.com. [ yawning sound ]

>> sean: welcome back to "hannity." in just a minute, vice-president cheney will give me some fishing lessons. but first, we took time out to talk a little about about foreign policy. one of the things that the 9/11 commission report said is they were at war with us, we weren't at war with them. do you think they are still at war with us? do you think it's gotten worse? >> i think they are still at war with us. i think we have done a good job, we laid the groundwork, obviously, after 9/11, unfortunately. after 9/11, to put together an

interrogation program and surveillance program president is patriot act and all of those things that were vital to keeping us safe and the remaining 7 1/2 years of our administration, the system with respect to drones and arming the drones, that was something tapresident bush decided on, right after 9/11 and we put weapons on the platforms. that has worked very well. it's produced significant results. and the obama administration has used the dronesesquively. you have to give him credit for that. i am really worried because it makes a big difference, whether you think it's a law enforcement program with a guy who sets off a bomb in a public place, that's a law enforcement program. if it's an islamist crusade against the united states that kills 3,000 people one morning, it's a war. it affects how you think about the problem, what resources you bring to bear. the war requires a whole different level of force to deal with it. but if you don't recognize that

it's a war, the risk you run of getting hit again because you didn't do enough to prevent that attack, then the risk goes up. i worry now that the risk is going up. yeap say it's going to be an attack here tomorrow. but i worry very much that, you know, it's been 11 years, almost, since 9/11, people get complacented. they think it may want happen again. i worry the next time we get hit, we will be hit with far deadlier weapons. >> sean: you know what is amazing, i look at the -- i brought this up about the rise of radical islamists. you have known for your entire career, defense secretary, congress, vice-president for 8 years. you know many, many people, leaders in the middle-east, why do i have the sense that radical islam is far worse than what we think it is? somewhere between the arab

spring, a couple of polls that show most people in egypt wanted sharia law, most people want a religious government. that tells me that they buy into a more radical view. >> well, i think you have to be -- you have to distinguish, there are an awful lot of muslims in the world that are good folks that we deal with on a regular basis, have dealt with on a regular basis in the past. i work with a lot of folks in the middle-east, after 9/11, so we dealt with the issues that we were faced with in desert storm, 20 years ago. the first trip out there after the iraqis invaded kuwait, to get assistance from the saudis and the egypians and others and, boy, they really pitched in. we had a common cause, it was saddam hussein, it was a bloody dictator, who killed thousands of his own people with chemical weapons, started two wars and was trying to build nuclear

weapons. you know, there were an awful lot of people in that part of the world that signed on and worked with the united states and fought beside us. -- the duplicity of the saudis, jordannians. >> i think it's a lot more complicated than that. i think with saudi arabia, my personal view, the regime is viewed as legitimate by its people. it is not a dictatorship, the king abdella is a good man. i like him. videalt with him, and he has been a great friend and ally to the united states. i think you have to make careful judgments. >> sean: they have a very different system. women have more rights. >> they do have a different system. but, you know, they get their right to pick their way to live as much as anybody else does. you know, when you get into a dictatorship, obviously, something like moammar khadafy and libya, who by the time he got into trouble, he was in trouble with anybody, there wasn't anybody left in libya that supported him.

he had, at one poign, he had a contract on him in saudi arabia years ago. alternates a very complex part of the world. i don't look it it in the fashion that i can write everybody off as problems for us. i think there are some very, very fine people, a lot of good frens of the united states over the years. i do think that when you get into the area where you have somebody supporting terrorists, whether it's a religious group or a group dedicated to al qaeda and -- or it's a government that provides support for a terrorist organization, the base of operations for them, financial support, military support, then that government is our enemy and needs to be considered as such. it's one of the policies we have pursued that was controversial after 9/11. if you are a state that provides a safe harbor for terrorists, have you a problem with us. >> sean: it's time to put politics aside and just fly

fishing. it's a destressor for combat vets and if you happen to be the vice-president of the united states. >> sean: i was beginning to get the hang of it. >> it takes a little while. once you get star -- started-- i am sure you fine-tune it every time you are out. tell me... you know, because this is a passion -- >> yeah. it is for me. i got started when i was in high school, i did that trip to the middle fork on the river -- >> >> sean: just you and frens? >> three other guys, our junior year in high school. >> sean: right. >> we took the week before football season start in the fall, before practice. went up and camped up on the upper fork, upper part of the

powder river and just had a fantastic time. first time i fly fished. i had done a lot of worm fishing? >> one time and you were hooked. >> yeah. since then, i have been able to do ital over the world. i went to chili as secretary of defense, they assigned a couple of brigadier generals and took me to tiera del fuego and on the straits of megellan, fished a couple of days? >> when you were vice-president, how important was it to decompretionz a little bit? >> well, i did my fishing then, here in wyoming. >> sean: right. >> i used to go to british columbia every year for steelhead. and -- canada. but i did not do that while i was vice-president. partly because, you know, there were alternative uses for the gear, they wouldn't let me go

just sort of on the local economy. hito have military lift and i couldn't justify using a helicopter and a crew to take me up to somewhere in british columbia to fish. >> sean: right. >> so that crimped it, but i felt that was the way to deal with it. >> sean: did you ever get president bush to fish with you? >> we fished but on his bass pond in crawford. >> sean: was it easier? >> i wouldn't say that. we haven't fished there since we left office. but we fished -- he loved bass fishing. and that's when he had. we would sit in a boat, a small boat. i would fly -- use my fly rod and he would use bubba bait. bass plugs and so forth. he's a good fisherman. >> sean: that's all the time we have left. a verypecial thaipg thanks to vice-president cheney and everybody at rivers of recovery for such a great