(woman vo) it takes him places he's always wanted to go. that's why we bought a subaru. (announcer) love. it's what makes a subaru, a subaru. >> you have washington, d.c. littered with scandal. >> they refuse to tell the truth refuse to cooperate. >> these are some of the most hottest most intense stories in the public. >> this is a pattern and you string it all together and you think what do these people know? what is equally concerning is how do people not know. >> you have a scandal the again zi, irs and ap issue. these are national security issues. >> wall street journal. they believe they have major doubts about the integrity and

honesty of the obama administration of the irs and subpoena of records. 18 percent. >> they have 0 tolerance. it has been demonstrated through out the presidency. >> the real scandal of washington is quickly becoming the most unprotect tive congress of the history of the united states. >> an international manhunt who leaked classified information about nsa surveillance programs. in washington another hunt. these are straight answers from the obama administration. >> they are afraid of what the government is doing. it's under the guise of people keeping us safe. >> don't trust federal judges.

to make sure we are aguiding by the constitution due process and rule of law. we are going to have some problems here. >> this program does not target innocent americans in any way, shape or form. these programs help keep america safe. >> they have no authority under the constitution or anything else to collect data on every american phone call. >> which are trying to stop bad people to from doing bad things. these programs are effective in that regard. you can see how they can be abus abused. >> you haevery cell phone in am is having their data tracked. >> news behind one of the biggest leaks in government secrets we have seen and heard about in years. now he is voluntarily setting

forward what they did. >> i have the authority to wire tap everyone from you or your accountants to a fetderal judge. the attorney general would you go after him? >> in a new york minute. >> you can't come forward against the world's most powerful intelligence agencies and be completely free from risk, because there's such powerful adversarieadversaries. no one can be opposed. if they want to get you, they will get you in time. >> this is the biggest fundamental point. >> he admitted he had given only the least untruthful answer?

>> does the nsa collect any data at snul>> not wittingly. there are cases where they inadvertently perhaps collect but not wittingly. >> is it okay for him to lie? had there not been a leak they would have known. >> they have said correctly in my view that strong congressional oversight is absolutely essential in that area. it is not possible for congress to do the kind of vigorous over site what the president spoke about if you can't get straight answers. >> when are you going to stop beating your wife? it isn't able to be a yes or no. i answered in the most truthful manner and said no. >> in your statement you said

that you gave his office a chance to amend it. what did he do? >> sent down a question ahead of time. we indicated to them afterwards there would be an opportunity to amend it. >> what did they do? did they respond? >> the answer was never commended. >> the most truthful or the least untruthful answer. this isn't a question of whether he is a nice guy or whether he served well. >> i think the senator's question, in fairness he advised he was going to ask the question. knowing that is pretty hard to say the answer wasn't prau joer

why yous. the famous foreign minister it was a crime but it was a mistake. it was the stupidest possible answer to give. i don't think it should have been asked at all. it can only be answered accurately in a classified environment. i think it was a gotcha question. but faced with the senator determined to get headlines clapper's answer should have been senator i couldn't answer that question in open session be glad to address it in a classified session. >> he testified untruthfully i made a mistake with clapper and i regret making that statement. >> it is to get people to believe the government is looking over their shoulder while they are on the computer listening in on their phones.

i think he should have gone to him first. then he should have gone to the chairman of the committee and saided same thing. >> as you and i discussed not appropriate to answer in that closed session why he didn't go to the white house, why he made up this ridiculous answer and said it was the least untruthful i don't have the slightest idea. i think he should resign because of embarrassment. >> why is it a young guy snowed den in terms of how young he was as a contractor why did he have so much access? >> i think with bradley manning enlisted man in the army who relegaled hundreds of thousands of diplomatic communications we

have a problem that has to be ex plagued. i don't know where he had accomplices where he is picking up information for people on the hill. i find it hard to believe he had access to everything or everything he said he had access to. that is contributed to the hysteria. >> he is in hong kong, at least we think he is. >> i don't know that we know enough to say how he is itch indicated with china. more about his motives emerge as he leaks information that has nothing to do with america's privacy telling the chinese what may or may not be accurate information about our cyber warfare against them. i thought they committed treason

before. i think if that is true i think that caps, too, that it is treason. >> good to see you. >> thank you. >> is the obama administration keeping congress out of the loop? they suggest only intel committee knew about prison, though. the republican councilman billy law does not agree with president obama. >> i have no notice we checked our e-mail. i think it is a fiction everybody in congress knows. we have our intel committee that get briefed but the full congress does not. >> most nemembers of congress we

not aware of how broad this thing was. it probably suggests we need to have additional over site. >> it has been said every member of congress knew about the program. the ones i have spoken to were not aware of this program. we were lied to about the existence of this program. >> director rick klein joins us next. >> between your tweets with congressman long it seems a lot of people are not on the same page. >> the president is mistaken if he thinks everybody knew about this. they are mistaken if they think they had no way of knowing about this. everybody had access to this information if they had gone to classified briefings. the catch is not a lot of the members knew what was going on in the briefings. they didn't know it was going to be an important one they didn't know it was going to be cast the same way as the information last week. there was a lot of things

members of congress rank and file members most of them were legitimately in the dark on this. >> if i was invited to a classified briefing that would be the one i would go to. they didn't think this classified one was important. i would think all classified would be important. >> there are two laws one is members of congress are busy. you heard that from congressman they didn't get to bring any staff into these briefings. it is difficult to know which one is worth it when you have all of these things going on. maybe not that sympathetic to say i was too busy to go as a member of congress. the other side is what you learn in those briefings you are not allowed to talk about even act on other than just through your votes. you can't even tell most of your colleagues about what happens in there. there are some members of congress saying if i am going to go in there and learn things i can't even complain about if i couldn don't agree with them i don't know them in the first place so i can be untruthful to my colleagues about it. it was interesting where they can't even talk about the things they learn in there. >> can't they rise their hand inside the class and say i don't

think this is a good idea i like to have dialogue among themselves to sort of say well i couldn't talk about it so i didn't bother to go. now i don't know anything. >> that's true. we didn't have an example from the bush administration they were so concerned about something he wrote about it yhe had to write it in his own hand he filed it away and nothing he could do about it. the fact is unless the committee chairman on the intelligence committee or majority of the intelligence committee members are opposed to something when they hear about it it will continue. that's why the range and file member has no say in it. a real public debate is a fallacy. >> does this go away or does it get bigger? >> the president said he wanted a debate he is getting the debate we are having it for the first time we are having more call for public accountability and the nsa classified some of the programs learned about more of it that way. they are not happy about learning about it with the press. >> how do you escape this one? >> i think they have bipartisan

support. there are plenty of members of congress far left and far right who need to have information about this one. >> lawmakers they are not the only ones who may be fed up. many americans have in enough about the government am's cloak and dagger routine even surveillance after the secret. is the fight of the court just a rubber stamp? we asked former u.s. attorney general michael mukasey. >> let me ask you about the court. when i looked at some of these numbers in 2013 -- 2012 according to a letter sent to harry reid the government made 1,789 applications for authorities to conduct electronic sur ray lens. they went through one and 1,788 were granted. that means every single won the government asked for was granted. it looks like a rubber stamp to me. >> it's not. it means two things number won the national security division always has been, was when i was

there and i am sure still is very, very cautious about what they apply for, because the one thing they have going for them is credibility. secondly those statistics don't tell you what changes were made before they were granted whether the courts pushed back as it sometimes does and asks in the applications. that often happens. >> let me ask you this. in terms of the wash shoes nature we see the best of the best seeking the warrant to grab james rosen's information that was anything but cautious. that was reckless. >> that was not the national security division. that was the u.s. attorney's office and the district of columbia that submitted an affidavit that would have been bounced by anybody with a law degree and should have been. >> and it was not. that's the thing that scares me. the one thing is there was no challenge to the government. everything was on national security and submit the car rants in front of the judges

they go up to the judge. there are no such things as check and balances. ombudsman speak to the people saying maybe there should be pull back on this application. >> greta, you are mixes up two things. the rosen affidavit was not by the court. >> i know that. >> but it was -- the federal court, i understand that. these are experienced members of the bench. that wasn't a new magistrate or a federal judge. >> he signed off on that affidavit. i know he never would have signed off on it even if he was woken up in the middle of the night. he was signed off by a judge who was an appointed official not confirmed by the senate. >> he was respected. >> he may have been respected before this but if you read the affidavit there is no way that warrant should be granted. >> there is no checks or balances and the judges who sit on the court come off of the district court.

this is an extra assignment they have. we have no way to know what they are doing. >> of course we have no way to know what they are doing. they are involved in an intelligence gathering which is a sensitive progress. you are saying there's no room for secrecy in the government. we have no checks and balances in the manhattan project either. >> we ought to have some representative make sure they recreate the support someone who says nothing but yes, sir, yes, sir everything the government does. >> you don't know what's what they are doing. >> when they get 100 percent of the applications i have to admit i am suspicious. >> you may be suspicious but they may be doing less than what they should be doing going in on the safe cases. ray kelly over precisely that. he said the percentage was too high because they weren't going far enough. >> what is all of the snooping doing to the credibility of the government. we are going to talk about that

with brit hume coming up. next the fireworks in the irs scandal. does the targeting go all of the way to the top? donald trump says he had the irs just as it is. donald trump is here to tell you what he really thinks about the irs coming up. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in

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>> the irs scandal sparking a war within the house over site committee. letters going back and forth between compare man darrel issa and congressman elijah coming. here is how it all started. >> democrats saying the case is closed end of story. >> based upon everything i have seen the case is solved. if it were me i would wrap this case up and move on. >> cummings saying the scandal over the irs tea party groups has been solved. >> i notice them laughing we have begun the investigation. >> elijah cummings should not have done what he did. it is irresponsible. he knows the investigation is not a done deal. >> if it was solved we would know who the infamous people were and lois lerner wouldn't be where shells.

>> our goal is to root out the problem. >>ous over site committee daryl sig ice saw released irs staffers saying washington orchestrated the program. >> it was operated and done by a low level employee in cincinnati. who directed this? where did this come from? >> this self gages is not over. we have to begin with the fact that this was beginning with an irs policy an irs policy they were targeting. the second aspect is finding out who and holding them accountable. >> so how high up does the scandal really go? over site committee member goudy joins us. >> nice to see you. we have this little war back toward the chairman and ranking members. congressman cummings the case is closed. is it? >> it's not. i think mr. cummings would be the first to tell you that he probably spoke in artfully. i can't tell you what he meant.

what he said i think in subsequent interviews he has backed off a little bit. >> it doesn't tone down the rhetoric. it is back and forth between congressman cummings and chairman ice saw. i guess it is some what different congressman cummings wants all of the transcripts from the witnesses for the people who worked in ohio released. >> if we were in court he would probably be right under the rule of cleatneompleteness. we are not in court. this is an investigation. police routinely do not release the information. police can legally use deception during an investigation. i am not suggesting any one would do that. but there's a big difference between an investigation and a court proceeding. i think mr. cummings is thinking in terms of transparency, openness and ajude kau tory process where ice saw is thinking we are in the middle of an investigation we want people to come forward.

we are not going to subject people to humiliation. police may release a profile of the suspect or they may not. >> what congressman cummings is saying he would be willing to retact or take out or limit information that may be harmful to someone. congressman isa giving pieces of bait before the media. it is meant to tease the media. that doesn't in any way advance the investigation. this is tol picks. >> it is politics. let me suggest one other possible motive chairman he's saw may have. he may want to signal others that you are not alone. there are a myriad of reasons why you would not release all of the information but some of it. i usually err on the side of early release. >> it is eater all or nothing with me. >> but you can see there is a

totally different standard in the investigation than the courtroom. >> as much as i appreciate the piece of information getting released to us in my role in the show as a journalist i don't see how that advances the investigation for republicans to make little pieces that have advantageous to the government's viewpoint this is a huge scandal and growing scandal. >> this is the benefit i have. chairman ice saw the ranking member when things were done to his side that i think he remembers very well. it would be great if people treated one another like you ought to treat one another all of the time. memories run long. it is asking a lot for chairman ice saw to all of a sudden be the good guy when dreadful things were done when he was a ranking member. >> so it is pay back.

>> if it is not really the right thing to do but the other guy did. if the other guy did it i am doing it now. it never stopped. >> it is not long to release. they release part of the information release one but not all fewour of the suspects. they could send a signal to someone who is on the precipice of coming forward but hasn't decided yet or wants to have this evidence come forth but not that. i can't read chairman issa's mind. i have the benefit of seeing those men talk privately and there is much less fighting and consternation and bickering going on when the cameras are off than when they are there. they get along very well when the cameras are not on.

>> i would beg your pardon on whether or not it is early. we have plenty of time to be further along than we are now. we know it's not isolated to cincinnati. we know it comes out of dc but we don't know how high up. i think that is more evidence that we need to have more depositions. less committee hearings they are less conducive to getting the information out. >> it was bad. >> i agree that you corrected me and i agree with the correction. >> coming up, wasting your money on-line dancing. should the irs be abolishpoll - abolished. the obama administration, congress, someone else. brit hume is here to talk about

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in dealerships everywhere. in theaters, june 14th. when the fedel >> i think we ought to abolish the irs and move to a simple flat tax where the average american can still add our taxes on a postcard. >> should we abolish the irs? does donald trump like the irs just the way it is? let's with him. donald joins us. nice to see you. >> hello greta. >> how do you like the irs? are they fine as they are? >> there are a lot of different people and a lot of different ideas. some are good and some are bad. the tax code at a minimum should be a lot simpler. that is a very, very big move.

tbld be nature's move. in a lot of ways they have done a very good job over the years. the fact is to abolish it you are talking about an entirely different tax and different tax code. that can be dangerous. >> how much does the irs targeting scandal really matter to american people other than those who are specifically targeted who are unhappy as they should be? >> it is amazing. i thought when i heard the big three you had the ap skcandal ad the you benghazi. i thought benghazi was horrible because that is the aem bass tore and the other people. it was a terrible thing but with benghazi and ap i thought the irs was going to resinate by far the most. it was until 4 or 5 days ago. other than you it doesn't seem like people are talking about it

so much. it is fading. you talk about teflon the president is an amazing phenomenon. it doesn't seem to be resinating like it did a couple weeks ago. when this calm out it was the biggest story, it was the biggest scandal and all of a sudden it does not seem to be resinating any more. >> i think there's a lot when the american people talk about in terms of the recent nsa as well as benghazi. you have the problem with the economy so very sluggish. why do think the irs has not resinated? >> i am not talking about at the beginning. at the beginning it was a massive point of discussion. a lot of people were upset in both parties as they should be. over the last three or four-days i notice it's not really being talked about by the liberty

media or nbc's or abc's or cbs's. they are not talking about it. it seems to be going away like so many other things are going away. >> how do you grade congress and the president in response to the irs scandal? >> they are making a response, it's a strong response. the issue is not the same issue we had two weeks ago, greta. i think you know that as well as anybody. you are talking about it and sean hannity is talking about it. a lot of people aren't. a lot of people incensed at it they have give ep up the issue. i am surprised they have given it up. >> which matters more to you we have a discussion around the dinner table with friends which has a more heightened concern the n sashg or irs or benghazi at this point? >> benghazi is terrible to what

happened to the ambassador. this should never be allowed to happen. we know the people that did it there has been no retribution. how do you allow this to happen. benghazi should be something that is really beyond anything very disgraceful the way it has been handled. but i would say this. the irs scandal should be the biggest but it is not. the other is a real mess. they talk about national security. is it national security? is it not? who wants to have people looking into every time you make a call. look at the factory they are building. i have never seen anything like it. the buildings they built for this i have never seen anything. if it's a matter of national security greta that's an important thing but it can't be not to this extent.

>> did the president semen gaged and are these scandals that aren't sort of his problem? >> doesn't seem to be overly engaged. i have never seen so many happen at one time. in a way having this many somebody said, this is what they want. because nobody focuses on anything or nobody focusing on the ones that really would resinate the best. a lot of people are thinking tafz done that way on purpose. i don't happen to believe that way. i would say this. you have a tremendous number of wad things happening in this country right now. call them scandals that's what they are. they are all happening at once and people aren't focusing. >> why not? >> will have to answer that question. you are trying to get them to

focus. as an example the ap that was such a big deal. the liberals gave it to anybody that almost got them going to other things but now they have calmed down and everything is hunky dori on that one. it is amazing this kind of stuff rnl they don't last for a very long period of time. when you have 161 people going to the white house and 161 going to the commissioner that's amazing. you have the secretary of defense going 15, 20 times. >> the irs and nsa in scandal.

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>> live from america's news headquarters i am mary an lafferty. police sealing off a park to keep them out of the area. they were used for people protests. now it is a site for political unrest. the turmoil bringing in the question of stability of the turkish government. justin roads wins the u.s. open at the marion golf club outside of philadelphia. he's the first english man to win the u.s. open in 43 years. his first major victory. phil mickelson led going into the round. it is the 6th career u.s. open runner up benefits for film.

now back to "on the record"". for the latest hid lines log on to foxnews.com. >> who ended up most bruised battered politically? fox news senior political analyst brit hume joins us. kwon gres man kucinich and pike el moore and glen beck. >> there is a place on the political spectrum with the right and left intersect if you get out there far enough and the scandal hits the spot. >> who is getting bruised right now politically? >> the obama administration is for any reasons. it is fair to say it hurt his

credibility. equally important it hurt the credibility of the government in general. it's an institution that could be trusted to do a good job. these scandals spreading across several departments raised doubts about the truthfulness of government officials their honesty and their competence. that is an administration that beliefs in government and can do good things. >> it is less of that problem than an international problem. when you have president putin of russia lecturing us we need their help whether it is trying to get russia to back down on syria. this is more noise here but on a grand scale it is harmful. >> it is harmful to have a

president be weakened poll cleep and domcally weakened and in the world. i think contributing to that also is the problem the president seems to have with international issues in terms of his resolve when we had another example of it just now when the report comes out finally it was used by the government and syria against the rebels. the president is engaged in a lot of big talk. they look around and think what is this guy? this is weak and lame. it contributes to the fact that his will is not being worked in the world. >> they give a big speech on immigration. right now there was a big immigration discussion on capitol hill. do these scandals have any

impact on his ability to achieve that athat which he wanted? >> it is hard to measure that. he was already being asked to stay out of the debate. it will pay out of both houses. it will get through the conservative republican house. to those conservative members barack obama is radioactive. the best thing they can do is not be front and center on it. that is where he has been. the bill has been moving. i am not going to say it will pass but his weakness was already displayed. it was reduced to almost nothing then failed.

jang 20th he looked bulletproof. he won a surprising victory. they called it a resounding win. gun immigration he had to stay out of. he is in trouble. >> what do you think he thinks tonight? >> i am sure he is frustrated. i thought he may seem as a man who is different between being smart and being wise. i am sure he is frustrated and finds this unreasonable. you can see he has more gray hairs. >> we all do. >> double talk do americans trust the government at all? on the record hits the street to find out. ent at all? you hurt my feelings, todd.

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>> g >> scandals rocking our government are they also taking america's trust in political leaders. if so how bad? we hit the ground to find out. >> do you trust the government? >> not at all at this point. >> i feel they have our best interest in mind. >> i do. it's hard to trust people that you don't know what their end goal is going to be. everyone has the hidden agenda. >> when you heard the news about the nsa scandal obviously more will be uggh cover d. we first heard the news what was your thoughts?

wh ? >> i have i would like to say a healthy look at the government. >> it has shaken a little bit of the confidence. you wanted everything to be secure. you want to feel secure in america but at the same time what lengths to do we need? do we need everybody to be watched? >> i like to think the steps taken recently is taken from national security. um willing to sacrifice if it means protecting the country. >> the irs targeting certain individuals how do you feel about that? >> as of my knowledge i haven't been targeted. that's not the way it is that's not the way to do business of any kind. if we were targeting people we would be out of it quickly. >> president obama is the most open transparent in history. do you see it that way?

>> transparency hasn't been there. >> hasn't been transparent since day one. >> not as transparent as ever before. very much said one thing and done another. >> coming up which terror plats were stopped the controversial nsa spying programs. we get closer to the answers next. eating chalk for heartburn? yeah... try new alka seltzer fruit chews. they work fast on heartburn and taste awesome. these are good. told ya! i'm feeling better already. [ male announcer ] new alka seltzer fruits chews. enjoy the relief!

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6. >> greta: many americans outraged by the government's >> many law americas insisting the surveillance has already prevented terror attacks. next week we hope to get answers to find out exactly which terror plots were stopped. untell against officials could make i