good afternoon and welcome to you are watching common sense with me the reverend calvin robinson. on your tv online and on your digital radio . this show on your digital radio. this show is all about championing sense. and today we will be discussing the supreme court ruling on zones around abortion clinics . zones around abortion clinics. how easy it is for young people to discuss their faith and now that labour is turning on the unions is this the beginning of the end, the strike action? first is a check on those news headunes first is a check on those news

headlines with . calvin thank headlines with. calvin thank you.the headlines with. calvin thank you. the top story today, the jersey authorities say the recovery operation following yesterday's explosion will take weeks, not days . at least three weeks, not days. at least three people were killed when a blast pred people were killed when a blast ripped a block of flats in antalya . no survivors have been antalya. no survivors have been found and 12 are still thought be missing. the chief of joseph robyn smith says sadly he's expecting more fatalities . we expecting more fatalities. we are not going to here for days. we are likely to be here weeks andifs we are likely to be here weeks and it's important that i make that clear . this morning spoke that clear. this morning spoke to the family liaison coordinator who described to me the feelings of those families and. i am really, really keen to ensure that everybody properly the emotions that they are currently going going through . currently going going through. so this is not going to happen quickly. it's going to happen

carefully and it's going to happen sensitively . meanwhile, happen sensitively. meanwhile, the authorities in scotland , a the authorities in scotland, a libyan man accused of making the bomb in the lockerbie ad disaster, is now in us. bomb in the lockerbie ad disaster, is now in us . abu disaster, is now in us. abu aguila is believed to be the third conspirator of the terror attack on pan am flight one, two, three. in 1988. a spokesman for the crown office says . it for the crown office says. it will do what it can to bring who acted with masood justice . the acted with masood justice. the nurses union has offered to press pause on strike action if the government to hold talks on pay - the government to hold talks on pay . the royal college of pay. the royal college of nursing has accused the health secretary of failing to , secretary of failing to, negotiate properly and thousands of members are now planning walk out on the 15th and the 20th of december. but writing in the sun, steve barclay warned action will cause significant risk to patients, adding the door remained for further talks. but

didn't say whether pay could be part of that discussion . part of that discussion. meanwhile, postal workers staging fresh strikes once again today. the communication workers union. the action could risk a christmas meltdown . more strikes christmas meltdown. more strikes are planned over the next couple of weeks which the union has warned will create a huge backlog of post. royal mail says . the money allocated to the pay deal could be eaten away by the cost of a strike action. meanwhile, tens of thousands of soldiers are preparing stand in for public sector workers , for public sector workers, including border force andy mayer agency services staff when they walk the job this winter. speaking to gb news lord ken clarke said bringing in the army to cover striking ambulance members when he was health secretary didn't go down well with voters . this time was when with voters. this time was when i had a seven month ambulance strike and we gave country a much better ambulance service where the strike was effective by bringing in the army. but that was hugely unpopular with the public and in can watch the

full interview on gloria meets every sunday at 6 pm. that's on at six tonight. now colts snap, which has been causing travel disruption, the uk is expected to continue throughout the coming week as snow and ice sweep parts of the uk. the met office says overnight frost expected to last until at least next friday. a yellow warning for snow and ice is in place for parts of scotland, wales and south western england . now in south western england. now in a world first, a teenager from is now cancer free. after taking part in experimental new treatment . 13 year old alissa treatment. 13 year old alissa who had leukaemia , was given a who had leukaemia, was given a pre manufactured from a healthy donor which were then modified to kill cancerous t cells . 28 to kill cancerous t cells. 28 days after being given the treatment , she's now days after being given the treatment, she's now in remission. doctors at great ormond street hospital. hope it be offered to children early . be offered to children early. their treatment ultimately giving them the chance of a

better future future . harry kane better future future. harry kane says he takes for england's lost last night in the world cup finals quarter finals. the captain says , he's gutted and captain says, he's gutted and it'll take some time to get over losing to france one. meanwhile, gareth says he needs time to decide whether he has the energy to as england manager. you're up to as england manager. you're up to date on gb news more news as it happens. more from kalvin . it happens. more from kalvin. hello and welcome . this is the hello and welcome. this is the common sense crusade with me, the reverend calvin robinson . the reverend calvin robinson. here is what's coming up this afternoon . a supreme court afternoon. a supreme court ruling has paved the way for new laws setting up safe access zones outside abortion clinics in scotland. the unanimous

judgement in new case highest court also means that northern ireland assembly can proceed with abortion services. bill should the government be able to dictate where we can and cannot pray. despite england's defeats last night, one of the standout performances young arsenal star bukayo saka, who previously spoke out earlier in the week about his daily christian routine reading his bible every night and how the presence of god helps him during matches. but i want to ask how is it for younger people in ever growing secular society discuss their faith and wes streeting the shadow health secretary? so he's must reform or as country braces for a wave of strikes as vows war on hospital health unions. but with labour now seemingly turning on the unions, is it the beginning of the end for strike action and? of course you can join in any of our discussions, emailing gp views at gbnews.uk or by tweeting at gp news

dashboard . dashboard. an antagonist will argue that the church and state should be separate, whilst the church should moral leadership for the state to avoid immoral laws and promote compassion . in an promote compassion. in an otherwise sterile environment , otherwise sterile environment, the aim is to avoid state overreach, which can happen when . the state makes decisions without a moral compass. unfortunately there have been a couple of cases this week that have broken my heart, and i wanted to share them with you. as a matter of warning. in canada, there is what i would describe as evil doctor assisted suicide and euthanasia . one can suicide and euthanasia. one can assume this comes from a perspective that people should be able to their suffering. be able to end their suffering. it undoubtably well intentioned , however, without a clear moral defined in absolute values . i defined in absolute values. i think life becomes abstract . the think life becomes abstract. the value of a person can be expressed and without empathy .

expressed and without empathy. for example, this week we heard reports of a former paralympian , a retired canadian corporal who struggles to get up and down her stairs. she explained how she had to climb the stairs on her bum, pulling the wheelchair along with her. she says canadian veteran support told her if things are hard. you we can assist you with the aid die. but veteran support says there's no proof the conversation ever happening. the christian case would be all human life is sacred and we must do all we can to support in their suffering and let them know that they are not alone in their suffering. in my view, to offer to end someone's life as an is just callous. it's an empty morality and. i would say it's quite wicked . since implementing wicked. since implementing medical assistance in dying canada is not what euthanizing 10,000 thousand of its citizens yean 10,000 thousand of its citizens year, but 10,000 people every year, but 10,000 people every year who i believe have been shown love instead of an empty, pragmatic approach to human life

. in new zealand, where this week of a baby in need of an operation, his parents expressed concern about the potential implications of blood contaminate it with my rene through the covid job and doctors and the new zealand government took guardianship of the baby and went through with a blood transfusion with vaccinated against the parents wishes. in my opinion , ardern wishes. in my opinion, ardern has essentially taken away the parent's rights and responsibilities for a political agenda. responsibilities for a political agenda . it's a very slippery agenda. it's a very slippery slope to totally terrorism when children belong to the state and parents are removed from their care giving responsibilities. let this be a warning to us. we cannot. this happen here in the uk. i think the church needs to get its act together and to provide a moral compass to the state. otherwise, what's the point in having lords point in having a lords spiritual ? it seems to me the spiritual? it seems to me the bishops in the house of are currently more interested declaring the government's immigration inhumane than they are protecting the sanctity of life .

life. the uk supreme court has ruled that the northern ireland assembly can't legislate to create buffer zones around abortion clinics to protect both women who use the clinics and their staff. the ruling will also allow the creation of such zones outside abortion clinics in scotland with women's health minister mary todd saying that legislation would be brought to the scottish parliament soon as possible . to give their thoughts possible. to give their thoughts on this story . as the ceo of the on this story. as the ceo of the alliance of pro—life students and freelance journalist hilary freeman. hilary you forjoining freeman. hilary you for joining us in the studio today. freeman. hilary you for joining us in the studio today . and also us in the studio today. and also with us is madeline page. thank you very much for joining us to hilary. do you welcome the supreme judge ruling? yes, i do. i think it's absolutely the right decision . people should right decision. people should not be harassed . they're going not be harassed. they're going to make a very difficult and

sensitive decision and very personal decision. and it should something that they are able to do without bothered by people who have views that they may not share. and it's a personal medical thing . if you were going medical thing. if you were going to the doctor to sort out your haemorrhoids . you wouldn't haemorrhoids. you wouldn't expect somebody outside to tell you what to do about it. and it's just nothing to do with anybody else. none of that business. it has to have a say in this. madeline, is it about people telling people what to do with their lives or is it something deeper than that. it's definitely deeper. definitely something deeper. there's person there's another human person that we're talking about that a pregnancy human being pregnancy is a human being inside the mother and abortion and that pregnancy and. the life of that child. and when we think of that child. and when we think of these these buffer zones , of these these buffer zones, these censorship zones, we actually already have laws in place to against harassment. those laws already exist. and if there have been clear examples of , women there have been clear examples of, women doing this, then our laws would have already been

implemented to stop them. but that hasn't happened. and whenever we ask people who say they pro—choice provide that they are pro—choice provide that evidence, unable to. so evidence, they unable to. so actually what we're doing is far overreaching and telling people they can't pray and they can't offer support to women who need it when they're going into those clinics. the point. clinics. so that's the point. there is it's not just an there is and it's not just an anti protest law is an anti prayer law and we are a country founded on the freedom of worship. if we're saying worship. and if we're saying people cannot the vicinity people cannot pray the vicinity of clinics, is that not of these clinics, is that not going over the mark? going over the over the mark? i think prayer be also think prayer should be also a very personal thing you very personal thing that you should in the privacy should do in your in the privacy of your own your own of your own or in your own church or or mosque or whatever it you have faith. you it is that you have faith. you belong faith. prayer does not belong to faith. prayer does not belong to faith. prayer does not belong an abortion belong outside an abortion clinic where people don't share your you may not, in your your faith. you may not, in your god are going to make a choice that might be incredibly difficult them. i argue with difficult for them. i argue with your point that it's human being, a baby . it's not a baby. being, a baby. it's not a baby. it's a cluster cells at the stage that most women have an abortion and it's about their

lives not about the not about the unborn. okay. we'll get back to that because. that's a that's incorrect. and that's quite callous but we'll talk callous to say. but we'll talk about prayer and about the prayer first and foremost, to me foremost, because it seems to me you're that people you're suggesting that people should only be able to pray in their in that church. their home or in that church. are you suggesting we should not have worship in this have freedom of worship in this country? freedom country? no, we can have freedom of worship. shouldn't on of worship. we shouldn't on other if you to other people. so if you say to me, going to pray for you, me, i'm going to pray for you, then you very much, then i say, thank you very much, but i, i want you to pray for me because i don't share belief in god.soif because i don't share belief in god. so if it makes sure that i will praying later on my, will be praying later on my, share vicinity of you as share in the vicinity of you as you that's wrong. no, no, you say, that's wrong. no, no, not at all. not at all. but if you i am praying for you. you to me, i am praying for you. i think what you're doing is wrong. then i would find that offensive. you to offensive. but if you said to me, like to i say, me, i'd like to pray, i say, fine that's what i was brought up in. a religious. i i'm no longer i totally longer religious. i totally respect people who are religious. but i don't believe that should allowed to that they should be allowed to impose onto me. impose their beliefs onto me. i want but want to other people, but i don't it as an imposition. i don't see it as an imposition. i don't see it as an imposition. i don't prayer as an

don't see prayer as an imposition. if someone doesn't believe in prayer, then surely it yeah, i it doesn't affect them. yeah, i find quite odd. it's almost find it quite odd. it's almost sounding censor sounding like you're to censor my i to think my thoughts. so if i to think well of somebody and for me an act of doing that might be through prayer. i'm told you can't stop can't think that. and then stop monitoring censoring monitoring and censoring someone's thoughts and silent prayer. i don't understand how that's an imposition i don't understand that's offensive understand how that's offensive . me, it sounds like . and to me, it sounds like hillary, you're actually saying . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer 're actually saying . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer .�*e actually saying . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer . youtually saying . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer . you you.y saying . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer . you you sayingg . and to me, it sounds like hilleprayer . you you saying you that prayer. you you saying you advocate for freedom of worship. but that's within very strict sort boundaries of being in sort of boundaries of being in your home or your church. but i think praying silently on the street or in other situations is perfectly acceptable. can we to the reason why people are praying? because it seems to me that this argument is looking from two different perspectives. people seem to think that prayer is offensive. it's a it's a is an offensive. it's a it's a weapon that people using. weapon that people are using. that's not going on, is weapon that people are using. thiwhy ot going on, is weapon that people are using. thiwhy would going on, is weapon that people are using. thiwhy would you oing on, is weapon that people are using. thiwhy would you say| on, is weapon that people are using. thiwhy would you say people are it? why would you say people are praying first place? no, praying in the first place? no, i and protect the i it's to try and protect the unborn to protect those who are

being who are being killed in the and for the the womb. and also for the women, well. aren't women, well. who aren't receiving they receiving support that they should outside those should be getting outside those abortion clinics. i've been outside clinic. i've outside an abortion clinic. i've offered women assistance, and they say relieved hear they often say relieved to hear that are other that actually, there are other opfions that actually, there are other options we provide options that we can provide them with we provide with housing. we can provide them financial support, them with financial support, which provided by the which is not provided by the state which is being state and which is not being provided pro—choicerswho provided by pro—choicers who claim . but from claim to be pro—choice. but from what seen, actually what i've seen, it actually seems pro abortion and seems to be pro abortion and they have one very clear agenda . and do seem to have shifted . and we do seem to have shifted hillary from pro—choice to pro—abortion . we do see people pro—abortion. we do see people celebrating the fact that they are ending another life now. and celebrating the fact that they are doiing another life now. and celebrating the fact that they are do you another life now. and celebrating the fact that they are do you defined life now. and celebrating the fact that they are do you defined ite now. and celebrating the fact that they are do you defined it . now. and celebrating the fact that they are do you defined it . am. and celebrating the fact that they are do you defined it . a clumpi you do you defined it. a clump of cells out day, i think of cells out day, which i think is a very inhumane way of describing an unborn. can we get, of all, once before get, first of all, once before we in debate to we progressed in this debate to the agreeing that we're the point of agreeing that we're talking ending life talking about ending of life ending we're ending human life? no, we're talking ending a potential talking about ending a potential life, not human life. you don't become at that stage. become human at that stage. wendy, you become wendy, when you say you become human, well way that human, then. well the way that i've brought up and the way i've been brought up and the way that i see it, you become human

, when born . and , really, when you're born. and so 30 seconds before you acceptable point to kill that non—human if the mother's life if the mother's life is a choice between the mother and, the baby. yes, it is not a choice. if the mother's life is not in dangen if the mother's life is not in danger, the mother is perfectly healthy the baby is perfectly healthy. and 30 seconds healthy. and it's 30 seconds before obviously suddenly before birth. obviously suddenly goes, goodness , is that goes, oh, my goodness, is that when the clock is late term abortion? you have to go, ladies. the is a lot of this is obvious that's the problem. we have to draw a line somewhere and we they're not and if we say if they're not a human being until the moment we're born, not obvious we're born, it's not obvious because with drawing is because the line with drawing is birth conception. birth rather than conception. and issue that and is this not the issue that we're facing? because the important the mother. important thing is the mother. it's mother's life, both are it's the mother's life, both are important and we're not. no, i want to know because i want to i want to know because i want to i want to know because i want to i want to reframe hillary, want to reframe this, hillary, because talking because we're not just talking about mother's life and about the mother's life and we're talking about in we're not just talking about in situations mother's situations where the mother's life risk. we have a 10 life is at risk. we have a 10 million abortions this million abortions since this legislation in legislation came into play in the have over 200,000 the uk. we have over 200,000 abortions every single year. they not to the

they are not down to the mother's life at risk. mother's life being at risk. madeline, you talk to us madeline, can you talk to us about some of the cases that the women that you've spoken to that have through this? i've have been through this? i've experienced they have been through this? i've expertoldzd they have been through this? i've expertold about they have been through this? i've expertold about other they have been through this? i've expertold about other optionshey want told about other options that available. yes, that are available. yes, absolutely. so absolutely. i mean, we have so many who, example, have many who, for example, have received diagnosis of for received a diagnosis of down for that seems to that child. and that's seems to be death sentence for those be a death sentence for those children. don't children. and the parents don't understand what that diagnosis means therefore think that means and therefore think that actually killing actually better off by killing that trying to use the that than by trying to use the support that's available to still give that child a really beautiful and strange to me beautiful and it's strange to me because when somebody has a disability outside of the womb we very celebrate them. we we very much celebrate them. we want to help them. we see them as who is vulnerable, as somebody who is vulnerable, who actually needs more protection. there's protection. but there's something something odd happens when we can't that when perhaps we can't see that person that inside the womb person and that inside the womb when actually it doesn't. before i back, talk about hilary, i get back, talk about hilary, can you just explain to people who not know the who might not know the conditions under for conditions under the law for termination of syndrome babies? yes, way yes, it's all the way up to birth. so it's for any reason to 24 weeks. and then after 24

weeks, if your child has a disability which could include down's syndrome, it could include a cleft lip clubfoot , include a cleft lip clubfoot, then that child can be aborted . then that child can be aborted. any point up to that? so i'll put that back to you, hilary. if we're talking about, baby, where the mother's life is not risk whatsoever and we're talking about baby's life, should about that baby's life, should that protected if that baby's life be protected if they cleft palate, if they have a cleft palate, if they have a cleft palate, if they have a cleft palate, if they have something that may be seen as disability? well had a slip. i had have slip. i had to have a termination. weeks of my termination. 24 weeks of my child who desperately wanted have who i desperately loved, who had a severe disability . it who had a severe disability. it was i was told was almost certainly going to die either before birth or shortly afterwards in terrible pain with all kinds of problems and. i chose to have a termination not because i didn't want to have the baby, not because i didn't think life is valuable, but think her life is valuable, but because protecting. i because i was protecting. i i was doing what was best for her that she have. she would suffer basically. and was not what i wanted to do. so it's not clear that it's just because you it's just about parents. you think

that, oh, i can't cope with a disabled child. there are all kinds of variants of disability and children i don't want i don't in bringing a child into the world that going to the world that is going to suffer but even i don't suffer but even if i don't i don't i personally i can't say because i've not been in that situation. if i'd had a baby that's down's or a cleft palate, what would have done? i'd like to think that i wouldn't have aborted for those conditions , aborted for those conditions, but stand , by the rights but i still stand, by the rights of every woman and every every couple who are having a baby to try to make the choice and. if you don't think that you're going to be able to cope with a baby with a with a cleft palate or with down's, it should be your choice because bringing a child into the world, you don't want that. you can't cope with is not is not right for anyone and particularly the child . i and particularly the child. i want that back to want to bring that back to madeleine the framing, madeleine because the framing, that if that conversation there is if you feel that you you don't feel that you personally with your you don't feel that you pers(child with your you don't feel that you pers(child having with your you don't feel that you pers(child having a with your you don't feel that you pers(child having a certain>ur your child having a certain disability is that should disability is that you should have on whether that have a choice on whether that child lives or dies. struggle child lives or dies. i struggle with that. i'm going put

with that. so i'm going to put this to kind of this to you to kind of articulate better way of articulate a better way of framing i think framing this. i mean i think i would extend that then to a toddler. let's say that i have a two year old. know what? two year old. and you know what? it's stressful. i've had it's really stressful. i've had absolutely sleep and i'm not absolutely no sleep and i'm not sure i want to have this child anymore. what if we're following logic? saying that logic? then we're saying that i should allowed kill that should be allowed to kill that two old because i don't two year old because i don't want no, that's not what i want it. no, that's not what i was saying. you said if someone does not want have child does not want to have a child with or at some with a disability or at some point that child suffering, okay . slightly different from you can't nobody is advocating that you kill a two year old child. if you can't cope with a child and that's who. and you get help. and the child is taken into care. but your what you were about before, about were talking about before, about this idealised world where people are nice to disabled people are nice to disabled people is rubbish. disabled people is rubbish. disabled people are more likely to be victims of abuse than anybody in society. okay, so let's take you to a baby killer instead then. it's disgusting . to a baby killer instead then. it's disgusting. i'm. no, no, no. i'm going kill them instead,

of course. no, that's what what i'm saying is that telling women that it's okay, you can have this baby that's disabled because we're going to help you. that happen. then we that doesn't happen. and then we should better health. should provide better health. and we should. and yes, we should. but i'm going thank hilary. i'm going to thank you, hilary. i'm going to thank you, hilary. i'm going leave it there. we going have to leave it there. we should not argue about the choice kill people. hilary choice to kill people. hilary freeman, journalist. choice to kill people. hilary freemadeline journalist. choice to kill people. hilary freemadeline page,journalist. choice to kill people. hilary free madeline page, ceo alist. choice to kill people. hilary free madeline page, ceo of st. i'm madeline page, ceo of alliance pro—life students. i'm madeline page, ceo of allian

this evening. some possible snow showers over high ground, clear skies further west, but patchy, freezing fog in the east and a widespread a band of wintry showers in the southeast bringing some snow. showers in the southeast bringing some snow . and later bringing some snow. and later elsewhere, a widespread frost and patchy freezing once again dry with mostly clear skies . dry with mostly clear skies. this evening in south wales, a few wintry showers possible of western coast , few wintry showers possible of western coast, light winds and a widespread frost expected there too, staying mostly dry across the later, although a few wintry are possible in the south. clearer skies further north, more widespread frost again, patchy mist and freezing fog in the evening remaining dry across much of northern, although a few isolated wintry are possible at times. temperatures below freezing . patchy. moscow freezing. patchy. moscow freezing. patchy. moscow freezing fog once again at a cold evening in scotland where the continued risk of and snow clear skies further south for widespread frost. temperatures dropping quickly tonight and staying dry for of northern ireland this evening . wintry

ireland this evening. wintry showers continuing to affect and eastern coasts. clear skies west and a dry night for the entire uk . showers confined to the uk. showers confined to the coasts . frost and freezing fog coasts. frost and freezing fog by monday morning. and that's today's very cold weather is shaping up for you today.

welcome back to the common sense crusade on gb news on tv, online and on your wireless england and arsenal footballer bukayo saka has talked about the importance of his christian and what it plays in his career and how reading the bible every night is a feeling god's presence helps give him confidence. saka has

never been shy about discussing his christian and during the press conference following victory over senegal, he that he has a daily christian ritual that helps him to fend off anxiety ahead of matches. but easy is it for young christians talk about their faith. to answer that question. i'm joined by research fellow at the bow group and young christian lukman. benjamin thank you for joining us in the studio today on a sunday. have you been to muscle already? no. no. later okay. you do tell us about your faith journey. well, we're talking about how hard for young people to talk about faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink to talk about faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink a» talk about faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink a lotlk about faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink a lot ofabout faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink a lot of the |t faith. and talking about how hard for young pthink a lot of the time h. and talking about how hard for young pthink a lot of the time people i think a lot of the time people don't want to talk it don't want to talk about it cause controversial or it's cause it's controversial or it's that, caused a of that, you know, caused a lot of debate and there's a lot of issues which are linked to politics, like things like abortion, if abortion, what whatnot. and if you christian, what do abortion, what whatnot. and if you think christian, what do abortion, what whatnot. and if you think aboutristian, what do abortion, what whatnot. and if you think about abortion hat do abortion, what whatnot. and if you think about abortion or: do abortion, what whatnot. and if you think about abortion or what do you think about this sort of issue? and can get sort of issue? and it can get sort of confrontational. lot confrontational. a lot of people, think, lack people, i think, lack the confidence to back it up. i think saka did it in a right way. he said it's a personal thing. it helps gives me

thing. it helps me it gives me comfort. keeps stability in comfort. it keeps stability in my didn't into the my life. he didn't get into the controversial stuff. he wasn't making it political. he just said, what do is how said, this is what i do is how it helps and think that's it helps me. and i think that's the right way about how the right way to about it. how doesit you? the right way to about it. how does it you? how does faith does it help you? how does faith help me? well a plus a reflection you to reflect reflection causes you to reflect on . it gives you the on yourself. it gives you the opportunity to take stock . and, opportunity to take stock. and, you know, prayer is a great form of reflection. it's as a as of reflection. and it's as a as a way of taking some of things in your life every night and putting that time aside. sort of. dietrich bonhoeffer referred to it as breathing alongside god , which is, i think, one of the best ways of looking at it. but it's an important thing to have in your and i think, you know, a lot of people struggle around the question about does god exist god exist. but a lot exist, god not exist. but a lot of the time the practise of faith, if get away from those sorts of philosophical questions, much more about sorts of philosophical que lifestyle much more about sorts of philosophical que lifestyle and :h more about sorts of philosophical que lifestyle and whatnot. bout sorts of philosophical que lifestyle and whatnot. sort the lifestyle and whatnot. so i would would to people would would suggest to people who with and i want who do struggle with and i want to say fourth to actually practise the religion and see

the change that makes in their life rather than approaching it as an entirely rationalistic or or philosophical pursuit . i or philosophical pursuit. i imagine saka would have got a lot of support a lot of praise for this, but also a lot of vitriol in response . do you talk vitriol in response. do you talk to people about your faith. i it well, it depends really. i think to some people, you know to to some people, you know not to talk because you talk to about it because you know that they're so adamantly against it that just going against it that it's just going to and you know to cause confer and you know that they're going to sort that they're not going to sort of minds. but of change their minds. but i will admit, sometimes do like will admit, sometimes i do like to rile them up a little bit . to rile them up a little bit. you know, you can't you can't avoid it sometimes certain avoid it sometimes in certain situations . but i think it's it situations. but i think it's it really depends who a lot of people find really appreciate it because they just want to know they've got no points of reference their life . reference in their own life. they curious about, you they are very curious about, you know you believe what know. why do you believe what you and what impact you believe? and what impact does that have on your life? and when you talk to people, you find they're actually a lot more reasonable than you would. you could might could be you know, you might think and the sort of think would be. and the sort of the conflict you would the conflict that you would

expect shy away from expect that you shy away from ten be quite ten actually used to be quite civil. so we need more public civil. so do we need more public figures like to speak out and being encouraging to other people? it was people? i think it was refreshing the refreshing to see saka on the world at world cup talking world at the world cup talking about instead of just and about faith instead of just and we know that what the england team has received a lot of criticism or a lot of support for political gestures, for that political gestures, taking knee and on and so taking knee and so on and so forth. and if it's you to forth. and if it's for you to take the knee and do your one love armbands, the rest of love armbands, all the rest of it was in all the cases. and talk about your faith and of course we the latest census course we have the latest census data shows that less data which shows that less than half are now half of brits are now identifying as christians. do you something to you think there's something to play you think there's something to play got play on this? well, we've got we've secularism and we've had rampant secularism and secularisation in this country for the past years. for the past 50 or so years. people declining attendance people are declining attendance to church and practise of the faith. i think comes to faith. but i think that comes to down of down an abrogation of application of duty from the church in this country. you look and there's no confidence in the theology they confidence in theology that they confidence in a doctrine. priests and vicars nowadays talk more about change and about god from the pulpit.

and i think people don't go to church because what they at church because what they at church really christian church isn't really christian religion. they get this sort of humanistic attempt to, pander to people because . they wrongfully people because. they wrongfully think the people don't religion anymore. they give them this nonsense , which is no from what nonsense, which is no from what you would hear from a politician . right. and do you think this has something to do with why people are reaching out to all these extremist groups, like just extinction just stop all extinction rebellion, etc? but then rebellion, blm, etc? but then within religion within the framework of religion as lot of fringe as well, there's lot of fringe groups are far more, you groups that are far more, you know, they growing whereas the conventional mainstream church is in decline. conventional mainstream church is in decline . and so you see is in decline. and so you see organisations like the aspects have more priests in training than the actual church and it's a small within the church. and so have that sort of thing where the actual mainstream is lacks conviction or confidence actually talk about christianity anymore . and i think that's anymore. and i think that's really what's going on is that there's no you know, it's not that people have stopped believing in god, that they've stopped religion.

stopped wanting religion. it's that provide that religion doesn't provide what supposed anymore. what it's supposed to anymore. so point of some so what's the point of some church leaders are listening to that? you very much. that? thank you very much. that's fellow at, the that's research fellow at, the bow group and young christian benjamin you are with benjamin lock name you are with gb on tv, online and on gb news on tv, online and on your and wes streeting your wireless and wes streeting the health says the shadow health secretary says the shadow health secretary says the reform or die as the the nhs reform or die as the country braces for a wave of strikes as he vows war on hostile health unions. but with labour now seemingly turning on the unions , it's is this the the unions, it's is this the beginning of the end for strike action. now is it time for news headlines. we have polly . headlines. we have polly. kelvin. thank you . story today, kelvin. thank you. story today, the jersey authorities , the the jersey authorities, the recovery operation following explosion will take weeks , not explosion will take weeks, not days. at least three people were killed when a blast ripped through a block of flats in st hellier. no survivors have been and 12 are still thought to be missing. the chief of jersey police , robin smith, says sadly police, robin smith, says sadly more fatality are expected .

more fatality are expected. authorities in scotland say a libyan man accused of making the bomb in the lockerbie disaster is now in us. custody . abu is now in us. custody. abu aguila masood , believed to be aguila masood, believed to be the third conspirator of the terrorist on pan am flight one, two, three in 1988. a spokesman for the crown office says it will do what it can to bring those who acted with masood to justice. the nurses union has offered to press pause on strike action if the government agrees to hold on pay. the royal college of nursing has accused the health secretary failing to negotiate properly and tens of thousands of members now planning to walk out on the 15th and 20th of december. writing the sun, steve barclay warned the sun, steve barclay warned the actual significant risk to patients, adding the door remained open for further talks and.the remained open for further talks and. the cold snap, which has been causing travel, is expected to continue the week as snow and ice sweeps across parts of the uk . the met office says uk. the met office says overnight frost is expected to

last until at least friday. a yellow for snow and ice is in place for . parts of scotland, place for. parts of scotland, wales as well as south england . wales as well as south england. you're up to date on tv, online , dab plus radio. you with gb news. calvin's here in just a moment .

welcome back to the common sense on gb news on tv and on your wireless shadow health secretary west streeting says the labour party will take hostile health unions on for holding back the nhs if it wins the next general election. it marks a significant change in tone from the party which heavily relies upon unions support. stretching also said that the nhs was a service , not that the nhs was a service, not a shrine, and it needed to

reform or die . his comments come reform or die. his comments come as the country braces a wave of strikes by nurses and paramedic medics. joining now to discuss this is former labour mp stephen pound and political commentator emma webb. thank you both for me in the studio on a sunday. appreciate that. stephen, we'll start with you. these wards are quite extraordinary for a labour politician be making. well, let's actually drill down let's actually just drill down little not saying that little bit. he's not saying that trade are hostile like trade unions are hostile like a union. the british medical association , which is not only association, which is not only not affiliated , the labour not affiliated, the labour party, but is actually been unhelpful when . it comes to unhelpful when. it comes to things like their conference week where they decided to only work between nine five. so work between nine and five. so what saying, the what he's saying, i think the really, important thing, really, really important thing, you know, they say idealism increases further. from increases further. you are from the i think people the problem. and i think people are idealistic about the nhs. the nhs both into this the nhs and i both into this world. in july 1948 and one of us is actually both affected by the condition of this. but within five years, in 1953, you had brian, april smith and

richard titmus produced, this thing called the gilbert report, which said, look, basically the nhs exists because women don't work , so they look after people work, so they look after people . men leave school at 15 work till it's a 65, die when they're 75. they also recommended annual expenditure on the nhs wait for i t £30 million. they also it £30 million. they also pointed out that the tripartite of the nhs just didn't work. the idea of primary care, secondary care and, social continuing care in three separate pots. so what wes streeting is saying is the bma actually does need to sort of wake up and realise that there is an here but above there is an issue here but above all much more importantly the whole realises cannot whole country realises we cannot deify . they say that the english deify. they say that the english are a religious people, are not a religious people, although disproves although this panel disproves that. although this panel disproves that . and so we've invented the that. and so we've invented the nhs know. instead, i think the nhs know. instead, i think the nhs huge changes without a shadow it going to stop having competing groups . and i think competing groups. and i think that's where we're going, which are try to actually parlay this into it. wes streeting attacks the ain't what he's the unions. that ain't what he's . well, that gives us some extra context for so thank you.

context for that. so thank you. i thought this labour becoming a sound mean. i thought this was great like a cheap. great but it seems like a cheap. it's easy target. it's an easy target. well i mean, i believe i'm saying mean, i can't believe i'm saying this, wes streeting is this, but wes streeting is right, he even. even if he right, isn't he even. even if he finished on particular issue, on this particular obviously want to win the next election . this to win the next election. this is clearly cynical . it is far is clearly cynical. it is far removed from the problem . sure. removed from the problem. sure. if labour were in power , they if labour were in power, they would not be. they would be talking the maybe for a little while, but certainly won't be walking walk seen walking the walk they've seen already conservative party already the conservative party have were elected on certain promises , then have managed to promises, then have managed to mostly get away with not fulfilling any of them and with being a completely different party to the one that was elected by the british people. so no doubt that if labour actually successful in winning the election, a lot of the next election, that a lot of this wouldn't reflected this wouldn't be reflected in the that would govern the way that they would govern the way that they would govern the that's it is the country. that's it is a valuable contribution because he's way he's absolutely right in the way that worded it is perfect that he's worded it is perfect that he's worded it is perfect that should a not that we should have a not a

shnne that we should have a not a shrine and all of this news shrine and all of this the news around these nurses striking ambulance staff paramedics strike saying this is going to cost people their lives and wes streeting is absolutely right. i get a can't believe i'm saying absolutely that the british people have made so many sacrifices for the nhs to protect nhs and now when the british people need the nhs when the backlog is huge, when there are people suffering, lack of access to cancer care and cancer treatment, even diagnosis, and when we're going into one of the penods when we're going into one of the periods where the nhs always historically suffers the most because of the cold winter penod. because of the cold winter period . also during the cost of period. also during the cost of living crisis . so even more old living crisis. so even more old people who are going to need those service is ambulance services saying that they're not necessarily going to actually and get old pick up old people if . they fall over what they're if. they fall over what they're doing right now is frankly immoral . and so i think that wes immoral. and so i think that wes streeting is absolutely on the money in the way that he's described this. do need to described this. we do need to stop being so misty eyed the nhs

and we need we it does it does. it needs to reform or die because at the moment what we have is a universal lack health care. but the point is that we almost notional service almost got a notional service instead of a national health service. well, if you listen to what saying, this what cullen was saying, this i mean, was actually trailing mean, she was actually trailing some very positive some very, very positive comments can call comments. you know, we can call this but but the way this off, but but the real way should actually cut through. this is in politics. the nhs is the third rail you touch it and die. the only time in my 22 years in parliament anybody's ever been elected as an independent. a completely independent. a completely independent was the kid who saved kid . the hospital campaign saved kid. the hospital campaign doctor . taylor got elected in doctor. taylor got elected in the doyle in ireland. there are seven tds elected on save our hospitals campaign, so this is political death . and the trouble political death. and the trouble with it being political death is it actually cuts out any semblance or hope of objectivity. if ever. there was a case for a completely non—partisan , non—political non—partisan, non—political conference speakers conference call it you like, but to

actually say, look, we are the only country in the world which has this model of the nhs in ireland, they charge you about ,50 to actually visit the gp ireland, they charge you about ,50 tyou tually visit the gp ireland, they charge you about ,501you havey visit the gp ireland, they charge you about ,50 tyou have to sit the gp ireland, they charge you about ,501you have to payhe gp you know, you have to pay national insurance france you national insurance in france you pay national insurance in france you pay the money. but pay and then the money. but every other country's possibly cuba, maybe cuba , but cuba, i think maybe cuba, but every in world every other country in the world has are we the has different model. are we the only one? that's right. is the rest of the world wrong? and i think what you just said about being eyed or dewy eyed being misty eyed or dewy eyed about the i really don't want to be too here, callum, because i know troubling not what know it's troubling not what we're for. so is this we're here for. so this is this is there isn't this is the point. there isn't this problem because we've given up our liberty and we've given up our liberty and we've given up our enable the nhs to our money to enable the nhs to survive. its nhs has survive. and now its nhs has turned give something back to turned to give something back to us. it's not functioning us. and it's not functioning well, the the nhs well, what is the nhs? the nhs is employer in is a third biggest employer in the you know, i think the world, you know, and i think the world, you know, and i think the indian railways that come second and the chinese communist army a huge army come first. so it's a huge there parallels. the there are many parallels. the mean in the nhs mean i spent years in the nhs and a very lowly and i was and in a very lowly and i was the branch secretary of the health service union at the middlesex hospital and it's

extraordinary they on the one hand great affection that hand they great affection that people hold for the nhs and, the other hand complete lack of other hand the complete lack of investigation of investigation the lack of oversight, the lack of due diligence. mean april at diligence. i mean every april at the end of the financial year we used to away perfectly used to throw away perfectly good and chairs buy good desks and chairs to buy ones we didn't spend ones because if we didn't spend that we lost that that money, we lost that money, you know, and i wasn't involved in the therapeutic. i was a supporter for ten years, but i even i saw is it would not even then i saw is it would not be for somebody. and be possible for somebody. and i'm at you here, i'm looking at you here, somebody to actually come forward, we take forward, say, look, can we take this of the political arena this out of the political arena and let to say this is about life death don't get life and death and we don't get this there will be more this right. there will be more and less life and don't forget the nhs originally beverages was it away after about it would fade away after about 15 years because you remember it was the five evils. it wasn't just health actually talking about slow them unemployment and other and you said we other things. and you said if we have a nation, we have a healthier nation, we won't to have all these won't need to have all these things because incidents of things because the incidents of illness decrease illness will actually decrease in demand has proved to in reality, demand has proved to be completely elastic . well, be completely elastic. well, yes. and supplies inelastic .

yes. and supplies inelastic. therefore, what we need is some and i said, looking at and as i said, still looking at you someone's someone's you because someone's someone's got it. someone not got to do it. someone who's not politically aligned say, politically aligned and say, look, park the politics look, let's park the politics and think about people. and think about the people. let's consumers let's think about the consumers as as . the producers. i as well as. the producers. i would actually suggest that instead taking of the instead of taking it out of the political we need someone political arena, we need someone who's enough say, who's bold enough to say, actually we're to set it actually, we're going to set it off, it, or reform it off, privatise it, or reform it and rather than talk and just do it rather than talk about it. interesting about it. it's interesting actually though a actually that even though this a very subject now, the very hot subject now, the political situation made it such that become politically that it's become politically advantageous for wes streeting of people labour, the people of all people labour, the people who gave to the nhs just who gave birth to the nhs just to be the ones who, sort of taking the bull by the horns, at least in the sorts of things they're saying. as i say, i don't necessarily wes streeting is cancer, i is recovering cancer, but i think think what you what you think i think what you what you just i mean the nhs is grim , just i mean the nhs is grim, really inefficient in the way that it and we've known this for a very long time and the fact that wes streeting is saying the labour be able to afford this

99% pay rise that these nurses are demanding. it's completely outrageous . it's just simply not outrageous. it's just simply not affordable for country . the affordable for country. the argument is always let's just keep throwing more money at it and just keep throwing more money at it and then maybe, maybe will come off that. but it doesn't it never does. and we need to be getting value for out of the nhs and actually having it be a national health service to serve the people and i think actually kelvin a degree you're right i think that we do just to have a party bold to say look we know this is a sensitive issue but this is life or death and we are going to have to do something and do something about it. right now, that's exactly what andrew lansley angela what andrew lansley did, angela and for health. and he was secretary for health. he do something he we've got to do something about and answer is about this. and the answer is privatise ship. it privatise the whole ship. it sounds to me, peter. yes. sounds good to me, peter. yes. and all the hospitals have all this. in my of the this. so in my part of the world, in london, you've world, in west london, you've got five different health groups world, in west london, you've gotcompetingznt health groups world, in west london, you've gotcompetingznt heother. roups world, in west london, you've gotcompetingznt heother. that all competing each other. that was nonsense. trouble with was nonsense. the trouble with saying do saying have some politician do it and you end up with andrew

menzies. oh, charming bloke, but i was secretary i hate if disaster was secretary of i think we of state for hell. i think we agree that. so thank you. agree on that. so thank you. thank you very much that's former labour mp still agreement i commentator i know a political commentator webb back with webb they'll both be back with me debate but before me shortly for debate but before that at what that let's have a look at what you have been saying about you guys have been saying about we're talking about today a labour vowing to take hostile on greg is turning on greg says labour is turning on the to and save their the strikers to and save their livelihoods. has labourjust committed against . the committed treachery against. the very people subsidises very very people that subsidises very existence. what thought existence. that's what i thought as greg. but it seems to me as well greg. but it seems to me from stephen powell just from what stephen powell just said they're said that actually they're attacking aren't attacking the unions that aren't backing anyway. so it's backing labour anyway. so it's easy game for them it's easy game for them and it's quite pointed quite cynical, as emma pointed out issue of faith and out on issue of faith and sharing that with others, carole says someone me she would says, someone told me she would pray for me a very difficult pray for me at a very difficult time in. my when my husband time in. my life when my husband died i was very touched and died, i was very touched and i think it was comforting to know she cared. why anyone be she cared. why would anyone be offended? irrelevant offended? it's irrelevant whether or not. whether believe in god or not. thank you believe thank you, carol. you do believe in god. a great comfort if. in god. it's a great comfort if. you believe god. it you don't believe in god. it doesn't any harm. so is doesn't do any harm. so how is it how prayer offensive on

it how is prayer offensive on abortion buffer zones? adrian says your pro—abortion sounded very confused to me she called her unborn baby child when she was saying a baby is not a human being until birth. they are the whole argument . the pro—abortion whole argument. the pro—abortion side is very confused because people will call them children and babies because that's what they are . then they'll to they are. then they'll try to dehumanise them words, dehumanise them with words, foetus cells which foetus and clump of cells which find quite to be honest find quite wicked. to be honest with . on wes streeting his with you. on wes streeting his comments on taking on the unions. goes labour unions. angie goes to on labour are turning on the unions are not turning on the unions but just doing that free general election spin covering all bases appeal to as many sections of society they angie is been society they can. angie is been on the money. they're playing a political game. they to political game. they want to have and eat it and have their cake and eat it and they want to throw some red meat out there to try get people's votes. all is. thank votes. that's all this is. thank you your comments. moving you for your comments. moving on, of canterbury on, the archbishop of canterbury delivered what's being described as the as a condemnation of the government's treatment of migrants asylum seekers. migrants and asylum seekers. justin welby described the rwanda policy as immoral and reiterated the sentiments in his

controversial east a sermon in which he said the policy is opposite of the nature of . with opposite of the nature of. with me to discuss this are former labour mp stephen pound and political emma webb . emma, this political emma webb. emma, this this this man , archbishop of this this man, archbishop of canterbury, justin welby . where canterbury, justin welby. where do we begin? well, this is ungodly. i think justin welby needs to get his own. sorry. pardon me. house in order. i think he . i think, you know , he think he. i think, you know, he he he's. he's telling the government they should be doing on a very complex and he can't even handle the situation within his own church just at the census results. the anglican church demonstrably failing this. he's got a lot of things that he ought to be doing right now rather than commenting on this i know. he's this issue. i don't know. he's i don't he's he's right at don't think he's he's right at all in suggesting that the government's policy on this is ungodly in any way. i think that he's not engaging with the reality of the situation the

reality of the situation the reality of the situation the reality of people smuggling. talking about the language that's being around invasion . he that's being around invasion. he said it was cruel and inhumane. he's ignoring the fact that we have organised criminal activity from albania gangs and that a lot of these men who will be coming over, will be going into criminal this country. so i criminal in this country. so i think he needs to firstly, personally , i think he needs to personally, i think he needs to take a more rounded, nuanced approach to this problem and to actually listen , look at the actually listen, look at the concerns the british people, because he's clearly extremely out of touch. well you tweeted earlier today that his his his rhetoric is quite divisive, actually . i agree. i you know, actually. i agree. i you know, i think i think that if any if anything he's guilty of. exactly what he's accusing. always the thing accuse you of really. i mean, he without sin stood . mean, he without sin stood. yeah. but i but i really do think ultimately he needs to keep his mouth shut about these things and deal with the problems that he faces in the

church because he and his bishops are, as you know very well, have calvin. they are so politically sized and so divisive. it is no wonder that their church is dying . right. their church is dying. right. mr. pound, is this the reason that the church of women is dying? because these bishops in the lords are political the of lords are too political and painting care about our and painting that care about our country, about, protecting and painting that care about our cou borders about, protecting and painting that care about our cou borders and out, protecting and painting that care about our cou borders and care 3rotecting and painting that care about our cou borders and care 3rotectthe our borders and care about the livelihoods, people that are crossing illegally, crossing the border illegally, painting and painting them as inhumane and cruel. think that's wrong. cruel. no, i think that's wrong. i of c suffers from i mean, the b of c suffers from the same problem that many old etonians have, is you etonians have, is that, you know, they at something know, they look at something from privileged from a rather privileged position, know , a situation position, you know, a situation where particularly consider where they particularly consider what me is at what worries me is looking at that picture shown that, that picture of just shown that, you where the only outside you know, where the only outside the majlis in tehran which actually has spiritual leaders sitting in the parliament as of right now. but just talk about the reality i'm not worried about agreeing with them , but i about agreeing with them, but i mean, we can totally disagree mean, if we can totally disagree on something about. but look, the established church i think disagree on that. well, that's only true in indivisible church. but if every but anyway, if every

professional said every month when i was an mp, i never dealt with less than 250 immigration cases, at least, and that was in all those years. now certain factors emerge that in certain you can actually see where the world's trouble spots, whether they're the they're from sri lanka or the south, they you know, south, you know, they you know, you see an uptick in. you suddenly see an uptick in. but what i note it's very quickly was that people who quickly was that the people who i deaung quickly was that the people who i dealing with almost all i was dealing with almost all were agents. were paying agents. and they used did you come used to say, how did you come here. i paid the agent things. the sons of wealthy farmers, people, they not people, and they would not people, and they would not people i that people that i thought that should from should actually from a theological perspective, be actually helping people . we actually helping the people. we should be helping in should be helping women in afghanistan can't to afghanistan can't go to university or people are being christians who are being slaughtered africa. you slaughtered in west africa. you know, should be helping know, we should be helping the people, and the people, the weak and the starving the hungry. we starving and the hungry. we should be helping who should not be helping those who are slick and the rich who are the slick and the rich who can actually afford to pay for a luxury. richard boat luxury. richard inflatable boat or across the channel. or what's across the channel. he's got nothing say about he's got nothing to say about that. okay. but listen that. good. okay. but listen there's fundamentally that. good. okay. but listen thervery, fundamentally that. good. okay. but listen thervery, very fundamentally that. good. okay. but listen thervery, very . fundamentally that. good. okay. but listen thervery, very . funwe nentally that. good. okay. but listen thervery, very . funwe nentaito and very, very. what we need to do, firstly there's i'm come do, firstly there's i'm not come across any organised utterly

useless the home. i've useless on the home. i've actually got a marvellous at home which they sent me by mistake which said in effect, you know, this mp has raised another question about, you know, brushing with the know, just brushing off with the usual into it. and usual we're looking into it. and what people what used to happen, people would years to get would wait for five years to get a determination at of a determination. at the end of the five years. it's, i think, called a regulation of reorganisation overseas overstayers so would overstayers. so what would happen years? keep happen after five years? keep head get citizenship . head down. you get citizenship. you know, we've got no id cards in country, so we've got no in this country, so we've got no idea in country if we idea who's in this country if we can actually sort that. so can actually sort up that. so the factor and then address the pull factor and then address push the push factor, because at the moment need actually have moment do need to actually have humanitarian in places that worked in south balkans, worked in kosovo. i've worked in sierra, worked in east timor, failed disastrously iraq , failed disastrously in iraq, agreed. but it did work in other places . but at the moment, the places. but at the moment, the fundamental there is that is the archbishop can't be right to talk about these things. i think is right. but on the other hand, there is the moat and the beam. yeah. he's right to talk yeah. and he's right to talk about but in his

about them. but wrong in his analysis. i'm just surprised a labour cause you're labour politician cause you're talking much when you talk talking so much when you talk about, know, people and about, you know, the people and the trafficking all the drug trafficking and all this activity that's this illegal activity that's going crossing channel going on crossing the channel illegally. it illegally. we are encouraging it with what he's with rhetoric like what he's talking i think talking about. but i think you hit the head when hit the nail on the head when you mentioned privilege. you mentioned his privilege. emma in palace , a emma he lives in a palace, a little palace. how many immigrants is the archbishop of canterbury know? canterbury housing, you know? well, i calvin's surprisingly that it's . oh, he he is him and that it's. oh, he he is him and his bishops are in a very rarefied position. they don't contaminate with the views of the majority of the british pubuc the majority of the british public and surveys have even showed the difference between the views of the congregation of this country and the leadership of the church. and you know better than anybody, is it the leadership of the church of england boots out. anybody who disagrees with their extreme centres, if anti—christian ideology and so you know i think fandom yes they are privilege

and they are out of touch with the british people . but i think the british people. but i think that it's a more fundamental problem and it's a bit similar. it's similar the conversation thatis it's similar the conversation that is going on at the moment to do with the monarchy. now, i actually believe that we should have convinced we should have an established the established church, and it's the same with the monarchy that, you know, sometimes will get a bad monarch that will happen. but you believe the you still believe in the institution of of the crown institution of the of the crown and believe institution and you believe the institution of the. because those are part of the. because those are part of constitution. you can't really have one without the other. there are sort mutually dependent set of organisation institutions . so i dependent set of organisation institutions. so i think dependent set of organisation institutions . so i think the institutions. so i think the problem at the moment is that it's similar to what's going on in our political culture as well that the climate of our of conversation of culture within our elites whether are within the church or whether they're within, in on either side , the within, in on either side, the house is completely slightly detached from . the british detached from. the british pubuc detached from. the british public and the british public's

importantly , because i think importantly, because i think church of england is key that there will be there will be a lot of people listening to the archbishop's comments and feeling driven away from the church scene this week. the comments of the bishop oxford precisely that demonstrates also how completely out of touch they are and i think that, you know, the people will be looking at these comments from the archbishop and thinking , you archbishop and thinking, you know, i say i live in kent on the coast and i'm having people having to my doors and windows and not let my dog into the garden because i might have an albanian come into my house and demand that i into demand that i drive into manchester as some of the stories you know stories went. so, you know not only are they they're also globalists and not looking at the or national the localism or the national precisely that precisely and i think that archbishop not only archbishop welby is not only doing damage the church, he's doing damage to the church, he's doing damage to the church, he's doing country, doing damage to the country, that we're out of that on the cusp, we're out of time. but next time i want to ask stephen pound if he thinks we should catholics in the we should have catholics in the lower be lower spiritual. i'll be an interesting keep getting interesting we keep getting off offered refusing that offered it we keep refusing that was former labour mp stephen was the former labour mp stephen pound political commentator

pound and political commentator webb. so much webb. thank you both so much for. today. for. your debates today. now you're commonsense for. your debates today. now you're with commonsense for. your debates today. now you're with me.ommonsense for. your debates today. now you're with me. the|onsense for. your debates today. now you're with me. the calvin;e crusade with me. the calvin robinson. i'll be back you robinson. i'll be back with you after the weather . and looking after the weather. and looking ahead to this evening's weather , u.k. is looking cold with freezing fog and a risk of wintry showers in places. let's take a look the details. wintry showers continuing. a northern coasts evening, some possible snow showers over high ground, clearer skies further , but clearer skies further, but patchy freezing fog in the east and a widespread frost . a round and a widespread frost. a round of wintry showers in the southeast bringing some snow in. and later elsewhere, a widespread and patchy freezing fog , again, widespread and patchy freezing fog, again, dry widespread and patchy freezing fog , again, dry with mostly fog, again, dry with mostly clear skies this evening in south wales, a few wintry showers possible of western coast light and a widespread frost expected too, staying mostly dry across the midlands later, although a few wintry showers are possible in the south. clearer skies further north, a widespread frost again patchy and freezing fog in the evening remaining dry. much of

northern england, although few isolated wintry showers, are possible at times below freezing, patchy and freezing fog once again at a cold evening in scott where the continued risk of sleet and clear skies further a widespread frost . further a widespread frost. temperatures dropping quickly tonight and staying dry for. much of northern ireland this evening. wintry continuing to affect northern eastern coast. clearer skies further and a mostly dry for the entire uk. wintry showers confined to the coasts, widespread and freezing fog by monday morning and that's how today's cold weather is shaping up for you today. join me nana akua saturday and afternoons on gb news. expect fiery debate and passionate discussion of me and my panel to some of the biggest topics hitting headlines. it's a place for opinion no one gets cancelled, but no one gets an easy ride . oh, so this. i be easy ride. oh, so this. i be ready for conversation . but a ready for conversation. but a fierce frank and of course fun

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hello and welcome back. this is calvin's common sense crusade on your tv and online. plenty coming up today. but first, it's the news with. polly . top story the news with. polly. top story at 3:00, the jazz, your authorities say the recovery operation , yesterday's explosion operation, yesterday's explosion is going to take weeks, not days. at least three people were killed when a blast ripped through a block of flats in. antalya. no survivors were found. 12 are still thought to be missing . chief of jersey be missing. chief of jersey police robin says sadly, more fatalities are expected. we are not going to be here for days we are likely to be here for weeks . and it's important that i make that clear . this morning i spoke

that clear. this morning i spoke to the liaison coordinator who described to me the feelings of those families and am really, really keen to ensure that everybody understands the emotions, that they currently going through, going through . so going through, going through. so this is not going to happen quickly. it's going to happen carefully . and it's going to carefully. and it's going to happen sensitively . well, in happen sensitively. well, in other news today, the authorities in scotland say a libyan man accused of making bomb in the lockerbie disaster is now in us. custody . abu is now in us. custody. abu aguila massoud is believed to be the third conspirator of the terrorist attack on pan am flight 103 in 1988. i for the crown office, says it will do what it can to bring those who acted masood to justice. the nurses has offered to press pause on strike action if . the pause on strike action if. the government agrees to hold talks pay- government agrees to hold talks pay. the royal college nursing has accused the health secretary

of failing to negotiate properly and thousands of members are now planning to walk out on the 15th and 20th of december. but writing the sun, steve barclay warned the action cause significant risk to patients and added the door remained open for further talks. he didn't say where the pay could be part of those talks. meanwhile, postal workers are staging fresh today the communication workers says the communication workers says the action could a christmas postal meltdown . more strikes postal meltdown. more strikes are planned over the next couple of weeks which the unions will create a huge backlog post. royal mail says money allocated to the pay deal be eaten away by the of the strike action . the the of the strike action. the cold snap has been causing travel disruption across the uk is expected to continue throughout the week as snow ice sweep across parts of the country , the met office says. country, the met office says. overnight frost expected until at least next friday. a yellow warning for snow and ice is in place for scotland wales as well as southwestern . now in a world

as southwestern. now in a world first, a teenager from leicester is now cancer free after taking part in an experimental new treatment , 13 part in an experimental new treatment, 13 year old part in an experimental new treatment , 13 year old alyssa, treatment, 13 year old alyssa, who had leukaemia given free manufactured cells from a healthy donor. which were then modified to kill cancerous t cells . 28 days after being given cells. 28 days after being given the pioneering treatment she is now in remission. doctors great ormond street hospital in london . it can be offered to children early in their treatment, ultimately offering a better chance at life . ukraine's chance at life. ukraine's president says over one and a half million people south—west and odesa are without power following russian airstrikes . following russian airstrikes. officials in kyiv say elektra city will be restored in the city over the coming days. but warned complete restoration may take or three months. meanwhile moscow says its attacks on military legitimate and that it target civilians. but president zelenskyy described the

situation in the region as very difficult . was it a risky scheme difficult. was it a risky scheme in total . russian terrorists in total. russian terrorists used 15 drones against the odesa region just during one night on saturday. this is the true attitude of russia towards odesa the attitude towards odesa residents deliberate bullying , residents deliberate bullying, deliberate attempt to bring disaster . the city. the storm. disaster. the city. the storm. and harry says he takes responsibility for england's loss in the world cup quarter finals last night. the captain of the england squad says he's gutted and. he says it'll take time to get over to france. meanwhile gareth southgate said he needs time to decide whether he needs time to decide whether he has enough energy to continue as england manager you up to date on gb news more news as it happens. now back to calvin calvin .

calvin. that welcome to the common sense crusade with the reverend calvin robinson. here's coming up this afternoon. leadership behind the rmt strike agenda includes a senior in the communist party of britain and others who have parroted kremlin's position on ukraine. but i'm asking, do the rmt communist roots really matter ? harry and meghan are matter? harry and meghan are told to stay away from king charles's coronation for fears they may be booed with former cabinet minister saying the couple categorically should not be at westminster abbey when charles is crowned in may . charles is crowned in may. culture secretary michelle donelan . britain has acted as donelan. britain has acted as a custody of disputed objects and once she starts giving one back. where does that end. the wonderful dr. david will give us his views . and of course you can his views. and of course you can join in any of discussions by emailing gbviews@gbnews.uk or by tweeting at gb news dashboard .

tweeting at gb news dashboard. it's been revealed the leadership behind the rmt strike agenda , a leading figure in the agenda, a leading figure in the communist party of great britain and figures who openly support president putin and his invasion of ukraine. the rmt president alex gordon is an executive member of the communist party britain, who openly criticise the toppling of the pro—kremlin government of ukraine in 2014 and in alan a, member of the rmt executive committee, has previously called ukraine to be returned to us as all. but should we care about all of this? if why debate this? i'm joined firefighter and trade unionist mr. paul embery and his story giles poll. do these revelations the army's claims that these strikes are purely about pay and work conditions and did it reveal an underlying

sinister political motivation behind the strikes strikes ? no, behind the strikes strikes? no, i don't think they do . i mean, i don't think they do. i mean, look, the truth is the trade union movement throughout history has always had people within , its leadership who are within, its leadership who are let's much further to the left than , the average citizen or than, the average citizen or even average rank and file trade unionist . so in that sense, you unionist. so in that sense, you know these so—called revolution , as you as you put them, are particularly anything new. what i would say as well is the actually in the 1960s and 1970s, for example, when there a big and strong british communist party, the influence from hardline , if you like, within hardline, if you like, within the trade union movement and also some trotskyists as well was arguably much more significant than it is today. today think that that influence is very limited what i think really is that these these

stories are often up at a time when trade unions taking action and when trade unions taking to picket lines because of the general injustices that their workers are suffering in the workplace. and it seems to that people who are opponents , trade people who are opponents, trade unions, will always kind of dredge up these stories because they want undermine the story they want to undermine the story of day, which is the action of the day, which is the action that being taken. so i think that is being taken. so i think we should it through that we should see it through that prism positive. okay giles prism to be positive. okay giles i really do like paul, but i think he's really seriously downplaying that is, is vitally important here and that if this was a strike from unions the right and there were elements of involved, we would be rightly outraged. and because it's from the left of the far left and we're seeing of communism involved , surely we should have involved, surely we should have the same outrage . if not, why? the same outrage. if not, why? giles well, i think we need to start off first of all with accepting. it's really important that trade unions do support their members interests, particularly at difficult times . but i think i think , i

. but i think i think, i disagree slightly with paul in that would say that if you look the actual leadership of the rmt, you'll see a unified affiliation with in one form or another that president being on the executive of the communist party, britain, but other members affiliated with the trotskyite wing, which is just a different descendent from , marx different descendent from, marx and lenin. but between them all there is a pretty stance which is very much on the side. marxism and the marxist for society . and i think, you know, society. and i think, you know, we've seen a number media interviews with people asking mick lynch, are you a marxist . mick lynch, are you a marxist. but they don't go any further. what we need to really understand precisely what the political pro gramm of these people is . being a member of the people is. being a member of the communist party britain or being a member of one of the trotskyite parties , is like trotskyite parties, is like being on the catering committee of the local golf club. these

guys seriously determined to overthrow the market economy and replace it a mass programme of nationalisation and if you were to actually look at as i'm quite prepared to give you some examples if you were to look at the programme of the communist party of britain, i mean it's, it's, it's student politics run riot they're talking all riot. they're talking about all sorts of extraordinary measures which they want to bring in. they want , they want to they want, they want to nationalise every single aspect of transport of factories right down to luxury holiday establishments , estate agencies establishments, estate agencies , advertising agencies . they , advertising agencies. they want to put sympathetic they want to put sympathetic they want to put sympathetic they want to replace the leaders of the police and the secret services and courts and the army with people who are sympathetic to the revolution . i mean, this to the revolution. i mean, this is this is this is a mass which they have and it's explicit. it's you can read it and it's

fantasy . paul, is this not fantasy. paul, is this not similar a similar situation to what we had black lives matter last year and everyone was saying, yeah, they're neo—marxist they're marxist, neo—marxist and they're marxist, but it was all reported. and then looked at manifesto then we looked at the manifesto and oh, actually they and thought, oh, actually they are when when are marxist. and when we, when we that we don't often we use that word, we don't often as out any further as charles out go any further and, that means. we're and, say what that means. we're talking an ideology that talking about an ideology that has resulted in millions of deaths scale. deaths on a global scale. i mean, not well, look, i'm no marxist and i've much of my time in the trade union opposing people within the upper echelons of the movement who are either marx is communists or trotskyists . and undoubtedly trotskyists. and undoubtedly they do exist. but i don't think this is any great review. i honestly don't think this is great secret. these people have existed at the top of the trade union movement to a greater or lesser extent since its inception. but let's let's be clear, people are not taking the picket lines in thousands. their hundreds , thousands, because hundreds, thousands, because they are being kind of inveigled into some plan by you know these

marxist leaders. the reason people are taking the picket lines at the moment is because thousands workers have voted democratically in a ballot in a secret postal ballot because that's what the law says about has to be because they feel bitter at the injustices they're experiencing at the low pay their in attacks on attacks their in attacks on attacks their conditions of service and industry that they're experiencing that is the only reason that people are taking to picket lines. so you know if we want to kind of attribute all of this action to these sort of raids under the bed stories, then we're missing the real point that the economy point, which is that the economy is fundamentally unfair. people are suffering in the workplace and people voted democratically to fight back, not mick lynch has decided to call them on strike, but because they've decided to take action and we shouldn't sight of that. shouldn't lose sight of that. but i do think. these issues are all conflated on i think you all conflated on i do think you know refer to and think know i refer to and i think people that were taking a knee might not been taking a might not have been taking a knee to support marxism, but the

organisation is marxist. therefore the method behind it was i see parallels to was which i see parallels to this in the going on strike might be doing because they might not be doing because they support regime . the support a marxist regime. the marxist be marxist regime might be encouraging and manipulating people strike to bring people to go on strike to bring down of life, to break down our way of life, to break down our way of life, to break down we are seeing so down our. and we are seeing so many sectors to go on many sectors agreeing to go on strike the same time. giles, strike at the same time. giles, could this not be a wider conspiracy. well, the hard left the far left have always had this romantic throwback to the great, as they see it, of the general strike, 1926, which we're actually really pretty well flopped in a few days except for the miners . i think i except for the miners. i think i think once again, you know, there are ways in which i certainly agree agree with paul. but think you need to look at what members of the leadership of the rmt have been saying. i mean. eddie dempsey, the assistant general secretary. so the rmt is trying create a culture of civil disobedience in this country. that's a past quote of his his predecessor, steve, you ask yourself the

question of do they really care about the fact they're now going to after two really difficult years of covid six months of misery with people's mortgages going up , they have this going up, they have this opportunity for a christmas holiday. do they really care about the fact that they are destroying the breaks that a few that a lot of people a few members ? i mean, what is it, members? i mean, what is it, 80,000 members of the rmt that make was voted in by 7000 only in their last ballot and steve hadley , former assistant general hadley, former assistant general secretary in one of the last strikes they had he put out on this statement, he said it's taken me 3 hours to drive eight miles. mission gridlock, achievement , victory to the rmt achievement, victory to the rmt i'm a proud marxist. this achievement, victory to the rmt i'm a proud marxist . this is i'm a proud marxist. this is what they want to do . they want what they want to do. they want to disrupt society . they want to to disrupt society. they want to stir up unease . they want to stir up unease. they want to divide us . and this central divide us. and this central principle of communism from

trotsky and lenin, all the and all the is that actually it is cause of the revolution, which is more important than anything else . morality in the communist else. morality in the communist . it's not is something good or bad?is . it's not is something good or bad? is it kind or unkind? should we consider the needs of the millions people who are desperate just to go for break and try and forget the misery of and try and forget the misery of a lot of things that they're deaung a lot of things that they're dealing with? oh, no. as far as communism is concerned, whatever age, the revolution is what is important and what is valid. and |, important and what is valid. and i, i look at the leadership's subtext in, the political cause that they've given themselves to. and i frankly think , that to. and i frankly think, that they are discrediting their members in the course of their members in the course of their members by tainting with the fact that they do have a quite clear depopulation agenda and. paul clear depopulation agenda and. paul, you mentioned that, you know, people on the right of drudging this stuff up. we used to terminology i can't remember now the red dead under the bed

or something like that. it's on be.thank or something like that. it's on be. thank don't you think be. thank you. don't you think people a right to know what people have a right to know what the leadership really the rmt leadership really believe? after all, they could theoretically bringing the country standstill? country to a standstill? well, i mean, quotes giles mean, some of the quotes giles has just given us, it doesn't seem leadership, you seem the rnc leadership, you know , keeping a secret know, keeping it a secret themselves. so it as i said before, it's not as if this is some kind of great review and at the end of the day, we do have very restricted restrictive trade union laws in this country. every single trade union leader has to be elected in a secret democratic ballot . in a secret democratic ballot. lynch was elected by and by his his predecessor, mick cash. he's predecessors of the rnc were all democratically elected by their members. they all seem to be quite popular with their members. of this stuff that members. some of this stuff that jose signed here doesn't seem be a disincentive towards to support people . and i support these people. and i would say, look, in the 1980s, i just about old enough to remember margaret about just about old enough to rem nationalargaret about just about old enough to rem national union: about just about old enough to rem national union of about the national union of mineworkers as the enemy . and mineworkers as the enemy. and that designed as a distraction

from what was really going on in the mining industry at that time, which the fact that the thatcher government essentially smashing up the mining industry and, throwing hundreds of thousands men out on dole thousands of men out on the dole and destroying communities in the . and you know, the process. and you know, certainly margaret thatcher , certainly margaret thatcher, people on the right to say, oh, this is battle by the national this is a battle by the national union mineworkers, they're our enemy . therefore, you they enemy. therefore, you know, they want the thatcher down. want to bring the thatcher down. in it was simply about in fact, it was simply about workers voting extend their workers voting to extend their industry and their livelihoods. and that's what's happening now with windsor with the so—called windsor of discontent. thousands discontent. it's thousands workers angry at the way they're being treated , bitter at the being treated, bitter at the fact that they have had to suffer decade or more of pay suffer decade or more of low pay voting democratically , fight voting democratically, fight back to take to picket lines . back to take to picket lines. they think that being ill treated and i think this is just a reflection to suggest as i said, it's some sort of plan to drag these workers picket lines against their will by a bunch of marxists and a much complex and nuanced debate than that. and i think we should recognise . okay, think we should recognise. okay, well we have i that's

well i think we have i that's been two very different but very interesting that. so interesting takes on that. so thank much. firefighter thank you very much. firefighter trade embry and trade unionist paul embry and giles thank you for that giles udy. thank you for that today. plenty more to come this afternoon on my common sense crusade after harry crusade and after break, harry and being told to and meghan are being told to stay from king charles's stay away from king charles's coronation they may be coronation for fears they may be booed discuss next. booed. we'll discuss that next. but first, let's take a look at the weather and looking to this evening's weather. the uk is looking cold with freezing fog and risk of wintry showers in places . let's take a look at the places. let's take a look at the details . wintry showers details. wintry showers continuing northern coast this evening. some possible showers over high ground, clear further west, but patchy freezing fog in the east and a wide spread frost. a round wintry showers in the southeast bringing snow in. and later elsewhere , a and later elsewhere, a widespread frost and patchy freezing fog once again dry with mostly clear skies . this freezing fog once again dry with mostly clear skies. this evening in south wales, a few wintry showers possible of western coast light winds and a widespread frost expected there

to staying mostly dry across the midlands later, although a few into showers are possible in the south. clear skies further north, more widespread frost again, patchy mist and freezing fog in the evening remaining dry across much of northern, although a few isolated wintry showers are possible at a times, temperatures below freezing . temperatures below freezing. moscow, freezing fog once again . and a cold evening in scotland . the continued risk of sleet and snow clear skies further south, widespread frost. temperatures dropping quickly tonight and staying dry for much of northern ireland this evening. wintry showers continue to affect northern and eastern coasts . clearer skies further coasts. clearer skies further west and a mostly dry night for entire uk. wintry showers to the coasts, widespread frost , coasts, widespread frost, freezing fog by monday morning . freezing fog by monday morning. and that's how today's very weather is shaping up for you today.

welcome to the common sense crusade on gb news on tv, online and on wireless. the fallout from harry meghan's netflix docu series has continued after coalition political grandees miniature , figures and miniature, figures and historians called for the couple to stay away from king charles's coronation in may. amongst those calling for them to stay away is former conservative minister david, who says they categorically shouldn't come because they make money selling their family down the river, adding the public would be perfectly to boo them. if they do turn up and to give his thoughts on this is royal commentator charles wright. charles, thank you for joining me. is this is outstanding me. this is this is outstanding we're the military. we're hearing from the military. we're politicians we're hearing from politicians that should stay away

that royals should stay away from the coronation. it. from the coronation. that's it. that's right. i david is that's right. i david mellor is absolutely correct i think that if they did turn up that is a grave danger of boos coming not for the or the queen, but for harry and meghan. and everybody knows they come over here, they'll have their own tv crews with them and pictures and everything will add an everything else and will add an advert to think. we'll have another netflix documentary. so no, this shouldn't this shouldn't be anywhere near. charles, how was the previous one the current one? one done or the current one? well thought it was three years of my life. i'll get back again and i were netflix , who paid 88 and i were netflix, who paid 88 million for this rubbish. i would be asking for 87 million, £999,000 back. it that bad? it's all gushy mills and boon stuff a few barbs at the royals but nothing that you could nothing that you could really object to things that they've said before . the problem is, calvin, that next thursday that's when the

bombshells should come . because bombshells should come. because if you look at the three trailers that we've had and they talk about dirty tricks , oh, woe talk about dirty tricks, oh, woe is me and everything else that's when we should be seeing the nitty gritty over. if we don't, then clearly we don't have anything. well, we don't have anything. well, we don't have anything to worry . but the king anything to worry. but the king and queen don't have anything worry about. i don't think there will be anything. well, it's hard to say. mean, it's hard. hard to say. i mean, it's hard. say i never do. any prediction when i that something is when i know that something is going up in less than a going to come up in less than a week. than week week. we're less than a week territory it's territory now. and it's interesting when that in the interesting how when that in the interesting how when that in the in america million people watched that first episode i said to 4 million in the uk for the episode 1.5 million for the second episode. you see the trend is on 800,000 for the third episode. i obviously there's going to be people catching up all the time with it because that's the point of netflix show. but you know, when this blockbuster is supposed to be there, it's global scale . on

be there, it's global scale. on a global scale, that's nothing. we just had giles on a moment ago. last clip over ago. his last clip got over 3 million viewers on tiktok. so we're outperforming that. harry and this rate. exactly, and meghan this rate. exactly, exactly. that's that's the whole point. charles, i've heard that there are conversations going on about of their about stripping them of their titles we know well there is a 1917 titles deprivation at which was introduced by parliament the time which allowed george the fifth to strip various european royals of their these are british titles now the there two mps bob seely for the conservatives and again recall rachel maskell now . they've both rachel maskell now. they've both got bills going through mask wants the duke york stripped of his duke of york title and she wants harry and meghan stripped of their titles. it's interesting that the king cannot strip the his errant family members of the titles it's got to be done by an act of parliament now problem as you probably as you realise with the

private member's bills they really go through the government supports them right so you're talking about is a government coming up with an amendment to this 1917 act which would strip them of the duke duchess role and could strip party of his principle if they just strip him and her of the duke and duchess she reverts back to being a princess i think a lot of people are asking for this. so let's see if it goes ahead. could be very interesting. thank you very for that pleasure. that was royal commentator charles, you are with gb news on tv, radio and online and after break, and online and after the break, the repatriation is rearing its ugly again with culture ugly head again with culture secretary michelle donald and asking, why don't you start giving it end? giving back? where does it end? the wonderful david starkey will give now . time for give his views now. time for a check, though, on those news headunes check, though, on those news headlines tatyana . kelvin. headlines with tatyana. kelvin. thank you. this is the from the gb newsroom jazz . authorities gb newsroom jazz. authorities say the recovery operation

following yesterday's explosion will take weeks not, days. at least three people were killed when a blast ripped through a block of flats st helier. no survivors have been found. 12 people are still thought to missing. the chief of jersey , missing. the chief of jersey, robyn smith, says sadly fatalities are expected . fatalities are expected. authorities in scotland say libyan man accused of making the bomb in the lockerbie disaster is now in us custody. abu aguila masood is believed be the third conspirator of the terrorist attack on pan am flight 103 in 1988. a spokesman , the crown 1988. a spokesman, the crown office, says it will do what it to bring those who acted with masood to . justice the nurses masood to. justice the nurses union has offered press pause on strike action if the government agrees to hold talks pay. the royal college of nursing has accused the health secretary of failing to negotiate properly , failing to negotiate properly, and thousands of members are now planning walk out on the 15th,

on the 20th of december. writing the sun, steve barclay warned the sun, steve barclay warned the action will cause significant risk patients and added the remains open for further talks with the cold snap, which has been causing travel disruption is expected continue through the week as snow and ice sweeps across parts of the uk. the met office says overnight frost is expected until least next friday. a yellow for snow and ice is in place for . parts of scotland as place for. parts of scotland as well as southwest england . tv well as southwest england. tv online . dab+ radio. stay with us online. dab+ radio. stay with us calvin's back in a moment.

welcome back to the common sense crusade on gb news on online and

on your wireless for this week's regular with historian and broadcaster david starkey, we spoke about the debate over ownership of the elgin marbles culture secretary michelle donlon says returning them to greece will be a dangerous and slip free road after it emerged . that british museum chairman george had held secret talks the greek prime minister to negotiate their return. the complex and, fascinating history of these objects is often left out of the contemporary or told in a one sided manner. so is the professor. dr. david starkey , professor. dr. david starkey, providing a much needed context and common sense ? david, who was and common sense? david, who was 7 and common sense? david, who was ? lord elgin. and why did he bnng ? lord elgin. and why did he bring the marbles? london. who is lord elgin ? he is thomas is lord elgin? he is thomas bruce , the 17th earl of elgin . bruce, the 17th earl of elgin. he is the absolute flower , is he is the absolute flower, is the kind of person we would rather approval. is exactly the kind of person we should be putting in the house of lords nowadays . as he is highly nowadays. as he is highly educated at harrow, he's at

westminster . educated at harrow, he's at westminster. he educated at harrow, he's at westminster . he goes to st westminster. he goes to st andrew's and scots . he studies andrew's and scots. he studies law in parry . andrew's and scots. he studies law in parry. he andrew's and scots. he studies law in parry . he travels to law in parry. he travels to dresden to learn german. he is immensely public spirited . he is immensely public spirited. he is rich. he tries to develop industry . and he builds a industry. and he builds a splendid grecian style house for himself and is the essential purpose in doing what he did to removal and bringing back to london of the elgin is very simple . it is to london of the elgin is very simple. it is to improve the arts in great britain . he sees arts in great britain. he sees it as an education enterprise and the same time. could it be argued that by moving the statues to london we've helped preserve them over the time. you can again the is double is much than simply preservation. the bringing of the statues to london means that for the first time what then? the central still is the centre of culture and academic study was able to look at the for the first time

the of bringing them to europe is to revolutionise arts in europe. it is revolutionise our understanding of ancient greece and hellenistic greece for the first time. these things are studied for the first time. they feed directly, you see. they become objects of poetry they become objects of poetry they become objects of imitation . become objects of imitation. what i think we need to understand is, again, all these about beauty , cultural about beauty, cultural expropriation and imitation and whatever gets it wrong. what seeing exactly at this particular moment around 1800 is genuine creation of the world culture in which for the first time we understand a world history. remember this is the first moment which really powerful over all historical narrative, is constructed which is based accurately on sources , is based accurately on sources, on the study of what's called

culture, like the sculptures themselves, where gone wrong is to see these things simply as simply to see them as items to which there is legal title and to argue about legal title. the argument ownership only really becomes relevant with the question of restitution, particularly of jewish works. i hope that had been seized by the and counter seizures by the soviets after the second world war. and the argument, i think, just polluted the whole the way that we look at these questions, we should backwards because often bring up world war two in this argument and i don't think it is about ownership or appropriation it's actually about moral relativism, isn't it? would you that moral it? would you say that moral standards determined by standards are determined by culture and history, or are they . oh, no . absolute matters . i . oh, no. absolute matters. i mean, god is a human invention perfectly clearly and he assumes

he is. he assumes his lineaments from mankind and changes his behaviour. remarks from period to period , depending on on on on to period, depending on on on on on. changing human values and again, all of these notion that we are talking about notions like a national culture notions like a national culture notions like a national notions like heritage, these are all western inventions . they have absolutely inventions. they have absolutely no in the history of constantinople or the history of athens . but isn't about the athens. but isn't about the problem that we've disconnected from british culture and values of the time which was formed and founded christian moral values and. we have a new contemporary set of values that aren't rooted necessarily in the christian faith and people trying to compare the two which are completely incompatible. well, i'm not i'm not sure that i really think that elgin was was motivated by anything that you

could call really christian values . is he. i think, again, values. is he. i think, again, kelvin that by this fashionable business, as it were the basis of conservatism is christianity leaves out one absolutely fundamental central part. what are all these people arguing ? are all these people arguing? they're arguing about the remains of the classical world. remember, we are a secondary civilisation . we are civilisation. we are a civilisation. we are a civilisation and the world into which christ is the world of greece , rome and the values of greece, rome and the values of elgin. all the values of the classical world are new, are essential views . politics are essential views. politics are much classical than they are christian . the language of christian. the language of politics, you know, aristocracy, democracy , monarchy. this is democracy, monarchy. this is classical . and the notion classical. and the notion republic is roman . and so what republic is roman. and so what we are what we doing, we're deaung we are what we doing, we're dealing with essentially western

nofions dealing with essentially western notions and the notions of creation of highly specific western civilisation , most most western civilisation, most most particularly the civilisation would exactly this moment of about 1800 becomes the world's civilisation that is anglo—american and this combination of your christianity and my, my increasing to look at the classical is formed at that moment and again it begins educational mission is sense of preservation this sense of improvement that's all part of it the idea is that the these these examples possibly still these examples possibly still the fourth fifth century bc. are seen as an archetype they're seen as a unique peak of human achievement, which will then fertilise other achievement. and if our culture is formed out of the classics and out of christianity and conserved some is protecting that culture preserving it indeed to hand it

down to the next generation is it okay that we finally have a culture secretary that is willing to address this issue and said it will be a slippery slope things back? slope to start things back? i would passionately. the british museum is a monument to as its previous director neil macgregor knew well it is a monument to a supreme achievement of western and more anglo—american anglo british culture . it represents british culture. it represents an attempt at seeing genuine patina of world history through objects through document because originally of course, the british was there as well. it was seen consciously as a kind of universal of knowledge that that what it was seen as and that what it was seen as and that seems to me to be something that seems to me to be something thatis that seems to me to be something that is noble . it seems to me that is noble. it seems to me that is noble. it seems to me thatis that is noble. it seems to me that is something that's profoundly worthwhile . and it profoundly worthwhile. and it also, of course, represents the peak of a culture we know which you name with ancient world.

what's seen as the great peak of the culture of the ancient world is in that peculiar again of greece and egypt in the great library of alexandria that extraordinary achievement of trying to bring together the accumulated learning, the of a whole culture and the symbol of the destruction of the great library of alexandria is the moment, i suppose , of the final moment, i suppose, of the final for not not not so much the fall in politics but the falling culture of the ancient world. it would seem to me if we start stripping the british museum and the louvre and the great in berlin of their treasures what we're seeing is a similar destruction of the achievement of a universal world culture founded in the west. it be an equal tragedy to burning of the library of alexandria , david library of alexandria, david starkey thank you very much . and starkey thank you very much. and lightning . the professor will lightning. the professor will joining me on my crusade future

episodes as well. we move on. let's have a look at what you guys have had to say about today's topics. on wes streeting comments taking health comments about taking on health unions. labour did not unions. barbara labour did not give birth to the nhs in my view. they developed a tory idea. streeting is an opportunist of the worst kind . opportunist of the worst kind. there's something in that, barbara. i don't who truly started the nhs because it was a debate between multiple parties. but i do think wes is taking the opportunity can at moment opportunity as he can at moment on justin welby , the on justin welby, the government's immigration policy . and he goes on to say, i'm afraid to welby does not afraid to say mr. welby does not attracts me to god. thankfully others do. that is the greatest shame the biggest problem i think facing as a nation think we're facing as a nation in that he is turning people away quite literally the numbers in are a in the church are taking a nosedive leadership. nosedive under his leadership. that's for that's a great shame for everybody. thank for sending everybody. thank you for sending your please do your thoughts. please do continue so. it has been continue to do so. it has been just a year since a father, just over a year since a father, michael former michael nasir ali, the former anglican of rochester, made headune anglican of rochester, made headline spy converting to roman catholicism . we spoke earlier in catholicism. we spoke earlier in the week about the reasons for

his conversion. the archbishop of canterbury is a recent statement on uk immigration policy and also on whether the church of england has a bias against conservatives . someone's against conservatives. someone's in your . it's against conservatives. someone's in your. it's been a year since you went into full communion with rome. congratulations yes, just over a year. the faith journey been like for you ? yes, journey been like for you? yes, it's been very good . i mean, it's been very good. i mean, it's been very good. i mean, it's been very good. i mean, it's been a learning time course because you are learning new things. you're meeting new people. you're doing new things. so i've been teaching at the angeuka so i've been teaching at the angelika in rome which i had never done before . in addition never done before. in addition to my work in oxford, right . to my work in oxford, right. you're stimulating . and you've you're stimulating. and you've talked about one of the reasons for leaving the anglican was authority. yes you elaborate a little bit on the wall street things really. i mean, one was that in a worldwide church and i mean, we are all in that situation now because we live this sort of global world, as it were, where people are in with one another when decisions made

for everyone . we have to make for everyone. we have to make sure that stick so that they are implemented properly . and more implemented properly. and more and more i discovered that the anglican communion didn't have any such ways of making decisions . so any such ways of making decisions. so i think the archbishop of canterbury, when asked how decisions are made and he said they're made by consensus and then people can do what they wish. well this is not you know, this is a recipe for , you know, this is a recipe for, confusion and chaos. secondly . confusion and chaos. secondly. the faithful clergy as well. but the faithful need about way of teaching to which they can refer when they have to make decisions about life . and the catholic

about life. and the catholic church, of course, has a very developed body of teaching. but even the body teaching that we had in the anglican communion is now being rejected particularly by churches in the west. you know , and then thirdly, of know, and then thirdly, of course, there was this question of authority that when all the scholarships being done , when scholarships being done, when everybody has been consulted , everybody has been consulted, someone needs to decide which is the way to go go . i think those the way to go go. i think those who are, regardless the particular issues and that are issues around i mean , were the issues around i mean, were the three reasons for my making the move. have there any conflicts that been really difficult for you to overcome theologically ? you to overcome theologically? well, i would say i mean if i am pushed that i'm a catholic of the bible and of the fathers and of the councils . now, of course, of the councils. now, of course, in church, like the catholic church and many others, the orthodox are also examples of this. many of devotion grow up

as . it were in people's lives as. it were in people's lives and different people , different and different people, different preferences . the catholic church preferences. the catholic church doesn't always require you to take part in every devotion that there is and shouldn't do. so pope benedict, when he was cardinal ratzinger , wrote a very cardinal ratzinger, wrote a very fine little paper . little paper fine little paper. little paper are often the best ones in which he said of , are often the best ones in which he said of, course are often the best ones in which he said of , course they can. you he said of, course they can. you know, people can believers can experience special revelation . experience special revelation. whether those are apparitions or visions or dreams or whatever they may be. but for the church judge, whether they are genuine or not they must cohere with the revelation that's been given. once we're all. so, i mean, i think that's the position i would take. people have preferences. well fine. i mean , preferences. well fine. i mean, so do i. okay. all right. so

talk specifically about the church of england today, because there have been pronouncements in the house of lords, especially around the immigration debate. yes. it ungodly to protect our borders. no, no , course it's not. i mean, no, no, course it's not. i mean, we the government of the day, whichever government it may be, has a duty to protect because by that, making sure that people who live here are safe , that who live here are safe, that there is social, that there is proper to serve the population thatis proper to serve the population that is here already and services like health and education can be provided. i mean , no country has limitless mean, no country has limitless resources and we have to make sure that the resources they do have are applied first to the population . so of course it is population. so of course it is not ungodly . it population. so of course it is not ungodly. it is part of the problem . children of society, if

problem. children of society, if you , like i tend to agree with you, like i tend to agree with you. but what would you to people who say but our as christians is to love our neighbour. absolutely i mean, zainab badawi , i think it was zainab badawi, i think it was who once said to me, i've hardtalk twice and this was the second time. and she said her opening gambit it was your bible tells to love your neighbour. and i said, the bible doesn't just tell us to love our neighbours or tells us to love the stranger . neighbours or tells us to love the stranger. in neighbours or tells us to love the stranger . in the neighbours or tells us to love the stranger. in the same chapter in the book of love us. so that's true. and that is non—negotiable . and so non—negotiable. and so christians have an obligation wherever they are , to meet the wherever they are, to meet the metier and social and spiritual of , those who come to them , of, those who come to them, whether they are neighbours or strange and whoever they are not refugees , seekers, whatever . refugees, seekers, whatever. that's absolutely . not. but that

that's absolutely. not. but that is not the same thing as. government policy . so every government policy. so every government has to decide how it is going to maintain the safety and security its citizens, how it's going to maintain the integrity of its borders. and thatis integrity of its borders. and that is perfectly legitimate for to do. the idea that nations is important as opposed this growing movement growing movement of globalism , of one movement of globalism, of one world government, of one world body of people . that seems to me body of people. that seems to me to be a quite a terrifying idea. yeah mean people find their identity in a number of different ways. of course, families very important in terms of our primary identity the family and the health of the family and the health of the family . and there's so much family. and there's so much evidence that. then you could have other things like kinship groups or clans or tribes or indeed nations. and each has its own validity . absolutely it was

own validity. absolutely it was my name was also mentioned in the house of lords today. someone to ask the question why was calvin robinson not ordained to the of england? do you think there is an issue with concern tips, whether it be theological or political conservatives getting through the liberal gatekeepers of the established church ? i think this is true of church? i think this is true of many . liberal protestant and many. liberal protestant and anglican church is days and it is very regrettable because it would reduce the diversity of these churches and it . will the these churches and it. will the well—motivated especially younger people . i mean, what younger people. i mean, what valuable about people like you is that you go through the whole of life and ahead of you and that, god willing and god willing, of course, always but you know the church needs people like that you so many are now into the ministry. and second or third careers and that's fine also . but you need those who

also. but you need those who going to give the whole of their lives. thank you for that . well, lives. thank you for that. well, thank you very much, monsignor. thank you . such a fascinating thank you. such a fascinating chat with such great theologian and the entire conversation will be available on our youtube channel before we end the show. i want to share one more quick came out with you on our abortion clinic buffer zones . abortion clinic buffer zones. phillip says i only see pro—lifers harassing people outside abortion clinics if they don't like abortions. why spend much time hanging around outside the clinics ? it's none of their the clinics? it's none of their business. i wouldn't say prayer harassment, but then we all have our own ideas on what is free. thank you for your contribution and thank you for all of your views that you sent in today. i really do appreciate it. now, you know, i like to end on the call week and course call for the week and of course is go taste sunday the third is go to taste sunday the third sunday and advent. oh, lord jesus christ, who are they first coming messenger to coming to send thy messenger to prepare before the that prepare thy way before the that the stewards of the ministers and stewards of mysteries likewise sow, mysteries may likewise sow, prepare and make ready thy way by turning the hearts of the

disobedient to the wisdom of the just that at thy his second coming to judge the world we may be found acceptable people in be found an acceptable people in by who live and reign us by sight who live and reign us with the father and the holy spirit of a one god world without end. amen. you have been watching common sense crusade with the reverend calvin with me. the reverend calvin robinson. to make robinson. i'll be back to make at 2 pm. now, not okoya is up next. but before that, here the weather forecast. have a good sunday less . and looking sunday asphalt less. and looking to this evening's weather, the u.k. looking cold with freezing fog and a risk of wintry showers in places. let's take a look at the details. wintry showers continuing a northern coast this evening . possible snow showers evening. possible snow showers over high ground. clear skies further , but patchy, freezing further, but patchy, freezing fog in the east and a widespread frost . a round of wintry showers frost. a round of wintry showers in the southeast bringing some snow inland. elsewhere, a widespread and patchy freezing fog once again dry with mostly clear skies . fog once again dry with mostly clear skies. this evening in south wales, a few wintry

showers possible of western coast light winds and a widespread frost expected there to staying mostly dry across the midlands later, although a few wintry showers are possible in the south. clear skies further north. the widespread frost again , patchy mist and freezing again, patchy mist and freezing fog in the. remaining dry across much of northern england although a few isolated wintry showers are possible at times below. freezing. patchy freezing fog once again . and a cold fog once again. and a cold evening in scotland where the continued risk of sleet and snow clear skies further southward spread frost, temperatures dropping tonight and, staying dry for much of northern ireland this evening. wintry showers continuing to affect northern and eastern coasts . skies and eastern coasts. skies further west and a mostly dry night for entire uk. wintry showers to the coasts, widespread frost and freezing fog by monday morning . and fog by monday morning. and that's how today's very cold weather is shaping up . you today weather is shaping up. you today join me every sunday at 6 pm.

for glory meets in interviews i'll be finding who our politicians really are and what they really think . it's they really think. it's something that we would never want to suffer. i didn't know what channels they were be. i didn't i'd be believe i'm mystified about seven state and i'm sorry for eight my instinct was to sort cover this up. i mean that was a. join me every sunday at 6 pm. on gp news. the people's britain's news.

channel hello. channel her.good channel hello. good afternoon and welcome this is gb news on tv and on digital radio . i'm nana