this advice. >> neil: ben, until his next best seller. thank you guys very much. cost of freedom continues. ♪ ♪ >> david: are we so focused on what is happening in syria we are taking our eyes off the syria stuff at home? like the fact that the number of u.s. households receiving food stamps hit another record high. despite an unemployment rate that is following, something that they say things are getting better. if that's the case, shouldn't fewer people need food stamps? are we making a case that people are too dependent on government? let's go in focus with john tandy, rich unger, rich karlgaard, sebringna schaefer. and elizabeth macdonald.

rick are we becoming too dependent? >> this is a national tragedy for the blue collar employees. the core problem is we have a tax and regulatory structure punishing employers hiring blue collar workers. chevron is taxed at a federal and state combined rate of almost 44%. meanwhile, 30 miles away in silicon valley, google and apple with very few blue collar laborers, google is taxed at 10% combined and a it at 15%. there is a disparity right now that is great if you're a white collar skilled laborer in the economy but horrible if you're blue collar. i don't think the federal government rizes how it's punishing -- realize how it's punishing the companies. >> david: just before we started the program, you and i were talking about with were

poor at one point and never would have thought about going to welfare. now middle class kids are doing this. >> the real question is in the question asked. yes, more people are going back to work. yes, food stamps are at an all-time high. >> david: isn't there something wrong with that? >> no, it gives you the answer to the question. people go back to work in jobs. somebody is laughing but a guy working 40 hours a week, and is not making enough money to support the family and needs food stamps, i don't find anything the tiniest -- >> david: emac, the fact is people like rick and i used to issue any idea of government assistance making far below the qualifying amount that you need to now get in to some kind of welfare program. >> you and i used to talk about how we used to do the s&h green stamps on saturday morning with our father and our mothers.

i do worry. the poor want a job. they don't want welfare. >> the u.s. economy is still in the custody of the obama administration. they did the wrong thing at the worst time. meaning the recession of this in the u.s. gigantic bureaucracies that are putting a lot of companie companies. they have a bunch of other reform. the problem also, too, is that the stigma is getting lost on food stamps. that is scary as well. >> david: john, i hope emac is right. people still prefer a job. i filled out a form from benefit department of the new york city government. i am a single guy making $10 an hour. what we start out. am i eligible for anything. i got a long list of what i'm eligible for in terms of welfare. i wonder whether we reach the

point that makes more sense not to work and rely on government welfare. >> i don't think so. i'm an optimist. look at reagan years and the clinton years. americans love prosperity and they're happier when they are working and they have the opportunities. i think what the times show us is that government is expert at wrecking an economy. through spending increases, overtaxing us, overregulating us through obamacare the make it impossible to hire. they know how to create poverty. they were happier when the economy was growing. >> the fact is as the unemployment goes down, i know it's going down because people are pulling out of the labor force. but obama administration is taking credit for it. but if that's, so why aren't more on food stamps? >> no question that the obama economy created growth in the number of people collecting

disability, food stamps and unemployment for a year. but the dilemma is how to be compassionate without working incentive. prosperous people like everybody on the set should dip in their pocket and welfare allotments should be actually greater. >> david: what? >> however, the worker requirements for all the programs should be greater. right now; obama administration is moving in the other direction and trying to weaken the work requirement. it's easy -- >> david: to bill's point there are states that are trying to do that. in ohio, the such governor of ohio, john kasich said able-body people receiving food stamps need to work for the food stamps. do you think on a state level it could gain traction? >> i do. the supplemental program, snap, tripled in size.

we spend $70 billion a year helping support 47 million americans. that is one out of seven americans on food stamps. how do we help these people or make sure that americans have the basic in terms of the food and shelter and clothing? the government steps in and makes us a country of dependent people, this clouds out society; synagogue, schools and neighborhood who traditionally are better equipped to help those in community in need. >> the bigger the welfare system becomes, the bigger the food stamp rolls become the more fraud there is. fraud picked up 30%. >> this is a self-perpetuating monster. where are the high-paying blue collar jobs missing in the economy? you find them in energy production, administration and shipping. in manufacturing.

i'm not saying that the industries should be subsidizedded. i'm saying they should be unshacklalled. under the same regulatory umbrella and tax structure. the companies providing the blue collar jobs are the taxable industries in the united states. is it any wonder the job disappeared? >> but the fact is, sticking on food stamps. we talk about the expanding roles we talk about expanding fraud. we had a case in arizona people used the food stamp card for trips to hawaii. >> it has been happening for years. >> david: but it's pickingp now. >> i'm with you all the way when it comes to fraud. i wish we'd spend time debating how to end the fraud on we do in a false argument -- >> david: we did in clinton organization and we reformed welfare. this president won't reach to the republicans -- >> it may have more to do be the timing.

people are going back to work, they are not paid enough money to survive without it. >> ehear what you are saying. we have a flat tire of the u.s. economy where the u.s. government is throwing banana peel in form of rule or barbed wire taxes for companies that create jobs. we want to help the poor, get them a job. >> we agree we are a better community, better country when the folks don't want to take welfare. that is the problem. the spirit of america i think is being destroyed. coming up next, five years after the last financial bubble popped, new worries that the fed may be created a new one in the stock market, itself. could you be running for cover? we tell you details coming up. a.

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live from america's news headquarters i'm kelly wright. race against time in colorado. rescue crews searching for dozens of people unaccounted for. at least four people are dead. the flood leaving entire towns under water and the nightmare is far from over as the state awaits more heavy rainfall today. well, a deal reached on syria's chemical weapons. after nearly three days of talks, secretary of state john kerry and russia's foreign minister saying they reach an agreement for syria's arsenal of chemical weapons to be removed or destroyed by 2014. president obama threatened the use of force in response to chemical weapons attack that killed 400 people last month but it seems this move will avert any possibility of immediate u.s. military action. i am kelly wright. i'll see you again at 1:00 p.m. eastern. now back to forbes on fox. >> david: well, as the buddy

yogi berra said, "it's déjà vu all over again." five years ago this weekend, financial meltdown hit when lehman brothers went bankrupt as the housing brother blew up. many blame the bubble on the federal reserve, keeping interest rates artificially too low for too long. the fed is at it again. keeping the stimulus rate low with stimulus plan on steroids. could it cause another bubble about to blow up. this time the stock market itself? >> i think we are at a risk for a bubble. but they don't know to bring it in real estate or the stock market. if you see the stock market closed 140 points up there is a ten depensy to jump in. there is a false sense of security with the business market today. you see neiman marcus being bought. and people think everything is okay but they don't think about the fact obamacare will

be implemented in the few month. it will wreak havoc. >> john tandy if we believe that greenspan caused a bubble keeping the interest rates lo low, what does bernanke do? he is greenspan on steroids. he didn't keep it at zero and he didn't buy up the government debt the way bernanke is. >> this is a horrifying money to rob it from the soul purpose. >> david: that means that printing up a lot of phony money to buy government debt. >> that i don't think is driving a stock market bubble. if investors buy stock market they buy user dollars. that is devaluation of the dollars. if the fed wasn't holding it

back how much higher would it be? fed is the problem. >> older folks who are afraid to play the stock market don't have anything to do with money. now you put it in a bank account and you lose money because of inflation. >> you need a microsoft to look at returns. they are so small. to john's point, if the money is away it will get devalued because the value is dropping. it will get hurt. that is changing the number of ounces in a pound when the dollar is hurt. fed is in state of emergency. economic hype con dryiac. they are -- hypochondriac. but i'm not sure that the stock market is in a bubble. trading on a basis at half of the dot-com era. >> david: rich, i don't know about that. a lot of people don't feel like it's a bubble but most people make money off of it. >> emac is right.

roughly fairly valued. maybe slightly overvalued now. the currencies are dropping fast. capital leafing the country. the interest rates are low. what do we have left? american stock market. the profits are high. i am wary about september and october. history says they're volatile months. i don't think i would pour new money in, nor would i get out. >> getting back to the folks who want to save money. if you want to save money. if you save it by putting it in the bank. you are losing money right now. the savers are killed. people that are nullerrable. >> i'm caution with

enthusiasm. do you remember them talking about dow 36,000? we're not there yet. >> bill, are the artificial low rates pushing people in the stock market? >> the fed is playing a game that is asset bubble. you give people illusion of wealth reprising their houses higher and making the stocks go up. the houses aren't bigger than they were before. the company they invest in aren't more productive. this works to a modest degree. stocks are overpriced. maybe by 15%. greenspan, they were overpriced by 100%. bigger then. >> david: but the fact is bernanke is doing a lot more to cheapen the dollar than greenspan. interest rate is zero. >> they exist in a different time. i don't know why you aren't

talking about the fact that the corporate profits are good. isn't that what the stock market is good? >> no they are firing people. employment number is high. hold on, sabrina, this is an important point. the revenue that is coming in, not why the profits are increasing but the corporation are squeezing the operations. >> this is why we have to be cautious. >> obamacare is going in full effect in january. this will cause tremendous strain on the economy and businesses individually. so while the people might see big headlines that excite them, they don't realize just what is in store for 2014. >> david: we have to go. by the way, rick, you are laughing at obamacare. it's keeping a lot of business people up at night. >> i hear obamacare is responsible for syria. and vietnam. >> david: it's a big impact -- >> and world warii. >> david: billboard from conservative group claim the healthcare law is hazardous to

your health. the grocery store chain trader's joe is proven right. that's at the bottom of the hour on "cashin' in." but first on "forbes" trying to help housing deceiving homeowners is worth more than the house. is the best thing for housing? leave them be. that is next. woman: everyone in the nicu -- all the nurses wanted to watch him when he was there 118 days. everything that you thought was important to you changes in light of having a child that needs you every moment.

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>> david: so-called fix for housing that some here say will just make it worse. city council members in richmond, california, passing the plan to seize underwater mortgages, loans that are

worth more than the actual house. they say this will keep people in their homes and help home values. number of other cities across the nation are considering doing the same thing. but rich, you say this is all going to backfire. how? >> well, rich monday gets the idea from the neighbor berkeley, which is havana on the bonthe bay. this is foolish. the only way you get a mark of recovery is if you let the prices drop to natural level. there is money in the bay area that would invest if it found the natural low price. >> david: this is a pie in the sky idea that won't work? >> they get their ideas from berkeley and let's face it, not many cities across the country like berkeley. it's 100,000 people. i don't think we are in danger of this catching on. won't have an impact. >> david: but there are other cities following this. >> this is magical science fiction thinking on part of a

poor city that taxpayers will have to foot the bill for the bad policy. democrats rejected this idea in congress. a lot of democrats said no, don't do it. you know why? litigation lawsuits are going to hit this city. also, banks will never lend to anyone in that city again because of the really bad policy. >> john, we were talking before about what america perceived as. self-perceptions are important. the people who aren't paying the bills are rewarded. >> it tells the irresponsible buy a house you can't afford because you'll be subsidized by prudent who don't buy that which they can't afford. it's terrible for housing. it will drive investors away from there, which is probably good but don't do it. >> david: will it help or hurt the housing problem? >> hurt. i sympathize with the mayor and city council in richmond, california, or stockton because when you have increase in foreclosures, increase in

abandoned homes, increase in decay and crime, these are problems for cities but we have to stop bailing people out and stop propping things up and stop buying. this is a fool's errand. we have to let the price fall to market value. >> david: on the other hand, nobody likes the bankers. they say they are the only ones that will suffer here. >> but the bankers do own the mortgages. this is how it's structured. politicians are seizing private property at gunpoint and handing it to their friends. this will work exactly as well as it worked in the economy of zimbabwe. >> david: if you like zimbabwe you'll love this plan. coming up, investors and consumers disappointed with the apple newest iphone. no worries. the informers have the companies and the stocks that will not let you down. stay tuned. at od, whatever business you're in, that's the business we're in

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♪ ♪ >> david: we are back with stocks that will never

disappoint, let's hope. emac, i don't know how to pronounce the stock. it has a weird symbol. >> try to say this ten times. really strong mid-cap companies that invest have solid double digit return over the past year, in the last five years. i like this one. >> david: bill? >> class act, low turnover, low expenses, a great return. the only thing i would say against it, you know, you could skip it and buy a stock like rosche holding. >> david: you have to have a $2,000 as a minimum investment to get. in clean harvard, this cleans up stuff. >> cleans up gunk. a lot of that around. maybe they will expand it in china. there is an infinite market there. >> do you like it? >> i like it. choppy revenue. it has a dirty balance sheet with a lot of debt. richly priced before hurricane sandy, which a company stepped in to clean up after events like that. i still like the stock. worth watching. >> david: we haven't had any hurricanes. they profit f of other people's misery. we have to have more misery.