well. >> alisyn: all of our twitter addresses. >> alisyn: alisyn camerota... >> dave: dave briggs, 000. >> and clayton morris, the most important one. >> dave: see ya. >> 17 days out from the big election and big news from 7 swing states, the unemployment rate, falling, and the guys pounding the campaign trail and those swing states, take a page out of the play book, these guys, find out how to get jobs swinging back in the right direction, hi, i'm brenda buttner and this is bulls and bears. here they are, the bulls and bears, we have got tobin smith, jonas max ferris, and, gary kontbalm, gary, what are those guys doing right. >> helping and letting businesses flourish. i'm in florida, a billion dollar tax cut to business over three

years, great economic development agency that helps business like other states than california, which raises taxes and takes money out of the economy and puts it into the government's hands, which is huge for a state like that and florida is getting its act in gear. >> what do the candidates have to learn from these governors? neither one of them has exactly the same policies. >> the first thing we can learn is five out of the 7 governors in the swing states are republicans. so, a lot of the macro republican policies seem to be working at the state level, and, rick talked about florida but look at wisconsin, scott had to go up against the recall to get collective bargaining with the unions, and, john kasich, the same in ohio and, he has gone out and had about 18 tax cut plans, he's straightened out the tax code in ohio and these are the types of things either presidential candidate needs to implement, going forward. to start creating jobs again. >> susan, john makes a good

point, fighting unions and collective bargaining, going up against regulations. those are all things that seem to be working on the state level. should the candidates be looking at this? >> you know, on the regulatory front i do agree with john but, the notion that tax rates are the panacea and the policy magic wand is completely false. if you look at iowa, for instance they had a 1% -- highest corporate tax rate of any state in the country and the lowest unemployment rates, 5. % and nevada almost the lowest tax burden on a personal and corporate level, almost the highest unemployment rate. tax rates are not the panacea, the governor romney and a lot of republicans pretend they are, but i think the business climate is an important issue and takes into account things like investment, in infrastructure, skilled labor force, as well as regularly burdens. >> toby? >> well, susan, iowa has a lot of farmland and they are doing okay. you can be geographically correct but let's talk about

regulatory. because both in iowa, colorado, for instance, i know many companies that have left california for colorado, specifically because their cost of doing business was more than 20% lower and they voted with their feet. i think the regulatory one is the sleeper one. we have added something like 32,000, pages of additional regulations at the federal level, at the state level, colorado got rid of a thousand, i think that is the right direction. >> gentlemen, should the governors get the credit for what is going right in some of these states? a lot of this is coming from the federal government. handouts. >> they shouldn't get the credit, good or bad. look at the margins, a lot of the things the panels are talking about are true, nice to have an owner-friendly business environment, and lower taxes but there is something much bigger going on and you can tell, nevada and florida have no knack tax and are the worst states in the country for labor markets at this point. and if you go to zillow and

start home prices in every state against the unemployment rate you'll see why some states are in the crapper and some aren't. because they never had a housing bubble in texas or wisconsin. they had one in nevada and florida and it destroyed the economy. don't let bubbles build like that in the economy, at the least build up resources, so when it pops you aren't broke like a lot of the states. but that is the driver in the economy... you just made a point i wanted to make, in florida, and nevada they had another issue, the housing bubble, that is -- and, it is these policies that governors are coming out with, lower taxes, less regulations, and let businesses flourish and guess what? it is businesses who do the hiring, and, the permanent hiring. not the tax burden government, governments, are hiring, from taxpayer dollars, right now, things are getting much much better and if housing gets better you will see florida flourish like you afternoon in

years, the expectation here. >> susan, john made another good point about the fact that the majority in these swing states are republican governors, what does it tell you? >> you know what? 41 states had lower rates of unemployment this month. it is not just about the swing states and i would contest jonas's point, look at my beloved home state of new jersey, governor christie saw unemployment rising under his tenure, 9.8%, now, 2%, over the national average, that was not because of the housing bubble, because of bad policies, he's not trying to help the middle class and shut down infrastructure investment and is going after teachers and education and you see the results. >> you can make the argument -- to counter the point, new jersey and new york have almost identical unemployment rates because it is the same labor market and region and, you have totally diametrically opposed governors and, you have new york, and, the new jersey governor and they can't get the

unemployment rate to stop moving, because ultimately they work in financial services which... >> the president can't do anything about micro segments of the economy. he needs to do stuff about the big stuff and at the big level we know marginal rates of the corporations make a difference and states where they've gone after these massive union systems, and open labor, we can do that at the federal level, it doesn't matter whether you work in finance or not. jonas, madison, wisconsin versus michigan. >> the difference is, states balance their budgets and the federal government doesn't and the presidential candidates don't... >> and to susan's earlier point, lest we not forget governor christie inherited tremendous budget deficits. >> he has been in for three years, come on, so has obama. >> and cut jobs, even in the public sector which many of the other state governors haven't had the nerve to do. >> if president obama owns the

economy, governor christie does, too. come on. >> okay. looking at a national level, taking these policies, what could the presidential candidates learn from? from these states that have lowered their unemployment rates? >> well, first off, there are two things, the word "certainty." there is so much uncertainty in the system, i speak to so many small businesses, as well as big businesses, they don't know where the heck they'll be next year. put serpent back into the system as far as tax policies, regulatory policy and just letting business know they are behind them, the thought process, that business owners have, that we're okay again and not have all the roadblocks, let employment flourish and you see unemployment come down and the big thing nationally that kept employment up for the last three years and not where it should be like five or six percent is that one word, no one knows where we'll be next year on tax policy

and regulatory policy and if there is certainty in the system i promise unemployment will come down. >> we haven't talked ohio and the policies on their energy dripping and opening up both public and private lands, again, macro level, big level, 4 million jobs, romney is -- probably 10 million jobs from energy policy done right. >> our own neil cavuto heading to one of those swing states on monday for the final presidential debate in boca raton, florida, be sure and be there, at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on fox news, neil will be joined by senator john mccain, florida governor rick scott, former clinton press secretary mike mccurry and many, many others. then on fox business, full debate coverage from 8:00 p.m. to midnight. your election, your country, your money. your future. all on the line and no one covers it like neil. before that, neil is going to tell you what this guy is saying, just proved our national debt is now officially a

national security risk. at the bottom of the hour. up next here, who says you can't go home? one in three homeowners expecting not just their adult kids but their parents to move back in with them. sounds like a bad sign for the economy. why is someone here saying it is good for the economy? americans are always ready to work hard for a better future. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times. never taking a bailout. there when you need them. helping millions of americans over the centuries. the strength of a global financial leader. the heart of a one-to-one relationship. together for your future. ♪ oh, hey alex.

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>> live from america's election headquarters, i'm kelly wright. the countdown is on, we are now just 17 days from election day, and, 48 hours from the third and final present digs debate. both president obama and governor mitt romney prepping for the last show down, taking a break from any events on the campaign trail, today. according to a series of new polls the race is in a statistical dead heat. but in battleground states,

support is swinging towards governor mitt romney. one more person has died from fungal meningitis linked to tainted steroid injections and the death toll is at 21 and the gross outbreak which spans 16 states has been linked to an injectable steroid used to treat back and joint pain and more than 270 cases have been reported so far but officials believe 14,000 people have been exposed to the shots. i'm kelly wright, we take you back now to "bulls and bears." for all the latest headlines, log onto foxnews.com. >> from an empty nest back to a full one. a new survey of homeowners revealing one in three are planning for their adult kids or parents to move in with them in the near future. you might think it is a terrible indicator for the economy. but, john, you actually say it is good news? >> i think it is. you have to stop somewhere, much to the dismay of my friend, tobin, a lot of people moving in

with their parents are doing it for one major reason, to save money which is now a lost art in america, thanks to some of the federal policies we have. there is no incentive to save money and secondarily, when those people are moving back in, they are fixing up the basements and painting the rooms and buying wallpaperer and rugs and we have to start somewhere, buying durable goods, hiring a handy man and paint company and these are the building blocks to getting a new president and back on track. >> what kids are you talking about? i've never seen a kid buy a new rug. >> for their 27-year-old kids. they are not -- they are coming home to save up. >> and that is what it is. mom and dad again. jonas, go ahead. >> these kids... >> they aren't doing a lot of home renovations in the basement. i'll say there's a big issue and that is that, i don't think either candidate or president is addressing it, these kids are coming out with $100,000

degrees, that are in history and in things that are -- film and will not match with today's workforce. and they are not a good fit to where the jobs are today, plus construction workers out of business and, they will be burdened by debt and, it is sad. right now it is the easiest time -- i wish when i was out of college, you could get a fha loan, and, you have a house and don't have your parents breathing down their neck and they are going home, over that and it must be a bad labor market and that is what we have to address, not the patch work things. >> susan, this is a sign people don't have jobs, they are fighting, you know, debt. debt is now a trillion dollars. for student debt at this point. >> that is a huge issue. i wouldn't say it is necessarily only because people don't have jobs but i think a lot of people, to john's point, which i agree with are trying to be more economical about their living situation and is a great trend to see they are trying to save and help pay down the debt

earlier, rather than just spend a lifetime in debt. never getting into the right kinds of jobs and never becoming more productive members of the labor force because they are saddled with the debt. >> gary k., a couple of boys, expect them to come home? will they be boomerang kids? is that good for the economy. >> i love my sons and one came home this weekend, from college, brought home a dog and the dog, you know what on the rug. and i have to buy a new rug... there is nothing good about 20 somethings living with the parents. for the most part these are people who don't have a job and if they don't have a job, they are spending and not spending and the economy is worsening and the economy worsens and you get a vicious cycle. i don't see anything good about that. i love my sons to live with me the rest of their lives, that is how much i love them but for a sign the economy is getting better you'll see the opposite and jonas, you are right. this is the best time for -- to have a job, because interest rates are so low, the ability to

be able to buy a small condo or something with 3%, it is free money at this point in time. >> tell me, this is kind of the way it used to be when generations all lived together and saved money... >> and they didn't like it. where are is the stanley b. smiths, i love you but, get the hell out! from an economic standpoint. >> there might be a personal issue there! >> the economic thing is, we're not getting household formation, which represents 1/2 of 1% of the entire gdp of the country, so on and so forth, by breaking the cycle, and, these kids aren't buying cars, they don't buy cars anymore, no cars, i don't know. >> what do they buy. >> video games. >> all right, the last word, guys. you can always lock the doors. all right, welfare spending now topping $1 trillion a year. why isn't poverty being wiped out in we add it up, and you decide. ♪

>> lying about libya, how the president's position on the attack will impact the final debates, plus is the presidential debate system broken? ralph nader reacts. tonight on huckabee. i was on maternity leave. i have retired from doing this one thing that i loved. now, i'm going to be able to have the time to explore something different. it's like another chapter. this reduced sodium soup says it mahelp lower cholesterol, how does it work? you just he to eat it as part of your heart healthy diet. step 1. eat the soup. all those veggies and beans, that's what may help lower your cholesterol and -- well that's easy [ male announcer ] progresso. you gotta taste this soup.

>> coming up, america's biggest budget expense, and some here are saying it is time to stop thegraphy train and plus, from you've got mail to you've got

>> this is and eye opener, all of our spending on welfare programs, now topping a trillion bucks a year, which exceeds the budgets of social security, medicare, and defense. since lbj declared war on poverty in the '60s, one study shows we've handed out more than 15 -- get this -- trillion dollars with a "t" yet the poverty rate is still at 15%, and is throwing more money at the problem making it worse. >> it is, and unfortunately it is not a financial issue, it is a cultural issue.

look at also the changes in children born, out of wedlock an divorces, and, single parent households, usually a female and, no a high school degree, that is where poverty comes from and the idea of paying stipend, will change the issue is naive and we are not defining the problem and, we try toolve it with the wrong medicine. that what is we do here. >> what is the real problem. >> some of the welfare spending is the college grants in school and fwigs -- they are trying to help, and it looks like wasted money on the surface. but when the war on poverty started and lbj kent around the country, people were poor and the poverty level was mal nourish. and no health care and today, i don't want to say you are okay. when you are poor but at the poverty level, there is a lot of heavy people on food stamps and you have a certain level of medicaid and you are better off because of the programs, it doesn't mean they don't need to

be cut or tweaked and it's not just this part of the budget, i argue everything but defense is welfare spending when it boils down to it. social security is welfare spending, if you don't put inasmuch as you are getting and medicare, too, if you took it away, most 8-year-olds could not afford health care, and i don't want to target the poor, but across the board the government needs to cut spending down and also, half the country is slipping through, that is the problem, the administration hasn't addressed and the programs will grow proportionately and most growth happened between '08 and '09 because of the economy, not because of major changes, because people are getting poorer and that has to be addressed. >> gary k., there is some level here, that if you keep giving people money and handouts, it creates a certain culture. >> it disincentivizes people and all the money has not lowered poverty or welfare, the war on poverty has absolutely failed when you take a trillion dollars a year from producers, and hand it to nonproducers, you cannot

expect good thing to happen. you've got to turn nonproducers into producers. and you are not giving them any incentives by handing them over a check. we had welfare reform in the '90s and we are turning it on its ear at this point in time and we are advertising for people to go on food stamps, and lowered the restrictions to get them. this is crazy. i want to hear the advertising and programs to get these people off of welfare, not onto it. >> pel grant, and, these are not -- if you look at the numbers, direct cash aid has gone down from the bush administration. so, obama has actually reduced the levels. and the main spending here is health care and the reason it is increasing is because health care costs are increasing, which we see across the economy and across the board in government, the percentage of health care spending is the same as it was in the bush administration. >> i guess you haven't read the food stamps numbers. have you read the food stamp numbers. >> i have but other social

services are going down and cash aid numbers are going down, health care is 45% of the spending, not food stamps. >> john? >> if you want your kids to grow up and become productive, you don't hand them an allowance every week, you hand it every week when they put the garbage out. you have to incentivize workers to want to lift themselves up, and by increasing the handouts to them, is not giving them any incentive at all, except to sit there and take in the obama administration's new policies, of expanding the new types of things that are considered work, under welfare. >> okay, that has to be the last word. thanks, guys and thanks to susan for joining us. we always appreciate having you here. >> great to be here. >> the big great over big bird, driving up one name and how it could lay you a golden egg.

>> predictions, toby. >> aol for e-mail, they were old but a new system is coming out,

and, i think it will help the stock up, 40%. >> john, bull or bear. >> bear. sorry. toby. >> no worries. >> what do you like. >> about to blow up now, microsoft takes a bite out of apple, 20%, by year end. >> gary k.? you like that. >> no. earnings down, revenue down, going no place fast. >> what do you like, then? >> i'm worried about a risky market, i'm going low beta value stocks and the pharmaceuticals are acting well, pfizer, 20% in 6 months, and trading ten times earnings and acting -- >> bull or bear. >> pipeline for 20%. >> prediction, jonas. >> okay, you cannot get a costume for halloween, big bird, because of the hysteria, hasbro, because of their... they can be selling these all day long, up 20% a year, definitely. >> you are so cute. tobin, a bull or bear. >> you talked about a gag for this and the egg color will not be golden. >> throw it around. >> i'm noto