>> that's the video of the day, thank you all for voting. that's all the time we have left. let not your heart be troubledr. greta van susteren issu standing by to go "on the record." >> greta: tonight, intimidated by the irs, conservative groups take their horror stories to capitol hill. >> i am not here as a sever or a vessil. i am not beg my lords for mercy. i'm a born-free american woman, wife, mother and citizen. i am telling my government that you forgotten your place. e >> in march of 2012, the confidential portions of our 990 tax return, including schedule "b," our list of major donors and home addresses, appeared on this web site of the human rights campaign, our principle political opponent in the rationwide fight over traditional marriage. the copy of our tax returns an

our list of donors that was posted there was redacted. our computer forensic people unlayered the redactions from the pdf file and discovered at the original document that was posted there had originated from within the irs. >> let's stop this charade of pretending that these are seal welfare organizations... d admit that they are political, treat them as such and play by the same rules that everyone on the csaittee plays for when we are involved in politics. >> representative, it's your kind of statements that have have empowered irs agents to make determinations about which organizations... [applause] >> qualify for the public good and which do not. in order to raise mone filed an application with the irs in january of 2011. seeking to obtain 501c3 status as an educational organization.

as of today, i have beeniting for 29 months without s in the interim, i st a $30,000 launch grala from aable nonprofitse executive director advised me he had never seen such treatment of a 501c3 applicant in 25 years of making grants. >> i am totally outrained boy the accusation that we are somehow subzed by taxpayers. people making donations to a c4, we are not getting any money from the taxpayer. we are seeing, hey, if we want to have a group is have people pay dues o make a donation or the end of the year that weou ae not subject to pay taxes on that money again, which is taxed when the person earned it. this is an outrage to say that so are taking money from starving children to fund our regroup. >> the republicans were looking for a conspiracy where there isn't one. mr. issa says he can feel it in

his gut that someone's broken the law. this is under irs commissioner, appointed by president bush. what happened to you was unfair, but it was a mistake. >> welcome to washington. >> the committee will be inm order. ryan has the time. >> heard r. gingrich, we heard bush. we had the former irs commissioner the shulman, who kw about it long before the congress imply that the organizations were responsible for targeting because they chose to apply for tax-exempt status. so you are to blame is, i guess, the message here. >> conservative groups getti their turn, t congress about the t irs putting a giant target on their backs. two of today's speakers joined us. let me ask you first, john, you know each other before your testimony today? >> not until this monning.

but he's a philosophical brother, after myal heart. >> w h about the other tea party? a couple of t i met phone conferences or whatever, but never in person. you. >> greta: you have been waiting 29 501c3, no authorized. auth months and counting as of yesterday. >> greta: you also lost a $30,000 -- >> $30,000 grant and the executive director told me he had never seen such treatment of an organization like mine. >> greta: doou think you got fair treatme y? >> i got fair treatment by half of t committe quite frankly, the other half did a disservice to themselves. the notion that the national organization of marriage was not eligible because we support traditional marriage and that doesn't have anything to do with

the commonwealth ore public good. it's those kind ble decisions that are made by the irs, empower bide statements like that, or president obama, quite frankly, that led to the mess we are. >> greta: have you received tthe authorization -- >> yeah. the national organization for ht the other groups were. we already are authorized as a 501c4. it an illegal digs closure of our tax returns. >> greta: given to an opponent. >> the head of the human rights campaign at the time had been named national co- of the obama national re-election campaign. they were seeking our donors intimidate them from giving further money to support our cause. a a felony, five years in prison. it's a serious felon >> greta: were your tax returns and list of donors -- are you able to trace them to the irs irsganization?ogue within the >> the copies of our own tax returns in our organization are clean copies. we filed them with the irs electronically.

when they are filed electronically, irs puts a code them. the redaction we were -- has the irs code on it. so we know that this came from within the irs. >> greta: do you know who did it? >> we don't know who did t. we have asked for an investigation and we have been stonewalled. >> greta: do they have an investigation ongoing? >> well, do hey now refuse toion acknowledge whethhere is one or not. but back in april, last year, oe they acknowledged and gave us a complaint number for the investigation. they investigated us to try to prove thate it came from someone within our that was the last wedi heard of the the heainvestigation. >> greta: kevin, anything sur >> what surprised me what was the democrats did. i agree that they did a disservice, they attempted to malign us as ifs our ideas didnt matter. constitutionally acceptable, but ours not worth the protection of

the co titution. >> greta: i think congressman mcdermott said that it was a mistake. was that fy unacceptable? >> to identify us as a mistake, this is a fundamental american issue. first amendment liberties for a reason. they are in the first amendment as a testament to how important they are to our liberties, but to say it's a ke is dismissive of all of these organizati because we don't zati -- we don't bring in a lot of money. at one poi the testimony, it was clear how little, how few dollars, $2,000 do $3,000 there. they demagogue us like we are a giant millions of dollars to fight the obama administration. we are mom and pop. >> greta:at is your occupation? this is a full-time job? >> i'm an entertainment lawyer, this has been a part-tiand a very small part-time, one-man

shoperation on thendide. >> greta: so before this, were you involved in politics? or is the tea party your first step into this arena about issues? >> weis are not tea partying. but we share philosophical concerns. we jealously guard human liberty. i would say my philosophical journey started 10 or 12 years ago. >> a: what about you, john? is this a full-time jofor you? >> i am the chairman of the national board of organization for marriage, but it's a volunteer position. we have a full-time staff. but my day job is a law professor atay chapman universi. >> greta: before this, you were involved in these issues? is this new to you? >> i ran for attorney general in california in 2010. that was as a tea party move was kicking into high gear. i probably spoke to every single one of the groups in california in that campaign of theynire terrific people, home-spun american who is have had enough

what have is happening in our country and wanted to do something about it. before they handed down something worse to tr kids. >> greta: any doubt in your mind you are targeeir and not a delay in your certificate? >> no doubt whatsr. >> greta: no. it's hard to claim tathis was inadvertent, when someone took the trouble to redact the irs information and our returns happened to show up in the hans of our political opponent. >> greta: what do you want to happen? >> i want the truth. there is clearly beent criminal legal violations and crimes. who committed the crimes, we t know yet. but for the irs to apologize. if we don' file, w are subject criminal penalties -- >> greta: you don't have to pay your taxes before they can challenge it. >> exactly. in this situation, thef irs is saying, we are sorry, that's not acceptable. >> greta: what would you like? >> there are felonies committed against our organization. i would like them prosecuted and

i would like that trail run up as far and as hard as it goes. , who put the redakzn it. we need to get to the bottom of it. >> greta: thank you. for almost two years, hous ways & means member charles wostani trying to get answers from thers. today, he heard from thehe irs targets. >> how did y find out that your donor list had been leaked irthe >> it appeared on a web site by the human rights campaign, our principle political opponent. >> somebody in your organization was look at that? >> somebody called it tocalled r attention. we saw that and saw the redakzs, this was march 30, 2012. within a few days our comer people were able to un-layer the redactions and we saw that it came from the irsrs itself. >> we have seen egregeious misuse and certainly mismanagement, it cannot be tol

kateerated. we have to get to the bottom of this. we have to get to the facts of what happened and the those -- e toponsible will be he account under the full -- fully under the >> greta: congressman boustany, good to have you here. and commissioner shulman there was absolutely no targeting going on in the irs? >> it's amazing that he had an opportunity to come clean at that point in time because, at this point in time... there was at investigation ongoing in the becausewasf allegations. we know that someone in the washington office was sent down to report back as to what was happeningo the cincinnati office, yet, we heard that testimony, he absolutely denied any ofni this. this is unacceptable. we will get to the bottom of it. >> greta: that's march 2012. let me back you up, to the chief counsel, william j. ins.

was he aware? >> we believe he was. we know the lawyers in his divisionaw were aware. i mean, something of this nature raises serious red flags. >> greta: repo by national review that the ort saidr general's general'sffice was notified,nout 2011. so six months later when the commissioner, then commissioner shulman's testifying he categorically denies no targeting. but we know his lawyer's office was notified and we have, of course, lois >> right. this. closing in oner. we have interviewed some of the cincinnati peopl we have some of the remaining onesemaito get. to we are doing that this week. we are g to work this thing from the ground up and everybody's going to be -- talked to in this. we are going to get theet interviews transcribed. we will get to the bottom of it. >> greta: the twotleman -- one's been waiting he monthsto

get authorization, obviously, he has been work -- jerked around. and the other donor list appeared on a web site and with the irs indicationhat it had come from the irs. what are you going to do? are you going to give criminal investigations of their case and make sure that done? >> we are looking to do that. we are trying to get all the facts. so this is going to take time, reviewing the documents that we are starting to get at this stage of the game. in fact, chairman camp and ifa t with the new acting commissioner who has pledged his full cooperation in this endeavor. fire in this.s feet to the we want to get the information. we want to connect the dots. get the facts on the table. put it out there in front of the american people and those who broke the law will play. ofcommissioner has been on the b since may 22. apparently has added a lawyer to advise him on scandal response. why in the world are we paying for another lawyer at the irs?

this is just like -- an employment hiring for the irs. isn't there a lawyer within the irs who ca do this? we get charged to investigate our investigation? >> i can only surmise, he wanted to> ring an outsidelawyer in because we don't know who was involved. >> greta: why does he need a lawyer? he's brand-new. he doesn't have anything to do with it. he wasn't even from the irs. he has nothing to hide. he just got there. why does he need aere. lawyer? >> he probably needs legal advice. >> greta: what?! find out what happened. people, you know, you can subpat hapeople or call them up. i don't understand, now this investigation is bigger and the taxpaye not toersmention the conferenre. >>hookill follow this thing all the way up. we are not going to let up until we get the answers. this is too big. dealing with the irs, the agency hat deals directly with people can destroy anybody. >> greta: you heard congressman

mcdermott. he said, you can stilltry. your work. means to get jerked around byr thedidn't irs. i am talking about the people, they get scared when they get a notice of deficiency. >>'s frightening. this can't be this agency has to be call to the carpet. we will get to the bottf it and clean house. this is an opportunity, also opinion for congress to really step up and do theeegitimate oversight to correct the deficiencies and hold people to account and to make sure that criminal prosecution occurs if we do prove that the federal law was broken, which is good evidence to suggest that that is the case. >> greta: good it see you. >>. >> good to see >> greta: was the irs incompetent or deliberately trying to shut up the tea party and teach them lesson? vote in our poll. straighthead, as if the dancing video is not bad enough,

it gets worse. ther out what. ridiculous ways the t irs wasted your taxic money. hold on to yo does attorneyeneral eric holder have something to hide? that's whatne congressmanwants . plus, sexb story, lingerie anda manikin. do we have your attention? stick around and find out why that's evidence in a bizarre crime. that's coming up. is itnking] is it that time? the son picks up the check? [thinking] i'm still working. he's retired. i ving.saving. i hope he saved enough. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. whether you're just starting your 401(k) or or you are ready for retirement we'll help you get there. make a wish!

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tony boesch executives, their dream to become the best dancers. this is their story. >> you are not just getting in class. get in line now. >> look, i never signed for this. i n signed up for is. >> are you guys ready? i don't see you guys being ready. i need you guys to get in line. >> thosere yur tax dollars at work. you have seen this dreadful irs dancing video. now, we are gi a look at exactly how the irs wasted more than $4 million on just one california conference and almost 50 million on other lavish employee conventions over two years. years. >>s. hi, greta.

>> greta: okay, $4 million on ams anaheim, which is i unglued about. what did we get -- actually, $4 penalty 1 million. >> for that, 2600 employee who is handle tax issues for small businesses and people w sma file -- who are self-employed, went to anaheim california and stayed in the hilton and two other hotels. they were esseoially managers so they were learning about leadership and training and eadeibly learning about security because this was the yeard that a guy who was pissed as hell at the irs crashed his plane interest a field office in austin,illing anic irs employee. this was traumatizing and one of the focuses of the conference was security. >> greta: they have traumatized o ny other people, i should say, sarcastically. now, in terms of theld congress, 2600. i take it, it was no secret it was going on. this wasn't like an underground thing. who authorized the expense of

this. has that been identifyd? >> well, yes, two deputy commissioners, t two number 2 thople at the irs, including the now former commissioner who has one of the number 2 spots authorized t. oof the reallythor fascinating things about this report that came out today that was really entia the inspector general for the treasury department, who is the watchdog for the irs, there is very little accountabilfor the auditors so when the tried to get, you know, expenditutron the conferenc why did this cost so much? how much did the outside event planners cost? how much did this cost? how much did that cost? it was very hard for them toet the receipts. so that, to me, in reading the showed that there was sort of a culture at the time -- remember, this was 2010 -- >> greta: that haven't audited the other years? >> well, yeah. they focused on this conference because theyd felt that the

spending was excessive. >> greta: there'a fox news alert. $4 million is excessive? they thought >> the irs has said, look, we acknowl that this was a big problem. we do not have conferences like biis any. >> greta: who was the personany that -- the high-ranking person who authorized so? >> well, there were a number of them. the -- these werewo t deputy commissioners at the time. one of whom, i believe was a former irs commissioner. >> greta: who? >> mr. shulman. >> greta: theong one . congressman boustany said there was no targing. he has authorized the spending. if you look at report, they paig two event planners and they paid them -- they gaveem a percentage on ataommission and rooms to get cheaper roomsl because the larger the bill, the bigger their commissions was. t> you know, greta, a lot of

government conferences have come undernm scrutiny in recent year. we have talked about the conference held the same year, 2010 at the gsa, general services -- >> greta: the guy in the bathtub. >> yeah. that was in las vegas. i have to say, though, that the federal government in the last n years has really cut back on the conferences, throughout the government. partly because of the optics and partly because they don't want to spend the money. >> greta: even to have done it in the first place, whoidn't have a sense that it was not okay to spend money like this? they are parties. i mean, it's like, they money le this? they really aren't conferences. they could get gym and a bunch of folding chairs and podium with a micropne if they wanted a conference. the culture was, who cares, it ot theirs. >> the culture was also about building rale. i think there were some productive thinat happened at these conferences. i think everyone inside and outside government agrees that

this shouldn't have happened. it should not continue to happen. i think a lot of people will be watching many govern agencies to make surehese of things don't happen. >> lisa, thank you. > coming up, well not another one. another administration scandal brewing. what now? the latest is next. also, amannequin, lingerie and sex the boys used double miles from their capital one venture card to fly home for theig family reunion. you must be garth's father? hello. mother. mother! traveling is easy with the venture card because you can fly airline anytime. two words. double miles! this g can act. wanna play dodge rock? oh, you guys! and with double miles you can actuay use, you never miss the fun. beard growing conte and go! ♪ win! what's in your wallet? e verizon share everything plaup to 25 devicesnessou t on one easy to manage plan.

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>> 27-, or 28,000 a month. 400 come into the private email. it's a management issue, i can't possibly answer or screen all of them. i want people to get timely answers. >> greta: we have an a.p. reporter. the a.p. made a freedom of information request. is that correct? >> that's correct. >> greta: what did you find? >> after the epa said they had a separate email account to conduct business, that's the former administrator, we thought it would be good idea to see how often other members of the administration have done the same. so we had d a foyer rest, which any member of the can pubc can do, to every vel ncy. the sppses were very revealing. most didn't respond to our request, even though we filed them 3 months ago. one said an error heir credit said it would cost $1 million.

another one, which was a health and human services said it would say, we are not going on give you the addresses and one of the addres was public, anyway. so... in that whole process we found out that there are separate email accounts. and they are subject to the freedom of information act, congressional inquiries, but we haven't been able to verify that. >> greta: if they say they are subject to foyer request and they don't respond after 90 days or cost you $1 million, they have made it impossible to verify whether or not they are subject to the foyer if they are not forthcoming. >> right. tried to do, like we do with this administration, previous administration, we unbelievable transparency, we want to ask the government what it knows because we are taxpayers and weve paid forinformation and we have a right to look at the novembers. in our view, we asked for the email adesses, simple list, you go to the server and say, who are the people with email acco the server.

we asked for the list. most people didn't give it to us -- or they haven't yet. others said they were protected... and we -- we pushed back. others just simply didn't give us the list of emails. >> greta: epa administrator's -- hers is really weird. she w using a man's name. kathleen sebelius says she has two accounts one is thousands and thousands and one is private, interna that would not be unu, right? >> that's right. richard dot windsor, the name of her dog special a town in new jersey. >> greta: that was weird. we all agree that was odd. >> some would call it counter intuitive. and what kathleen sebelius was was department of from the kathleen.sebeli that you would expect.

going back to wh we thought, we had said, look, it appears as epa is doing this practice. we filed a request, asking for what everyone else we believe in nsparentsy and openness. we pay for the records. we would like to know what our elected officials, was it administratior previous? >> gre they talk transparency. we will see if they produce it. i hope they are watching tonight. thank >> thank you. >> greta: tonight, congressman accusing attorney general eric der ofrg something to hide. he is not happy with the ly letter from the justice department. an assistan a.g. defense lawyer about the surveillance. but the chairman wants the answers directly from attorney gene hder. >> good to be with you. >> greta: the big proble attorney general holder about the 15th of may said that he dependent know anything about any potential investigations or prosecutions of reporters and

that turned outot to be so because you had james rosen here. what do you want? >> we want to have the attorney general respond to the questions that we have posed to him, based upon the clear contradiction between his sworn testimony in the committee and his approval of the affidavit for a search warrant in the rosen case before the committee when asked by congressn hnk johnson of georgia about the prosecution of reporters said the potential prosecution of porters was something he had never heard of, thought it would be an unwise thing to do. after the testimony, the judge in that case, who had sealed the search warrant affidavits realized that there was 18 mos overdue at being released to the public. they were supposed to be held 18 months. they were held for 3 years. they were released just a few days after the attorney general's testim and they showed in that affidavit that...

the fbi warrant that he approved stated that mr. rosen was at least an aider abettor in violation of the spean -- espionage act. why can't i te him, come o back you? do the explaining. if you don't want to come back, we will subpoena you to come back? >> well, i think that once we know that the attorney general has not m our deadline of 5:00 p.m. tomorrow, those are the alternatives we will be looking at. we are going to pursue this matter beyond 5:00 p.m. tomorrow if he doesn'trespond. that's certainly the option of the committee. >> greta: how soon? >> we will wait to see whether or not he responds. we will pursue it and purstew

promptly joo. >> greta: do you expect him to respond? >> i expect him to respond. this is not in the best interest of the nation or the obama administration to leave this uncertainty what have the department is doing when they are investigating reporters. are they putting false information before judges? or if it's true and they say, we never prosecute. if it's that serious and he's a co-conspirator -- why wouldn't you. >> greta: the attorney general is held in contempt of congress on fast & furious and what happens, tperson who has to prosecute the contempt charge is the justice department and they sat on it. they obviously didn't take it seriously. why do you think they will take it seriously this time? >> well, this time, the attorney general's credibility is personally on the line and nerms of sworn testimony before the judiciary committee and the question of whether that testimony is untruthful, maybe perjureious is something that the committee needs to

investigate. >> greta: what if it is just dodgy and cagey and he is the highest law officer in the country? he can explain it to be literally true. >> that's certainly something he needs to put on the record. if that's hisefense, he needs to putat "on the record." if his defense is that he was telling the truth, needs to answer our questions specifically, not haa lower-level aid answer them for him. >> greta: thank you. >> thank you. >> greta: up next, suz martinez, does she think eric holder should resign? that's next n. two minutes,hs secret sebelius is on the hot seat. hear from her and tell us if she has trouble on the horizon. that's just minutes awasm i want to make things more secure.

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but she insists, she didn't break t law. >> i made fund-raising solicitations to two groups that are not regulatedt d i didn't discuss funding with the other three. i did discuss eenrol america. i woul tell thought statutory authority,ection 1704 in the public service acting would not make that distinction. i could legally solicit funds from anybody regulatorr fy our office. i chose not to do that. but promoting a public/private a partnership -- you bet. >> greta:e has secretary sebelis gone off the deep end, thinking e can solicit money from people she regulators? or is she following the law? we are back in two. [ phil ] when you have joinint pain and stiffness... accomplishing even little things can become major victories. i'm phil mickelson, pro golfer. when i was diagnosed with psoriatic arthritis, my rheumatologist prescribed enbrel for my pain and stiffness, and to help stop joint damage. [ male announcer ] enbrel may lower your ability to fight infections.

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on which i'm sure you are aware of. your thouabout the irs being accused of targeting the tea party? >itit is really unfortunate. confidein their government.have when you know that the irs, an agency that has that kind of power, to be targeting individuals or organizations simply because of their beliefs really does take away the faith and confidence thatthey are doing the right thing for the right reason. see that they are targeting any organization. they should treat people fairly across the board without any political infen whatsoever. >> in your prior life, were you a prosecutor, with the d.a. your thoughts on what's going on -- a lot of republicans are calling for the resignation of the attorney general. >> i think we need to have is ansm the attorney general. first and foremost, he needs to answthe tough questions. heneeds to answer them honestly. he nee to let the american people know where the failures

have occurred, so that those can get fixed. resigning and getting away from helem and the american peoplt finding out what happened so it doe happen again and so people are held accountable, that needs t take place first. >> are we getting straight answer frs the att gener? is he ering all the questionscompletely? >> i don't know if he is or isn't. it doesn't appear we are getting the full story. >> immigration reform, it is importantour home state. your thought on w the gang of eight has proposed or how it is meandering through cong >> i certainly beli that there are several solutions to the immigration question, not ju one single answer. we absolutely haveo secu the border first. the border has to be secured order to prevent that continuous flow of people that are coming through the border illegally. however, one thing have to remembeisis that the border doesn't just allow people from mexico to come through. thme f all over the world thro that border that is between the united states and mexico. i do think that people such as

children that came here without a say-so, certainly should be treated a little differentl han sooneo made the decision to break the law and come to the united states. also, we want to encourage immigration. we want to bring peo here who can stay here, go to our universities, rin in our universities and stay in the ted states even after have completed their education. >> so are you in favor of the proposal whether it be some sort of path of citizenship for the 11 million or million that are heregally or what would you suggest? >> i believe we should have a pathway to legal status. >> what's the difference. >> when you have a pathway to citizenshiyound up disrespecting the people th are in line and have been in line and have been d all the to bec a citizen and ther thway to citizenshllows those people to jump in front of the line of those that have done everything correctly. i think to have legal status lows se individuals to be here legally and attend our school and have a job and pay

their taxes and do all the things they shod just like a things they shod just like a nshi if citizenship is the desi, get at the end of the line. >> greta: i suppose you are doing somewhat of a victory dance, but the supreme court yesterday upheld 5-4, the cision, actually, they reversed the maryland highest court and now they have allowed it so law enforcement can take dna swab when is someone has been arrested but not convicted. that goes back to a case you handled in 2003 or 04. >> that's right. young college student, years old, she was raped, kidnapped and murdered and dumped into a dump site, put on f the trying get r evidence. she hadte dna underneath her fingernails. but when they uploaded it to the national database, they couldn't find a match. n until several years later, the person who killed her was convicted of a felony, but he was convict audio at that time, they took his dna and found a match. 3 years of agony for the family before determining who was

responsible for killing her. >> greta: didmining he commit ae in that three-year period od?to this?t valid some weight >> it would be -- arrested. that's why the law's changed. upon arrest any of felony in mexico, a simple swabbing with a k-tip, placed into a box, we only take 13 markers, 13 markers of dna. a person has millions of them. we only take 13 and upload that and it matches up to any prior3 crime thave you committed that has gone unsolved. >> g: you go from handling a case and it turns out that you are -- the governor signs the law, which would have enabled a very different result, earlier? >> absolutet . i even testified in front of the committee because it was my case, i understood it well and how non-invasive the procedure was. it is really a fingerprint of the 21st certain.

we have been taking fingerpwe h for a very long time photo so as governor, to be able ablet take part in making people accountable or enerating them. >> greta: fingerprints is a way to make sure you have the right identity of the person in cust few and track a pers >> it's also a marker for identifying a person who is responsible. you can issue a warrant with just dna markers. you don't have to wait to know who itoelongs to. you issue warrants with dna markers so you can preserve the statute of limitations. it is a way of identifying the person responsible as well. >> greta: what else is governor martinezing in washon? will she make a run for president in go to gretawire.com for more. straight ahead, a strange but true crime. the evidence, a manikin, toys.ie and whatappened? that's caught on camera.

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>> greta: a young yo-yo champ dazzling crowds at national yo-yo contest. take a look. >> the star joined the competition winning the contest. thank you for being with