well, hello there. it's 6:00. i'm michelle dewberry and this is dewbs & co the show where is dewbs& co the show where we'll get into the things that have got you talking and yes i know the football is on seven but we have an hour to go and we are going to fill it with lots of feisty debate . i want your of feisty debate. i want your thoughts on the following get this this country is no longer dominated by christians less

than 50% of us identify as such. should we be concerned that. does that matter to you .7 how does that matter to you.7 how important is does that matter to you? how important is religion in day and age? tell me your thoughts on that and the so—called red wall. let's face it, a lot of tories are probably to lose their jobs and then know it. so many are saying that they're going to form a breakaway party to try and keep your vote . do you think and keep your vote. do you think it'll work or not? and it's not very often i say this, but tonight i am on the fence. why? well, this kind of online safety bill. have you noticed the sentence that legal but harmful . it's all kind of dividing opinion . it who should decide opinion. it who should decide what you can can't say. well, i don't want telling me as a grown aduh don't want telling me as a grown adult what i say, quite frankly, especially if it's legal and i don't need protecting from offence. but what about the children being a mum myself. i don't want to. i don't want my child say anything that's gonna harm or or confuse them . hence harm or or confuse them. hence i'm sitting on the fence . where i'm sitting on the fence. where are you? i want your thoughts.

all of that. but first, let's bnng all of that. but first, let's bring ourselves up to speed with tonight's latest headline headune. tonight's latest headline headline . thank you, michelle. headline. thank you, michelle. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. a man has been arrested in gloucestershire in connection with the of at least 27 people who drowned in the channelin 27 people who drowned in the channel in a dinghy last year. 32 year old harambe ahmed abu bakris 32 year old harambe ahmed abu bakr is accused of being a member of a gang behind the crossing . two people survived, crossing. two people survived, forced missing. he's due to appear at westminster's magistrates court . appear at westminster's magistrates court. but an era a lab which saw thousands of positive covid cases reported as could have led to deaths of 20 people. investigators at the uk health security agency say the mistake at the wolverhampton lab meant nearly 40,000 pcr tests were wrongly between september and october last year. research

has also estimated almost hundred additional hospital admissions says that may not otherwise have occurred. bosses at the uk hate as they say they , fully accept the findings and recommend nations made in the report . just a poll protester report. just a poll protester has been for six months after causing miles tailbacks on the m25 . 57 year old john goody from m25. 57 year old john goody from brighton up a gantry junction earlier this month forcing sections of the motorway to close during the morning rush hour. close during the morning rush hour . he close during the morning rush hour. he pleaded guilty at westminster court to causing a pubuc westminster court to causing a public during sentencing . the public during sentencing. the judge told goody his protest went beyond what is legitimate and acceptable . ukraine's lady and acceptable. ukraine's lady has told the opening of a russian war crimes exhibition in london. the exhibit document is atrocities committed by russians soldiers across ukraine. earlier elena zelenskyy spoke employees

in westminster and the ongoing torture and violence. president zelenskyy wife also likened russia's to the second world war. ukrainians now going through the terror which will resonate with you , your island resonate with you, your island survived the air raids which were identical to that russia uses. were identical to that russia uses . now to were identical to that russia uses. now to put us on our knees . we're hearing siren ads every .we're hearing siren ads every day identical to those which were heard by the british generations you did not surrender and we will not surrender and we will not surrender . but victory surrender and we will not surrender. but victory is surrender and we will not surrender . but victory is not surrender. but victory is not the only thing we need. we need justice. china's ambassador order to the uk has been summoned . the foreign office summoned. the foreign office over a diplomatic row following the arrest and alleged beating of a british journalist who was covering covid protests . a heavy covering covid protests. a heavy police presence been reported in several cities , china, to deter

several cities, china, to deter further protests after unrest over the weekend. answering an urgent question on the matter , urgent question on the matter, foreign office minister david riley says the uk government will continue to protect british. more broadly recognise that china possesses challenge to values and interests as highlighted again by the prime minister yesterday. a challenge that grows more acute as it moves towards greater authoritarianism . and that's why authoritarianism. and that's why we're taking robust to protect our interests, to stand up for our interests, to stand up for our values. that includes imposing sanctions leading action at the un and strengthening our supply chain resilience . let me assure resilience. let me assure members that as part of our frank relationship with china will continue to raise our human concerns at the highest levels . concerns at the highest levels. a section of the new online safety bill has removed following criticism by some conservatives that . it posed conservatives that. it posed a risk to free speech. the amendment means big tech , like amendment means big tech, like social media sites will no longer be required to remove

harmful material if it's deemed to be legal . harmful material if it's deemed to be legal. the harmful material if it's deemed to be legal . the online safety to be legal. the online safety bill due to return to parliament next after being repeatedly delayed . up to 100,000 nursing delayed. up to 100,000 nursing staff will walk out month in the industry's ever strike. the royal college of nursing says staff in england, wales and northern will take industrial action on the 15th and 20th of december. they are calling for a pay december. they are calling for a pay rise of 5% above the rate of inflation while the rcn says they'll take further action if they'll take further action if the government does not negotiate over pay . the foreign negotiate over pay. the foreign secretary is accusing russia's putin of trying to freeze the ukrainians into submission . ukrainians into submission. speaking at a meeting of nato foreign ministers in bucharest, james cleverly said russia's war with to fail due to the resilience of the ukrainian people . ministers at the talks people. ministers at the talks are looking for ways to support kiev's military and keep civilians safe, despite constant blackouts and heating shortages

or , the king says , he wants or, the king says, he wants a good game of football tonight as england and wales go head to headin england and wales go head to head in the final match of group b in, the world cup to get through the knockouts, wales must england and hope the usa with iran. meanwhile southgate's side are looking to bounce from their draw with the us and qualify top of group b. kick in just under an hour's time. tv onune just under an hour's time. tv online and derby plus radio . online and derby plus radio. this is gb news. now it's back to dewbs& co . to dewbs& co. for that. tatiana while i'm with you right through until the football, basically, right till 7:00 tonight, will you be watching ? obviously the you be watching? obviously the answer to that should be no, because i'm going to watch nigel farage instead. but i was telling you on tonight's if you dance habib keeping me

dance ben habib keeping me company in the studio tonight , company in the studio tonight, the businessman and former brexit party mep alongside him, peter edwards , the former editor peter edwards, the former editor of list. by the way, of labour list. by the way, i shouldn't i shouldn't grass on the you what's said in the break but ben habib is just ask me what time kick off this kick is on tonight's game goodness me. i want your thoughts on all of this tonight. i want to talk to about christianity. less than 50% of those associate ourselves or describe ourselves should i say as being christian . is that say as being christian. is that a problem? yes. no tell me. and also i want to talk to you about this whole online safety bill the legal but harmful clause been removed? should we be concerned about . and what about concerned about. and what about this whole notion of making a brand new party to represent the red wall ? you reckon that's red wall? you reckon that's going to be something that would get your vote if are indeed get your vote if you are indeed in those red wall seats in one of those red wall seats or it all waste of or is it just all a waste of time, frankly, because time, quite frankly, because most much most of them don't achieve much anyway i your thoughts on anyway. i want your thoughts on that. gbnews.uk is the that. gp views gbnews.uk is the email or you can tweet me at. i

was by the way , i have a little was by the way, i have a little rant tonight about did anyone watch 24 hours in place custody last night . i watch 24 hours in place custody last night. i did. i don't normally watch stuff like that, but i did because i couldn't find tv remote basically. but i did because i couldn't find iv remote basically. but i did because i couldn't find i wasnote basically. but i did because i couldn't find i was outraged cally. but i did because i couldn't find i was outraged because anyway, i was outraged because a homeowner pursued two burglars in his car , ended up these , got in his car, ended up these, got knocked off their bike and the homeowner got sent prison where serial criminals did not. i was infuriated and. i think to me it smacks of a lot of what's wrong with british just system. but i can't debate because neither of you was watching that tv programme night. so anywhere around that i wanted . have fun . around that i wanted. have fun. instead i'll talk first about this country . instead i'll talk first about this country. how religious are you as an individual at a little bit or not christians are in a minority know in england and wales the latest census data shows that 46.2% of people call themselves . and that, by the way

themselves. and that, by the way , is down from what was , 59.3% a , is down from what was, 59.3% a decade ago . are you a christian decade ago. are you a christian 7 decade ago. are you a christian ? yeah, i guess. church regularly. and while it's obviously sad that few people identify as christians, i just have to create your one small point, which is not christianity is not in a minority it's still the largest group. there are more christians and self—described atheists. it is simply the number of people who call christian has dipped below 50% for the first time. what i'd say briefly is two things. first of all, the archbishop of york put out a very sensible statement saying he's statement saying perhaps he's not it down a not surprised, but it down a challenge for the christian community britain, which community in britain, which i think positive looking think is really positive looking at now we're seeing a say at it now we're seeing a say much britain is a very much broadly. britain is a very open liberal, diverse society , open liberal, diverse society, but many of our institutions do stem from the church. it's not just churches and community groups, but also much of schooling as christian foundations and going , you know, foundations and going, you know, 800,000 jews hospitals were

first set up in britain by christian community and today it's groups , all religions that it's groups, all religions that run and operate food to benefit their community. so i'm not just a christian who would defend the role of christianity, which i would also defend the role and participation of all religions in british society. so i are concerned . i mean, we have split concerned. i mean, we have split hairs about the terminology. the fact of the matter is there are more people this country now that christian fact. that are not christian fact. they religious at all, they are not religious at all, actually there are people actually than there are people identifying as christian. identifying as being christian. and you get concerned by the and do you get concerned by the decline? think it's decline? do you think it's something people should be something that people should be troubled or not? i wouldn't troubled by or not? i wouldn't use the word troubled, would i say maybe the archbishop say? maybe like the archbishop of that is the of york that there is the challenge because , you know, challenge because, you know, religion, any religion, like any other movement makes and movement, makes mistakes and organised like organised religion like organised religion like organised politics gets things wrong bring so much wrong, but it can bring so much personal richness and such fichness personal richness and such richness to things like education and community life as well that the church has just got to see it an opportunity got to see it as an opportunity and down in the dumps and not be down in the dumps about an about it, see it as an opportunity to people

opportunity to talk to people about talk to about the gospel, but talk to people about things people about other things as well, about living well, like faith or about living intolerance or about making a contribution to your community . contribution to your community. because to me, the church is about, yes it's about religious faith prayer and devotion, faith and prayer and devotion, but about these but it's also about all these other can other things where religion can play other things where religion can play positive in public life. play a positive in public life. ben—hur, baby, you religious man. not very man. not, not, not very religious. i mean i've been brought up surrounded by a really the sea of my mother's church of england and. i mean i peace is obviously got a very developed view the subject and i his views on this but i mean i see christianity as having been on the retreat in the united kingdom the last couple of hundred years you know we've gone from a church that had massive wealth, massive influence , massive political influence, massive political sway to a church that slowly are not with it on the on the vine. i mean, i think that that might be too strong a way to describe it, but certainly one that is less projecting . and nowadays

less projecting. and nowadays almost you can believe in pretty much anything and being member of the church of england as far as i can, i can figure and i don't think people like the archbishop do the archbishop of canterbury do the church england many favours church of england many favours because , you they they because, you know, they they talk down christian values , as talk down christian values, as you know. i've heard i've heard i've heard welby really say things that i think are outrageous . but from a christian outrageous. but from a christian perspective , well, you know, perspective, well, you know, he's talked about . the for, you he's talked about. the for, you know, the acceptance of values which are essentially not christian. i don't to be drawn on it on the programme, michel, because i think what you know, we're getting into areas are a bit problematic and people will know what i'm talking about. i think we're well being. i know now i'm itching to say, but like what? well, i just. do you mind if i talk around the subject rather than specific on it? because you know what i don't want to do ? be accused of, you want to do? be accused of, you know, stirring things up. but

people like, well, we haven't done the of england any favours and i and so i've seen christianity on the retreat and for me not being , you know, a for me not being, you know, a sort of religion ist, if you like, for me , more important like, for me, more important thing is the and the values that christianity has with this country, which again think on the retreat and indeed attack and so i would see those values , you know, tolerance , , you know, tolerance, liberalism, acceptance all of those being actually against the nafion those being actually against the nation . and one area where nation. and one area where coming back , your question where coming back, your question where i think i can express view is with the way we'll supported blm supports blm which is you i you might not see this as a religious point but this is the championing of a particular ethnic minority in case black at the exclusion of other ethnic backgrounds , principally white

backgrounds, principally white and. that to me is a wholly promotion then, you know, all people believe correct me if you think i'm wrong, peter in christianity are born equal and so i see the politicisation the church by people like well being the preparedness to accept these kinds of views as actually part of the retreat of christianity . of the retreat of christianity. and what i more than the numbers that you've just thrown out this evening is that the value of the nafion evening is that the value of the nation and what grew up to take for granted you know, they're being undermined fantastic values . you know, i see that as values. you know, i see that as a much bigger threat. well, let's let's be blunt. let's not be around the bush. i am not overly religious i was christened into the church of england, but i must say and i don't mean to be rude, but i think i was christened more because it was almost the trendy thing to do at the time that i was born . that's what people

was born. that's what people kind of did with their kids not being rude. if my if my mum was watching or anything. i watching or anything. but i think was think that's why i was questioned any questioned as opposed to any genuine . i think so i genuine religious. i think so i would on paper define myself, i guess as a christian , see a guess as a christian, see a view, but i'm certainly not proactive . you certainly can proactive. you certainly can test me on any of the things and i'll pass that test. i wouldn't, but i wonder if the traditional view values. i'm sure there's a proper word for it and i don't know what it is, but the proper the traditional values of is it's still compatible with modern day life. so for example, things like society is move now laws moved, attitudes have moved things , like gay marriage is things, like gay marriage is very widely accepted and rightly so. in my mind. is very widely accepted and rightly so. in my mind . is that a so. in my mind. is that a contradiction with ? lots of contradiction with? lots of religious aspects ? no, i think religious aspects? no, i think it's attention, but not necessarily a contradiction . necessarily a contradiction. think the church has move with the times. now, some people would say it's far too quickly and other people would say it is being fantastic. what does that

mean? with the times mean? it's moved with the times well to perhaps of the most well to pick perhaps of the most prominent sometimes heated example was you know , the church example was you know, the church of england. i don't know so much about catholicism, but the church has accepted church of england has accepted failings over the treatment of gay people . and it's accepted gay people. and it's accepted that like big institutions, is god lot along wrong on race in the last few hundred . and i also the last few hundred. and i also want to pick up is i mean i'm desperate trying not to be offensive so please if anyone is christian and it's not you i think you try to take shows. well i'm telling officials, i don't know what it is. it accepted within the christian faith, for example, to be gay and marriage is i and to have gay marriage is i accept it? yes, that. but clearly the christian faith is enormous broad brush . you know enormous broad brush. you know you know from ethiopia to moscow to rome to canterbury to london. so i can't set myself up as spokesman it's not just the church of england has a very liberal and i worship with gay people i'm not gay by way of gay

people. every sunday in london . people. every sunday in london. but perhaps the catholic church, which has been much more conservative that's just a statement of fact, is very interesting. pope francis and when asked a couple of years ago after a conservative history , after a conservative history, the catholic church about living in a gay relationship , he said, in a gay relationship, he said, who am i to judge? and who am ito judge? and i thought, what a wonderful and humble thing to say. mm can anyone home even recall recite the ten commandments? i was trying to think, goodness is, i think i'm not going to i'm not going to make you do the i was trying to think today i do the ten or not i don't think i could quite frankly all i'm sure quite frankly all ten i'm sure you know all ten i think i know most of the other thing i'd say about that that lots of about that briefly, that lots of the commandments roll to the ten commandments roll to every culture. thou shalt not steal , love every culture. thou shalt not steal, love your god about not being violent. these are it by neighbours. wife, yes so that identity of many cultures . yeah,

identity of many cultures. yeah, i mean i've got them front of me actually and actually to me they just did a good value set to your life by the to not me i don't necessarily i mean some of them course they are tied into god. for example, they say you can't worship of the gods and things like that. that is obviously religious, but a lot of good code of them are just a good code like your father, your mother just respect elderly, those kind of it is a code for of things. is it is a code for goodness actually that i think we could learn a lot of things from any final words . want to from any final words. want to add the mix? no. mean, i add into the mix? no. i mean, i think couple of subject think you on a couple of subject was shy talking about, was just shy of talking about, you and but i do see the you know, and but i do see the church as regressing society and it's interesting peter used the word you know it's moved with the times well you know if you are an ardent christian , a sort are an ardent christian, a sort of a fundamentalist christian you like, which i'm not, you'd argue morality , is timeless and, argue morality, is timeless and, you know, the church should values which don't evolve with time because they're god given say briefly i think to show that

a quoting if that's the right word of the ten commandments that that circle because values are but the application of that we've been talking about property or sexual relationships the values might be consistent but how apply changes century after century ? i'll tell you one after century? i'll tell you one thing i don't like just before i move off this topic, i don't the watering down of things like christmas . so now you'll see all christmas. so now you'll see all the things we'll see. you know what they do? you can't say merry christmas. you have to say seasons . greetings. i know who's seasons. greetings. i know who's watering. i can give you watering. well, i can give you a classic example , a little classic example, a little insight life. i was insight into my life. i was trying to buy some christmas pyjamas little boy and pyjamas for my little boy and i was astonished how many of these pyjamas were just saying, happy holidays happy holidays? i would say, well, it's not my holiday, it's christmas. i want it to be merry christmas, happy, i've got lot of people around me already saying to me their school saying to me that their school nurseries , whatever it is, have nurseries, whatever it is, have stopped nativity . there's no stopped the nativity. there's no need. me this. this need. and let me say this. this up it tends to up every year, and it tends to be individual local authorities

have misinterpreted guys and said we say the word christmas it's , not just you can't say the it's, not just you can't say the word christmas and you have a christmas but christmas nativity, but synagogues are comfortable that mosques comfortable that. mosques comfortable with that. nobody with people. but you nobody but with people. but you don't see christianity on the retreat that it's under attack that who are meant to promote it actually don't do much for its cause. actually don't do much for its cause . well well yeah i did cause. well well yeah i did i was taught me about it. we don't have any time of being sealed off when i one minute and 6 seconds. nice but go on that if you want to defend very, very briefly would defend the archbishop for speaking out on social and things like social issues and things like rwanda immigration policy. and i won't all now but for won't into all that now but for centuries religious leaders and christian leaders have been there to challenge the government think a government and i think that's a good because can up good thing because i can up for the like i shall the oppressed. well like i shall leave you to ponder that over the next couple of minutes . i the next couple of minutes. i take break. when come take a quick break. when i come back to you back, i want to talk to you about whole what this about this whole what about this legal but harmful clause that's now been removed? was that the

right decision or not? and do we need yet another breakaway party of politicians that all want to keep their own jobs? and they think that way to do it is to create a new party. some of your thoughts and i'll see you in a couple minutes .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co me michelle dewberry keeping you company through until 7:00 tonight. lots of you getting in touch, talking about, by the way, i appreciate the fact you getting in touch talking about that tv program that i watched last night where they sent homeowner that defended his property prison and the two career criminals that didn't. sorry broke into his house or attempted to they didn't go to prison. i was asking basically is the whole justice system the wrong way around this country? i'm pleased

to that of send money to say that many of send money to say that many of send money to at agree to individuals at home agree with so good on you for that with me. so good on you for that . what's this? many people you're saying? actually, you're less concerned about the decline of christianity as what you are the rise of in this country that seems to be something that's concerning you more chris many of you getting in touch that you do know the ten commandments. that's very good . yes. who says that's very good. yes. who says as many people in this country do follow those comments naturally and in every of life. so those people call themselves christian , but i'm not sure christian, but i'm not sure because . as we were just because. as we were just discussing there, many if these commandments, they are almost value sets . and for many people, value sets. and for many people, some of those obvious in all of them, but some of those commandments will be way of commandments will be a way of living . and they don't want that living. and they don't want that association to religion. they just would like those values. maybe with that . you maybe you agree with that. you don't lots of people getting in touch about judgement path and i that's kind of comments that we

like all the time says michelle you an edible wedding cake you look an edible wedding cake tonight so i don't have that as a compliment or no, he should have stopped it edible . edible. have stopped it edible. edible. you're listening . not watching, you're listening. not watching, by the way, i'm wearing a polo neck my in my house is neck because my in my house is broken up so cold. i want it to come into work in my pyjamas today, but i didn't think it was a look. i compromise is a good look. so i compromise is as polo as shocked on a polo neck instead. thank i'm instead. but thank you. i'm glad that move on, that you like. let's move on, shall we? about the so—called red wall, by the way, when you even to look at what the red wall is and where and which seats part it, can seats are part of it, you can get about ten different versions depending what is your depending on who or what is your source . but anyway, talking source. but anyway, i'm talking about course , northern about of course, the northern kind of midlands seats that when tory in the 2019 election, many of them for the first time, many of them for the first time, many of these seats traditionally burn were as i've just been inspired to say about. yeah and if there was an election tomorrow chances are they'd be wiped out. yeah. the tories would be out in a minute. i want

to ask you why people don't think labour are stepping think that labour are stepping up to that. boyd but ben, i want ask think that a ask you, do you think that a breakaway kind party the breakaway kind of party is the answer ? well, i think think answer? well, i think i think everything up in the air, you know, three years ago with an 80 seat majority, you couldn't have predicted that within under three the tory party three years, the tory party would be so riven with division and it would have failed so fundamental in delivering its manifesto promises that . the red manifesto promises that. the red bull, who were elected effectively on a on a manifesto to take back control of our borders, to these these constituencies which have so far been overlooked . politicians you been overlooked. politicians you know, that they could be so up in the air and so i think we're going to see some really interesting political movements the next couple of years, new are certainly not off the agenda . a coalition of parties may equally be on agenda. you know, some of the smaller parties who some of the smaller parties who so far haven't had much a showing particularly obviously the reform party , which is now the reform party, which is now polling 8 to 9% in the polls and

that may attract some of the red wall red wall voters. you know, it stands that the party, which is brexit party, stands on is the brexit party, stands on an which they are very an agenda which they are very augned an agenda which they are very aligned with. the other aligned with. but the other thing i would say brexit thing i would say is brexit party in the 2019 election. i mean obviously i stood as well, but you couldn't get any closer augned but you couldn't get any closer aligned on that. the election was a brexit election, sorry, a brexit election and the brexit party win that. no, but it would give you the confidence that a new break with the brexit a brexit party surrendered in 2019. it stood down 317 tory mps , many of whom were remainers . , many of whom were remainers. it didn't stand down, i know, but yeah. but the minute you did the minute nigel didn't stand for a seat and when he stood down, then the 317 candidates basically , it was anointing the basically, it was anointing the tories into office and i think the party lost a lot of votes on the party lost a lot of votes on the back of those two decisions. but i would as well that keir

starmer is moving. i think slowly, perhaps not as fast peter might like, but slowly try and fill that void. if look at some of the things he's saying now, you know, he's now against freedom of movement , was freedom of movement, was promoting freedom of movement a very wall he very subject in the red wall he was on for rejoining single market market. he says there's no way he's going to change the brexit deal now, he even said that churchill was his favourite conservative prime minister. now two years ago we were defending churchill as a misogynist , churchill as a misogynist, racist promoter of , hatred, you racist promoter of, hatred, you know, that's and. and the labour party suddenly moved to, to embrace churchill, which i'm delighted , see. but i think that delighted, see. but i think that is a move towards the red wall, you know, to take on that red vote. where do you stand on this peter. do you reckon labour have got it in them to regain some of those seats. they do have it in by the way. i do think ben is quite right about that. i think people like and many people in the labour party ultimately would been defending would have been defending churchill and

churchill many of our lives and i someone who right i think good someone who right tell clement attlee tell me i think clement attlee served cabinet we've served the wartime cabinet we've churchill anyway that is literally ancient history albeit very stuff . labour very important stuff. labour have got lead in the polls as have got a lead in the polls as massive think be massive i don't think they'll be taking granted . i think taking that for granted. i think the narrow . there's the polling was narrow. there's every sign can win back the every sign they can win back the red there's a hell of red wall, but there's a hell of a to be done. and a lot more work to be done. and ben to say that ben is right to say that immigration and free movement is part conversation. yes part of that conversation. yes hey, i'm bit of a funny fish hey, i'm a bit of a funny fish with know i'll get with all because i know i'll get in trouble because i do share this often . people always write this often. people always write and me, didn't and criticise me, but i didn't vote until was 30 years old. vote until i was 30 years old. and for the last two general elections, i've stood myself. and if there was a general election tomorrow , i wouldn't be election tomorrow, i wouldn't be standing. i just don't know if i'd actually bother to vote. i know, know . people get cross know, i know. people get cross with and say should with me and say that should pulled and the rest of it. pulled and all the rest of it. but not. paul well, i'm with but i'm not. paul well, i'm with you, and think what you, michel. and i think what you're think is you're you're saying think is you're crying for new political crying out for new political force. your politics homeless at the moment, because i mean, the tories are nothing like what

they promised to be when they won the 2019 election. nothing like you know they're not even delivering if truth be told we can have a debate on if can have a debate on brexit if you but then not delivering you like but then not delivering brexit they haven't fulfilled their manifesto . they put their core manifesto. they put a border down irish sea, they can't get control of the borders they're on high taxation , they're on for high taxation, high borrowing, state intervention , micro—management intervention, micro—management of our lives, all of this is what we voted against in 2019, and i there are that there's a lot of people out there who are crying out for a new political force. so something i think will emerge. yeah, but then it's all well and good saying we're politically homeless and we want this new force . but actually one this new force. but actually one of the things that i've learned , having stood in two general elections, i've stood as an independent, i've stood for the brexit party. the advantage the established parties have over your new start ups, over independence, it's immense down to just simple things like the

labour party, tory party , labour party, tory party, whatever, they will have any database essentially of this, of this campaign as in parish councils and know who is where is their where do they need to target, what are the they have a vast massive machine as and when you are a new person independent whether you are a new start—up , whether you are a new start—up, it is a david and goliath battle and it is incredibly hard. i come back as i would challenge you a lot, not because you have independents who have overturned the party machinery. by independents who have overturned the party machinery . by the way, the party machinery. by the way, i think the northern breakaway of tory mvp's is totally dead in the water because extra parties like the sdlp or change take uk tend to die death for the people of the indies that managed to succeed often not always they do so on a very hyperlocal issue . so on a very hyperlocal issue. so it'll be something to do with i don't know like a local hospital. yeah, that's wyre forest. wyre forest save the local hospital. it wasn't , it

local hospital. it wasn't, it was save i think the and a unit at the local hospital about ten years ago in the blair era there was of course martin bell who won in titanic since neil hamilton but corrupt and in bretton woods in essex but independents do get in and i it's great but it's sort of fighting independence is it it's about a political about creating a new political to vacuum that the have to fill the vacuum that the have created by a effectively imploding last place so different because i would say the tories always had a vacuum and labour should try to fill it where perhaps you'll come from the right saying tories have vacated well, they vacated their former. well, they have analogies that they know . have analogies that they know. you would agree that the tory i mean conserved of the mean the conserved of the traditional conservative values involve low taxation small state deregulation of the individual giving all money in our back pocket doesn't exist and that doesn't exist. well i think that is just and tory sorry is interrupted . i think that's interrupted. i think that's a story the conservative party tells itself to make itself feel better and there was a time they believed what they said. they

believed what they said. they believed that. but did it happen? well, i think that story in the coalition would have set that up. you know, i don't love banging on about too much history, but the first thing the coalition was put up vat coalition did was put up vat like tory governments tell them tells us, yeah, great. our first thing margaret thatcher said , thing margaret thatcher said, cut taxes. you know, she cut the 3% tax to 60. the 33% and she had a for a tax on the bankers. yeah i'm just looking at why she had a windfall tax on the i'm looking at my many of you are in the same camp as me that if there was an election tomorrow don't think that you would of many of you is saying that you want reform a couple of people, linda, here saying that we need ben habib to be the leader of a new party. would you be the leader of a new party, barnaby. new party. would you be the leader overyiew party, barnaby. new party. would you be the leader overy much rty, barnaby. new party. would you be the leader overy much to, barnaby. new party. would you be the leader overy much to beirnaby. new party. would you be the leader overy much to be part y. new party. would you be the leader overy much to be part of i would very much to be part of a new political force. i thought liz truss was going to do it for . us within the tory party, she's failed spectacularly. as it happens and sadly i think as

a result of her failure. people see her agenda is having failed. we didn't . see her agenda is having failed. we didn't. her agenda was right. she didn't deliver it in the way that did , that allowed it to that did, that allowed it to succeed . so i mean, i really succeed. so i mean, i really hopei succeed. so i mean, i really hope ican succeed. so i mean, i really hope i can be part of a political movement party actually challenges this first past the post system and delivers a new force for all values i've just described. yeah. andrew's just said. what is the point in voting? michel all a disgraceful mess. what we actually voting for these lots of just empty policies and promises all which are just all about basically it's not just people just getting themselves at the next general election. unfortunately, i with you i wouldn't vote tomorrow and i know that doesn't make me very good and not very grateful to the suffragettes or whatever it is that you're going to email me in. but basically, i think the politicians should be better. the should better, they the party should better, they should what they're should deliver what they're actually saying that would actually saying that they would do. like me do. and then people like me

perhaps little perhaps would have a little bit more in the system and more faith in the system and take our vote. anyway take our time to vote. anyway i'm take a quick when take our time to vote. anyway i'mcome take a quick when take our time to vote. anyway i'mcome backake a quick when take our time to vote. anyway i'mcome back on a quick when take our time to vote. anyway i'm come back on the jick when take our time to vote. anyway i'mcome back on the fallouten we come back on the fallout to you the safety bill you about the online safety bill have you seen this this whole nofion have you seen this this whole notion of legal but harmful content that is basically being removed from the bill? is that a good. removed from the bill? is that a good . oh, no, tell me and i'll good. oh, no, tell me and i'll see you in a couple of minutes . see you in a couple of minutes. i'm michael portillo. join on gb news on a sunday for topical discussion debate arts and culture and sometimes even ethical dilemmas. i don't always agree with you, michael michael portillo sunday's on gb news the people's britain's news.

channel hello there. welcome back to dewbs & co. with me, michel dewbs& co. with me, michel dewberry. if you're thinking to

yourself nearly time for the football, stop , you know you've football, stop, you know you've got another 20 minutes. yeah, and i'm with right up until that point right through till seven ben habib keeps me company the business man and the former party mep and alongside him, peter edwards is former editor of levelised . we've just been of levelised. we've just been talking about being politically homeless new party's richard says michel. voting should be , says michel. voting should be, but with the option . none of the but with the option. none of the above that people can take it and show the size of the politically homeless . but how politically homeless. but how would you enforce , richard? would you enforce, richard? i mean, i've just said for example, i'm probably not going to vote if . there was an to vote if. there was an election tomorrow, but how are you going to make me votes? i'm intrigued your intrigued how would your compulsory and are compulsory voting work and are you that would agree you someone that would agree with touch. me with that? get in touch. tell me your gp that gbnews.uk your thoughts. gp that gbnews.uk is email address. now let's talk shall we? the whole freedom of speech, social media, this whole kind of online safety bill situation. now it's had a few

iterations, hasn't it? and now the whole phrase legal but harmful. that was contained within the bill is now being removed many people are celebrating this saying that this is a great thing for free speech on the other side of the fence people are concerned about whether or not children say, for example might be at risk. peter, why you stand on it a huge concern and. i don't want to be kind of party political about it except it follows the well, several teenagers taking own lives, which is horrific and absolute tragedy. so i would actually pick out what the head of the samaritans said today when she talked the government changes or announced this morning and which said that the damaging impact type of content will come that later doesn't end on 18th birthday, increasing the controls it uses have is no replacement for holding social media sites to account . so media sites to account. so i think this has been understandably written up as bit of a watering down. it was a proposal to keep not just children but young people

generally safe fun. i have very strong views on this. but yeah, so , you know, i, i'm surprised so, you know, i, i'm surprised peter says what he says because coming from your part of the political spectrum and with your christian , you know, you be christian, you know, you be championing the ability for people to speak freely and i think one of the just drawing again on the christian thing you know one of the problems i think with values retreat is that with values in retreat is that they get replaced by legislation , values going to retreat, the ability to understand what is a courteous and acceptable way to treat other human beings gets replaced by some of government diktat and will forever surrender drawing up our ability to think independently and looking for some site kind of, you know, imposing vision of regulation on we behave it should be self evident to these privately internet sites that they shouldn't allow it is that cause that unfortunate young

girl to take her life they shouldn't allow it , girl to take her life they shouldn't allow it, but it shouldn't allow it, but it shouldn't be in the realms of regulation . however since we are regulation. however since we are in the realms of regulation , am in the realms of regulation, am delighted that they have removed the provision that anything harmful, even if it's legal, can be , you know, challenged. i'm be, you know, challenged. i'm absolutely delighted by it. because where do stop? you know what point do you say well that just is unbelievably offensive to me i you know i love and you've insulted coffee and so you've insulted coffee and so you know you should be cancelled and that's the kind of you know pathetic example but you know the point i'm making and so i think absolutely right that they took that language out and i would go much further i don't . would go much further i don't. it's right, by the way, peter, that the they they haven't got protections in for youngsters there are no if bill turns into an act there will be protections required of , an act there will be protections required of, you an act there will be protections required of , you know, underage required of, you know, underage users of internet sites. i think

if under 13, you know , won't be if under 13, you know, won't be allowed to watch this sort of harmful content . but this is for harmful content. but this is for me , governance , interference , me, governance, interference, people losing sight of important are freedoms being challenged and voluntarily away. you know, we're giving away freedom to these regulations and we just need know as a society what is acceptable , what isn't. and acceptable, what isn't. and you're right fully concerned about what your children on onune about what your children on online is very unusual for me to be on the fence i'm normally this side or that side and on this side or that side and on this issue i've got two parts to my life. i've got one part of my life which is an adult i am an aduu life which is an adult i am an adult i not need to whoever the current prime minister is or , current prime minister is or, whatever the governing body is. i don't anybody to dictate to me . you can't see that content because you might be offended or you might be. i don't need that. i don't want to welcome it. i want less interference, not more so that's the adult part of my

brain. so therefore i celebrate this whole kind of removal, brain. so therefore i celebrate this whole kind of removal , the this whole kind of removal, the legal thing going the legal harmful thing going the other side of my brain as a mummy and i have a two year old. i tell now i've got a two year old and i want my little boy to be sheltered from as much stuff as for as long as possible . and as for as long as possible. and i'm a strict parent, i believe in parental discipline i that if my son had telephone when i decided it was appropriate i would monitor what he was doing on that phone and not doing on that phone . and i would take that phone. and i would take great responsibility for that. however i could be the most strict parent in the land. peter and if my son on an innocent site, let's just say twitter, whatever, and is an innocent search and he can have returned him what i would describe as hardcore that's not acceptable so for me i think you're asking impossible with this bill giving adults the freedom free speech

to see and hear and write what they want and protecting children at the same time. i think it's impossible well, i think it's impossible well, i think you can do both things . i think you can do both things. i think you can do both things. i think it's right to try it. and although i disagree with the on lots of things, i think the bill probably came out of good intentions of maybe some of them, not all of them, but some of them might have been lost a little and do take you little bit. and i do take you back know, not part of back to, you know, not part of his point, not labour samaritans speaking i want speaking out about it. i want to make point. i don't make a broader point. i don't think freedom speech under think freedom is speech is under threat a significant extent. of course , there are particular course, there are particular controversies about freedom of speech on university campus or online. but i've regularly had discussions on this channel or other channels about things like brexit and, about covid vaccines and lockdowns and the fact that we do among ourselves have a big argument about it in a courteous and hopefully informed fashion, persuades me that freedom speech is still very much alive and kicking in the uk and i've not read this bill is enormous from what i know, is it. i don't

believe a threat to freedom of speech and i do believe there are some to keeping our safe and i believe we could do more to work effectively. many i think it's about two thousand and seven, to be sorry , 2017, the seven, to be sorry, 2017, the government tried to create introduce age verification onto polling sites and what they wanted to do was basically to prove that use over 18. if you want to access is content right and they dropped plans and they dropped their plans i think that's about 2019 and i was astonished today it's a land third of 5 to 7 year old so what i would call very little kids now they they've got social media accounts a third of five year olds have first and foremost i want to get older those parents ben i don't want to him a big yeah, to give him a big shake. yeah, but that's the michelle that it's down to the parent you know since when since when did we welcome the state into our homes to bring up our children . but to bring up our children. but ben i am a strict man right. and my child air. i mean, ideally as a women to have a smartphone. so

it's about 18 by accept that's unrealistic he will not have an unchecked it is not going to happen good and that's done to you a now but but he can you as a mum now but but he can go on people children can go on and sites put in innocuous search terms and have returned them what i call maybe i'm being a prude. but i would call it hardcore children. and it's not just about by the way, there's a lot broader than this, but it horrifies me. i don't want my kid anywhere near that. and yes , can supervise his telephone . , can supervise his telephone. and absolutely i will. but it's going beyond far. and absolutely i will. but it's going beyond far . yeah. i mean, going beyond far. yeah. i mean, i'm not advocating that , you i'm not advocating that, you know, used to be on the top when we were children. we couldn't reach it . nowadays it's on the reach it. nowadays it's on the end of a laptop. so you you can get to but i'm not advocating that there should be protections in place young people be in place for young people be able social media. well able to use social media. well i mean they use not to be i think you had to be over 18 to get a facebook account , you had to be over 18 to get a facebook account, didn't you? that's started and i mean

that's how it started and i mean i completely that up to certain age they should be shielded and they should be protections in place ensuring social media sites don't allow promotion of that of material to underage children for the rest us you know we've got to be able to express other stuff in this onune express other stuff in this online well you're going to safety post have a couple of minutes to express yourself because i think i'm going a quick break. am i? yes, i am sorry. yes i'm going to have a quick say. you cancelled me. yes council express yourself in the break. i'll see you guys .

in two. hello welcome back to dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry . with me michelle dewberry. keeping you company till 7:00 tonight alongside we've been happy the businessman and former

brexit mep alongside him, brexit party mep alongside him, peter edwards, the former editor of labour list. peter edwards, the former editor of labour list . many of you of labour list. many of you getting in touch tonight about that whole harms thing. jim says two words, michel. simple discipline. government must should not become the country's parents . patricia says , parents. patricia says, goodness, the government has dropped legal but harmful. this is what is women to be arrested basically for saying simple things like they believe a woman is an adult human female simply because someone else finds that harmful . keep the state out of harmful. keep the state out of our lives . go on the patricia to our lives. go on the patricia to say children's should always be protected. so i guess what i'm pondenng protected. so i guess what i'm pondering tonight is can you do both ? can you allow can you take both? can you allow can you take one platform and on one hand allow this free speech for all and for adults , and then on the and for adults, and then on the other hand, on the same platform, the same rules keep children safe. i'm sure you children safe. i'm not sure you can know , i hope can achieve it. you know, i hope you can. i'm just not convinced myself. tell me you think i'm myself. tell me if you think i'm

wrong . i've got to be wrong right. i've got to be honest. this kind of world honest. this whole kind of world right is not even this right now is not even just this country. the whole world quite downbeat, isn't it? quite depressing at moment? lots depressing at the moment? lots and of negative news. many and lots of negative news. many people say, why can't we talk about some positive stuff talk ? about some positive stuff talk? to me about upbeat stuff i do try. by the way, i've often asked you as well, if you say anything positive, so let me know because i'd love because a lot doom and gloom lot of the press doom and gloom but we've got but of course we've got something happy up and something happy coming up and i haven't england or wales of haven't we england or wales of course depending on some of the friends you say excited peter edwards yeah, i'm excited. i'm looking forward to you know we didn't talk about is foton going to start or not but i've followed it. oh, i'm a football fan. think england will get fan. i think england will get out group . they'll get in out of the group. they'll get in the stages. they won't the knockout stages. they won't win but it's a win the world cup. but it's a time you after tough year time you said after a tough year is , another opportunity for us is, another opportunity for us to and have fun. yes do are to come and have fun. yes do are you a football fan? but i'm not. not hugely, as evidenced the facti not hugely, as evidenced the fact i didn't know what time they were kicking. but go they were kicking. but i will go home it tonight and

home and watch it tonight and i will support england. i will be delighted wales win. you delighted if wales win. you know, they're both part the united kingdom and i'll watch the game with the band . want the game with the band. want a score? prediction from each of you plays peter edwards edwards to now. i think so told england so that was arrogant i seemed to new england you think i was going to die i was going to say three nil to england. three now to england. so it's a tricky one for me. obviously. i'm going to be but i do be supporting england, but i do have some welsh in me as well, so so whoever wins, so i do so whoever wins, obviously you know, you just got to be happy. i just want everyone to try and get through if can. but i wonder, will if they can. but i wonder, will you be? i mean i'm saying, will you be? i mean i'm saying, will you be? i mean i'm saying, will you be watching the football tonight? supposed be tonight? but what supposed to be saying the saying is don't watch the football watch football tonight. everyone watch nigel . can watch nigel farage. you can watch football uncatchable something can is nigel not watching can you? is nigel not watching the footy. i do that can't be good for his political brain yes i'd imagine nigel farage on me on holding lager. he should be

on holding a lager. he should be done with this. and just like in a well i'll tell you i'm a well i'll tell you what i'm intrigued to watch . i've been intrigued to watch. i've been watching day watching tv news all day long this it felt this morning. i'm sure it felt like this morning. anyway, i think about 11:00, but it think it was about 11:00, but it might have been early afternoon and some wales and we were live from some wales and we were live from some wales and was a bunch of welsh folk getting into the spirit . they getting into the spirit. they had their pints, they had their of wine. one of them was doing like a caterpillar dance on the floor. i'm sure it was about 11:00 this morning, possibly possibly one this afternoon. i just want to go back to that pub purely so that i can see the absolute stars some those people because i'm standing pub drinking in the caterpillar at 11:00 this morning. i'm not actually i would be in good form actually i would be in good form a 7:00 kick off so i'm going to be glued as well to gb news for that. be glued as well to gb news for that . but be glued as well to gb news for that. but i'll be glued as well to gb news for that . but i'll try be glued as well to gb news for that. but i'll try again to a test match where people are queuing drink 1030 queuing for a drink at 1030 and stay dinner and they set stay to dinner time and they set up. you call in, it's up. but what you call in, it's on that's a north, on the gosh that's a north, south court. yeah. when you say dinnertime, are talking dinnertime, what are you talking about right. time . he

about 6 pm. right. tea time. he means tea time. i thought you meant i thought. mean people meant i thought. you mean people dnnk meant i thought. you mean people drink at half and then drink at half time and then they're standing by 1230. they're still standing by 1230. yeah i was thinking what was that most from. and quite frankly it's good some. yes this is north and all standing is very north and all standing by 1230 of michelle oh oh this is a this is a home different conversation. right that note, if you are indeed going to go watch the football, i'll let you go because i to go it. so go because i want to go it. so whatever tonight is have whatever you do tonight is have a good one and i will be back tomorrow farage . good tomorrow next nigel farage. good evening, nigel. what have you got for us ? the football they got for us? the football they could watch it on catch up immediately thereafter, but for those that do want to watch live, it's the office of national statistics figures showing a massive change in the population in this country. but in those describing as christian has fallen very they're now a minority . see we'll debate. oh minority. see we'll debate. oh we our identity does it matter that's my debate for this

evening but first let's get the all important weather . hello, all important weather. hello, i'm aidan mcgivern from the met office. if lucky, you've got blue skies and sunshine this afternoon. western areas north and scotland. but for many other areas, it's widespread cloud mist and some stubborn patches persisting through the at the moment, weather systems are approaching from the west, but they're slowing down. they're coming up against high pressure, which holding that's which is holding firm and that's why got winds dry weather why we've got winds dry weather across the uk apart from one or two showers the far southeast two showers in the far southeast and area of low and this extensive area of low cloud mist and fog now the bright white areas are where we've got fog, southern and central scotland, parts of northern england and northern and central england and wales predominantly but wales helpful predominantly but some mysterious at low levels, some mysterious at low levels, some patches further west some fog patches further west and as well and a clearing skies overnight and it's here where we're likely to see a touch of frost dawn. but most, frost come dawn. but for most, it's three or four and it's three or four celsius and another start with some poor visibility on the roads during

wednesday morning . and again, wednesday morning. and again, it's going to take time for that low cloud mist and fog to lift in some spots , the fog will in some spots, the fog will persist through the day. for example north moors example the north york moors across the grampians into the southern uplands , but for southern uplands, but for northern areas, western areas and in the south we'll see brighter skies, a freshening breeze 12 celsius in devon and cornwall , as breeze 12 celsius in devon and cornwall, as high as the temperatures will get. for many it's mid to high single figures for northern it clouds over with some arriving later some rain arriving later on. that into western that rain pushing into western scotland by evening it's light. it's on and off and it will be accompanied by freshening breeze. but will keep the fog away. on thursday morning. elsewhere across the uk it is extensive low cloud mist and fog once again some very dense fog patches and widespread across central and southern parts of england. so it could be tricky. first thing on the roads once more and that fog will take some time through thursday to clear the sun of course this week at this of year. so another this time of year. so another misty, on for many

misty, murky day on for many friday brings a freshening breeze from the east so it's going to be brighter but also a bit colder .

the census figures show a massive change in the british population . millions no longer population. millions no longer saying that are christian. i ask the question are we losing our identity taxes put on businesses , this government doing damage. we an exclusive gb news report for you. i'll talk about balenciaga and why the press haven't commented. and joining me on talking pints model and wife of rolling stone, guitarist wood. joe wood , i'm looking wood. joe wood, i'm looking forward to it. but first, let's get the news which. tatiana

sanchez.