t0 well, hello there to well, hello there at 6:00 michelle dewberry. and this is dewbs & co the show where we'll dewbs& co the show where we'll get into the things that have got talking today and now after two years in the making, the labour party have unveiled blueprint for constitution reform, prepared, by the way , by reform, prepared, by the way, by none other than former prime minister gordon brown is full of stuff i think is about 40 points full of things . abolishing the full of things. abolishing the house of lords and more devolution . it's all a sense of devolution. it's all a sense of consultation . and so, you know, consultation. and so, you know, what we do on this show, don't we get into it.7 so let's console. i want your thoughts on it all. do you think this is the future of the country, if you like you've seen are you filled with optimism, ambition and are you nice and positive to do your thoughts and flexible working .7

thoughts and flexible working? get this very soon. we are right to request it from day one of the job. brilliant is i hear you shouts if you are in and indeed an employee that could do a thing. but how flexible do you reckon employers should be? i've said this a while. i personally worry some of these jobs before you know it. they will be going off shore that were going overseas . do you think i'm just overseas. do you think i'm just being a dinosaur or do you agree with me? how do you think world of work basically just needs to and present as many of them now been locked up for 23 hours a day. prison bosses warning that this means that people will be likely re—offend. so i'm asking you , how should you tonight, how should prisoners treated ? i love all prisoners be treated? i love all of that to come. but first, let's ourselves up to let's bring ourselves up to speed tonight's speed with tonight's latest headunes. speed with tonight's latest headlines . michelle, thank you. headlines. michelle, thank you. i'm tatiana sanchez in the gb newsroom, a 12 year old child is

first a secondary school student to have died after contracting strep a during the current, the uk health secured agency confirmed a single case of the invasive infection was identified and cofe in south london downing street is urging parents to be on the lookout for symptoms and say there are no shortages of antibiotics. more than 850 cases were reported in the week starting the 14th of november, compared to over hundred and 80 for the same penod hundred and 80 for the same period last year. dr. chris smith says strep can easily be treated if the symptoms are caught early . if you've got a caught early. if you've got a bright red flushed appearance on your cheeks, that could be that you've got scarlet fever. this is one sign that the infection is one sign that the infection is becoming significant and it could then an invasive infection if a person get better with the normal trajectory of a cold, they've got those those signs. they're also showing signs of deterioration then you should definitely seek a second opinion

from your gp . and the good news from your gp. and the good news is that if caught , these strep is that if caught, these strep infections respond reliably, reassuringly to cheap and cheerful, very safe antibiotics like amoxicillin . they rmt is like amoxicillin. they rmt is being urged to think about staging rail strikes , threaten staging rail strikes, threaten to bring travel chaos . christmas to bring travel chaos. christmas number ten says the current offer of an 8% pay rise over years, as well as a guarantee of no compulsory redundancies. april 20, 24. it's fair it was rejected by the union which the deal won't protect its members and will lead to unsafe practises practises labour says it will look abolishing the house of lords. it wins the it will look abolishing the house of lords . it wins the next house of lords. it wins the next general election . sir keir general election. sir keir starmer set out blueprint for a new britain during a speech in leeds, promising the biggest ever transfer of power from westminster to nations and regions. if his party comes into power launching a report was led by former prime minister gordon brown, he vowed to . the way the

brown, he vowed to. the way the country is governed this broken has held back our politics and, held back our economy . and i'm held back our economy. and i'm determined we unbind and free our potential . britain is one of our potential. britain is one of the most centralised systems in europe and the has not delivered . i don't want it to fall apart. i want us to build something new. downing street says it's confident the uk has sufficient energy ahead of temperatures severely set to drop this week. a cold weather alert has been issued for with severe conditions from 6 pm. wednesday to next monday . a yellow warning to next monday. a yellow warning for snow has been issued for northern scotland with temperatures expected to fall to as low as minus ten overnight. health care services are urging to protect vulnerable and, high risk groups . police say watches risk groups. police say watches and jewellery were stolen during

and jewellery were stolen during a burglary at raheem sterling home. the england forward's family came home to find a number items were missing. sorry say it's not clear when were taken. manager gareth southgate hasn't been able to confirm whether the footballer will return to qatar to play in the world cup quarter final weekend . meanwhile england is now preparing to take on champions france on saturday. bukayo saka scored against senegal last night in the three nil victory. he says england have nothing to fear in their upcoming . no doubt fear in their upcoming. no doubt , you know, the quality we have in our team, you know, we're blessed to have an amazing line with so much quality attacking players. and yeah , when you get players. and yeah, when you get selected in that in that line up, it shows how much confidence and trust the coach puts in. so it gives you that confidence to . there and shine. and . go out there and shine. and last night. were able to do last night. you were able to do that. last night. you were able to do that . harry last night. you were able to do that. harry has spoken about last night. you were able to do that . harry has spoken about the that. harry has spoken about the pain , suffering of women

pain, suffering of women marrying into royal family, calling an institution. the latest allegation was made in a netflix docu series that airs this week . there's a hierarchy this week. there's a hierarchy of the family, you know there's leaking , but of the family, you know there's leaking, but there's also of the family, you know there's leaking , but there's also plenty leaking, but there's also plenty of stories . that was a war of stories. that was a war against to suit other agendas. it's hatred. it's about race it's a dirty game . pain and it's a dirty game. pain and suffering of . women marrying suffering of. women marrying into this institution , this into this institution, this feeding frenzy . i realised feeding frenzy. i realised they're never to protect you . i they're never to protect you. i was . i they're never to protect you. i was. i didn't want to repeat itself . to online and to be plus itself. to online and to be plus radio . this is gb news. now it's radio. this is gb news. now it's back to . do you think . back to. do you think. i saw that? tatiana well, i'm with

you right through till 7:00 tonight. keeping me company alongside mikkel, the editor , alongside mikkel, the editor, the labour of labour and court at all. well, good evening. and alongside the entrepreneur, david tattersall. good evening to you, too. and you know , the to you, too. and you know, the drill, don't you? and it's not just about those three. it's about at home as well. what's on your mind tonight? the stories is simply in through is simply getting in through labour's plan. i prisons as labour's plan. i want prisons as well to . be on agenda for well to. be on my agenda for tonight. lock people up for tonight. we lock people up for 23 hours a day. you just for trouble are. they're basically going straight out going to go straight back out and crime. tim. he's and re commit crime. tim. he's been solitary. he's in been in solitary. he's been in prison few times . he says you prison a few times. he says you are own rehabilitate and are your own rehabilitate and it's the head, says tim . it's in the head, says tim. yeah, but tim does it matter what you do with all your time. can you. what about your head? can you. what about your head? can control your head if you can you control your head if you just locked in a box for 23 hours a i'm fascinated by hours a day? i'm fascinated by on that's the whole regional disparity these disparity we go around these circles way is labour circles dart way is labour the ones the answers today. what do you reckon to that and flexible working apparently demand it now

or you can request it should say from day one and you knew job is this just a recipe basically this just a recipe for basically finding yourself of a job finding yourself out of a job how in how flexible do you reckon employers have to be. you know you can request all you want. they don't have to give you it, though. i just want i just kind of sitting there thinking if i push little bit thinking if i push a little bit too much, i'm going to lose my job. what are you showing is going be more going packaging michelle be more modern flexible modern it's all about flexible working days. working these days. gbviews@gbnews.uk uk is my email. tweet me at gb email. you can tweet me at gb news but first the big news in town today is this announcement from the party. it contains a lot of stories about 40 points and 50 odd pages. if you think to yourself, how am i going to get sleep tonight ? you can get get sleep tonight? you can get it. you can read that. you'll probably be asleep by of it. i don't know. you tell me how many you get through anyway. the in this whole kind of bunch of stuff, they're evaluating it anyway. one them is things anyway. one of them is things like the house of like abolishing the house of lords possible lords as quickly as possible within if they within the first term. if they get. of region old stuff as

get. lots of region old stuff as well. lots more devolution . well. lots more devolution. let's just have a listen to the labour leader said this morning labour will rebuild trust by reforming the centre government, cleaning up , reforming the centre government, cleaning up, nourishing the relations between central government and the devolved authorities and replacing the unelected house of lords with a new democratically elected second chamber. not only expensive but representing the regions and nations of the united kingdom . oh yes. little united kingdom. oh yes. little bit of nourishment, don't you ? bit of nourishment, don't you? do you believe that, though, when you listen to that, do think, yes, that is the answer to me. i said, will start with to me. i said, i will start with you and foremost. gordon you first and foremost. gordon brown is the man that was commissioned to this report commissioned to do this report is about years. first is taken about two years. first question do you think question for me is, do you think he the man the job? i he was the man for the job? i think gordon brown has tremendous . tremendous experience. chancellor, he's been prime minister the scottish minister and during the scottish referendum in 2014 he made an absolutely pivotal intervention. so this is a man is deeply

invested in the constitution visiting the united kingdom and keeping the kingdom together. so i very people who i think there's very people who would placed him to would be better placed him to advise. the key is an advise. but the key point is an adviser, keir starmer's the decider. well, it's all open consultation as well. so what you've seen today, you've you've seen today, if you've seen report, not seen this report, it's not a done deal. it's to debate, discuss and what out discuss and see what comes out the end. gordon brown, do the other end. gordon brown, do you was man for the you think he was the man for the job to lead this kind of report review? i think brown i've got a lot of respect for him. i'm glad he's longer of active he's no longer part of active government. his time has government. think his time has gone. think his views gone. i think his views a traditional socialist . we traditional socialist. we certainly want that now. certainly don't want that now. but about the actual but let's talk about the actual proposal . talk the house proposal. talk about the house of example . currently of lords, for example. currently we are only industrialised country to have a larger second chamber than the primary chamber. that's from in the 21st century. do we really need our second chamber to include 92 or 91 hereditary peers, 25 bishops? would might as well have some

druid sitting there . i have to druid sitting there. i have to say, my experience, the house of lords and i've been many has been that these are hard working people. the mps i think a lot of them have got their by virtue of donations. i'm not happy that but primarily experience of the individual peers are that have been the most conscientious expert. i ever come across in any political chamber. so i'd be very careful about just abolishing it for the sake of it. so you would keep it, but perhaps tweak it. it. so you would keep it, but perhaps tweak it . what we've perhaps tweak it. what we've been through, it's really nice to politics real to real politics with real change going on post—brexit. no more migration and conversations. nice to talk real pre—election , real strategy. pre—election, real strategy. what i would be is saying right mps particularly we've seen recently, need to be held to account. i really do we need we need to look at them i would gradually it i would get rid of the hereditary peers or get rid of the religious the bishops and

i would to elect gradually probably every six months to a yeah probably every six months to a year. but regional and strategic and industry based executives that's i would do and has that as a smaller second chamber six months to a year i mean couldn't speak how many decades it would take. there's about 800 people at the moment in. the house of lords, as stands at the lords, as it stands at the moment, where do you on moment, where do you stand on this whole so—called abolishment of the lords? agree, disagree, agree abolish the lords. i i'd move quicker than david. i think the destination end point would be very similar to david's there is a requirement for expertise . is a requirement for expertise. it doesn't have to be in a chamber which in terms of only china's national people's congress is bigger than our house of lords. that is fit for purpose and the environment isn't particularly fit for purpose. i would say smaller chamber expertise , chamber expertise, representation and also chucking. let's move it out of london and you do it all at once

. and i think one can, as long as one knows the destination, one can chart a path to a landing, doesn't have to be done overnight . but maybe a year, two overnight. but maybe a year, two years. and i think it's part of a package of reform when a labour government becomes part of the renewal of this country as symbols of renewal will be things like that. because i was a powerful party in the nineties and when we came in 97, then consider the revising of the constitution settlement was part of broader and i think those of the broader and i think those symbols important. where symbols are important. where would it ? you symbols are important. where would it? you said symbols are important. where would it ? you said move would you put it? you said move out london. i think that is open to question . it could be in the to question. it could be in the north—west, north—east south—west and there's different processes to be able to identify where to put it. and so big, you said you want a lot smaller, big and. well, right now it's, as you said, several, i think is actually over 1000 people can tip up to the house if tip up to the house lords if they to at one any one one they want to at one any one one time. i probably keep it down into. 100, 200. i the needs to

drive the form so experts but how many experts what fields that business the specialisms and also representation for all regional or regional tier of governance whatever that is it doesn't to be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds people it doesn't have to be in london and it can be in a new in new environment, a new building somewhere outside of london. i think the experience , this think the experience, this country of moving things that actually been very productive and that when you go to treasury campus being moved to darlington is actually a very productive thing. you see i just fully agree actually in terms of relocating from london, why london be the centre of the power, get it north. do you agree with that? disagree no, i don't. and also i still i first may. well, no, i don't agree at all. i think i think we you centres of excellence as geographical and ideological centres of excellence. right. you go to hollywood that's where the great screen writers are,

you go to bollywood where the great industry is to great indian film industry is to la. where that's where l.a. that's where that's where the games you've the computer games is. you've got valley. that's got a silicon valley. that's where got have where the you've got to have people house of people together in the house of lords a centre of lords with a centre of excellence. i yes, i do. i think it i think be shouted at my it is. i think be shouted at my screen. like michelle screen. people like michelle mearns flat out centre of excellence. i think it is i think partly i think it's got probably of members are probably 50% of its members are doing fine job are doing a very fine job and are probably better human beings with more integrity than our so—called chamber. so i think and think moving everything about just just for cosmetic purposes that's all one that's going to sit on the isle of wight it makes no difference. i don't think we're moving everything and i think your point is right about centres but and it works the film industry it industry but this it works and industry but this is meant to be the seat of governance for the country and i think makes a difference. so think it makes a difference. so just when the bbc was momentum was moved to salford the treasury campus moved to darlington, these things make a difference minimum that the abc luke's nightmare of trains in

the north but something be done about it. how long would you go better. i should go back to the bbc hasn't go better. the you may think is go better. i tell you what we've got to we've got a very inefficient economy where we've got economic we've we've got economic decline. bbc's no is by no decline. the bbc's no is by no means the greatest the greatest broadcaster in the world anymore. trust the news anymore. we can't trust the news this point. so this is an interesting point. so i what you're getting i think what you're getting out here the salford here in terms of the salford thing, the relocation is fascinating. get into fascinating. i want to get into regions just few minutes regions in just a few minutes after the break. but let me ask you one of the problems i've got with the lords a day is with the lords, £323 a day is your allowance. right. don't your allowance. right. and don't by not going be by the way, i'm not going be hypocrite you want get me hypocrite if you want to get me in last number that tomorrow in the last number that tomorrow i'll day long just i'll take it all day long just to get that on the table. but why should they ge t £323 a day. why should they get £323 a day. that's not tax infuriates me. why the justification for why what's the justification for that it's a function of that? i think it's a function of the lords being and the lords being betwixt and between. of ritual. between. it's a sort of ritual. it a ritualistic position it has a ritualistic position where people can do work if they're not in and don't have

some faith . but it is was small some faith. but it is was small a chamber where people get a people get paid properly and it's kind of tax free. and that smaller chamber where you have experts you have business people you all regionally elected governance represented . i think governance represented. i think it would have similarly for lots of those folks in the lords have a it really challenging especially in these times that so much money you kind of punch a card when you go in and you get 300 quid. i mean it's ridiculous but i'd have a lot less of a problem with. it if it was a more focussed, was a tighter more focussed, harder chamber and. harder working chamber and. i think are hard think there are very hard working people that but just not all them. david i would go as all of them. david i would go as far saying you are of far as saying you are one of britain's best businessmen, tell me i'm missing something me i am i'm missing something because a disgrace because i think it's a disgrace , frankly, this allowance , frankly, that this allowance is tax free. i've asked lords about this when they've been on my show. i've asked them, what do think do this? and do you think do this? and they kind to oh i it is kind of said to me, oh i it is difficult know how tax it difficult to know how to tax it really. it's not a salary. it's like it's not difficult out tax

it, you put it through, you stick on it you pay stick a tax code on it you pay tax on it. of course they should be. but you're not missing anything. a new anything. but we need a new constitution. we definitely need reform the house of lords. reform of the house of lords. i think we got to have an think we we've got to have an elected chamber with some appointments, of appointments, maybe a third of a third the members could be third of the members could be appointed. they appointed. i do believe they have to be right next to the houses of parliament house of commons because otherwise no interaction. i'm to interaction. so i'm going to talk regionalisation, but talk the regionalisation, but there's way that people there's no no way that people should be paid tax free that is disgraceful. and i don't want to change that because that's not a new thing. is that your job? well thank you. but i'm absolutely astonished it's amazing. well, how is all of gone for long that they don't gone for so long that they don't pay gone for so long that they don't pay tax on it because it's a small part of a bigger problem and the house labour started on of lords reform ran out of steam out of hope ran out of around yes ran out of puff on it kind of sometime in the 2000 at the point when a labour government and at the point when house of

lords is abolished, which i think it will be abolished, that will be one of the things that's fixed and is there's no way fixed and this is there's no way a successor organisation has that. view is ken's that. one of my view is ken's written it in saying exactly the point that you're making when labour last in government labour were last in government there talks there was all of these talks about to how up abolishing whatever house whatever it was the house of laws didn't it then so laws they didn't do it then so why there's going to do it now then. it's a it was a started but not not finished. i think one reasons it'll be done one of the reasons it'll be done is it's just festered for is that it's just festered for so long and. it's time has its time has come. and the big chunky devolution reforms for northern ireland, for scotland, whilst they were already through this where the unfinished business is. this is next on the list. yeah. and you know, i asked you guys about gordon brown at the start of this programme about whether not programme about whether or not he's the you know, he's man for the job. you know, i gordon brown i remember meeting gordon brown actually and a very nice guy , actually and a very nice guy, very pleasant guy whatever. but one of the things that always sticks in my it was that whole gillian duffy bigot comment and i know you can dismiss that go

it's just one comment but to me i remember oh i can remember how many years ago it was but it was years ago and it sticks me and to me that was very kind of and is still very symbolic of the disconnect between a politician and the considerations concern those of your average member of public. and to me that labour policy is supposed to be the ones that are down with those working class . and i struggle to working class. and i struggle to past that really when i think of gordon brown many people will be emailing me. and talking about setting off gold reserves and things that. so i find it things like that. so i find it interesting that he is the choice of person to lead this plan . well, no one's perfect and plan. well, no one's perfect and don't think he. i think if he in his entire life if he could take back some comments and rewrite some of what's in his past so that that would be one of those episodes. the of what episodes. but the focus of what he's here is around he's doing here is around constitutional it's constitutional reform. it's something he's passionate about and keeping the united kingdom

together he's he made lots together. so he's he made lots of arizona. you know i come from a wing of the party which was never really terribly came around to be honest. but on this he's passionate and he's sincere , but he's the advisor on customers, the guy who's going to decide, well, consulted by you, me and members of the public. i got to say sarah, says michelle , what is everyone michelle, what is everyone talking about ? people don't even talking about? people don't even seem to able to get brexit seem to be able to get brexit done. will never be to get done. they will never be to get rid of the house of lords if they do , faces is going to eat they do, faces is going to eat his heart . they do, faces is going to eat his heart. hope that's not a big heart failure because i think you you never never. you know, you never say never. you these kind of you might see these kind of changes. you're a bit changes. chris, you're a bit harsher. say it michelle we harsher. you say it michelle we would be better off the whole government and goodness gracious let me know your thoughts. one of you here, philip said michelle should no longer be capital city of this country . capital city of this country. you're saying it is not true representation of britain . oh, representation of britain. oh, well, phil, you lead me nicely . well, phil, you lead me nicely. so you do to my next topic

because i'm going to take a quick break. when i come back, i want to talk to specific lee about this whole regional. it's featured a lot labour's plans today they reckon answer is more devolution . we just talked devolution. we just talked briefly in terms of moving the house of lords that got a thumbs up from one of my panel a phone down from the other one. why do you use it on the show in london, for example? b the all and end all. how do level up these regions ? give me your these regions? give me your thoughts and i'll see you in a couple minutes .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry keeping you right through till 7:00 tonight and alongside me, the editor of labour and code atlas while ali entrepreneur david thabiso. we've just been talking about the whole kind of change abolishment of the house of

lords where you sit on that. richard you seem like a sensible chap because we've just been talking about why allowances, the 323 quid are completely tax free. some people say it's a little bit complicated. rick's got the answer michelle and it's all too complicated to pay a tax . the allowance simple. just reduce the allowance, then pay the money to £150 per day. instead you don't mess around somebody picked up on the comment as i've just lost your name because it's flowing through saying about trends. you say my panel referenced say one of my panel referenced then trends being so abysmal then the trends being so abysmal up and off. and you're absolutely right my view is that they are but my view says that's because it's all going on when it comes to the all around the london projects and not in a focus on the regions as many of you as well. i'm not too happy about hs2. you want rid of but that leads me nicely to the whole kind regional inequality thing mentioned at the top of the show that there's this big new report labour circle 40 point plan as to what they're

going to do to fix britain . one going to do to fix britain. one of the areas that gets a lot of attention is this whole kind of regional inequality. there's a lots of reports i one of them out today as well in terms of the disparity between health nor first itself and all the rest of it. we know we round in circles , but how do we fix it then? david well, the first thing is there's no such thing as equality. and i don't think even aiming for it is, is intelligent and you're doing well equality of opportunity , inequality of of opportunity, inequality of access to public services is fine, equality of outcomes , of fine, equality of outcomes, of course, of careers, equality of wealth . but i don't think so. wealth. but i don't think so. i think that in like in sport, you have people that work achieving olympic gold medals. we have people in there's a there's the idea of 10000 hours of practise allows you to be world to achieve mastering something right now if we're we're really saying differences don't matter and do we should embrace difference difference in outcome we should be focusing on not

where are in the country, but who they are and what their what their individual in education and health care. what you know, what they are and all we're saying at the moment, i believe, is electioneering i think this is electioneering i think this is the labour party . i'll tell is the labour party. i'll tell you what, right. if you live in london, you don't want london to be weaker. and if you live in edinburgh, you want edinburgh to be is be stronger. so all this is saying wherever you live, we're going stronger, going to you stronger, healthier, we're going healthier, richer we're going to level are seeing at level up. all we are seeing at the moment in country is the moment in this country is levelling down. and i don't want to live in a country where the government example going government example is going around held on it on on, around being held on it on on, you know , on train just so you know, on on a train just so we can give everybody equality of access to that. we need to get we need make the get real we need to make the whole richer . we just whole country richer. we just sort out the health service and then then can talk about of then then we can talk about of opportunity. the opportunity. sorry about the rent there this just rent. is there is this just electioneering is it just buzzwords or is it a true a true achievable goal, if you like? and what do we even mean, by the

way, when we say levelling up? i think there's an evidence that inequality is rising and that the opportunities people have if they're in the north—east, if they're in the north—east, if they're in the north—east, if they're in parts of the north—west, are not just they're not keeping pace with those in the south and they're falling further behind and underpinning that. i think there's some really facts about health and people leaving the people leaving leaving the labour force in in parts in of this country . and i think you're this country. and i think you're the government can't ignore that you can't let someone who is born in the north—east just have life where they will have less opfions life where they will have less options and fewer fewer less access to training , less access access to training, less access to education and it's not that there's not a kind party political thing, whether it's bofis political thing, whether it's boris johnson talking about levelling up, which doesn't deliver or whether it's keir starmer talking about growth and tackling them because you can't you can't just dig at boris johnson say he's not delivering because the simple is because the simple fact is nobody's delivered all of all nobody's delivered of all of all different colours stripes because had delivered

because if someone had delivered a delivered it the pm a party had delivered it the pm had delivered it, i wouldn't be sitting here now in 2022 is all about levelling because it about levelling up because it would think can would have been i think you can make strong case that 97 make a very strong case that 97 to 2010 regional disparities whilst they still existed some those challenges were addressed education levels life expectancy health access to health . all of health access to health. all of these indicators were headed in these indicators were headed in the right direction. 12 years of , austerity, bad economic choices, bad economic policy , choices, bad economic policy, crashing the economy and everyone having to pay extra extra on their mortgage in the last three months that is what's pushed. that's what's increased disparity. the objective, i think parties would shout, i think parties would shout, i think they're a bad people in the conservative party. both parties would share the objective , having greater objective, having greater opportunity in. some of those regions where they're nervous and the moment i think that and at the moment i think that the evidence last 12 years the evidence the last 12 years is government hasn't the is this government hasn't the evidence of 97 to 2010 predicted before the crash things were headed the right direction . headed in the right direction. there weren't these big waiting lists a gap there were

lists you could a gap there were enough coming . taxes enough that was coming. taxes were lower . the enough that was coming. taxes were lower. the building blocks of growth and the quality of opportunity were there . that's opportunity were there. that's right. that has to be if you have , you cannot merely say we have, you cannot merely say we want less and less inequality . want less and less inequality. what you have to do is have a prosperous, well—run nation , an prosperous, well—run nation, an economy that's functioning and then and some consensus the way as well. but how do you achieve that then? well, from how do we achieve it from here ? right. achieve it from here? right. because every every is different right . we need to start right now. we need to start addressing maybe 15 or 16 things ranging from the this this electioneering , giving people electioneering, giving people just what they want to hear. we need to start actually addressing the problems. number one, health service . well, one, the health service. well, we've a problem because of we've got a problem because of the mismanagement during covid, we have 8 million people on a waiting it's disgusting. waiting list. it's disgusting. we're to have i believe we we're to have to i believe we should be bringing in we should be getting two or three health services. we can talk about another time 11414, a social care , one for intensive care.

care, one for intensive care. and we an emergency health service. even if got to bring in some people in five year migrant licences to sort out the operations of the backlog. the second need to sort out second bit we need to sort out education. people are education. too many people are getting very expensive getting and very expensive university degrees we need to deal . we need start deal with that. we need to start getting national service in believe , a national believe not military, a national service which will allow us to pick up the weak the vulnerable in society as well as create a national consensus on identity we need to start deciding what on earth this country for if we get richer then the inequality will still be there. but the bottom the lower the people right at the bottom of a you know of the economic food chain if you like they'll be all right why are we not we don't have the power we don't have the money to do it. well do you think this stands for deficit and? that's one of the key things that we need to look at. that's need to try and look at. that's one of the things that this one of the key things that this report trying at. report was trying to look at. what you was answer to what do you think was answer to that? i think other step one is

we got to get growth mistrusted so wrong her focus so much wrong but her focus growth was actually right. she did it went about it the wrong way. all the wrong policies, everything in the wrong order. and i'm standing how we generate growth without taxes. that is actually key . the next kind actually the key. the next kind of five years and. that's part of five years and. that's part of what she short answer some . of what she short answer some. well this that devolving decision making for the right is part of it ultimate you cannot get around that without some form of improve trading relationship with europe. we've got a trade more and actually you can't get around it and this is something that actually no there's not a huge disparity between. the two main parties on immigration key role in immigration we pay a key role in it we just don't have enough doctors. don't have enough doctors. we don't have enough nurses, don't have enough people to the in the to do the jobs in the in the british at moment, british economy. at the moment, businesses huge labour businesses have huge labour shortages plug those shortages. we need to plug those gaps. businesses and gaps. businesses to grow. and then can a separate then we can have a separate discussion about distribution, generate growth . then there's

generate growth. then there's a separate, genuine kind of part of political discussion about is that tax cuts is more investment of services. but we've of public services. but we've got growth fast. yeah. so got to get growth fast. yeah. so why on all of this why do you stand on all of this growth? course, the key issue growth? of course, the key issue we trust way she put we had less trust in way she put that and foremost that first and foremost obviously just been obviously we've just been heanng obviously we've just been hearing many people already know it too did it? it didn't go too well, did it? but is the answer then? how but what is the answer then? how do achieve growth and also do you achieve growth and also whole north—south divide ? you whole north—south divide? you know, i don't like how it gets played. it's a political football now, isn't it's each passing each new prime minister, everyone desperately trying to get saying what they're get a it's saying what they're to do to help levelling all the different regions with london and with the southeast. but this should been done a very long time ago. many people hold the hands up, actually, and say, when stuff, you closed hands up, actually, and say, when mines, uff, you closed hands up, actually, and say, when mines, you you closed hands up, actually, and say, when mines, you down osed hands up, actually, and say, when mines, you down keyi the coal mines, you down key industries. and a lot of these northern places, you didn't think through. so was think it through. so there was all good closing things all well and good closing things but what step two what came but what was step two what came after it that for me is where a lot of the problems lie and i mean we could do a whole topic on this but i'm going go to a

break a second. i'll talk break in a second. i'll talk about business when i come back. but all about tax incentives. how people like david how do you get people like david to business places to set his business in places hull to in london ? hull as opposed to in london? that leads me nicely into my topic after the break because . i topic after the break because. i want to talk to you about the world of from now . there's new world of from now. there's new legislation through that basically would give us all the right to ask for flexible working on day of our new job. this is a trend isn't it at the moment whether it's full day weeks whether it's kind of working from home, there is a shift. isn't that the world of work needs to evolve and be more flexible? is that how we achieve the growth that we've just been discussing, tell and i'll discussing, you tell me and i'll see in a couple of minute .

hello there. welcome back to

dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight alongside me. i've got the editor of labour and code as well and the entrepreneur david tobias. so you guys have been getting in touch. many of you surprising me . you're not in surprising me. you're not in favour of more devolution. many of you saying so far that the devolution that you have seen has been pretty disastrous. we've been talking as well about where should the centre of power be? spencer said. i was asking, do you think we should move? the lords, for example? i didn't. i said, oh no, if spencer says i'm in york and i don't want any of them up near me, thank you very much. you can keep on, he says down in london. well, like now, are you an employee? you're an office space worker. i've got to say, i do think most of these stories kind of fit that that take that box more that is flexible working stuff because good luck being a i don't know hairdresser whatever sitting hairdresser or whatever sitting there and say, right, i'm going to do my work for four days a week or whatever. but the reason i'm talking about this today is

that going be new that there's going to be new legislation that basically legislation and that basically means would means that staff would be able to request chance to work to request the chance to work from do flexi time, etc. from home, do flexi time, etc. on day one of their new employment . what do you make to employment. what do you make to this at all? i think it's hugely positive. there's a limit to how positive. there's a limit to how positive for employers and positive for employers and positive for employers and positive for workers. actually positive for workers. actually positive for workers. actually positive for the country. i make two points. first relates to something you said actually just before the break around. what happenedin before the break around. what happened in the eighties when the mines shut industry the mines shut and industry closed in the eighties and what happened across the country because seeing something because we're seeing something similar eighties, similar in through the eighties, we huge exit people we had a huge exit of people from labour force into long from the labour force into long term . we're seeing that term sickness. we're seeing that again. that's part that again. that's part of that regional inequality. we're having the labour having people leaving the labour force sickness . force into long term sickness. if work more flexibly , if you can work more flexibly, then there a chance to bring then there is a chance to bring these people back. if you can be remote. second thing where people caring people have caring responsibilities, people responsibilities, where people have in their have other things in their life that they work two that they can maybe work two thirds time, half the thirds of the time, half the time of working time. that sort of working arrangement , hugely positive arrangement, hugely positive because it keeps in touch

because it keeps people in touch with labour market, keeps with the labour market, keeps people taxes, earning a people paying taxes, earning a wage, putting money back into the economy , anything that the local economy, anything that keeps working, earning , keeps people working, earning, paying keeps people working, earning, paying tax has to be a good thing. there's a limit to how much do that. you can't be a copper and you can't be a policeman and be remote working when you're meant to be on the beat. wherever possible, beat. but wherever possible, anything that increases our participation the of participation in the number of people we've paying into the people we've got paying into the economy, a good economy, it's got to be a good thing. they go, you're thing. well they go, you're unemployed, that unemployed, david. is that positive? can come to positive? if people can come to you one and say, hey, you on day one and say, hey, boss, can i only work four days or can i work. i don't know. i'm on the tuesday from erm and wednesday there. is wednesday from there. is that positive. i is absolutely positive. i think is absolutely deluded. i think i think this is an entitled lazy country and it's got to get, it's, it's got to put its sleeves up and get back to work. this is mad. this is look at us. we're the only industry nation that is that is slipping back into the last

century. and why is that with we've been taking care of i put a lot of this this mindset down to how the government reacted dunng to how the government reacted during covid. everyone retired early. and of course, it's really hard if you marry a rich person , you sit in a castle. of person, you sit in a castle. of course you like it, right? if you retire early and someone just feeds you food, you know, via via a delivery moped, of course you like it . via via a delivery moped, of course you like it. i'll tell you this right. course you like it. i'll tell you this right . recently i was you this right. recently i was recruiting somebody and i didn't admit this, but they about about admit this, but they about about a month or two in they were in south america and having a lovely time and they weren't on the same time zone . there's a the same time zone. there's a saying in business and it's the saying in business and it's the saying anyway , if you want saying anyway, if you want something done, ask a busy person. and if you're working three or four days a week here, three, four days a week there, you're busy. i'll tell you're not busy. and i'll tell you, when someone's at or you, when someone's at home or someone's go to the lack someone's able to go to the lack of , i someone's able to go to the lack of, i guess there's something magical that happens when people work together and work hard . and work together and work hard. and if you're if you're working, not

for those two days, not for those three days, it mounts up until you're basically completely useless. and let's take the world cup. the reason we have a successful england team at the moment is because they're working full time, they're working full time, they're dedicated professionals. they're smoke king, they're not the fat smoke king, drunken english footballers. and 40 years ago, these guys are pros, they're dedicated, excel agents, achievement growth in a competitive world. come on, that's strong dedication. all of that's strong dedication. all of thatis that's strong dedication. all of that is possible with all of that is possible with all of that possible with remote teams. is the really the door strikes we're in economically are not actually in i think the fault of the british worker britain has been ill served by its government over the last. i certainly the last the last decade if we can if it if a level of remote working a level of flexibility doesn't mean everyone's rachel the time it doesn't mean you can just choose when you depend on dip out a level flexibility means someone who's got a caring responsibility work. responsibility can work. it means someone who's got a child . the children's responsibilities can work. it

means people who have left the labour market who will because they're long, long term they're on the long, long term or sickness, that or long term sickness, find that they three days a week. they can work three days a week. that's got to be to the benefit. it doesn't mean that we can't have teams get have jobs where teams get together. completely agree. together. i completely agree. actually, get actually, when people get together physically, there's a transformative transform ative there's a transformative there's a transformative fit. that doesn't mean you can't have increased flexibility. it's absolutely key to the world, to the world of work. let's do it. let's work. let's let's do it. let's divide comments. the divide your comments. and the reason sickness is reason we have a sickness is because we have 8 million people on the waiting list for the nhs, which partly down the fact which is partly down to the fact the government has annihilated our our nhs during covid. okay that's for number one. so we need solve that problem need to solve that problem irrespective individual work. irrespective of individual work. now about flexi now let's talk about flexi working at working. first working at home working. first of experience of people of all, my experience of people working home that they are working at home is that they are 40% as useful as people i can see in front me. and see in front of me. and secondly, if i'm going to recruit someone a home, i would rather be recruiting a portuguese, brazilian or an indian person a phd 20% indian person with a phd on 20% of salary somebody of the salary of somebody sitting around in finchley

sitting around in in finchley with pretending to work full time with no qualifications. i think that the question there is how are those people who are remote being managed ? because remote being managed? because it's whether you're there, whether you're there on the shop floor or whether you're at home working, coding, doing floor or whether you're at home working, coding , doing whatever working, coding, doing whatever it's all about how the how these people are being managed . do people are being managed. do they have clear targets? is the management effective? the fact that someone is remote, it does just generate extra challenges, but it also creates extra opportunity to create it creates extra rich new opportunities because people who couldn't necessarily work. so if you can have if you have a business located london , you can located in london, you can recruit people to be who are remote, who living in new remote, who are living in new castle, are in castle, who are living in scotland, in scotland, living in the philippines yes, now philippines. yes, exactly. now that response, response and that response, the response and my point there is this is my point that there is this is going to massive amounts going to lead to massive amounts of employment. and there is there is an aspect of that where someone is recruiting the someone is recruiting in the us can recruit someone living can recruit someone who's living in wiltshire generally when we are when running teams and

working in teams, it's better to have people at least where there's a cultural connection and they're in the same time culture. correct? there's no cultural connection when you're sitting at home with a three year old nibbling your socks. right. and you and the next door neighbour's lawnmower is going on. takes an on. and frankly, it takes an houn on. and frankly, it takes an hour. trip to your hour. you know, a trip to your cattle takes an hour and a half because somebody rings and there's no one to stop you. i tell you, it doesn't work. and we back to work. we need to get back to work. show one amazing fast growing show me one amazing fast growing start business worth billions start up business worth billions where people are working at home. culture clash. i can home. the culture clash. i can show you a whole host of them. i can amazon . oh, they can show you amazon. oh, they total. yeah they didn't start like that. no. no they didn't sell the amazon of amazon tried to implement back to work and found that people were just going to leave. the same happens at google. the same happens amongst are multi billion amongst these are multi billion pound and it is that pound businesses and it is that what they're doing is they're not responding to not they're responding to the evolving world, the evolving world and in the world of work. and in the future, mean, it's not the

future, i mean, it's not the world i've grown up in, world of work i've grown up in, but there will be but in the future there will be robots replacing these lazy people. but there'll be a mix where people, people will, where people, some people will, because different because of their different caring or caring responsibilities or the different may different lifestyle choices, may choose three a choose to work only three days a week. that their choice. and week. that is their choice. and there employers who can there will be employers who can fit in. i agree with you. fit them in. i agree with you. you can't run certain types of teams. you can't do certain types you can't run types of tasks. you can't run big programmes just with everyone kind dipping everyone remote kind of dipping in but i think the in and out. but i think the point of this is to be able to ask for some flexibility. and flexibility doesn't mean entirely. remote flexibility could i'm going could mean on mondays i'm going to do the school run in the office full time all the rest of the week. flexibility means flexibility. it doesn't mean fully remote or fully in the off asking questions. does does asking questions. does this does this if you get a job, this mean that if you get a job, that's how i recruit or finance director for one of my companies. can they turn around and i want and go, you know what, i want flexibility. now and i'm entitled it under law. if entitled to it under the law. if i want to sit at home, you know, taking their dog out or something, i mean, seriously, is

this happen to this what's going to happen to us world of high taxes, us in a world of high taxes, high regulation? we don't have the we don't have the bureaucratic reductions we've been brexit. been promised on the brexit. all we're more tax and we're getting is more tax and now , more rights, now more rights, more rights, more rights, more laziness. i sympathise with the basically the spirit with them quickly. what go to work from. but the key is about defining flexible t to be able to ask for you know, to be able to ask for you know, to be able to ask for you know, to be able to go in the school to be able to go in the school to the school run once a week. that doesn't seem to me a terrible it's like oliver twist that's what it is kind of more please more please. well where do you stand? are you someone who does want more flexibility, who does want more flexibility, who the future who thinks that is the future you heard? way, you just heard? by the way, i was just talking a moment ago about growth and driving growth. when hear what we need when i when i hear what we need is more productive economy. we need more need to grow. we need more businesses. we need more people in work and then i hear kind of, yeah, when you're in that work, you at home and you can you can sit at home and you can do that to me is do this. and that to me is almost a contradiction in terms or i am almost a contradiction in terms ori am i missing the point? almost a contradiction in terms or i am i missing the point? who do with? give me your

do you agree with? give me your thoughts. gbnews.uk is thoughts. gb news gbnews.uk is the you can tweet me at the email or you can tweet me at gb going to take quick gb news. going to take a quick break. when come back, want break. when i come back, i want to you simple question. to ask you a simple question. how prisoners be treated? how should prisoners be treated? tell your thoughts a tell me your thoughts in a couple of minutes .

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry right through till 7:00 tonight, alongside me, i've got the editor of labour on calls, atilla haswell and the entrepreneur david thabiso . good entrepreneur david thabiso. good evening. welcome back to you all. many of you give me your thoughts during that quick break on that last topic about flexible working . simon says flexible working. simon says cheeky so—and—so is that word, but i'll paraphrase his tone, cheeky so—and—so calling people lazy. it means you by the way, david, for a week would be great and flexible. working achieves things, does that guy want

workers like they used to have grafting in the victorian times, paul says you're entrepreneur is exactly right and it's your other guest that's completely deluded . and he's the reason deluded. and he's the reason this country is in the mess that it's in heaven help us, he says. and matt says, show software developers drive industry and they all work from her, many of them fully remote. yes, maths . i them fully remote. yes, maths. i appreciate that. my point to you would be be careful because if you are a software developer working fully, remotely , as matt working fully, remotely, as matt says from, i don't know, high wickham, it is doable. you know that actually you can be a software developer working fully with matt from i don't know, the philippines if you're fully remote , what does it matter remote, what does it matter except the cost to your employer? say be careful what employer? i say be careful what you wish for right. let's employer? i say be careful what you wish for right . let's talk you wish for right. let's talk presidential with the man in charge of country's prisons. charge of the country's prisons. says offenders are more says the offenders are more likely to re—offend if they've been locked up in their cells for 23 hours a day. basically what they're saying is, you know, you need to be rehabilitating putting

rehabilitating people, putting them through classes whatever them through classes or whatever to re—offend . do we to stop them re—offend. do we that? yes . now, the number that? well, yes. now, the number one rule for prison , in my view, one rule for prison, in my view, is to keep the population safe. part of keeping the population safe means that when they get out, they don't re—offend. everything that can be done to rehabilitate and reduce the risk of reoffending , there's of reoffending, there's something about punishment. there's you there's something about, you know , addressing and redressing know, addressing and redressing the balance redress that's there. but from a societal perspective , locking them up for perspective, locking them up for 23 hours a day, that's just going to catch anyone who go stir crazy. and this is just going to drive reoffending and it's just going to cost the taxpayer again because they're going locked again. going to be locked up again. they're to the they're going to have to the police are going to have to arrest them. what about someone who coming out? so if who is never coming out? so if you're fixed life you're on like a fixed life terrorist, you're not coming out anyway. about well, anyway. what about them? well, i mean, let's leave them there. it's a vanishingly small cohort where life. know, where life means life. you know, that couldn't be . but that's that couldn't be. but that's the that's the reality. and again , that's the reality. and again, there is a there is something

around rehabilitation such that if they were, they're not coming out. these guys can just leave them there for 23 hours. okay my view would be, no, there's a bafic view would be, no, there's a basic set of human rights and that you can't you can't just treat humans like that. well, don't even get started on don't even get me started on human prisoners, human rights for prisoners, because people because if these people respected in the respected human rights in the first wouldn't first place, they wouldn't be doing crimes seen doing the crimes that i've seen them a whole lifetime is them get a whole lifetime is murdering, all the rest murdering, raping, all the rest of it. so i always have an issue when people start to me when people start crying to me about as human about prison as human rights, but topic but that's a topic for a different day. david where do you i think each you stand? i think each each prisoner is different and a point the fact as much as we don't, we don't address that. we don't, we don't address that. we don't have enough money in the prison system for prison officers , particularly . and officers, particularly. and that's that's for the sake of society and our safety. that's the first thing i'd change. i'd make a i'd make it economic more viable for people to train in the prison service. after that, i think you need ten or 20% of

your of a sentence should be about revenge , should be about about revenge, should be about punishment . and after that, punishment. and after that, after they you know, the prisoners have really understood that they don't want to lose their liberty. there needs to be an assessment of i mean, we need to be keeping violent prisoners away and locked up. but the bulk of the rest, we really need to rehabilitate and first of all, i'd find a way of making the anomaly viable. so there is a zero cost to their prison sentence, if possible. and i start to, to train them so they come back into the workforce and also the victims of crime need to be recompensed from that as well. we student loans well. we have student loans being repaid think need being repaid. i think we need people who've suffered from crimes to be repaid by some form of tax . going forward. we need of tax. going forward. we need to build a society from here. so what you're saying when these criminals come out of prison, they into the world of work they go into the world of work and know, 10% of their and i don't know, 10% of their income victims, income goes to their victims, something like i mean, something like that. i mean, like i think also like that. and i think that also we just need a policy we just we just need a policy that looks just looks at these

people as individuals. that looks just looks at these people as individuals . and then people as individuals. and then we're going to have a happier, safer society. oh, i think you're quite soft. you, too. you're quiet . i mean, maybe i'm you're quiet. i mean, maybe i'm just a bit harsh . maybe i'm just just a bit harsh. maybe i'm just a bit mean, but i just think, you know what? if you are the kind escort that goes around, kind of escort that goes around, i'm not talking someone i'm not talking about someone that's miles by, you that's stolen miles by, you know, obviously some. yeah let's differentiate if you differentiate a bit. but if you were in there's a reason were in prison, there's a reason for that you to learn for that and you need to learn your lessons and that is your lessons and that for me is something that needs to be deeply you're deeply unpleasant. when you're in shoes, think in this about shoes, think twice about again. anyway, about doing it again. anyway, i've conversation at i've enjoyed the conversation at all. you very much all. david, thank you very much for your company, for your thoughts. thank to you at thoughts. thank you to you at home. next laurence fox. home. up next is laurence fox. laurence what have laurence good evening. what have you evening, you got for us? good evening, james. to say, i james. and i have to say, i agree with you on that issue. anyway, tonight we are talking twitter files free speech, football the royal racists football and the royal racists rumble rumbles on. have i aidan mcgivern from the met office easterly winds have made it feel cold during the last few days, but in the next 24 hours,

northerly winds arrive which will turn things even colder, along with some significant snow in the north of scotland . in the north of scotland. something we keep the easterly at least for the next 12 hours in places. those easterly continuing to bring some showers, rain showers that is into eastern parts of england . into eastern parts of england. the showers in the midlands tending to fade away and the showers just along south showers just along the south coast there. so for kent, for parts cornwall, tending parts of cornwall, also tending to through the night. to fade away through the night. but do continue for but showers do continue for northern scotland . rain and hill northern scotland. rain and hill snow here and clear spells breaking out elsewhere will bnngin breaking out elsewhere will bring in places at such a frost, especially for northern ireland, into northern the northern england, north wales , east england, north wales, east anglia. but a bright start where we get a frost away from the frosty areas , still some cloud frosty areas, still some cloud about for southern parts of the uk and more especially the east and the far north. here they'll continue to be showers , but this continue to be showers, but this time the showers brought by an increasing northerly wind . as increasing northerly wind. as a result, it's going to feel cold on tuesday afternoon . on tuesday afternoon. temperatures on the thermometer, seven or eight in the south,

four or five in the north. but take off a few degrees for it, feel like in the wind, more like the low to mid single figures and it turns even colder on tuesday nights by midnight, the showers increasingly falling as snow is all levels for northern scotland. the snow really building up here tuesday building up here on tuesday night into wednesday. those night and into wednesday. those will be showers into the east of england, parts of northern ireland see those ireland where we see those showers and going, showers coming and going, perhaps some icy patches as we start wednesday. a start of wednesday. certainly a widespread western widespread frost across western england, england, england, northern england, southern scotland and wales, minus three, minus four celsius in places . a minus three, minus four celsius in places. a bright start in in places. but a bright start in these locations . plenty these locations. plenty of sunshine the on sunshine through the day on wednesday . areas of cloud and wednesday. areas of cloud and showers affecting north sea coasts. , coasts. irish sea coast, northern ireland. these will consist of rain and hills. now the snow across northern scotland building up to scotland really building up 2 to 5 centimetres levels , 5 5 centimetres at lower levels, 5 to centimetres over the hills .

hello it's me again, laurence fox stepping in for nigel for one week. only well, until the next time on me. anyway, tonight i've got view of free speech, debate. my absolute favourite, the royal race row rumbles on an england football legend on the back of a fantastic win in the world cup and on talking points. commissioner has dedicated his life to right the wrongs of this world. but first, the news would touch on centrist . laurens. touch on centrist. laurens. thank you. this is the latest from the gb newsroom. the rmt has announced an extra strike on network rail from christmas eve until 6 am. on the 27th of december next week, the strikes