fri day you friday you may it is 8:00. i'm michelle dewberry this is dewbs& co week ladies gentlemen are live from southampton. good evening south hampton . yes it is indeed still hampton. yes it is indeed still 2022. i think we've still a conservative government all today you've been paying close

attention the autumn budget. you be forgiven . i say it for be forgiven. i say it for thinking perhaps we didn't have a conservative budget after or why.7 well, we've got the highest tax burdens now in about decades what on earth is going on. so tonight we're going to get into entire thing. i want your thoughts. i want the audience and i want my panel's thoughts. so before we get into exactly what went on today , let's go what went on today, let's go back to thomson for our latest headlines. good evening . headlines. good evening. michelle. thank you. here are the from the gb newsroom. the chancellor's delivered plans to get the economy back track as he acknowledges the uk's already in recession . as part of his autumn recession. as part of his autumn statement , recession. as part of his autumn statement, hunt has reduced the threat held for the higher rate of income tax from threat held for the higher rate of income tax fro m £150,000 to

of income tax from £150,000 to just over 125,000. the pension benefits and tax credits will rise in line with inflation by more than 10. a million out of households will pay more in energy bills from april the bill rising from two and a half thousand pounds to 3000 as the government reduces level of support and energy firms will be hit with an expanded windfall . a hit with an expanded windfall. a 35% up from 25. the chancellor has vowed to protect the poorest and believes his plan will help the economy. what we do with our plan , stability and our plan for plan, stability and our plan for growth . the office for budget , growth. the office for budget, which is an independent organisation . they say that what organisation. they say that what doing will reduce the impact of that fall in living standards by half of next year. so we are helping every bit as much as we and we're also saying to people that as we do that we're protecting the public services really matter. the nhs schools

the things that are going to help us get through the other side and become a really strong dynamic economy , which is what dynamic economy, which is what we all want . following the we all want. following the statement, shadow rachel reeves accused the conservatives of failing to learn decisions made over the past decade. this government has forced our economy into a dream loop where low growth leads to higher taxes , lower investment and wages with a running of public services , all of which puts services, all of which puts economic again and instead of learning from the mistakes of the last decade, they're simply repeating . we need to break from repeating. we need to break from this vicious cycle of with fairer choices and a proper plan for economic growth . the office for economic growth. the office for economic growth. the office for budget responsibility says household disposable incomes are heading for their biggest fall on record as . the tax burden on record as. the tax burden hits its highest since the second world war and a fresh set

of forecasts. the opr that once rising prices are taken into account people's . incomes would account people's. incomes would drop by 7% in the next two fiscal years. the government's forecaster also says that livingston orders won't recover to last year's levels for another six years to now. and nancy pelosi has stepped down as speaker . the us nancy pelosi has stepped down as speaker. the us house of representatives . her representatives. her announcement comes after the democrats lost the house to the republicans in the mid—term elections . the republicans will elections. the republicans will swear the new speaker in january next year. nancy pelosi will stay in congress as a backbone lawmaker and with great confidence in our caucus, i will not seek re—election. two democratic leadership in the next congress. for me, the come for a new generation to lead the democratic caucus that i so deeply respect respect . the deeply respect respect. the royal college of nursing says it will announce strike dates for

december if . the government december if. the government fails to open up detailed negotiations on pay . last week, negotiations on pay. last week, members voted strike at the majority of employers across the uk. they asked and campaigning for a pay rise of 5% above the rate of inflation . meanwhile, rate of inflation. meanwhile, ground handlers at london's heathrow airport will begin a 72 hour strike from tomorrow in a dispute over pay. the unite union says the action is by workers at. aviation services firm . it'll affect a range firm. it'll affect a range airlines and disrupt a number flights from terminals two, three and four. royal mail asked the government if it can cut its letter service to five days a week, putting an to deliveries on saturdays . it's after the on saturdays. it's after the business on veiled losses in the first half of the year with strike action heavily on the firm and further walkouts expected in the coming . parcel expected in the coming. parcel services would, however,

continue to run every of the week . a dutch court has week. a dutch court has convicted three men for the murder of 298 people when shooting down a passenger over ukraine in 2014. the convicted are two russian former intelligence and a ukrainian separatist leader. they'll serve life in. in addition to this have to pay at least life in. in addition to this have to pay at least £14 million in compensation for role in the downing of malaysia flight mh 17 tv online a b plus radio. this is gb news now it's back to michelle in southampton southampton . southampton. thanks for that. thomson well, as i was , i am here in as i was, i am here in southampton and live with you right through 7:00 this evening, keeping me company is my panel.

the policy , laurie laban and the policy, laurie laban and emily carver, who is the head of media at the institute of economic affairs . and yes you economic affairs. and yes you might have noticed , i have might have noticed, i have a wonderful studio audience today. we do love it when we're out and i am with the good people of and i'll be getting their thoughts as well. let me start with my panel briefly. this whole kind of budget, autumn statement, whatever we want to call it. your summary on the whole thing , laurie. and by the way, in case you're wondering, we're going to play it tonight. we're going to play it tonight. we're going into of it going to get into of it specifically taxes, the pensions all of it in the next hour. specifically taxes, the pensions all of it in the next hour . give all of it in the next hour. give me your overall thoughts, laurie . so we heard a lot about how bad the world economy is when ukraine and so on. we've heard lot, obviously in recent weeks about how bad the mini—budget was . what was missing . a bit of was. what was missing. a bit of honesty about how bad last 12 years have been when it comes

their investment in this country . yesterday's cuts are two days long waiting lists are the problems with our economy that are holding back the growth and the prosperity that we need right now. the is a perfect example of this years now the uk the government this government has chosen not to invest in it as much as it probably and that's particularly in the case of the kit that . the nhs needs of the kit that. the nhs needs to make sure that it's driving good patient outcomes keeping waiting lists low and so on. the bill the unmet maintenance . bill bill the unmet maintenance. bill i s £10 billion and we still find is £10 billion and we still find ourselves in that situation today with the autumn budget. anyone who knows runs a small business. many of them. many small businesses here in, southampton knows that you need to invest to get the profits , to invest to get the profits, the future. it's the same thing when it comes to our economy and government, a big role in that. and those cuts that underinvestment is leading us into the difficulty we find

ourselves today. going to ourselves in today. i'm going to convey summary. was convey your summary. it was a miserable budget, wasn't it.7 he said that we weren't going to be any rabbits pulled out of the hat. there weren't. he said that everyone going be paying everyone was going to be paying more and it looks like more taxes and it looks like everyone yes, benefits have everyone is. yes, benefits have gone inflation . yes. gone up with inflation. yes. pensions but for the pensions too. but for the ordinary working person . there's ordinary working person. there's nothing in there really .7 got a nothing in there really? got a phone already? it's only 10. that was very much . that was . that was very much. that was. yes. get your phone on, everyone. right. sorry yes. so miserable . not much there for miserable. not much there for the ordinary person or the ordinary business to make things a little bit brighter for. i mean, what a change since is mini budget that did turn out to be a car crash, but at least she wanted to get this going. at least she wanted to make some reforms that could actually change this country and us more prosperous . it seems that we're prosperous. it seems that we're back to penny pinching abacus

economics thinking oh, if we can tax this person little bit more, we might get down debt. i think that there should have been much more of an emphasis on growth and i think the labour party you know they could give them a right kicking because there wasn't well i guess that's source of my panel. i want to throw out the good people of south very pleased, south hampton. i'm very pleased, by think was by the way. i think was someone's reminding someone's alarm reminding themselves they're supposed themselves that they're supposed to here celebrating tonight's to be here celebrating tonight's event with also i appreciate your efficiency say but let me ask for a show of hands everybody who in this room and a laugh why i ask it because i think there might not be many people boss over there optimist who in this room is happy with what was in the awesome budgets there must be at least one person in this room . anybody? person in this room. anybody? i found one. can you stand up ? can found one. can you stand up? can i get a microphone to you? which is not. please, i'm that sir. stand up. tell us your name and tell me why you're happy

tonight. i'm my name is ola. the is. i am a conservative voter. i'm a tory member. but i think to be fair, we've got to pay for the deficit and the alternative is labour cannot anything i think in terms of fairness and being responsible with with with our money with the taxpayers money think that the chancellor has done something okay you as a conservative we don't want ei taxes. but the truth that the economy is going down the and somebody has to fix. economy is going down the and somebody has to fix . so for me somebody has to fix. so for me it's okay. okay well yeah. he says the economy is going down the drain the way according to the drain the way according to the epa. we we're officially in recession as we speak as well. does anybody agree with that perspective, anyone else filling optimistic not that optimistic say it's not that hard , it? your hands up, hard, is it? get your hands up, get involved and else quietly

optimist ? rick, if get involved and else quietly optimist? rick, if you're listening on the radio wondering what on earth is going on, let me you, much me tell you, pretty much everyone the room is not everyone else in the room is not optimistic . so assume, optimistic. so i assume, therefore you've got your hands down and not optimistic. so who will the hands up and tell will put the hands up and tell me what are you feeling me why? what are you feeling today? shy. this will today? don't be shy. this will be very long show indeed. but be a very long show indeed. but there you good as a chap, the second on the phone. you second ref on the phone. can you stand get a microphone. stand up? can get a microphone. so me why. what are you so tell me why. what are you feeling today? and i don't . it's feeling today? and i don't. it's so important the sort of sebastian by the way, i don't think so important the think it's so important the of meddling percentage points meddling with percentage points here one thing that here and there. one thing that was completely vois any sort of direction cutting regulation direction of cutting regulation and easier for and making business easier for people it's really hard to set up business in this country. up a business in this country. it's really easy move that it's really easy to move that business somewhere else. the tax code itself is incredibly long. some it's longer than some people say it's longer than the bible think best way the bible i think the best way to going, to make to get growth going, to make it easier people set easier for people to set a business. right. well there you go. the was almost so go. now the price was almost so that i want to say it. a real

mixed bag in, but that would make me a liar because there's not much at all. the general sense of this , at least, is that sense of this, at least, is that people are not optimistic with what was in that autumn statement today . what about you statement today. what about you at home? are you there shouting at home? are you there shouting at your screen ? pick me, at your screen? pick me, michele, pick me. well, i would have thought and if you'd have come here and put your hand, wouldn't i? but if you are optimist, take i want you to tell me why. i want a bit of good news today. ritchie and said with rain. said it's pouring with rain. michel please, can you brighten up spirits? so if you up our spirits? try. so if you are optimistic and in, search me and why. likewise. you and tell me why. likewise. you know not, get in know what? if you're not, get in touch gb views at is my touch to gb views at is my e—mail and you can tweet me at gb news. so i'm going to give you a couple of minutes to gather your thoughts. an gather your thoughts. send me an email and i will be straight back and what i get, what i want to get into when i come back is the whole thing about tax sales. i mean, it's almost laughable, quite i mean, it's almost laughable, quhe you i mean, it's almost laughable, quite you got quite frankly, that you got a tory government the highest

tory government with the highest tax burden in 70 years. what a mess . i'll tax burden in 70 years. what a mess. i'll see tax burden in 70 years. what a mess . i'll see you tax burden in 70 years. what a mess. i'll see you in a couple of minutes .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me. michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight with my panel policy research , laurie laybourne and research, laurie laybourne and emily , who's the head of media emily, who's the head of media at the institute of economic affairs, also may have noticed you keen eye view is that i'm also joined by a studio audience the delightful people of southampton are good. amy i have been asking you thoughts tonight on this autumn statement. i going to remain optimistic. i sure that people are out there

that are happy tonight . i have that are happy tonight. i have to be honest. i've not yet found you. you didn't come into my inbox over the two minute break, i'll give you the opportunity you like and you think can see self or shall i shot email? yes because i want all the perspectives tonight. are you someone who is sitting there going stop with negativity, michel. celebrate the goodness if so tell me then what are these goodness people like? steve, for example, says a mess someone else says doomed doomed, doomed . we all know on the fence doomed. we all know on the fence there , warren says, michel , love there, warren says, michel, love your red sox . there, warren says, michel, love your red sox. i do there, warren says, michel, love your red sox . i do appreciate your red sox. i do appreciate there is a cost of living crisis , but i can actually afford shoes. , but i can actually afford shoes . these are not socks. shoes. these are not socks. these are right . let's give these are right. let's give both. thank you for your observation nonetheless. right. let's get into the tax situation then shall we this whole thing then shall we this whole thing the way if you're wondering how we. oh yeah a class upon my boots on the street street if you're wondering by the way how

we ourselves in this situation in terms of the tax tax hikes sorry , spending cuts. well it's sorry, spending cuts. well it's all about, isn't it? there's sorry, spending cuts. well it's all about, isn't it? there' s £55 all about, isn't it? there's £55 billion, so—called black hole . i billion, so—called black hole. i want to start with you, by the way, emily do you even believe that concept? because there's been a few economists out there are saying we don't even really this hole . it's all down this black hole. it's all down to the way the accountants done. in your mind, do we have a hole? did we need this budget today? well, got big deficit well, we've got a big deficit and a national and we've got a huge national debt made worse by debt. and that was made worse by the lockdown, which, of course, when rishi sunak spent billions and billions and billions, while most of the economy was shut down and people were paid at home. that choice that's home. that was a choice that's made debt far worse . and, of made the debt far worse. and, of course, jeremy hunt, who we all was very pro, a chinese was very, very pro, a chinese lockdown at that point, too. so these are things worth remembering on fiscal hole itself. it's very much up for debate, as you say. some people are wondering whether an are wondering whether it's an overexcited it's overexcited oration. it's overstated . could it be that it

overstated. could it be that it might be far smaller or that we can spend more time filling it? it's hard to . say i would have it's hard to. say i would have liked to see more emphasis trying to get more tax payer revenue in through boosting investment in this country , investment in this country, through boosting economic growth , that sort of thing that will bnngin , that sort of thing that will bring in longer term, more tax revenue . instead of clobbering revenue. instead of clobbering people and having this short term view on trying to please the markets, keep other things steady in that way, please. the obr, please. the bank of england. but what about everyday citizens. about loss ? citizens. what about a loss? what let me told you what about them? let me told you about specifically like about taxes specifically like i was a couple times so far was a couple of times so far have not been elements got have not been elements we've got the highest tax burden in seven decades. this is tory government just in case because they've changed so often the chancellor's is hard to keep up all the tax thresholds with the exception of the 45 pay, one remains solid until 2028, which by the way is kind of irrelevant. we're going to have an election then, but anyway, we'll stick with the facts . 28

we'll stick with the facts. 28 was in your mind? was that right in your mind? yeah. so for me this feels like stealth taxes of wealth taxes. now i mean, spend that in many ways the uk tax the amount of tax that the uk government takes in this country is quite low compared to other countries right countries like germany have got a higher tax take that they have and it's no coincidence that they're growing faster than because that faster than us because that money then spent on the things that drive things like investments right . you're saying investments right. you're saying that tax equals . that high tax burden equals. well, no i'm saying that money to spend investments, money to spending economy to us , money to spending economy to us, money to spending economy to us, money to spend on investments then drive that growth is what we need in country. now, that's not me saying often when we talk about tax, we assume it means everyone blunkett has higher taxes, right? that many of the people this room have this high taxes. instead could make of a instead we could make of a political choice to put on places that could bear that burden a bit more . like, for burden a bit more. like, for

example, a 1% little, little 1% tax on people with assets over, say, worth of tax on people with assets over, say, worth 0 f £10 million, tax on people with assets over, say, worth of £10 million, which would raise say, worth of £10 million, which would rais e £10 billion. right. would raise £10 billion. right. if we were to say you've got an asset, let's just say your house, your primary, if you're earning 10 million, if you if your income. no, no, much of that will from wealth for people earning that amount money. right. so if we're taxing 1% on the wealth of the people who are earning who whose income is over 10 million. it's so short term . 10 million. it's so short term. it's what you do next. you love it. you there raising your salary of £10 million? no. you want to know every single is after we've ascertained you want to do what we are we all bond in this country at tax ing wealth, right? we we're very good governments are very good at taxing our income. if we're working, they're so good at taxing wealth . so, for example, taxing wealth. so, for example, overall we as a percentage our money that we're getting in this work is paying more than the people who are getting a lot of

their money from sitting assets. you know, pay paintings, many, many, many and so on. so there's always an argument, this country, which i think is right to make sure that we're having an approach people earning an approach to people earning income wealth, from income from that wealth, from because accumulated there because it has accumulated there they've the notice of it they've caught the notice of it and stuff today the capital and stuff that today the capital gains threshold in terms of tax , they could have they could have closed the non—dom loophole. for example this is a classic example how you need to it's not blanket sort of we need to impose taxes everyone it's we need to make sure we're targeting taxes places that traditionally have not taxed so much. right. may i just make one point on the wealth tax issue, because it does sound , you know, because it does sound, you know, people big assets , perhaps we people big assets, perhaps we can just touch them a little bit more and we'll all be happy and have lots more money spend on things like the nhs. but the problem is that wealth taxes have been tried and they failed where they were tried. so france has had all of different has had all sorts of different taxes. what happened? you had millionaires out of the

millionaires move out of the country , that hide their country, that people hide their assets. you so much bureaucracy because down to even because it came down to even what painting your big what you're painting in your big drawing where tried to drawing room is where tried to calculate what every single you had worth and they didn't had was worth and they didn't make a barely money out of it. and also you deplete someone's assets one year. what are you going to do next? you'll you'll have less the tax you're not but you know it's very short and the only to get the tax but to only way to get the tax but to get tax revenue up is unfortunately to tax everyone. no i don't think that's the case.i no i don't think that's the case. i mean, i think in britain we a betterjob than france when it comes to making that we levy those wealth, taxes. and it's not 100% on certain bits of not 100% tax on certain bits of wealth we're calling for, which means run those taxes means that you'd run those taxes down. a small amount down. it's just a small amount in country. been in this country. we have been a situation where we do not tax wealth as much as we're taxing income. and i just think that that's we try and grow the pie instead. yes we need pie, but you need make. but i'm going a minute. you need to make those investments. we cannot the pie

if we've got a massive waiting lists in our health services and to the point where the labour where the people who are out there working and that pie are held back. i agree. i agree. but nhs we're spending upwards of £170 billion a year on the nhs we need to be talking to nhs management and finding out why on earth we have nhs waiting lists so long and why money isn't going to the front line green yeah, i agree. i agree with on on that. very quickly right. the it's often we think we just saw with chuck in discussions the nhs and we're not outcomes absolutely right we think that because we're clearly not but we to think about where that money is going i must stress that that money is not gone into upgrading the kids. the basic bill for example, that will help get those waiting list down and just say every single country in the world is spending lots of money on its health system. it is a fundamental thing our society to spend that money the european money. we look at the european average of how much money are

spending every year increasing health budgets. we are on average 40 billion a year lower than they are investing . well, than they are investing. well, lest we forget , by the way, that lest we forget, by the way, that we tend our national service into a national covid service , into a national covid service, if we hadn't bothered doing all of that stuff, we might be in a better position on. the wealth tax and the income tax thing also not forget that the top 1% contributes. i think it's about 2720 8% of all income tax receipts as it is. let me the people of southampton specifically about income tax. if will everyone who here is let's ask this how is anyone here feeling you pay too much income tax they this is even a shy audience because i would i can tell you if i didn't to show you my own place i'd have my hands up i can say i found one. there you go. tell me. stand up. so give me your name names. go to hell. i go afraid. tell tax. i think i pay too much tax

because look at what the government does and the way they spend our money and i'm appalled. i mean i'm upset appalled. mm. i mean i'm upset pull what . i want pull them you what. i want a minute you're right but you didn't think you paid too much tax. 2 minutes ago. know how expensive from a generation where you know we learned to and say well we have to scrimp the three week i've lived three day week i've lived through you know, having an electricity turn off we electricity turn off and we learn now, but what do see the learn now, but what do i see the government in the way money government in the way they money is unbelievable quangos, is just unbelievable quangos, you see . dare i point you know. i see. dare i point out we don't have an old range rover parked . we have a 22 plate rover parked. we have a 22 plate range rover to take me. i ask you . well, yes, i am listening you. well, yes, i am listening to patrick christie. apparently, he's got less look, he's got a whole country godfrey has come to that i like going for a £779 on cakes to welcome back his staff lockdown. that's what the government spent should have gone to correction they owe that all the cafes are available of course anything else get less coffee before i got someone out

£5,393 on story telly training by a an ecologist and ecologist do our employees need to know anything about the storytelling they're the best in the world. surely well i like to a light on style thank you so much. there's a lady here that wanted say something. so i believe . can i something. so i believe. can i have a microphone? oh another lady that i've just got here. come and i'm so my name's elizabeth. i play by my point, i'm a small business owner. yeah. up until the summer, my was to invest into my company grow and grow. and because of all of this rhetoric that that now has stopped, we now have to protect the staff that i'm paying protect the staff that i'm paying got eight members of staff i've got a team but now i've to protect my clients who are all cutting back. and now i have to protect my staff. so this isn't about over the next year for me. this is about protecting my jobs in my company . let ask you specifically,

. let me ask you specifically, because of the things today because one of the things today is you're small business is if you're a small business with this might impact is if you're a small business with you this might impact is if you're a small business with you will s might impact is if you're a small business with you will havejht impact is if you're a small business with you will have seen|pact is if you're a small business with you will have seen that the you. you will have seen that the national it's now national wage, as it's now called has gone up from £9.50. called, has gone up from £9.50. it will up. what will that it will going up. what will that do to a business owner? do to you as a business owner? can you absorb increase in can you absorb that increase in wages or not so? i had to look at this over the summer because of inflation rate was going of the inflation rate was going up i had make a decision do up i had to make a decision do i want keep staff. so in the want keep my staff. so in the last i've made inflation last month i've made inflation busting pay rises and i thought, okay that's great, we've got a good plan for growth for the next year. you know, we had good steady clients coming in to us and again that's all gone . i now and again that's all gone. i now have to protect stuff. i don't want to lose my staff . they are want to lose my staff. they are fantastic for me and my business and now my whole thing is to protect staff and get them paid. well, give you a round of well, i'll give you a round of applause. it's too applause. not because it's too much, but . i applause. not because it's too much, but. i think there was a lady there . can you stand up? lady there. can you stand up? get a microphone ? hello hi. get a microphone? hello hi. i just wanted to that i'm

disappointed with the money that we spend on the national health service . to me it's not about service. to me it's not about what the money we spend, we to fix the problems at. the top of the national health service the management. let's talk needs to be sorted out. i think we need to get the army there. somebody like logistic army one now to sort out it needs to be looked at because . there is so much at because. there is so much wastage . you get a letter from wastage. you get a letter from the from the hospital , you get the from the hospital, you get one one day and then one comes the next day. so you get so all is just utter waste of money. and i just think what we on the national have, it's not so much what the money is, it's just the wastage, how effective it is. i think she makes a very good point actually thank you . can point actually thank you. can ask a question to the audience . ask a question to the audience. can you ask if she wants my job as our economy chief audience go on then. you can take my role on. put your hand up if you think that if you think tax is

on the wealth of the very wealthiest are too and qualify what i mean by very wealthiest because i think there's a bit of politics envy going on at yes, again, i'll know what you mean. you know, fair play as long as they're doing it productively right qualified if going to right qualified if you going to ask about wealthy, tell ask them about wealthy, tell them the them what you mean by the wealth. so people whose assets are worth more than 10 million assets are being bought by. tax revenue. someone revenue. you know, if someone is sitting say five homes sitting on let's say five homes that are worth in total sitting on let's say five homes that are worth in tota sitting on let's say five homes that are wortithattota sitting on let's say five homes that are wortithat many people million from that many people like that. do we think that that do we think that that's all to go on on asking me question then so now that we've qualified if someone's got five houses left we think the assets of the very wealthiest the tax to low in this country. put your hand up you think that's the case one at the back saying that's three, three, four, five, five. if you're listening watching, most people don't agree with laura. he's not happy about that. what note is in the people? people

think that they're taxed too low. and if people think that is some about 100. my question was well it's qualifying say look go on then laura go on qualify it. oh yeah put your hands if you think taxes on very wealthiest should a bit higher than they may be at the moment. you might not think. yes of everyone if you're listening if you're listening not watching, you don't know what that's going on. let me wrap it up for you. laura is doing a very good job of trying to get people to share his vision about these people that have worked hard, that says they've invested their tax revenue taxed and then revenue taxed income and then they've made a bit profit. they've made a bit more profit. laurie them to pay even more. most people sensible folk in this room agree him. so on this room don't agree him. so on that note, i'll hand over to you at home. do you agree with them? get touch gbviews@gbnews.uk get in touch gbviews@gbnews.uk and it's and tell me. if you do, it's what we're going to lay down now. i'll get him and i'll see you guys in a couple of minutes .

welcome back to dewbs & co with welcome back to dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry keeping you company right until 7:00 tonight. my panel policy research policy research . research policy research. different policy for me is a completely thing from policy research at laurie labour on emily calvert as well is head of media at the institute of economic affairs me company tonight. i've got to say in break by the way, these lot negotiate with laurie to try and come up with a separate question a different way of asking the question, you know, you get everyone lucky. there isn't everyone lucky. there isn't every thinks that they've got my job tonight because jack at home he sent me question . michelle, he sent me a question. michelle, can you ask this question to the audience? go on. anyone else anyway? question?

anyway? what's the question? jack ask jack says, please. can you ask everyone in southampton in terms of the tory party and the labour party think jack basically feels that they're not putting them off that so asking if there was a strong alternative party to vote for in the next election, would you go for its hands off ? would you go for its hands off? jeremy i'm john jack at home you can have my job if you want. if it all goes for me, you've got a good rise. i thought the. audience the short answer if you're listening not watching, was pretty much everyone's said yes that's right. you know, yes to that's right. you know, in in view anyway it in my in my view anyway it should always be that if you're able bodied , able minded, you able bodied, able minded, you should wanting to get out and should be wanting to get out and go and work for yourself, provide your family. but the autumn statement today , it's had autumn statement today, it's had a lot of criticism, some saying that it almost disincentivise rises. people going to work. why i you ask? well, because of news today that benefits will rise in line with of course, i have to

remind you hear two things. number one, i realise that some people that claim benefits, of course, do work . but the other course, do work. but the other side to remind ourselves of here is that also wages they are not rise linked by inflation. so you have this whole kind of disproportionate rise for some people, if you will, are on benefits. the other news as well. and don't worry before you shout me at home, you're going to say to me, this is not but the pensions triple lock that is going to be respected. the going to be respected. so the pensions rising by 10.1% pensions will be rising by 10.1% as well. i'd love to put those two things in the same bracket because pensioners, a lot of them have worked, contributed to them have worked, contributed to the system. i don't really to the system. so i don't really to put that in the same basket as this for now. so let's just pick on the benefits in terms rising with was that the with inflation, was that the right emily? i can see right decision, emily? i can see why they it's when why they but it's hard when people's are only going up by about 5.7% on average and then benefits be going up by 10.1. i think with that inflation rate,

that was so is hard to it does seem like the government is happy to squeeze the productive part of the economy people who are going out to work businesses individuals while they then hand it to people who are out of work or unproductive of course now there millions of people in this country who are on out of work benefits. a lot them will be for good reason may be they may be sick, they may be disabled . it sick, they may be disabled. it may be many reasons why they don't work. let's say since the pandemic, hundreds , thousands of pandemic, hundreds, thousands of people have been added to that list, got numbers of people list, got huge numbers of people who out who could be who are out work, who could be working , should working. we working, should be working. we have market shortages have labour market shortages in this there lots of this country. there are lots of jobs there . if you are jobs out there. if you are looking for them . i hope that looking for them. i hope that the government and they doing this their credit, they have this to their credit, they have said are going to said that they are going to clamp on this and try and clamp down on this and try and get people work and clamp get more people work and clamp down fraud. such down on benefit fraud. no such things. so i'm hoping that we can some more of those can get some more of those people working in the people out working in the economy and then they're

contributing well because contributing as well because that's important. if you're that's so important. if you're asking you know, asking more taxpayers, you know, there a sense that there needs to a sense that everyone's it together . everyone's in it together. laurie, do you agree in terms of benefits rising in line with inflation? think inflation? i mean, i think immensely hard for people immensely hard time for people with energy prices and with rising energy prices and stuff to give them stuff that you need to give them help if they're on benefits that needs go inflation. needs to go with inflation. i mean, i think that anything less than push even than that is going to push even more into hardship than more people into hardship than already in the country . well, already in the country. well, let me put the flipside to people at home as well. we'll be writing this saying. they will be saying nobody wants be saying that nobody wants anyone least of all anyone to suffer, least of all the that earning the the people that are earning the least etc. in a scenario where everybody has to feel the pinch, everyone has to tighten their belts. we're all in this together. do you not think , that together. do you not think, that that should apply to the benefits , but we're not all in benefits, but we're not all in it together, are we as we were talking earlier. there are, you know. sure got knocked out when we're talking about a wealth and stuff. right. but if we raising, you know, fair play and i also

agree what people are saying people who are earning their wealth productively totally i'm all for that. but we were just talking in the break about say some the giants are not some of the tech giants are not paying some of the tech giants are not paying the taxes they should in this country. talking this country. we're talking about companies who about the energy companies who made because made vast profits because they've new they've suddenly invented new technologies make more technologies that make more profitable. it's because putin decided to invade ukraine, shoot energy prices high. so we're not all in it together . we are not. all in it together. we are not. if the government if this government is saying, hey, guys we need to come together and deal with this hard time, i, of course, agree that rhetoric i want to help. anyone, want to help. i like anyone, i think in this country to pitch in, it's not that we really in, but it's not that we really are in it together. so i think very difficult for us to focus people, many of whom are also in work receiving benefits to say, well, you've got to take pinch in a big way when there other people who have got extraordinarily bored shoulders all the way out here who are making massive amounts of money . we're not taking some of that .we're not taking some of that in tax. instead let me ask the

audience here in cell and i'm going to move to pensions in going to move on to pensions in just a second. but on this whole kind of situation, with the benefits line with benefits rise in line with inflation, any strong feelings inflation, any strong feelings in room about that? anyone in the room about that? anyone yes. a gentleman here i get a microphone tony's . yeah one microphone tony's. yeah one answer on this one on what? this thing is outrageous. what is the voice? the voice within . why? voice? the voice within. why? because the average workers taking 5% by choice is no incentive to work. it's even more so sit on your backside and claim the benefits and get 10% voice. but what about if i don't know, i got caring so they can't go to four but if i go cambridge places they're not claiming unemployment by the finale but they will be claiming some better. yeah but that's of it's okay but all the people on unemployment benefit are getting 10% for sitting on their backsides and it's not fair.

wages not for you. and i have to say , lot of people in my inbox say, lot of people in my inbox as well do share that sentiment. let's bring it into as well, if i may, emily the triple lock is remaining pensions going to go up remaining pensions going to go ”p by remaining pensions going to go up by 10.1? the right. it's a really difficult one. and i can see both sides on it there's a lot of young people are working who complain constantly . the who complain constantly. the triple lock the says it's fair at a time when so difficult to get on the housing when they're not getting higher wages, when their wages aren't going up within . flirtation you know within. flirtation you know older people have so much wealth have houses, they have assets know why should there why should their pensions going up. but on their pensions going up. but on the other hand , there seems to the other hand, there seems to be a mischaracterise ation of a lot of pensioners not pensioners are sitting there in, you know, million pound houses having a great time. a lot of them are living on very, very measly amounts of money. so i think a compromise would be for it to be a little more means tested. and that's to say with lots benefits for older people you know bus

passes don't think my dad and mom need to have a free bus pass. to be honest, i don't think alan sugar needs one ehhen think alan sugar needs one either. quite frankly, i'm only 62. they're still working well. yeah. where do you stand on the pension side? yeah. i mean, our logic that. think logic agree with that. i think that thing that we're that the thing that we're talking here is fact talking about here is the fact that we, like i said, are that we, again, like i said, are beginning certain beginning suffering from certain underinvestment. we're in a situation where if it's like a car or house, if you fail to make the repair as the pop up every now and again over time, then you're just storing trouble later. right. so we're in a situation where the we got by this energy shock, right. which not our fault. we didn't choose to go and invade ukraine and shoot the energy price higher. but if the government had made investments earlier on, for example, like energy example, things like energy efficiency we would have efficiency and so we would have been protected now like been better protected now like the government in not having invested in key in society has made us vulnerable when shocks come along and that's happened. and then what, what it means in that moment is that all were in

the situation like oh my goodness country's in a very difficult rightly , difficult position rightly, people have to make people are going to have to make painful and so on. but painful decisions and so on. but would be in a far better place if the government had to be invested. by the way, successive ones. just hold ones. i'm going to just hold thought second, if you thought one second, if you don't mind. just to hear from mind. i just want to hear from people here about the pensions, what about this lock. who what about this triple lock. who in has strong feelings in this room has strong feelings about whether about the triple lock, whether or have been or not? it should have been respected not anybody . oh, respected or not anybody. oh, quite a few. let's go to lady here. the front. hello. can i get microphone? you want to stand yeah hi, penny. hi . stand up? yeah hi, penny. hi. i have mixed feelings. i'm quite advantageous. i've worked hard and paid taxes. and what ? all my and paid taxes. and what? all my life? well, i thought though today was okay , they're going to today was okay, they're going to keep this triple lock, which is terribly unfair to the youngsters. i take the case my grandson's always telling me . grandson's always telling me. but there's also a freeze on the personal allowances . so you

personal allowances. so you people who have got good pensions as well as you know top not just state pension. yeah they're going to have their personal allowance frozen anyway. so this triple lock. yeah very nice . i would imagine yeah very nice. i would imagine there'll be quite few pensioners who are quite well—off saying well actually it won't be that advantageous losing it somewhere else. yeah i'm, i'm a sort of cagey about means because i remember my parents going on about means tests and how unfair it was back in the 1932 of course. so you know, we don't think example i'll pick on my old boss alan sugar if you don't think he deserves an 10% well deserves is the wrong way but you don't think he is i think should probably so when we talk about testing there about means testing there are some that just basically some people that just basically i on, you shouldn't be i mean come on, you shouldn't be getting this extra 10% sugar alan wherever it seems alan wherever you are it seems how much these laws just seem very generous indeed thank very much. so someone else hear that. very opinions behind me. see

this is a topic that's got people talking. i hear from this gentleman then the chap that gentleman and then the chap that in black you. but can i just in the black you. but can i just close this guy here. yes close this guy here. yep. yes you. man . i thank you. you're lucky man. i thank you. i really agree with what emily said in this. you. i really agree with what emily said in this . can you talk emily said in this. can you talk to microphones so we can all. yes, i want to stand up as well so they can see your sound. yeah fully agree what you say now you to talk into this because your point good i agree with point in the good i agree with yourself, emily. and also lady the decision or the policy about , the pension, the triple lock. it's a political decision because pensioners tend to vote conservative yes. and i don't think some this government want to alienate their core supporters. that's the first thing. the second thing i don't think need to be talking in terms of a means there ought to be some sort threshold above which . you don't get the triple which. you don't get the triple lock, you don't get the 10. a lot of pensioners have got some dividends, some investments .

dividends, some investments. they've got up in very generous occupational . they're not occupational. they're not deserving of the state pension to be maintained consistent with the rate of inflation just seems grossly unfair. for the reasons you said about how the young people feel they've got debts. yes that perhaps unlikely to inherit property, inheritance inherit property they can't save for mortgage because they're paying for mortgage because they're paying market rates , rental paying market rates, rental property, which are going up because the buy to let industries going to be shafted with . the you make a very good with. the you make a very good point about the person capital gains tax etcetera etcetera. so i'm a pensioner i gains tax etcetera etcetera. so i'm a pensioneri mean gains tax etcetera etcetera. so i'm a pensioner i mean my 70 is i'd be quite happy. i i'm a pensioner i mean my 70 is i'd be quite happy . i wouldn't i'd be quite happy. i wouldn't have been unhappy had i not was an inflation then. i think it's sort of maintaining increase on my state pension . thank you very my state pension. thank you very much. you mentioned a person i

don't know how i've ended up a microphone, but there was a younger person . it was a younger younger person. it was a younger person that . i can't get off my person that. i can't get off my chair because i'm microphone into my chair. so someone allow me yet . and then after this one, me yet. and then after this one, i'm going to go to the break. so your thoughts on pensions there? yeah, i think genuinely as a community as a country, the older people we should be looking out for, i don't think pension should even close pension should be even close to being reduced anything . you being reduced or anything. you look of the past, you look at any of the past, you always look after your elders. i don't care how much money they've . the also to the younger they've. the also to the younger onesi they've. the also to the younger ones i don't know if i'm still class as young and fe but in about 40 years 50 years we're going to be needing that pension. yeah. if the government attack it now there is going to be nothing when we need a very good point they point be careful what you wish and i tell you what you wish and i tell you what it's nice isn't just to hear some nice that look after

the elderly because for you know lots of reasons and lots instances that just doesn't happen say i'm going to take a quick break. gb at gbnews.uk is the email get in touch with me when i do come back will have some of your thoughts from home. i promise i'll see you .

in two well you can go with me michelle dewberry i'm keeping you company right through until 7:00 tonight. keeping me company policy researcher laurie and also emily carver, who's the head of media at the institute of economics. we want to look bunch we are because we're here in southampton . this wonderful in southampton. this wonderful audience mixing so my last if i go audience mixing so my last if i

9° up audience mixing so my last if i go up now 510 minutes on this programme, it flies. we're having fun. so i'm to open it up to you wonderful people. well, let's talk budget. anything that anyone get their mind anyone wants to get their mind that have not yet covered. that we have not yet covered. hands look, there's lots of hands up. look, there's lots of people . the red on the front people. the red on the front row. go. oh, pink . oh, row. let's go. oh, pink. oh, that's the money there is a cost of living crisis. i've got four glasses, wipes, one. hello hi, michelle. this gentleman , laurie michelle. this gentleman, laurie , you said that the countries in, the state, because of the war in ukraine what about because it shut down the economy for two years? yes yes . and just for two years? yes yes. and just and just on that the way we did things like spend and just on that the way we did things like spen d £849 million things like spend £849 million on that whole help to eat out. so she makes a very good point it's not just about the ukrainian situation and all the things that we're led to believe it is that the thing that can't mention these days the choices that we made you make a very good point he cannot see you

afterwards anyone else got something that they want to raise. there's a chap there you've very straight arm you've got a very straight arm movement. like blue movement. i like that blue shirts stand up so we can see your handsome looks when the problem is not the actual wealth that government take be the that the government take be the party, the whole system, it's the way they spend it the procurements , way that the i.t procurements, way that the i.t wastage and just things that are out of touch with the general pubuc. out of touch with the general public . they're throwing money public. they're throwing money are not listening to any sensible small businessmen any household. if watch the news at my house i get three prices. oh yes . i want to go out to lunch. yes. i want to go out to lunch. i don't i don't to those favoured companies that serco or whatever have always been on board the models one that the recruitment that the wastage is just insane it makes a very good point that efficiency especially when it comes to things like procurement who else something that off your that you want to get off your chest. anything on this? you've been nice and quiet like chap been nice and quiet like a chap microphones this had microphones this chap had a stand sir it that the stand up. sir it true that the fuel duty is up? well, make

fuel duty is up? well, you make a very good point because this wasn't actually listed in the autumn budget, but was autumn budget, but it was featured in the air at liam halligan, by the way, will be joining us in a few minutes on the nigel programme, him and nigel farage be getting nigel farage will be getting into make excellent into that. you make excellent point. that will answered point. so that will be answered in the next few minutes. anyone else you sat at the front right stand . let's see if . hello, else you sat at the front right stand . let's see if. hello, i'm stand. let's see if. hello, i'm andrew. hello, andrew. yes wasn't aware that we voted for labour government, to be honest. yes yes , i was. labour government, to be honest. yes yes , i was . i'm very worried yes yes, i was. i'm very worried that the and ideology of giving people more of their own money reducing the tax burden on ordinary working families. and why hasn't vat been cut? i don't understand . i'm very worried understand. i'm very worried that the final station of kwasi kwarteng and truss has doomed the free market belief for a generation in this country , generation in this country, especially among the political class, because it's such a

lasting effect on the party that they've they've in two people who weren't even as leaders , as who weren't even as leaders, as leaders or chancellors , hundreds leaders or chancellors, hundreds as bottom up as bottom . the as bottom up as bottom. the leadership challenge, i don't know why , chancellor. well, know why, chancellor. well, there you go. why it chancellor? that what a wonderful and the audience questions. i don't that what a wonderful and the audience questions . i don't know audience questions. i don't know the answer. do why is jeremy . the answer. do why is jeremy. chancellor you tell me . right. chancellor you tell me. right. i'm almost out of time. chancellor you tell me. right. i'm almost out of time . quick i'm almost out of time. quick words to you, laurie and to emily. laurie. so take the question. yeah, i agree . massive question. yeah, i agree. massive mistakes were made . the mistakes were made. the pandemic. what did you say it was not choices. choices, choices . 849 million was not choices. choices, choices. 849 million on how to. unbelievable. a lot of that went to me to be honest i on we all when i was were eating out about four times a week. everyone is the procurement point as well is a good one given you know giving you contracts for ppe that didn't work and so on is an

absolute disgrace. but we must remember, these are choices that are made by politicians and governments, and those choices could be different. we could have invested in public services with things the country. good. emily, go and choices different choices . emily, go and choices different choices. emily i mean, i think that last point was absolutely on because liz truss quasi messed things up and didn't set the scene, didn't lay the ground for changes were going for the changes they were going to now it seems like got to make. now it seems like got a chancellor and, a prime minister who over correcting who are over correcting everything and i think we are in a state of managed decline at the moment right. a state of managed decline at the moment right . well, there the moment right. well, there you go. you're not. but anyway i'm not going to lie. i got next to you with. he's been in touch saying i, for one, am happy about today's budget . said we about today's budget. said we basically been on a massive bender for the last two years paying bender for the last two years paying people to stay home and do it's time for do nothing. now it's time for the pay the bottom up. the country. pay the bottom up. i'll leave you for that thought. do go anywhere. conversation i'll leave you for that thought. do continue/where. conversation i'll leave you for that thought. do continue(whelnigeliversation i'll leave you for that thought. do continue/whelnigel farage)n will continue with nigel farage at seven. good evening. i'm alex deakin . this is your latest deakin. this is your latest

weather update from. the met office tomorrow will be drier day for many of us, but it is still going to be very, very wet across parts of eastern scotland with the potential for flooding this of low pressure is responsible it's just slowly creeping the eastern side at the moment . and around it, the winds moment. and around it, the winds are just in a lot of moisture and that means plenty more rain across eastern parts of scotland. we have amber weather warning coming into force at midnight covering , parts of midnight covering, parts of perth and kinross, aberdeen cher and angus and a yellow warning in place across much of eastern skye scotland. further south, the rain is starting ease across northern england. still a showers basically to the west of the pennines , some showers the pennines, some showers coming into northern ireland . coming into northern ireland. clear skies across the south so even here, a few showers in, the southwest, but it really is the north—east that bears the brunt of the heavy during friday. still very winds here as well as . there will be for the northern ireland say the strong winds just feeding in the moisture from the north the from the north sea, the potential flooding some very

potential for flooding some very fast and dangerous fast flowing and dangerous rivers well . a few showers rivers as well. a few showers continue over north—west england , south—west scotland. elsewhere, places dry, some elsewhere, many places dry, some sunny spells in south which could see highs of 30, but certainly a lot cooler than that with cloud , the persistent with the cloud, the persistent rain the gusty winds , the rain and the gusty winds, the north do finally start ease north that do finally start ease dunng north that do finally start ease during night . and then during friday night. and then we're left with clear spells for , many friday night. and this , many on friday night. and this is frost forming across is a frost forming across northern ireland. it will be a chilly start here. pockets of frost also likely across the west midlands, wales and, south—west england. so a chilly start to the weekend but actually a quite a bright start with plenty of sunshine in much of , scotland, southern of wales, scotland, southern parts of england will stay that way. there will quite a lot of cloud across the central eastern areas some patchy rain, but areas with some patchy rain, but nothing like as heavy or persisting as has been. persisting as it has been. temperatures for many. any single figures, maybe ten or 11 across the southwest, some rain waiting move in, though, on waiting to move in, though, on night .