>> steve: that's right. >> megyn: we'll see you at 1:00 p.m. >> steve: you're already trying to steal our audience? >> megyn: i just gave you three hours. >> brian: or run to the radio if you can. how is that? >> steve: see you tomorrow. bill: good morning, everybody. a fox news alert. there are new secrets revealed by the nsa leaker edward snowden said to be dropping his next bombshell. he says british diplomats spies during the high-stake tawngs to get and upper hand. martha: snowden claims british spies tapped phones and set up fake internet cafes to tractd

communications during the 2009 summit. bill: what are the details we can report? >> reporter: the latest revelations coming from nsa leaker snowden coming into the "guardian" newspaper today. it happens to be the day ireland is hosting the g8 summit. it claims they were eavesdropping on various delegations in 2009. it was prime minister gordon brown at the time. it included monitoring e-mails at the internet cafe as well as 45 agents around the clock listening to phone calls and monitoring e-mails coming from broke berry delegations.

also included guys that u.s. agents for the nsa based here in the u.k. during that same period were listening in on communications of then russian president medvedev. bill: i think this will take away from all of this. president obama is at the g8. he unless northern ireland. what the's reaction -- what's the reaction here. >> reporter: some people are wondering if they are being listened to again. david cameron was asked that specific question whether there was the same kind of surveillance going on here. and he said he could not comment on intelligence on security matters. some delegations like turkey and south africa are asking a bunch

of questions. it's widely assumed there is some kind of surveillance going on at these summits and it's thought even post cd war the u.s. and russia are listening very closely to what everybody else is talking about. but rarely do we see these kind of specifics published online and in the newspaper. the specific document and detailing of how russian immediatpresident medvedev talkk to moscow. bill: greg palkot watching that story from london. martha: everybody spying on everybody. we send over our own presidential limousine because way back we figured out somebody was listening in in a borrowed

limousine. >> edward snowden's dad is speaking out. watch some of this. >> i'm here because i'm really concerned about the misinformation in the media. he's a sensitive, caring young man. this is the ed i know. it's the same ed, he is a deep thinker. >> reporter: in one point you said you are concerned about the way the media is portraying him. >> you read high school, dropout. high school dropout. ed had an illness at the beginning of his sophomore year when his mother and i were going through a divorce. he missed 4-5 months of school. he asked if he could test into a program at the local community college. there was disagreement whether he should do that.

the bottom line he did. he completed his high school equivalence i he would have graduated from high school and he continued to take college courses. martha: we'll have more on the ex pliewlsive interview. the message he has directly to the cam what for his son. we have new questions this morning about the irs targeting of conservatives while higher ups say it was the rock of rogue agents in cincinnati. investigators are focusing on the roll of this woman. a seen more official based in washington who says she was in on the plan to give extra scrutiny to conservative groups. stuart, another wrinkle in all of this.

>> reporter: she was the top deputy to lois lerner. she handled 20-30 of these early cases where tea party people were asking for tax exempt status. she says there was no action on many of these early requests for at least a year. so there was clearly some delay at tea party exception status. she says she were waiting for guidance from d.c. it did go higher up the food chain. this is not a case of rogue agents in cincinnati acting out of turn. they were waiting for guidance from d.c. there is not a smoking gun. it doesn't point fingers outside the irs. but holly paz said it did go up

the food chain. martha: and it corroborates what we heard from if the folks in cincinnati. they said their jaws dropped opened when they heard what lois lerner was saying. >> reporter: we are waiting for the president. the administration is saying it's under congressional investigation so they are not saying anything. martha: the president said it will not stand and wouldn't be tolerated. we'll see what goes on with this investigation. we'll see you later. bill: the white house chief of staff grilled over the history of the government surveillance programs. >> let me just get on the record. does the president feel he has violated the five i of any american. >> he does not. you feel that has been taken

care of? >> ronald reagan used to say, trust but verify. but it seems the government may be asking us to trust it but they can't verify why we ought to trust it in some cases. >> i think you will hear the president talk about this in the days ahead. bill: the nsa plans to send congress declassified information regarding the surveillance program this week. that may happen today. it's been rumored two dozen terrorist plots have been thwarted because of it. schaeffer questioning the white house with federal workers being forced to take days off with no pay. is this the best use of taxpayer money? we'll play you more of that interview. martha: the u.s. decision to arm

the syrian rebels. some republican lawmakers are saying they believe the help comes too little too late. here is senator lindsey graham on this. >> russia is introduction into syria, sophisticated weapons. they could fall into hands of hezbollah. you have got rebels roaming all over syria. ak-47s will not neutralize the advantage assad has over the rebels. no boots on the ground is everyone's position including mine because the rebels don't want us in there. you can set up a no-fly zone by having aircraft and patriot missile batteries over jordan to neutralize the air power. martha: he said neutralizing the

air power is central to this fight. peter doocy is live at the white house. how far is the white house willing to go to help the rebels? >> reporter: we know the president is committed to giving the rebels in syria direct military support but nobody will say what kind of weapons the united states is going to give those rebels in syria and this weekend the white house chief of staff explained why there is a limit to the kind of help we'll give the rebels in syria right now. >> we have to be very discerning about what's in our interest and what the outcome -- what outcome is best for us and the prices we are willing to get to that place. we rushes a war in this region to the past, we are not going to do it here. martha: what us the response why lawmakers, are they satisfied with what they are hearing so

far? >> democrats and republicans said it's critical we make sure the weapons we send to the syrian rebels end up in the right hand so they can't be targeted against us down the line. but senator marco rubio says that will be tough. he says it's tough because he thinks president obama dragged his feet. >> now the strongest groups fighting against assad are al qaeda elements. they have become the best organized and the best armed. >> reporter: president obama is in northern ireland for the g8 summit. in 3 hours he will sit down with russian president vladimir mu continue. the russians have been a key ally for bashar assad for two years now. >> martha? >> peter, more on the background. civil war in syria now in its

third year as the u.s. estimates nearly 93,000 people have been killed. 1.4 million with fled the country and that put an enormous amount of pressure as that exodus is if accelerated on countries like jordan. last summer the insurgency had grown to an estimated $40,000. bill has more when we look at the map on this. bill: turkey has an influx of refugees. you are going to hear a lot of talk in a moment about the country of jordan. a long-time u.s. ally. up to a million refugee in that country alone. you have a long unprotected bored with iraq to the east. then you have iran hoping assad succeeds and maintains his power. but israel is concerned with the supply of weapons in syria being taken from this country to

hezbollah operating out of lebanon. so we are going to watch this thing, too. our next guest just got back from the region. kt macfarland. she'll give us more on what she is picking up on the ground. if it's too little too late, what then. martha: did the president drop the ball in terms of earlier action on syria? top republican senator marco rubio says we are facing the possible scenario in that country. bill: dick cheney was sounding off on the nsa leak and whether he sees a hero or traitor. martha: attorney general eric holder agreeing to come back and answer questions on whether he perjured himself on may 15 before congress. >> he is not the head of fish

and wildlife. this is the director of central intelligence. why would you not share that with the president of the united states. >> as we talked about it at the fbi and the justice department, we did not think we had a national security problem. if you're suffering from constipation, miralax or metamucil may take days to work. or faster relief, try dulcolax laxative tablets. dulcolax provides gentle relief overnight unlike miralax and metamucil that can take up to 3 days. for predictable relief try dulcolax.

bill: florida senator marco rubio says the path has failed in sending the syrian civil war. >> timing matters there these were options for us before it became chaotic. it behooved us to determine if there were elements we would work with that wouldn't carry out human rights violation. this president failed to do that. we failed to do that. bill: you just returned from israel. address senator rubio's point.

at this point it's a day late and a dollar short. did we have options a year ago, two years ago. we don't know. we certainly didn't identify them early on and we didn't help them. at this point they are so far behind that the syrian rebels -- that's not george washington. bill: why is it so hard to identify the good guys. >> they are weak and disorganized and they have been fighting for a year and a half. i wasn't privy to the intelligence. i don't think we ever had great options in syria. bill: there is talk of a no-fly zone. would you support that? >> what is our mission? what are we trying to do in syria? we don't like to and by and

watch chemical weapons being about used and a million and a half people being used as refugees. what is our objective? i look at this and say if you have got two enemies and they are fighting each other don't try to stop them. you have got on one hand the chemical weapons using murderous asaid. assad. and he has his rebels, the strongest ones are al qaeda. they are fighting each other. do we belong in the middle of it? i don't see how a no-fly zone dramatically changes this. bill: the reports suggest hezbollah ended their fighting. we have known that the extremists from al qaeda are fighting as well. do these two forces cancel each

other out? >> what can we do? we can't help the good guy rebels so they will defeat both those bad guy groups. i think we need to found out where the chemical weapons are. but as far as netting in the middle of a fight between the rebels and assad, i'm not sure if we belong in that fight. the israelis i talked to, journalists, military leaders and politicians, they say jordans is one of the keys of peace in the middle east. jordan is a country of 6 million people. they don't have a lot of water, natural gas or food. they have a million refugees. that's like america absorbing 35 million people.

bill: a reporter meets with vladimir putin today. maybe that will help. martha: someone who knows a thing or two about national security lashing outed a nsa leaker edward snowden. we'll tell you the things dick cheney said. bill: a little girl needs a life-saving lung transplant. is this the future under new healthcare. dr. marc siegel on why this may be the beginning. >> i'm so thankful for the donor. on this great day it's a tragic day for them and that's not lost on me. for her to live. somebody else gave her this amazing gift and we are just so thankful.

bill: the fan who took a line drive to the head is out of the hospital. this is hard to watch. bill: that's ball hit alex cobb in the right ear. he suffered a mild concussion. he's throwing what, 90 miles an hour. and the ball is coming off that bat at least that fast. you think how vulnerable a pitcher is after they release the ball. martha: you think of the helmet technology that happened in so many sports and those guys are so vulnerable. bill: he was tweeting sunday morning. martha: he was bleeding from that ear at the time.

another rough interesting session that happened over the weekend was with former vice president dick cheney as he sound off in an exclusive interview on "fox news sunday." he says the nsa leaker has put millions of americans in danger. >> i think he's a traitor. i think he committed crimes. by violating agreements, given the potion has. he was a contractor employee. if you he was granted top secret clearance. it's one of the worst instances in my knowledge of someone with security clearance doing damage to the united states. martha: while the leaks were news to many americans, mr. cheney knew of that program

since its inception. >> reporter: the former vice president says when you are telling the american public you are also revealing it to terrorists so there are reasons for secrecy for intelligence operations. he took us back to 9/11. >> when we set this program up in the weeks after '01 we briefed ranking members of congress. we did it in my office in the west wing. we gave them the layout of what we were doing and what we were learning from it. eventually we did it for the elected the leadership, both parties, both houses. >> reporter: he says the intelligence surveillance courts were aware of what was going on. and there was agreement to continue. martha: some of the most interesting part of this interview was the discussion of whether he believed that snowden based on what we are learning may have had help in all of

this. >> reporter: that's right. did somebody inside the nsa help him or was he on beijing's payroll. >> i'm deeply suspicious because he 20s -- because he went to china. that's not a place you ordinarily want to go for freedom and liberty. it raises the question whether he had this connection before he tid this. the other concern i have is if he had help from within the agency. is there somebody else in nsa who had access to a lot of this stuff and passed it to him. >> reporter: in terms of the threat to the u.s. the former vice president says when it come to somebody trying to snuggle a nuclear device into the country it's important to gather intelligence on your enemies and try to stop the attack before it's launched. martha: >> the thing that's interesting is when chris wallace asked him

how he's feeling. he had a heart transplants. he looked better than we have seen him in a long time. he says every morning when i wake up and put my feet on the ground, it's a day i thought i would never have. really incredible. bill: terrific interview by wallace. we'll hear more from dick cheney next hour. meanwhile, did he lie under oath. eric holder's controversial testimony about snooping on journalists. martha: massive wildfires to an official crime scene. why investigators believe colorado's record inforeign oh may be arson -- record inferno may be arson. >> we just want one thing. to go home with that we didn't know when we came in here. and we are not getting that. ny o thine customers!

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martha: u.s. attorney eric holder will answer questions on the u.s. surveillance of reporters. he has been asked to explain these comments he made under oath on may 15. >> with regard to the potential prosecution of the press for the disclosure of material, that's

not something that i have ever been involved in or head or would think would be a wise policy. my view is quite the opposite. martha: never been involved in and have never heard of. you watch those words. i'm joined by virginia republican randy ford who is on the house judiciary committee. that's the phrase that needs to be readdressed. it has been revealed that he signed off on those investigations. >> that's exactly true. here is the big issue. we know they have attested under oath that they had enough evidence to reach probable cause for mr. rose on get the search warrant. but that is also according to the director of the fbi the same burden of proof necessary to have arrested mr. reasons and charged him with a crime. how do they then say there wasn't even the potential of prosecution unless they had granted mr. rosen immunity which

we have no evidence they did that. or unless they have a blanket exception for anybody in the press that you can disclose anything at any time one you will never be prosecuted. those are the questions we need to have if holder. >> reporter: it appears the ant terks was up in order to get the judge to agree. we learned there were three different journals they went to for this warrant. there was a third one that granted it. perhaps the language had to be that intense to get the warrant but he says we never intended to prosecute. he says he never heard about that in terms of that. >> there is one with intent. but the other is you never had the possibility of prosecution. how can you say that before you had even gotten the evidence? it wasn't that they had to up the ante. the other judges that looked at this wording would never have granted a search warrant. the other thing that strikes me

when you read the report after they started to make an effort to tell his side the story in the press that they had a creeping sense of remorse. that doesn't line up with never having heard of or being involved along those lines, does it? >> it looks like the attorney general is hiring a publicist to do that. he gave him an opportunity to explain how he misrepresented things to the committee. he didn't even answer them himself. he sent back an explanation of why he didn't perjure himself. that's why we think it's important that he explain why he misrepresented this to the congress of the united states. he will submit and we believe it will be from his own hand. his answers to these questions by wednesday. but in terms of a personal appearance with all of you, that date is up in the air. let's take a look at some polls on eric holder in terms of the

political side of where he stands. should he resign as attorney general? 52% say he should resign. 34% say he should stay. 14% are unsure. let's go to the job performance if numbers. look at the change in these from may of 2010. approval was 36%. it's town to 28%. now 40% disapprove of the job he's doing. but no indication that things are changing in terms of his status in the administration. >> one of the big thing is not everybody is going to agree with actions the attorney general takes. but we have the right to expect that the attorney general will be truthful with the attorney general. you either believe he's going to deliberately mislead you or he's going to parse his words so much

that he is going to misrepresent you. i don't think it american people would appreciate that. martha: if he came before your committee and said we were concerned there was a security breach and we wanted to see the communications on both sides between this reporter and this individual work as a diplomat so we did pursue it and we needed to use yong language to pursue it. what do you think the reaction would have been? >> i think it would have had mixed reaction. the big concern we have now is we need to be transparent with the american people. we can't afford to misrepresent things to them. that's what the attorney general is making people the most upset about. martha: we'll be watching all of this with great interest. bill: you have another network that might be dragged into this, across the street. checking into their come outer. the white house under fire after

reports that his next overseas trip could cost taxpayers $100 million. martha: it's not something you see every day at the vatican. a blessing for thousands of leather clad bikers. look what mommy is having. mommy's having a french fry. yes she is, yes she is. [ bop ] [ male announcer ] could've had a v8. 100% vegetable juice, with three of your daily vegetable servings in every little bottle.

martha: a casino bus driver goes the extra mile and saves a woman's life. a woman in her 70s failed to show up for a regular trip. he made a detour to her house. he described what happened next. >> i banged on the door, the doorbell, looked in the windows and became concerned there was something wrong. a paramedic or firefighter answered the phone and said they had found her inside. she had fallen. everybody touches each other each way. i just took it a little bit further. he's being called a hero today. he says he's happy he went with his gut. he felt something wasn't right an wanted to check on her. that's a nice lesson for

everybody. bill: the white house defending the president's upcoming trip to africa. mcdonough was asked whether this is the best use of taxpayer dollars. report * "the washington post" reported the president's trip to africa may cost between $60 million and $100 million. is that worth it in a time of he questions traition when we have people working 4 days a week taking a severe cut in pay because of these budget cuts? >> that was a range of price tag on that trip is fully consistent with the kind of prices and costs we have paid for similar trips in the past, for republican and democratic administrations. the question to ask yourself is the one you just asked. is it worth it. it's important for the president of the united states as the

commander-in-chief and as the representative of this government pant american people to be able to travel to carry out our foreign policy. now, on the question of sequester. is it right reshould let the sequester sit in place? we should not. that's why we have been aggressively reaching out to underscore the tough choices. bill: we want to play the whole answer so our panelists can take it in. i don't know where you are on rich, the president, the first family, they need their security and protection overseas but i guess it comes back to the fundamental question of whether this is right. >> in the context of sequestration which the white house portrayed as bringing devastation act land. it's hard to put your finger on what the president and the white house has given up be even

symbolically. we are a first world country and super power. if we can't afford to send the president on trips that a sad common terry. in the scheme of -- a sad commentary. that's not where the real money is. it's in entitlements. the president is defending the status quo. bill: do you have a problem with the way bob cheffer aske cheffee question? the. >> it's based on probably what george bush spent. if that's what george bush was spending, why is it bad for the president to be doing this. bill: you don't see a controversy here. >> only for people look for things to criticize the

president on. the budget is not fungible. the president not going on this trip is not going to change the fact that there are people who are furloughed. it's not as though he can say home and change that situation. bill: nobody talks about the sequester. remember how it would doom america. >> it would be the thing to happen for the united states government and the economy and it's been barely a ripple. heads of state oftentimes make symbolic sacrifices even if they don't balance the budget right away. the president can say i am not going to take a vacation. i'm going to stop golfing. but he has done none of that. the trappings that come with the american presidency. michelle and obama were going to take a safari and there would have to be a sniper team.

when t.r. went to africa he carried his own gun and protected himself from a lot of animals. in fact the animals need protection from him. bill: 14 limousines, 3 trucks loaded with bulletproof glass to cover the windows of the hotel where the first family is staying. >> this is bigger than barack obama. if people are concerned about this they have to look at the travel of across net secretaries when they go overseas. bill: you set the example. you show people what you are doing and say this is how we are cutting back. can you give us one example how the white house has cut back since sequestration has cut back? >> they cut off the tours. pill * that affected the public.

>> they have made small cuts in the white house budget. the white house budget isn't that big. having worked during the clinton administration there is not a lot of cuts -- bill: it's example, though. >> the president can make some example? i don't think the president should top playing golf. he likes to play golf. it gets his mind off of things. i supported george bush going mountain biking. they should be allowed to do these things. >> george w. bush did stop playing golf at a certain point. bill: rich, can you think of one thing they cut back on other than tours that affect the public? >> there have been cuts. bill: kirsten be you find them and come back and tell us. >> every agency has to cut a little bit and they portrayed it as a as. i'm sure they cut back a little

and that's what had to happen and it hasn't been a disaster. martha: do americans trust president obama less because of all of the scandals that we have been talking about the last couple weeks? we'll discuss the president's credibility and look at some polls on that next hour. bill: bureaucrats discussing how the story of sarah may be just beginning. 7

bill: a look at a special and unique ceremony at the vatican. the pope blessing hundreds of bikers on their harleys. the american bike maker gave two

classic harleys to the vatican police force and they returned the favor. martha: there are growing concerns bureaucrats will have a much bigger say in your healthcare under obama-care than your doctors will, after president obama's top health official chose not to bend the rules for this little girl getting a lung transplants. first we want to talk to dr. mark seekle. dr., welcome, good to have you here this morning. you say when you step back from this sarah murnaghan story it's a sign we are in a brand-new world. >> reporter: sarah murnaghan represents children everywhere who may be faced with a situation like this. death or life-saving procedure.

chemotherapy drugs and heart drugs are scarce. we don't have all the medical treatment we need. who decides who get it and who doesn't. i would like to believe that doctors would decide. dr. samuel goldfarb in philadelphia said children should get adult organs. cystic fibrosis which is the disease that responds the best to lung transplants. but kathleen sebelius did not agree with that. she said i am not a physician but she is in a position to make these decisions and she wouldn't sign a waiver to allow young sarah to have a lung. we'll have more and more lists and committees and they are not going to be practicing physicians who know who should get something and who shouldn't. martha: that's the nature of taking medicine out of the hands of patients and the doctors and

having any sort of entity that's a nationwide entity. we used the word rationing way back when. a couple years ago. rationing isn't necessarily a bad term because we don't have unlimited resources. but who is doing the ration. i think this makes kathleen sebelius look very bad that she made the wrong decision and it bodes badly for the future. martha: very interesting piece you wrote this morning. >> reporter: it took fox news to bring this to our attention. bill: brit hume on the one issue republicans are warned about.

martha: the leaders from around the world gathering in northern ireland today for the g-8 summit, the war in syria and the growing u.s. involvement there is likely to be front and center in those discussions. welcome to a brand-new hour of "america's newsroom." i'm martha maccallum. martha: i'm bill hemmer. hope you had a great weekend, everybody. hours away president obama meets face-to-face with russian president vladimir putin in what is expected to be a tense discussion over how to tackle the matter of syria. russia is currently supplying weapons to the bashar al-assad regime and remains one of its strongest allies. western leaders including the obama administration insists bashar al-assad must go and they have said that for two years

now. martha: wendell goler is live there. what is the white house's real goal when the president meets with vladimir putin? >> reporter: martha the president would like to get vladimir putin to persuade bashar al-assad to agree to peace talks in geneva. the problem is and the pre-condition for the rebels to attend the talks is bashar al-assad must go. it's an arms race, the u.s. threatening to arm the rebels with more sophisticated weapons and russia sending more sophisticated missile defenses. the european leaders are not essentially on the same page as mr. obama. britain and france forced the eu to end its arms embargo. >> they are studying what you are doing. and they are wondering perhaps if northern ireland could achieve peace, we can too.

so you're their blueprint to follow, you're proof of what is possible, because hope is contagious, they are watching to see what you do next. >> reporter: look for the g8 to declare its support for peace talks in it's communications. martha. martha: what is rewadiaction to all of thirereaction in washington. >> reporter: for some republicans the president's position to arm the rebels is too little to late. they believe he's behind the curve since the start of the syrian conflict. some have been pushing for a no my zone, russians officials rejected the idea. they say syria's air defenses would make it improper anyway. they doubt the obama administration has a real strategy for resolving the syrian conflict. >> it seems to me they have a great media strategy, not a great syrian strategy and i don't believe any of our members, and we had both

republicans and democrats on the committee express concern about where they think we are today and where we think the administration wants to go. >> reporter: rogers did say he thinks congress would quickly approve a request to send arms to the serial rebels but the administration is concerned about the weapons winding up in the hands of al-qaida affiliated groups. martha: a lot of concerns as kt mcfarland was pointing out earlier. see you later. bill: a bit more on some of the accusations. the bashar al-assad said to have stalks of several nerve gases. vx is the most deadly and difficult to manufacture. it can cause loss of muscle control, problems with the nervous system, even death. blisser agents cause painful blistering of the skin and lungs, generally not lethal unless exposed to high concentrations. martha: meanwhile syria's biggest ally in getting a new leader is getting a new leader, rather and he is promising a new

era for iran. he is president-elect hasan rowani and he says he will follow a quote, path of mod der ration an moderation and urged his country not to be held back by past policies. he is considered the only moderate in the case and is vowing to restore diplomatic ties with the united states. israel remains very skeptical about them urging that the international community needs to keep up pressure on iran's nuclear program. bill: dick cheney defending the nsa's controversial surveillance programs. he was on "fox news sunday" with chris wall as. he says they have stopped terror attacks and saved lives. mr. obama singing a similar tune in defending the spy program but cheney says recent white house scandals make it hard for americans to take the president at his word. >> in terms of credibility i

don't think he has credibility. i have think one of the biggest problems we have is we have an important point where the president of united states ought to be able to say this is a vicious programvie program that is necessary and i defend it. but with all these scandals he has no credibility. bill: it's great to see you jonah goldberg, editor at large for national review and a fox news contributor. he said the president should be able to stand up and say this is a good program, it is saving american lives. i think he has come close to saying that, but only on one occasion. and it wasn't using the oval office or the east room of the white house, it was out on the stump. what do you think of that? >> yeah, i mean there is a strange dynamic at work here in that because of obama's u

unpopularity on the right among conservatives people like dick cheney think they have to come forward and shoeport the program among conservatives. there are a lot of conservatives and libertarians that are advertise trusting of the program because of the i.r.s. and benghazi and obama care and they just don't trust this president with that. i think dick cheney its absolutely right about that. he wants to keep the program going and he thinks it's a vital program. barack obama has the reverse problem is that all of the controversies, not just the nsa but all of them with the exception maybe of benghazi hurt obama with his base, and the more he defends these sorts of programs, the more he defends basically the continuation of george w. bush's policies the harder he's going to get hit in the poll, which we are seeing this week. the now cn, in poll has him at the lowest popularity level in years. bill: you're arguing he cannot insert himself into this and

explain it to the public? >> no-no no, i think that is his motivation. he is a remarkably absent president right now i think the "wall street journal" editorial page calls him. bill: who is flying the plane? >> he couldn't even get -- come out and defend his own syria policy. he had to have ben rhodes, an aide come out and do it. bill: why is that? wouldn't you expect that from the president? >> of course you would? and say, this is what we are doing, this is why we're doing it. don't worry, trust us. >> charles krauthammer has been making the point for ha couple years now about how president obama even though he order end the surge never once came out and defended his own foreign policy when it came to afghanistan and i think part of it is all part of the same pattern from the nsa on forward is that while bam pwhapl pwhapl babarack obama requires him to do certain things at

commander-in-chief he has a political by as against talking about it, defending these things because he wants to seem like an outsider who is a sharp break from george w. bush rather than a continuation of him. bill: you might be right. how in the world do you do that five years in with three more years to go? >> i find it bafflle baffling. he wants to sustain his personal popularity rather than doing the job as commander-in-chief. bill: tha popularity slipping as you pointed out. martha: colorado investigators are now calling the site of a massive wildfire a crime scene. the black forest fire as it is called killed two people and burned almost 500 homes to the ground. officials are now saying that it will be a while before residents are allowed back into that area. >> we have a crime scene in there. we have fire in there, we have

downed power lines in there, we have trees falling each time there is a gust of wind that are badly damaged. we have heavy equipment, bulldozers, firetrucks, water tankers constantly moving through the roads. so we are not even close to ready. martha: boy what a mess. will carr following this live from our los angeles bureau. obviously the authorities are looking at all kinds of angles on this. rao it? >> reporter: right? >> reporter: this fire has destroyed almost 500 homes and right in the middle of it all a potential crime scene now. we are told that state and federal investigators are trying to figure out who or what started this fire. they believe a person is responsible for igniting the blaze. it has cause so much devastation. what is unclear is whether it was on purpose. they are looking for any kind of evidence that may have survived and i can tell you that is not a quick process. in fact they tell us they looking at things that are as small as the roots of trees near

where the fire started. obviously, martha that is going to take some time. martha: what an investigation, look at the size of some of the homes that were taken in that fire as well. so how are they doing with the actual firefighting? >> reporter: well, you know, while they are doing this criminal investigation firefighters are moving from property to property, they are trying to knock down hotspots and doing just about everything they can to make sure that it is safe for residents to return. >> i don't want people to get this false sense of security because they look up there and they don't see a plume of smoke. it's still not safe. >> reporter: the sheriff who you just heard from says that right now safety is paramount nor everybody. thousands of residents are simply waiting to go back into their neighborhoods to see if their homes are still standing, or if their homes have been one of the hundreds to be destroyed, but since there is that criminal investigation and there are still questions about safety authorities are asking for everyone's patience right now. martha: they'll need a lot of

it. will carr, thank you. good to see you. bill: you were right about dick cheney, i mean 72. martha: he looks well. bill: having gone what he has gone through he had more vigor on sunday than we've seen in some time. 72. martha: absolutely. and the transplant that saved his life. bill: yes. this is me? new warning from top republicans, senator lindsey graham, what he says could hand between his party and the white house in to 16. we'll tell yo 2016. martha: the nsa putting its money where its mouth is they are sai set to release the list of the confidential surveillance program. bill: while one agency official at the center of a controversy is coming forward as the critics, speaking of dick cheney, slam the tax man. >> i think it's one of the worst abuses of power imaginable when you think of the power of the

i.r.s. and it clearly was used for political purposes to go after a particular category of organization. so... [ gasps ] these are sandra's "homemade" yummy, scrumptious bars. hmm? i just wanted you to eat more fiber. chewy, oatie, gooeyness... and fraudulence. i'm in deep, babe. you certainly are. [ male announcer ] fiber one.

bill: extreme weather out there town pours triggering major flooding in the state of missouri. springfield seeing ten inches of rain in only hours on saturday. that is going to leave a mess. food waters rising quickly. a flash flood warning for the area for the first time ever. unfortunately more rain is in the forecast and a flood advisory still remains in effect for about another hour in missouri today. martha: south carolina senator lipped see graham is warning that republicans will lose the white house he says in 2016 if g.o.p. lawmakers block immigration reform this time around, watch this. >> if we don't pass immigration reform, if we don't get it off the table in a reasonable, practical way it doesn't matter who you run-in 2016 we are in a

demographic death spiral as a a party, the only way we can get back in good graces with the hispanic community in my view is pass comprehensive immigration reform. martha: brit hume is here, fox news mit alanalyst, good morning, sir. >> good morning. martha: is he right about that? >> that's the convention sal wisdom in washington and has been since the election. i think it's grossly overstated. for all the importance the hispanic vote represented in 2012, or was said to have represented the hispanic vote was 10% ever the electio the the electorate. the republicans only get 3% of that, democrats get 70, that's 7% average points. you're talking about a difference of 4%. in a close election that can spell the difference. what happened to the republicans in 2012 is they didn't get all of their vote out the way the president got all of his vote

out, and that in my view is the difference. i think it does matter who they run-in 2016 when they pass immigration reform or not. the politics are very different in congressional district and within states for senators on this issue. remember, mitt romney carried a majority of congressional district. and if republicans engage in passing a bill that is seen by their base as being a soft on border enforcement and another amnesty, they are going to have trouble themselves getting reelected. they are not fools. so this issue depends to some extent on how you look at it. yes the demographics are important and yes over the long term if republicans are in bod bad order with hispanic it's going to hurt them. but it's not that big of a

matter to be the fulcrum as lindsey graham suggests. martha: some would argue that it's growing and their influence is growing and to ignore them would be a tpaoupblg error. huge arrest or. i don't think anybody represents this better than marco rubio. he has withheld the answer as to whether he would support legislation that he helped create at this point. >> there is a reason for that, martha. the reason is that the border security provisions in the senate bill will be hard for republicans to swallow. the belief is that it's not strong enough, and the measurement by which you determine when the border security piece of this is in place is too vague and weak. and as long as that's in play, as long as that's in place in that president form there is a good chance this bill won't get out of the senate. there is even a chance that marco rubio who was one of the sponsors of this original proposal will end up being against it.

if that happens the whole thing goes down. so this may not even end up in the house where obviously resistance to any kind of what would like like amnesty is strongest. martha: absolutely. another thing i find really interesting in this legislation is that it changes the dynamic, because you hear so much about in the d.r.e.a.m. act and the early discussions of this bill is that people brought in by their families should be able to say that the families should be allowed to be together. much of what they are pushing for here is to change that and bring in people who have the right technology background and who bring something to the table in terms of the economy and that is more important than the family question in some ways. >> that's right. and we had a family-based immigration system and now we're looking nor something that is more practically based in terms of benefit to the country, which i think is a wise move and there is a huge slice of american business that wants this. they want this because they want the high-tech workers who are trained in this country and in part of because of our immigration regulations end up going back where they came from or somewhere else rather than

staying here and benefitting our economy. and there is also a need for part time workers, seasonal workers and so forth, it's some unwield deand cumbersome now the way we have it. there are a lot of good arguments for this measure that have to do with benefitting the country which conservatives to some extent of responsive too. but conservatives are very afraid this being tagged another amnesty and having no penalty and no sufficient reason to believe that we are not going to have more and more of these immigrants pouring across the border in some unrestricted way and that's what scarce them politically and with good reason. martha: before i let you go real quick if you can. what is the over under on whether or not we get a bill at all out of this. >> i think they'll cobble something together in the senate although that is not guaranteed. the question becomes what happens in the house. speaker john boehner would like to have tpao one bill in the end that he could go to conference in the senate with if the house passes, but the committee in

charge of this looks like it will go for this piecemeal and that is not at all clear how that can be worked out. what i would say about this martha the chances aret pretty good in the senate, not so good in the house but we have a very long way to go here. martha: it sound like. it thank you very much. see you later. bill: good analysis. new concerns for the rollout of obama care when the i.r.s. could mean for the new healthcare law, did you know. for the first time we are hearing from the father of the nsa leaker edward snowden. you'll have only see it here on the fox news channel, his heart-felt plea to his son is next. >> i believe in your character, i don't know what you've seen, but i just ask that you measure what you're going to do and not release any more information. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup

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martha: a tough texas mom hailed as a hero after fighting off a carjacker to save her two children. dorothy baker is her name. she said she was loading her kids into the family minivan when a man popped up in the back seat of her car, he was hiding there and wielding a knife. she struggled with him and managed to throw him out of the car. on the way out of there she accidentally rhod rode over him. >> you don't come after people with kids and i told him he messed with the wrong -- witch. i took my fist and i hit him in the face. and i told him to get out of my car. i didn't mean to run him over, i was just trying to stop him so he didn't hurt anybody else. martha: good for her, she did a great job. he is hospitalized, he has back injuries but he's going to apparently be okay because he will face criminal charges when he's released, what an amazing job she did of protecting her

family. they tell you to look in the car to make sure nobody is in there when you get in. in this case somebody job. scary. bill: the i.r.s. scandal to threaten critical funding for obama care. the president urging a huge increase for the agency to help oversee the program. they say it is out of the question. steven moore, good morning to you. your congressional sources tell you what about this? >> a lot of people don't realize that the i.r.s. is really the enforcement arm of this new obama care law, and it requires billions of dollars of new funding for the i.r.s. to do the enforcement to hire all the people that are necessary. by the way, bill i counted almost 50 new regulations, rules and taxes in the obama care bill that are all now under the

purview of the i.r.s., and what the republicans are telling me on the house side, bill, is they have no intention whatsoever of funding that i.r.s. mechanism especially given the scandals of the next new weeks, and if that doesn't happen, bill, that means this bill could be crippled in its ability to be implemented. bill: it's already law, right? how can you not fund it if it's already law? >> well, bill let's not forget the congress has the power of the purse in this country. if the republicans basically say we will not fund the enforcement mechanism for this bill there is no way to put in place the law, and that's one of the ways republicans are really looking at trying to undermine this law because as you know republicans have voted in the house two or three times already to repeal it. this may be a back doorway to repeal that law. again, bim i think the reason this issue has legs us because it comes in the background of awful the abuses taking place at the i.r.s. bill: now you know why the

i.r.s. can spend $1.4 million on convention. fiscal year 20 12? 10? the president wants 13.3 billion for fiscal europe 2013. advance it one time. that is an increase of $440 million for the i.r.s. and healthcare to bring on an additional 2,000 new employees. that is what the law mandates. >> that's right. one other statistics if you look over the next ten years the i.r.s. is in charge of collecting about one trillion dollars of -- i was going to call them fees but remember the supreme court called them taxes and that's what they are. this is also a big tax collection effort by the i.r.s. to fund obama care. i think this might be the find of issue that brings this law down, or especially brings it into the spotlight in front of -of congress. the president doesn't have the authority to spend this money if

not appropriated by congress. bill: sarah hall ingram is in the middle of all this mess with the i.r.s. in cincinnati, she was supposed to run all this. >> that is a big problems. the republicans know who this woman is. do you think they want to fund a new agency at the i.r.s. that is being headed up by the same person who was in charge of all the abuses that took place? i don't think that is going to happen. bill: they call that a sticky weubgt. steven moore, strang you, "wall street journal," we'll talk to you later in the week. martha: we heard their defense but by the end of today the nsa may reveal exactly how many terror plots they claim this controversial surveillance program prevented, but it is all in the details on this one, folks. bill: also, two illegal immigrants with criminal records now accused of killing two police officers. why opponents of the immigration law say that scenario is a very big problem. >> that was a death that should

have been prevented, it did not have to happen. this is outrageous. people are dying because ice is not being allowed to enforce the law by this administration.

bill: we are getting breaking news on this nsa story set to

release a full list of terror plots stopped by the agency's phone surveillance program, that disclosure expected to come today. house intelligence committee mike rogers over the weekend insisting that the program, something he knows a lot about, the program is a good thing. >> it is absolutely over seen by the legislature, the judicial branch and the executive branch has lots of protections built in. you can see just the number of cases where we've actually stopped a plot, i think americans will come to a different conclusion that all the misleading rhetoric i've heard over the last few weeks. bill: peter brooks a former cia officer and a senior fellow at the her teenage foundation. peter how are you? good morning to you. i thought i saw 21 as the number of plots disrupted, does that number sound right to you? i've heard dozens. that might fall into dozens, two dozen, right in? i've also heard more than 20

countries. we are talking dozens of plots interrupted in more than 20 countries. that will be directly related to the nsa surveillance program. bill: is that what you're saying? >> are that is my understanding. we'll have to see what general alexander says this afternoon. people will be listening. it's always hard to get credit for things that don't happen. when plots don't happen, here at heritage we keep a tally and we've had more than 50 islamist-based terrorist mother in this country since 9/11. most people couldn't name those. i couldn't name all 50 either. we remember the boston marathon bombing, 9/11 h fort hood, there are so many others that are stopped and we don't want to throw away a program that perhaps is preventing those other 47 from happening. bill: you wonder, you know, what could replace it that could do a good job still and keep us safe? you mentioned keith alexander, the nsa director. i've heard everybody speak in very glowing terms about the

work this man does and we are not here to impugn him in think way, but we'll wait when he come out with his word later today. here is the problem the story has been out there for two weeks and we've been told about one plot, just one, and that was here in new york city. >> fair enough, bill, that is a very good point. we have to be careful about the exposure of intelligence sources and methods. i mean, this thing came out by an individual who, you know, cloaks himself in the garb of a whistle-blower. i look at it very differently. he's exposed a very sensitive intelligence operation. we don't know what information we've now missed because of the exposure of this program. of it also comes at a time, you know, the i.r.s. scandal, the rifling of reporters' emails, the benghazi bungling where people's trust of government isn't very good. so it's gotten caught up in all of that. bill: one after the other. >> hopefully general alexander will help clear the air this afternoon about the importance of this program. bill: thank you, peter. you make a good point it's hard

to get credit for the things that do not happen. >> absolutely. bill: peter brooks. thank you. martha: edward snowden's father is speaking out in an exclusive interview with eric bolling. here is a piece of that. >> we love you and we want you to come home. we want you to be safe. we want you to be happy. but i know you're your own man and you're going to do what you feel that you have to do. i believe firmly that you are a man of principle. i believe in your character. i don't know what you've seen, but i just ask that you measure what you're going to do and not release any more information. martha: he's asking him not to release anything else. fascinating interview that we've seen some pieces of this morning. snowden is thought to be somewhere in hong kong. if he is found an extra dieted to the united statedieted to

the united states he could face trees on charges. more of that interview later. new developments in a long-running american mystery, the f.b.i. once again searching for jimmy hoffa's remains. the teamster boss was kidnapped in 1975 from a restaurant parking lot in bloomfield township in michigan, his body was never discovered. now investigators are trying to determine if he may be buried nearby. once more eric shawn joins us on the search. one of these days they will be right, eric. >> reporter: martha you know it is the most enduring american murder mystery in our history, what happened to jimmy hoffa. as you can see right there the f.b.i. and local authorities in michigan have started the latest efforts to find his remains. he was the labor icon who disappeared from the parking lot of the bloomfield hills red fox restaurant on july 30th 1975. you're looking live at what

investigators are doing. they are digging in a rule field that is in oakland township michigan after a reputed mob boss, under boss claimed that hoff in a was possibly buried there. the tip comes from tony zereli. he is 85 years old. he does admit he was in prison at the time of hoffa's disappearance. this is the latest effort to try and find hoffa. other digs have included taking up driveways, excavating a horse farm back in 2006 with no results. the most promising lead was found in our exclusive fox news investigation in 2004. we broke the story of frank sheraan, a close friend of hoffa. he told me and his biographer, his former lawyer that he shot hoffa in this detroit house near where hoff in a was last seen. we went to that house, we look up the floor to look for blood evidence and hired investigators to spay hraoupl tphol that detects the evidence of blood.

fox news found the exact blood pattern on the floor that fits his story precisely. indications of the blood were in the foye r and he said he shot him in the head and his body was dragged down the hallway and taken to a funeral home to be cremated. it's possible that hoffa could have been shot in that house and maybe not cream phaeulte cremated but buried in a plot. the f.b.i. will let us know if they find anything very shortly. martha: thank you, we'll see. stay tuned. bill: they said they'll find him eventually. maybe. martha: eventually, maybe, unless he was cremated and that might make it more difficult. bill: right. there are new developments in the i.r.s. matter, the targeting of certain political groups. what a former supervisor says that she did that contradicts

everything the agency has told us so far. plus, check it out, roll it. >> are he steps back for three. bill: big night on the river walk, martha. martha: sure was. bill: san antonio beat the miami heat at home last night they that i can a 3-2 lead in the nba finals. game six tomorrow night. the spurs roll on, the heat looking for revenge.

bill: breaking news from the high court, u.s. supreme court moments ago striking down arizona's voter id law. this had to do with the motor voter registration law. that has been struck down. it would require would be voters to prove they are u.s. citizens before using a federal registration system designed to make signing up easier. 7-2 was the vote to throw out arizona's voter approved requirement that voters document their u.s. citizenship in order to use a registration form produced under the motor votes registration law. 7-2 the ruling from the u.s.

supreme court. more on this in a moment breaking news from the supreme court right now. martha: and there are also stung new details on the scandal surrounding the i.r.s. and its targeting of conservative groups. a former i.r.s. supervisor, based in washington, she is pictured there, now admitting that she was personally involved in scrutinizing some applications from tea party groups that were seeking tax exempt status. holly paas is her name and she told congressional investigators that she reviewed up to 30 applications and that contradicts initial claims that a small group of agents in cincinnati were solely responsible for mishandling the applications. jay sec ooh louisiana joins me now, chief counsel for the center for law and justice. good morning to you. >> good morning. martha: she says she was involved in some of the initial stages of trying to figure out how to handle the cases and that there was back and forth between washington and cincinnati. what else do you see in here?

>> well, first of all, i'm holding letters from holly paas. when everybody was saying this was cincinnati i have been saying from the outset there are people in high levels in washington d.c. involved in it and i have the letters from holly paas with her signature on it that is number one. number two based on her statements it's confirming what we knew, once the agent in the cincinnati office received a tea party application he just sent it up for review in washington, and washington basically took over the whole operation and they thought the agents were going to implement what washington said, but the agents said they heard nothing back from washington and now we have confirmed with holly paas' statement that nor 13 months washington thought this was an implementation going on in the program and the field thought this was an implementation program going on in washington d.c. i have a really simple question for holly paas, when i take her deposition.

did anybody pick up the phone and call and fade out why this was happening? this whole lecture we've been given by the white house, by the i.r.s., about the rogue agents, and this was unfortunate and we apologize, it's showing as the evidence continues to come out this was a well planned and coordinated attack. there is a consistency here of inconsistencies, they can't keep their story great, martha the a the end of the day. that is the biggest problem. they change it every time there is more information. martha: jay, the biggest picture is was there any connection. holly paas says there was no connection between president obama, or anybody at the white house during this program. it remains to be answered, though, what the impetus was for this program, and, you know, sort of whether or not the i.r.s., senior i.r.s. officials were guiding it for a political reason. you know, folks would say there is no evidence of that so far. >> yeah well there is evidence that i think is pretty significant and that is the

13-month period where this was no action by the i.r.s. at all coincided with the 2012 election cycle. no action was taken on any applications during the election season for the presidency of the united states, number of one. number of two i don't think there is a memo from barack obama as the president of the united states to the secretary of the treasury or the i.r.s. officials saying this is what i wanted to do. we are filing an amended complaint with another 15 or 16 plaintiffs. we'll be up to about 41. we'll find out when we do the discovery what took place during these 159 meetings that the i.r.s. commissioner had with the white house. we want to know when the conversation -- we do know it took place at the white house about how to get ahead of the inspector general's report, why the chief of staff knew, why the white house counsel knew but the president was never informed by his lawyer. the lawyer representing lois lerner is the former law partner of the white house counsel? you don't have to be a detective to figure out. there may not be a this is what i want you to do i.r.s. memo.

martha: the tone was set for -- from the top, and i think there is compelling reasons to explore that. >> that's how it works. martha: and that's what you're going to do. very interesting development. jay, thank you so much. we'll see you next time. bill: ten minutes before the hour now and watch this too jon scott is coming up "happening now" a couple of minutes away. jon: we are up in ten minutes. new and surprising revelations out about nsa spying on americans, breaking news on the extent of the surveillance programs as we await alleged evidence of plots foiled by those programs. plus, many of the journalists who made a lot of noise during revelations of national security snooping back in 2005 have suddenly gone quiet. why? we'll ask that of our news watch panel. and you think the constitution isn't equipped to deal with some of this new stuff? we have a guest who begs to differ. what would george washington do? we'll talk about it on "happening now," "america live" is back right after this.

bill: new controversy threatening to dominate the immigration debate. two illegal immigrants with criminal records are accused of killing two police officers. william la jeunesse live on the story out of l.a. what happened here, william. good morning. >> reporter: who stays and who goes. when it comes to criminal aliens the house and senate answers the question differently. the house says any felony you're out. the senate bill more lenient especially if they have a wife or child in the u.s. >> 4 you have a previous history of illegal entry into the country. i'll leave your bond at no bond. >> reporter: police believe illegal immigrant drunk drivers killed cops. >> i'm finding probable cause that you're not legally in the

united states. >> reporter: jesus molina they say killed an officer in a hit-and-run. despite convictions for burglary and other crimes he was not deported. >> that is a death that should have been prevented and did not have to happen. >> reporter: they say accused driver andre munoz killed sheriff bill polk. >> it is believed you are here illegally and immigration has a hold on you. >> reporter: critics say too many criminals get a day in court instead of deportation. >> this is outrageous, people are dying because i.c.e. is not being allowed to enforce the law by this administration. >> drunk driving needs to be treated as the crime that it is, a alcohol-related, substance-abuse related crime. not something related to immigration. the two are wholly unrelated. >> reporter: the proposed immigration bill allows for that discretion. illegal immigrants with lengthy criminal records may be allowed

to stay if they have a spouse or child already in the u.s. >> these are real human situations and they require human decisions. >> the bill gives all kinds of discretion to an administration who has thoroughly abused that discretion. >> reporter: the house begins to debate on immigration this week, bill. they have mandate for interior enforcement the senate does not, so that will have to be worked out in committee. bill: thank you. more to come on that story. martha: there is a new move now to close gitmo. what the obama administration is now doing that could revive the efforts to shut it down. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] every inch. every minute. every second --

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