good evening. the cold weather has come with it. the highest energy prices ever seen on these islands. is it time for an energy rethink? we'll debate that. i've been away for a week. believe you me, the migrant crisis hasn't got any better. are there any solutions in sight? what do we do with the large number of albanians coming across? joining me for talking pints, mark littlewood, he's the boss of the iea and used to be the press officer for the liberal democrats. will be a few things to talk about there won't

that. but before we get to the show, let's get the news headunes show, let's get the news headlines poly middle east . nig headlines with poly middle east. nig story this hour, police have named seven people believed to have been killed following an explosion at a block of flats in jersey over the weekend. they are peter bowler , raymond brown are peter bowler, raymond brown , romo and luis almeida. are peter bowler, raymond brown , romo and luis almeida . derek , romo and luis almeida. derek and sylvia ellis and billy marston. five people are confirmed to have died following the blast in st helier. confirmed to have died following the blast in st helier . we'll the blast in st helier. we'll bnng the blast in st helier. we'll bring you more information on that as we get it. now royal strikes will continue into the christmas period after members of the rmt union rejected the latest pay offer put on the table. 63% of the union's members turned down a deal offered by network rail of a 5% pay offered by network rail of a 5% pay rise this year and a 4% pay rise next to 48 hour strikes will now go ahead this week, starting tomorrow . mp oliver

starting tomorrow. mp oliver dowden says all strikes should be called off. i think the best thing that could be done to minimise those risks we can't eliminate them altogether is for the strikes to be called off for and those unions to once again engage with the employers . engage with the employers. because i think it's only fair and reasonable that at a time when people are struggling both with the consequence of the situation in russia, ukraine, as we emerge from covid and indeed this winter weather. i don't think most people think it's fair and reasonable to undertake these strikes. my message to these strikes. so my message to them now, please them would be, even now, please call off . well our other call them off. well our other main story on gb news today , main story on gb news today, three young boys have died after falling through an icy lake in solihull yesterday. police say the children who were eight, ten and ii the children who were eight, ten and 11 years old were in cardiac arrest when they were pulled from the icy water in kings first. a fourth boy, aged six, remains in a critical condition in hospital . a lab technician

in hospital. a lab technician has been found guilty of murdering his work colleague at his parents home in leicestershire last year. ross mccullum pleaded guilty to the manslaughter of 23 year old meghan libra but claimed he couldn't be guilty of murder because he acted out of control due to undue egg nosed ptsd. the court heard how he tried to cover up the murder by hiding her clothes in bins. and professor his love for her. in a voicemail just 3 hours after he'd killed her, the second trailer of the duke and duchess of sussex is netflix docu series has been released with prince harry accusing some of lying to protect his brother . it's not protect his brother. it's not clear who he's referring to . he clear who he's referring to. he was also seen musing on what might have happened if he hadn't left the royal family. the latest three episodes will be released on thursday . there's released on thursday. there's the latest news headlines. you're up to date on tv, online and dab, plus radio with gb news. time now for thurrott .

news. time now for thurrott. good evening. well, i'm pleased to be back out of my week in the united states of america and the themes we're going to discussing and tonight are ones and debating tonight are ones that we've talked about for, well over a year because i've tried my absolute hardest to warn people that we have a real problem in our energy market. let's just remember the course that all of our political parties in westminster have set us on a reminder, if you like. he was boris johnson when he was prime minister at cop26, telling us about our energy future . it us about our energy future. it was the private sector that enabled the uk to end our dependence on coal, become the saudi arabia of wind . so that saudi arabia of wind. so that was interesting was that it was the private sector through renewables , meaning wind. mr.

renewables, meaning wind. mr. johnson didn't mention nobody ever mentions that none of it could have survived without tens of billions of pounds of tax payer subsidy. all of it loaded onto your bills . over the course onto your bills. over the course of the last 20 years and as well becoming the saudi arabia of wind we'll just got the east coast of england and you'll see huge numbers of wind turbines. all of it sounds wonderful , but all of it sounds wonderful, but there is ever such a slight problem when it gets cold and regular watches and listens to this show. might be bored with this show. might be bored with this by now because i've been telling you, if we get a cold spell , if we get a telling you, if we get a cold spell, if we get a big anti cyclone high pressure, we'll have maximum demand for power. we'll have high prices and we'll have very little bang produced by wind. in a moment, i'll tell you today, just how much wind energy as country it towards our electricity supply . and as for electricity supply. and as for the end of coal . boris johnson,

the end of coal. boris johnson, proud of the fact that no longer do we need coal, but we do need coal. apparently the guy has been given by the government for the anthracite mine in cumbria , the anthracite mine in cumbria, but goodness knows how long that will take actually come into will take to actually come into effect. we need coal. you can't make steel without anthracite coal. but we also hear today the government is getting ready to reopen to coal fired power stations and that is because there is a genuine threat that either the price becomes too high of buying in electricity or frankly, the lights go out. so my debate tonight, is it time to rethink our energy policy? i genuinely, passionately believe that it is. genuinely, passionately believe thatitis.i genuinely, passionately believe that it is. i can't think of a better moment with much of the country covered in snow when we should actually raise this debate it and discuss it. well, joining me is harry wilkinson. he's head of policy for net zero. what harry? over the decades , lots of talk about, you

decades, lots of talk about, you know, balance of energy , bits know, balance of energy, bits from nuclear and bits from this. some bits from that. i don't think people really have a full picture . i'm think people really have a full picture. i'm going to think people really have a full picture . i'm going to put think people really have a full picture. i'm going to put up on the screen now for you to have a look at and for our radio listeners. we will explain . this listeners. we will explain. this was the situation on national grid at 9:00 this morning on renewable bills, solar was producing the grand total of 0. all those solar panels we see harry in our farmers fields 0% and wind . 3.5. now i keep being and wind. 3.5. now i keep being told that the more wind turbines we build that actually it's going to be 30, 40, 50% of our energy needs. what went wrong this morning? well, i think politicians have treated our energy policy as if it was a popularity contest. we like wind. we like solar. so let's just build out those . they've just build out those. they've ignored the fact that actually

you need to provide agreed. that provides the energy when people need it. and what we've seen this winter is an increasingly tight energy margin and national grid have said they think it will cost between two an d £400 will cost between two and £400 million just to keep these two coal fired power stations on backup. now, it turns out this evening they weren't actually required, but we've seen record pnces required, but we've seen record prices yet . i mean, here's the prices yet. i mean, here's the point. i think that when wind goes down to 3.5% of the way, it can go lower than that, can't it? i mean, wind can go very, very low, close to 0% of our energy needs. and we've got a plan just to build it out larger and larger . plan just to build it out larger and larger. but we haven't dealt with that core problem of intermittency . that's the intermittency. that's the variability of wind. it can be as high as 60, but it can be as low as 0. and so this is leaving us with an increasingly expensive grid that meets all.

harry, i've been told , i've been harry, i've been told, i've been told by the green campaigners . told by the green campaigners. you're wrong, because we can store the electricity, but we were told that this would happen and people like net zero. what i'm the global warming policy foundation have been warning politicians that unless you deal with this problem, we're going to have these kind of very high pnces. to have these kind of very high prices . and we needed the prices. and we needed the storage to be ready now. we needed these policies to be ready now . and we were told, ready now. and we were told, don't worry. as wind grows, we'll have all these solutions. well, we're in a situation now where we've built a huge amount of wind and those solutions just haven't been ready. so to keep the lights on today , we've had the lights on today, we've had to burn a lot of gas. but we're also importing and this is the point i want to reinforce. we import electricity from norway, from france , from belgium. from france, from belgium. although the french supply is not as reliable as it was as they nuclear fleet gets older, i as a result of that , just tell as a result of that, just tell us what happened in simple

engush us what happened in simple english to energy prices today. well, a small gas power station in north london , not a big scale in north london, not a big scale one, was being charged with charging the national grid £6,000 per megawatt hour and thatis £6,000 per megawatt hour and that is a record for the balancing mechanism. and that's the national grid's system that they have to make sure that in real time supply is meeting demand . £6,000 per megawatt demand. £6,000 per megawatt houn demand. £6,000 per megawatt hour. what is the normal price of electricity? so the long term average was about 50 or of electricity? so the long term average was about 50 o r £60 per average was about 50 or £60 per megawatt hour . before this megawatt hour. before this energy crisis . so this is 100 energy crisis. so this is 100 times greater than we were seeing. just to assess what the national grid has paid to this company . and that in the end company. and that in the end comes down to us and consumers and will go on our bills. this will go on people's bills. and it's a symptom of complete chaos and complete crisis in our energy system. this is absolutely astonishing. folk at home in your cars , wherever you

home in your cars, wherever you are, get a handle on that. you know, we have paid today 100 times the normal price for electricity so that you can watch this programme boiler cattle run a hot shower this evening. it is truly , truly evening. it is truly, truly astonishing. i warned that it was going to happen . what are was going to happen. what are the prospects of the lights going out or is it going to be possible if we need to import that energy from the continent? well, even the national grid have said that we could see blackouts winter. however blackouts this winter. however they increasing ways in they do have increasing ways in which they can manage that. but we may see a brownouts, which is when they people to switch when they pay people to switch off. has enormous off. but that has enormous implications for the economy, because if industry can't operate, if they're getting operate, even if they're getting a price for that, this is a bad, bad situation to be in because cheap energy is at the heart of what makes a successful economy. and this kind approach where and this kind of approach where we essentially rationing electricity, we thought this would never happen again after the seventies. we should be in an era of progress. but what

we're seeing is a downward spiral , and we're seeing is a downward spiral, and it's borne out of wishful thinking and a failure to confront the trade—offs in energy policy. yes people want to see a greener future . that's to see a greener future. that's not entirely wrong , but we have not entirely wrong, but we have to be honest about the trade—offs involved. we have to be honest about what different technologies can provide and unless we do that, we're going to meet increasing difficulties , arrogance. and thank you very much indeed. and i'm just blown away by that all time record. price has been paid by national grid for electricity today. actually, it makes me angry. the virtue signalling and idealism of all political parties in westminster has no connection with reality. well today we hit that reality . let me know your that reality. let me know your thoughts. do we need a new thinking strategy on energy for roger gbnews.uk? in a moment, we'll talk about another total failure of government policy . failure of government policy. yes, we'll talk about the engush.

channel well, your thoughts on this astonishing energy mess, because , goodness me, 100 times the normal price being paid by national grid today, it is a mess. some of your thoughts, daryl says we absolutely should rethink energy policy, nigel, but it won't . it won't. while but it won't. it won't. while those in charge wetlands know they are committing it to something called net zero, they believe in it. you see, as people that believe in god anymore, they have to believe in something. and global warming has religion of has become the religion of westminster. me, i'm not westminster. believe me, i'm not wrong, stewart says . should have wrong, stewart says. should have happened years ago , but it happened years ago, but it didn't. one viewer says, without doubt , didn't. one viewer says, without doubt, energy is the didn't. one viewer says, without doubt , energy is the next doubt, energy is the next battleground . it is the battleground. it is the cornerstone of our economy and our prosperity . without energy, our prosperity. without energy, autonomy , we are beholden to autonomy, we are beholden to others . others without our best others. others without our best interests at heart. well, all of

thatis interests at heart. well, all of that is completely and utterly true. there's one piece of good news about all of this, and that is the public opinion on this is changing and changing quickly . changing and changing quickly. and i would like to think that since gb news launched and since i started covering this topic, i would like to think that we are helping to wake people up to the fact that is all well and good. it's all well good, having it's all well and good, having idealistic ideas . but we have to idealistic ideas. but we have to face practical reality. now, talking of idealism, there is a fella called justin welby. he's the archbishop of canterbury , the archbishop of canterbury, and he spoke to the house of lords about the cross—channel migration crisis last week. this is what he had to say. migration crisis last week. this is what he had to say . when is what he had to say. when migrants arrive here, our system is grossly wasteful in both human and financial terms . human and financial terms. control has become cruelty staggering, inefficient forces by successive governments . by successive governments. trapped people in limbo. at incredible expense to the taxpayer in the system . for taxpayer in the system. for years, unable to build a life or

to contribute to our society . to contribute to our society. well, that was archbishop welby. you see , we're being cruel. you see, we're being cruel. well, i agree, archbishop. we shouldn't be keeping people in ftx. maybe maybe the rents, maybe the rents. the savoy is not bad. it's been referred recently and he wants them to work. that's what welby saying. and if you allow people who come to the country through illegal means to work. to the country through illegal means to work . you've no idea means to work. you've no idea who you're letting in. and you're sending a signal, an open door to countless others. it doesn't make sense. but many other things have happened in the week i've been away, went out, told that whole day camps will be opened up. the ukrainian refugees and the homeless will be booted out because they going to be per capita than to be cheaper per capita than hotels. we've learnt in manchester published today by the telegraph that you have people living in these hotels commuting , people living in these hotels commuting, commuting to people living in these hotels commuting , commuting to work and commuting, commuting to work and getting 20, 30 quid a day in cash back handers, working as lookouts and otherjobs for

lookouts and other jobs for criminal gangs. don't say i didn't warn you about all of this. oh, the numbers over the weekend . yeah. don't worry about weekend. yeah. don't worry about the cold weather. a 315 across the cold weather. a 315 across the english channel on saturday. 240 across the english channel yesterday. we're told there are roughly 6000 waiting, but dunkirk area to cross at some point between now and christmas. if we get calm weather and the tough criminal charges, the government that will be brought in for those illegally trying to gain access to britain, well, so far, so far, the attempted prosecutions are running at 0.3 of 1. and rishi keep saying he keeps talking tough, he's going to deliver solutions. i'm not sure. but the icing on the cake is we now learn there's a border force strike. what does all that going to mean? well tony smith is the former boss of a border force , an international force, an international consultant borders . tony, consultant on borders. tony, we've heard a lot about nurses strikes and rail strikes . we strikes and rail strikes. we haven't heard much about border force strikes. are these at

gatwick and heathrow or will this affect dover, too? so they've announced selective ports of entry. nigel where they're going to strike, they're not single not striking at every single port. think the objective of port. i think the objective of the unions is to cause maximum disruption to travelling public. long queues at passport controls . so one of the unions has actually announced a strike that's the public and commercial services union. there is another union, nigel called the immigration service union, and i was there when they set that up, actually, which has a rather different philosophy, which is they're prepared they're not prepared to walk away completely away from the border completely because there are checks that are done still now at our ports, even on the boats. are checks done because we to do done because we have to do checks and screening on people. and think, and it would, i think, be fundamental wrong an officer fundamental wrong for an officer from border force to from the border force to walk away from duty . so i am away from that duty. so i am hopeful that the ports will still covered. i'm sorry for still be covered. i'm sorry for those passengers that are going to delayed. that would be to be delayed. that would be their though, to their strategy, though, is to actually more work to rule actually more like work to rule , passports very , check the passports very closely , sure really closely, make sure that really issue that photograph . they

issue that you photograph. they have it. these are all have all it. these are all things that going title to things that are going title to do. of course, they to do. but of course, they want to facilitate it as well. but i'm really they don't really hopeful. they don't all go nigel, because go on strike. nigel, because that a retrograde step. that would be a retrograde step. it's pay, of course, as it's about pay, of course, as all these are. well, all all these strikes are. well, all the public are the the public services are in the same position so i can same position and so i can understand yes, you understand why. yes, you know, i want a point of simon's want to make a point of simon's other public servants, but i think there's a real sense of duty about protecting us and protecting in the protecting the border in the border i think that border force. and i think that they at least. good. they owe us that at least. good. now i say, i've been away for now as i say, i've been away for a week. nothing changes other than the home office become more and desperate to find and more desperate to find accommodation as hotels are filling know filling up. we don't know the number, well over 300 number, but it's well over 300 now. are filled up now. hotels that are filled up around country. albanian around the country. the albanian question , i mean, this i think question, i mean, this i think this has changed the nature of the debate . you know, prior to the debate. you know, prior to july , the big argument was , july, the big argument was, well, maybe nigel, they could be legitimate refugees , to which legitimate refugees, to which i'd respond why they all young men but but now there are people coming from this side country of albania , it appears, tony , what

albania, it appears, tony, what are we doing? nothing what should what could we do ? so should what could we do? so i think you're right in the what we call the cohorts as a complex and of the people on the boats has changed significantly this year we heard from commander dynamo in the home affairs committee saying that actually a very significant number of those coming now actually come from albania, which isn't a country that's renowned for persecuting groups of its own nationals on grounds of religion or political opinion like syria or afghanistan may be. so i think that's a different kettle of fish, really . and we heard this fish, really. and we heard this before when i was in the uk border agency. we had something which was actually called a detained fast track process , detained fast track process, which meant that those people that were identified by triage on arrival . so they'd have to be on arrival. so they'd have to be brought ashore, looked at, looked after, make sure they're well, of those things that well, all of those things that we're obliged to do under safety in done very, in law to see are done very, very quickly by highly trained officers. but they don't necessarily into necessarily get sent on into a hotel or inland even. they would

be put in purpose built be put in a purpose built facility, detained in facility, detained, detained in a facility. the key word is, yes , because do have powers to , because we do have powers to detain entrants. they detain illegal entrants. they are illegal entries. a lot of lawyers will watching this, lawyers will be watching this, arguing word illegal. arguing about the word illegal. but thing as but there is such a thing as illegal entry and there is a power vested in the immigration at 71 detain illegal entrants at 71 to detain illegal entrants provided an eye on provided you've got an eye on removal. nigel you able removal. nigel you must be able to show a realistic to show there's a realistic prospect of removal. my contention that those cases contention that in those cases there is because there probably is because i think the asylum application, if it's made, is unfounded can it's made, is unfounded and can be be unfounded quite be proved to be unfounded quite quickly. issues quickly. there are other issues many claiming to be victims many are claiming to be victims of trafficking . i think if of human trafficking. i think if the right resources are put in there. but need to do there. but what you need to do is your enforcement is put your enforcement officers, force officers, your border force officers, your border force officers, casework officers, your casework officers. 24 officers. all right. there 24 seven in that facility. so this can be with really, really can be dealt with really, really quickly, an court, quickly, even an appeals court, if you need one, that will make sense away. but, you sense ten years away. but, you know, 1971, since then, we've had rights act, which had the human rights act, which of incorporated within of course, incorporated within it the european convention on human rights and various declarations of the united

nafions. declarations of the united nations . we also had the modern nations. we also had the modern slavery act , i the slavery act, which i think the tories are beginning to tories are now beginning to regret . is it regret having passed. is it possible to do these things? is it possible to deport people who've entered the country illegally in the eyes of border forces? you did in your day. is it possible to do it all the while? the human rights act is in place? well, this has been the problem has been this kind of judicial overreach of articles , international law, articles, international law, because like the convention on human rights, which, as you say, is now incorporated into into domestic legislation, human slavery laws, these are all well intentioned laws to protect us, ourselves, our own human rights and ourselves are not being victims. i think they've victims. but i think they've gone too far. nigel they've now actually opened the door to the kingdom and essentially, well, all do is make all you've got to do is make a claim under these these articles. there is a articles. so i think there is a case changing the law. i'm case for changing the law. i'm not so i don't know not a lawyer, so i don't know whether we actually completely demur from the convention or not. would want really not. but i would want really good were suella good lawyers if i were suella braverman bringing in the braverman i'd be bringing in the very, i mean, david davis

very, very i mean, david davis argues that in sweden, know argues that in sweden, you know , with this. but , they can deal with this. but of course, depends on the of course, it all depends on the judges. i don't think the judges. and i don't think the judges. and i don't think the judges have ever been on the side of border force of that. well, the judgements have been cool they were cool over the years. they were actually day actually nigel back in the day in seventies and eighties. in the seventies and eighties. we were empowered to do all kinds of by the courts in kinds of things by the courts in terms determining what terms of determining what an illegal been illegal entrant was. you've been a entrant after seeing a legal entrant after seeing an officer. produced false officer. if you produced a false passport or if you told lawyers, then that was all interpreted by then that was all interpreted by the being about too the courts as being about too much remove. so much to detain and remove. so have always been like that. have not always been like that. but think there's been this but i think there's been this last 20 what we call, you last 20 years, what we call, you know, successive judgements in europe the europe about, you know, the rights to go to rights of individuals to go to another , to claim human another country, to claim human rights, asylum . all of rights, to claim asylum. all of that absolutely swamped the that has absolutely swamped the case. workers in the home, they can't cope with it because faced with so many pressures that how are going to a case to a are you going to get a case to a conclusion, let alone onto an aircraft? it's a huge, huge effort. so they've got to match that they've to put that effort. they've got to put in caseworkers, enforcement officers, and

officers, good lawyers, and really invest. but it can be done. really invest. but it can be done . nigel, it's been done done. nigel, it's been done before looking ahead to 20, 23 and we've seen 8000 and a year , and we've seen 8000 and a year, 2020 become 28,000 and a year in 2021. we're just shy of 45,000 for this year. it'll be 50 by the end of the year. if we get some calm weather. i have no doubt about that. as we head towards next year, the government repeatedly talking tough, , nothing worth tough, delivering, nothing worth reminding everybody that those that come across the channel in nearly have already nearly every case have already crossed the mediterranean . i you crossed the mediterranean. i you know, i fought against that eu policy back in 2015. i thought it was a mistake. yeah. just bnng it was a mistake. yeah. just bring us up to speed . what's bring us up to speed. what's been happening in the mediterranean last few mediterranean in the last few months? the months? well, frontex, the european border agency, just released today. released new figures today. nigel to show increase nigel to show 68% increase on last year . over 300,000 now. last year. over 300,000 now. illegal entries detected at the external border . they're in the external border. they're in the same situation as , you know, same situation as, you know,

let's detect it. but they were admitted into the eu, a significant number are crossing the border. this schengen zone heading up towards calais. if the signal is still sent to migrants in the eu and outside and traffic is in the eu and outside, that the doors are open, more will come unless we can start showing real deterrent . and the only way to show a real deterrent in my experience, i've been doing this for a long time. nigel is to start returning people demonstrating to people. even the archbishop said, there's only so many said, look, there's only so many we take. if that's true , we can take. if that's true, then that we can't then there's some that we can't take. focus on them, take. we need to focus on them, not in terms of refusals, not just in terms of refusals, but removals. you know, the but removals. and you know, the media to out there media needs to be out there covering sent back covering people being sent back that to go on. tik tok that needs to go on. tik tok that needs to go on facebook. when people start waking up to the is a waste of the fact that this is a waste of my time, the fact that this is a waste of my time , ,5,000 someone to my time, ,5,000 to someone to nearly the english nearly drowned in the english and temperatures. and freezing temperatures. and then into iran and it's then i'm back into iran and it's a of a no brainer. that's a bit of a no brainer. that's how you break the model that you break it up. tony smith, thank you very indeed. you

you very much indeed. and you know, political side of know, on the political side of this, some very interesting comments. know, david davis, comments. you know, david davis, you senior you know, respected senior conservative member of parliament, on parliament, regularly appears on this . and made the this show. and davis made the comment the weekend, if we comment at the weekend, if we don't this, will all don't solve this, we will all lose seats. referring to lose our seats. referring to conservatives in north of conservatives in the north of england . in a moment, we'll move england. in a moment, we'll move on to some other topics. we'll talk about corruption in brussels . oh, yes, we . complain about it? do you go to them? do you go the christmas market? yeah, i went to one in kings cross. it was tiny the mulled wine was i had like about three gulps and it was gone £6.50. you know, that's expensive well it sounds it listen , i'm very excited because listen, i'm very excited because i'm back . i'm listen, i'm very excited because i'm back. i'm looking after listen, i'm very excited because i'm back . i'm looking after mark i'm back. i'm looking after mark

steyn show on wednesday and thursday. so i'll be on air from eight on wednesday and thursday . but headliners is next and leo cos he's in the hot seat. hey leo, what's happening. oh man. we've got a great show tonight on headliners 11 pm. i'm going to be with comedians kerry marks and paul cox. we'll be going through tomorrow's top stories and, some stupid stories as well. we've got the albanian protesters who i don't know if you remember that they complained being stereotyped as criminals. well it turns out they were criminals . those are they were criminals. those are they were criminals. those are

the guys who drink the flag. over over. winston churchill's statue . there are people statue. there are people smugglers , new zealand and the smugglers, new zealand and the other side of . the globe has other side of. the globe has rejected a refugee for being too fat , even though she's been fat, even though she's been vaccinated and labour are trying to roll brexit. if they get into power . so yeah stick around to roll brexit. if they get into power. so yeah stick around and watch it you might as well because you're not going to go to work tomorrow because of this new cannot wait for this show the brilliant leo kearse is next. i'm back on wednesday at and of course back next weekend

as well thanks to the team, to my brilliant panel and most importantly, you at home. take care and stay warm . looking care and stay warm. looking ahead to tomorrow's weather and the uk is looking very cold with a severe frost freezing fog in places and some wintry showers. will well, much of the country , not well, much of the country, not all but much of the country did come to a standstill at 7:00 on saturday. the world cup football quarterfinal against france and it was a very, very disappointing result. poor old harry kane, the captain, missing that second penalty. it's always penalties, isn't it? it's normally extra time battles as this one was quite close to full

time. so great disappointment . time. so great disappointment. but i have to say , although but i have to say, although england played really, really well and i like this team because you know what? it's not full of prima donnas . it's not full of prima donnas. it's not full of prima donnas. it's not full of prima donnas. it's not full of yobs . full of prima donnas. it's not full of yobs. it seems to full of prima donnas. it's not full of yobs . it seems to work full of yobs. it seems to work together . they behave themselves together. they behave themselves and the manager has bought some dignity and respectability to football . and he may be a bit football. and he may be a bit cautious at times, but i very much hope that gareth southgate stays. by contrast , cricket has stays. by contrast, cricket has been completely transformed in britain by that man , ben stokes, britain by that man, ben stokes, since he became captain . he's since he became captain. he's virtually won every single test match. we've literally lost one since he became captain. another stunning victory in pakistan in the early hours of this morning. i got to say, ben stokes is a blooming hero. i very much hope he wins. sports personality of the year. he leads from the front . he truly is a the year. he leads from the front. he truly is a giant. the year. he leads from the front . he truly is a giant. now, front. he truly is a giant. now, for those that don't like sport. i'm really, really sorry, but i just had to say that . well, the just had to say that. well, the what? the farage moment . 16

what? the farage moment. 16 apartments in brussels raided by the police on saturday morning. they were the apartments of mep's and a couple of former meps in the european parliament, mostly from the socialist group. ,600,000 in votes for ireland in . ,600,000 in votes for ireland in those . four people have those raids. four people have been arrested. one of them a senior political figure. a she is a vice president of the european parliament. the thought is that the money has come from qatar , i'm told from brussels qatar, i'm told from brussels tonight by several sources . tonight by several sources. expected to be many more raids on brussels officials to come out over the course of the next few days . and i feel this very few days. and i feel this very personally because for years myself and my colleagues were put through hell by olaf. the fraud office of the european parliament. i went through five big inquiries. even since we,

the european union, i had another legal case , very another legal case, very expensive legal bill to prove my innocence after i was accused of misusing public funds. they neven misusing public funds. they never, ever found that i had . never, ever found that i had. but funny, isn't it? every time there was an investigation , they there was an investigation, they told the times newspaper before they told me. and yet all of this has been going on at the heart of brussels for years. never mind someone. news moving to brussels . never mind someone. news moving to brussels. this never mind someone. news moving to brussels . this should cheer to brussels. this should cheer you all up. former prime minister tony blair, who two weeks ago told the labour party that it was very important for britain and for the labour to have a policy of up mirroring rules that are made in the european union. well, his own company , his own consulting firm company, his own consulting firm , is setting up a lobby office in brussels so that he can help to shift and change eu legislation . mr. blair's company legislation. mr. blair's company , a not for profit company , you

, a not for profit company, you understand, had revenues . of £66 understand, had revenues. of £66 billion last year. i'm sure agree there is absolutely no potential conflict of interest . potential conflict of interest. what so ever . potential conflict of interest. what so ever. now that potential conflict of interest. what so ever . now that world potential conflict of interest. what so ever. now that world war ii generation thought by many to be the greatest generation , be the greatest generation, well, they are disappearing very quickly. and we learned at the end of last week of the death of johnny johnston, 617 squadron finished up as a squadron leader, got the distinguished flying cross. he was the last man on those dambusters raids, and he died at the age of 101. and what was remarkable about johnson wasn't just long career in the air force, wasn't just that he survived the great war in bomber command because about 50% of those that served didn't . it was his actions on that particular night. . it was his actions on that particular night . they were told particular night. they were told they had to fly at 60 feet all they had to fly at 60 feet all the way over occupied europe . the way over occupied europe.

they trained at 200 feet. but the germans had a new form of radar. so at 60 feet they flew all the from the north sea coast to the dams . three of the to the dams. three of the aircraft hit pylons on the way with all of the crews killed . with all of the crews killed. even more remarkably , johnson's even more remarkably, johnson's plane that was to bomb the saw paid them . unlike the mona and paid them. unlike the mona and the ida , which were breached the ida, which were breached with a bouncing bomb. this was a big heavy bomb that had to be dropped directly on a dam built of earth . and here's the most of earth. and here's the most incredible part of the story as the lankester , the salt bay dam the lankester, the salt bay dam , it will only 30 feet above the dam, and yet johnson as bobby moore lying flat his stomach in the nose cone of the lankester he had be comfortable the when he had be comfortable the when he pressed the they were in the right place . it wasn't until the right place. it wasn't until the plane made its 10th round 10th run towards that dam that johnson was pleased with the

positioning press, the button on the bomb landed right in the middle of the dam in the perfect place . i can only imagine what place. i can only imagine what the rest of the crew must have been thinking. they must have been thinking. they must have been thinking. they must have been thinking this man is risking our life making us do this again and again. risking our life making us do this again and again . after the this again and again. after the raid, johnson described the whole thing as being exhilarating . i find stories exhilarating. i find stories like this utterly extraordinary. i wonder what today's young men go and do the same thing. i'm not sure that i know the answer . in a moment, i'm going to sit down. i going to do talking pints with my uncle mark littlewood. now he got a puppy from oxford university. he joined the liberal democrat arts. he was a fanatical europe and federalist, but he's been through a damascene conversion . through a damascene conversion. i'd enjoy having a drink with him in just a moment.

it's that time of the day, my favourite time of the day. i'm joined by mark littlewood, the director general of the of economic affairs. mark welcome. cheers. nigel talking points. now you know you're background. i mean it's not the kind of background that i normally get on with all that well it's all oxford has got to be oxford obviously you know you're not you're absolutely right. yeah. i mean the truth is that building over there behind us, the palace of westminster, it seems to be star stuff full of people that did pippa bailey and other colleges like that at oxford and you're one of them. when i first met you . when i first met you met you. when i first met you and it would have been about 2004, i think , or five, we were 2004, i think, or five, we were in the same restaurant and there was a terrace . we were having was a terrace. we were having dnnks was a terrace. we were having drinks on the terrace and somebody whispered in my ear, that bloke over there , he's head that bloke over there, he's head of press for the liberal

democrat that you would rise to a low level? well, i wasn't rude to it. no, no, i wasn't rude. that's very, very fair. you know, initially kept my distance. but you said hello. i said hello and we were perfectly reasonable and perfectly friendly as it should be. i agree. i wish more of it was. but you were very much on a different side of the fence of all of this. i mean, you as a student at all, wasn't he work for the european movement? and yeah, the federalist groups you really believed in the european project? did. and i think project? i did. and i think there is something quite attractive about it. so a sort of classical liberal person in concepts, at least you've seen the guts of a coal face module, but as a, as a kind of concept, you know, can we remove barriers between countries? can we make absolutely sure that we don't go to war again ? can we make sure to war again? can we make sure that if you can sell something legally in the netherlands, that you can sell it legally in the united kingdom, remove those barriers to entry , all of that

barriers to entry, all of that sort of liberalising part of the european union, hugely appealed to me, sort of rather like john lennon's song imagine. imagine yes, you can appreciate how the young was seduced by this later this kind of dream. and but i think even in practical economic terms, it potentially has, you know, something to commend it, though. i mean, you and i are both basically traders, right? yes. there's a question of how you about free trade and you bring about free trade and where i became more and more suspicious about the project and eventually for eventually decided to vote for leave in the brexit referendum. was it struck me that the sort of liberalising instincts of the eu, which i'm never saying, were 100% of the story, but we're getting wholly out trumped by the interfering elements the the interfering elements of the eu . this is the point, isn't it eu. this is the point, isn't it , that you are what i would a classical liberal. it's a species that almost become extinct. i know we're rarities because you know the word liberal today . younger people liberal today. younger people listening to this, watching this. the word liberal today means they want ban everything,

controlled everything . they seem controlled everything. they seem to love big business, don't like small business, believe in supranational institutions, don't think national parliamentary democracy matters very much at all. whereas a classical liberal takes a very different view. yeah it's exactly right. and i've always considered myself a kind of old fashioned liberal. gladstone. gladstone the liberal. i mean, i think margaret thatcher was basically a gladstone in liberal. i think in many ways you're a gladstone in liberal, so i don't want the government to control too much of the economy and i guess some people economy. and i guess some people would say, that tilting would say, well, that tilting towards right in the towards the right in the old fashioned economic sort of lexicon i lower taxes. lexicon that i lower taxes. please, not too much heavy handed regulation. not sure politicians are very good at spending the people's money. people better spending people better at spending themselves, stuff. but themselves, all that stuff. but i'm liberal on i'm also very liberal on personal freedom. so i mean, i think what you do with your life, how you choose to live your life, what you drink, how much drink of those much you drink or all of those sort of things should to

sort of things should be left to individuals as and you're individuals as well. and you're right, that's right, unfortunately, that's a rather i mean, rather rare mix. i mean, increasingly, actually, all of the mainstream political parties seem control our seem to want to control our lives terms of what adverts lives in terms of what adverts we watch, whether we can watch, whether a chocolate can chocolate orange can be displayed a certain place in displayed in a certain place in the sun. it's a of puritanism. it really is . that is correct. it really is. that is correct. and yet you're also , of course, and yet you're also, of course, with brother. what i've got with big brother. what i've got to tell you . well, you know, to tell you. well, you know, smart motorways. well, i was on one last night in kent . smart motorways. well, i was on one last night in kent. i normally complain that don't actually when i'm driving on smart motorways, i don't look at the road at all, not looking at the road at all, not looking at the cameras. yeah, yeah, the speed cameras. yeah, yeah, yeah. like in yeah. because it's like being in china, know, and, and even china, you know, and, and even when the conditions are good, that's setting you 50 last night wi five or six inches of snow on the m20 . they were saying we the m20. they were saying we could go at 60. well, was could go at 60. well, i was doing 15. well, i was the doing 15. well, i was in the outside light looked outside light on what looked like outside light, but like the outside light, but it's, it's , it really is it's, it's, it's, it really is a funny one because i wonder the state has got bigger and bigger at a speed that i simply cannot

believe. the conservative party appear to me at least to have embraced the idea that we will look after you , you know, from look after you, you know, from the moment of conception until your death and we know what is absolutely best for you . we absolutely best for you. we thought the boris johnson was kind of a libertarian , really, kind of a libertarian, really, because of the columns he wrote for the daily telegraph, no doubt. not so much . but my worry doubt. not so much. but my worry is this so i always think you can turn things around. i always think that a bad economy can become a good economy. there's much can i really worry much you can do. i really worry that we're not going to reverse the size of a state and its interference in our lives by being too pessimistic. are you are so the first person to drop that ? i currently have as the that? i currently have as the director general of the iea was a guy called ralph harris, lord harris a great man , terrific. harris a great man, terrific. and in i think it was about the mid 1970s, someone put to him roughly the role of a pessimist

stick scenario that you've put to me. you know what are you doing at the iea wasting your time? i mean, all these companies are still nationalised. the trade unions hold the whip hand . it's you hold the whip hand. it's you know, it's all going to just get worse and worse and worse. and. harris responded saying, harris responded by saying, cheer , things can only get cheer up, things can only get worse . and actually what he worse. and actually what he meant about that, which is slightly depressing for its only when things get really, really bad that get an inflexion bad that you get an inflexion point people actually point that people actually really way we're doing really think the way we're doing things the moment is not things at the moment is not working at all and i mean, that inflexion point could come in a million different directions. i'm not saying my classical liberal side of the argument can win, but think we're beginning win, but i think we're beginning to sort of to get to that sort of everything in britain doesn't seem anymore the seem to work anymore on the broken ist. broken list. i'm a broken ist. even the that aren't on even the bits that aren't on strike like the m20 last year hadnt strike like the m20 last year hadn't been sorted by kent county council. don't ask me why, knew several why, but we all knew several inches were going to inches the snow were going to fall mass strikes fall. we've got mass strikes about to happen in a in a wider

range of sectors and happened simultaneously back in the winter of discontent of 78. so yeah this could be worse than the 78. some benign winter of discontent for sure. so this is this is broken bread . it is this is broken bread. it is broken britain. i mean, i'm trying to think of, you know, which of our economy are which parts of our economy are working. of it's working. well, some of it's functioning . i mean, is it functioning. i mean, is it motorway just about functions the service . it the national health service. it lost functions , but it's lost functions, but it's difficult to actually think of a sector of our economy where we think, oh, we're going gangbusters on that area. you know, isn't it amazing ? you know, isn't it amazing? you know, isn't it amazing? you know, advances that we're know, the advances that we're making isn't incredible how the national health service is so much better than it was 15 years ago. you'd hear anybody ago. you'd never hear anybody saying and i think this saying that. and i think this has of has been an accumulation of government inch by inch, steady , step by step, getting bigger and bigger and bigger. and it just sort of catches up when you don't really notice it happening at the time. it's a bit like somebody standing on the banks of thames here and of the river thames here and just pebble in every just throwing a pebble in every second. not any one pebble makes a difference not any one

government intervention or tiny little tax rise makes a difference. but if you do it long you start to stem long enough, you start to stem the flow of the river. you the thames, would not flow as neatly as should. and that's what as it should. and that's what we've up we've done. we just ratchet up taxes , regulation . we've fallen taxes, regulation. we've fallen into the trap of believing that government intervention is the solution , too. yeah, that's solution, too. yeah, that's right. yeah increasingly, something annoys me and i want to make sure i communicate this correctly and just talk about vulnerable people. now they're all vulnerable people in society , but to listen to most politicians, you would assume it's an overwhelming majority of people . not. people. it's not. it's a minority. most british people, in my view, are resilient, not vulnerable . so we need to look vulnerable. so we need to look after the vulnerable. but it sort of suits politicians to try and imagine we're all vulnerable. tell us what vote. tell us where victim exactly says victims we need says we're victims and we need the come and help us. the state to come and help us. so we've got we've got to get all ratchet. now, institute all ratchet. now, the institute of said, of economic, as you said, founded by ralph harris, been around very, very long around a very, very long time. i mean, basically lobbyists

mean, you're basically lobbyists for you? no for business, aren't you? no quite . well, that's quite the opposite. well, that's what your critics say. well, critics all of things fall critics all sorts of things fall far than that. but you've far ruder than that. but you've just said that. i mean, we believe in market economics. we actually think if leave actually think if you leave people their own choices people to make their own choices and you allow the market to function and in most function by and large, in most cases in most sectors, you cases and in most sectors, you get better outcomes if you get better outcomes than if you leave politicians to sort leave it to politicians to sort out what should happen . out what should happen. knowledge is spread throughout the economy. individuals know better what they want than the mp knows what they want and business and free markets are very , very different things. very, very different things. i think actually big business is often lobbying for a lot of state intervention, pull up the drawbridge. so we've used to all of these complex regulation since we want to keep them in place . so we can't so in place. so we can't so in resurgence and upstarts don't come and challenges kwasi kwarteng was talking your language yeah. kwarteng and truss i think basically did the medical diagnosis pretty well. i mean, i've likened it to this. i sort of understood the patient

had, i don't know , a brain had, i don't know, a brain tumour, but they're not. fortunately they took a hacksaw to the patients brain and the medical diagnosis was basically correct that we are too heavily taxed . we've had lamentable taxed. we've had lamentable growth rates because of that and heavy handed regulation , a sort heavy handed regulation, a sort of a sense that things are just sluggishly going to get worse. so i think that analysis was correct. but i mean , books will correct. but i mean, books will be written about this. they acted rather too quickly, to rather rashly. they didn't really have a plan for bringing pubuc really have a plan for bringing public expenditure down, but i don't think it will be long before we return to that diagnosis. i don't which politician will be. i hope, politician it will be. i hope, i think will happen in future think will happen in the future . all right. and you'll be campaigning it and away from campaigning for it and away from worrying policy, worrying about public policy, what things what are the fun things littlewood to do? well littlewood likes to do? well i mean, you've already mentioned on show football on the show on football obsessed. i mean, saturday obsessed. so i mean, saturday was heartbreaking, obsessed. so i mean, saturday was heartbreaking , not obsessed. so i mean, saturday was heartbreaking, not just to lose, having played well, but you could sort of see england won game, could well have won that game, could well have gone the entire gone on to win the entire tournament for the first time. my and probably

my lifetime and we probably would the favourites would have been the favourites most now france will win most likely now france will win it, but just terrible , terrible it, but just terrible, terrible opportunity. missed when the regular season's only been interrupted. now i'm a staunch supporter of southampton football club, which a bit like saturday, nigel rather proves she football is not about glory. it's about paying. well, we were down. we did a fair roger large from southampton . and just the from southampton. and just the other week, of course , on the other week, of course, on the show talking points , sitting show on talking points, sitting in that chair in southampton in that chair or in southampton was odd, as you know , was look odd, as you know, malassezia. what a hair right by the river. thank you forjoining the river. thank you for joining us to talking pints . okay, it's us to talking pints. okay, it's time for barrage. the barrage what have you got for me today, mickey asks. our government seem to be in a state of paralysis. few people want a labour government . but is it now government. but is it now unavoidable , bill? i think it is unavoidable, bill? i think it is . it may be. support for labour is not as specially strong, but

this guy is not jeremy corbyn. what's he going to do? what's worse, the conservatives, is he going to allow boats to cross the channel is he going to put taxes i don't know. but is taxes up? i don't know. but is it this labour said i'm a betting nigel, and think betting man, nigel, and i think the bookmakers put labourjust the bookmakers put labour just odds to majority , but odds on to win a majority, but very to be the biggest very likely to be the biggest party probably party that's probably right. i think conservatives are think the conservatives are going a 10% chance going to have about a 10% chance of next government. of forming the next government. yeah sounds about right to. yeah, yeah. and course yeah, yeah, yeah. and of course with majority or with a narrow majority or support lib dems would support for the lib dems would get representation. get proportional representation. also whole would also the whole game would change. for one more. one change. time for one more. one viewer i think the house of viewer ask. i think the house of lords is an expensive waste of time. agree ? and if you time. do you agree? and if you had a second chamber, in what form? i think the whole thing's become an absurd disgrace. it has to elected. it will has to be elected. it will challenge the commons. mark, 20 seconds that. well yeah, it's seconds on that. well yeah, it's an oddity. this, isn't it? it is an oddity. this, isn't it? it is an waste of time. the an expensive waste of time. the most important thing is not to replace with an more replace with an even more expensive , even waste tax expensive, even bigger waste tax . if you going to have two

chambers, which i like, chambers, which i quite like, because system you've got because as a system you've got to you've got to to understand and you've got to have theory what makes have a theory about what makes them you can't just them different. you can't just have house of have sorted out two house of commons, senate and the commons, the senate and the house of representatives in america do that rather well. there's there's more there's more to do. there's more to but at the moment, the to do. but at the moment, the way without talking way i mean, without talking about in my twenties being about piers in my twenties being about piers in my twenties being a getting a point of view, getting ridiculously. mark, you ridiculously. mark, thank you for your help. davies i'll be back chair live back in this very chair live with you tomorrow evening at 7:00. that, it's patrick 7:00. before that, it's patrick christys. indeed . now i've christys. it is indeed. now i've got loads coming your way. i'm, of course, filling in for the wonderful mark steyn. i of wonderful mark steyn. i think of all the i've done here all the shows i've done here on jb news. might be my jb news. this might be my favourite. the fear of being favourite. yes the fear of being called specifically called racist specifically islamophobia is that actually is that actually stopping us deaung that actually stopping us dealing with genuine issues such as radicalisation or education system and of course, most notably grooming gangs? there's little investigation taking place into ngozi fulani . now all place into ngozi fulani. now all may be was not quite as it seemed that people like nigel were calling that out before anyone else, and maybe just,

maybe we have samantha says for you that and harry and meghan the latest, should they be the very latest, should they be stripped that title of accuse stripped of that title of accuse the royal family of gaslighting. i whether they're i wonder whether or not they're the gaslighting make the ones gaslighting us. make sure i will here sure you tune in. i will be here in matter of moments. in just a matter of moments. filling for side. i tell filling in for mark side. i tell you, here . good evening. i'm you, i'm here. good evening. i'm alex deakin and this is your latest weather update from the alex deakin and this is your late:office. 1er update from the alex deakin and this is your late:office. therpdate from the alex deakin and this is your late:office. the colde from the alex deakin and this is your late:office. the cold weather1e met office. the cold weather will through week. will continue through this week. ice and frost will be prevalent and the potential for a bit more snow in some areas. the uk is kind of surrounded by a low pressure but not really having a direct hit on the uk. we just staying in the cold condition with snow showers around the edges, but some heavy snow falling at the moment because shetland and the snow showers will work into the mainland of northern scotland overnight because where we because the southeast where we had the snow last night could be really icy here. elsewhere really quite icy here. elsewhere where most places dry, some misty, murky conditions persisting over central areas, but many places clear. persisting over central areas, but many places clear . and that but many places clear. and that will lead it to turn cold, minus five, minus six, even in some

towns and cities, negative double figures across scotland, perhaps as —20 in some perhaps as low as —20 in some locations . more snow showers locations. more snow showers coming in here well. so ice coming in here as well. so ice and is a risk in the and snow is a risk in the morning over northern scotland. still potentially across the still potentially icy across the southeast. first thing and then a showers just drift into a few showers just drift into southeast north—east a few showers just drift into southeaslater north—east a few showers just drift into southeaslateron north—east a few showers just drift into southeaslater on theyyrth—east a few showers just drift into southeaslater on they could ast a few showers just drift into southeaslater on they could have england later on they could have some mixed in. otherwise, a some snow mixed in. otherwise, a largely dry day , reasonably largely dry day, reasonably bright , but temperatures largely dry day, reasonably bright, but temperatures again struggling to much above struggling to get much above freezing. it will feel cold, particularly pick up particularly the winds pick up in southwest. now here in the southwest. now here we are at wet weather are looking at some wet weather just during the just pushing in during the course of tuesday evening. this will be a mixture of rain, sleet and snow difficult to say how far it's going to and far rain it's going to get and therefore how snow we are therefore how much snow we are going but could be going to see. but it could be some the south during some across the south during tuesday and wednesday tuesday night and into wednesday morning, icy here morning, potentially icy here again. wednesday morning again. then on wednesday morning , snow showers coming in , further snow showers coming in across and across northern scotland and a few more just coming down the east of england as well. east coast of england as well. snow low levels . we could see snow at low levels. we could see a few centimetres snow and a few centimetres of snow and more that over the hills. more than that over the hills. but be very hit and

but they will be very hit and miss again. for most places, it's dry . on wednesday, largely it's dry. on wednesday, largely sunny conditions , but cold with sunny conditions, but cold with the wind accentuate in the cold, particularly across northern of scotland. so staying cold this week, do have warnings in week, we do have warnings in place . see the met office place. see the met office website for details on .

you would gb news headliners is next. first, let's bring you up to date with the latest top stories. and nurses are set to go on strike in their first ever national action from thursday after talks between the union and the health secretary failed this evening. the royal college of nursing had requested a 19% pay of nursing had requested a 19% pay rise for its members , but pay rise for its members, but the general secretary claims steve barclay refused to even discuss pay with her during their meeting . mr. barclay says their meeting. mr. barclay says he agreed to the recommendations of the independent pay review