neal cavuto is next. it is cheap unless it is our debt. i am neil cavuto. and 60,000 trillion is where our debt is headed. it is a number that the president's debt commission wants to cut . lawmakers want to cut the debt commission out of the debate. questions about the simpson-bowl plan would cheapen the debate. >> dagen and charlie . gary, to you first, do you get a sense from this, that democrats are leery about the issue? >> i get a sense that democrats realize they lost the midterm elections in a big day just because of the issue. if the deficits and the

spending get front and center, there could be heck to pay on the democratic side. numbers are out of the hand and obviously in the midterm, a lot of people cared about what we are saying temperature is not just what happened but the deficit will grow crazily. this needs to get front and center and the republicans should not allow them to put it off. by the way, charles. i wanted to thank you and dagen for filling n you obviously did well. >> my show didn't air. >> remember it is cavuto . >> remember to take a chill pill here. >> get the spray paint out. >> i saw that. >> i saw that. [laughing] >> i am looking at this and i can understand. i was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt. there is a lot of recommendation and in a time constricted presidential debate f. you go through them and if you like this it gets

time-consuming. is it really a matter. you talk about an elephant in the room. >> that's what i can do. is it is not pane. and let me tell you. this is a giant elephant in the room. >> who are you calling an elephant. >> charlie, have you seen the work out by the way? the elephant in the room and washington has a yellow streak. how many people in washington have come up with a plan on this thing? it was a great starting point. you don't have to agree with it. it is a launching point for two parties who are so afraid. only a hand full of people stand up and say we have to talk about it. >> would you talk about it? >> absolutely. simpson-bowles plan, mr. president your commission,

name one thing that you like? that you would get behind. democrats don't want to do it because it was his commission and he did not act on it and did not have what the democrats wanted and that is a value-add tax. >> i could turn it around. mitt romney, you have been waffling on the debt commission work. i could see both sides. we don't want the predictament. >> but mitt romney's running mate not running for president but run for example vice-president did not. >> did not support the plan. he was a member of the commission. >> paul ryan put out his own plan that was praised by the co-head of the commission. where are the people in washington that is have done something about this. paul ryan has and he's on the ticket. that's the problem that the democrats have. any time you nationalize the debate they will lose because of paul ryan, who is very effective at talking about big

national issues. >> julian, i don't think any presidential debate commission where it solves even though they may be inclined to be sympathetic would allow i think the commission issues are coming up and then what? >> i think it is setting up a false argument here. one or two democrats suggested this. most democrats would want to have the debate. why is that? the simpson-bowles commission came up with a plan for cutting spening and tax reform . president obama didn't support all of it but supported much of it. and during the debt ceiling negotiation last august of 2011. simpson-bowles report was a basis for where the president was in the discussion with john boehner. contrast that with paul ryan who voted against it and plan does not balance the budget. >> we got to remember here.

we have to remember. ryan's cost savingings. no one was cutting anything. you are talking about slowing the growth of the government 5.6 trillion in ryan's and 4. on this side. >> that is not correct. you are talking about 20 billion in spending cuts. >> no, no, no. we are talking. you are wrong here. i want to make this clear. we are talking over 10 years. we'll have more spending than we do now. i want to make that clear. >> what percentage of gdp. >> but you look at. that's how you look at these things as a percentage of gdp and that's how you figure out if you are increasing or decreasing the debt. taxes would go up and pending would go down. that's how you get deficit savingings. >> you don't believe that the president let the debt commission @ altar and

stranded bowls and simpson . >> no, i don't feel that. >> they feel that. >> i don't think simpson or bowles would say that. >> i talked them both. they feel that way. let me finish the point. the president indicated he would embrace most of that. it is when boehner walked away because craziys in the republican party wanted -- >> crazies in the republican party. all right. >> let me finish the point. the simpson bowl's report called for tax revenue increases . republicans said no way. when boehner walked away from that so did the white house. >> obama glea to bringing down all of the marginal rates? would he do that. that's how you make simpson bowles work and ryan plan. bring down the rates and plug the loop holes and president obama would never agree to anything that brought down

marginal tax rate. >> i will say this and there is enough blame to go around. both pears were skittish from the commission and divorcing themselves from it and by and large, the feel thag the work would be in a nice leather binder gathering dust in the end. >> it was all about midterm election. people upset with both parties. the incumbents were in trouble and should still be in trouble. the president controls everything. he had the world at his finger tips f. he embraced it it would be on the way to being long. >> that is so long. >> it is laughable to blame john boehner that we didn't get tax reform. that was going to happen? getting rid of the deductions and lowering marginal tax rates. >> here are the problems for president and democrats right now. two years they were unfettered to do whatever they wanted do .

before the president came in, he said he was going to do something about the deficits. quotes all over tv and youtube about going line by line and not treating taxpayer dollars like monopoly money. he went the other way. he will have to argue that back and there is no way to argue that. during the debt ceiling negotiation when it came to the head. president put on the table medicare and social security safings. and the speaker of the house would not go anywhere when it came to revenues. >> you cannot spend 1.3 trillion in debt. (talking all at once.) i want you all to stop. you give me a headache and affect my appetite. we don't want to go there. when we come back. did any of you see this? >> for me the intangibles and the teammate and leadership

and toughness, and consistency with all thav, that's what separates him. >> you know, you got a guy out there that is going to give you a chance to win. yeah. you know high fives were not for baseball's perfect game. they were for me. and our upcoming coverage of the presidential conventions . we'll be kicking it off on monday august twenth in the republican national convention 4:00 p.m. on fox news channel and back on 8:00 p.m. on box fox business it is okay to dvr when you watch us on fox business. up next, your world front and center. remember this. >> we all know the gas tolls. you say they are going to put y'all back in chains which means, i am okay and not going to happen to me.

>> that's interesting. >> we'll work through it. but y'all will be in chains. slavery is nothing to joke about. >> when former democratic virginia governor wilder said that about joe, it was not only bad for joe, but bad for joe's boss. why what happened this week was a wake-up call for the oval to start behaving and acting like the corner office after this. has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through.

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>> i am jamie colby. out on the campaign trail congressman paul ryan hitting the critical swing state of the florida with side kick mom. he talked about medicare in the villages retirement community and mitt romney is fund raising in massachusetts and president obama landed in new hampshire where he is expected to boost his own medicare plan and talk about it and blasting paul ryan.

and alarming new data on the job market. did you catch the numbers on friday. unemployment numbers rising in july including key states. nevada posting the highest un. the rate at 12 percent. rhode island trailing behind. i will send you back to cavuto on business. latest headlines on fox news.com. >> i am glad you are not here during the break. anyway, it started with this. >> mitt romney wants, he said in the first hundred days he will let the big banks write their own rules. unchain wall street. they are going to put y'all back in chains . then joe biden's comment blew up after former virginia governor wilder told me this

on fox. >> first of all it is divisive and certainly uncalled for. >> charles payne out of control? >> out of control and something needs to be done. >> if you were the president would you have fired him? >> as a boss i am bad at firing people. things have to build up. you don't like to have to fire people. but the person can't be a bigot and the is the united states of america and you can't be a liability and at this point, joe biden is both. >> anything else. business or military he would robbery gone. >> you covered corcherate america better than anyone. if you are a ceo and your executive of bp and cfo is stumping their mouth off you reign them in, don't you. >> what he said was absurd and despicable. if you are the ceo. is what he doing affective and

i think it is affective. it is a base election. you get out the base and get your people to the polls. africa-american are a part of the democratic base . i didn't see those people booing him. >> they had a big loud boo. >> there was a skirmish reaction. >> they were booing wall street. >> dagen? >> that was a loud boo from governor doug wilder. democratic and former of the state . spoke in my college commencement. >> are you from the south? >> i am. i will say it speaks volumes about president obama not managing joe biden. he iso gaffe-prone and funny by accident. but this, he should have been reigned in a long time ago. >> the issue comes up again and again . whether it was intentional or not. it is okay it rallies the base

but ticks off everybody else. would you fire him? >> i don't know if i would fire him. it was an unfortunate use of language. but the president's adversaries are trying to make a tempest in a teapot. it was a metaphor and not literally. >> when the president and biden met on friday, do you came up in the meeting. >> i would say chill out a bit, joe. you can't raise the issue and not the other side. the leaders of the other side referring to the president as foot stamp president and questioning his legitimacy. and racial overtones. >> you know, what. -- i am not interested in that. think of the oval office run like any other corner office. >> that is a bad question, neil. >> cavuto on business.

that is a very, very, i am asking you here, is whether this has done business pr harm to the president having someone who appears to some, but not all by any means. but as some as a crazy guy. >> it gets him off message. that is the bigger problem. biden, some of the thingings he said he is a f-- defus. >> i think he'scracy but not defus. >> you don't fire him. you sit him down and say you got to start thinking before you speaking. or our numbers are going to go down and we'll end up in the election. i think he did the right thing to put him in his place. >> look who came out against biden so far with doug wilder? you know, this is not cause a

major ground swell from the naacp. >> no. i think he's crazy like a fox. >> you might be right. you might be right. you can't say crazy stuff. you are going to be gone like a tv anchor. take a chill pill . apparently you can have your cake and eat it if you are paying with foot stamps. >> one bakery owner said the taxpayers shouldn't pay the bill for someone else's sweet treats. up next. these guys just found out we are losing more money from that general motor's bailout. [ male announcer ] at scottrade,

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>> coming up. became bail bummer. the government saying the taxpayers are losing more money in the bailout in the auto industry. try about 3 billion dollars more.

>> i take nothing away from the good hard working autoworkers but the taxpayers who have to fund could be a dying industry. >> that was then and sadly for taxpayers it is now. the administration admitting it will lose three billion from the autobailout and topping 25 billion bucks. what do you think? >> it is not just 25 billion. that's only eight days of our debt. ipo that they came out with in november 2010 is down 35 percent since that day and the market up 20 percent which is

a 55 percent difference. the shareholders got skewed on that and the bond holders got screwed. >> i agree thousand percent. unfunded liability . losing market share, we should be afraid of. they are losing market share. sell it and take out and the government will not own it. >> bailouts never work. wall street was able to pay it back because the feds kept interest rates zero. >> julian what do you think? >> treasury department said taxpayers will make money on the tarp bailout and some on autobut lose 25 percent. if we let them go under we could have lost a million jobs. >> they were never going under. >> managed bankruptcy would not have worked. >> it is what it is. we got to come up with more mon yethat is easier said than done .

so charles, the issue is now how long would it take to recoup it? >> i am worried they are going to reshuffle management and something is wrong with general motors. people are not buying their cars it is in trouble. and you know, we are going to have to bail them out again. >> i like gm and buy their cars and i don't want the government owning it. not even a quarter television. get out of it >> gary, is it an assumption it will be done and under water or is that the reality? >> it is a reality. we are losing money on so many things and it is just a foot note now. >> i want to thank you all. meanwhile thank to charlie and dagen and julian. investors have not taken much risk. our gain has low risk plays. bye. especially in this economy. but with three kids, being home more really helped.

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>> i will be the first to

admit it is not low, low risk . i love it and moving in women's aparand he will footwear. stock is on fire and i think it will continue. >> what do you think. >> i love to disagree but i love the company. earnings are big going forward. i am with you. >> both if agreement. what about you, gary. >> union pacific. i don't usually talk about transport stockings but this is the strongest in the transport and they beat earnings and revenue. and stock hit new high ground and will continue for the next few months. >> turn about is fair play. i like kansas city southern. and that is a good one also. >> aren't they indictative barometer for the economy picking up steam or no? >> it helps. when you see transport. trapts are lag that is because of higher oil prices. rails means things are move thats