hello and welcome. i'm alastair stewart and for the next 2 hours i'll be keeping you company on tv and radio with the stories that really matter across the country . we have plenty, country. we have plenty, including just two of the

conservatives and just who are labour. conservatives and just who are labour . what conservatives and just who are labour. what do conservatives and just who are labour . what do they actually labour. what do they actually stand for with a general election looming in the distance 7 election looming in the distance .7 are they now beginning to rebrand .7 i'll be talking about rebrand.7 i'll be talking about that to a range of guests from across the political spectrum. and we really want to hear what your thoughts are as well. but first, let's bring you right up to date with all of the day's news. here's tatiana sanchez . news. here's tatiana sanchez. thank you, alice took it afternoon. it's 12:01. this is afternoon. it's12:01. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. the government says the online safety bill will be updated next month to criminalise the encouragement of self—harm . it encouragement of self—harm. it said the changes have been influenced by mollie russell, the 14 year old who ended her life in 2017 after viewing content linked to suicide and self—harm. the new bill would target online material that manipulates the vulnerable , manipulates the vulnerable, making it illegal to do so. well, alice hendy is the founder of the suicide prevention

charity . she lost her brother to charity. she lost her brother to suicide and says the bill should have come out sooner. the online safety bill itself has taken far too long to come out . i mean, too long to come out. i mean, we've seen countless delays , we've seen countless delays, countless revisions. it's seen revisions now under three prime ministers this is an urgent bill. and the longer we leave it , the more lives. unfortunately are going to be destroyed and the more families out there are going to feel like mine. the more families out there are going to feel like mine . cases going to feel like mine. cases of diphtheria among asylum seekers in a kent migrant centre are thought to have risen. it's after a man at the manchester migrant processing centre is thought to have died from the disease . concerns have been disease. concerns have been raised over the spread of the infection as people were moved from the overcrowded facility to hotels around country . the hotels around the country. the government is expected to announce tomorrow the number of infections has climbed to around 50. protests against covid

lockdown measures are continuing in china after ten people died in china after ten people died in a tower block fire in urumqi . demonstrators claim coronavirus measures which have seen residents locked down for as long as 100 days, may have impeded their escape. civil unrest has now spread to shanghaiand unrest has now spread to shanghai and beijing at a level unseen since president xi jinping took office with chants calling for him to resign. yesterday, china reported a record number of covid cases for a third day in a row. the of more search and rescue operations are continuing today following a landslide that killed a woman in southern italy yesterday. the island of ischia in naples was engulfed by heavy rain, causing a mudslide that flooded homes and swept away cars. around 100 people living close to the landslide area have been evacuated and ten people are still missing . greater are still missing. greater manchester police say a man whose body was found covered in

potentially hazardous substances was sprayed with acid . 38 year was sprayed with acid. 38 year old liam smith body was found in the streets in the kilburn drive area of wigan on thursday. he'd also been shot. the area was quickly cordoned off and residents who were feeling unwell at the time urged to contact authorities. a murder investigation is ongoing and another murder investigation is underway after 216 year old boys were stabbed to death in south—east london. the incidents happened early yesterday evening , around a mile apart in greenwich . police were granted greenwich. police were granted additional search powers to determine if the murders were unked. determine if the murders were linked . the met police have said linked. the met police have said is fully prepared for potential activists disruption in london ahead of christmas . the force ahead of christmas. the force believes just a poor protest is a planning activity in the capital from tomorrow until the 14th of december. it said it has policing measures, measures in place to respond to that

disruption. the climate group has been using civil resistance as part of its campaign to stop future gas and oil projects, including holding up the m25 . including holding up the m25. the prince and princess of wales have paid tribute to rugby union great doddie weir, who died yesterday, aged 52. in a tweet , yesterday, aged 52. in a tweet, the royal couple called the former scotland international and british and irish lion a hero and inspiration where he had suffered from motor neurone disease since 2016. use his profile to raise awareness of the condition and generate funds through his charity foundation. paul thompson , director of paul thompson, director of fundraising for my name's dottie, says his legacy is the fight against mmd . so the fight against mmd. so the foundation has been focussed on a world free of harm and that's the vision we have and that's the vision we have and that's the vision we have and that's the vision that he's set us on, is the vision that he's left us. so until we make real progress and continue to make real progress effective progress for effective treatments condition.

treatments for the condition. the work still not done. so his legacy we legacy is that progress that we make energy and the make against energy and the queen consort is to break with the time old tradition of having ladies in waiting . opting for ladies in waiting. opting for queen's companions instead. buckingham palace has announced the names of the six women who support commander in her official duties in addition to her private and deputy private secretaries . it's believed the secretaries. it's believed the companions were to be similar, but not as extensive as the late queen ladies in waiting . this is queen ladies in waiting. this is gb news. we'll bring you more news as it happens. now it's back to alastair stewart& friends . friends. tatyana, thank you very much indeed. at the start of this week , there were two week, there were two extraordinary political interventions that may just have put everything in play , not put everything in play, not least what our two biggest

political parties are actually all about. and what they look and sound like come the next general election. first, labour's sir keir starmer told the cbi annual conference in birmingham and i quote, i come with a simple message. labour is ready to give britain the clear economic leadership it needs . economic leadership it needs. ready to work with you to drive our country forward . not just our country forward. not just a pro—business party, but a party thatis pro—business party, but a party that is proud of being pro—business. that is proud of being pro—business . the respects , the pro—business. the respects, the contributions profit makes to jobs growth and our taxpayer . jobs growth and our taxpayer. and gets working people success as well as support and understands that backing private enterprise is the only way that britain pays its way in the world. mark, my words, that is a matter of conviction , he said matter of conviction, he said for me and i've united my party behind it. that from the leader of a party that within living memory aspired to take control of the commanding heights of the

economy and still toys with renationalisation of the railways and the water industry . now, the same day in the times newspaper , lord danny newspaper, lord danny finkelstein wrote , and again i finkelstein wrote, and again i quote if the tories lose in 2024, the party will need to change in order to win again. it's not hard to imagine what sort of things it will need to do to recover support . and do to recover support. and since, let's face it, it probably will lose . it may as probably will lose. it may as well get to work right now . gulp well get to work right now. gulp and do bear in mind that from a top tory, someone who was an aide to a former party leader. so i just thought that really chucked a hand grenade into all of it. so i've invited a brilliant array of guests from across the political spectrum to reflect on those claims and assertions , to see if something assertions, to see if something really profound is unfolding in our politics. but i also want to know what you think . is labour

know what you think. is labour really , truly reformed? and is really, truly reformed? and is the party fully behind ? sir keir the party fully behind? sir keir starmer . is the party fully behind? sir keir starmer. is it a political home that you might even consider? have the tories and you just saw if you're watching on television . rishi sunak standing there at the dispatch box. but have they lost their way? and are they heading for certain defeat as danny finkelstein suggested? is there anything that either can do to win you back? if you were once a supporter and what are the burning issues that you would put at the top of your agenda for either or both of them, as we inch toward that general election, we genuinely love to hear from you. so do sendin love to hear from you. so do send in your thoughts and i'll read out the best as we go along. as always, you can email gbviews@gbnews.uk or you can tweet at gb news. or you can tweet at gb news. or you can tweet me directly and you can go on facebook. so get engaged. i noficed on facebook. so get engaged. i noticed already from my phone that you have so the team outside well going through that and will will bring some good

ones to you. very, very shortly. and i wanted to kick off this conversation with a good friend of shaun is a of uninsured worth. shaun is a former downing street adviser , former downing street adviser, now a political commentator . but now a political commentator. but also, more importantly, he used to run the conservative party. policy unit. i'm i did think that the let's start with the finkelstein contract was truly extraordinary and the party needs a fundamental rethink about what it stands for, what it believes in, partly predicated because lord finkelstein thinks it's almost certain that the tories are going to lose the next general election. leave that in the margin just for a moment. but a rethink, a rebrand , a rethink, a rebrand, a repositioning . i think , you repositioning. i think, you know, on the face of it. yes. and you know, versus you know, because come in to lead the party after, you know, pretty disastrous string of events that we've talked about before. and here the big issue for the tories is that they are traditionally a party of low tax , you know, controlled immigration , security, armed

immigration, security, armed forces , all of that. and what's forces, all of that. and what's happenedin forces, all of that. and what's happened in very recent times is the absolute billions has been spent on covid recovery and there's just no money left to do anything particularly . and if anything particularly. and if you cut taxes at the moment, this is what this is why the markets reacted really badly to this trust. she tried to do what you're suggesting. yes, but couldn't because of the economy and rishi, think, is in a in and rishi, i think, is in a in a very difficult place because he knows can't do that. knows that. so he can't do that. red meat stuff that the tories. do you think he would have been phlegmatic, that phlegmatic, philosophical, that when undoubtedly when he read undoubtedly he would have done danny finkelstein in the times. yeah, i think we're in the position now where you have to have a pragmatic conservative party actually looking beyond the immediate. back sort actually looking beyond the im400 ate. back sort actually looking beyond the im400 years back sort actually looking beyond the im400 years of back sort actually looking beyond the im400 years of the back sort actually looking beyond the im400 years of the conservative of 400 years of the conservative party's it's been a pretty party's life, it's been a pretty pragmatic party. it's been ideological and not ideological sometimes. and not all time. and at moment all the time. and at the moment it's pragmatic party that it's just a pragmatic party that makes boring we're makes a very boring and we're probably at a party probably looking at a party that's going to go into the election economic management

election on economic management . already seen sunak . and already you've seen sunak has overtaken or at least come level with starmer on economic competence , even though he's competence, even though he's about behind in the polls about 18/% behind in the polls right which looks like right now, which looks like a absolute wipe—out in the next general election . so they're general election. so they're going to probably be coming in on, are to on, you know, we are going to manage these really tough times, don't this at risk by don't put this at risk by bringing other lot. but bringing in the other lot. but you with a budget and a you know, with a budget and a set of economic beliefs that the membership the conservative membership of the conservative party clearly along party clearly don't go along with, trust and they with, they wanted trust and they wanted catering they wanted the catering budget. they wanted the catering budget. they wanted party. wanted growth, not his party. i mean, see this week planning mean, you see this week planning is absolutely critical to housing, energy, infrastructure, everything that happened in the autumn statement, the sunak and the said that they the chancellor said that they wanted to and his the wanted to do and his the conservative party, all his colleagues saying we're not going do anything going to let you do anything on planning. it's i know you've had people this week on your channel talking incredibly talking about this is incredibly short sighted by party short sighted by the party because ultimately people who own vote conservative and own homes vote conservative and they're breaking that link and they're breaking that link and they destroy themselves they will destroy themselves as a it . he's in a

they will destroy themselves as a it. he's in a really a result of it. he's in a really difficult place. and keir starmer, as you showed, he's reaching to business and you reaching out to business and you know, he's saying we've changed. we're not jeremy corbyn anymore, we're different. i chose it and read it out slowly because it wasn't only that, it was the language of it. it reminded me of blair and the clause for a moment and kinnock reading moment and neil kinnock reading the to the militant and the riot act to the militant and what have you. didn't only what have you. he didn't only say, ready to govern. say, we're ready to govern. that's luck to that's his view and good luck to him . he said, embrace big him. he said, we embrace big business, we stand by big business. we recognise that growth and growth alone pays for pubuc growth and growth alone pays for public services and pays for everything that you want from this country. and they applauded him. yeah, yeah. he's he's tony blair with no charisma. he's doing exactly the same thing in the 1997 campaign. it worked for tony blair. will it work for him? you know, that's the gamble they're trying to play. and the challenging thing for the tory party is that party right now is that businesses respond . not businesses respond. it's not just he's saying. business just what he's saying. business is to it positively is responding to it positively and out press and and coming out in the press and saying it. that's the real saying it. and that's the real challenge. final question

challenge. so final question then, part then, sean, was the other part that finkelstein made correct is there anything that can be done either on the policy front, on the marketing front, on the pr from that? can turn this party's fortunes around or are they doomed? think well, i think doomed? i think well, i think it's a real challenge. and a lot of tories i know are already giving up their thinking about giving up their thinking about giving their seats. some giving up their seats. some have. they're thinking have. and what they're thinking is limits the damage is that sunak limits the damage rather an election . rather than wins an election. but i a win is but i think a win is underpriced. i do. and think underpriced. i do. and i think that you're going to the that when you're going to the you go recession, you know, we go into recession, there will be strikes and the gamble will be stick with us. we're don't we're making progress. don't change. it's a risk. but he change. now it's a risk. but he has to deliver. he has to build stuff. he to get planning, stuff. he has to get planning, you has get homes built you know, has to get homes built all his party don't all the things his party don't want him to do. that's the big challenge next to extraordinary. sean pleasure see sean always a pleasure to see you. you very much indeed you. thank you very much indeed for coming this sunday. for coming in this sunday. talk to care. have a have to us and take care. have a have a left of the day. a good what's left of the day. thank you very much indeed, sean, that former number thank you very much indeed, sea insiderthat former number thank you very much indeed, sea insider and former number thank you very much indeed, sea insider and policy' number thank you very much indeed, sea insider and policy unit, ber thank you very much indeed, seainsider and policy unit, i'm ten insider and policy unit, i'm delighted to say now that i'm

joined another good joined by another very good friend sir peter friend of mine, sir peter bottomley, who is the conservative member of parliament worthing and parliament for worthing west and indeed the house. indeed is father of the house. peter, to see you. thank peter, great to see you. thank you your you for breaking into your sunday to us. what did sunday to talk to us. what did you make of danny finkelstein's piece well, he's piece in the times? well, he's right and i think the right. and i think the encouraging thing is that people thought couldn't win thought ted heath couldn't win the they thought the 1970 election. they thought john win the 1992 john major couldn't win the 1992 election. if he can have a election. so if he can have a belief we can win, we need to do the now which make it the things now which make it likely rather than wait until we possibly lose. and then do things the time off things like we win the time off to that, i don't know if you were able to hear, but sean worth was just there's worth was just saying there's a there's problem in that in the there's a problem in that in the sense that on the stuff that the membership of the party want on the economy, can't do on the economy, he can't do on things housing and things like housing and planning. he seems reluctant to do it and there isn't room to do it. and on on migration , he's it. and on on migration, he's getting a hammering from every which way the election could be just less than a year away. peter but the election will come when it will come before january

20, 25. i think that if i can use a cliche of reading the pitch, if government has said when the immigration figures come out, it will include the hong kongers , it will include hong kongers, it will include the people from ukraine, it includes some of the other people in other conflicts . and people in other conflicts. and then let's look at what the underlying figures are, including those who cross unauthorised on the illegally cross channel. people have understood that better on the planning. don't take side, don't take the headlines seriously. if you talk to the members of the conservative environmental network who are the bnp who want to stop the top down planning , i to stop the top down planning, i think that you if you trust local government, you'll get many more homes built in ways that are acceptable to those who have and those who have have homes and those who have green way green fields. so see a way forward on that without controversy. underlying controversy. and the underlying point is that the conservative party at base is not an ideological party, but a national interest party. that means having local interests as well. and i commend that party

and i'll set to riches to next. i get the chance . look what my i get the chance. look what my great grandfather did in 1906 in london, where he helped create the london municipal society , the london municipal society, the london municipal society, the mr. reformer stood and kept control of london for 25 years. that's the way forward . does it that's the way forward. does it surprise you, given your your years of experience , it's that years of experience, it's that so many bright young stars , even so many bright young stars, even people behind the red wall like dehenna davison his good friend of mine used to work here at gb news as well, have decided that the outlook is so gloomy that they're calling it a day . right they're calling it a day. right now they are declaring publicly that they're not going to raise that they're not going to raise that income, that election, whatever is . well, it's whatever it is. well, it's fairly normal that the first member of parliament i remember meeting called nigel meeting was a man called nigel davis , got elected in 1950 davis, who got elected in 1950 and down 1951 because he and stood down 1951 because he thought it wasn't quite the him people who are employees people who are former employees can amazing jobs. you only can do amazing jobs. you only have to around to see . it have to look around to see. it was labour mp, for example, was one labour mp, for example, who did one term is now chief

economist at the institute of directors. they're sorts of directors. they're all sorts of contributions you can make contributions that you can make outside palace of outside of the palace of westminster. it nine westminster. so i think it nine out over 350 employees have out of over 350 employees have already said in front of the deadune already said in front of the deadline that 30 december they're not starting again. that's a normal number at mobile number. how big a danger in your reading is reform uk ? they came reading is reform uk? they came from nowhere but are now beginning to wave a little flag or two in the opinion polls. beginning to wave a little flag or two in the opinion polls . and or two in the opinion polls. and it reminded me of what the fdp did to labour back in the late seventies, early eighties and a little bit of what brexit and ukip did to your own party in the run up to the referendum . the run up to the referendum. well, it's obviously a danger if you split the non—labor vote, you split the non—labor vote, you end up with labour. if you split the non—labor vote, you end up the alliance in government of labour, greens, lib dems, possibly the snp. sir keir starmer denies he would do that. i think we need to just again go back to perhaps the 2017 election, but the snp only

got 37% of the vote in scotland . tories got 44% across the country as a whole . i think if country as a whole. i think if we get the approach rates in scotland now that nicholas sturgeon and snp have made a mistake of a devolution constitution , we can get the constitution, we can get the tories up in scotland and we can make people think that actually having the labour coalition having the anti labour coalition called the tory party working is better than the conservative one which would do it. i think many people think a lot of damage to the country's long term interests. how fascinating . interests. how fascinating. final question then. you are an honourable and honest man. i've known you long enough to know that never flinched from it at all. starmer appeared to all. keir starmer appeared to impress the cbi themselves with what he said. you've been around long enough to know whether this is just a another labour leader toying with profit and growth of the restaurant , toying with profit and growth of the restaurant, or did you think he really meant it and that it was a it was a moment of change, a moment of shift. every labour leader does what i think is going to be best for the country. so act it did in 1935,

but he was chosen in preference to morrison because he is more of on the pacifist side then in the those days no the government. in those days no change re—arming enough. change was not re—arming enough. i jeremy corbyn was i think the jeremy corbyn was honest and sincere. think keir honest and sincere. i think keir starmer is the problem. keir starmer's is when he was starmer's got is when he was chosen jeremy corbyn, chosen to succeed jeremy corbyn, having tried to get jeremy corbyn in as prime minister, he said a number of things which is not now. think not saying now. i think consistently it helps. keir starmer well i hope he goes on being leader opposition being leader of the opposition after well . after next election as well. that's why i included my quote that line . he said that the that line. he said that the party is foursquare behind me and i'll be asking one or two mutual friends the labour mutual friends from the labour side that is actually side whether that is actually true not. just a moment, true or not. in just a moment, my question to is an my final question to you is an odd one, it comes from the odd one, but it comes from the heart rather than from all of the data and stuff like that. occasionally in our great politics, not democracy , politics, not democracy, democracy, it's simply time for a change. cabinet knew that and john major knew that. do you sense a little that this might just be time for a change? whatever that outcome is ? no,

whatever that outcome is? no, don't . i whatever that outcome is? no, don't. i think it's time to put national interests first. and i think that the conservative party have been trying to do that. we've made some mistakes. we've acknowledged those mistakes. i think we can do it better the other side. and better than the other side. and if we put forward the next election, the policies are right for the nation. they'd be wrong for the nation. they'd be wrong for to lose. so peter , thank for us to lose. so peter, thank you much indeed for you very much indeed for breaking into sunday to breaking into your sunday to talk my best to both of talk to us. my best to both of you look forward to seeing you and look forward to seeing you and look forward to seeing you soon as thank you you very soon as well. thank you very indeed. speak of very much indeed. speak of ultimately concerned ultimately that concerned member of west of parliament for worthing west . and said, the father of . and as i said, the father of the house of commons, man who has been in there for longer than anybody else, always a delight to talk to him. let's got on with our main theme again and i'm delighted to be joined by friend who knows by another friend who knows what's on and perhaps why. what's going on and perhaps why. there it's henry hill. there he is. it's henry hill. henry is the assistant editor of conservative home, which is a very influential conservative website . also something of website. also something of a talk shop for conservatives ,

talk shop for conservatives, whether they be the great, the high and the mighty or ordinary conservatives out in the country, what do you personally make and what did your subscribers make of the finkelstein intervention ? well, finkelstein intervention? well, we haven't polled our members on the on the finkelstein intervention, although i think many of them will probably agree with it. he's he's he's ultimately right. the conservative party is currently caught between two stools. it's trapped halfway in the transformation between what it was in david cameron's day , was in david cameron's day, which is sort of a slightly traditional post thatcherite, you know, liberal, conservative party, a bit cavalier, perhaps on some issues, but fundamentally and the south better off voters economic liberalism . and on the other liberalism. and on the other hand you've got boris johnson was moving towards which is which is a conservative party that's much more heavily focussed on what is broadly called the red wall. you know , called the red wall. you know, sort of less well—off voters, northern constituencies , a more northern constituencies, a more relaxed approach to public spending and all the rest of it. now either of those is a

perfectly viable and intellectually coherent conservative programme and programme for government, albeit one of them is probably a bit more likely to succeed than the other. but the problem is that currently it's both. now, if you're and you've got this you're boris and you've got this amazing ability of keep amazing ability to kind of keep everyone guessing about, you're really that's it really doing that's great. it can a landslide can deliver you a landslide majority , as in 2019. but majority, as we saw in 2019. but the problem is you can't really then use that majority for very much without alienating different bits of your coalition. the tories need to work they're for . yeah, work out what they're for. yeah, absolutely. sure worth absolutely. but they sure worth who you know very well. but also peter bottomley there just a moment about the moment ago talking about the national interest strikes national interest and it strikes me think shaun agree with me and i think shaun agree with it that what the party really wants ironically is what liz truss and kwasi kwarteng were offering and the markets rejected and the rejected it and the establishment rejected it and it fell by the wayside that budget was dropped and we've now got the establishment in charge the establishment back in charge . it's proving very difficult for this party that did have, i agree with you, a majority of

eight because it gave the voters what they wanted on brexit to wreak connect with this electorate who want something very different. and we're now looking at jeremy hunt there on tax and spending than he is able to give them . yeah, but i don't to give them. yeah, but i don't think any tory government could realistically do it. or indeed i think a labour will think a labour government will struggle fundamentally struggle because fundamentally you're caught between fact you're caught between the fact that one hand, yes, that on the one hand, yes, labour want taxes. the labour want lower taxes. the conservatives traditionally labour want lower taxes. the conservatparty traditionally labour want lower taxes. the conservatparty traditaxes..y labour want lower taxes. the conservatparty traditaxes. on been the party of no taxes. on the hand, the state is the other hand, the state is just more expensive, you just getting more expensive, you know, that no one know, control bits that no one wants cut education. the nhs, wants to cut education. the nhs, pensions, welfare. the cost of that going and means that is going up and that means that is going up and that means that you've really got two options. if you to cut you options. if you want to cut you either cut spending you either can't cut spending or you end up where we are at the minute where the other bits of the like the court system the state like the court system are being funded are simply not being funded enough work properly. so enough to even work properly. so there really the leeway there isn't really the leeway for truss his idea for tax cuts. liz truss his idea which markets rejected, was which the markets rejected, was that without saying how that she cut without saying how she and hope she paid for and hope that growth paid bill. but growth paid off the bill. but now it's clear that wasn't the right space do that. it's right space to do that. it's hard to see how any conservative

government could realistically cut that crisp cut taxes, but does that crisp analysis danny finkelstein analysis make danny finkelstein other and that other point? correct. and that is this party, the is that this party, the conservative party, is heading for inevitable defeat at the next election because it simply cannot deliver on all of those issues that you've just outlined and that sean was outlining that the membership want and many people out in the country want . people out in the country want. i'd say it's nothing is of a certain in british politics i don't think but at the moment i would say it's definitely more likely than not that the conservatives will lose. i think a big question labour is a big question for labour is they inherit exactly the they will inherit exactly the same there's same economic situation. there's only you can do with only so much you can do with a couple of windfall taxes. they won't be to them won't be able to fix them ehhen won't be able to fix them either. and so i think that's a much bigger question. facing both a deal are both parties is all a deal are the the country is the way we run the country is going to have to fundamentally change? no party talking change? no party is talking about yeah. reform of about that. yeah yeah. reform of uk about that reform uk all talking about that reform uk all talking about that reform uk about smallest uk we're talking about smallest state, and lower state, lower taxes and lower spending liz truss and spending before liz truss and kwasi were no go. so kwasi kwarteng were no go. so reform. yeah i reform uk. i

don't think have any answers for how you do that because the big question is if you want a smaller state and low taxes, the question you have to ask is are you going to reform the nhs so that rich people habitually pay for or are you going for that care or are you going to you to cut welfare to are you going to cut welfare reform? uk haven't explained how they're cut taxes they're going to cut taxes without bits of the without cutting bits of the state that people like and i think that's the reason the tories unnecessary. tories probably unnecessary. you're them. yet you're too scared of them. yet if doing that, that if they start doing that, that would worthwhile would be a very worthwhile contribution to the conversation. seen conversation. but i haven't seen it from reform uk so and it from reform uk so far. and final question and we're all for balance. i know your conservative leave but conservative leave home, but i know watch the entire know you watch the entire spectrum of politics as indeed do i. did you find keir starmer at the cbi convincing particularly that bit where he said growth good , big business said growth good, big business good and my party is behind me in telling you that i'm not. i think starmer could well believe it. i'm not entirely sure his party does. and again, it's hard to see how labour, with the best foot in the world, this isn't

spot on. the tories can do it ehhen spot on. the tories can do it either. it's hard to see how how labour deliver. you know how to labour deliver. you know how to labour on lowering labour deliver on lowering immigration. do immigration. the tories can't do it. against labour and it. it's against what labour and ps really want to do. the means to do it really there. so to do it aren't really there. so hopefully he proved wrong. hopefully he proved me wrong. very did, i want a very happy if he did, i want a good government in country good government in this country or party, but don't or whatever party, but i don't really starmer it. really think starmer can do it. how intriguing. but if he could, you wouldn't rule out as you wouldn't rule it out as a possibility. the possibility. which, for the assistant of conservative assistant editor of conservative for an extraordinary for home is an extraordinary thing to say. well, ultimately, i conservative i want the conservative government more than anything else as a preference. do i want this country to be well—governed? and, know, well—governed? and, you know, ultimately, we live in a democracy change democracy where things change hands. could provide hands. if labour could provide a good britain, good government for britain, that's i think that's a good thing. and i think labour will probably say labour people will probably say the same thing about how intriguing final intriguing echoing the final point peter point from the great sir peter bottomley, it's the national interest comes first for interest that comes first for all and us hope that all of them and let us hope that they all remember henry they all remember it. henry great you. thank you great to talk to you. thank you very indeed finding very much indeed for finding time for us this sunday afternoon. henry there, the afternoon. henry hill there, the assistant of assistant editor of conservativehome, now, there's no in the world

conservativehome, now, there's no politics. in the world conservativehome, now, there's no politics. our in the world conservativehome, now, there's no politics. our politicalnorld of politics. our political correspondent joins correspondent tom harwood joins me what is going on, me to discuss what is going on, including those nine tory mp who decide to step down, but first, let's bring you up to date with the weather . looking ahead to the weather. looking ahead to this afternoon in the uk is looking cloudy and damp in the southeast but bright and blustery in the northwest . let's blustery in the northwest. let's take a look at the details . take a look at the details. scotland will retain a fresh breeze this afternoon with scattered showers pushing into the northwest. these could be heavy at times, accompanied by hail the odd rumble thunder hail and the odd rumble thunder . northern ireland see . northern ireland will see blustery showers and bright spells as well . temperatures spells as well. temperatures will slightly down compared will be slightly down compared to saturday, highs around to saturday, with highs around ten celsius. northern england will have a dry second half of the weekend. the winds will be lighter compared to yesterday. so less brisk outside as so feeling less brisk outside as well as much of wales will be dry. showers will begin feeding into the west along with some sunnier spells. any sunshine in the east will be rather hazy behind the clouds. could behind the clouds. there could behind the clouds. there could be some weak sunshine across central england as well, with

the thickest cloud continuing to lift. wide grey skies lift. but even wide grey skies prevail. it will remain predominantly dry throughout this afternoon . southeast this afternoon. southeast england see the wettest england will see the wettest afternoon with outbreaks of rain and drizzle, possibly heavy at times. it will be mildest , times. it will be mildest, though, climbing towards 13 celsius. this rain will likely affect areas from hampshire eastwards, with the potential for some disruption to travel . for some disruption to travel. southwest england will get away with a drier afternoon if still rather cloudy overall. the rain in the southeast will gradually clear during the evening, whilst blustery showers continue pushing into the west. blustery showers continue pushing into the west . and pushing into the west. and that's how the weather is shaping up for the rest of the day .

good afternoon. as 1231. this is the latest from the gb newsroom.

the government's says the online safety bill is going to be updated next month to criminalise the encouragement of self—harm. it said the changes have been influenced by mollie russell's , the 14 year old who russell's, the 14 year old who ended her life in 2017 after viewing content linked to suicide and self—harm. the bill would target online material that manipulates the vulnerable , making it illegal to do so. cases of diphtheria among asylum seekers and a kent migrant centre are thought to have risen . it's after a man at the overcrowded aided ftx migrant processing centre is thought to have died from the disease. the government is expected to announce tomorrow the number of infections has climbed to around 50. carrie symonds to police say a man whose body was found covered in potentially hazardous substances was shot and sprayed with acid. 38 year old liam smith body was found in the street in wigan on foot on thursday. the area was cordoned

off and residents are urged to contact authorities if they felt unwell at the time. a murder investigation is ongoing and the queen consort is to break with the time old tradition of having ladies in waiting . opting for ladies in waiting. opting for queen's companions instead. buckingham palace has announced the names of the six women who will support camilla in her official duties. in addition to her private and deputy private secretaries, it is believed the companions work will be similar , but not as extensive as the late queen's ladies waiting . late queen's ladies in waiting. tv online and dab+ radio. this is gb news. now alexa is back to you . you. tatyana, thanks very much indeed. we're about the state of politics and thanks to graeme grey, who says both parties aren't rebranding. they're in the grip of an identity crisis. both would be wise to start 2023

by presenting an ambitious and cohesive vision for the country. well, there's a challenge for them all grains. thank you very much indeed. keep those messages coming in. it's already been another busy week in politics. i hope we've clear so far in the programme conservatives have announced that quite a few of them that they will not be standing at the next general action. as i put to my earlier guests, the latest being chris skidmore, who is the member of parliament, conservative member of parliament, of course, for kingswood, and is also rishi sunak's , net zero tsar and the sunak's, net zero tsar and the rebellion continues to grow within the conservative party as increasing numbers of mp support overturning a ban on onshore wind farms, including members of the cabinet and a couple of former prime ministers as well . former prime ministers as well. joining me now live in the studio is the man who knows the answer to all of this. our political correspondent tom harwood. first of all, on the those who are bailing out pretty early, including our mutual

friend who you wrote a piece about the other day, peter bottomley, said it happens. it doesn't surprise me. the numbers are are not that huge . nine is are are not that huge. nine is quite a lot it's quite a lot and it's growing their expectation is that perhaps up to 18 may well stand down and the question is why is this all happening. well ultimatum was really well an ultimatum was really given to conservative mps by sisi hq. the conservative campaign headquarters, what used to be known as central office. they've said that mpps must tell them whether or not they wish to stand at the next election by the 5th of december. now this is important because we've just seen revised boundary changes being put forward by the boundary commission and some of these seats being carved up, some are going to see tory mp fight tory mp for the right to the sort of new merged seats. in some cases , and this has brought some cases, and this has brought about queues of request for maps to see whether or not they will see these and they make your mind up time. exactly. and to

some extent this has crystallised the view of many conservative mp who have been pretty miserable for the last few months. i haven't seen conservative mps this dour since really may 2019, when brexit didn't happen. and then we had the european elections and that fast and the tories got 9% of the vote. that was the sort of mood that i think is reflected now in politics, which is remarkable given that it's only two years. the conservatives won the historical point that sean werth and henry hill from conservative home both made in our earlier conversation as well. it was to say that the real problem in the light of danny finkelstein's rethink article in the times is , is that article in the times is, is that this tory government, even with its majority, cannot deliver on the kind of policies that many of those mps want, not least housing and planning, which you've written about great length, certainly not on the economy and it would seem not even on immigration . no. it's

even on immigration. no. it's interesting that this to be even though the government now has a notional majority of around 70 of these by elections , even of these by elections, even though it has that large majority in the house of commons to some extent it feels like we're being governed by a hung parliament. the conservative party is not unite it? on many, many issues you've got disparate parts of its voting coalition you've got the blue wall in the south and the red wall in the north, and you've got different views within the conservative party as well. but perhaps most crucially you've got a whipping operation intents operation has, to all intents and purposes broke down. perhaps it was not quite there since covid and all of these new mpas came in. they didn't have the normal incubation into parliament because as parliament because almost as soon they were elected, they soon as they were elected, they went to their went back off to their constituent seats, didn't have the socialisation the normal socialisation and sort whipping structures, and sort of whipping structures, and they started rebelling a lot dunng they started rebelling a lot during that time. we remember the rashford campaign, the marcus rashford campaign, for , a number of for example, and a number of other issues where mps were much more independent minded , stopped more independent minded, stopped acting of herd , as

acting as a sort of herd, as they often do in westminster and perhaps an effect of perhaps that's an effect of covid or perhaps it's an effect of social media and the expectation that mpps must put out statements on every issue, whatever it is we have seen, that should additional mechanism of party discipline really break down and perhaps has been responsible for this turbulent time under the last three prime minister final. time under the last three prime minister final . very quick one, minister final. very quick one, if i may, and that is the starmer's speech to the cbi . starmer's speech to the cbi. crucial bit of that was not pro—growth, pro—business. it was the assertion that i have my party behind me on this. the assertion that i have my party behind me on this . do you party behind me on this. do you go along with that? well the crucial question is whether parties are united. the traditional saying goes divided. parties do not win elections. and sir keir starmer has been at great pains to paint and the conservative party has been helping him a lot with this paint. the conservative party as being divided and him and his party as being united and really going in his favour is that the

socialist campaign group of employees, those sort of more unruly backbenchers within his own party have been very quiet recently . perhaps they see that recently. perhaps they see that they can send the same thing as danny finkelstein said. tom harwood, always a pleasure. thank you very much indeed for you. thanks for coming in and bnng you. thanks for coming in and bring us up to date on all of that, particularly the backbenchers saying that. enough already. you're and listening to alastair stewart and indeed with plenty still to come this plenty more still to come this afternoon as we inch up towards 1:00 we'll be looking at food production in the united kingdom, slowing down and some farmers saying that they are struggling to cope since brexit will discussing that plus with avian flu on rise is this avian flu on the rise is this a blow for turkey farmer farmers this christmas? and that means for you as the chair of save british farming will be joining me live. but first, a quick break .

welcome back. it's 21 this sunday afternoon and watching and listening to alastair stewart& friends on gb news tv and radio. we've been getting through lots of guests talking about the rebranding of political parties and what they are up to and sparked mainly by an article that lord finkelstein wrote in the times newspaper, basically saying the tories have got to rebrand or they've lost everything and they probably lost everything anyway . we asked lost everything anyway. we asked for views and you have been for your views and you have been brilliant , for your views and you have been brilliant, so for your views and you have been brilliant , so let's for your views and you have been brilliant, so let's share for your views and you have been brilliant , so let's share the brilliant, so let's share the first tranche with you . linda first tranche with you. linda says the news about mps quit in the tory party does not even inspire some local elected councillors to seek re—election . nor for those community people interested in standing for the first time, especially when the house of commons is putting politics before people does , politics before people does, says total wipe—out . i head for says total wipe—out. i head for the tories. i think we need a new political movement before

the next general election. as we can't allow labour to get in. or i think that's having your cake and eating it. as marcus says, toriola in other words, too much socialism. how much socialism do you want? i beg your pardon ? you want? i beg your pardon? john says i have a vote which is desperate for a party that has the best interests of what i consider most voters now need, and neither of the two main parties fulfil that. i live in hope that a new party is created which my vote will then. then my vote will count again . this is vote will count again. this is william, who says, prior to 1979, i supported the liberal party. i was persuaded to vote conservative by margaret thatcher. why because she had a vision to britain, into an enterprise economy and owning democracy, which all could and did prosper and had the courage and conviction to really. is it the conservative party has lost its way. jim joins in. if any

party were to scrap vat and replace it with an online tax, this would win my vote for sure. it would small businesses and bnng it would small businesses and bring online prices more in line with the highest right street by introducing the move. it would also save the rapidly declining and diminishing high street. so there we are . interesting there we are. interesting mixture. your views coming in. you can either do it by or direct onto twitter and at the same time do to our youtube channel where you can catch up with any of the great interviews that we've had so far that you may have missed and indeed previous programmes as well. now, said before, all of now, as i said before, all of that , this week's rural that, this week's rural spotlight looks at the conserves of our uk farmers since brexit . of our uk farmers since brexit. now michael gove claims that leaving the cfp is a brexit bonus for environmental opportunities which are still to be defined, but yet that is still coming down the road in meantime, what is immediately

obvious is that there are more pressing and immediate problems out there for farmers for and us who consume their produce at the heart are labour shortages, inflation and the overall rise of course, in running costs. so is there a win win solution ? is there a win win solution? plus some uk turkey farmers have also warned that there may be a shortage this christmas to the rise in avian flu. so let's discuss all of that and more with the chair of save british farming that she is liz webster, who herself is a farmer. let's start with the labour shortages first, because that's also very much in the mainstream of the political debate right now. you're a former recruitment expert . do you not have a you're a former recruitment expert. do you not have a magic formula that's a win win for everybody ? i wish i wish it did. everybody? i wish i wish it did. but yes, the magic formula is getting back in the single market. and that's really what we need. we need to free britain. we need to free up trade free our people and debt.

and that would make it that would help an awful lot. it's not going to be a magical cure overnight. you know, increasing food production could take some time . dismantling it is quite time. dismantling it is quite quick , but ramping it up takes quick, but ramping it up takes years . and so we are in a very years. and so we are in a very fragile situation with food . how fragile situation with food. how concerned are you and the farming community this close to christmas with that little list of things i read out, not only labour shortages but avian flu, the rising cost of energy and the rising cost of energy and the rest of it. how are you as a sector that christmas is not going to be full of festive cheer for you guys and gals ? i cheer for you guys and gals? i mean, you know christmas is one hot topic, but i think going in going beyond that is a huge worry . the avian flu is going beyond that is a huge worry. the avian flu is just going beyond that is a huge worry . the avian flu is just the worry. the avian flu is just the straw that broke the camel's back. it's not the i think it's a convenient escape . go for the a convenient escape. go for the government. it's not really the problem. the problem is , labour problem. the problem is, labour shortages, input prices .

shortages, input prices. removing our support subsidies and also we've also got less imports in from europe because of brexit . so i keep asking the of brexit. so i keep asking the government who's going to feed britain because at the moment are exposed. and when there's food shortages, people don't tend to just sit on their bums and moan about it. you know, we're looking at a lot of problems going forward and there is a there's a denial at the heart of government that there's going to be a problem. they assume the market will sort it out. but the other issue is that the government have been negligent about in my view, is that they they failed to how our fertiliser plant started . all fertiliser plant started. all they wanted was an a subsidy of 10 million. they put 100 million into the brexit festival and scooped as yet they didn't help our fertiliser plants stay open. so now having to rely on fertiliser from america and that's ramping up the cost even more for us. but also there's a

world shortage of it. so we couldn't be more exposed than we are now. it's like it's like deciding to go out with with no clothes on when, you know, there's a terrible storm coming andifs there's a terrible storm coming and it's going to be freezing cold. that's that's where we are at the moment to put our clothes back on. we need to get back in the single market. am i, david? customs union. make our trade free again . free up that that free again. free up that that the labour source that we need and then everybody will be able to have their food back. that would be because when it runs out, i think people will start to get quite angry. how concerned are you that this is a government that has such a fixation with the environ and climate change , that it puts climate change, that it puts that first ahead of food production ? well, again , do you production? well, again, do you really think they're putting the environment first? i live on the river thames . it's full of river thames. it's full of sewage since brexit and there is no we're not seeing any real . no we're not seeing any real. and real direction on the

environment . it's and real direction on the environment. it's used as a weapon to actually justify ramping down our farming. i lived through the coal destruction , the coal mine destruction, the coal mine destruction, the coal mine destruction, and it was patrick manford who was the architect of that. and am i very i've always said since brexit happened , said since brexit happened, farming is going to be destroyed as the coal industry was. i'm i was right. i to say it. i was was right. ito say it. i was right. and that is what's happening. and it's incredibly sad because this countryside , sad because this countryside, our country is manmade . it's our country is manmade. it's been farmed since the neolithic penod. been farmed since the neolithic period . my identity and i'm sure period. my identity and i'm sure yours and many of all of your viewers actually feel identity through the look of britain. you know, our lovely fields with hedges. know, our lovely fields with hedges . it's really know, our lovely fields with hedges. it's really is an iconic image and it's all under threat because of what this conservative government are doing. and i just hope that we can do something now. there is time, there is a window that that window is getting tighter

and tighter. and we really need to fight for our countryside , to fight for our countryside, for our food security and our food supply. you know, otherwise we'll just be having imports eventually coming in from america , brazil, you know, all america, brazil, you know, all of that food is very, very bad for your health and what will happen to our countryside. it'll just turn into a concrete jungle, probably. i have to ask you one final question with your general agricultural hat on, and you may not know the answer, but but people here in the but many people here in the newsroom want know the answer newsroom want to know the answer to question. we've to the question. we've talked about about about eggs. we've talked about turkeys. about poultry turkeys. we talked about poultry generally. how fast for the brussels sprout producers . well, brussels sprout producers. well, they all farms got the same problems. you know , labour problems. you know, labour shortages, input costs, everybody . so what do you do? everybody. so what do you do? it's a risk . everybody. so what do you do? it's a risk. farming is risky anyway. so what do you do you think? oh, goodness, what am i going to get at the end of the road and problems i going road and what problems i going to already been to get? already they've been having wasting having problems with wasting food so food and products. so everybody's been reducing and

reducing what they grow and what they produce, which is so our food security is shrinking saying, well, the world is also in a crisis. so, you know , as in a crisis. so, you know, as i said, it's a very bad situation. and it is it's an emergency and it needs urgent action . it it needs urgent action. it needs, you know a proper dedicated . body of people to dedicated. body of people to come together and make quick decisions to sort this out before it's too late . it's before it's too late. it's almost the same codes. it when we went into covid all pandemic preparedness had been destroyed and we were in a very, very bad situation. and we're almost repeating that same mistake with food . this website message food. this website message received loud and clear. i hope members of the government are listening. they normally do and maybe get little going together to try and sort it out. not only for your industry, but also equally importantly for us consumers for the time being. liz webster, chair of save british farming, thank you very

much indeed forjoining us and have a have a wonderful afternoon. thank you, liz. thank you so intriguing food for thought . i'm totally intentional thought. i'm totally intentional in the context of our main discussion about what the political parties are doing, not enough on agriculture, says liz. now a bill going through the scottish parliament would allow men to identify as women and vice versa simply by declaring themselves so. now olivia utley has been to edinburgh to find out more about that vital and contentious piece of legislation . here's our report . for contentious piece of legislation . here's our report. for a country with a population of just five and a half million , just five and a half million, scotland seems to be facing more than its fair share of existential crises. while the war over independence rages bitterly on, new battle lines are being drawn up over an issue that could turn out to be even more contentious a law that would fundamentally alter it means to be a woman north of the border. in a move sent

shockwaves through hollyrood , shockwaves through hollyrood, the scottish parliament recently voted in favour of legislation that would allow men to become women and vice versa, merely by declaring themselves so under the gender recognition reform bill. scotland, which is currently making its way through committee stage adult scots will be able to change their legal sex after three months of living in their required gender without medical intervention or even a gender dysphoria diagnosis , says gender dysphoria diagnosis, says the snp and greens. the driving force behind the bill, argue itself is , as it is known, is itself is, as it is known, is necessary to make life easier for trans people. a historically marginalised group. and that's why we to reform the process , to why we to reform the process, to make it simpler, more streamlined, more compassionate . unless medicalised but some scots are alarmed about the wider impacts that a seismic change to the law could have on women's rights . if you can't women's rights. if you can't define what women is, if a woman in scotland ceases to be somebody who's a female person,

then we lose all of our sex based protections. so my work in health . so my concern is how to health. so my concern is how to proceed . maternity services for proceed. maternity services for people who are having babies who aren't female . among the most aren't female. among the most concerned , a detransition is concerned, a detransition is those who have undergone hormone therapy and surgery in order to make their bodies conform to that of the opposite sex. and who now to go back to the way they were before. shane watson is one such person. at the age of 20, she starts to identify as a man finding her breasts and using the name sean. but at 27, after four and a half years on testosterone and a double mastectomy, she returned to living as a woman. having realised she'd been incorrectly diagnosed as trans. we know from the cas review and from the other stories of detransition and all the new research and information that's coming out that a lot of this group have comorbid conditions. a lot of them are on the autistic spectrum. a lot of them suffer from internalised misogyny or homophobia . a lot of them have homophobia. a lot of them have depression and anxiety and other forms self—hatred, like

forms of self—hatred, like eating this a very eating disorders. this is a very complex group. and we cannot complex group. and so we cannot do medical research when it comes to something like this, where the inevitable pathway as medical transition, that a reversal really changes your body under many cases can harm you across . sex hormones harmed you across. sex hormones harmed me. there needs to be some medical on looking. there needs to be therapy . there needs to be to be therapy. there needs to be treatment. the bills suffered a big blow this week when a un senior official urged scottish ministers to postpone it, but with overwhelming support from the ruling parties, it's hard to imagine this particular piece of legislation being kicked into the long grass . legislation being kicked into the long grass. ordinary legislation being kicked into the long grass . ordinary scots the long grass. ordinary scots may not know it yet , but it may not know it yet, but it seems genteel. edinburgh it's become the front line for the fiercest of culture wars . that's fiercest of culture wars. that's which will decide what it means to be a woman. olivia utley gb news edinburgh . olivia, thank news edinburgh. olivia, thank you very much indeed. so from scotland to wales, where the government there has launched a

scheme to give every household in wales a tree free of charge. the initiative called my tree our forest, aims to help tackle climate change as i talking to liz about a little earlier . from liz about a little earlier. from a farming context because trees undoubtedly are one of the most efficient helps in all of this challenge that we face also improves the nation's mental health. apparently, according to medical research. so gb news is geoff moodie went to cardiff to find out more about that . a find out more about that. a sunny autumn day in cardiff and the great tree giveaway is going strong . there's 300,000 trees up strong. there's 300,000 trees up for grabs available from 50 collection hubs up and down the country . sophie bolton has been country. sophie bolton has been handing out trees all day. she says take up has been high . i says take up has been high. i think it's a really great idea that everyone can do their bit to help the environment, to help nature. so all the trees sort of nafive nature. so all the trees sort of native trees to wales and

they're all beneficial to the environment that benefits to birds too. insects, the oak tree i just read birds too. insects, the oak tree ijust read has birds too. insects, the oak tree i just read has got over 300 different species can live, be supported by an oak tree which is amazing. but even the smaller trees that just do so much for our landscape and for our environment and that's the idea so that wales can become carbon neutral by 2050. experts have calculated the country needs plant 86 million trees. this scheme is a start and that's a small acorns. two oak trees grow . there are ten different species of tree on offer here from native trees to broadleaf trees from maples to rowans , trees from maples to rowans, right up to the mighty oak. trees from maples to rowans, right up to the mighty oak . and right up to the mighty oak. and the people here will match your garden to the perfect tree . the garden to the perfect tree. the scheme is run by wales's woodland trust volunteers are sharing their advice and helping the public choose the right tree for the right spot. trees will

be given out on a first come, first served basis from any of the 50 hubs. people can either order one online or come out in person . it's brilliant. yeah but person. it's brilliant. yeah but i mean, who would not do it ? we i mean, who would not do it? we lost three ashes in the last yeah lost three ashes in the last year. ash, dieback . so we've got year. ash, dieback. so we've got a little bit of space to put something else in and why not organise the say the my tree, our forest initiative is a simple and cost effective way of helping the environment there are no plans as yet to roll the scheme out across rest of the uk, but the welsh government hopesif uk, but the welsh government hopes if the scheme goes well, other nations will follow suit. geoff moody . gb news geoff moody geoff moody. gb news geoff moody there with a great story and i hope you agree some great images as well to illustrate it . now do as well to illustrate it. now do stay with us. you're watching alastair stewart and friends

here on gb news tv and radio. we're going to continue taking a look at how the main parties are rebranding . and very shortly, rebranding. and very shortly, we'll be looking specifically at the labour party and what it is doing to make its offer either more compelling or more attractive. call it what you will. i've got two top guests to discuss with me. plus, the guide dogs charity launches the uk's first ever inclusive christmas and grotto . you really want to and grotto. you really want to miss that . but first, we're miss that. but first, we're going to take a quick break break .

1:01. hello and welcome if you've just joined us. hello. and thank you so much. if you've been with us since 12:00, i am alastair stewart it. we're into the second and final hour of our programme, company programme, keeping you company here with plenty here on tv and radio with plenty more. to come, including

more. still to come, including more. still to come, including more on our top discussion, just two conservatives and who two of the conservatives and who are the labour party and what would your vote as they would clinch your vote as they reign supreme after next general election? great already more yet to come. we will also have the very latest royal news and we'll be hearing about the uk's first ever inclusive christmas grotto . when i was going to break into that, because the metropolitan police are holding a press conference about the two stabbings over the last 12 hours. so let's join that press conference now. cpq commander for south east bcu in london . for south east bcu in london. this is an extremely sad day for all of us who live or work in greenwich . police are greenwich. police are investigated in the tragic murders of two teenage boys . and murders of two teenage boys. and my thoughts and deepest sympathies are with their families and friends and indeed with local people in the abbey wood thames. meet who i know are both shocked and appalled by what has happened as the deputy

borough commander of the south east command unit, i join the community in being deeply saddened and outraged by these senseless murders . on saturday senseless murders. on saturday evening . that's around 5:10. evening. that's around 5:10. police were called to reports of two people injured in two locations. so road abbey wood and titmus avenue at thames meet the location are approx approximately one mile apart emergency services attended immediately and each location they found a 16 year old boy suffering step injuries . suffering step injuries. tragically both boys died of their injuries. i can confirm their injuries. i can confirm the two young boys are charlie bartolo and keoni solanki . the bartolo and keoni solanki. the families are aware and we ask that their privacy is respected at this unimaginably difficult

time . specialist officers will time. specialist officers will ensure that they are given all the support we can possibly provide . homicide colleagues are provide. homicide colleagues are investigating and are treating the two murders as linked . i the two murders as linked. i assure everybody affected by these murders that skilled detectives will work tirelessly to discover what happened and provide answers to the young victims and families . tackling. victims and families. tackling. tackling violence is a priority for the met . days like today for the met. days like today show . that's why our work is so show. that's why our work is so important and why i must ask all again. for london communities to work with us and our partners so that we are doing all we can together to prevent such tragedies . officers are tragedies. officers are especially keen to hear from anyone who may have seen a dark coloured suv or four by four type vehicle with distinctive silver roof paths in the areas around silk road or titmus avenue in the days before and

pnor avenue in the days before and prior to murders. avenue in the days before and prior to murders . we have prior to murders. we have already from a number of witnesses and i'm grateful for them. it i'm grateful to them for getting in touch and providing information to the police . i am appealing for any police. i am appealing for any witnesses who may have seen the either incident . witnesses who may have seen the either incident. i'm also interested in speaking with those who knew charlie and kiani . i might be able to offer some information or insights into the killings and we urge you to contact police on 1 to 1, giving the reference 4943 of the 26 of november information can also provide be provided to crime stoppers anonymously online, or by calling . 800 555111. they do by calling. 800 555111. they do not ask your name or trace your ip address . enquiries are ip address. enquiries are ongoing and i will therefore

offer no further comment at this time . okay well that was time. okay well that was richard mcdonagh of the metropolitan police at that press conference following two stabbings where he gave details, particularly of a dark coloured suv , that the dark coloured suv, that the police are anxious to track down. and we'll be putting all of those details up on our website so that you can follow it as well. but that was the latest confirming as well that these two separate incidents , as these two separate incidents, as things stand at the moment, just happened to occur within the same timescale, all being , of same timescale, all being, of course, treated as murder . and course, treated as murder. and that the investigation into what caused, as he said and i quote, richard mcdonagh, the senseless deaths of charlie and johnny. what caused that to happen? it is another i fear , tragic. is another i fear, tragic. couple of examples of london's continuing knife crime problems

and that was that what richard macdonagh had to say . now we're macdonagh had to say. now we're getting our reporters engaged in that. and if we can bring you more, we will do just as soon as we can. but that is the latest. now, two killings, both being treated now as a murder . now, two killings, both being treated now as a murder. now let's return to our top discussion of this afternoon. the rebranding of our politics. both parties are now up against it. and try to retain or gain votes for the next general election . and it is fast election. and it is fast approaching, of course. now, i want to know what you think . has want to know what you think. has the labour party reformed sufficiently for it to tempt you back? perhaps that's what the polls are suggesting. could it be a new political home or a rediscovered political home that used to occupy half the tories their way? and are they prepared , as lord danny finkelstein suggested , for an overwhelming suggested, for an overwhelming inevitable defeat? do get in touch and send us your thoughts

. gbviews@gbnews.uk and now joining me in the studio , joining me in the studio, conservative commentator and author . and also i think is author. and also i think is scarlet coming in in a moment or is scarlet mcguire is here as well in the newsroom who is a former labour adviser? and you are quite right so that we can have a balanced conversation before scarlet comes in. what did you personally make of danny finkelstein's article in the times? well i mean, i think on one level it was absolutely , you one level it was absolutely, you know, a statement of reality. the conservatives are looking very diminished in terms of their ambition in terms of their competence and terms of how people perceive , the government people perceive, the government , lord finkelstein, was calling for , as you've said throughout for, as you've said throughout the programme , some as a the programme, some as a rethink, some sort of rebranding , although in terms of what he was advocating, i thought it was limited really. i mean a number of quite technical points . he of quite technical points. he was point he was raising such as

appointing ethics commissioners and changing the way that the party elects its leaders. i mean those things may or may not be necessary and they are the sort of things that parties tend to do in opposition because they tend to go into opposition, they tend to go into opposition, they tend to go into opposition, they tend to go into kind of a process of kind of myopic internal. but the party is not opposition. the party is in power. and i think that i felt the article missed the point that what conservatives don't to rebrand per say they just need to assert their inner conservatism which is just not something that we've heard very much of or about. i mean, briefly during the liz truss interregnum, there was there was a suggestion that there was actually going to be some clear blue water between the two parties. interesting i think the way that labour have now moved into a lot of the conservative territory , they're trying to territory, they're trying to neutralise their wing flank, if you like . and i mean, you like. and i mean, essentially what we've got is just two parties that are not

distinct but in a curious distinct, but in a curious sense. and it struck me at time that leadership election you had fresh, bright young thinkers like kemi badenoch and mordaunt and tom tugendhat coming up with new ideas , so on. but it came new ideas, so on. but it came down to a battle between liz truss and the go for growth budget, which we've talked about so many times. and rishi sunak as being the more traditional treasury orthodoxy approach to it and eventually at the second time of asking that's the direction that the party has gone in. is there a danger, as i put to peter, that the parliamentary party and the leadership of party is out of step with what the members want 7 step with what the members want ? self—evidently yes, i would say there is. i mean, i think that's why we ended up with with the various changes and chopping and changing that we've seen over the last few weeks . i mean, over the last few weeks. i mean, i think that there might have been quite a different outcome to the leadership election had .

to the leadership election had. the roles been reversed and had the members of the party been able to vote for some of those other candidates that , didn't other candidates that, didn't make it through to the final. but i did come back to this idea again, that these are quite technical things. yes. and i think essentially at the next election, are going election, people are not going to or not to be voting whether or not rishi sunak's , an ethics rishi sunak's, an ethics commissioner, frankly , commissioner, quite frankly, going to be voting with their gut over like . you know, gut over issues like. you know, the horrific story that we've just seen at the top of the houn just seen at the top of the hour. people will be voting about on issues to do with crime on the public, on education. and though i know we're referring to lord finkelstein's article , lord finkelstein's article, there's also a very interesting poll in today's mail on sunday. lord ashcroft, in which we see labour ahead of the on a number of these key issues. interestingly, though not particularly with regards to the two leaders, you seem to be fairly evenly considered, fairly evenly by the general public . evenly by the general public. but on the matter on the issues

that really count the big public service issues in the way the economy is run, the conservatives are trailing behind considerably . does that behind considerably. does that mean as as i thought it it did. and that's why i wrote it in my introduction at midday. sir keir starmer's assertive contribution to the cbi conference was really quite significant because it said two things. one is that the labour party , his leadership is labour party, his leadership is , not only pro—business which it's been for quite some time, but is actually pro growth as only way in which you can generate the surplus revenues, the profits to use that word to pay the profits to use that word to pay for all of the public services. but he also claimed that his party was behind him in making that assertion. a how significant that speech and b do you he's judged it right ? well, you he's judged it right? well, i think it does remind me a lot of the run up to the to the 97 election where we had that whole sort of so—called prawn cocktail of fancy with with new labour to

reassure both public and the public, both that it was competent in terms of running the economy, that it broadly speaking, kind of had a sort of central east agenda, but also that it was a unified party. so to that extent, yes, i mean, that that was significant. there's also the question of whether and i don't know, be interesting to hear from scarlett on what she feels about whether this is part of a tactic . try and push the tories further to what labour would to be the right. i mean if that is a kind of correlation of this, i actually think you know, the conservatives shouldn't be afraid of moving in that direction. it would help to distinguish and it could distinguish them and it could cut off attack potentially cut off the attack potentially coming from their right wing flank . but there are a lot of flank. but there are a lot of people and you will have heard it have those conversations it and have those conversations as , who that if the as well, who say that if the tories to stand a chance, tories are to stand a chance, the next election from the next general election from within that's exactly within own ranks, that's exactly what otherwise, what they've to do. otherwise, reform exactly reform uk or hoover up exactly what that's exactly saying. what that's exactly i'm saying. yeah exactly what i'm

yeah that's exactly what i'm saying. and with your experience , challenge ? well, i mean , a real challenge? well, i mean , i don't know with my experience particularly, but i think any of us looking at you through brexit, you lived through brexit, you lived through ukip coming along and how groups may not form a government can have a direct and immediate and potent impact on parties who do hope to form a right. and. whereas you know, nigel farage was prepared do a deal with the conservatives which which kept brexit within the conservative party family, as it were. you know, it's not obvious what that deal would be this time. so i think the just the threat from the right , the the threat from the right, the conservative party to the conservative vote, particularly in the northern seats, is quite palpable. joanne, always a pleasure to see you. thank you very much indeed for coming in and keep in touch. thank you very indeed. that's jo—anne very much indeed. that's jo—anne nadler views on that. and nadler with views on that. and to continue conversation to continue our conversation i i'm delighted to be joined now by rebecca rebecca is by rebecca loury rebecca is a partner at paige field pr communications and relations consultancy with that purely

professional on do you understand what these two giants of our politics are actually up to at the moment. of our politics are actually up to at the moment . well first to at the moment. well first thanks for having me on afternoon after and i think both parties are in a really interesting at the moment and the labour party has obviously made huge strides. the leadership it was really trying to turn itself around and appeal to turn itself around and appeal to who would really put one side and i think the efforts at party conference they make another business conference early december which shows that they're making that commitment to engaging with business. and actually i think in contrast the conservative parties if i can use the word disastrous approach to their business conference and really should actually that they're lose some that trust and actually the labour party's really starting to be that party to businesses want to engage with my clients particularly want to go out and actually speak to them and understand

going into the next party manifesto but that seems to on one of the most crucial points and i was saying to my earlier guests that there's a real problem for the conservatives and that is that the leaders ship and the parliamentary party seem to be out of step with the membership in. the country, whether it's on tax or housing migration. the challenge for laboun migration. the challenge for labour, it seems to , is whether labour, it seems to, is whether that bold assertion that sir keir made at the cbi calling friends that my party are force where behind me also bears examination. you're a former labour councillor. yeah, i am and i'm 100% labour councillor. yeah, i am and i'm100% behind keir starmer. i think you will see in every political party that there are people who don't agree with the leadership can see that in every iteration that we've had of the conservative party over the decade. there are the past decade. there are always within always going to be people within the labour who aren't the labour party who aren't completely leader, completely behind the leader, 100. come on so from 100. but we've come on so from the time when jeremy corbyn was leader and i really do believe that the vast majority of the party is really united behind

him. and actually we need to be in position if labour is going to win the next election . john to win the next election. john was saying , to win the next election. john was saying, and one or two of my other guests as well, the principle problem for the conservative party is that on those issues that the public they vote and members feel so strongly about, like they vote and members feel so strongly about , like the strongly about, like the economy, like housing and planning, like migration at the moment, although they have left of an 80 seat majority, they seem virtually powerless to act on any of those issues in a way that the members and electorate want them to . yeah, i would want them to. yeah, i would completely agree with that. i think the instability within government have really affected the ability to any new prime minister to really be able to put forward their agenda and do something about it. we've seen in the last few weeks the unpicking of that mini budget and you just outside of and you said just outside of that a of time that you've spent a of time looking at that issue. but actually, where do we go from? how conservative party how does the conservative party rebuild just rebuild that trust, not just

with who are now with its membership, who are now being their trust being asked to put their trust in to take a different set in them, to take a different set of policies, but also get the electorate behind them, electorate back behind them, who've the conditions that who've seen the conditions that they're living in and potentially get significantly worse under under truss's leader , if we're looking at rishi sunak now if people are joining our conversation on television rather than radio, there is and we saw jeremy hunt a moment ago andifs we saw jeremy hunt a moment ago and it's bearing in mind you are and it's bearing in mind you are a former labour councillor but if the conservative party were to give you and page field a bell a buzz and said okay give me give me three action points, what are the three key things? because i'm i'm not buying the idea of rebranding. you're either a conservative or you're not but it may not a conservative, but it may just be that policy initiatives or warming it up might shift the direction . travel at the moment direction. travel at the moment . yeah, of course. so i think actually one of the most important things is really inspiring. young people, you know, young people in recent years have had through

years have had to live through covid now we're potentially covid and now we're potentially heading into a recession actually. the actually. what's the conservative doing them? conservative party doing them? i the second one is around really maintaining within the party and you've got a lot of different views that exist within that conservative party and actually , do you keep hold of that blue wall, red wall, you know, they seats that are really, really important for them to ensure that they win the next election. and then i think the third one is actually about is just actually about rebuilding actually rebuilding trust and actually the only way that those voters who the last few weeks have always to conservatives always said to conservatives told me they're now thinking of voting to go back voting labour going to go back to conservatives if to the conservatives if is if the conservative party can really do trust us on really say please do trust us on all really important all those really important issues economy and the issues around economy and the nhs . final rebecca, how nhs. final point, rebecca, how damaging it for the brand when bright young things like dehenna davison and also old grey beards in the party for longer than i care to say not for me. i'm not even bothering to stand again next time i. think it's very damaging, especially in those seats the conservatives won in

2019 and really need to win again to be able to make sure that they stay in power after the next election . brilliant. the next election. brilliant. a very much what drama saying just a moment ago . rebecca, great to a moment ago. rebecca, great to see you. thank you very much. on my best wishes to of paige my best wishes to all of paige field keep in touch with field and do keep in touch with us. o'leary, their us. rebecca o'leary, their partner page field pr. as partner at page field pr. and as we said times because we we said several times because we do believe in balance for labour councillor. joining me in councillor. now joining me in the studio i'm delighted to say is another old friend of mine labour adviser and writer scarlett mcguire and both of us thought was going to happen at the beginning of the programme. jo—anne nadler with us. jo—anne nadler is still with us. i her to come back in for i asked her to come back in for this conversation. here's the issue first of all, and issue for you, first of all, and do feel free to join in because we, we, all us lived through we, we, all of us lived through it when . kinnock charles clarke it when. kinnock charles clarke and john reed basically rebranded the labour party to make it electable after foot. that was core fundamental beliefs. it was about the relationship with industry , it

relationship with industry, it was about the power of the trade unions. it was about saying clause socialism. no, that's not for us. the tories are nowhere near even having that debate , near even having that debate, are they or do you recognise the seeds of that, scarlett? no, no . mean the thing about the tories is at the end and they've run out of energy. i mean that is the real problem and, and what they've learned is that they can rebel so , so what they can rebel so, so what rebecca said about discipline , rebecca said about discipline, incredibly important. i mean , if incredibly important. i mean, if you look at i mean, labour we all know is a broad church among the mps in particular really among the membership and. yet the behaviour of is we're going for it and people have had to take deep breaths about some of the things that keir has said that possibly he's put things slightly badly by you know he's almost said british jobs for british workers whereas actually you know really what he's saying

if you look underneath it he's saying we've got to scale the british workforce, which is absolutely right. i mean, and frankly i remember having this argument in in 97 about how was so much more skilled than us . so much more skilled than us. and that's why blair wanted to push to put 50% of people into universities . so actually, universities. so actually, i mean , i do think that that that mean, i do think that that that one of the problems is discipline. and the other problem is , is, is that what you problem is, is, is that what you talked about growth. i mean, actually if you look at labour's talking about growth and the tories haven't grown and if you look at what labour the way they want to grow , it's the green want to grow, it's the green economy. so actually they're doing two good things. one is they're saying we need to grow because we want decent public service means that for a moment , if i may do, feel free. come in and wave your hand at me. if i'm not giving up properly. but i'm not giving up properly. but i want to stick with the notion of party discipline because peter bottomley way back at beginning of the programme,

mentioned it and so too did sean werth and a problem with , this werth and a problem with, this assertion from sir keir that we are pro—business and we recognise only growth can pay for public services and i mean in effect hurrah capitalism when it's working well and jolly it's working well and is jolly good when the rebelled against that kind of mantra under either neil kinnock or tony blair, both called him out in powerful speeches and rather enjoyed it. will care to do that. is he up to doing that? i don't think. i think he's he's certainly up to doing it. mean there's no question that i mean if you look at how they're choosing a labour candidate anybody who is felt to be a rebel doesn't even get onto the longlist right. so in technical terms it's happening but actually what see with the labour party was a mazing at liverpool at the labour party conference . they just want to conference. they just want to win and i remember again saying in 96, 97 when blair was looking like a winner, even though a lot

of labour people were sort of a bit old far more awed about him than people outside. i mean, brace attlee labour will lie down and say, tickle my tummy if you can win. i mean, he's jettisoned. i mean, it's more than just sort of i think a will a wish to win there seems to be a wish to win there seems to be a will to win from starmer. i mean, he's changed his mind know 180 degrees on pretty fundamental issues like freedom of movement for instance this week. i mean i think that was that goes that's a testament to how much he does want to win and i think that will pose some problems for some of his party colleagues surely as a fairly fundamental issues like that and the relations between the uk and the relations between the uk and the eu. well, i mean, i think , i the eu. well, i mean, i think, i mean i think, i think what keir wants is a good relationship between the eu which, which actually is what we, i mean we have to have a good with the eu. no one is suggesting otherwise of it. well i mean i think you saw the last not going to renegotiate terms of to the single market or anything like

that. he has to say. right. i mean, does now but it's not what he said a couple of years ago is. well, a couple of years ago, no, it was more than a couple of years ago. before before general election in 2019. keir was going for a second referendum on me. i'm almost this with a slight sort of sense of admiration . the sort of sense of admiration. the things that it does show, how much they want . now he really much they want. now he really a he won't say a b, he thinks he can get it. whereas i think when he first got elected he saw himself as the kinnock person , himself as the kinnock person, as doing all the hard work and you know, still losing next election. i think he now thinks can win the next election and that impression, yeah, i really will. and so does the party and that and the fun for both of you and you say whether you think it's a fall, i know you obviously the question as to whether it can be discipline. the thing he does have to the one thing he does have to tell left do is to stop tell the left to do is to stop talking about re nationalising water railways. doesn't water and the railways. doesn't he the manager he because otherwise the manager

of the cbi and we're of we'll have the cbi and we're hand—in—glove together and we're all jolly chums kind of all jolly good chums kind of falls they going to falls apart. they going to renationalise the railways, but they're just going to do it for free. mean, going to free. i mean, they're going to do as i as the leases come up do it as i as the leases come up , they're going to take them. but there's no secret about that . i mean, people are talking about it in the stock renew licence. they're not going to renew licences, just shut your foxes because of who opposes nationalisation? i was going to say that in the short term though, before get to though, even before we get to that of sort of structural that point of sort of structural change, don't think that change, i don't think that labour got anything labour have got anything distinct the distinct to say on the industrial problem that's happening and. happening at the moment and. that is almost more that to me is almost more intriguing. don't intriguing. you know, they don't seem clear, distinct seem to have a clear, distinct line this. they're just line on this. they're just effectively saying, oh, the government to be more government needs to be more involved these involved with with ending these strikes. to pull any strikes. they need to pull any of levers they have, but of the levers they have, but they're not saying anything. but she's seams. she's bursting at the seams. they they want to be the they look they want to be the next government . i mean, we know next government. i mean, we know that when labour is in government , all issues that both

government, all issues that both parties are sounding very much the same on an absolute know what say as a result of what they say as a result of somebody famously once said between the two of them. absolutely not you. thank you very indeed, andrew. on very much indeed, andrew. on twice. thank you very much indeed. maybe are not indeed. so maybe they are not rebranding so much as reminding folk of what they really do believe in, but as both of them said, they've got to remember, if you have discipline, it if you don't have discipline, it can still all go up in smoke. my thanks to scarlet mcguire and to john not like you're watching and to alastair and listening to alastair stewart& lots more stewart& friends with lots more coming on today's program. stewart& friends with lots more comiwe've on today's program. stewart& friends with lots more comiwe've got oday's program. stewart& friends with lots more comiwe've got to ay's program. stewart& friends with lots more comiwe've got to just program. stewart& friends with lots more comiwe've got to just aboutm. 1:27. we've got to just about half an hour still to go. we'll be staying with our look at the prospect for the main prospect for the two main parties. according to the independent, the prime minister parties. according to the in beingjent, the prime minister parties. according to the in being warned; prime minister parties. according to the in being warned of rime minister parties. according to the in being warned of ane minister parties. according to the in being warned of a toryiinister is being warned of a tory rebellion as . the party's poll rebellion as. the party's poll as the papers poll. i beg your pardon ? labour now an 18 point pardon? labour now an 18 point lead when we discussing that with a pollster after this now weather you looking ahead to

this afternoon and the uk is looking cloudy and damp in the southeast , looking cloudy and damp in the southeast, brighter and blustery in the northwest. let's take a look at the details. scotland will retain a fresh breeze this afternoon with scattered showers pushing into the northwest . pushing into the northwest. these could be heavy at times by hail and the odd rumble of thunder. northern ireland will see blustery showers and bright spells as well. temperatures will be slightly down compared to saturday with highs of around ten celsius. northern england will have a dry second half of the weekend. the winds will be lighter compared to yesterday. so feeling less brisk outside . so feeling less brisk outside. whilst much of wales will also be dry, showers will begin feeding into the west along with some sunny spells and. sunshine in the east will be rather behind the cloud. there could be some weak sunshine across central england as well, with the thickest cloud continuing to lift and even where grey skies prevail, it will remain predominantly dry throughout this afternoon. southeast england will see the wettest

afternoon with outbreaks of rain and drizzle possibly heavy at times. it will be mildest here, though, climbing towards 13 celsius. this rain will likely affect areas from hampshire eastwards with the potential for some disruption to travel. southwest england will get away with a dry afternoon , if still with a dry afternoon, if still rather cloudy. overall the rain in the southeast will gradually clear during the evening whilst. blustery showers continue pushing into the west and that's how the weather is shaping up for the rest of the day .

good afternoon. as 131. i'm tatiana in the gb newsroom. the met police have said the murders of two teenagers in south east london are linked . well, our london are linked. well, our national reporter theo cumber was at a police press conference

earlier where the two boys were named. theo what do we know so far ? yes. so in the last half an far? yes. so in the last half an hour or so, we heard from the deputy command in the met's south command here , richard south command here, richard mcdonough and he says it's an extremely sad for those who live here in this community. extremely sad for those who live here in this community . after here in this community. after they received calls yesterday afternoon, on saturday, a around five, a crook, about 5:10 and from two different location means we're here in thames and titmus where they found kioni , titmus where they found kioni, so lanky and in the other location . charlie bartolo in avi location. charlie bartolo in avi were just less than a mile from. and he also said detective homicide detectives are treating the stabbings as linked and they're also appealing to anyone who saw a four by four, a black one which was going around in this area in the last few days, up to the stabbings which happened yesterday on saturday evening at around 5:10. police

were called to reports two people injured in two locations. the locations approximately one mile apart , emergency services mile apart, emergency services attended immediately. mile apart, emergency services attended immediately . and at attended immediately. and at each location, they a 16 year old boy suffering step injuries . tragically both boys died of their injuries. . tragically both boys died of their injuries . the government their injuries. the government says the online bill will be updated next month to criminalise the encouragement of self—harm. it said the have been influenced by molly russell, the 14 year old who ended her life in 2017 after viewing content unked in 2017 after viewing content linked suicide and self—harm. the new bill would target online material that manipulates the vulnerable . it illegal to do so vulnerable. it illegal to do so of diphtheria among asylum seekers in a kent migrant centre are thought to have risen. it's after a man at the ftx migrant processing centre is thought to have died from the disease. the

government is expected to announce tomorrow the number of infections has climbed to around 50. greater manchester police say a man whose body was found covered in potentially hazardous substances was shot and sprayed with acid. 38 year old liam smith's body was found in the street in wigan on. the area was cordoned off and residents urged to contact all authorities if they felt unwell at the. a murder investigation is ongoing and the queen consort is to break with the times old tradition of having ladies in waiting , opting for queen's waiting, opting for queen's companions instead. buckingham palace has announced the names of the six women who support camilla in her official duties. in addition to her private and deputy, private secretaries, it's believed the companions work will be similar, but not extensive. as the late queen ladies in waiting . tv online and ladies in waiting. tv online and dab+ radio. this is tv news. now it's back to alastair stewart

and friends . and friends. tatiana, thank you very much indeed. tatiana, thank you very much indeed . junior, tatiana, thank you very much indeed .junior, it tatiana, thank you very much indeed . junior, it seems that it indeed. junior, it seems that it wasn't that long ago that we were at the ballot box, but there is to be a general election to decide who governs the country no longer. no later , january in 2025. and that time is likely to fly by. i've been talking to a range of guests so far on just how the parties can govern your support and just how it's looking in the polls for both of them . and it follows both of them. and it follows a major intervention from sir keir starmer at the cbi conference where he said he was pro—business, pro—growth and also lord finklestein and former aide to william hague, writing in the times that the tories need to rebrand if they're to stand a chance because the game pretty well up for him. i'm

delighted to be joined now by a very good friend, mine professor david, who is a political analyst . and i've spent more analyst. and i've spent more time mulling things over with him than i perhaps care to recall. first of all, david, how would you summarise the current state of play as measured by the polls in terms of parties and issues of concern . well, in issues of concern. well, in terms of party support, if i look at october , the there were look at october, the there were 41 polls and on average labour was three points ahead . the was three points ahead. the conservatives tax edged down in november to about 20 points. so clearly an improvement from the catastrophe that liz truss led the party but still really formidable as a challenge given that the election as you rightly say , is only a couple of years say, is only a couple of years away in terms of issues. well,

obviously, the economy , obviously, the economy, inflation and a number of obvious issues in the sense of there and people . so those are there and people. so those are not too surprising. what is interesting is the way in which labour has increased its competitiveness on a number of those key issues because historically the conservatives have always led always, always led on issues of competence to running the economy. controlling inflation. all the big ticket like that . but this round a sign like that. but this round a sign the conservative decline and chaos in the way labour is nudging up to the conservatives who lost their edge on the issue of economic competence. that must be a serious concern for the future . being an experienced the future. being an experienced observer of these matters, when you sir keir starmer's speech at the cbi. my little eyes lit up and i. blimey, this is reminding me of kinnock reading the riot act to militant to bournemouth

and even at blackpool talking clause four was in that same category for you . david i'm category for you. david i'm sorry alastair, i was cut off and i missed the question. i do apologise . i'll repeat it very apologise. i'll repeat it very briefly. did starmer contribution on growth and business at the cbi sit there alongside in your mind with reading the riot act to militant at bournemouth and blair clause four in blackpool. yes, it lacked some of the melodrama , lacked some of the melodrama, but in terms of its substance , but in terms of its substance, think you're absolutely right that it's on a par with what you see is now strengthened. he spent much of his leadership being and sniped by the set sacked and others in the party. now because of these commanding leaks i think he's proving himself to be his own person and

he was able to make that statement which to three years ago would have seemed to me for ago would have seemed to me for a labour leader to have said , do a labour leader to have said, do agree with danny finkel's . on agree with danny finkel's. on his other point . and that is if his other point. and that is if the polls remain as they are which you've just described , which you've just described, then actually the leadership needs to go into a darkened room with a blank sheet of paper and start again, because i'm not buying that you don't rebrand core beliefs , you stand by them core beliefs, you stand by them and, you demand discipline around them . that's very around them. that's very interesting point. lord ashcroft has just published one of his mega polls , 5000 people. and in mega polls, 5000 people. and in report it, he says the conservative brand is as bad a state as i've seen in all my years of polling and that he felt that the party in a state similar to the pre 1997 exhausted tainted until disciplined. now that's one personal view a serious pollster

and a serious commentator i think my sense of the story is this conservative morale seems to have collapsed . retirement to have collapsed. retirement announcements are problems accumulating . the public sense accumulating. the public sense is they're not ecstatic about either labour or its leader , but either labour or its leader, but they know the country needs a leader at such a time and they don't seem to are offering it . don't seem to are offering it. so it may not be impossible. it may well not be the last chance for the conservative party, but it's getting close. sunak i think as harold that was taking place , as i say, 30 points place, as i say, 30 points behind in october , 20 points behind in october, 20 points behind in october, 20 points behind in october, 20 points behind in november. so something has happened . he's done has happened. he's done something and it may be that the conservatives can turn things around, but the clock is ticking . and it seems to me that that it needs to be a sense of leadership coming from the conservatives , and then the conservatives, and then the country might give them a second chance in the absence of that, i

think you really in a helicopter, you in the high court to hell . david, great to court to hell. david, great to talk to you. thank you very much indeed. officer david cowling there , sexologist, pas there, sexologist, pas extraordinaire and gb news analyst . well, always a pleasure analyst. well, always a pleasure to talk to him and intriguing that it to talk to him and intriguing thatitis to talk to him and intriguing that it is about discipline. it is about holding the ship together and not panicking . but together and not panicking. but together and not panicking. but to quote him , a professional to quote him, a professional apologist , to quote him, a professional apologist, it to quote him, a professional apologist , it looks pretty apologist, it looks pretty difficult and if it does to him and lord ashcroft as well well. there we are as a consensus. you perhaps wouldn't want to argue with. you're watching and listening to alastair stewart and friends with more come. and friends with more to come. still our remaining 20 still in our remaining 20 minutes or so, including is this the of traditional ladies in the end of traditional ladies in waiting ? the queen consort has waiting? the queen consort has opted for companions. waiting? the queen consort has opted for companions . and i'm opted for companions. and i'm delighted to say that royal jenny bonham joins me next to tell us more about all of . but tell us more about all of. but first, a quick break.

hello back at 17 minutes to one. you're watching and listening to alastair stewart& friends here on gb news tv radio. goodness me , been getting in touch on our big topic of the party politics and just to a labour and the conservatives trying to suggest to you they are now bill says the only reset that will save tories is to be conservative. the tories in the country are in a mess because they've been conservative only in name for decades. conservative only in name for decades . as for the cbi, labour decades. as for the cbi, labour and the tories should focus on small business needs, not big business. that's not an uncommon threat. thank you for raising it, daniel the conversation and says many people in britain don't bother to vote perhaps people will bother now. well i hope so. i'm all for that. get out there and vote. you know, it makes sense. rogerjoins the makes sense. roger joins the conversation . conservative no conversation. conservative no laboun conversation. conservative no labour, no reform uk. yes is not a party political broadcast, but

thatis a party political broadcast, but that is not an uncommon tweet, particularly from people who used to be tories and are now scratching their heads and thinking again, to keep your views coming in and do subscribe to our youtube, we are at gb news and you can all of the great interviews i've had great interviews that i've had so on this so far today on this extraordinary topic. now let's leave that for a moment. buckingham palace have announced today that the queen consort will have six queen's companions , not the traditional ladies in waiting . the six women selected waiting. the six women selected by camilla will carry out her key official and state duties and are in addition to her private secretary and deputy. private secretary. but in selecting what is it do in terms of breaking with a tradition and what does that mean ? the what does that mean? the monarchy? what i'm delighted to be joined by a woman who really does know and that is royal correspond jenny bond. and there she is from names in the frame , she is from names in the frame, which is genuinely interesting .

which is genuinely interesting. is there a significance in title and role here? jenny well, i think there is. i think it is largely cosmetic, but we're all banging on about how charles is going to modernise the monarchy , going to look and feel different it. this is a small way modern twist on a job which won't be fundamentally very different to the ladies in waiting in the past. but it's such an archaic term as it ladies is in waiting. these are six of camilla's close companions friends who are loyal and discreet and who she enjoys time with. and, you know on these royal duties, it can be could be quite lonely if you're doing a solo engagement, travelling on your own, doing everything, the engagement by yourself , then travelling home yourself, then travelling home so she can have a bit of a laugh, a bit of a giggle with her friends and they'll be there by her side and she'll comfortable with them. so i think a good modern twist, think it's a good modern twist, but not fundamentally different now. well, i'm glad you do. you think there'll be any any other similar changes because

buckingham is full as we both know, with all sorts of chaps in cunous know, with all sorts of chaps in curious costumes and uniforms. i mean, there is modernisation and there's also the defence and retain notion of tradition . yes. retain notion of tradition. yes. and i think that's uppermost in their mind as well. it's just a tweak like this does does help us understand that they want to have a modern image you like and these ladies are old and trusted friends. sarah chorlton is one of the now she's actually the queen's cousin , charles's second queen's cousin, charles's second cousin. and is very experienced because she was a lady in waiting to catherine , duchess of waiting to catherine, duchess of kent, and then an interesting one is fiona marchioness of marsha's lansdown and she's a bow would house she and her husband live and have restored it and boathouse was always told me that it was one of the safe houses for charles camilla in the diana years when they had to

meet secretly . so clearly a very meet secretly. so clearly a very loyal and discreet friend there and quite an one is jane von weston . the house she and her weston. the house she and her husband have helped dumfries house, which is a big project for prince charles in scotland, but also their daughter violet is said to be the person who introduced meghan to harry. so an interesting there as well . an interesting there as well. cheeky one there. thank jenny. and finally and it's linguistically lateral rather than directly connected. talking of companions , we also saw the of companions, we also saw the latest tranche of companions of honour unveiled and it struck me as being interesting and may be to the folks who are kind enough to the folks who are kind enough to be listening to us and watching our conversation. jenny these were people who were selected , the late queen and by selected, the late queen and by the king yes well, it's a great honour , any of them. and honour, any of them. and i suppose it's going to be even special that they will be obviously, by definition, the last to be so honoured by our

late monarch . and i think it's late monarch. and i think it's a lovely touch that charles has decided he will honour her her commitment to these these people . and what an honour for them. how wonderful. absolutely jenny, great to see you. thank for breaking into your sunday afternoon to talk to us about companions of honour and the queen consort consort's . new queen consort consort's. new companions, always good to talk to you . keep in touch. thank you to you. keep in touch. thank you very much indeed. jenny bond there her views the there with her views on the gentle, slow , respectful gentle, slow, respectful modernism of the royal family . modernism of the royal family. now it is famously the most wonderful time of the year, christmas tradition , a time when christmas tradition, a time when families and come together to celebrate, but sometimes it can be difficult for those with sight loss to in with the festivities . well this year festivities. well this year sight loss charity guide dogs have the launch of the first everin have the launch of the first ever in inclusive christmas . so ever in inclusive christmas. so for children with a visual

impairment opening its doors next weekend guide dogs christmas grotto has been designed in canterbury with families and children with sight loss . the inclusive event aims loss. the inclusive event aims to create truly magical and immersive festive experience . immersive festive experience. all families to enjoy joy. i cannot tell you how thrilled am to be joined live in the studio by alex, who is the head of access ability for guide dogs uk . and if the camera can pick him up, i hope very much they can. but down there on floor calm as button is river, maritime and transport union your guide dog. welcome to both of you . by welcome to both of you. by definition, you never had this j'oy definition, you never had this joy or thrill when you were a child no. so it's just a context. i have always been vision impaired, but i had some sight growing up, so it's been j'oy sight growing up, so it's been joy, i sight growing up, so it's been joy , i suppose the sight element joy, i suppose the sight element of christmas to a degree, but go into things like christmas got i was a bit maybe a bit was always a bit maybe a bit nervous mainly you know often in

dark places or the toys or gifts i receive from santa weren't necessarily accessible. i couldn't use them because of my sight. so it was a good experience, but not in the same way as it would be for a sighted child who's actually put it together. and how has it been made sensitive to the needs of the young people as well as guide dogs? if guide dogs are coming to in guide dogs core coming to in so guide dogs core organisation as opposed together with support from external organisations who will have done this was the set design for want of a better term . and we've made of a better term. and we've made sure as you said earlier just sure as you said earlierjust now that we have taken opinions of people with sight loss so that children and young people , that children and young people, people like myself, even though i'm not necessarily going along to enjoy raising centre. i do have children as well who are sighted. so i have a different to them and want to make sure i enjoy it. so we're taking everyone's opinions well as everyone's opinions as well as what already know around what we already know around sight obviously as lost sight loss obviously as a lost organisation and trying to build that into the design and i think

we've really we've got to i'm really thrilled. i think it's going to be a great weekend for be a really great weekend for the that are coming the young people that are coming in visit us. absolutely in to visit us. absolutely fantastic i said at the fantastic as i said at the beginning, of beginning, you're the boss of accessible. grotto. it's accessible. it's a grotto. it's just breakthrough. and just a great breakthrough. and that's be such fun and that's going to be such fun and such a for so many young such a joy for so many young people. still see people. we still see occasionally on social media accessibility as a problem . accessibility as a problem. people who are either blind , people who are either blind, partially sighted and have guide dogs , still not always being dogs, still not always being able to get into shops and venues that they may wish to, particularly this time of year, whether christmas shopping whether it's christmas shopping or with friends for or meeting up with friends for a coffee . absolutely. access coffee. absolutely. access refusals , unfortunately, is refusals, unfortunately, is still common. as you said. still very common. as you said. you will see a lot in the media mainstream and social and is the environment almost always this is the environment that makes people disabled rather than their so—called disability . at their so—called disability. at guide dogs we have our canines here at river, maritime and transport union. we have other services which help people kind of live their life to the fullest in the way they want to.

but course, as you said, we go into shops going into the restaurants , accessing goods and restaurants, accessing goods and services that are just not accessible, not inclusive design to make people disabled. and our guidance stalls campaign, which is kind of was launched in tandem with the grotto , is very tandem with the grotto, is very much about everyone being able to take small actions are labelled me they're the boss of accessible tea. i always say to everyone at guide dogs that accessibility is the responsibility of everyone . the responsibility of everyone. the organisation i'm a supporting role, but if you're a public building like a library, i know that there's a legal obligation and that's that's established in statute. but if you run a cafe or a shop, are you obliged to do it or is it an act of kindness that you jolly well should do anyway? as you said, there's some aspects that i suppose, all our others as are more our law, others as are more guidelines, particularly around building design. if a business. but there that small actions that everyone take whether that's just being of how to guide someone with vision

impairment. as i mentioned our guiding stars campaign or support people to learn more about that which people can learn about on our guide dogs the older website is really just offering that you know, it's okay to ask , it's okay to offer okay to ask, it's okay to offer some help if people would decline, then it's absolutely fine. but you've offered those small things awful long small things go an awful long way the day to day lives of way in the day to day lives of people living with vision impairment you said earlier impairment. as you said earlier about the guiding star campaign . and so much of this is simply about knowing and very few people out there would would would have thinking, lead, try and not helpful because that that fortunately very few people up i like that but you're also very active in schools so as young folk grow up and they may be working and studying alongside somebody is blind alongside somebody who is blind or has a visual impairment of some so what's campaign like some so what's the campaign like schools we do have done and we do quite a lot with schools, just children, young people generally. and i have to say children, young people , the best children, young people, the best or the easiest people to

or maybe the easiest people to work with trying to promote that message of being inclusive and making accessible because they'll do something in school or in some kind of activity outside of school and they'll go away and tell their friends, tell all their family and everyone will listen, or everyone that will listen, or even those who perhaps won't . even those who perhaps won't. and obviously that that's what it's about. it's about it's all about. it's about spreading message not spreading the message that not a lot work. it's just small, lot of work. it's just a small, small gesture, small offerings that can make the world difference. sometimes the most powerful messages aren't a lot of hard that that very, of hard work that that very, very get across . final very simple to get across. final point and you alluded to a lovely river who's sitting down there behaving terribly well. and christmas , all charities and at christmas, all charities are out there trying to gain better understanding, but also gaining support. i heard your chief executive on the radio the other day saying actually waiting time for guide dogs is getting tricky and covid and the coronavirus didn't help very much on that. how fair is it now if somebody out there is listening who has visual impairment or is implied and is hoping for a guide ? what's it

hoping for a guide? what's it like right now ? i think they've like right now? i think they've said that you would have had tom, as you said, very publicly and openly about how the challenges we have and are facing due to covid. and i can say we're quite public about this, but being a member of staff at guide dogs, i know that we are working tirelessly, doesn't even cover the amount of effort, time and passion going bringing down those weights . and bringing down those weights. and so i i'm see where we can make even the smallest improvements that slightest effect even the smallest improvements th.bring slightest effect even the smallest improvements th.bring bring slightest effect even the smallest improvements th.bring bring the htest effect even the smallest improvements th.bring bring the timeseffect even the smallest improvements th.bring bring the times down. to bring bring the times down. so bring waiting times but making sure that we have got that quality that we're well known in river here we known like in in river here we known like in in river here we know it's not easy. and we also will be offering other services such as our my sighted guide campaign and other for those who are on the what we call the ready to train. so that's learning how to use mobility cane independent living skills as well as habilitation services, working visually impaired children and young people. so we are doing

everything we can to bring the times down. in the meantime, we're doing everything we can to make sure people who still have some things can't be rushed. they're absolutely spot on. alex, real pleasure meeting alex, a real pleasure meeting you much for bringing you and you so much for bringing river, transport river, maritime and transport union a brilliantly union and such a brilliantly well trained and brilliantly well trained and brilliantly well dog. hope well behaved dog. i rather hope he leaping all over me, he might be leaping all over me, but do that. but guide dogs don't do that. we, of us here at gb news we, all of us here at gb news wish you the very best luck wish you the very best of luck with the kids will love with grottos. the kids will love that, but also good luck with the fundraising. make that life changing who face changing to people who face challenges that others of us. don't we wish you well at christmas and we wish you well with the schools campaign as well. you much indeed well. thank you very much indeed for in and discussing it for popping in and discussing it with pepper there, the with me. alex pepper there, the head access ability for guide head of access ability for guide dogs and the brilliant quiet dogs uk and the brilliant quiet and perfectly behaved . river and perfectly behaved. river that's all we have time for this weekend. yesterday today. but i will be back next saturday and sunday. i do very much indeed that you'll be able to join me then enjoy the rest of your day

andindeed then enjoy the rest of your day and indeed your week and i'll see you 12:00 on saturday. for all of us here at gb news, a very good afternoon to you. bye bye. looking ahead to this afternoon and the uk looking cloudy and damp in the southeast, but brighter and blustery the northwest . let's blustery in the northwest. let's take look at the details. take a look at the details. scotland will retain a fresh breezes afternoon with scattered showers pushing in to the northwest. these could be heavy at accompanied by hail, at times, accompanied by hail, the odd rumble of thunder. northern ireland will see blustery showers and dry spells as well. temperatures will be slightly down compared to saturday, highs of around saturday, with highs of around ten celsius. northern england will a dry second half of the weekend . the winds will be weekend. the winds will be lighter compared yesterday, so feeling less brisk . whilst much feeling less brisk. whilst much of wales will also be dry, showers will begin feeding into the west along with some sunny spells . any sunshine in the east spells. any sunshine in the east will be rather hazy behind the cloud . there could be some weak cloud. there could be some weak sunshine across england as well, with the thickest cloud continuing to lift and even

where grey skies prevail . it where grey skies prevail. it will remain predominantly dry throughout this afternoon. south east england will see the wettest afternoon with outbreaks of rain and drizzle heavy at times . it of rain and drizzle heavy at times. it will be mildest here though, climbing towards 13 celsius. this rain will likely affect areas from hampshire eastwards , with the potential eastwards, with the potential for some disruption to travel . for some disruption to travel. southwest england will get with a dry afternoon , if still rather a dry afternoon, if still rather cloudy overall , the rain in the cloudy overall, the rain in the southeast will clear during the evening, whilst blustery showers continue pushing into the west and that's how the weather is shaping up for the rest of the day