good evening at 6 pm. and this is dewbs & c0 don't worry i'm is dewbs& c0 don't worry i'm watching the right channel. i'm culver filling in for michel jay right now. one thing you wouldn't have asked for this christmas are rail strikes they are anti—union has delivered another round of festive misery for commuters announcing they'll walk out the middle december walk out in the middle december and in january. the rail and again in january. the rail delivery groups as the strikes

have cost the industry £250 million. so i'll be asking, have cost the industry £250 million. so i'll be asking , is million. so i'll be asking, is this all rather self—defeating .7 this all rather self—defeating.7 and the labour leader makes a pitch to business leaders. we know cell of low wage immigration. it know cell of low wage immigration . it wasn't too long immigration. it wasn't too long ago, of course, that he was extolling the virtues of freedom of movement. do you believe he's had a change of heart? do you trust keir starmer more than rishi sunak when? comes rishi sunak when? it comes to immigration. rishi sunak when? it comes to immigration . and shell says it's immigration. and shell says it's re—evaluate its investments in the uk after windfall tax on oil and gas companies was extended. is the new tax value for money and the conservative party currently has a problem with millennials . according to one millennials. according to one think tank, he's resigned his position at a leading tory group and says the party is failing generation. all of that to come tonight on dewbs& co but first let's get to the news headlines . i'm let's get to the news headlines. i'm news room. the rmt union has

announced new industrial action over the festive period. it its members will not work overtime over christmas and will a series of 48 hour strikes in december and january. dates include 13th to 14th and 16th to 17th of december and the third to fourth and six to 7th of january. it's in the long running dispute over jobs and conditions , rmt general jobs and conditions, rmt general secretary mick says the reunion has been . now the government is has been. now the government is any resolutions the whole process become a farce that only the new secretary of state can now resolve . and i will be now resolve. and i will be calling him to act up to his responsibility . this thursday . responsibility. this thursday. in the meantime, our message to the is we are sorry to inconvenience you, but we urge you direct your anger and frustration at the government and the railway employers during this latest phase of action . this latest phase of action. nottinghamshire police say the mother of two young children who

were killed in flat fire has died. the is now being treated a triple murder. well, hollis is at the scene in clifton and bnngs at the scene in clifton and brings us up to date what's happened. brings us up to date what's happened . yes well happened. yes well nottinghamshire police now released the names of all three of the victims in what they're calling deeply upsetting tragedy . the mother who was pronounced dead earlier today, nottinghamshire , at queens nottinghamshire, at queens medical centre, has been named fatuma haidara, age 28. her two children have also been named fatma drama, age three and name on drama one years old. police and. fire investigations led to the conclusion that this was a fire that started deliberately. they currently hold a man named custody. a 31 year old man from clifton . they've been given an clifton. they've been given an extension of 36 hours to continue their questioning . now continue their questioning. now the detective chief inspector who's leading the investigation has said the father of the two children and the husband of the

mother wasn't in the fire at the time , in the flat, in the flats time, in the flat, in the flats at the time of the fire, he was actually of the uk and is now being supported by specially trained officers. they're asking for the respect of him and the entire family at what is clearly quite a difficult time. but people here in clifton and from the wider nottingham area have been coming to ferrol close to leave floral tributes and. a man who i spoke to just a few moments said that he is completely heartbroken by what's happened community. thank happened in his community. thank you. hollis. joining us you. will hollis. joining us there from the scene nottingham . the uk must wean itself off immigration. . the uk must wean itself off immigration . that's the message immigration. that's the message from labour leader to business bosses. from labour leader to business bosses . sir from labour leader to business bosses. sir keir starmer from labour leader to business bosses . sir keir starmer told bosses. sir keir starmer told the confederation of business industry, the days of low pay and cheap must end. and it's time to invest in training those already in the uk. he also promised to be a pragmatic about the shortage of workers, saying if he gets into government, he's

willing to increased skilled immigration. willing to increased skilled immigration . the home office immigration. the home office says a migrant processing centre , kent is now completely empty after concerns it had become extremely overcrowded. it said the manston site used to house people who've reached uk via the engush people who've reached uk via the english channel has been cleared. having moved everyone was there to hotels at its peak earlier this month. the centre was 4000 migrants, at least double its capacity living in conditions . an inspector called conditions. an inspector called wretched energy have been named and shamed , failing vulnerable and shamed, failing vulnerable customers with ofgem saying problems the board need to be urgent addressed. a review found severe weaknesses at five companies good energy . so energy companies good energy. so energy true , energy and utilita ofgem true, energy and utilita ofgem say households missing out on free gas safety checks and firms aren't doing enough to identify those on prepayment who may need help . in total, 17 suppliers

help. in total, 17 suppliers have been told they need improve their approach to vulnerable customers . experts are protest customers. experts are protest against a real time reduction in against a real time reduction in a uk state pensions. nearly half of a million. oaps live countries that don't have an operating agreement with the uk which means their state pension is frozen at the level it was when they started the payment . when they started the payment. number of people killed during the internees earthquake has risen to hundred and 68. many of the victims are children. disaster relief officials say 151 people are still missing. a after the 5.6 magnitude quake . after the 5.6 magnitude quake. west java. a number aftershocks have hit the region. triggering landslides and hampering rescue efforts. the latest figures , efforts. the latest figures, just more than 58,000 people have been displaced and 22,000 homes have been damaged . homes have been damaged. footballer ronaldo is leaving united with immediate effect as

part of a mutual agreement with the club. it's after the 37 year old criticised the club and its management last week. in a statement, the thanked him for his immense contribution during his immense contribution during his two spells at old trafford . his two spells at old trafford. cristiano ronaldo said i, manchester united and i love the fans that will never, ever . manchester united and i love the fans that will never, ever. but it feels like the right time for me to seek a new challenge . me to seek a new challenge. saudi have beaten tournament favourite . argentina two one in favourite. argentina two one in the opening match of the world cup in qatar . argentina have cup in qatar. argentina have been unbeaten since 2019 suffered what's being called a defeat to saudi arabia , ranked defeat to saudi arabia, ranked 51st in fifa world rankings compared to argentina's third place and. only penalty scored by lionel messi was countered by two quick goals by saudi arabia in the second half to online and radio . this is gb news. now it's radio. this is gb news. now it's back to dewbs& co co .

back to dewbs& co co. yes back to jesus and co. with me, emily . michelle is taking me, emily. michelle is taking a well and for the week so you'll have me tonight and also thursday and now i'll introduce my panel me until seven. we have former mep now conservative life peerin former mep now conservative life peer in the house of lords baroness jacqueline and all while was the editor of uncut. what is labour uncut from cup we're an online site. we cover labour news. we cover it from our centre within the labour party centre right centrist perspective probably blairite you'd say okay, well that would be interesting to get your opinion on the quest on this slight change tone when comes slight change in tone when comes to . but please do to immigration. but please do let me know your thoughts. let me know all your thoughts. the show we're going to be looking at the rail strikes which taking place in which will be taking place in december and. mick is out december and. mick lynch is out there rallying the troops for his cause. you support him or

his cause. do you support him or do you think it could a bit do you think that it could a bit self defeating . they're costing self defeating. they're costing the industry huge amounts of money . obviously keir starmer money. obviously keir starmer has been making lots of remarks when it comes to immigration. are we going to be winning economy off labour is the economy off cheap labour is the way to go. do you trust the labour party when it comes to immigration? we're also going to be talking about whether the conservatives have got wrong when it comes to millennials. so please get touch me please do get in touch with me vaiews@gbnews.uk or on twitter at gb news or at cava. emily so looks like you'll be driving home for christmas this year as workers have just announced a new wave of strikes for december the rmt union will strike on 13th and 14th. on the 16th and 17th of december. then again in january, the general secretary mick lynch says workers want a good deal on security pay and conditions at. all it does seem to me sometimes and to some of our viewers that mick lynch is holding the country a little bit

to ransom with his demands. i think people can generally understand with the cost of living inflation and workers will do what they can to boost their wages . will do what they can to boost their wages. now on the will do what they can to boost their wages . now on the specific their wages. now on the specific instance of , this range of instance of, this range of strikes, it's very hard to understand, to know detail of what's happening in this negotiation because normally unions would negotiate with employers here . it's different employers here. it's different because the government's involved. what lynch was saying , there was a deal, it was coming they thought they were there's going to be no need for strikes. the rail employer, others were lined up and with less than an hour to go mysteriously, the deal gets pulled. and now mick lynch has got to go see the new secretary state for transport. and it smells a little bit like maybe there's a new secretary state. he wants a bit of publicity . and he wants a bit of publicity. and so everything's been derailed a bit so that one doesn't quite know the detail what's happening in those negotiations . yes, it in those negotiations. yes, it does seem a little bit opaque at the moment. it's hard know the moment. it's hard to know how. they've got to a how. close. they've got to a settlement there

settlement, whether there is a settlement, whether there is a settlement on the table . mick settlement on the table. mick lynch is simply refusing good enough him or it's enough for him or whether it's a little bit more complicated than that. now, i'm asking whether jacklin whether this is all a bit self—defeating as we saw over the course of the pandemic , the government pumped huge amounts of taxpayer money into the rail industry to keep it afloat. all of strike action is costing the industry more and more money . apparently 250 more money. apparently 250 million, perhaps the strike far. could it be that they're actually paving the way for more redundancies and closures to come because there simply isn't the money? well i think it's extremely disappointing. and i think it's actually quite avoidable in my former life before even going into the european parliament, i spent 13 years as a trade union negotiator , three of those with negotiator, three of those with the transport and general workers union and then ten with a union that we formed a number of you must have seen some scenes . i've seen some i have scenes. i've seen some i have been on the picket line. i have

i've taken out to strike. so i'm not here. who's somebody who's ? not here. who's somebody who's? anti trade union. but trade unions also have a responsibility and. i think the point that you picked up on dunng point that you picked up on during the two years during covid, the taxpayer actually put in about covid, the taxpayer actually put in abou t £17 billion to keep the in about £17 billion to keep the railways afloat because obviously we needed to them to be in place like the public sector. we spent to make sure once we came out of covid that obviously we had a railway, we had railway left . in addition had a railway left. in addition to that, i was i've been commuting on avanti , which was commuting on avanti, which was virgin for about 20 years and i chat to the and what i'm a bit surprised about when i was aback actually talking to the staff very recent , i actually talking to the staff very recent, i said, actually talking to the staff very recent , i said, well, where very recent, i said, well, where are you up to with this? what exactly is going on? i said, i know there's the 8, but what are the other issues involved in this negotiation ? on terms and this negotiation? on terms and conditions, there is an issue about taking an early pension? there structured they had

there was a structured they had in place that i know that they want i did to him want to. but i did say to him the person i was the particular person i was talking about others, talking about and others, i said, so how much, you get a day for strike pay and this is rmt. i don't know the other i don't know about the other unions he we haven't any unions and he we haven't had any strike pay . so i said, well, strike pay. so i said, well, what what do you mean? i said, when you go out on strike, your trade union normally gives you strike pay. i it's not necessarily going to be the equivalent what you would equivalent of what you would earn might be 25 earn in the day it might be 25 quit could be more than that quit it could be more than that and they have not received one day's pay for strike nothing towards it. so we're looking at going into 21 days by the time we add up december and january, which isn't just three weeks to strike disruption . it's gone on strike disruption. it's gone on over a period of time . over a period of time. obviously, railways don't , you obviously, railways don't, you know, start the next day if you've actually industrial action and the other i want to know is what's deal of a set? i mean , i said, have you ever been mean, i said, have you ever been balloted on the deal on the table? and he said . well, no, we table? and he said. well, no, we get we emails and i said well

what do the emails say. so he said, well they sort of keep us up to date. so it seems that the, the, the members of the trade union themselves are being held to ransom. well, i'm saying that mischaracterisation of positions happening with them to actually speak to the people who work on the trains. i to conclude and i'm in finishing i'll come straight back to you because the thing is in any good negotiate of course it can go on ad nauseam it can go on item but you've got to get to a position whereby as you quite rightly say, you have to look at what the losses are, not just the 250 million. we said to the company, but to the members themselves. there's no certainly for those in the and it appears that the deal even before where we got to today i've no idea what's happened today. you know you've got to at some stage you have you have to put the deal to the members to say to the members this is what we've got to do you agree well we've to .

agree with. well we've got to. don't and then you move to don't you and then you move to on next phase. so you're itching to i am the platform that to in. i am the platform that what the point you made is probably lynch's point the deal was coming deal was less than an hour away to put something to the members , there has to be the members, there has to be a deal agreed where the union's happy the union leadership have been elected and deputed to negotiate all behalf with rail . negotiate all behalf with rail. employers are happy and that goes to the members. we were 55 minutes away from that happening, but have previous pay over the which they've rejected out hand have been packages before and i'm sorry call me cynical that all of a sudden 55 minutes before you've got to a certain point and then the trade union after i've been there i know what i know we know how we get you must know these kind of . so i'm convinced. i am not convinced. you can tell from histamine 55. you can tell i'm histamine 55. you can tell i'm histamine feller can tell from this to me that it's a different sort of press conferences

absolutely furious so i take hold of the strikes time and i speak as someone who is not a natural ally of all unions labour and we critical friends of unions we don't believe in know you know never and never ending strikes but if a deal is on the table because you have negotiated in good faith with the employers and the employers have given you the outline and you know something there and that's going to go to the members that gets put. must that's going to go to the meryou�*s that gets put. must that's going to go to the meryou ashat gets put. must that's going to go to the meryou as at gets put. must that's going to go to the meryou as a labour)ut. must that's going to go to the meryou as a labour voice must that's going to go to the meryou as a labour voice what ask you as a labour voice what labour just ask you as a labour voice what labourjust give in to all demands . at the moment we've got demands. at the moment we've got a coordinated action. that's what it looks like. i've got here we've got the civil servants, we've got nurses, bus drivers, rail workers, workers, security staff, university staff, firefighters, teachers and so on. if the government were to just write a blank check , we'd be uncropped as a nation with zero chance that keir starmer's party will give in and try to write a blank check. only half what it used to be on the picket lines. i only have to look at the experience of when

labour lost in power under tony as starmer's charting very as keir starmer's charting very similar course. there was no there no blank check the there was no blank check to the unions. labour will do unions. but what labour will do is the politics out of is take of the politics out of it that stepping back it that government stepping back letting employers to the letting employers talk to the unions and get round the table and come to it. and if they aren't doing that , that's where aren't doing that, that's where government steps in banks , heads government steps in banks, heads together says, may i just together and says, may i just make one point before we get the views all viewers at home is views of all viewers at home is not one of the key issues here that they're not willing to not don't pay they're not willing to budge any working conditions that are , in some people's view that are, in some people's view very archaic . well, there are. very archaic. well, there are. okay. i mean just an example. it's only a very small we have the technology which is called drones. i've been involved with the aerospace and drone industry for an industry for many years . for an industry for many years. i think we've got to be one of the only modern countries on this planet where have railway workers walking along lines to

check the line safe before obviously before the train starts to run. i mean and they want to keep a practise like that which is in itself i mean the whole point of using the technology that we have today is for safety for the people that are actually employed. it must be so it's just very small example. but i understand also that from the people i've been talking to on a vanity that they are starting to put into place, are starting to put into place, a new rostering next week and the week after that . so that was the week after that. so that was apparently supposed be part of this negotiation . so frankly, i this negotiation. so frankly, i don't know actually happening, but it's whatever is happening, the disruption and the cost to the disruption and the cost to the employer is and the cost actually let's just the workforce and cost to industry and the cost to everything actually is just absolutely astronomical . and it must must astronomical. and it must must be said in terms of railway workers, they are on average paid more than similar jobs in

paid more than similarjobs in in the private sector or non unions sized jobs. there's a lot of people who are suffering the consequences inflation not just railway workers and from cost to worth i think that's how you pronounce that area. i'm not sure where that is actually dunng sure where that is actually during covid. i'm sure all these pubuc during covid. i'm sure all these public employed workers were drawing their normal pay and no layoffs. for the most layoffs. as for the most industrious workforce who got furlough at best, yes. that's pointed to what we said earlier about the fact that, of course, the taxpayer did have spend huge amounts of money propping up the industry as well, which that was comment was that that was an investment in the future of the united kingdom. you can't people starve you can't let the country go to the wall. yes people were on furlough, but it was to keep our economy alive, to make sure that we don't have penury, that we don't have starvation in our country. it's no the pay negotiation is a separate issue to what happened with furlough, which was right. it was done

under a conservative government. and that was wrong. what i'm saying that unfortunately the saying is that unfortunately the reality is now that there isn't the money to spend on massive inflation pay rises across the board for workers within the railway or elsewhere in the pubuc. railway or elsewhere in the public . we're talking about up public. we're talking about up we're talking very specifically in this instance about the rail strikes that are coming. there was a deal. the employers clearly there was money. it's their budget we don't know that budget. mr. upton said. we don't know what's happening in that negotiating . but i say negotiating. but i must say i must margaret, who's at must say, margaret, who's at home, says, your apologies, home, she says, your apologies, mr. not going to mr. lynch. i am not going to travel this christmas. i cannot risk to use the risk not being able to use the train and be stuck with no way home. for keeping me home. thanks for keeping me home after travelling the after not travelling for the last holiday seasons last two winter holiday seasons because and this because of covid. and this is why i it's all why i say it's all self—defeating because people have options . have found different options. they're pushed off the they're being pushed off the railways because they're actually that car actually finding out that car might easier yesterday might be easier yesterday i couldn't back home i live couldn't get back home i live outside of london the railways had decided to and i had no idea

there was strike going ahead yesterday evening. so instead got a car all the way back. so it is self—defeating would say we're going to move on now though don't forget there's got an overtime ban. well is 18th of december on the 2nd of january and normally certainly in the in the travel industry and these industries people like to have some overtime. of course they do because they're working the bank holidays and various things. yeah. if you've also got that in place, i mean the listen to the view that's just commented , you view that's just commented, you will find even when it is run when the trains are running there's going to be a massive reduction the answer reduction in the answer very, very with answer is very quickly with the answer is for the government to get back, get a back and let the get a step back and let the employers the union it employers and the union work it out. nevertheless than an hour from you didn't meet. from a deal. you didn't meet. it's lynch's interests it's in mick lynch's interests to government versus to make this government versus unions this anyway coming out particularly working for the member moving on the members and i think he's playing party politics and i think it's been

politics and i think it's been politics for a while. so we must move on. sadly, we can make further points later up. the labour leader confronts business and says it's time to end dependence on wage immigration. do you believe , do you trust do you believe, do you trust him? do you agree with him. let me .

welcome back to jason kind of things got a little bit heated before the break about the rail strikes let me know what you think. do you support mick lynch? perhaps you do at home. joining me until seven, i will reintroduce panel we are former mep conservative life peer in the house of lords baroness jacqueline foster here with us till seven and at all hat 12. the editor of labour uncut now you've been sending in your opinions thick and fast on the rail work on rail strikes that are ahead apparently in december

and january just in time for christmas in december anyway. kevin baroness foster is ignonng kevin baroness foster is ignoring some union processes. regional organisers are in constant communication with local union members during industrial action times . i industrial action times. i presume he meant to finish and i think to say any rebuttal, it doesn't seem like she is. jacqueline seems to know quite a lot about these things. i would i would say and also steve says mick lynch wants more money and jobs for life. mick lynch economic with the truth and his objective is to bring down the government galvanise other government by galvanise other unions i mean he has unions to strike. i mean he has actually said that he does want co—ordinated strike action across the public sector and across the public sector and across services. so that's no conspiracy that is certainly what he wants now . we're going what he wants now. we're going to move on. labour leader keir starmer presented his cv to the business world today. in a way with a speech at the cbi . with a speech at the cbi. business leaders are for more immigration to address

shortages. but the leader of the opposition said britain has to instead wean itself off cheap laboun instead wean itself off cheap labour. starmer says he'll be pragmatic about immigration and using it to plug skills gaps. now jacqueline as a conservative if you're buying this from keir no, absolutely . not. i mean, the no, absolutely. not. i mean, the thing is there is you will always a mismatch of skills. i mean, we know that it doesn't matter. many people you will for example have that are unemployed. i think where we've got a real concern is we now about another 2 million people is about five and a half million people working who are people now working age who are actually and on actually at home and on benefits. now obviously a of those people will never be able to work or can't work for various but what we have to do to try and make sure in that's in the uk where i would agree we need to start getting people back into the workplace. i think in an unintended consequences

way when he uses the this phrase cheap labour you're not sure what cheap labour supposed to mean. we know, for example, that when many people came from abroad that would work in the agricultural sector they agricultural sector and they came years it worked on the came for years it worked on the farms various things like that. but, you know we have a minimum wage in place . we have strict wage in place. we have strict rules on on paying conditions. we have employment legislation, which is place. and then you've got this sort of dichotomy because the years and it started with the blair government, we want to get more , more people want to get more, more people into university . so if we're into university. so if we're looking at getting, you know, 40 or 50% of people into university and then we're looking at the jobs, which should say we'd say traditionally blue collar or that wouldn't be you wouldn't be really earning huge amounts of money, example. you've also money, for example. you've also to make sure that you're going to make sure that you're going to to the people in to be able to get the people in the workforce to do. the workforce to be able to do. and we know for a fact that we had many opportunities were trying british trying to get a british workforce back into work , maybe

workforce back into work, maybe in agriculture and whatever they couldn't do, and it hasn't. so it was also one of the reasons i think there's another thing that i'm uneasy and the i'm always uneasy and it's the factif i'm always uneasy and it's the fact if you're looking at skilled professionals, we know that are countries out that there are countries out there only africa there and i was only africa canbbean there and i was only africa caribbean pacific assembly caribbean pacific joint assembly five i've lived in five years and i've lived in other countries and obviously as you been in the you said, i've been in the european and always european parliament and i always feel skilled feel about taking the skilled people from some of these countries who actually them. if you were looking at doctors, if from it's not even from moral angle, it's not even just a moral angle , they will just a moral angle, they will need to try . they will need need to try. they will need those people to build their infrastructure, which is actually a way to go to to actually a way to go to go to deaung actually a way to go to go to dealing with migrant nation. and people hopefully likely to people are hopefully likely to want to move away of the standard of living now. so i think it's a complex area. it is a area. and of a very complex area. and of course are massive labour market shortages. and yes, the amount of people who are on out of work and not working of working age is considerable and that will be adding to the problem while laboun adding to the problem while

labour. they the ones who opened the doors one could say to mass so essentially are they to blame for the fact our economy is addicted to cheap because they were the ones who wanted it. it's not being addicted to cheap laboun it's not being addicted to cheap labour. it's about plugging the skills gaps in your labour and enabung skills gaps in your labour and enabling business and public services to thrive . if you want services to thrive. if you want to look back to the new labour years growth year on year the highest for 30 years budgets, surpluses, fully funded nhs fully funded, public services . fully funded, public services. no need to wait for, say a gp. two weeks, three weeks, a month. within two days waiting , times within two days waiting, times slashed. that's what fully staffed services deliver. company is thriving. taxes you're off the charts. what thriving businesses ? deliver. thriving businesses? deliver. the underpinning our economy is growth . and in this one respect, growth. and in this one respect, this trust was was right. you need growth and if business if

services saying labour shortages are holding us back then that needs to be addressed in the medium term. of course right to train british workers. that's just that's the most commonsensical non non—controversial thing to do. but what we do know is governments over the past 20, 30, 40, 50 years haven't done a terribly good job of it. priority number one, growth economy fund our services . i economy fund our services. i think the problem is that a lot of people see the attempts. well the government strategy at the moment this isn't keir starmer's remarks but the government has an article slated a proper economic strategy. have they it seems that importing labour from is one of the key corners of it that and insulating more it seems there wasn't much that autumn statement for those of us who want economic growth and i do think it is not what voters want. it's not what conservative voters want . for an economy to voters want. for an economy to be dependent on more . and more

be dependent on more. and more migration . well, i'm in complete migration. well, i'm in complete agreement and i understand, obviously, it's very difficult for me sitting here as a conservative say i'm not wholly supportive . the autumn supportive. the autumn statement. actually, the points that liz truss came up with, that liz truss came up with, that mini budget cuts which actually the labour party support it, apart from the change in the top rate of tax in terms of reducing corporation tax, i five getting rid of that for small business, etc. okay, the timing was wrong, but in terms of what your philosophy is as a politician and a party or the philosophy of the tory party is about tax and small state and obviously getting outward investing and all of this but at the end of the day i see obviously huge steps they've taken obviously to protect obviously protect the most vulnerable . but equally i see vulnerable. but equally i see a lack of any move to encourage inspiration. i think hit the

midlands. i'm not sure people who are probably just onto 40% have started to actually a couple of weeks ago on here they're paying over 50% out of their wages . they you know, their wages. they you know, that's all that they have . it is that's all that they have. it is crazy. i mean people that i think it's i think it's ludicrous. and you've got have growth. you've got to have inspiration. you have to suffer may on brief point may pick up on a brief point there it was in 2004 when there it was it was in 2004 when there it was it was in 2004 when there was in lodgement on the other european union states seven years to transition and the blair government just basically the doors and that started put pressure on which obviously took a number of to come through when labour came power in 1997 they inherited it actually a very strong economy we are it i must say i must say on that i think a lot of people begin to very angry because saw yes they saw tony open the doors to more immigrants than from the european union and they saw wages being undercut . and also wages being undercut. and also it seems like our public services have never been able to up with demand, not least the

crisis. and it doesn't seem any politician of any stripe is going to do anything that. so let me let me let me pick up on that, because you've described a bunch of issues , immigration, bunch of issues, immigration, which aren't related what immigration helped with in the 2000 was fully staffed effective pubuc 2000 was fully staffed effective public services. that's why you didn't have to wait more than two days to see a gp . that's why two days to see a gp. that's why there were no waiting times on there were no waiting times on the scale where we've 400,000 people a year for people waiting over a year for an operation and it comes to things like housing the primary issue there was around in the last year of the labour government , brown gordon government, brown and gordon brown's administration. 224,000 homes built. if we are to continue at that rate . much of continue at that rate. much of the housing crisis would have been addressed and the reason we couldn't continue didn't continue austerity continue was partly austerity and the financial crash. one of the that is important the things that is important understand immigration does understand what immigration does and what it doesn't do . because and what it doesn't do. because if you put if you load like issues around housing, on immigration , it'll never be immigration, it'll never be solved because it's around

planning those other planning and some of those other drivers that need to be addressed tonight will be coming to soon because . well, to this very soon because. well, i it's an essential topic i think it's an essential topic i think it's an essential topic i don't think many people trust either when it comes to either party when it comes to immigration. they've told immigration. they've been told time again that numbers time and time again that numbers will down . all they see is will come down. all they see is numbers going up. and of course then there's illegal crossings which seem weirdly impossible to solve. anyway, coming up says it's reviewing future in the uk after . jeremy hunt extended the after. jeremy hunt extended the windfall tax we'll be getting stuck into that very shortly . stuck into that very shortly. coming up on dan wootton tonight all three backlash to england's barnstorming debut in qatar. is it offensive to celebrate excellence? can keir starmer really trusted to tackle the migrant crisis ? plus, liz truss migrant crisis? plus, liz truss loyalist and former member of her cabinet, ronald jayawardena breaks silence on the globalist coup that ousted the 50 day pm.

that's . 9 pm. to 11 pm. on gb that's. 9 pm. to 11 pm. on gb news news .

it's why ended it with having lots of heated debate back here in the studio during break. back with james and co with me emily cava joining me until my panel former mep now conservative life peerin former mep now conservative life peer in the house of lords baroness jacqueline foster and of course as well the editor of labour on uncut now lots you have been getting in touch over immigration question do you trust storm when it comes to weaning our economy off cheap laboun weaning our economy off cheap labour. labour in his words, andrew says , i'm afraid to admit andrew says, i'm afraid to admit that i don't trust anyone westminster to sort out the problem. and i that's pretty fair to be honest. the conservatives haven't done to get immigration down like they

promised. remember their pledge get immigration to tens of thousands. get immigration to tens of thousands . that never seemed to thousands. that never seemed to happen. thousands. that never seemed to happen . and i think sunak's happen. and i think sunak's completely shelved that . at completely shelved that. at least ministers have . david least his ministers have. david says to me, care is being politically opportunist. he is leader, but his employees have far different if they get into power and this is the thing, keir starmer, is pretend in my view, this is only my view pretending to be very but of course he was very happy to stand behind jeremy corbyn. he's very much for borders and everything like that and stand in front of all as many of his backbenchers who are extremely left wing and would like to see open as well. so it does seem like this is a bit of a cynical ploy like this is a bit of a cynical ploy to get the red wool and blue collar back on board with the labour project . call me a the labour project. call me a cynic . carol says there are cynic. carol says there are enough jobs in this that our own can do given proper wage. so many people are better off on benefits. that isn't right . benefits. that isn't right. that's very true. if work doesn't pay , where's the doesn't pay, where's the incentive to go to work? and

that's one of those huge questions that the government should be confronting really now. energy giant says it's evaluating plans to invest now. energy giant says it's evaluating plans to invest £25 billion in the uk over the next ten years after the government extended windfall tax on oil and gas companies. the tax on north sea suppliers was raised from 25% to 35% in the autumn statement and extended to 2028. now this is what some economists warned would happen that these oil and gas companies who , of oil and gas companies who, of course, have investments. all the world might think actually the world might think actually the tax system in the uk doesn't seem to be particularly stable and better off taking my money elsewhere . am i wrong ? i think elsewhere. am i wrong? i think it's an astute communications move by shell . they're sending a move by shell. they're sending a signal , but move by shell. they're sending a signal, but these move by shell. they're sending a signal , but these decisions signal, but these decisions aren't on the on an incremental oil change in a in windfall tax.

it's a ten year decision and that's on some economic fundamentals and their view as to whether that investment going to whether that investment going to pay back in this country. to whether that investment going to pay back in this country . and to pay back in this country. and if we want to look at why corporates business may not be investing , look probably look no investing, look probably look no further than a tanking as to why they think they why they would have less confidence here but i do think evaluating is not same as canning and be amazed if a business of that scale made a choice based on an incremental change in a tax happens which is happening this year. and let's not forget that windfall tax is appued not forget that windfall tax is applied to supernormal profits where they have made eye—watering sums of money, billions upon billions upon billions upon billions upon billions of pounds because of what president putin has done in invading . but jacklyn in this invading. but jacklyn in this country, it does seem to me that , it's probably quite difficult a way for oil and gas companies to understand what in britain

means . we have eco activists , of means. we have eco activists, of course, getting very angry about new exploration fracking is definitely not a goer in this . definitely not a goer in this. the government seems change their mind on taxes every day of their mind on taxes every day of the week . and surely whether the week. and surely whether it's not this particular decision , if there's not decision, if there's not a stable environment for businesses to decide how to invest, isn't that issue? well, it is . and the thing is, you it is. and the thing is, you know, it's all very well sitting saying we're open for business. you know, shell is an anglo—dutch company , bp. i mean anglo—dutch company, bp. i mean these companies hold billions in pension funds . these are not pension funds. these are not sort of johnny come lately companies and they're going to make a quick buck. but these companies and others have been pioneers basically of , you know, pioneers basically of, you know, providing us with energy from the north sea and other areas over decades . you know, whether

over decades. you know, whether people like it or not, percent of fossil fuel is what we need across the planet. i mean that's currently it's 80% of course we can move into alternative ways of doing this but we are reliant in an industrial power is are reliant on these companies doing that now. i think what also missed off there was actually they pay a higher rate of corporation too. so it's not just that 35 or it's gone from 25 to that. they're already paying 25 to that. they're already paying over 60. and they're the companies were saying we're saying to these companies , we saying to these companies, we want you to invest we want you to get cracking. we to make sure that we're not going to be left without obviously energy suppues without obviously energy supplies over the over the future . now to me you're sending future. now to me you're sending out , uh, a future. now to me you're sending out, uh, a mixed and i don't agree with they actually i must, i must the other side because i do completely understand why possibly many people sitting at home watching this are saying these companies are making record profits at a time when all of us are finding harder and

harder to pay our bills and the taxpayers having to subsidise energy bills it's costing us all huge amounts shouldn't . they huge amounts shouldn't. they take the brunt when they're doing so well out of it. well, i think the take brunt anyway and. i think this additional amount we're talking about, i'm not sure how much that is that goes towards your bill or whatever. i just think we have to take it in the round. i mean, i was a great supporter of looking at shale gas extraction and or fracking and. you know, we pushed and, we push for this. we have got energy under our feet in this country where, you know, if you're looking term, we could be virtually actually self—sufficient for which the science doesn't the science doesn't really support that. i well, science does support. let's look being a polluter if i may finish the reason that the reason that we haven't because the national geological society there was a big report on this . there was a big report on this. i and others were not proposing at shale gas extraction because

it was some dangerous thing to do had local authorities and others turned it into a political football and turned around and basically said if you come near anyone near us and they were all councils, you're not going to be to do it. it was on the antiquities issue. it wasn't labour council that were against liz in the we were coming with the developers drawing a red were some it was and i'd like to point that out when it comes the windfall tax and the on the oil companies is simple binary choice for viewers either the comes from supernormal that the oil companies make or it comes from their wallet now something that they are taxed on is going to go something money off their energy bill something that frustrates me about some the discussion about this is this sort of assumption that these and gas companies are there to be demonised and suddenly we could

switch them and we'd be living in some kind of green utopia. do you think that essentially oil and gas companies that we wouldn't need them anymore we don't need anymore. are they done? finished. just two different debates there. there's a debate about the move to a more sustainable planet and move towards that's one towards net zero that's one thing has transition thing and that has transition costs essential costs but essential for all medium term wellbeing. the windfall tax is very much around two things. one, the incredible profits they've made and the fact we're in a bloomin massive hole with massive amounts of debt and someone's got to pay it and that's choices very simple either some of these people have done very well or british taxpayers all this time would well, nick says, let them go. oil is coming to an end. the quicker switch , the less quicker we switch, the less power they have. 25 billion, you can keep it. so there's someone who's presumably very much in favour of windfall and favour of windfall taxes and colin from durham says who can blame windfall and blame them windfall and corporation increase corporation tax increase criminal. ceo of a small criminal. i'm ceo of a small they're going to hammer us with

these tax increases hey do you agree with there at home nick who thinks that oil's coming to an end get rid of them tax them colin or colin who says the government are putting so many up government are putting so many up on these businesses that blame them for rethinking their investment ? this country me investment? this country let me know. coming up, know. but coming up, a conservative think tank resigns. his position. it's not great news for the conservative party at the i say, at the moment. i must say, resigns his position and says the failed his the party has failed his generation he right .

nothing we can start chatting in the break here, gb news. anyway, welcome back to dewbs& co with me, emily joining me as my panel me, emily joining me as my panel. still former mep now conservative live in house of lords baroness jacqueline foster and atal well , the editor of and atal well, the editor of labour on cuts. now i just want to go very to some of your

comments on the windfall because i can see both sides. i can see why people are frustrated with the amount of money that these oil companies making. mike says . what the profiteering? . what about the profiteering? the companies cashed in the oil companies cashed in on? but another viewer who hasn't left a name says no to windfall taxes . totally outrageous. we taxes. totally outrageous. we need these companies. taxes. totally outrageous. we need these companies . we want need these companies. we want the and gas and we need the the oil and gas and we need the new contracts and licences . this new contracts and licences. this is why i worry some of these populist measures windfall populist measures like windfall taxes unintended taxes do have unintended consequences we've in the consequences and we've in the past that windfall taxes oil past that windfall taxes on oil gas to less investment . gas has led to less investment. now the founder of the conservative tank bright blue has quit his position and says the tories are failing his generation. why? in short, house says millennials entered the labour market in the 12 years since the conservatives came into power have been hit by in quotes. punishing housing childcare costs as well . childcare costs as well. stagnant wages . childcare costs as well. stagnant wages. is it more millennial moaning ? does he have millennial moaning? does he have a point? i imagine you sympathise with this. are you a

millennial still out of grief? have you ever been a millennial to a top and a gen x as well? young i think the point he makes is absolutely right . there young i think the point he makes is absolutely right. there is a generational happening . so the generational happening. so the last for the last 50, 60 years, there's been an expert tation as you sort of go through school, you're going to go to work and you'll have a reasonable crack owning your own home. that unless you've got rich parents, if someone a dream that is evaporating for hundreds of thousands, millions people, because it's just out of reach and the sky high rents that that people to buy. i'm lucky i don't have to do that i have a own home but the sky high rents where so much of a wage goes in rent. but you know , i don't i rent. but you know, i don't i don't own own home yet. i'm 30 years old. and something me. i don't what it is, but i don't feel the need to complain about as if it's someone fault

necessarily. but i do take your point. housing costs and also childcare costs are out control. thatis childcare costs are out control. that is true . you know, if you that is true. you know, if you want live in the centre of london , most people are not london, most people are not going to be to buy anything, so they should just up sticks and move. i'm not saying that at all. what i'm saying is i didn't have a mortgage. you'll get somewhere. and i'm in the last century. never. never mind, millennium. love the millennium. i think . and i was well in my i think. and i was well in my thirties and i had a mortgage and i paid 8. but percent an interest rate . and i don't agree interest rate. and i don't agree with . ryan really you know we've with. ryan really you know we've put we i when i was at school very people went to university the working class was a much bigger part of society and then had grammar schools and various things and of us then obviously didn't do jobs that our parents didn't do jobs that our parents did were mine were both sort of blue. they left school at 14. so the opportunities that children

have had over these last decades and the numbers to university which was as you quite rightly say with tony blair they kicked it off. let's go and get more people university. and quite rightly there are going to be that they're going to be doing jobs where they're going to be able to earn more and they're not be looking the not going be looking at the jobs, the sort of blue collar jobs, the sort of blue collar jobs which have to be done. who's going to work in the food processing, for example? is there in there a difference in expectations because? when i speak my parents, they didn't speak to my parents, they didn't go dinner. they didn't go out for dinner. they didn't go out for dinner. they didn't go they didn't by go on holidays. they didn't by themselves. lots of new things. do you think that although housing costs are out of control, young people have , control, young people have, different priorities. they prioritise going, travelling for example, or for going out to bars or restaurants, more so than previous generations. but the fundamental difference is the fundamental difference is the gap between , what you're the gap between, what you're bringing home in your annual salary and it costs to buy a house. salary and it costs to buy a house . 50 years ago , you could

house. 50 years ago, you could buy a house, you know, wherever in or wherever. 8000, 9000, £10,000, whatever were earning. it was within reach. and if you made a little sacrifice if you don't go on holiday, you can get that thing comes within reach. if the gap is hundreds of thousands of pounds, you can stop it and have a car. you can stop it and have a car. you can stop a watching netflix. you can make all the efficient all the savings you want. you're never to in the ballpark of getting to be in the ballpark of getting there. but that lift off of pnces there. but that lift off of prices in house so complicated as well because younger people are taking much more time before they settle down with a partner if they do at all. so no two salaries are better than one. and often there's only because people aren't coupling up as quickly. but i think the conservative, the conservatives have sort of abandoned any emphasis , the family on trying emphasis, the family on trying to help young couples get on and onto the housing ladder. i think that he does have a point . well,

that he does have a point. well, i don't think that's the conservatives particularly think if you look at the way times have moved on when i was 50 years ago i couldn't bought a flat i couldn't afford a place in london i was here in london. i didn't earn enough to work for a company. i couldn't get a big company. i couldn't get home. have got home. i couldn't have got a mortgage. that would have mortgage. and that would have been even an outer london. so, you know i know what you're saying, but then we could look and say, okay, well, if and we could say, okay, well, if people get married, don't we people get married, why don't we pay people get married, why don't we pay person's pay a married person's allowance? and then, of course, that was always ruled out because have moved on. because times have moved on. a lot people cohabit, they lot of people cohabit, they don't then don't get married and then nominate and then that was seen as being discriminatory because somebody was married that somebody was not married that they be failed. it was like a minefield, frankly . it wasn't minefield, frankly. it wasn't about and also it's interventionism not reforming very quickly and also spurred on for four different countries , for four different countries, the emphasis on home ownership is bigger in the uk than anywhere because more people certainly on the continent tend to rent. yeah, and it's not only rent for life and they don't

find a an issue with it we've always done you know bricks mortar. if we and i support that but that's not much of a that's not much. i mean as a young person you know if your parents have had a house and your grandparents have had a house of course you want a house. that's part of all a whole generation that pulled us so kelsall that pulled us out. so kelsall praise millennial is sulking praise a millennial is sulking because the world isn't set up for own that's for his own benefit. that's a bit harsh, paul, but i do get your point. absolutely. the answer here is very the answer here is very quick. the answer here is very quick. the answer here is very quick. the answer here about answer here isn't about a married couples tax. and it's that's help someone buy that's going to help someone buy a won't be of the a house. it won't be of the scale. the issue is building more now, i'm sorry. more homes. now, i'm so sorry. i'm getting out in my i'm getting shouted out in my ear. i'm getting shouted out in my ean been i'm getting shouted out in my ear. been sending ear. you've been sending in your which won't able to come which i won't be able to come to. but thank you so much for me this evening . course. jacqueline this evening. course. jacqueline foster, mep , baroness for foster, former mep, baroness for life life peer and also well how well who is from labour uncut thank you very much will be with us at 7:00 nigel what's up on your show . thank

us at 7:00 nigel what's up on your show. thank you very much . your show. thank you very much. debate. well you could knock down with a feather here we now have a labour party who are to the right of the party on. it's almost unbelievable what with starmer's speech today to the cbi made it clear got to start training our own people stop relying on imports labour i'll be asking and debating who do you the public now trust more on this key question of immigration . but before all of that let's get the weather. hello it's aidan mcgivern here from the met . showers will ease in many places overnight leading to a clear and chilly night, at least at first before more rain arrives in the west. later that coming quite quickly from the atlantic courtesy of this low and this area of weather fronts well ahead of another sets of weather fronts clearing from the east and northeast bringing some wet weather to orkney the early part of the evening. that wet

weather pushing into shetland along with some force winds. otherwise lighter winds, clear spells for many and for scotland, northern and eastern , scotland, northern and eastern, a widespread frost temperatures , close to zero, if not a little in some sheltered spots , but a in some sheltered spots, but a different story for northern ireland. wales in the southwest here it's a wet , windy start to here it's a wet, windy start to the day, a mildest as well. but the day, a mildest as well. but the rain will be , even if it is the rain will be, even if it is fairly short lived, it pushes through the rest of england , through the rest of england, into scotland by lunchtime and it tends to ease into showers by the end of afternoon. but further follow it for northern ireland for wales western england. these showers be heavy they'll be frequent and be accompanied by a gusty wind that we know coming from the southwest will be a little milder 12 celsius in the south, ten celsius further north the, rain and wind in the far north. so the shetland and orkney will continue into wednesday evening. otherwise much of it's otherwise much of the uk it's just clear spells and further those again coming in those showers again coming in from affecting from the west mostly affecting central and areas the greatest chance of spells towards the east where do get some shelter

from the breeze on thursday morning temperatures will dip into the mid to low single figures but i think a widespread is unlikely because of the gusty breeze that many areas will experience and that continues into thursday into the start of thursday further showers in the west, in the thing. this next the north thing. then this next band of intense but relatively moving rain moves through accompanied again by gusty winds . but those winds are coming from the south southwest. so there's a warming trend through there's a warming trend through the next few days and the weekend, even if there is more weather .

tonight, on average, a storm talked off. we discuss who . do talked off. we discuss who. do you trust most on immigration labour or the conservatives ?

labour or the conservatives? we'll have a