>> and that is all of the time we have left this evening. as always thank you for being with us. hope you have a great weekend. >> when we see people dying from them c chemical weapons we want to do something. we can stop children from being put to death. >> this is not a time to be silent spectators to slaughter. >> the danger is clear. the world has said this aggression would not stand. >> there is evidence now we must act. >> other politicians push back. >> they shoot back and what do we do? >> we do not know yet who the good guys are. >> now most americans oppose intervention. >> should we bomb syria? >> absolutely not. >> no, i don't believe we should bomb syria. >> i think we cannot go to war

again. >> do people know where syria is? >> i don't tell you where syria is on that map. >> iran. >> egypt. >> that's israel. >> who will stop thailand if not us? >> bomb, bomb, bomb. >> should we be the world's police? that's our show tonight. >> i hate bashar al-assad in syria but i want him stopped. but i also hate what tyrants do in south korea, china, russia, the congo, other places. when should america intervene. what is our responsibility as the world's biggest super power? congressman steve israel says syria is a special case because they use chemical weapons.

congressman, that makes all the difference? >> no, it doesn't necessarily make all of the difference, john, but it makes a big difference when you have weapons of mass destruction capabilities in iran, when you have american troops on the border with north korea and a pathological regime that is watching what is happening in syria and may conclude if it is okay for syria to use chemical weapons it is okay for syria to use chemical weapons. or you have elements within syria who can now acquire and hijack those chemical weapons capabilities because he has drawn them all out. >> don't these countries look at rwanda where half a million people were killed and also say americans didn't intervene there. why is the line here? just because your president said i draw a line? >> not at all. i support the prior payments

when it calm to nation nap seblg. >> we should not be the world's police but we should always protect our interest. while we make believe we have a moral interest in standing against the kind of murder we saw in sere yea it is not just that. it is the risk of proliferation. it is the risk of weapons of mass destruction falling into the wrong hands. if diplomacy fails and i hope it won't, if it fails we have a core national interest in making sure that chemical weapons cannot proliferate from syria and other countries. >> should we bomb iran if they acquire nuclear weapons? >> i believe if iran acquires nuclear weapons we should use all of the weapons in our toolbox. i have said clearly and sufficiently that military options should be reserved if iran on announces it has a nuclear weapon because an

iranian nuclear weapons capability changes the middle east and threatens our interest and interest of the entire world. >> i am skeptical on what we can accomplish. you want to run education and healthcare and now international affairs. say we pound sand like clinton did in libya. that's not good. let's say we kill the leader. how do we know the next group is better than assad? let's say we kill innocent people we make new enemies. so much we can do to make things worse. >> we had an experience in afghanistan they morphed into a group called al qaeda and the taliban. >> what do you think will be different? >> i am skeptical about arming one side verses the other.

we are talking about a military operation that is confined and contained to degrading the regime's chemical weapons capacity. >> not just to stop the regime but to stop those chemical weapons they can do because they are drawn out of the stockpile. it doesn't have anybody from the capability. you want to say you want to kill people you better use conventional pep ones. what happened in the aftermath of august 21st. chemical weapons are weapons of mass destruction because they inflict mass casualties in a short period of time. which is why when chemical weapons were used the world was appalled. we said we wouldn't allow that

to happen again. >> thank you congressman israel. chemicals make it difference. all wars are awful. he sports the military strike but the public turned beagainst him the latest poll finds 68 percent of voters say we have to stay out of syria. this is different from what i am used to in my reporting career. i didn't see this kind of opposition say when the first president bush said america must go to war against iraq. >> the world has said this aggression will not stand and it will not stand. >> the danger is clear. >> when the second president bush wanted to attack iraq again the senate vote was 77 to 73 to authorize the use of force. >> the joint resolution passed. >> instead of drifting along toward tragedy we will set a course toward safety.

>> he set a red line against any one who used chemical weapons. >> i didn't set a red line, the world set a red line. >> unbeliefbly small effort. >> there are other countries behind us. >> there are a number of countries in if the double digits who are prepared to take military action. >> we have more countries prepared to take military action than we actually could use in the kind of military action being contemplated. really? let's debate that with a former lvn lieutenant commander in the navy he has family members in syria. he wants the u.s. to intervene now. we should have already intervenes. hunt said no we should not. we support the moderates and bomb the facilities.

>> there is no other solution, john. this is a regional conflict that is no longer a civil war. it is tipping forward in the right direction that border our ally israel. you can see the current environment in syria promoted al qaeda and the moat vicious. who can help prevent genocide. >> we prevent it by launching attacks? >> you have a popular up rising. we have millions of syrians smoothered by the help of russia and iran and military trained history by the soviets. we ample them give they are space on the ground and it will give them room to tip syria in this opportunity in the rye direction. >> a two-week operation.

kernel hunt? >> we are arming in communications gear and fox to al qaeda. up to 25 percent of the forest that is on the rebel side is al qaeda and the month of brotherhood. how is it possible on the day after the 12th anniversary of 9-11 we are now assisting al qaeda. this is a conflict. it should not get in one side has hezbollah and russia the other side has al qaeda. this is not in our national interest. we cannot be in a third war in 12 years. >> i assume you agree with senator john mccain who says this is not al qaeda. there are moderates in syria who we should help. >> there are moderates. syria is a moderate nation. >> there is on the ground they talk to family in damascus. there are millions of assyrians part of a local coordination

committee that are part of helping. al qaeda at the most 5-10,000. you have islamic lib grayings front that is not our salihs. if thr there as path of jihad they are not our friends. the government left in egypt. even in egypt the majority of muslims grows up against the brotherhood. that is going to happen only post assad. i would ask kernel hunt he is under assad if you wanted to de fete them it would have been post assad. >> if if is only 10 percent. if it's one percent, united states of america cannot, although we seem to be doing it by now, be season as supposeen supporting one side which has al qaeda and the other side we are nighting hezbollah. the first thing that happens is

it is a tragedy what's happening in syria. all of a sudden killing a child with gas is worse than dropping a building on us. 120,000 killed. now because of gas we want to get in and what we are getting in on is the al qaeda side? >> in america the american media can't agree on who is a moderate in our tonn congress. how do we know in syria. some don't speak air lick. the models who are there fighting their passion. on the ground we have had a number of con twakts in the days of the local committees to want to open up society as part of

the roerl making. it is billions you want. i am so hurt to hear me media friend he has become a post environment and therefore legit lies the emergency law means liberty american asset for custody. only fast forward in the middle east. >> i think we are reacting over hearing going into iraq. welcomed with open arms is liberating. if they don't get it from us, john, they are getting it from saudi arabia. vers if we want to those who work in the declaration of human

rights. no one else in this world is doing a darlin' doctrine. the good guys will never have a chance no matter what we do. >> there is no question they are moderates on that side. it is a great country. there is no question. but you cannot have the united states of america army elements. we are getting our head that strong hi. more control over who is going to take over if assad is willed. it is our national interest now or never to get involved in the civil war. considering what we have been doing for the last 10 years. the history is it to help the people wush shans in began sfan.

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♪ john: who is more eager to go to war? republicans or democrats? >> republicans. >> republicans. >> i think the republicans. more wars. john: i would have thought that. over syria it has been mostly democrats. polls show more democrats than republicans support a military strike. is this hypocrisy, liberal and conservative changing their position depending upon who is president. no says historian thaddeus russell. what do you mean? >> this is a progressive war. i mean that the ideology of progressivism, which is about 100 years old as always said, we are obligated to uplift and save the world, not just in the ghettos, but outside our borders. anywhere we find the oppressed. we must go out and save them.

john: democrats started most of the wars. world war one, woodrow wilson, world war ii, fdr, harry truman, the korean war, kennedy and johnson, vietnam, bill clinton, cosimo, somalia. >> that is exactly right. progressivism has been an imperialists ideology for mr. beginning. john: in my lifetime at least it is democrats have dominated the anti-war movement when george w. bush asked congress to approve the use of force the bill passed. but it was democrats who said things like this. >> vote no on this resolution. thank you. [applause] >> when i looked out over this crowd today, i no there is no shortage of patriots or patriotism what i do oppose is a dome war. john: what is the difference? >> what happened was that in vietnam progressives who were originally usually supportive of the intervention in vietnam saw killing millions of people in

that case and became wore a fight. by the end of their ideology, the consequences of it, and for a brief moment in history turned against intervention. and also because they did not trust the policymakers to lead those words. john: now barack obama is president. i trust myself. this is a good cause. >> one of the things we have been seeing is a return to their of original interventionist imperialists truce. john: mostly republican supported the iraqi war. we have a long list of republicans who have changed their position on that. i think we are rolling in here. first the senators and in the congressman and in some other well-known republicans. this is not hypocrisy. >> not at all. the so-called neocons who drove us to war actually all began in the democratic party. they all began as progressives.

great heroes. woodrow wilson, teddy roosevelt, the great progress is in history have been consistent and not hypocritical. this supported intervention in iraq. they are supporting intervention in syria to do the same. we are seeing is so interesting. the convergence of what is called the neoconservatism. what i say is neoconservatism disney -- neither new nor conservative. they're fundamentally progressive. they're finding their natural allies him what are people all progressives. john: at least this time the majority is not going along. >> that is good. john: i agree. i am puzzled most by the media which everybody i have known as been pretty leftist and mostly anti-war. and yet the media often seem to be leading the charge, at least at first. chemical weapons, look at this picture. it is terrible. we must act. i would think that ms nbc would be the left channel, the most

anti war, and it has done so much. let's go to war cheerleading. >> edges to not think that the world can sit idly by and watch innocent children be gassed to death. >> it's basically like put down a red line and sit-down use chemical weapons. then he goes ahead and blatantly does it. >> the most powerful words came from 10-year-old, a message ceases she had for president obama. she was these kids to be like us. aren't we just like them? when we get bigger we are going to write obama did not help us. john: we have to attack or we are letting children die. >> ms nbc is finally understanding who they really are, what progressivism really is and always has been since we invaded against spain in cuba and the philippines through world war one, career, it has been progress is to have killed far more people in this country. john: they don't just want to

invade. what is the philosophy behind it? >> they ultimately want to remake the world in our image. that is what they have said. that is what progressivism always has been about. remaking the people in the ghettos in our image many elite white americans and remaking of the united people of the world in our image as well. john: as you say, domestically it goes well beyond that. we can make education better. we must run education, health care. we must police the work force. we can make everything better. government can do that benignly. >> that's right. it is uplifting the poor and oppressed through the means of the state, through that monopoly on violence. domestically that is taxation and law-enforcement brought for military force. very consistent. john: no matter how often it fails, they continue to support that. so thank you. coming up, what does the constitution say? and the president without congress justify?

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beck doesn't know that much either. it ought to keep us humble says the author of your fatwa does not apply here. she grew up in algeria and she said neither side knows what they are talking about. let's start with the left? what do they get wrong? >> the important thing to know is people are standing up to fundamentalism. and the left is sometimes too politically correct to understand the danger of fundamentalism or listen to the people doing the brave work. >> what do you theen they are too politically correct? give me an example. >> an example would be some on the left have been trying to embrace things like failing or like the imposition of the shirea where as on the ground in fact people are challenging all of those things. i think some on the left of the u.s. do that because some on the right have spoken out in a discriminatory way against the

shirea and against veilings. >> you are a creature of the left you have worked for the center of cons duingnal rights and amnesty international. you say amnesty international got cozy with the former guantanamo detainee who supported the taliban and was close to supporting terrorists? >> well, amnesty international a lot of work against torture and the death penalty which i support. i disagree sometimes as an employer about their close relationship with a man. he was detained in guantanamo without charge or trial. i think it was right to oppose the way when he got detained but amnesty got him judging poetry competitions and so on. he was a jihad sympathizer and had been in and out of jihad training camps. they spoke out against the organization. i believe that was a wrong

decision. >> we called amnesty international the sinter for constitutional rights decided to represent the interests of ann war al can i who was on the u.s. kill list because he's a terrorist. >> the center for constitutional rights has done extremely important work to defend human rights in the context on the war on terror but they choose to disagree with them when they supported him for free. he was at large in yemen at the time. they represented him then because he was put on a kill list by the u.s. government. they were calling for assassinations and in fact the sermons were used to use the inspiration even later at his death for the boston marathon bombers. i am saying speak out against the assassinations but not do it by standing up for somebody who

himself was advocating them. >> he supported assassination of women, he praised the fort hood killer, the one we called the center for constitutional rights they said look we were protesting the drone strikes. what is the right wing get wrong in your opinion? >> the right -- some on the right get things wrong here as well. some on the right have justified for example the use of torture in the context of the war on terror which is just wrong and against our values and also makes muslims feel like they are victimized which is something that plays into the hands of jihaddyes who are trying to recruit. the right wings sometimes uses chris cripple tory language when they talk about muslims especially in the last few years to hear some of this in the tea party. wh that is wrong and takes away the space from people like me who are proud of their muslim heritage and also trying to be critical of the extremistextrem.

>> your solution is government shouldn't get involved civil society should? >> well, i think both government and civil society can play a role. first and most important thing we have to stop supporting fundamentalists and i think many americans would be surprised to learn that many in the region think we have been doing just that whether it is supporting the muslim brotherhood after they came to power in egypt and tunisia as well. >> and saudi arabia where women can't drive we would call that a moderate government. coming up some americans say instead of bombing people we should win the hearts and minds of foreign aid give to school give money. we have been doing that. how is it working out? >> [ male announcer ] frequent heartburn? the choice is yos. chalky... not chalky. temporary... 24 hour. lots of tablets... one pill. you decide.

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but i am not isolationist when i want to help people who need help, people who are oppressed and poor. how do we best do that. most people say foreign aid is the answer. the singer bono used to believe that. bono used to stop concerts to tell fans western government can end poverty. >> we have the resources and we have the know how to end these extreme conditions. >> angelina jolie said it is possible if america would spend more. >> we see solutions. >> what they didn't think about until recently is there's a big difference between government to government foreign aid and people like jolie going to the third world and trying to help directly. bono realized the best way to help people is to allow capitalism to happen. he recently surprised me by

saying aid is just a stopgap. commerce and entrepreneurial cap tailism take more people out of poverty than aid. if the singers can get it why can't our politician? chris coin wonders about that, too, he says we should stop all foreign aid that americans billions in humanitarian aid is doing bad by trying to do good. that is ruffle the title of his book. what do you mean? >> they provided humanitarian aid there's a fundamental gap of the intention of doing good and helping those in need and the results are hard to harm in help. >> when you inject millions if not billions in foreign aid into an already corrupt dysfunctional society it further politicizes life and it fuels corruption and

allows regimes which already terrible and dysfunctional to sustain. it creates a dependency problem. those individuals become dependent upon handouts. without any means of further widespread development they rely on continued handouts from other good countries and government. >> we give people good and that helps people with their own food they give it to government they steal it and it corrupts people. gaven stan got more than 15 billion in foreign aid but the gep was only 26 million. it has to be distorted. >> a report by the world bank indicated 97 percent of afghanistan's gdp is a result of aid and spending by foreign

occupiers. the problem here is that if those donors ever leave the country either the occupiers or those trance psfer stops there little genuine sustainable economic activity within afghanistan such a ordinary afghistans are suffer. >> the amount of money must be phenomenal. there was military officials who told congress they had blooks of hundred dollar bills. this is 100,000 dollars here that were just around the office. they were tossing them like footballs. entertain themselves. much of that money disappeared. >> the best estimate we have in iraq is vanished it is stolen and disappeared.

they have no idea how it went missing. this is the problem with aid there is a lack of accountability and responsibility. one of the basic cllessons in le is you have to have consequences to your actions. when it comes to billions of dollars we don't hold them to the same standard. they waste the money. it's not there they don't incur the cost of wasting other people's money. >> bono figured it out we should help them become self supporting capitalis capitalists. thank you chris coin. if we go to war what are the rules? can the president bomb whoever he wants? that's next.

>> says here this is the constitution. if america goes to war congress should declare war. congress never declared war on korea, vietnam, grenada, pentagon, iraq. afghanistan iraq the second time or libya. what's up with that? we also kill people with drones and yemen, pakistan other places without a decoration force. what is going on?

judge napolitano says politicians just ignore the war. >> politicians ignore the constitution, john. first it is great to be here. politicians ignore the constitution and write their own laws. they wrote the resolution the federal statute over president nixon's veto. it says the president can fight any war he wants for 90-days he can go back to congress for funds and authorization for 90-days. >> he wanted more power. >> correct he thought it restrained him. it liberates president with all of the words you nicely picked off all which were fought libya, yemen, pakistan, iraq, b afghanistan, bosnia without a declaration of war. no one challenged the statute as being against the constitution. >> every president uses it. >> how come eblgd not have gone to the supreme court? >> we have two very difficult

obstacles to challenging federal stat tuts. if it is a dispute between the president and the congress both of whom are elected each of whom are elected vie boby voters. both will say it's a political dispute. it is for them to resolve or us to resolve. a cause and a constitution that says you can't just challenge a statute, you have to have standing the challenges. standing means you have personally been armed by the operation of the statute. they would ohher have to come over here and challenge the statue. night likely going to happen. >> they would say you can't do this or it hasn't been challenged? >> it hasn't been challenged. congress likes it it's off the hook. >> you don't like it. >> i don't like it. >> people who believe this means

what it says the constitution don't tliek but all presidents from ronald reagan to barack obama love that statute because it let's them wage many wars without competition. >> the president said even though i possess the authority to get a military strike i believe it was right to take this debate to congress. in 2007 when he was not yet president the president has not had power to authorize a military strike. >> somebody -- nobody is pointing out this hypocrisy. he is right under the law. he is right under the constitution. excuse me. he is right under the law and wrong under the constitution. but under the constitution and the treaties we have signed we can't fight any more. we can only fight a war if we

are attacked or asked to come to the aid of ally. if we have a rule another country has been agreed to. >> none of this applies to syria. >> when the president bombed libya he said this is different from the hostilities condemn plated in the war powers act which i am restrained. this is not sustained fighting or akty fire with possible forces. i would think bombing people is like going to war against the country. >> of course not. the answer you said there will be no boots on the ground. when somebody says that you have to ask what they mean. boots on the ground means people in uniform. did we have americans on the ground? cia who never wear aun form. are we killing people?

defect on a war you don't know what it is. he made the decision when he was on spring break. when congress came back to it look the other way khaddafy is a bad guy. the president is the president. >> for a long time presidents did what they wanted to. there were very few challenges. i have a feeling now with the tea party and growing libertarian movement there's more of a whans where people will start looking at this and start saying. >> we have been de veeting the most recent rational parts of our careers it is a delegation to authority of the government. it is not an experiment. it says what freedoms we will give up for the common good. when they operate outside of the constitution they ignore the law of the land.

that is nod what we elected the government for? what will protect us from the government? >> thfdz supposed to. if it was not written in the language it might inflew epps people today. we are out of time. thank you judge. i am told libertarians who say that. i recent the people who say that. i will explain why. >> this is not the same or arm chair sensationism. i love having a free checked bag

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>> did you know senator rand paul was an idiot isolationist because he wants to cut barack obama not an inch of slack. that's according to a journal in the beat. the isolationist worm eating its way through the gop apple. america's secretary offer state says... >> this is not the time forearm chair isolationnallism. >> give me a break. isolationalists means they don't want to kill people in foreign countries. peep who didn't attack us want to draw away from the word. they fought to keep refugees who were trying to escape hitler

from trying to come to america. isolationalists oppose international trade oppose immigration. that is nuts. we lib baertarians are not isolationists we want people to be engaged every where. let's tourism flow. let us pray. a history fact set up a report sunday the by several arms, conflict two decades ago and trade as a reason. maybe that's why i smile when i travel and see adses like these. (speaking foreign language)

we also export our ideas and culture. i don't claim this will end conflict but what's more likely to win hearts and minds of young people, cruise missiles may be killing their cousins or lifestyle shown on american television. >> it is harder for radicals to demonize people who make you laugh. when the soviet union fell conservatives say it happened because of ronald regulaagareagd up. so does 98 bruce swing speet. 750 tho

750,000 people came to sing along. springstein stopped the performance he hopes one day after all of the barriers have come down. springstein wasn't responsible but the obvious comparisons between osoviet oppression and america's vibrant culture played a big part. our market economy them wanted what we have. these cultural and economic influences work and they don't radical i'd people lie killing their neighbors. also they won't bankrupt us the way more can. go nate quilled withd ins. they expose isolated peoples to the wonders of the free world. there are time when is we have to go to war. this is not one of these