a museum in london accuses itself of being racist . fifa itself of being racist. fifa allow rainbow flags at the qatari world cup and a cambridge dean claims that jesus was transgender. this free speech nafion transgender. this free speech nation . welcome to free speech nation. welcome to free speech nafion nation. welcome to free speech nation with me andrew doyle. so this is a show where we take a look at culture, current affairs and politics. plus we keep a track on the bizarre antics of those social justice activists

who kindly provide us with enough content for a two hour show every week. coming up. i'm going to be talking to eric kaufmann, a professor of politics at, birkbeck college, about a new which suggests almost half of young people think that britain is structured racist. i'll also be speaking political youtuber mahyar tousi about the bravery of the iran football team and supporters at the world cup in qatar who've been sending a powerful message to government back home to their government back home and feminist campaigner kenny g. keen us how she has keen tell us about how she has been threatened with arrest after reported hate crime after being reported hate crime at a rally in brighton. and political and cultural commentator ella whelan will be here discuss a potential here to discuss a potential conflict disability conflict between disability rights and the right to an abortion. we on with all abortion. but we get on with all of i'd like to welcome my of that. i'd like to welcome my lovely panellists for the evening. i have comedians, sajida and frances foster. and sajida koshy and frances foster. and frances, you've been touring stand—up touring? i've been doing my tour up and down the country. it's been really,

really? yes, it's been a lot of fun. we've got two shows left that i'm doing with leo kearse. are you because he's normally here? he's no , he's. yeah, he here? he's no, he's. yeah, he normally actually sleeps on that. so yeah . so we're doing that. so yeah. so we're doing a show in leicester on the 20th and stafford on the 21st. amazing so to have even i'm okay i will be touring next. oh yeah. yeah i'm going to new zealand australia with the new show. blimey internet. yes, yes. free speech and ask us very know. yes he's got the title now. i dropped the title so i, i had the dream and actually it's all fitting it nicely because then it's about the culture wars. yes. very good. and trends are sort of like thing coming up on facebook and then we're in a rural school if i'm not called is my dream okay so they go yes. so it's all it's happening so happening in wonderful to write it fantastic. and you me some seedsi it fantastic. and you me some seeds i have no seeds and they call challenges seeds and they literally everything apart from death. okay because i had that this week no idea if i didn't

have to if i had to, i'd cope with this. we again for the third time. and you say that this will and 100% yet but you said this will be the next amazing mix with turmeric, cinnamon if you can cinnamon and, garlic, if you can stand it. but you really stand it. but i know you really like i don't mind it because oh, by i'm not i'm by the way, i'm not i'm negative. so we're all like i think the audience are getting a bit nervous. the but thank you for gene, we're going for that. so, gene, we're going to some from lovely to get some from our lovely audience going start with a audience going to start with a question from colin. where is coun? question from colin. where is colin? are you? get colin? hi how are you? get should to stop having to should we have to stop having to use okay, so there's a use he nhs? okay, so there's a report in the times this weekend which pointed out in which pointed out that in the repubuc which pointed out that in the republic are republic of ireland patients are being charged for things such as doctor's and doctor's appointments and hospital 50 a time. hospital up to 50 quid a time. should doing that? well, should we be doing that? well, i think we're really think the question we're really asking is , does the asking ourselves is, does the nhs actually work for the ordinary person ? and the reality ordinary person? and the reality is, andrew, i think it does. what do you mean by that. you mean because you have to have endless queues because, because reach anyone. because because of all of those things it's impossible gp impossible to get a gp appointment. you to wait

appointment. you have to wait months to and see months in order to go and see a consultant. the entire system seems clogged the seems to be clogged up. the reality is it's not working at the moment, so that's what we're mooting y £50 in order mooting is to pay £50 in order to more the system to inject more money. the system and being once they and hopefully being once they get money into the system, get more money into the system, they'll be able to invest in more doctors, nurses, gp's should come the government should come from the government though mean it. they're though i mean isn't it. they're responsible. well jeremy hunt actually more money actually pledged even more money for nhs . i mean the problem for the nhs. i mean the problem is, nhs at the moment is is, is the nhs at the moment is a bureaucratic, bureaucratic black just seems to black hole which just seems to suck and more it and suck more and more money. it and no that's not denigrate no and that's not to denigrate the nurses and the the work the nurses and the doctors girlfriend was doctors do. my girlfriend was was she had to have a pretty major operation on the nhs. the staff were incredible but it was so obvious that they were overstretched . i mean this is overstretched. i mean this is the thing about digital. i kind of feel what is the alternative? i'm a big fan of the nhs. you go to if you're poor you to america if you're poor you get you're trouble. you get sick, you're in trouble. you just don't we want just die. we don't we don't want that here. no and having used the nhs quite a lot in the last few i've seen the good, few years, i've seen the good, the the ugly of it. it's

the bad and the ugly of it. it's not simple matter of not like a simple matter of i mean, you know, waiting times. what if you go into a&e? it's appalling. you mentioned appalling. you just mentioned about, trying to about, like, doctors trying to get when it's good, get doctor. but when it's good, it's you save it's really good. i let you save my however they've also my life. however they've also given me a lot of distress and. i think that's based on individuals within the individuals work within the industry. and also, i would agree with that bureaucracy agree with you that bureaucracy is where the issues is really where where the issues are money is. yeah are most of the money is. yeah but know you've got to make but you know you've got to make the difference. it's a much system. mean, i saw system. i mean, i saw this documentary about the documentary in about the american health care system. there terrible situation there was a terrible situation where a had sawn off where a man had sawn off accidentally fingers accidentally two of his fingers and effectively decide and he effectively had decide which one he wanted sewn back on because he couldn't afford both. right. me is just right. and that to me is just horrible. i use horrible. and, you know, i use all fingers. i don't to all my fingers. i don't want to be faced that of choice. be faced with that of choice. i mean, look, it's a very good point. and the american is obviously awful. and we should avoid am not someone avoid it. and i am not someone who's for private or who's calling for a private or an american, insurance an american, an insurance system. we really system. i just think we really need be honest and just admit need to be honest and just admit that what we have at moment isn't for purpose and it isn't fit for purpose and it needs of some. you needs reforming of some. and you don't i'm sorry, but

don't need that. i'm sorry, but you a sophie's you don't need a sophie's choice. finger which choice. which finger or which testicle lose. mean, that's testicle to lose. i mean, that's that's. you don't want to be that's. no, you don't want to be in that sausage. you know, you don't know what that is. that's what it right. yeah, what the doctor it right. yeah, i i know. we're going i know, i know. now we're going to on to another question to move on to another question now. question from now. we've got a question from peta. here. hi, peter. peta. peta. i'm here. hi, peter. hi. what do you hi. now, what action do you think should be taken against the london fibre guy. okay, so there's this report this there's been this report this week. viral online week. it's gone viral online because fire brigade, because the london fire brigade, it's have a toxic it's been found to have a toxic culture allows bullying and culture that allows bullying and abuse. itis abuse. it's been told that it is systemically racist, misogynistic. pretty misogynistic. i mean, pretty report overall. so is this jail is it a problem of a sort of institutional, systemic thing or is it that there are bad apples within the. know, i always wonder about this kind of thing because system in because if there's a system in place implies that there place that implies that there are rules in place make it are rules in place that make it racist make it misogynistic or are rules in place that make it rait;t make it misogynistic or are rules in place that make it rait justake it misogynistic or are rules in place that make it rait just they're isogynistic or are rules in place that make it rait just they're about istic or are rules in place that make it rait just they're about people? is it just they're about people? i because it seems i don't know, because it seems to up quite a lot. we've to coming up quite a lot. we've got it in the police force and so misogyny the so it's the misogyny the misogyny, the racism we've had that of come before. that kind of come up before. there's lots of, you know there's been lots of, you know

kind said lots of kind of things said that lots of are institutionally racist but with brigade i guess with the fire brigade i guess because it's such a it's such a dangerous job that they do and you know and it should be said about the they do same as the police. yeah. sometimes i wonder if like what is gallows humour what is can go far and what then becomes like banter. it's becomes like banter. but it's actually quite dramatic. those are so dangerous . you can are so dangerous. you can imagine that kind of humour. yeah, the way people deal yeah, that's the way people deal with don't with getting really we don't risk but this is how risk our lives, but this is how they stop in the world this is tougher than being a bomb disposal got to be kidding disposal you got to be kidding right you said what i do know absolutely immense . go on absolutely immense. go on francis. do you think this just gallows? think actually gallows? do you think actually is it more that the officials, the people in charge haven't been doing enough to crack down when there are these issues going think the answer is, going on? i think the answer is, andrew, can so far and sam, it's not what it is. it is figure, you know, like he's just a symbol, a patriarchal system , symbol, a patriarchal system, white man. and we need to rid of

it. you know, you say that. but there was an article a few years ago about how firemen was putting women off, joining the police force because they don't feel represented. do women really life really mistake real life like. oh, actually, i know fire. oh, no, actually, i know fire. we will fire women . yes. they we will fire women. yes. they are stunning and kickass and everything else like they do face things and they have said that they have obsessed firemen. they weren't going to not join fireman sam, but i do think criticism a bit more people than that. i think i think women joined because think they joined because they think they can job and quite rightly can do the job and quite rightly they allowed to take they should be allowed to take they should be allowed to take the job. but i can see where that misogyny, that racism comes in, kind of just like in, that kind of it's just like the an institution that the army, an institution that yeah, i think going to it's yeah, i think it's going to it's going have problems. going to have its problems. i think of us to think think it's naive of us to think that not that whitewash that we're not that to whitewash it over literally and say, oh, no, racism is not real. know if we it, we've killed it, we fixed it, we've killed it, you there there is a you know, there is there is a tendency to think on, tendency to think oh, come on, we are we are a welcoming. we are yes we are a welcoming. however, there still pockets however, there are still pockets of on, but i think of this going on, but i think should leave. simon sam, this has simon lauder leave him out

of going on to of it. i'm going to on to another question this another question now. this from catherine. hi hi. catherine. catherine, hi. hi hi. andrea. should we close museums if their collection bins are not considered work enough . so this considered work enough. so this was a mad thread that was put out there that i noticed this. i retweeted this is from the wellcome trust and the wellcome trust have form on this, right. because wellcome trust a couple of years ago, they pitched event they publicised an event aimed at and and not women at wimax and womex and not women because apparently it's wimax and or is it pronounced? i don't know. so they clearly know. so they have clearly a kind of weird ideological bias, but they've said they're but now they've said they're going one of their going to close one of their permanent displays this is permanent displays. and this is a called medicine man . a display called medicine man. these relating to these are objects relating to sex, birth and death. all of them were collected by sir henry. welcome you the henry. welcome where you get the name collection. and name welcome collection. and that was in the late 19th century. the now says that century. but the now says that this portrays version of medical history that is based on racist sexist ableist theories sexist and ableist theories language. is it anything to do with the fact that he was around in 1800s. well might be to in the 1800s. well might be to do with because if you look

do with it because if you look back on people's behaviour in the pretty the 1800s they were pretty racist, were pretty sexist. racist, they were pretty sexist. yeah. and they were pretty ablest. an issue. ablest. isn't there an issue. there isn't a museum space sort of things of preserve, preserve things from the past. it sounds a bit like they upset because they've got thing old things you know that's it sounds like i'll just say it's old things mean you know my stance on this i don't believe in like cancelling history because history really important you know we can't just like erase all these. and i always think, who benefits always think, who's who benefits from ultimately , we erase from this ultimately, we erase all history . we think it's all this history. we think it's all this history. we think it's a museum it's a museum thing. it's what it's for. in the past had different attitudes to try surprise a ten year old child could have told why is could have told you that why is a of a museum? has to a curator of a museum? it has to shut itself down because someone in the 1800s said to me that we'd have unacceptable, weird, in the 1800s said to me that we'4also e unacceptable, weird, in the 1800s said to me that we'4also e unac1800s. e, weird, in the 1800s said to me that we'4also e unac1800s. i, weird, in the 1800s said to me that we'4also e unac1800s. i don'ti, but also in the 1800s. i don't think that we have like today in this time what racism was was there word sexism there that a word was sexism a word completely isms. they wouldn't that. it's wouldn't have had that. so it's just report history as it was. it's in a museum. just report history as it was. it's in a museum . that's where

it's in a museum. that's where we expect to find these things. yeah, know. is it yeah, i don't know. is it because going triggered because it's going triggered someone? is it someone? what is it? why is it something that is pretty nonsensical. i think they've even was up in even like there was a sign up in the welcome collection saying that reserved a space in that they've reserved a space in a collective a pavilion for collective healing. people going to healing. so if people going to the upset trauma the museum are upset or trauma by seeing from the by seeing artefacts from the past which you know, let's face if you go to a museum, probably going a few of those. you going to see a few of those. you can go to this space, have some healing. and so your life , healing. and so your life, what's going do, you know what's going to do, you know what's going to do, you know what i noticed it what it is it's and i noticed it because actually to the because i actually to the british museum to an exhibition on goddesses in divinity and what happened so they had they had the artefact they had where they found the artefact history of the artefact. and then they had a female comedian explain this artefact was you know why you should find interesting from a female point of view. okay and you just sort number one, this is deeply patronising and number two, it's ridiculous what's going to be the next step. have the elgin marbles explain to you

about david beckham. yeah it is an odd one. is that what i find that's happening now? whenever i go to an exhibit or something, there's always a sign up. so lecturing about why we should find it offensive. and i find that really weird, you know, put by all means put them in a historical context, but i don't need to be that today. that explains i know. explains me. oh, i don't know. i think need that sometimes. think i need that sometimes. don't know that to be don't know that i need to be offended. and i remind you enough you've enough said, you know, you've got it. oh, my god. got to get with it. oh, my god. feel so guilty. i haven't been offended. yeah. nobody put a sign it's not fault. you sign up. it's not my fault. you should offended by the words should be offended by the words and people of who've and actions by people of who've been centuries. the been dead for centuries. and the people we really need to talk to dead people away for dead people be going away for way these dead people sick way too. these dead people sick them. it's not them. but it's not. but it's not it's just that. it's also as it's not just that. it's also as well we now need. we've got well that we now need. we've got this weird to project our this weird desire to project our own onto these people own morality onto these people and, our ways of viewing the and, our own ways of viewing the world. but there was this ancient hindu goddess in this who kind of a shapeshifter who was kind of a shapeshifter and, you know, sometimes she appeared woman sometimes appeared as a woman sometimes appeared as a woman sometimes appeared spirit, sometimes

appeared as a spirit, sometimes she appeared and they she appeared as a man. and they went and then this went there and then this podcast, comedian went , went there and then this podcast, comedian went, i podcast, the comedian went, i see goddess as they see this this goddess as they then i doubt the goddess used pronouns again. i don't this is not only quite offensive to historians stories, but also i think for hindus who probably don't gender ideology being protested on they god it's a weird kind of arrogance. we impose our own obsessions onto every facet of the past. i mean , i find it bizarre. yeah very interesting, though. we're going to move on to another question now. and this one is from katherine. this is katherine with a c. so time last time with a c. so last time last time i had katherine of the k, i was cut from the same qualifications. yeah. you see diversity that's talked diversity that's been talked about feet , fur about i.e. pleased feet, fur back down over rain hats. well, thank you. like yeah fifa. so as you know, the world cup is going on in qatar which is about my limit of my of what's going on out there. but the sport's governing body, they they've been angering fans with their treatment of those who to display the rainbow symbol the

lgbt choir plus or whatever it's called now. and fans wales's opening match against usa they wore rainbow bucket hats and flags these were confiscated then fifa reversed course now they're saying, no, you can wear they're saying, no, you can wear the rainbow stuff. so where are they standing on this? because isn't it elite that they kill people being gay in qatar? well, you get i think it's up to something like six years imprisonment that's right. then yeah fine, you yeah that's which is fine, you know, it's out of know, they know it's out of sight, mind. know sight, out of mind. you know what mean? but i think we've what i mean? but i think we've been obsessing about this fact when we've been obsessing about it obviously awful, but it and it's obviously awful, but we don't the six and a half now, thousand migrant who actually died stadiums , we died building the stadiums, we don't the other aspects don't mention the other aspects of qatar's appalling human record and more important inputs . we don't challenge fifa enough for actually giving this tournament. so why do we integrate . oh, i mean, is it integrate. oh, i mean, is it weird? i mean, they they have a terrible human rights record. i know why why do it? why even go that know why go there? but

that i know why go there? but i don't know if you remember the few weeks here on show, i said we should all go passive or we should all go do passive or wear outfits. oh yeah. wear rainbow outfits. oh yeah. it serve and play, you know, kissed girl and gay bar and kissed a girl and gay bar and all that. yeah. so but the all that. yeah. so yeah but the thing that that is a protest thing is that that is a protest but it's fifa. fifa saying, no, not qatar. right so qatar probably don't even know what the rainbows about. so they wouldn't have known. so what wouldn't have known. so what would been a nice thing to would have been a nice thing to do. but why fifa getting offended again, someone getting offended again, someone getting offended is offended to somebody else is that that if that fifa are nervous that if they this sort of thing to they allow this sort of thing to go they will get go ahead, then they will get kicked or they will cause kicked out or they will cause trouble with them out because actually actually actually that might actually highlight what's going on there. you be already. you will be paid already. i don't like it's a big deal. why go there the first place? but i agree with you. it is a hypocrisy because it's not a catch it's we're still do catch all. it's we're still do you know events in other you know sports events in other places have human places which don't have human rights, you know, kind of record. and actually think record. yes. and actually think iran's more courage by iran's showed more courage by what they did by not singing the national anthem. yes we did. and i'm ashamed of fifa, actually. yes. i mean , this is an

yes. i mean, this is an interesting thing. it's the double standards of things. it's a double standards of thing. a double standards of the thing. and as well. no and it's all true as well. no one really cares. it's really you know, it's really easy to stand up for, you know, equality diverse city in islington in nonh diverse city in islington in north london amongst all your work might . north london amongst all your work might. right. north london amongst all your work might . right. then when work might. right. but then when they were asked to wear the rainbow armband, harry kane wanted to do it, he got threatened with a yellow and then he backed down. yeah, sure thing if you'd done that to gandhl thing if you'd done that to gandhi, the same thing would have is this have happened. but this is this protest with yeah, protest comes with risk. yeah, right. know, gandhi right. so, you know, when gandhi was sort of peaceful was doing his sort of peaceful non resistance, he was non resistance, he knew he was going hurt. yeah, that's going to get hurt. yeah, that's point. there's a risk that comes with it if you're like, oh, i might get a yellow card. so i better do it. i mean, come better not do it. i mean, come on, man up. well, yellow is part the there is that. the rainbow and there is that. yeah, suppose that was yeah, i suppose maybe that was just add more cards and just going to add more cards and create the right the hypocrisy. so i mean we've about this so jade, i mean we've about this on the show before know on the show before that you know when corporations when you get these corporations flying the rainbow flag in pride month over london month all over london london is

awash but you awash with it and then but you go to the middle east equiv flint website and there's no flag i wonder why i mean flag that i wonder why i mean that's that's you know that's that's so that's you know that's not really that's really not that's really that's really sad you're scared of what sad that you're scared of what you lose a result if it you might lose a result if it actually those actually means something. those eyes what i'm eyes mean it that's what i'm saying. it something. so do it. there some there because show some backbone. we got backbone. absolutely but we got another question now. this is from where michela? from michela where is michela? hi, michela. is hi, michela hello, michela. is it michela? thanks. it michela? yeah, thanks. oh, wow. is, could wow. the question is, could jesus been transgender. jesus have been transgender. could have been could jesus have been transgender, actually. jesus i think . well, i don't know. what think. well, i don't know. what do we i mean, no is the answer with that. this is like the dean of where is it. trinity college, cambridge oh really. yeah. so cambridge oh really. yeah. so cambridge university did a sermon or invited a speaker to do some. and at evensong in the chapel and the speaker talked about how christ had a trans body. but did you see the reason? i mean, it was that there was a there was a wound in there was a there was a wound in the image of christ. and they said that this had connotations,

female genitalia. it's a wound. yeah, but it's a wound in not right place. so they haven't done either. the done biology either. no, the joint last time joint is not there. last time i looked. it an obsessive looked. is it is it an obsessive need a can we go back to what we're talking about with the wellcome collection of imposing current current trends current obsessions where it obsessions on things where it just doesn't fit . yeah just doesn't fit. yeah but there's when go there's sometimes when you go back makes sense that back history it makes sense that you when they thought you remember when they thought that and it made that jesus was black and it made sense he's in the middle sense because he's in the middle east. there was some east. you know, there was some logic it this has logic behind it this has no logic. just happened. this logic. this just happened. this has be what's has just happens to be what's this? guess that's now. and this? i guess that's now. and we're going to take into we're going to take it into biblical stuff and actually offending the way because offending on the way because something really some something that really upset some christians. it's offended christians. yeah, it's offended christians. yeah, it's offended christians you know christians and i think, you know fair yes fair enough free speech. yes that's kind of that's what we're kind of standing but you haven't standing for. but you haven't really this and really thought this through and whose going by? whose agenda are you going by? this is just to fit in narrative or perhaps to recruit trans christians like know perhaps to get the and get them on the course. and i wonder why they've gone well . i wonder why they've gone well. i mean, i wonder about this. i did read a book when. i was a kid called the sacred virgin in the holy, which was a conspiracy

theory that jesus was theory book that said jesus was a and, you know, i was a woman. and, you know, i was young and stupid, so i bought it. but it's actually it's actually read it again, actually when you read it again, actually when you read it again, a of nonsense. but is it a load of nonsense. but is it just this idea of kind of a revisionist to history? so, francis, an example francis, to give you an example of so a lot trans of this, so a lot of trans activists say the stonewall riots largely organised and riots were largely organised and perpetrated trans women perpetrated by black trans women . it's not true. it's lesbians and gay men. but say these were totally revised history, even though you pick up a history book and you can see it's not true. and a way, what they're true. and in a way, what they're doing is trying to reclaim and sort of say, well, look, these have always been prominent in society that helps society and therefore that helps our what's our cause today is that's what's going are just i don't going on. there are just i don't know. be honest. know know. i'll be honest. i know what's on. it'sjust know. i'll be honest. i know what's on. it's just now what's going on. it's just now it's come point it's almost come to the point where it's beyond parody . well, where it's beyond parody. well, it is a joke. it's like it's like the globe saying that joan of or queen elizabeth of arc was or queen elizabeth the non—binary because the first was non—binary because if shows of if a woman shows kind of strength independence strength or independence or moral can't be moral, she can't really be a woman, can she? i that's really what's it. exactly and what's behind it. exactly and it's deliberately misinterpreted saying, you know, the speeches

of instance, in that case, it's elizabeth, the first. whereas i think if you to elizabeth that she was non—binary one sheet on really understood what non—binary meant she would probably execute right. probably have to execute right. exactly. yeah and rightly exactly. yeah. yeah and rightly so. okay if i just call execution of tv though. well, i mean, that is really in with your persona . sure. why not? your persona. sure. why not? anyway, we're going to have to go to break on that. i've got a meeting with ofcom after the break. i'm free speech nation professor kaufmann , who's professor eric kaufmann, who's been carrying some research been carrying out some research and fascinating poll and this is a fascinating poll which almost of which says that almost half of young think britain was young people think britain was founded racism and continues founded on racism and continues to structurally racist . so to be structurally racist. so he's going to be here tell us he's going to be here to tell us a more, join us in a couple a lot more, join us in a couple of minutes .

which welcome back an important report for the politics think

tank has suggested that a lot of young people are being taught fashionable theories as unconscious , as uncontested fact unconscious, as uncontested fact . so the report says that a majority of the age group 18 to 24 believes, quote, that schools teach students that britain was founded on racism and remains structurally racist. today the research was carried out by eric, an academic at birkbeck university of london for the policy exchange. think and he joins me now. eric kaufmann, welcome. great to here. can you talk us through study that you've done for the policy exchange unit? are your key findings here? well, yeah. so there is this narrative that, you know, all this talk about indoctrination schools and critical of critical race theory is kind of a right plot, moral panic. it's not happening. you know, just actually the other day, john bercow was saying, oh, it's greatly exaggerate it. and that's kind of the narrative that's kind of the narrative that we're getting from the left and even of the centre. so what i wanted to do was say, well, do a representative of 18 to a representative sample of 18 to 20 olds them about 20 year olds and ask them about what were taught school. what they were taught in school. so random draw of

so this is a random draw of young people and what we find is actually a majority of these young are getting critical race and critical gender theory in their schools. so this is this is a fact you can't deny. this is a fact you can't deny. this is a fact you can't deny. this is a random survey. we're talking about exposure of millions of people. this is something i don't understand, because when don't us and the that proposed liberal values and anti—racism they looked into this they had freedom of information requests across many schools and borough council and it was it turned out that critical race theory deeply critical race theory is deeply embedded. do people keep embedded. why do people keep it? well, lying . they well, they're just lying. they are just they are . it's are just they are. it's a combination of lying or not wanting to know. i don't not exactly sure what is. now, exactly sure what it is. now, what did with do a lot of what they did with do a lot of those schools didn't answer the fly then lot of fly right? and then lot of people said, well, you the people said, well, you know, the council recommending these materials, but schools materials, but the schools aren't again , it's aren't teaching them again, it's just but but what done just nonsense. but but what done is talk to the pupils is actually talk to the pupils when you can look at young people 1500. do you have people in 1500. yes. do you have any what are the any specific what are the attitudes young have attitudes that young people have

towards structural racism or the concept genderidentity, concept of gender identity, ideology, this kind of thing? well, let me run you well, yeah so let me run you through just to through a few questions, just to give a sense of this. right. give you a sense of this. right. so britain a racist country? so is britain a racist country? 61% of the 18 to twenties would say yes . now, if we ask say yes. now, if we ask a question, should j.k. rowling be dropped by her publisher ? you dropped by her publisher? you know, they're split evenly . yes, know, they're split evenly. yes, she should be dropped. and no she should be dropped. and no she shouldn't compare to if you take the 50 plus population, it's 85. no, she should be dropped and only 5, whereas amongst the young people's 50, 51, they i mean, i know the survey probably didn't go this far but can any of those kids justify that position. i mean, you know, if you have like half of saying rowling of them saying j.k. rowling should a publisher, can should be by a publisher, can they explain? because there isn't really a reason. there? isn't really a reason. is there? well, they would well, i think they would probably oh, she's probably just say, oh, she's transphobic you transphobic or something, you know, i don't know, i mean, i don't i don't think a whole lot of think there's a whole lot of thought going into it other than she has offended marginalised she has offended a marginalised group. the point though group. so the point there though is is indicative of is that that is indicative of indoctrination, because indoctrination, isn't it because because or

because there is no logical or legitimate saying she should legitimate for saying she should be is be dropped. so it is just a mantra at that point. well yeah, i mean i think. well if your value system is such that any sort emotional offence caused to marginalised is the most marginalised group is the most important and free speech important. yes. and free speech then falls down. truth falls down that then. yeah, it makes sense. of course that's what you believe that is the most believe that this is the most important thing in the world. now would say is they're now what i would say is they're getting mainly social getting that mainly from social media, celebrity culture. i mean, reinforcing mean, schools are reinforcing and challenging. seven in and not challenging. seven in ten of these young people said this was to them as this stuff was taught to them as or fact. now that's or less fact. now that's surprise, isn't it? because, you know, a this stuff has know, a lot of this stuff has been accelerated over the past ten, years. in all that ten, 12 years. and in all that time , conservative government time, conservative government has charge . so has been in charge. so conservatives say they're fighting war on woke. it would seem me the they're pushing seem to me the they're pushing it. well what they're doing is they essentially turning they are essentially turning a blind eye while the what i call cultural socialist left more or less takes the field and indoctrinated this stuff in schools. they simply saying, schools. so they simply saying, oh where doing something oh yeah, where doing something about look we've set out

about woke look we've set out some guidelines about what you're allowed to teach blm you're not allowed to teach blm but teach anti—racism but you can teach anti—racism and you can teach that britain is systemically and systemic racism thing as part of racism is a thing as part of these consensus values . so they these consensus values. so they haven't got serious about the problem. so i would say even though we've had this conservative government, a lot of them are embarrassed. they're cowardly, they understand cowardly, they don't understand . they're not doing anything . so they're not doing anything about that they about it. that latter that they don't understand what's don't understand that what's going because, going on here. because, you know, average person, know, if you the average person, you know you teachers you know, do you think teachers in schools should should stand up against everyone's going to say yes . and schools have done say yes. and schools have done a really job and a really really good job and a really good job of when racism tackling it . that's not it challenging it. that's not what this anti—racism teaching or ideology is. it's the that every human has racism at its core and that all white people are complicit in rates of white supremacy, whether they like it or not. that's a huge leap from just challenging racism. right. but you see, what they've done is expanded is they've expanded the definition from what definition of racism from what you would understand it to you and i would understand it to mean, is what you just

mean, which is what you just mentioned big ideology mentioned to this big ideology that have this free that you can have this free floating any floating racism without any actual they're actual racism. so they're they're this ideology they're pushing this ideology under cover of this term under the cover of this term anti—racism. so not smuggling that in the politicians in the various people, which i just don't understand. i hear don't understand. i just hear the phrase anti—racism. they think it's we're opposed to racism. partly that partly racism. well, partly that partly they're scared because if they're scared because if they're something they're against something that says tin, says anti—racism on the tin, they're scared going to they're scared they're going to be racist. and be accused of being racist. and also care also they just care enough. i mean, they care about economic management. mean, the management. i mean, the conservative party is full of essentially business liberals . essentially business liberals. they care about they don't really care about culture. of them. and so culture. most of them. and so they're to let woke in they're going to let woke in the schools the institutions schools and the institutions civil service go to town . civil service nhs go to town. but it's very myopic isn't because if you think about what this might the long term if this might for the long term if education institutions which are meant be about the production meant to be about the production of if they of knowledge and truth, if they longer truth but longer value objective truth but instead value live experience instead value live experience instead , then that means we're instead, then that means we're going to end up with a future generation that doesn't understand importance of truth. and of course , free speech. and of course, free speech. yeah. mean, think the

yeah. i mean, i think the conservatives have convinced themselves somehow, oh, well, once mortgage and once they get a mortgage and they families, they'll all they have families, they'll all start voting in fact, start voting tory. in fact, that's just because if we look at the survey data, it's all about their cultural attitude that's their voting. yes that's driving their voting. yes not about whether they have a mortgage. our that a mortgage. our people that have a mortgage. our people that have a mortgage are paying tax, are mortgage and are paying tax, are they likely vote tory they more likely to vote tory not really. to to afford not really. to be able to afford a mortgage. even if they a mortgage. well, even if they have mortgage, this have a mortgage, it matter. this is material question. it's is not a material question. it's about virus they've about a mind virus that they've through social and through social media and celebrity culture and at school. and that's shaped who they are. so what doesn't really matter what material circumstances they're in. so i think the they're in. and so i think the conservatives really conservatives are really deluding would deluding themselves and i would predict generation predict once this generation comes of age, becomes the median voter . yeah, the conservatives voter. yeah, the conservatives will be to a kind of national party opposition like in canada . the conservatives, you know, they'll get into office , but they'll get into office, but they'll get into office, but they are going to be an actual of opposite. you know, thanks to your report and with other work by it and various by don't divide it and various we have now incontrovertible we do have now incontrovertible yes these ideologies are

yes that these ideologies are being peddled in schools. this is not the equivalent of a suddenly deciding that all uk schools need to be in nature and that we need to teach some sort of cultish worldview as though it fact and isn't that a it were fact and isn't that a majorly serious problem? it is a huge problem . it is just huge problem. it is just astounding how sort of the tories are on watch. i mean, they're just letting this happen . yeah. whereas if you look at other jurisdictions, you look at ron desantis in florida or there are periods like in the conservatives in the 1980s in canada, they said we're going to teach about a comfortable teach about mao in a comfortable revolution. in the end, the gulags yes. and they changed the curriculum do that. curriculum and you can do that. but government but this government simply not been interested . so am wrong been interested. so am i wrong to be optimistic about young people? it's just that when i give talks at various universities of the young universities a lot of the young people come, want be people who come, they want to be challenged come along and challenged to come along and talk i get talk me afterwards. i don't get this people this sense of young people trying to everything down, trying to shut everything down, you know, maybe maybe that's just i'm not interesting just because i'm not interesting enough you enough to shut down. but, you know, i getting this wrong?

know, am i getting this wrong? i you are probably getting you are you probably getting a selection people coming selection of people coming to you. for so if you look you. i mean, for so if you look at, you know, opinion in at, you know, public opinion in the as i said, 60% saying the round, as i said, 60% saying britain is a racist city. you know, we there a survey, know, we had there was a survey, 60% that universities 60% think that universities should people should be protecting people from speech. more than allowing free speech. more than allowing free speech. yeah i think that the modal default programming that they're university they're coming to university with already, i don't think the universities doing that universities are doing that much. it's actually the school's celebrity culture, etc. are celebrity culture, etc. they are coming you know, coming to university, you know, with this cultural socialist mindset saying that, you know, when helen joyce gave a talk at john bernanke's college in cambridge, there were academics sort well , let's be honest, sort of well, let's be honest, lying about and what she lying about her and what she said encouraging students said and encouraging students protest and try and drown her words with noises and drums and blaring horns all the rest of it. so it is to an extent coming from ideologically driven academics who are more activist rather academics . yeah, rather than academics. yeah, definitely. what would definitely. so what i would say is academics are is the activist academics are influencing the schools are influencing the schools are influencing the schools are influencing the wider culture . influencing the wider culture. yes. think that in class yes. i don't think that in class most students are because

indoctrinated. i think they're already in the report. we can see that even people who haven't attended university , they're attended university, they're taking a year before they attend university they well university. they are as well because the people that at university don't but and university so i don't but and a number of studies have shown this programmed by the this they're programmed by the time they step the campus. time they step onto the campus. can ask , though? i'm can i ask, though? i mean, i'm still contact with a lot of still in contact with a lot of teachers i to be a teacher teachers i used to be a teacher and do send messages of and they do send me messages of training they have training sessions. they have to see unconscious bias see this unconscious bias session evidence session with all the evidence tells us achieves absolutely nothing going nothing and they still going ahead various lectures about white or gender white privilege or gender identity ideology and what's clear from the people who contacted is that they're afraid , that they're scared to say we don't any this, because if don't in any of this, because if they do that. it's not necessarily they'll be fired, but get promoted when but they won't get promoted when the next comes up. right. is that what is about? that's that what this is about? that's partly about partly what it's partly about being scared, but it's also partly seeing this partly people seeing this kind of glow, around the of velvet glow, love around the iron that says anti racism iron fist that says anti racism or transphobia and or anti transphobia and thinking. how can you be against that? it's nice and i'm that? it's so nice and i'm a caring person , you know. so for

caring person, you know. so for example amongst academics you university a majority of university profs a majority of them will support these diversity statements being mandatory . you can apply for mandatory. you can apply for a grant or be accepted into a job. you have to sign up to this religion before you get it. i'm totally politically discriminatory or they'll support these decolonised reading lists, this agenda, right? so there are a lot of people who are going with it because it sounds nice and they think, you know, i'm a caring person. yes. so i don't i think that thing. that is the bigger thing. i think there is fear as well. but i don't think fear is the main thing. i think there's a lot of true belief. is there also a financial incentive incentives, quite it? it quite big business, isn't it? it is business. but again, i is a big business. but again, i think all those things kind think all of those things kind of follow on from the fact that this religion is believed in by a lot of people. right so i think has just become think this has just become dominant once dominant in the culture. once something dominant something becomes the dominant belief drives us, you belief system it drives us, you know, who are know, people who are after status and money all of status and money and all of these it starts to pay these things. it starts to pay to signal so to virtue signal belief. so we're out time . to virtue signal belief. so we're out time. but to virtue signal belief. so we're out time . but erica we're out of time. but erica do want people able to see

want people to be able to see this from their selves, this report from their selves, because a very because i think it's a very important report. where can people yeah. if you people find it? yeah. so if you go online and just sort of google policy exchange culture wars, able to find wars, you should be able to find the download them and if the reports download them and if you the time just read you don't at the time just read you don't at the time just read you the page or two you know the first page or two of has the bullet point of which has the bullet point summary. the time that summary. and the next time that someone critical race, someone says critical race, there a right myth that there is a right wing myth that can lead direct. these are the facts. people think facts. i mean, if people think that true , do another that that's not true, do another study show me i'm wrong. study and show me i'm wrong. fantastic. eric kaufmann, thank you indeedindeed. fantastic. eric kaufmann, thank you indeed indeed . and you very much indeed indeed. and after the break on free speech nation, we're to be hearing about how the iranian football team supporters have been team and supporters have been using the world cup to show their distaste for the country's regime. see you in a minute.

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation me andrew doyle. later in

the show , i'm going to be the show, i'm going to be turning agony uncle with the help of my wonderful panel, sajida kureishi and frances foster and are going to help you to deal with your unfiltered. so if any problem if you have any problem whatsoever, email us at and whatsoever, just email us at and we will do our level best to all of your issues. we will do our level best to all of your issues . so it's been an of your issues. so it's been an emotional week for the iranian footballers and supporters , the footballers and supporters, the world cup in qatar ahead monday's game against england. the stayed silent during national anthem as they offered their support. national anthem as they offered their support . the protests their support. the protests which have swept the country since the death in police custody of moussa amini. it's some of the players could face reprisals for their silence when go home and when iran were back in action against wales on monday , some players mumbled monday, some players mumbled their way the anthem while the fans booed , jeered at the regime fans booed, jeered at the regime . so here to tell me some more about the protests i'm pleased to welcome the political to welcome at the political youtube commentator mahyar tousi thank you very much for joining me today . this is real bravery, me today. this is real bravery, isn't it mean we talk about the

various protests taking the knee rainbow flags, that kind of thing, does here thing, that football does here do. but there's something really at iranian players at stake when iranian players refuse national refuse to sing the national anthem. that. anthem. isn't that. yes, absolutely. goes beyond absolutely. and it goes beyond that, is quite that, which is quite interesting, because whilst it's absolutely brave , as you absolutely brave, as you mentioned, obviously they they will be facing consequences or their families iran. so will be facing consequences or theirfamilies iran. so when their families in iran. so when in june the first game, they didn't national didn't sing the national absolutely for the absolutely brave but for the iranians iran as a culture iranians in iran as a culture they're not into virtue signalling for them while they still acknowledge that brave they to the about they actually said to the about they actually said to the about the players you don't to do that you shouldn't have gone to be a danger to be and it's a position to not sing the national anthem. so them was too so for them that was too gimmicky then . but then of gimmicky by then. but then of course the second game they were forced by unanimity on that point i mean, i would have point. i mean, i would have thought some of the protesters in the would be in iran at the moment would be quite any kind of support quite happy. any kind of support on international stage? on the international stage? well, that's interesting because obviously was obviously from my position was initially well, maybe initially thought, well, maybe we just boycotted by the we should just boycotted by the iranian players and boycott the whole then

whole world cup. but then i realise actually no, and even the second game they were forces mumbled national anthem way mumbled the national anthem way i now while some iranians i see it now while some iranians iran are angry that their players still people players are still while people are killed in. fact the are getting killed in. fact the longer they stay the world longer they stay in the world cup, more attention they're cup, the more attention they're going mean, going to actually. yeah. i mean, we're about it right we're talking about it right now. yeah mean so just to give us an update on the iranian protest obviously there protest so obviously there was the of this the death in custody of this young by morality police, young woman by morality police, the called themselves the group that called themselves the morality police because she wasn't hijab wasn't wearing the hijab properly or the covering properly. this led to this properly. and this led to this huge revolution, really. huge well revolution, really. and it's gaining momentum in a way that previous attempts of these of things haven't . these kind of things haven't. you've lots of men you've got now lots of men involved, lots of people who are against the regime. they're very open. they're not afraid. i mean, see a of these mean, you see a lot of these women online about how women talking online about how they're anymore. women talking online about how they're seen anymore. women talking online about how they're seen theirinymore. women talking online about how they're seen their friends. they've seen their friends killed beaten, but they killed and beaten, but they really want to this done. really want to see this done. are you do you this is are you do you think this is something might actually something that might actually lead regime lead ultimately to regime change? that change? it's not just that they're of actually change? it's not just that theythe of actually change? it's not just that theythe fear of actually change? it's not just that theythe fear completely,ally change? it's not just that theythe fear completely, which lost the fear completely, which is quite abnormal for any human because fear

because we always have fear in our blood that this mass our blood and so that this mass i mean and 22 year old who was killed and this was a spark for something that's already started this this uprising essentially the movement's start in 2017. and it was a what i call it the coastal revolution. and it really political. and then 2019 got bigger than covid up and it was a bit of a pause as essentially subconsciously the nafion essentially subconsciously the nation was waiting for any excuse, a spark yes. so then i died. it wasn't my plans. oh, well, she died. let's just take advantage of her death. no, it wasn't that. it was just that organic it felt like an eruption of emotion and. and you know, people it's interesting people say it's interesting that this a feminist this has come from a feminist background because women are sick having to cover their sick of having to cover their faces their hair, which they didn't have to do before the iranian the iranian revolution. this was this this this was this was this a relatively new thing? and people say cultural say it's just a cultural difference. well, iran have difference. well, no, iran have this history. no. and right now , all classes, all and all

genders, everyone's out. yeah, but it's led by a younger generation and by younger generations, all generations then like the kids . yes, but the then like the kids. yes, but the interesting thing about them is the one the persian culture of about all iranians from persians , kurds and turkish and they have this coincidental similarity with the anglo—saxon kind of mentality is they don't really they do , but not really really they do, but not really virtue statement. they're not woke. so all this stuff that you see that know to protect them women. yeah not for some sort of third wave feminism to come along and they don't want to affiliate it with any of the kind of globalist movements. but the reality is that was on the chance that while they're all out younger kids say and out but the younger kids say and to shah the previous year , to the shah the previous year, sorry, and to it to sorry, we're sorry. and to it to his the crown prince and his son, the crown prince and exile, back. back. and exile, come back. come back. and it's like that. they all it's not like that. they all definitely want the king back. they're just with more a kind they're just with more of a kind of forgiveness we made of for forgiveness that we made a actually say that a mistake actually say that our parents we will

parents made a mistake we will fix well, i mean, you see fix it. well, i mean, you see a lot of young women dancing, which is against the law burning their veils. i mean, these kind of incredibly mean, of incredibly i mean, that's, again, but i spoke again, real bravery. but i spoke to to women this program to him to women on this program , were talking about how they feel really being let down feel that really being let down by feminists west, by feminists in the west, feminists say turn a feminists who often say turn a blind eye, shall we say , or even blind eye, shall we say, or even sometimes have argued , as has sometimes have argued, as has been argued in publications like the that wearing the the guardian, that wearing the veil is empowering. yeah. what's very easy to say, isn't it? it's a choice. not so easy to say if you're beaten sticks for not doing when this doing so. this is why when this iranian revolution is completed and will happen, it's just a and it will happen, it's just a matter timing, it going to do matter of timing, it going to do to no one's going to to be crushed no one's going to like stop shaking hands. they like stop shaking hands. they like everything's fine now. like go everything's fine now. yeah, what yeah, this could actually what is be very bloody but is going to be very bloody but is going to be very bloody but is be quite bright for the is could be quite bright for the future actually for the west because the iranian whether it's the women when it comes to fighting individual liberty or self—determination any other social cause they could lead the movement the wave against the western liberals to show for

example because right now the reason the liberal feminists are not really saying enough is it's awkward, it's political incorrect. they think that they might offend random male might offend some random male muslim in the west that well , muslim in the west that well, what kind of kind of support this iranian woman. but why would western liberals always stand most stand up for the most reactionary, ultraconservative elements within islam? why not stand you know, gay stand up for the, you know, gay muslims , muslims? know, why muslims, muslims? you know, why not for the oppressed? muslims, muslims? you know, why not don't for the oppressed? muslims, muslims? you know, why not don't see r the oppressed? muslims, muslims? you know, why not don't see it:he oppressed? muslims, muslims? you know, why not don't see it thatppressed? muslims, muslims? you know, why not don't see it that wayssed? they don't see it that way because , again, psychologically because, again, psychologically , the overall philosophical leftists , they just see an leftists, they just see an underdog status. these are differences , punching down and differences, punching down and punching up. so for them , when punching up. so for them, when it comes to a again , a muslim it comes to a again, a muslim man from the middle east, but they don't see them. they to go there. they want they see the ones who are here. they call them migrants or refugees and they they are underdogs. so they basically blind when basically turn a blind eye when it all the other stuff it comes to all the other stuff they and they if that they have. and if they if that person you know, sexist person has, you know, sexist views racist views, views or racist views, a homophobic views, they don't see

it priority because they it as a priority because they see as it's necessarily see it as it's not necessarily enemy or a friend. but enemy an enemy or a friend. but similar concern. they well, similar concern. they say, well, there conservatives in there are white conservatives in there are white conservatives in the they don't like this the west. they don't like this migrants. that migrants. so they think that obviously it's not true. they say we're going out to back say so we're going out to back them. so you end up with this sanctification of what they perceive marginalised perceive to be marginalised groups, even within those marginalised have marginalised groups you can have incredibly oppressive forces. and back the home they and i mean back in the home they are the conservatives . yes, are the conservatives. yes, exactly. it's like the taliban . exactly. it's like the taliban. if someone if a taliban member banned over the last decade or so but come here, if they had , so but come here, if they had, they would see them as marginalised. all cuddly. but now, of course in afghanistan leading. yeah. so now it's time for the liberals to actually criticise the they're not doing it, they're not supporting it but they're basically saying well it's probably best to just not saying well quite selective aren't they. just bring it aren't they. so just bring it back football. you back to the football. do you think will be think that there will be potential for these potential repercussion for these players you mentioned players like? you mentioned that, you know, some back that, you know, some people back iran necessarily happy iran are not necessarily happy about but there about their tactics, but there is from regime for

is an risk from the regime for behaving way, isn't there? or do you think they will be okay? i think that they might get into trouble with the actual people and the because the people in iran are still against general kind of stereotype . their kind of stereotype. their perception is that you're not brave enough because iranian footballers and former footballers and former footballers have been arrested in iran because . been more in iran because. been more vocal. yes. and there's a couple of there that football legends in, iran, have been like basically arrested. but they say, well , why weren't you brave say, well, why weren't you brave enough not to go to qatar while you're following the orders basically and think they're not going to be able to completely going to be able to completely go off there? every single person in terms of celebrity and big names, they have arrested a couple of celebrities in freedom because when it's too big, you create new martyr. so they don't want to do that, but it's too late. completely lost control this point. okay. well, do you feel the final question? do feel just the final question? do you know, we've you feel that, you know, we've seen iranian women the seen some iranian women in the stands, their their

stands, qatar, with their their placards and their signs, and it feels a bit like they're putting people harry. kane here feels a bit like they're putting peophe harry. kane here feels a bit like they're putting peophe won't harry. kane here feels a bit like they're putting peophe won't weararry. kane here feels a bit like they're putting peophe won't weararr rainbow here says he won't wear a rainbow flag because does want to flag because he does want to get yellow yeah, they're yellow card. yeah, well, they're risking the women are risking a whole lot more. yeah, absolutely. and was there absolutely. and it was there were couple clips where the were a couple of clips where the iranian laughing there, iranian are laughing out there, some the armbands some of the they the armbands and symbols that they and the symbols that they some of them kind of westerners, of them are kind of westerners, iranian fans english iranian english fans or english players doing the saying, well, what about? it what are you fighting about? it is for them, these fights are. but for them to say, well, if you want to in favour of any you want to be in favour of any fight course support us , fight and course support us, just we just want just want freedom. we just want to . and it's not really to live. and it's not really about us. face it very, very interesting see you interesting to see thank you very indeed . and after the very much indeed. and after the break, my panel will be back and we're going be talking about rishi sunak and whether was right to reject a swiss style deal with the eu and go right.

to welcome back to free speech nation. some panel discussion. francis foster with me now and i want to have a quick chat about politics. so last weekend, the sunday times reported that the prime minister, rishi sunak and chancellor hunt inclined to chancellor hunt were inclined to seek was dubbed a swiss style deal with the european union, which would remove trade barriers and lead to a softer type of brexit. but the prime minister moved quickly to rule out saying, under my leadership the uk will not pursue any relationship with europe that relies on alignment with eu rules . so it's a bit of an about rules. so it's a bit of an about and it does strike me , francis, and it does strike me, francis, that the tories don't really know what they want. you know, i mean we've had obviously truss and her mini budget and kwarteng and her mini budget and kwarteng and idea economic growth and the idea of economic growth being the priority and then you have, know, jeremy come have, you know, jeremy hunt come in that and in and completely that and reverse then you've reverse it. then you've got rishi for reason rishi saying for some reason we've swiss we've to entertain this swiss style arrangement with the eu, which was bound to annoy brexit voters, given they voted this

government in on the basis of getting brexit done . and now he getting brexit done. and now he says, actually, we won't says, actually, no, we won't bother do they just bother with that do they just not what they stand not know what they stand anymore? and before that there was that was theresa and before that there cameron. he was there was david cameron. he was a pro—eu minister and theresa may a pro—eu prime minister may was a pro—eu prime minister as well. you have to say that the problem of the conservative party and it's not just the conservative party, it's also the that a the labour party is that have a generation politicians who generation of politicians who have if you look back have no vision if you look back to previous politicians , it's to previous politicians, it's thatcher whether it's blair, you can disagree with them. you can say, i dislike them for x—y—z z reasons, but you knew what these people stood for. you knew what vision they had for country. this who knows how to see any difference between them at the moment, i mean the moment, right? no. i mean the conservatives don't seem to be particularly at particularly conservative at all. sort all. now you've got labour sort of look like tory of enacting what look like tory policies . you've even policies. you've got even stallman as , well that he stallman saying as, well that he would not entertain a swiss style arrangement the style arrangement with the eu ehhen style arrangement with the eu either. he votes either. well, no, but he votes to out the didn't we? to get out of the eu, didn't we? of we did. so we voted to

of course we did. so we voted to leave the eu. but the problem is, is that like you, these people interchangeable, people are interchangeable, which don't really which means that we don't really have any choice in democracy have any choice in our democracy all are not for all the parties are not for purpose. conservative party purpose. the conservative party on conservative don't on conservative labour don't represent the working classes, the liberal democrats , not the the liberal democrats, not the liberal democratic . so where liberal nor democratic. so where do go? i mean, this is so do we go? i mean, this is so secular so i don't know. i couldn't vote for any these. no, no. any of these parties. no. like any of these parties. so you know, aren't most people are politically the are politically homeless is the problem need problem that we need a proportional representation system which will enable smaller parties to emerge challenge the two party system because at the moment whichever vote moment whichever way you vote we're getting the same sludge. i think you know what it is, i think you know what it is, i think because it is in parties , think because it is in parties, we are politically most of at we are politically most of us at home. mean, it's the first home. and i mean, it's the first time i don't really not time i don't really i'm not really don't waste really believe in don't waste your yeah but but your vote. yeah but you know but i just in what where where i just think in what where where do you go. i think we should be investing individuals rather than is because than what the party is because maybe they might actually maybe then they might actually come some policies maybe then they might actually come none some policies maybe then they might actually come none ofme policies maybe then they might actually come none of them licies maybe then they might actually come none of them would out because none of them would out with with swiss style with policies with swiss style things. was that? i mean,

things. what was that? i mean, seriously, swiss seriously, like it's like swiss style cheese, those holes style cheese, full, those holes and . it's good going and things. it's like good going to nothing good can come out to be nothing good can come out of it. you're just grabbing, literally just grabbing because you you want, you actually know what you want, what for. and i think what you stand for. and i think it's all it's because they're all careerist nothing careerist and there's nothing wrong know aim wrong with that. you know to aim high. that's for great the next high. that's for. great the next generation. but the problem with that saw suella braverman that as we saw suella braverman unfold when she was addressed by her own party about immigration rules is that you don't actually understand what you're getting yourself into. you just want the title. you want the glory of the country. that's an important point, isn't it? politics is meant vocational, it meant to be vocational, and it used be the case that, for used to be the case that, for instance, labour you instance, among the labour you had people who had worked on the mines in past. yeah, they mines in the past. yeah, they were parliament. and now it's were in parliament. and now it's people up at people who have set up at oxford. just get in because oxford. you just get in because they want career. i mean, is they want the career. i mean, is that the problem here? how that the problem here? well, how to choose to work in to make you choose to work in downing was downing street and he was actually was we were actually and i was we were talking in burma this talking about in burma and this was about years ago and he was about 15 years ago and he said did same of people. said i did the same of people. francis right or left. go to

francis right or left. i go to oxford. they tend to do pay and then do a master's, then have an internship they then internship with an mp. they then come in and then they start working in government and then they themselves they slowly work themselves their what their up and essentially what you whole of you is a whole generation of people never in people who've never worked in quote unquote real world and if you've worked in the real you've never worked in the real world then how can you possibly hope people who hope to represent people who were in it? yeah, it's were living in it? yeah, it's difficult. what you think difficult. and what do you think about point about about this point about proportional an option proportional as an option as opposed the past the opposed to in the first past the post well, obviously, post system? well, obviously, neither would favour neither no tories would favour that it will never that system. so it will never get through . but if it did, you get through. but if it did, you know, all of a sudden parties like might actually have like the sdp might actually have some of input. look, some sort of input. well, look, nigel farage is a regular on this channel and there's a lot of people who criticise nigel and and all the and so he's right and all the rest of but me at the rest of it. but to me at the time. ukip under his on the under his leadership provided really valuable service which is they were socially conservative on the right and they held the tories feet to the fire and ensured that the conservative

party actually had conservative policy . okay, we're going to be policy. okay, we're going to be back in a couple of moments in a second .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation . you don't have to be a nation. you don't have to be a qualified to know that tyrannies usually begin with the implementation of censorship whether that's against freedom of assembly, freedom of the press , freedom of speech, press, freedom of speech, tyrants are threatened by free speech because . it is a means by speech because. it is a means by which their corruption is exposed. sometimes they'll impose censorship on the grounds that it's in the interest the public. maybe there's a terrorist threat or a war or subversive ideological elements that are stirring up trouble under such circum stances, governments give themselves what they call emergency powers or .

they call emergency powers or. they restrict certain freedoms on the grounds that such measures are only temporary. sometimes these temporary measures last an awfully long, and this week one of those terrible events that can so often lead to calls for censorship in colorado there was a horrific massacre at gay bar . a horrific massacre at gay bar. five people were killed and many more were . a writer for the new more were. a writer for the new york times claimed that this massacre because conservatives had been voicing their opposition to drag shows for children , according to the children, according to the author, the likes of matt walsh and ron desantis have fostered quote escalate , pitting anti—gay quote escalate, pitting anti—gay and anti trans violence. many others joined in with the predictable chorus . the writer predictable chorus. the writer chris rufo was for the attacks because had exposed evidence to the public of the indoctrination of queer in american schools . of queer in american schools. the twitter account libs of tick tock was blamed for the attack simply for repo sting footage of hypersexual drag shows with

children attendance as though simply letting people that this was going on was somehow than the events themselves over at nbc. one commentator said there is a pipeline. it starts from smaller accounts online like libs of tik tok. it moves to the right wing blogosphere and then it ends up on tucker carlson or ends up in a right wing politicians. it's a dangerous cycle and it does have real world consequences . we've been world consequences. we've been here before . we. whenever here before. we. whenever there's a senseless tragedy of this kind, people understandably try to find a reason why. this kind, people understandably try to find a reason why . and try to find a reason why. and they often end up pointing the finger of blame in the wrong . so finger of blame in the wrong. so when a man started shooting cinema goers in colorado in 2012, during a screening the dark knight rises, many people blamed the films. but he had been watching when . a psychopath been watching when. a psychopath in norway shot 70 people on an island in 2011. commentators in the media were quick to blame some . the public figures that some. the public figures that the killer named in his so—called manifesto in march 20,

1951 muslim worshippers were murdered by. a terrorist in new zealand and all kinds of blame games began. one australian senator said it was due to muslim immigration. a us commentator blamed , fox news. a commentator blamed, fox news. a protester in. new york harangued chelsea clinton and said that the attack had been stoked by people like her. it's almost as though we wanted blame anyone but the culprit . and then came but the culprit. and then came the inevitable of censorship. a chain of bookstores , as in new chain of bookstores, as in new zealand, stopped selling . zealand, stopped selling. peterson's book, 12 rules for life on the supposition it had inspired the killer , which is inspired the killer, which is a conclusion you could only if you hadnt conclusion you could only if you hadn't read it. the new zealand prime minister, jacinda ardern , prime minister, jacinda ardern, enacted heavy handed internet censorship , which even extends censorship, which even extends to online discussions about the shooting . and look at what shooting. and look at what happenedin shooting. and look at what happened in this country after the horrific murder of the mp david amess mp called for a new law to down on internet trolls . law to down on internet trolls. david's law, they call it even though the killing had nothing

to do with online trolls. it was committed by fundamentalist islamic extremist. in other words, a tragedy was being used to justify a policy of censorship that had got nothing do with the murder itself . and do with the murder itself. and the same has happened with this appalling incident at a gay bar in colorado . in the coverage of in colorado. in the coverage of the shooting, the pinknews had made the following claim. the trans community has faced an onslaught of anti lgbtq+ bills . onslaught of anti lgbtq+ bills. america just this year with states banning gender affirming care for minors. and the article goes on to quote sarah kate president and ceo of the gay and lesbian alliance against defamation which says you can draw a straight from the false and vile rhetoric about lgbtq people spread by extremists and amplified across social media to the nearly 300 anti lgbtq bills introduced this year to . the introduced this year to. the dozens of attacks on our community like this one. so you believe as most people do that

gender affirming care is a terrible idea or that gender identity, ideology is damaging for the rights of women and gay people? you are somehow responsible for kind of senseless violence . as tom senseless violence. as tom slater put it in an article spike this week. shut up all people will die is the take home message here . we've already seen message here. we've already seen activists blaming elon musk for allowing previously banned right wing accounts to return to twitter . apparently censorship twitter. apparently censorship is the only way to stop any future atrocities of the kind we saw in colorado. and everyone seems to be blaming their political opponents . how political opponents. how convenient. well, perhaps everyone should have waited a bit before assuming they knew the motives of the attack. it turns out that the murderer identifies as non—binary with they them pronouns . so the they them pronouns. so the theory that this is a straightforwardly transphobic attack may not stack up after all. and some activists have even said, well, they don't believe him. he's just pretending to identify as non—binary. to further demonise lgbt community and. these are

the same people who 5 minutes ago were claiming that was never any risk of criminals. ago were claiming that was never any risk of criminals . gender, any risk of criminals. gender, self—identification for their own ends. oh well . so much for own ends. oh well. so much for that theory . the truth is, we that theory. the truth is, we just don't know why this man committed these evil deeds . it's committed these evil deeds. it's always better to wait . we can be always better to wait. we can be certain of the facts, but so many jumped at the chance many people jumped at the chance to . exploit the killings as to. exploit the killings as a cudgel to beat their opponents . cudgel to beat their opponents. this is grim stuff. cudgel to beat their opponents. this is grim stuff . and of this is grim stuff. and of course, people are free to blame whoever they want. but it's our responsibility to criticise those so point out those who do so to point out that they not just that they are not just analytically wrong but morally wrong. the to blame for the horrific murders in colorado was the man with the not those who have concerns about the ideological indoctrination children or the frequency of drag shows for kids or those who have reservations about gay marriage. these are debates . so marriage. these are debates. so we need to be able to have without dismissing them as incitement to murder. there's even a term it now. you may have heard it stochastic terrorism . heard it stochastic terrorism. this is the idea that views that

are offensive to certain groups necessary really lead to real world violence . so if you argue world violence. so if you argue that it's wrong small children to be taught that there are over 100 genders and then commits a crime against a trans , that's crime against a trans, that's your fault . you're a stochastic your fault. you're a stochastic terrorist . this is a very terrorist. this is a very sinister development. we've had activists claim words of violence for a long time now, but they've moved on. words are now terrorism , and it's a small now terrorism, and it's a small step here to demanding that such words are silenced completely . words are silenced completely. and this is why i mentioned tactic of tyrants who claim that there is an existential threat to society that requires emergency powers to enact censorship. if certain opinions are terroristic , surely they are terroristic, surely they shouldn't be aired . this is a shouldn't be aired. this is a ruse , a way to narrow the ruse, a way to narrow the overton window to prevent discussion and debate about important issues. it's authoritarian trip and it's simply wrong. we've had six decades of research into media

effects, theories and it's provided no secure evidence of a general correlation between pubuc general correlation between public behaviour and mass media consumption and. the direct effects model has comprehensively discredited. so the evidence is in people simply don't act on cue by the words they hear in the media and discussion of sensitive topics is not incitement to violence . is not incitement to violence. for all the claims that conservatives responsible for mass murder . conservatives responsible for mass murder. no mainstream politician of any political stripe was anything than horrified by the attack . horrified by the attack. colorado and it is unfair to pretend otherwise . and the thing pretend otherwise. and the thing is, i do understand why people reach so desperately for these false. we all find incidents unfathomable . emotions are unfathomable. emotions are running really high . and so, of running really high. and so, of course, people will resort to simplistic explanations for these inexplicable things. we can't possibly the mindset of this kind evil. so if we can just point a controversial commentator and say it's his or her fault , we can somehow

her fault, we can somehow resolve it. suddenly it all makes sense. but course, life is messy. far more complicated than that. when murder of john lennon that. when murder of john lennon that he had been inspired by jd. novel the catcher in the j.d. novel the catcher in the rye , should we have taken him rye, should we have taken him seriously ? was salinger really seriously? was salinger really responsible for lennon's death? every copy have been banned. of not. so in all these difficult discussions. we need to be wary. those who think that censorship is the answer or we think their political opponents ought to be asylum . stochastic terrorism asylum. stochastic terrorism isn't a thing. it's like that phrase dog whistle when your opponent hasn't said the thing you wanted them to say , you you wanted them to say, you accuse them of implying it or secretly thinking it. these are just tricks to shut down. debate to foster a climate in which censorship becomes the and that way tyranny lies . okay . way tyranny lies. okay. we've got two more questions from our

audience, but i want to come to my panel first. i was talking that this of stochastic that about this of stochastic terrorism. the idea that people have legitimate concerns, the spread identity, spread of gender identity, ideology, shows ideology, hypersexualized shows they to blame for violence. they are to blame for violence. what do you make of it? it's just completely ridiculous. it reminds a lot, actually, of do you remember the tragic case of jamie which was in the jamie bell, which was in the early nineties where people blamed inverted commas video nasty they that these nasty. and they said that these the reasons why the children committed these horrific an awful murdering jamie bolger. and it wasn't to do with that at all. it was to do the that these children came from horrible homes where they were mistreated, where they saw acts of violence every day. so, like you said in your piece to camera, it's people looking for simple solutions to actually very complex problem. and that's a good example. a really good example. the example bolger and the example of james bolger and the media the film child's media to blame the film child's play media to blame the film child's play say he watched play three they say he watched they watch they did killers watch this film. out hadn't even film. turns out they hadn't even watched it because life is so much more complicated than those simple also too

simple idea. but it was also too complicated authorities. complicated for the authorities. look children that look at the children that that these potentially evil these to potentially evil children had something do with their homes that caused them to be in that position. and i think actually we do look for simple solutions, even like when it's islamic terrorists, you know , islamic terrorists, you know, it's like it's easy to target a whole and say, well obviously, it's the religion that they practise it's mostly mostly practised peacefully. that must cause this right. or it's, you know , the attacks in colorado. know, the attacks in colorado. it has to be i had that i mentioned that with the attacks on the muslim worshippers in christchurch new zealand because you had the australian senators say yeah, there's too many muslims in the country. then you had people i was had other people say, i was there the time . right? i was there at the time. right? i was there at the time. right? i was there when that there at the time when that attack happened christchurch attack happened in christchurch and. awful because and. it was it was awful because everybody guilty and i was everybody felt guilty and i was great because they've got i filled up my shows because they pity filled up my shows because they pity they came . silver linings pity they came. silver linings line, you know, but they did. they just felt, oh, this isn't us. this isn't what we did this

we believe in. but it was blamed on that because it's my situation. this is why some people blamed it on on immigration. but some people stopped jordan peterson stopped blaming jordan peterson and saying that these books need to banned. they were to be banned. and they were banned that's banned momentarily. that's that's . i think it's that's a danger. i think it's a danger banning books. banning anything you're trying anything like if you're trying to remove something, then not giving people the chance to read for themselves and decide , you for themselves and decide, you know, do something with satanic verses, know, something i've verses, you know, something i've studied well. it's studied very, very well. it's just that you've just heard about. just that you've just heard about . give them a chance to about. give them a chance to read it and then to point out, even with j.k. rowling, basically, oh, she's transphobic , but where, you know, it's done a study oh, a whole study of air. oh, inciting transphobic hatred that sheisnt. inciting transphobic hatred that she isn't . yeah. but even if she she isn't. yeah. but even if she were saying transphobic, that wouldn't people coming. wouldn't lead to people coming. no, the other no, no, no. this is the other thing that the what i do thing is that the what i do understand about this is i mentioned media effects theories because studied it for it because we've studied it for it isn't true that public isn't true that the public behave certain way. behave in a certain way. the words hear tv, we just words they hear on tv, we just know not true. why does know it's not true. why does everyone it you saw

everyone buy? because it you saw it during the pandemic where you know, everyone wore a in order to protect other people from from contracting covid when we were told time and time again that those masks the cloth masks, everyone wore had no effect whatsoever . they did not effect whatsoever. they did not stop the spread of the virus yet we all wore it because we love to believe narrative. we know that life is complicated. that's a problem. as and when narratives become more important than data and facts and i mean and we get that all the time and everything now but that's it because life's difficult life's hard for the average person it's a scary world that they live in life changes continual and sometimes it's just easier to hold on to a narrative. it makes you feel better. okay, well, we're going get some more questions now from , our questions now from, our audience. but this time we're going to go to our audience at home because thank you. you've been emails been sending your emails and i really appreciate but really appreciate it. but a question terry. and terry question from terry. and terry says, you planning to says, are you planning to boycott the fashion brand balenciaga? pronouncing balenciaga? am i pronouncing that it's a

that right? i hope so. it's a well—known fashion house. and so are gay man. you just are you a gay man. you just don't know. i have no idea who they. but i do know that they've had this ad campaign where they've had. have you seen this situation? yeah. teddy bears with bondage gear. i saw children. holding children. a child holding a teddy with bondage gear. teddy bear with bondage gear. there photoshoot there was another photoshoot with that if with with documentation that if you in, it was pro you zoomed in, it was pro paedophilia document. now that's not right now. but apparently the fashion house is blaming the photographer and saying they're going to the photographer. the photographer is saying they wouldn't have been able to do this without sanction from the fashion house. but why fashion house. big mess. but why the hell would you think that teddy bears bondage make a teddy bears a bondage make a good i know try to good bedfellows. i know try to work out why i'm thinking where does this comfort so it's usually like some of usually like some sort of inspiration balenciaga he was or he or she is he you know, i think i can't even say the name i've no idea they they were were basically called the master of everyone. so i was thinking, okay, maybe they've taken it

from their slave and then got the bondage of something done . the bondage of something done. but then why the child? i mean, that that's where it gets really sinister. and i just think there's no i'm, i'm for all you know, obviously it's free speech, everything else. but yeah, that's you're yeah, that's what you're deliberately trying to be provocative cannot provocative. you cannot this cannot a mistake . this isn't cannot be a mistake. this isn't like somebody signed this off and what and then didn't understand what what looking free. what they were looking for free. speech but, you speech is one thing. but, you know, sexualization is quite know, the sexualization is quite another, you know, and because you're dealing people who you're dealing with people who can't that's a very can't consent. so that's a very different mean, different situation. mean, francis, is going you francis, what is going on? you know, this look know, we've seen this with look a these drag queen story a lot of these drag queen story are not sexualised but are not sexualised right. but then these videos that then some of these videos that go are clearly go viral are very clearly hypersexualized around young children. is it about children. what is it about a certain contingent of activism that think that imposing very aduu that think that imposing very adult sexual ideas children is somehow progressive ? where's somehow progressive? where's that come from? i have no idea where that comes from. it's deeply worrying because the whole point of well, the whole point that children be sexualised and i don't understand why that suddenly we have to talk that because we all

believe in wasn't it was it was an absolute given i mean what are we going to look forward to in the future mothercare having a kingpin range, you know, we know far ahead away if balenciaga get their way because teddy bears did have i mean it was explicit. yeah, i know. and i agree with you where we're going to go. i mean a fairy tale is going to change stories. you know, it's a typical sexual comedy unlocks the three kinky bears. i don't know. i mean, i don't know to how define it. please okay. we're going to move on now to a question adult on now to a question from adult sea says are , going sea doses says are, you going to buy twitter's stay buy one of twitter's stay t—shirts ? now, by the way, t—shirts? now, by the way, i remember back in 2015, jack dorsey, who was then ceo of twitter and he was the founder of twitter, of course, and he was standing on a stage at a conference, was called the recode and was recode conference, and he was wearing this t—shirt, which had a woke. what a hashtag stay woke. what i didn't time is that didn't know at the time is that he bought jack dorsey. it he had bought jack dorsey. it clearly bought a whole pile them. think we've got them. i think we've got a footage elon musk tweeted footage of elon musk tweeted this can we look this and

this how can we look at this and so at the most things and there's an entire entire full of secret closet of hash tag. well t shirts . so secret closet of hash tag. well t shirts. so quite secret closet of hash tag. well t shirts . so quite unbelievable t shirts. so quite unbelievable so musk found those in a cupboard at twitter . jack dorsey cupboard at twitter. jack dorsey had bought millions of them. i mean i mean you can see what their priorities of course, you can see what their priorities like my youtube channel had a had a twitter account which doing very, very well trigonometry and then it slowed down and. we were like, why is this? and then my twitter slowed down at the same time. and it's only when we went on one of these sites where you could check, they found out that we were shadow banned, but were were shadow banned, but we were also banned facebook. also shadow banned on facebook. no the more no instagram. and then the more you look into it, the more you realise it's just a clear and blade bias by people running blade bias by the people running platforms and their employees . platforms and their employees. people don't know at home what shadow bandit's. people don't know at home what shadow bandit's . so this is shadow bandit's. so this is when. will is when. what will happen is twitter decide that your account

is acceptable for whatever reason and you can tweet away. but other people can't see it. yeah, so you may as well not be tweeting. and this has happened to people know they've to lots of people know they've been banned and then at been shadow banned and then at twitter that shadow twitter did admit that shadow banning thing because banning a thing because they denied long time so denied it for a long time so effectively elon musk has effectively and elon musk has said musk said recently i think elon musk has great thing because has done a great thing because he's now said he's to he's now said he's going to reveal all the information reveal all of the information and secret documents about the extent platform manipulation extent of platform manipulation at past five years. at over the past five years. he's got access to it all. of course, it's to be very interesting. it's going to be interesting. it's going to be interesting and interested interesting and i'm interested about because about the shadow banning because i it just wasn't i just thought it just wasn't very in twitter. always very popular in twitter. always being abandoned no one's being shut abandoned no one's really listening to my because they just keep exactly what it must it must be that i. this must be it must be that i. this is very strange, isn't it? this idea small group of, you idea that, a small group of, you know, 20 something eggheads in, silicon valley, got to decide for the whole world, which was the right opinions , were the the right opinions, were the correct opinions they were banning left, right and centre called samba. but just put up a

list of all the feminists that have been banned for saying like there between there are differences between men yeah i got banned men and women. yeah i got banned for right and musk is now saying we're going to redress this. this stop going to this is going to stop going to bnng this is going to stop going to bring these accounts we're bring these accounts back. we're going able to have going to be able to have conversations been to conversations we have been to have this could have before. i think this could potentially huge impact potentially have a huge impact on well, i as on the discourse. well, i so as well. but i've always been also been very interesting is the reaction from celebrities and people who espouse that world view they're going nuts and view. oh, they're going nuts and they're absolutely to they're going absolutely to censor like it censor anymore. they like it yeah. and it's not that they disagree with it's the fact disagree with them it's the fact that able to speak that that they're able to speak that is enraging know whoopi is utterly enraging know whoopi goldberg bless her and you goldberg god bless her and you know what one of the most foremost opinions and sages in world has actually come off because she said i can't handle it isn't it incredible and i love what i think she's absolutely brilliant but that's absolutely brilliant but that's a really silly thing do because the idea that it doesn't she i just think she's part of a show you did the view you so you should be welcome you want to

hear the view yeah this is what i don't understand what people are it. i'm are saying i don't get it. i'm sorry if i missed a memo why is everyone leaving twitter what is it going achieve? i don't it going to achieve? i don't understand. well, what's going to leaving twitter to happen by you leaving twitter surely that the scary voices that hoping come on that you're hoping don't come on by leaving just keep yeah by you leaving just keep yeah yeah and i do think it's scary they like you said, just a handful of people have decided what our opinion should be, what we think. and i think that's where now. so where we are now. we're so divisive and someone someone has got accountable for what's got to be accountable for what's been happening the last few years social media has been years and social media has been a that, especially a big part of that, especially twitter. going really twitter. it's going to be really interesting because elon interesting as well because elon is saying he's going to is also now saying he's going to reveal what happened with the hunter story. if you hunter laptop story. if you remember, the remember, what happened was the new wrote article , new york post wrote an article, hunter biden's which has hunter biden's laptop, which has a very dodgy materials on it, connect him all sorts of connect him to all sorts of stuff . and the twitter decided stuff. and the twitter decided it was misinformation and prevented even prevented users from even sharing the article down sharing the article lock down the york post account. and the new york post account. and this in the up to the this was in the run up to the election, comes very close election, which comes very close to election interference. he's

going to reveal release this going to reveal and release this really information what really information about what conversations on. you conversations that went on. you know, they were effectively censoring he's turned censoring address. he's turned twitter into an episode of eastenders. yeah yeah. it's very sweet this way to get in to see what the next revelation is. contact my wife and i love him whenever he. but i've got, you know, notifications. it's just brilliant anyway because people get crazy, they're upset. get crazy, they're so upset. anyway, after the i'm free speech with speech nation on a woman with down's lost court down's syndrome has lost court of challenge over late of appeal challenge over late stage abortions of foetuses with certain health conditions. journalist author ella journalist and author ella whelan will be here discuss whelan will be here to discuss the significance the case. the significance of the case. see a moment .

okay . welcome back to free okay. welcome back to free speech. a woman with down's syndrome has lost a court of appeal challenge over late state abortions for with certain medical conditions. heidi kraut, who brought the case alongside

morally wilson, whose also has down syndrome arguing the law stigmatises people and this discriminates the current law allows for pregnancy terminations up to birth for foetuses with down's syndrome and other medical conditions, the judges said . the act did not the judges said. the act did not interfere with the rights of the living and the case prompts an question should the rights of one group affect a woman's right to an abortion? i'm joined in the studio by journalist and author elena . so anna, this is author elena. so anna, this is obviously very sensitive area. would you like to talk us through what has happened with this case and how came about? yes. so heidi croucher and, the group that she works as well as molly wilson, previous , brought molly wilson, previous, brought a case to trial . essentially a case to trial. essentially what they want to do is highlight the fact that as they see it, the current abortion discriminatory because women can access abortion up to 24 weeks under certain circumstance cis people will forget those under

certain circumstance . you certain circumstance. you essentially have to prove that your life is at risk or that you're going go to have an you're going go mad to have an abortion and have two abortion and you have to two doctors. but anyway, you can do that for up to 24 weeks. but if your pregnancy involves of down's syndrome , then you can down's syndrome, then you can you . there is the possibility you. there is the possibility for you to make that to have an abortion later later on. and you know lots of women who don't get the proper testing done can find out later on that that's the case with their pregnancy. indeed, change their mind . and indeed, change their mind. and as crouser and the people bringing the case with her see it this is not just something that upsets them , but it's that upsets them, but it's something that is to their human rights . we were talking about rights. we were talking about the language of human rights here , as i see it, as someone here, as i see it, as someone who thinks that women's freedom is , a kind of an indivisible is, a kind of an indivisible freedom . this is, quite frankly freedom. this is, quite frankly , one of the most pernicious attacks on women's rights and reproductive freedom . it's using reproductive freedom. it's using and weaponizing the language of

rights to try and suppress women's bodily autonomy, because crouser was success . well, in crouser was success. well, in her case, thankfully, she hasn't been. what would happen is that women would be restricted from making that to have an abortion in cases of diagnosed this of down syndrome that you know interfering in a woman's life in a way that i think is kind of a sympathy for that kind of view, is but completely lacking . is but completely lacking. suppose craft his point though is that you know the unborn child foetus if has down child foetus if it has down syndrome is treated differently from the child doesn't and that implies a kind of a lower class status for down syndrome individual than someone who doesn't have that condition. well, there's two things to say on that. number one, you know, if you do get a diagnosis like that i don't think anyone can know how going to react and how they're until they're in they're to feel until they're in that situation . john that situation. john and i person would never be able to judge a woman who was that situation on whatever decisions would make. know, having a would make. you know, having a

child down's syndrome a child with down's syndrome is a j'oy - child with down's syndrome is a joy . it can also be a great joy. it can also be a great challenge . and i think that has challenge. and i think that has to be taken into. but the second more important point if it is more important point is if it is case these campaigners case that these campaigners believe discrepancy, believe there is a discrepancy, will have the answer for them? will i have the answer for them? it's decriminalise abortion it's to decriminalise abortion completely to mean that there are and no are no restrictions and no discrepancies between what and isn't allowed for a woman to make a decision and to just say that actually all decisions are worthy in a woman's woman's kind of aspect of looking at the future , her life, whether that future, her life, whether that be maybe it's because she and her partner broken up. maybe it's because been a diagnosis. maybe it's because something drastically changed in her life means that she can't continue this pregnancy once we get in. i think that is a sort of i don't agree with krauss's campaign, but there is a point to be made that we get into saying that there are good and bad reasons for having an abortion, you're interfering the very private moment of woman's life in moment of a woman's life in a that i don't think the law should of her case. should isn't part of her case. the about late stage

the concern about late stage abortions actually abortions that actually you're talking aborting a i by talking abort is aborting a i by this point a sort of fully formed individual that worry you at all when it becomes so late stage that there's very little distinction. the the distinction. the baby in the womb and out of the womb well. i think we to be very careful think we have to be very careful about the language we use because, you know, talking the idea fully formed idea of a fully formed individual, make individual, i mean, we do make a distinction between a pregnancy which know, a foetus which is, you know, a foetus attached you if attached which, you know, if you're if having a wanted pregnancy is baby from the get go i've just had a baby and you know when i was four weeks pregnant i was thinking about what it would like as a fully what it would be like as a fully formed individual. until formed individual. but until somebody society, somebody is a member society, you the court used the you know, as the court used the term human , then we term a living human, then we make a distinction between that and which is . so and a pregnancy, which is. so your distinction is birth is. yeah, which pregnancy is yeah, which is pregnancy is still intrinsically part of a woman's body and. therefore the woman's body and. therefore the woman's rights and desires and freedoms come first. but just this on the issue of late term abortions, there's a callousness to, all of this, which as you

know, heidi, crowds are talked about. know, heidi, crowds are talked about . the fact that the court about. the fact that the court doesn't take into account her feelings and has upset her. and that's i'm sure that's absolutely true . really feel absolutely true. i really feel for wish would convince for her. i wish would convince her that women who are making the decision to have an abortion on the basis of a down's syndrome diagnosis don't devalue her at all and want her to and would love support her to have the best life possible. and i wish someone would explain that to very it's to her because. it's very it's heartbreaking seeing her go through pain through so much pain and suffering the basis this when suffering the basis of this when she have to late she doesn't have to but on late term abortions it one they're so rare and to what a woman has to go through to a late term abortion is i can't explain how awful it must be. i mean, i think you only really realise it when you've been heavily pregnant yourself. what entails? i won't go into what it entails , but you can imagine making decision. women don't do it lightly and i just would like people to try and get into the frame of mind of someone who is having to make that decision.

they're not it because it's a tuesday and they fancy it, although i think that they, you know, that they should be know, in law that they should be allowed that allowed women aren't that callous they're not that they're not of flippant. not that sort of flippant. i think that we devalue import think that we devalue the import sense kind of women's agency and the decisions that they make and why they make them particularly at that the very few women who make them at that late stage. but again, i mean, from what you describe very clear that a lot of invested all of emotions are invested on all sides this. and actually, sides of this. and actually, when comes to these sensitive when it comes to these sensitive topics, a step topics, isn't it quite a step forward try and bring forward to try and bring emotions out of it and talk about the be able to have these discussions, particularly when it of rights or it comes to clashes of rights or at perceived of rights? at least perceived of rights? yeah, know, yeah, absolutely and, you know, that's one thing, the that's one of the thing, the things abortion is that things about abortion is that it's a very personal it's obviously a very personal thing we're talking thing because we're talking about women's personal, private decisions. i think it decisions. that's i think it shouldn't be anything do with any of legal framework it any kind of legal framework it should be regulated on the should just be regulated on the bafis should just be regulated on the basis of normal medical procedures, you know, safe and all the of it in the same way that heart surgery regulated that heart surgery is regulated

or whatever . but because there or whatever. but because there is this , of course, it is still is this, of course, it is still a moral, political conundrum because still mean, because we are still i mean, abortion technically illegal abortion is technically illegal in everybody that in this country. everybody that we this workaround is we just have this workaround is the 1967 act that says that , you the 1967 act that says that, you know, on this basis, a doctor, can be protected from being prosecuted. we don't have women's bodily it's not a legal right in this country but the to take all the emotion out of it you have to understand those emotions are sole property of the woman and that actually and this is the point i made on twitter this has upset lots people and heidi krauss's campaign other people's emotions and are irrelevant. the judges ruled that though they understood why croucher and others who were part of her campaign felt upset that this was actually it was it wasn't relevant to a woman's decision to have an abortion . why would to have an abortion. why would you lay the kind of the magnitude of question of disability rights on at the feet

of an individual woman going into a clinic to have a procedure not only inhumane , procedure not only inhumane, it's also not legally sound . so it's also not legally sound. so i think that, you know , we have i think that, you know, we have to be clear that, though , is to be clear that, though, is framed in terms of disability. it's also there's an element of kind of identity politics here and competing rights . what this and competing rights. what this really is an attack on women's bodily autonomy and lots of these as it happens , even though these as it happens, even though they talk about being against late term abortions , also late term abortions, also campaigning tests that women can have earlier. i mean, medical sciences and innovation has meant that are now readily available much earlier in a woman's pregnancy to able to get these kind of diagnoses. so if you're upset about late term abortions. why not allow those kind of tests early on? but of course , they're not in favour of course, they're not in favour of that. course, they're not in favour of that . so, however, when you that. so, however, when you look, hamstrung and look, women are hamstrung and i think actually this ruling, think that actually this ruling, though , might seem cruel to some though, might seem cruel to some people important for people is, very important for women's and we women's freedom. and i think we need to actually push further need to actually push it further and these and that these kind of anti—choice attacks women's

anti—choice attacks on women's bodily autonomy, on abortion can't be allowed to take the shape of sort of identity politics, the language of rights, because in its kind of naked form , it's an attempt to naked form, it's an attempt to try and suppress women's freedom. and we should push back on and way in. thanks on that and the way in. thanks very for joining on that and the way in. thanks very forjoining me today. very much for joining me today. and the break i'm free speech nafion and the break i'm free speech nation kelly cain will be here to tell about how she is potentially being with arrest after being reported for a hate crime. see in 3 minutes.

welcome back to . free face welcome back to. free face nation. katty chene has been threatened with arrest reported for a hate crime after attending a women's rights rally in brighton. the founder standing for women spoke the gender critical event in brighton in, september. we're going to speak to katy in a moment. but first,

let's hear what police told her. i tell you, if someone has actually an allegation against you about a hate crime, we to get you to come down brighton ideally so we can have this voluntary interview. and when you say hate crimes specific , you say hate crimes specific, what hate crime would it be ? what hate crime would it be? because i think to be a hate that has to actually be a crime . so what is the hate? what is the hate attached to ? and the the hate attached to? and the crime is use of words or behaviour to stir up hatred on the grounds of sexual . and kenny the grounds of sexual. and kenny j. cain also of the let women speak to joins me now. welcome to the show . kelly drake , can i to the show. kelly drake, can i ask you i did due diligence. i watched your speech brighton on youtube. i couldn't see any instances of you inciting against people on the grounds of sexual . am i wrong about that? sexual. am i wrong about that? havei sexual. am i wrong about that? have i missed something? no, you haven't missed anything. it's

this is my fifth interaction with the police the last few years since i started talking about the assault on women's. years since i started talking about the assault on women's . so about the assault on women's. so now you haven't missed a thing . now you haven't missed a thing. i frequently champion lgbtqi and talk the assault. that's also upon their rights presented by transgender ideology . so if transgender ideology. so if anything i'm i'm definitely lots of love towards sexuality information so why is it the case and do we know who it was that that reported you? is this just one of the activists who was nearby being opportunistic and using these kind of hate speech laws in order to quash their opponents . i speech laws in order to quash their opponents. i think it is think it's i think it's very entitled using the police force as some sort personal security force in order to shut women up . and it's just not to work. are there updates on this? because there updates on this? because the police contacted and said, well, you've got to come for interview, but they said it was voluntary, didn't. but then if you didn't, they would arrest

you. am i reading that right? is what happened? no. mean this what happened? no. i mean this is said. when? four is what they said. when? four years susie green years ago. when susie green support had reported to the police. and so they said that, no, it's voluntary but by the way, if you don't come in, you'll be put a wanted list and we'll find an excuse arrest you. but i'm i'm not going. i'm absolutely 100% not voluntarily going to any police station to be interviewed and, tried to be entrapped into some sort of spear is hate crime . i must get spear is hate crime. i must get very wearing, though to continually have the police come in, say, you're not entitled to your free speech. it feels a little bit like the police don't necessarily know the law themselves . well, i agree. themselves. well, i agree. i think on the backdrop of the fact that we all know there have been women that have been stalked and they report they're repeatedly to the police and the police ignored them. and then women end up dead. i think the fact that as soon as a man who believes he's a woman and gets

very cross about women that say they're not reports women's speech to the police and the police jump . i think it's i just police jump. i think it's i just think it illustrates where police are in 2022. i now could you talk to us a little bit about your women speak because i understand that you went to america as well, which some people would say could be quite dangerous, because some of some of activists out there can of the activists out there can be extreme . but is it be very extreme. but what is it that you're to achieve that you're trying to achieve with tour? what's the with the tour? what's the purpose it? it really is purpose behind it? it really is to create a space in which women can speak. women often fail. completely stifle failed and intimidated in silence . right intimidated in silence. right across america. you can your job. we had women speaking been working somewhere for 17 years, spoke against the transition of children and lose their jobs. we children and lose theirjobs. we fought parents of children who have been convinced by schools or online communities they're trans who are having their breasts removed. it's sort of

13, 14 years old. these girls , 13, 14 years old. these girls, boys being castrated . they're boys being castrated. they're even 21. you know , it's even 21. you know, it's absolutely terrifying. and preposterous. what's happening. so we just wanted to open an accessible space for women to come and speak. accessible space for women to come and speak . and what we did come and speak. and what we did is we i made a documentary when i was out there that should be out before christmas . and what out before christmas. and what it did is it is it revealed the vile ends and misogyny that the trans activists are absolutely drowning in. but, you know, women are a constituency of our own. we a worldwide global community with uniqueness needs. and we will about our rights . and we will about our rights. why is it that so much when it comes to this debate and when you hear these activists sort of gathering feminist speakers, why does so much of the language, the rhetoric , why do they resort the rhetoric, why do they resort to violent imagery , death to violent imagery, death threats, rape threats? why that

so prevalent ? mm, i think it's so prevalent? mm, i think it's because they're violent men hate women. i don't know. it's not it's not a difficult calculation really . men have done this for really. men have done this for time. and i'm a big fan of men. i'm a heterosexual woman. i've got three sons. i've got lovely husband. i'm a big fan men. and ihave husband. i'm a big fan men. and i have no idea that the world was quite so misogynist. but as soon as women start , no, that's soon as women start, no, that's the men that get very, very cross about it. and we use any means necessary to shut up. are you ever afraid to put yourself in this position because you're always speaking in public? surrounded by these people in black masks ? you know, they look black masks? you know, they look intimidating from perspective. i'm just watching it on screen i'm just watching it on a screen . i was too. i was very frightened in new york. i got i had credible death threats in portland . so we didn't do the portland. so we didn't do the tourin portland. so we didn't do the tour in portland. we had to cancel that day in new york, where there was six new york police officers. they said they

wouldn't at all protect me to. go into the rally that i'd organised to speak today at hyde park was assaulted by who decided to just fill my face full of water . could have been full of water. could have been anything in that bottle. so am i afraid i'm still more afraid to keep quiet . afraid i'm still more afraid to keep quiet. i'm afraid i'm still more afraid to keep quiet . i'm still more keep quiet. i'm still more afraid about this assault harm and the harm to individual to shut up rather than speak up. so you know, until this until there are no more children being transitioned until no more language of women is being raised or animal rights. language of women is being raised or animal rights . then raised or animal rights. then i continue to be fearful of being silent . can i can you thank are silent. can i can you thank are very much for joining silent. can i can you thank are very much forjoining me silent. can i can you thank are very much for joining me today and after the break i'm free speech nation jake rolling is cleared of transphobia because she's never said anything transphobic. and matt hancock cracks joke and it's almost time a social sensation so i'll see you then then .

welcome back to free speech nafion welcome back to free speech nation with me. andrew doyle . so nation with me. andrew doyle. so every week we dedicate this part of the show to the wild world of social media and the stories which have captured attention. so this week there was a tweet showing support for potter author this went authorj.k. rowling. this went absolutely this was absolutely viral. this was columnist, journalist and twitter rosetta . she was twitter user rosetta. she was us. she's been three months reading and researching the author's books, essays and tweets. couldn't find anything transphobic. so this is what she said. she said right, i'm done. three months ago, i was tasked with writing an article detailing transphobic j.k. quotes we're done with human earth commissioned that. goodness me , after 12 weeks of goodness me, after 12 weeks of reading her books, tweets, full essay , and finding the content essay, and finding the content of these quotes, i found not a single truly transphobic message. now this is look, this

is the point is that we all know anyone who's done basic research knows that j.k. rowling has never said anything transphobe back quite opposite . back ever quite the opposite. the that a publication the fact that a publication would commission something what confirmation bias with the title transphobic thing they've only decided that it must be. isn't it incredible that someone actually thought one minute they're not there . so i'm going they're not there. so i'm going to change and i'm going to change my mind and i'm going to change my mind and i'm going to at great personal to announce at great personal risk well, that risk i'm slowly and well, that shows with the whole j.k. rowling thing, that you rowling thing, if that you repeat often enough repeat something often enough becomes a truth. yeah. and people now take it to be that. j.k. rowling is transphobic . and j.k. rowling is transphobic. and so she hates trans people you go okay. what's your evidence for that? and then they look at you and go, you're transphobic . and go, you're transphobic. yeah. even asking question. yes, but for evidence . i mean, but asking for evidence. i mean, it very infuriating . you're it gets very infuriating. you're deaung it gets very infuriating. you're dealing with fantasists, i have it gets very infuriating. you're de sayg with fantasists, i have it gets very infuriating. you're de say , with fantasists, i have it gets very infuriating. you're de say , most fantasists, i have it gets very infuriating. you're de say , mostfanthests, i have it gets very infuriating. you're de say , most fanthe arguments to say, most of the arguments i have this kind of thing have about this kind of thing onune have about this kind of thing online with who are online are with people who are attacking spectres of attacking imaginary spectres of their imagination i their imagination playing out. i know. unfair because know. and then unfair because you know, as you know i've been shut of that shadow world

shut out of that shadow world chat and about you chat about and chat about you know still on follow know and i still on follow me because and a tweet because life and like a tweet that support that she's not transphobic like you transphobic and it's like you know association and you must know by association and you must be and this this this is be and this this this this is kind of constantly happening you know like if don't believe know like if you don't believe that that's not the truth that but that's not the truth we've you still want we've got now and you still want to believe what you want to believe we can't help you. believe then we can't help you. but this good of that but isn't this good of that journalist probably had preconceptions her was journalist probably had pre set:eptions her was journalist probably had pre set to ytions her was journalist probably had pre set to write her was journalist probably had pre set to write this her was journalist probably had pre set to write this article was all set to write this article saying oh yeah, i'm going to quote horrible and they quote all the horrible and they just weren't just and they just weren't there. to her because there. but kudos to her because i think lot of journalists would just things just misrepresent things up. lie, , because she's a lie, lie, because she's had a lot of now for saying i lot of abuse. now for saying i couldn't find any. but then the people people will still be out there saying it's made up, she's in the game or she's, you in on the game or she's, you know, it's crap because know, it's all it's crap because they don't want to believe the facts will believe the facts they will not believe the facts they will not believe the fact know the truth. fact that people know the truth. let's just restore primacy of the truth, i think is really, really right now . matt really important right now. matt hancock later tonight , hancock so later tonight, apparently i don't watch the show, apparently going apparently i don't watch the

sh be apparently going apparently i don't watch the sh be learningarently going apparently i don't watch the sh be learning if�*ntly going apparently i don't watch the sh be learning if matt going apparently i don't watch the sh be learning if matt hancock1g to be learning if matt hancock will of the i'm will be king of the i'm a celebrity jungle. so the internet, of course, has been enjoying some of the former health secretary's surprisingly entertaining moments. a tik tok video featuring. serving mp video featuring. the serving mp and owen proved and hollyoaks owen warner proved popular. let's have a look at this . there should be another this. there should be another word for someone else's left and right . yeah, your left . there right. yeah, your left. there should be another word for that. someone else is left and right. yeah your left, jen is quite funny. matt hancock . i don't funny. matt hancock. i don't know the problem . matt hancock know the problem. matt hancock is his stint as health minister dunng is his stint as health minister during pandemic, which we can all agree wasn't particularly successful. so the fact that he's been turned into this kind of fun figure on have it i'm a celebrity it makes me a little bit queasy. do you watch i'm a celebrity see, i haven't at all until last night and watch two episodes back to back because my friend who's dying over yeah she watched. i watched it and watched. so i watched it and it's interesting because it's really interesting because is robot like know i'll

is like a robot like know i'll back next i think a swastika and he just as he's going through the you know the waters just you and me just walking like a casual walk and he's got no emotions. he's really almost like he's learning all like he's learning from all these mates. well, it has these jungle mates. well, it has to to be human . it's to be human to be human. it's really oh dear god, really strange. oh dear god, it's still not a programme. i'm going to watch, i'll be honest. but to this but anyway, we're going to this final the show now, final part of the show now, which we, through your which is where we, through your unfiltered dilemmas, you've been very in all your very kindly emailing in all your very kindly emailing in all your very problems. first very serious problems. our first dilemma lianne in dilemma is from lianne in falmouth. says got yousay falmouth. lianne says got yousay in my works world cup sweepstake . i can't bring myself to support because i can't stand trump and i can't stand disney world. i'm even that keen on football . do you think it's bad football. do you think it's bad if i just don't pay fiver? is it weird that you would the usa team trump necessarily or disney? now there's more to america than that isn't there absolutely there's schwarzenegger yeah he's austrian yeah exactly but an american citizen but yeah i just

know support america everybody america now be transgressive be punk say go america , go you. punk say go america, go you. what do you think? yeah, i think it's just extreme. but also in the sweepstake, i would advise that if you can try and swap your team with someone because that's who want to that's other people who want to win america i've win will get the america i've got sweepstake and i've got got a sweepstake and i've got a portugal uruguay. they portugal and uruguay. are they good.i portugal and uruguay. are they good. i think so i. guess i know nothing about football and i might. audience is smaller might. my audience is smaller tonight because. and germany are playing. yes, i they might be good. yes. but former world champion. interesting. okay you don't like fashion. don't you don't like fashion. you like football. what do you don't like football. what do you it. okay, you like backgammon. it. okay, i'll second dilemma now it's from callum. callum i work in i.t. support i noticed a colleague had been someone about behind my back . so to get behind my back. so to get revenge, i added pornhub to their internet history . and now their internet history. and now they're facing a disciplinary should i come clean ? obviously, should i come clean? obviously, you should . that's outrageous. you should. that's outrageous. i mean, they presumably they could lose their job. you're not meant to be looking at and not unless

you're in it. has the part of. i think they're out there. yeah but positively encouraged. but he's positively encouraged. yeah, but isn't that that's not fair it. because although the fair is it. because although the revenge been revenge might have been justified way yeah, justified in a way yeah, it's gone far hasn't it. it has gone too far hasn't it. it has gone too far hasn't it. it has gone too far . it's gone too far hasn't it. it has gone too far. it's something for instance , like gay. and then you instance, like gay. and then you say , actually i'm part of say, actually i'm part of a marginalised group and i think that would be the way do it. that would the way to do it. that would be the way to do it. actually, doing is actually, what you're doing is you're of my you're me because of my orientation . i mean, they have orientation. i mean, they have to complain they don't want to complain that they don't want to complain that they don't want to knew that someone to know how he knew that someone behind his back was emailing. he must been low with their must have been low with their back see what they were back then to see what they were making. must have been making. he must have been snooping you're snooping. exactly. you're a snoopen snooping. exactly. you're a snooper. you're a snoop. we have no sympathy for you, evil. anyway, you much for anyway, thank you so much for joining free speech joining us with free speech nafion joining us with free speech nation was the when nation tonight was the week when a threatened for a feminist was threatened for arrest her mind. arrest for speaking her mind. the cambridge dean claimed that jesus trans and american jesus was trans and american fashion company thought bondage and bears went and teddy bears went hand—in—hand . thank you, of hand—in—hand. thank you, of course. to lovely panel, course. to my lovely panel, sergey takahashi francis sergey takahashi and francis foster, my guests sergey takahashi and francis fost evening. my guests sergey takahashi and francis fost evening. and my guests sergey takahashi and francis fost evening. and by guests sergey takahashi and francis fost evening. and by thezsts sergey takahashi and francis fost evening. and by the way, if

this evening. and by the way, if you join us live in the you want to join us live in the studio, part of wonderful studio, be part of wonderful audience. about the audience. forget about the football just go wwe sro football just go to wwe sro audiences dot that's right there on as i speak. stay on the screen as i speak. stay tuned for that is next and do not that headliners is on every night at 11:00 and that's where comedians go through tomorrow's top stories. thank you so much for watching free speech nation. i see you next. farewell . i will see you next. farewell. looking ahead to tomorrow's . and looking ahead to tomorrow's. and the uk is looking and brighter than the weekend but still with some showers around . let's take some showers around. let's take a look at the details . scotland a look at the details. scotland will start the day on a chilly note with a scattering of showers around . but in between showers around. but in between the showers, there'll be sunshine. winds be lighter sunshine. winds will be lighter than of late skies across . than of late skies across. northern ireland will be rather cloudy first thing monday. however, most be dry with only one or two showers around. that could also be some showers around parts of cumbria and northumberland. but elsewhere

should be dry, although they could be some fog patches in yorkshire wales will start the new working week on quite a showery note . some of the showery note. some of the showers heavy in places, best of the sunniest will be across the east of . the country the east of. the country the midlands will also see some good spells of sunshine , although spells of sunshine, although there could be some mist and fog patches around the fog could be slow to clear in places especially in the east towards lincolnshire. the patchy fog could also be fairly stubborn across parts of east anglia, but away the fog it'll be a dry and sunny start to monday. southern england however will see a scattering of showers moving eastwards throughout morning, especially along english channel coasts away from the showers though it should be a bright start heading towards lunchtime and many northern areas should see the showers gradually , see the showers gradually, although showers will continue across wales and, southern england and that is how the weather shaping up during tomorrow morning .

good evening at 6:00. i'm tamzin roberts in the gb newsroom, the met police say the murders of two teenagers in south—east london are linked. the 16 year old boy's counselling becky and charlie put out both stabbed to death yesterday afternoon around a mile apart in greenwich . a mile apart in greenwich. police were granted additional search powers to determine whether the murders were related . holding a press conference the met's east deputy commander has appealed for information on saturday evening. that's around 5:10 police were called to report of two people injured in two locations. the locations are approx approximately one mile

apart . emergency