hello there 6:00 michelle dewberry and is dewbs& co the show that we'll get into.7 so some of the things that have got you talking today, i'll tell you, got joanna lumley talking, you, got joanna lumley talking, you know, the for pop she you know, the for my pop she reckons we've got a problem victimhood in this country she reckons we're turning into a nafion reckons we're turning into a nation of pathetic people see how desperately something to feel . you know wherever pressure feel. you know wherever pressure and this this is a problem that's the problem. he's abused me this that there is a do you agree with her.7 are me this that there is a do you agree with her? are we a bit a pathetic nation or not? and you know my show, don't you don't

get into the whole harry and meghan so that is not appearing this show but what is appearing instead is food banks you know did you watch my programme yesterday talking about, yesterday we were talking about, you the sentencing keeps you know, the sentencing keeps getting trotted out about nurses to use food banks . it got me to use food banks. it got me wondering. it got you talking about the situation with food banksin about the situation with food banks in this country. has this now all become almost politically weaponised a sentence, so—and—so needs to go to a food bank? do you think people perhaps taking advantage of food banks? and do you think that those people that really desperately do need that level of help are getting service and support that they need. and the fast tribunal all is being published today about whether or a care home was right to be able to sack some of its workers for refusing to have the covid vaccine , it ruled. yes, it was vaccine, it ruled. yes, it was absolutely fine for the employer to do so . what do you make to to do so. what do you make to that world in impacts and implications that going forward

? i think it was a huge overstretch. i still is to try and demand that anyone should ever be injected with anything you agree or not. and what is a woman, i mean, is the question. that's what everyone's stumped it seems to be in the public eye. people used to be able to answer easily. nowadays, not so much. dictionary is on much. well, a dictionary is on hand understand it. hand to help you understand it. they've changed their definition, or at least to definition, or at least added to it to say that now could be it to say that now it could be anyone that anyone quite, frankly, that identifies such. what are you saying to that ? i personally saying to that? i personally think it's bonkers . saying to that? i personally think it's bonkers. i'm missing something. tell me . but first something. tell me. but first off, let's bring ourselves up to speed what's a nice latest headunes. speed what's a nice latest headlines . michel thank you and headlines. michel thank you and good evening to you. the man who murdered a law graduate in east london in june has been sentenced to life in prison , sentenced to life in prison, will serve a minimum term of 38 years. jordan mcsween , he years. jordan mcsween, he pleaded guilty to the murder of zahra , but he refused to leave

zahra, but he refused to leave his cell for sentencing, saying he didn't want to watch video evidence of his actions . evidence of his actions. mcsweeney was caught on following at least two other women before attacking the 35 year old as she walked home from a night out in ilford after sentencing miss aunt said the family live with a profound loss . sarah's life was instantly and brutally crushed . and today, brutally crushed. and today, like every day, we live with the horror she was forced to . face horror she was forced to. face sarah was the light, horror she was forced to. face sarah was the light , the warmth sarah was the light, the warmth , the birdsong , the laughter in , the birdsong, the laughter in our family family , we live with our family family, we live with a profound loss each day and each day are destroyed a little more . sara alina's aunt, more. sara alina's aunt, speaking emotionally after verdict this afternoon outside

the old bailey. well, in other news today, gb news has been up to four people may still be missing in the english channel after a small boat capsized in icy waters . four people lost icy waters. four people lost their lives and 43 others were rescued after attempting to cross the english channel. the search operations to continue until at least nine this evening. the home secretary says the tragedy shows , how important the tragedy shows, how important it is to new legislation to deter crossings. these the days that we dread crossing channel in unseaworthy vessels is a lethality dangerous endeavour. it's it is for this reason above all that are working so hard to destroy the business model of the people smugglers , evil the people smugglers, evil organised criminals to treat human beings as cargo . now the human beings as cargo. now the prime minister asked a lawyer investigating allegations

against dominic raab to consider new formal complaint points. the deputy prime minister is now facing eight allegations, all relating his time at the ministry justice. mr. raab has previously denied the claims. labouris previously denied the claims. labour is calling for his suspension while the investigation is underway . now investigation is underway. now downing street is urging the royal college of nursing and ambulance workers unions to protect patients during tomorrow's historic nhs strikes . comes after the prime minister . the government's support for nurses pmqs nursing staff . a nurses pmqs nursing staff. a walkout in england, wales and, northern ireland on thursday unless a deal can be agreed . mr. unless a deal can be agreed. mr. sunak says the government has tried to give them the support they need. last year, whenever else in the public sector had a pubuc else in the public sector had a public sector pay freeze , the public sector pay freeze, the nurses received a 3% pay rise . nurses received a 3% pay rise. when they asked and asked for in—work training. we every nurse and midwife a £1,000 training

budget and when they ask for nurses, bursaries , we made sure nurses, bursaries, we made sure that every nursing student received a £5,000 groan. that's because we do work constructively and we will continue to back our nurses . but continue to back our nurses. but labour leader sir keir starmer says the conservatives can't cope with the of industrial action after 12 years of tory failure . winter has arrived for failure. winter has arrived for our public and we've got a prime who has curled up in a and gone into hibernation . if he contacts into hibernation. if he contacts on behalf of patient notes or nurses or everyone he wants these strikes called off. then surely the whole country is entitled to ask what he's the point of pain and what is the point of pain and what is the point of pain and what is the point of the government is supposed be leading now around half of britain's rail lines are closed today as rmt members staged their second day of strikes across the country. thousands of workers network

rail and 14 other train companies have all walked out leaving . some parts of the uk leaving. some parts of the uk with no train services at all. it's part of a long running dispute over pay , jobs and dispute over pay, jobs and conditions and it comes after the rmt rejected an offer of a 5% pay rise this year with another 4% next. six chinese officials, including the consul general, have been removed from the uk over an incident involving a hong kong pro—democracy . bob chan pro—democracy. bob chan demonstrating on the grounds of the consulate in manchester when was attacked in october. the foreign secretary james cleverly . the government made it clear that china must take action against diplomats. that china must take action against diplomats . you up to against diplomats. you up to date on tv online and dab+ radio with gb news. back now to dewbs & co .

& co. thanks for that, paul. i've got to say of you emailing in, you're very quick off the mark. you saying you could have me and paul having a little affair chat just before the start of the show? it was polly and i polly was saying she, wants to come and sit next to me when she does the news headlines. but i think headlines. but polly, i think that probably like that i'll probably be like beauty overload will probably break screens or something of my birth next other, birth sat next to each other, don't you think. and i got to say luckily there was no choice words. i think off words. i think we got off lightly that so sorry lightly with that one. so sorry if could hear us away if you could hear us away beforehand . anyway, i am with beforehand. anyway, i am with you until 7:00 this evening alongside keeping me company. these two. lucky so—and—so as you do get. you do get to say all the way so close to me or you're not within hitting distance. if i disagree with you. we've got a bit of distance between us. the two gents i refer to as my panel, nigel nelson, the political of the sunday people the sunday people and him the director the free speech director of the free speech union. younger. good union. toby younger. good evening, gentlemen. you are very

welcome, as you are as well at home. it's not just about what i say. every night on site, about you at home as well. want to know what is on your mind tonight? you can get in touch with me. gb news gbnews.uk is the email or you can tweet me gb news. i try best to read as many of your emails and tweets out and last night if you were watching, we onto the topic of foodbanks and. i got such a response from you at home. i was saying that actually think they're getting quite weaponised . the usage of foodbanks . so . the usage of foodbanks. so many of you were in so the point where actually i thought you know what i'm going to visit this topic properly tonight. that coming up later on that will be coming up later on in programme as well. but in the programme as well. but first off, are we a pathetic nafion? first off, are we a pathetic nation? i'm asking you this because lumley, a lady because joanna lumley, a lady that of will know and that many of you will know and perhaps she's fantastic actress . she says we've basically gone mad because we're all desperate be victims. these days the hope to it. well she was reference thing was the hashtag me too movement but she was meaning a

more broader point nigel do you agree with her? well i think that the days of the british stiff upper lip have probably since gone and i think that also joanna lumley a rather robust individual and probably no one would dare to do anything with her. i don't agree with her because think that the without the metoo movement, you would never have got jeffrey epstein exposed. you'd never have harvey. harvey in prison . i harvey. harvey in prison. i think it's really important people to speak up sexual harassment. i work in the house of commons and. one of the problems there is people don't speak up because they're frightened about their careers. and i know of employees who continue to get away with that, especially younger staff, because people get together. so i don't think being a victim and actually the fact is such a bad thing . why when you report them, thing. why when you report them, then if you know if you're

saying that actively going on right, there are employees that are behaving inappropriately towards their members of staff. why don't do something about that? i've got no evidence i would stick it in the newspaper tomorrow . actually the tomorrow. i actually had the evidence and the is the evidence and the is that the people involved don't want to come forward . i respect that come forward. i respect that anonymity . i come forward. i respect that anonymity. i respect come forward. i respect that anonymity . i respect that the anonymity. i respect that the thatis anonymity. i respect that the that is are not to be identified in any way . and the danger of in any way. and the danger of a place like that is the moment you start out learning what has been on everyone very quickly , been on everyone very quickly, who the victim , the perpetrator who the victim, the perpetrator is . but the who the victim, the perpetrator is. but the only way we're going to actually put a stop to it is for people come forward. i mean, you don't stop a sex pest by staying silent. yes is worrying because we've had loads of pubuc because we've had loads of public haven't we have employees beenin public haven't we have employees been in trouble for doing that and the other and been inappropriate so it's a hey in your experience as well it still goes on as more of this it's not great and it worries me upsets

me about girls what acceptable jokes l'ampleur oh it's all going on in the house of parliament and but it upsets me actually people would just take that. actually people would just take that . i wouldn't take someone that. i wouldn't take someone harassing me i wouldn't i would never think about this. i mean, it's the nature of really that a lot of these people are hoping for political careers of their own. they researches young staffers, that kind of thing . staffers, that kind of thing. and they fear that if they come forward and cause trouble , that forward and cause trouble, that would be the end of their political futures. i think it's an absolutely situation, but at the moment , an absolutely situation, but at the moment, unless they're prepared to, band together, come forward and do something about it , it's very difficult to it, it's very difficult to actually take this forward. what do you make to all of this? well, i think on joanna lumley, broader point , it's become broader point, it's become fashionable to cast yourself as a victim. i think she's right. and we can see that in the harry and meghan netflix . i mean, they and meghan netflix. i mean, they are very much trying to portray themselves as victims, whether it's victims of the racist

tabloid press or , the racist tabloid press or, the racist members of the royal family that try to portray themselves as having been hounded , hounded having been hounded, hounded across the sea because they they couldn't endure the oppressive atmosphere in britain particularly in the palace which is obviously complete nonsense and i think it does show just how ridiculous the oppression olympics become. if people like harry and meghan, who after all, still have their titles , their still have their titles, their net worth is supposedly a hundred million plus dollars . hundred million plus dollars. they live in this fabulous ranch in montecito. they live , you in montecito. they live, you know, fabulous lives . know, fabulous lives. international jet setters, if they can portray , themselves as they can portray, themselves as victims it shows just how absurd it is for people to claim . and i it is for people to claim. and i agree with you, i have to say and i think some of the language around one of the recent palace about the charity dinner and where someone was asked where they were from or whatever, and

inoficed they were from or whatever, and i noticed some of the language that was there. you know, i've been abused , been violated . this been abused, been violated. this is an act of abuse. and kind of i've got to say , i find that a i've got to say, i find that a little bit extreme i disclosure, i've not been in a situation where people are repeatedly me to see where i'm from and you know if someone says that that's upsetting then who am i to say it's not? but when we're using this language of i'm traumatised caused really well i think one thing we encounter michel at the free union is that the policing of speech trying to prohibit the use of certain and phrases to turn universities into safe spaces , prevent spaces, prevent micro—aggressions to, to trigger warnings, to classic works of engush warnings, to classic works of english literature . it all seems english literature. it all seems to be predicated this idea that university are full of very fragile , delicate people who fragile, delicate people who will easily be upset, traumatised, sent into spiral of mental ill health if they

encounter anything they find remotely offensive or disagreeable and often the people doing this language policing the loudest about it are upper middle class white males who are sort of presenting themselves as saviours of these poor , beleaguered, put upon poor, beleaguered, put upon women colour or trans people or, you know, lgbtq+ people liberal was claiming to be standing up on their behalf for these people who can't speak for themselves often, that's sort of patronising, denying those groups, agents . and often if you groups, agents. and often if you talk to people in those, they actually aren't too concerned . actually aren't too concerned. the space needing to be safe , the space needing to be safe, being easily offended. it's all a kind , you know, imaginary game a kind, you know, imaginary game being played by these woke political activists to silence their opponents . and this is big their opponents. and this is big business, isn't it ? their opponents. and this is big business, isn't it? a their opponents. and this is big business, isn't it ? a lot of business, isn't it? a lot of money to be made. it's in victimhood. there is courses and groups. this body that charity you name a set up for i don't know whether it's whatever the social allies i mean i could list about 100 there's so many

of them and there's a lot of people make a lot of money off people make a lot of money off people being upset or being victims of things . isn't that. victims of things. isn't that. yeah.i victims of things. isn't that. yeah. i mean, i think that the what we should, we should get here on the various points that toby made. i agree with pretty much everything toby just much everything that toby just said are degrees said was there are degrees victimhood , and so there are victimhood, and so there are degrees of the kind of aggression people feel that if somebody feels that they been a victim of racism and want to speak about it, i think that's up to them. so in that sense, i think that meghan right, if that's what she felt too to actually say that i don't much like the whining in the in netflix documentary i don't think some of the things they're complaining about are particularly valid but it depends where you're where the problem lies. i mean if you are being sexually harassed and you are a young or a young man who really can't cope with that, that i would i would consider to be serious. yes. and that's why

those are the people who need to come forward and you say, i'm using your language you say if those young people can't cope with it, toby, would making a point a second ago as you've got all of these trigger words safe , you wrap these kids in cotton wool, heaven forbid , they hear wool, heaven forbid, they hear anything that might upset or offend them and. one of joanna lumley's points was in header images bales and in hair day. she was saying, you know, if someone harassed her or groped her, she'd smack them. should the hand away, should stand up for herself . you is there for herself. you know, is there to be said about that ? yeah. i to be said about that? yeah. i mean i mean, if somebody has got the confidence and the ability to do as joanna lumley clearly had , that's actually great. if had, that's actually great. if you can deal with with the you can deal with the with the situation immediate , maybe you situation immediate, maybe you can with yourself . can deal with it yourself. that's and an awful lot of that's fine. and an awful lot of people can't. an awful lot of are vulnerable , don't have that are vulnerable, don't have that self—confidence do find it very scary and then finally have nowhere to turn . and those are nowhere to turn. and those are the people i'm talking about

that want to protect. but toby's concern is making that worse, isn't it? what toby is flagging quite right, and that is feeding into what you're saying. into what you're then saying. what seeing in your what we're then seeing in your experience the experience is the end of the things that just being things that toby just being saying. want to a saying. but you want to make a point? yeah. no, i think you're. right, michel, the culture of victimhood resilience victimhood does breed resilience or the or mental toughness. quite the opposite. but just to come back on nigel's points, he on one of nigel's points, he said if meghan claims that said that if meghan claims that she she is the victim of she feels she is the victim of racism, then who are we to gainsay her? and i think that's of the one of the problems with the culture victimhood is this kind of you have to believe people even it seems a bit implausible . it's nonetheless implausible. it's nonetheless the lived experience . but what the lived experience. but what that overlooks is that some cases it's performative cases it's perform ative victimhood cases it's performative victimhood when complains that she feels like a victim and presents herself as quite fragile and vulnerable as a way of trying to, you know, win in the oppression olympics . i don't the oppression olympics. i don't believe it. it seems like she's performing that role in order to

kind of score a point and in her case, make a great deal. kind of score a point and in her case, make a great deal . money case, make a great deal. money behind the rise . and i do behind the rise. and i do believe she does feel that . but believe she does feel that. but in a way, by saying you have to believe the judgement you're making about her feelings, but you're sort of saying that whenever people claim to feel offended or , upset or offended or, upset or traumatised, we have take that literally because you know, it be terrible in case they're taking the case that in case they truthfully and honestly not believe them would be would be terrible but actually it seems obvious many cases that they are just performing for the cameras they're just pretending. i mean we find this kind faux offend offence taking all the time in the work. i people claiming to be offended gone through someone's social media found something to be offended by and then scream about how offensive it is from the rooftops and then share it with many people as they can, even though they've decided it's horrible and decided that it's horrible and offensive upsetting. offensive and upsetting. why share then? seems share it then? it always seems to performance and not to be a performance and not genuine , not genuine genuine offence, not genuine upset, of trying to

upset, just a way of trying to score points. win an argument about points is a good about school points is a good point. again once again that point. and again once again that media example i'm with you on that i media example i'm with you on thati do media example i'm with you on that i do think if somebody actually feels that they have been the victim of racism . yes been the victim of racism. yes you must take that at face value . if someone like meghan says she feels that she or she felt suicidal i think you take something like that seriously , something like that seriously, whatever the background to it, whether was justified or whatever is a whole different matter, if that's is she is saying and that is her feeling i don't think we are the people turn around to make a judgement on those feelings. you see i think of course there are genuine cases and they should be taken very seriously and it would be wrong to ignore them. but i do think we also oughtn't to abandon our common sense and sometimes i think it's right to be sceptical. i don't think in every case we have to take literally and seriously make a claim to be a victim particular when it's in the context of a

media war against the royal family. but i don't and that's one of the reasons why rape report is so low is because people do not believe the and so i rape report was quite high but it was a conviction as well convictions and a low two. but the whole thing is remote. there are far more rapes around than people who actually report . and people who actually report. and i think this is isn't this is an extreme end. but what the police been told is you start from the premise that the victim is telling the truth. well, to get topical example, nigel, the problem with that approach is that it seems to fly in the face of the presumption of innocence. so to take the woman at buckingham palace claimed to be the victim racism because everyone believed her because it's taboo to express any scepticism when someone claims to be the of racism lady hussey was automatically assumed to be guilty. there was no due process and she was just tossed out the window. that's wrong. so an

affront to our sense of justice. i mean, what happened was completely wrong. the us quite clearly panicked and said that they, you know, she had to they, you know, that she had to because this zero because they have this zero tolerance of racism. so we shouldn't believe the in that instance, we should have we have taken seriously . there should taken it seriously. there should be a proper examination . the be a proper examination. the evidence. shouldn't have just evidence. we shouldn't have just assumed right because assumed she was right because that experience that was her lived experience and lady and therefore assumed lady hussey guilty . and you make hussey was guilty. and you make a point as well which a very good point as well which is this day and age, having is in this day and age, having to anyone that says, i want to help anyone that says, i want a second. so don't add up to me. you know this whole kind of transcribe , if you even dare to transcribe, if you even dare to even query some of these things , people jump on you quicker than i don't know what . going to than i don't know what. going to take a quick break. when i come back, i'm going have some of your reaction to what you've just been hearing. what do you think was the hook for this? was joanna that we're turning joanna lumley that we're turning into nation people into a pathetic nation of people desperately victims ? desperately seeking victims? nigel makes the opposite point. we're sometimes saying we're actually sometimes saying that do anything that victims that do anything about it . toby's point,

that victims that do anything about it. toby's point, and i think it's a great one is actually surrounding all these young kids in, say, for what, safe spaces and bubble and all the rest of it. so then when they're doing counsel stuff and they're doing counsel stuff and they struggle to know how to deal with it properly, you tell me your thoughts. gb news gbnews.uk. now there's been a ruling by a tribunal basically that says that the care homes were right to sack workers it, refused to get a vaccine . i just refused to get a vaccine. i just want to take a look this to see whether or not we agree with this what the implications of this what the implications of this ruling are potentially forward. anywhere. forward. so don't go anywhere. and see you in about 2 and i'll see you in about 2 minutes .

hello there. welcome to dewbs& co with me, michelle dewberry alongside me till 7:00 tonight. my alongside me till 7:00 tonight. my panel , alongside me till 7:00 tonight. my panel, nigel nelson, the political editor of the people, and alongside him as the director of the free speech

union. young we've just been having a very interesting conversation in the break. i mean, you as good as tony is, whether not broadcast whether or not it was broadcast or wasn't starstruck. or not, it wasn't starstruck. i'm sure it was. and we were i'm not sure it was. and we were just talking about the difference people difference between people i was saying the example , toby, which saying the example, toby, which is there's younger is giving there's some younger people that are people in parliament that are getting in their work getting harassed in their work to speak out. and i was just explaining having to help anyone that tries to harass me, i wouldn't have any of it. so nigel. 0.9 so that's because nigel. 0.9 so but that's because you're and some people you're confident and some people are maurice to are not confident. maurice to that i confidence is that was i think confidence is a choice. i think you make a decision an individual . i decision as an individual. i actually to be outgoing actually want to be outgoing won't you make that decision. you can then start looking at ways means tools to create that. and i just find that real fascinating point. i wonder what you make of him, do you think you make of him, do you think you can choose to be confident and choose your reactions to think, or do you think that your character, just your character is and on and on you is what it is? and on and on you go. lots response. that first go. lots of response. that first topic, the way, simon says topic, by the way, simon says joanna so right. the

joanna lumley is so right. the new fashion is to be a victim, is not the only one. you could also say that having a mental health issue is a fashionable statement as well . well, she did statement as well. well, she did say that actually a few years ago. she i think she almost said that when she got in trouble for that, then. but i've got to say, a lot of people would agree that sentiment, a mental issue sentiment, a mental health issue is but people do often is an awful but people do often normal natural emotion and put them under that label of a mental issue that they and says, 90, mental issue that they and says, go, jo , that's challenging for mental issue that they and says, my accent . he absolutely agrees my accent. he absolutely agrees with joanna lumley and he's saying that more people need to stand up for themselves, which is exactly the conversation that nigel and i have just having. patricia says goodness for toby young . no offence, but nigel has young. no offence, but nigel has spent too time in diversity and inclusion brainwashing sessions . have you been on brainwashing 7 . have you been on brainwashing ? repeating brainwashing on diversity courses mean yes, i have. yeah, i've indoctrination

classes. well, you can make your mind up whether or not they've been effective or not with nigella's on. and i'll leave it to you. an employment tribunal has home bosses were has ruled care home bosses were within their rights to sack members staff refuse be members of staff refuse to be vaccinated . this is basically vaccinated. this is basically the five workers. this tribunal was five workers who wouldn't get vaccinated. they took it to drop enrolled, but the judge threw their claims and said threw out their claims and said that was basically that the care home was basically just to protect the just trying to protect the clinically vulnerable patients. i this quite interesting i found this quite interesting toby. and what do you make to it? by this verdict it? yeah, it was by this verdict , i would have thought that , , i would have thought that, requiring staff at a care home to be vaccinated as a condition of remaining employed would have been a breach was a breach of the employment rights and demanding that they do was not a reasonable request on the part of the employer. so surprised they didn't get a finding for unfair dismissal particularly in light of what we now know about the vaccines which is that they may protect the person who's had the vaccine from severe of the

disease but don't actually stop them from catching all passing it on so if the vaccines don't create this wonderful protective shield which protects vulnerable people such as care home residents, then what justification is there for sacking someone who refuses to get vaccinated ? but if the care get vaccinated? but if the care home owner at the time felt and the narrative the time was you know because you used to say don't you take this not just for you but to protect your grandma and all rest of it. so if that was the narrative, the time and what they were doing was acting in what they thought was the best interests, then, would that sway thought? yeah, would sway thought? yeah, i would have. have hoped that have. i i would have hoped that the would have considered the judge would have considered contemporary evidence . even the contemporary evidence. even the evidence the time mean if you evidence at the time mean if you actually paid attention to the trial and what people at pfizer and astrazeneca actually said, they weren't actually claiming that the vaccines protected people from catching disease, from the vaccinated anyway,

didn't they recently that she said we were never doing trials to look at transmission. nigel nelson where , were you on that? nelson where, were you on that? well, i think that the i was surprised, too, about the verdict. however, i think it was the right. one, i think in a situation we've got to go back to whether all this happened that there was a lot we didn't know . one of things we saw know. one of the things we saw was the vaccines were the best protection, both against transmission and serious illness and also the government for the damage by that time, by sending patients back from hospital untested, back into care homes anyway. so in a situation like this, i think that i'm broadly against vaccine mandates, but when it to something specific where the bosses of the care homes thought that there would be a genuine health risk to the residents or the people carers going out to visit . i think they going out to visit. i think they were absolutely right do what they did and far as the people

concerned were they they had a choice . they could have had the choice. they could have had the vaccine they stood for their principles . they be religious vaccine they stood for their principles. they be religious or based on conspiracy theory that their right to go and do that but principles have consequences and consequence in this case was loss of employment . and i think loss of employment. and i think that's about right is a specific it case. it's not for the general population, but it does to me that given where we were then, and that's what the judge was making the decision not that he got it right. right. and the people that were fired because there were a of them all the there were a lot of them all the people that chose to leave the profession, perhaps more accurately, covid accurately, because of covid vaccines. they vaccines. do you think they should reinstated now? well, vaccines. do you think they sthink reinstated now? well, vaccines. do you think they sthink the reinstated now? well, vaccines. do you think they sthink the public:ed now? well, vaccines. do you think they sthink the public:ed notbea/ell, i think the public could be. i mean, i don't see any problem about mean, the people about future. i mean, the people here, i would imagine, be able to get future employment . the to get future employment. the argument over and unfair argument was over and unfair dismissal, a specific unfairness . but yes, i do . i mean, we the

. but yes, i do. i mean, we the whole vaccines have changed the whole vaccines have changed the whole landscape as far as covid is concerned . and you probably is concerned. and you probably could now go go back into frontline health care jobs without needing to be vaccinated . but at the time, we would about a completely different time and we forget how much the how much things have changed since since that period looking back on any of that. so yeah. i mean i think i think the issue here is that people should be able to determine what they put into their own bodies. i believe the principle of bodily autonomy and lots of people who support that when it comes to a woman's right to abortion don't support it . it comes to the right to, it. it comes to the right to, refuse a vaccination. i any consequence to that choice because i guess that's the point i'm making . i because i guess that's the point i'm making. i think because i guess that's the point i'm making . i think well, because i guess that's the point i'm making. i think well, i think to my mind saying to someone that if you don't vaccinated you'll lose your that's that's not the saying that's that's not the saying that's an unacceptably severe

consequence that's essentially coercing someone if they want keep their job and to having keep theirjob and to having a vaccine that's one thing. but if you're working with clinically elderly people , literally in the elderly people, literally in the at risk group of covid, i wouldn't that's where you hope it will not if i actually understood how ineffective the vaccines were protecting the vulnerable i mean you know this would be what happens if a soldier subsequently becomes a passive test wouldn't we expect soldier to leave the just to oil protesters the extinction rebellion protesters take consequence for their principles ending up in jail these to be sort of quid pro quo . what do sort of quid pro quo. what do you mean about a soldier being a pacifist offering to leave the army soldier ? a soldier gets army soldier? a soldier gets religion gets, god during service becomes a pacifist. as i cannot bear arms. i cannot go out and do my job. would you not expect that soldier then as a result of that to have to leave the army? now, if you literally were sitting was a soldier and

say, you know, walk out, go into hand—to—hand combat, i wouldn't say. right. you ask me then i'll say, well, if that's the situation that we're in the army is a broad spectrum different roles. the army get involved. absolutely hence every 10 seconds these days, it to be that the army's getting pulled in to bail this on the other. so now i won't sack them. at the very least, i would redeploy them. would also but them. the army would also but i think i think think where that where that argument breaks down think i think think where that wiit's that argument breaks down think i think think where that wiit's nott argument breaks down think i think think where that wiit's not perfect ent breaks down think i think think where that wiit's not perfect analogy (s down is it's not perfect analogy because case of the because in the case of the soldier , he's changing his mind soldier, he's changing his mind and he's deciding that he no longer wants to be, you know, in the armed forces business. but in the case of these care workers, they didn't their minds rather the policy changed and didn't think events changing round them a bit also hard to cope with this wouldn't have been an issue once we'd covid and the situation we're in at the time and the feeling vaccines would actually make a material difference. it was the event the change things but also what about reversibility so if i'm soldier and i joined the

i'm a soldier and i joined the army fight and then decide army to fight and then i decide believe don't wanna fight believe in god don't wanna fight whatever i can i can then change my back. if i'm a care my mind back. if i'm a care worker for reason worker for whatever reason that's working that kind of that's not working that kind of weapons, for whatever weapons, but for whatever reason, vaccine. reason, didn't want the vaccine. if had to take it to half if i then had to take it to half my job. well, that's a reversible. and that's things in my system. i can't suddenly then take again. you know, i take it out again. you know, i take it out again. you know, i take point. but i mean, but take that point. but i mean, but again you had choice in the again you had that choice in the first place. the choice was whether had vaccine or whether you had the vaccine or albeit you reluctantly albeit something you reluctantly and keep your job. so i think in and keep yourjob. so i think in the case of the soldier he brought that up so he's going to feel the way. okay go there's an important difference here which is the soldier if he decides midway through, he's saying, hey, sorry sorry, this is if she decides suspended, if she decides suspended, if she decides midway through the career that she no longer to kill anyone and that it would be against conscience to do so, she is breaching the contract i

think the implied contract under which she joined the army. but what happened here is the terms of the contract changed and they were changed by the employer. and i think one thing we have to take and consider, too, is that because care homes did start insisting people had to be vaccinated because it then the law people had to be law that people had to be vaccinated until that law was changed on the 22nd of march of this year. many people left that profession . and as a result, we profession. and as a result, we now have a huge labour in the care sector and big problem, a problem caused by the unintended consequence of this draconian policy. yeah. and if you're a regular few gb news and you have been a while you might been for a while you might remember we an out the remember we did an out the mandate on this if mandate campaign on this show if you remember that when it was happening well within the nhs . i happening well within the nhs. i know going to a quick know we're going to take a quick break. know thoughts on break. let me know thoughts on that i come back, that one. but when i come back, i to talk to you about the i want to talk to you about the definition of a woman . a definition of a woman. a dictionary now has changed it basically to say that someone identifies as a female even

though they are said to be a different sex at birth , does different sex at birth, does that matter ? and i want to look that matter? and i want to look at if it does matter, why one of the consequences of changing a definition, anything or no . i'll definition, anything or no. i'll see you in a couple of minutes .

monday to thursday, 9 pm. till 11 pm. join me dan wootton i'll bnng 11 pm. join me dan wootton i'll bring you the sharpest takes hottest debates. do you believe in prison? i don't believe in prisons. complete i guarantee you that we know no bias, no sense ship. i actually was personally quite offended by it and no reason to go to bed. so i guess i've always been woke. that's dan wootton tonight tv, radio and online monday to thursday from 9 pm. till 11 pm. on gb news the people's channel. britain's news. channel

hello there. welcome back to dewbs& co with me. michelle dewberry right through until 7:00 this evening alongside . me 7:00 this evening alongside. me ihave 7:00 this evening alongside. me i have nigel nelson, the political editor of the sunday people and director of the free speech union. young there's a lot of debate about the whole joanna lumley thing , the start joanna lumley thing, the start of the programme about whether or not pathetic and or not we're pathetic and desperate to be victims . jane desperate to be victims. jane says, michel, you can abso lutely choose whether or not you are a victim or a survivor however in life it is a mindset . a mentality, i think is the essence. there i have to say on the whole, i do actually with that some people saying that actually people are different . actually people are different. not everyone is as strong as each other and you can't make that choice perhaps as a totally agree with toby, young people , agree with toby, young people, these days seem to be happy to be victims. you're quite harsh though, bob, because you're saying you they do this to get attention. you are suggesting you should bring back conscription all. the young people need to develop a

backbone. pizza's emails saying what is your guest talking about ? he suggesting there are no christians in army. please can you remind him of the words for god for and you are going to regret making that point? honestly, he's going to be kicking himself and wake up at three in the morning and go, oh, why did i say that point anyway ? look, what is the definition ? ? look, what is the definition? a woman? i mean , if an alien a woman? i mean, if an alien kind of landed right now, they'd be a bit confused because five years ago there was a very simple answer but it's simple answer to this, but it's all of got a little bit all kind of got a little bit confused for certain people, hasn't it? well, look, the hasn't it? well, look, lady, the dictionary on hand to help us dictionary is on hand to help us with things. cambridge with such things. cambridge dictionary, it dictionary, though, has made it amendment addition amendment a change. in addition to of a woman, to its definition of a woman, and it now says so. it does say, ihave and it now says so. it does say, i have to be honest, it does still say it's an adult female, but now there's an additional definition adding to this which says it's someone who identifies as female . hm. what you saying

as female. hm. what you saying to this, nigel nelson? well i mean, i don't think it's a political thing. i think it's quite simply language is , a quite simply language is, a living breathing kind of thing. and as a result, it keeps changing. you wouldn't nowadays use the word gay , for instance, use the word gay, for instance, to mean happy. so it shows how language changes the years. what are the dictionaries ? do it and are the dictionaries? do it and it's only using it as a secondary definition is saying that people now commonly refer to trans women as women and they're included in the dictionary because that now become a commonly used fire which seems to me perfectly fair that's that's how keep developing so your definition you're happy with the definition of a woman to be an adult who lives and identifies as female though they may have been said to be different sex at birth. to be a different sex at birth. you think that's an accurate . you think that's an accurate. i'm with that i'm perfectly happy with that definition of a woman. yes. toby i agree with nigel that

dictionaries change as the way in which people use language changes but i'm sceptical that in this case that's why the cambridge dictionary has made this change. i don't think very many people very few in fact i are using the word woman mean someone who identifies as female, but who was born male after all, that is a tiny, tiny percentage of the population, much less than % is it really much less than% is it really plausible that so many people are now using the word woman to mean it in that way rather than the conventional way? adult female that they had to add this definition to my mind. they've added this because this is this is how they think the woman should be used in it let's trans exclusionary way. so it's not really a dictionary. it's more of a political manifesto. there are elements of political prescriptive ness creeping in, which i think is wrong, it seems to me to be. it's not a dictionary anymore. it's something else. if it's about how should talk rather than

how we should talk rather than the talking. yeah. the way we are talking. yeah. and think point about how and i think point now about how you is an you should talk is an interesting one because if you're somebody who does sit there and think actually no, a woman is a biological female , woman is a biological female, full stop, then you can have a separate conversation if you want about the gender of someone about how gender identifies and presents, whether a man was a sue or address, whether a woman wears a dress or whatever, i mean, whatever. that's kind of gender and that's presentation of gender. but if you are someone, nigel, that says no, actually, you cannot change your biological sex. this whole nofion biological sex. this whole notion of you are assigned at birth as though someone just sits there with a checklist go right about three females today. we need to have little bit of equality going on there. you can have an assigned male female. i mean, you can't even disagree with the concept that can change their biological sex. these without being called all of names and having amount of pressure put onto . well, i mean, pressure put onto. well, i mean, you can't change your biological

sex . what you can't change is sex. what you can't change is your gender. and that's that's the whole point. but do you think that a different sex? yes i think gender and sex are different and one of the problems has been is confusing two just but rather than get two but just but rather than get onto the debate of the whole gender trans debate what we're talking about is how people interact with each other because . that's what language is all about. . that's what language is all about . if we had a trans woman. about. if we had a trans woman. the studio with us now , we would the studio with us now, we would treat her as a woman. we would talk to her as a woman we'd use female pronouns. but so that's the point the dictionary is making that a trans woman is a woman according to the definition of a woman. i think nigel's missed out on one of his diversity training courses afraid nigel that the current fashionable view is not just that gender is a social construct but that sex is a social construct too . and that's social construct too. and that's

why there should be no obstacles to changing sex. and often they refer to, i mean, like this thing that they say the new definition of woman is someone who lives and identifies as female that they may have been said to have had a different sex at birth. see that? they're trying to be careful not to say they had a different sex at birth because they're saying it's not rooted in biology, it's not , it's just not chromosomal, it's just something to you something that's assigned to you at often by a blink at at birth, often by a blink at binary doctor imagines that sex only comes into play. do you consider a woman to be a woman ? consider a woman to be a woman? what do you define a trans woman 7 what do you define a trans woman ? someone someone who is changed her gender from male to female how to change agenda from male to from. well, i obviously a variety of ways of doing that but who identifies as a female who was previously born a male if you'd like the dictionary definition that i mean the decree is the same thing for men by the way that trans the

definition man but i think you've misunderstood when people say a trans woman is a woman, they don't mean that this person who was born biologically male now identifies as having the gender female they that the claim that a trans woman is a woman is the claim that they are ontologically legally in every meaningful respect in from a woman and that's going much further than just saying they've changed their gender. the idea that you can now change your sex. i think that's what people object to the point of. i think it undermines sex based foods that that when you meet that language that when you meet a woman and you treat her a trans woman and you treat her as a woman you see that person as a woman you see that person as a woman and just you think a trans woman and a woman are completely like i just see them as a trans because they want to be a woman. but if want to be a man, do you see as a man, if you want to be a man would see you as a man. yes, but when say that, i mean, you would treat a

trans woman as woman, because that's the way they want to be treated. will that include allowing them to against biological in like biological women in sports like rugby weightlifting how rugby and weightlifting how trans it include admitting trans would it include admitting them women's if them to women's prison, if they're on the far register language there? when we come to the technicalities of it. no, i wouldn't, by way. okay well, wouldn't, by the way. okay well, there that's can of there you go. that's can of worms that we could open and get into. i've got to say, this a slight unease about this conversation . and they shouldn't conversation. and they shouldn't be actually a very strange topic because people get so kind of help about it and rude and the rest of it. and anyway , you're rest of it. and anyway, you're right, michelle, the free speech evening until we've represented more people this year who've got into trouble for they don't think trans women are women and for some aspect trans for disputing some aspect trans rights dogma than any other category it's extraordinary het up how much of a live wire it is well they go it could keep us talking i do have to go to a break and when i come back. i want to get into a topic that

has got you guys talking and got us talking last night. the concept of food banks, they seem to be popping every single to be popping on every single corner. we have corner. whenever we have conversations about strikes you often like nurses often hear sentences like nurses that have to rely on food banks . and it's got me pondering and it got you talking night as well. do you think food bank usage has almost become politically weaponised now ? do politically weaponised now? do you think that everyone using should be using long? you tell me your thoughts. i know some of you have some strong opinions on this. i'll see you in a couple of minutes .

hello. welcome back to dewbs& co with me michelle dewberry alongside toby young and nigel nelson . and right through till nelson. and right through till 7:00 tonight, if you watch show last night, we've spoken about striking one of my panel made the comment nurses are having to

go food banks and essentially we should be ashamed of that in the current climate that sentence gets a lot and it really gets trotted a lot and it really got me thinking . it got you guys got me thinking. it got you guys talking. nigel i personally think this whole usage of food banks , the frequency and all the banks, the frequency and all the rest of it, it has become politically weaponised . i don't politically weaponised. i don't really see any why someone earning 30 grand a year literally cannot afford food. what am i missing ? probably. what am i missing? probably. probably two languages at that word weaponize. sort of conjures up the idea of a missile which becomes when a warhead goes on the end of it. in other words, the end of it. in other words, the missile was beforehand and then the war had weaponized it. so the suggestion is being politically weaponized. i think that ed miliband got to the trouble with back in 2015 when you said the same about the nhs is that the whole thing is sort of harmless and it's not food banks now we've seen a huge increase in the number of people

who go to them none of the ten are reporting more people this year than they did previously . year than they did previously. donations are going down because can't afford it. and do you think increase. i'm just going to i'm really sorry i'm just the tories i'm just want to get to the point here. do you think food bank usage is going up because literally cannot to eat. yeah. do you think food usage is going up because people have cottoned on to the fact that actually i some free food if actually i get some free food if people literally afford people literally cannot afford to with energy bills. 96% up to eat with energy bills. 96% up this year. so in fact, if all the air or whatever you think that that's realistic that you can't afford depending on what your other commitments are. yes right toby. well i think you're both right in that it's true that food bank usage has and that's at least partly by an increase in food poverty. but at the same time , the increase in the same time, the increase in foodbank usage certainly been politically weaponised . i politically weaponised. i remember participating in a debate about on the eve of the 2015 general election and

discovered that the reason food bank usage had increased significantly since labour was in power is because gordon brown prevented claimants benefit officers from being referred to food banks if they claim poverty, whereas under under the tories that was possible. and the reason food bank usage had increased dramatically in 2015 compared to five years earlier. was because of that and partly because there was a lot of delay in people being able to receive the benefits because of the rollout of universal credit. but i don't think it's necessary , i don't think it's necessary, ali. the most reliable index of food poverty. so in france, for instance the use of food banks per capita is twice as high as it is in the uk. but food poverty is certainly not twice as high in france as it is in the uk. it's one indicator of food poverty, but it's not exhaustive and there are many . exhaustive and there are many. why food usage is why food bank usage is increasing . addition to an increasing. addition to an increase in food poverty . yeah, increase in food poverty. yeah, i just found a quite interesting you guys have been in touch with

this a lot . you're saying chris. this a lot. you're saying chris. i'm going to read this out because i know a lot of people will agree with you, but as soon as i read this out, people will be upset with saying you've been hot anyone, a food bank. hot before anyone, a food bank. they should be checked for whether or not they take drugs or or buy alcohol if they or smoke or buy alcohol if they do the above and spend do any of the above and spend money of the above, they money on any of the above, they shouldn't food . i'm shouldn't be to free food. i'm to leave you to ponder what you think too many people are saying that actually if you are earning 4 to 4 grand a year and you need a food bank , the problem is not a food bank, the problem is not with your income it's with your ability to budget. do you ability to budget. what do you think? this a think? so that again, this a conversation that i could have that could rumble on and on. but look the time, been told look at the time, i've been told that is patiently waiting. that nigel is patiently waiting. sir thank you sir nigel, i shall say thank you to . you and young, to you to. you and toby young, to you to. you and toby young, to you to nigel farage. i'll say hello you. what have you got coming up for us well, michel, it was for? us well, michel, it was predictable, but it's still very sad and awful when it happens . sad and awful when it happens. four confirmed dead in the

channel another four missing. that may be more than that for all we know. i'm going to debate tonight how many people have to die in the english channel before we start taking our responsibilities seriously and stopping small from crossing stopping the small from crossing all of that and much more coming up in a few minutes. but first, let's get the all weather good evening and welcome to the latest weather . with me, annie latest weather. with me, annie shuttleworth from . the met shuttleworth from. the met office is staying very over the next few days with further snow showers and some icy out there as well. it's very cold at the moment because we've got this strong feed of arctic air. you can see these blue colours coming down all the way from the north and spreading across the whole the uk. so very cold whole of the uk. so very cold air the moment and means air at the moment and means we'll to see some we'll continue to see some showers pushing in from the north northern scotland parts of northern ireland as well as north england. so the snow and ice out through ice warnings out through wednesday and into wednesday night and into thursday morning elsewhere , a thursday morning elsewhere, a dry clear but very cold night.

another sharp frost out there. we're really down as low as minus seven, eight on thursday morning . sharp frost, but plenty morning. sharp frost, but plenty dry and bright weather for the bulk . the uk dry and bright weather for the bulk. the uk that will remain cloudy for northern ireland, northern scotland and the north—east of england . well, as north—east of england. well, as we continue to see these snow showers feed in from the north, we've got a bit more of a breeze out there. it will feel a little bit cooler exposed to the wind, not much above freezing for many areas . and thursday night, we're areas. and thursday night, we're going to see those temperatures plummet plenty of clear spells out there for many areas , the out there for many areas, the showers eventually starting to ease for north eastern parts. scotland, we could see some, mr. murk, across the southeast , some murk, across the southeast, some freezing fog here and snow will start to push into the western isles through the early hours of friday. it be one of the coldest nights of the week on thursday night. we're really getting down as low as —50 degrees. now, friday will see quite a lot of

bright and sunny weather, but this snow across , northern this snow across, northern scotland will become more falling as snow to lower levels at first before it starts to fall as rain as we start to , see fall as rain as we start to, see some warmer weather as we approach the weekend, though it will wetter and windier saturday and .

sunday good evening . after more deaths good evening. after more deaths in the english channel today , in the english channel today, i'm going to ask the question how many more deaths does it take before we actually take responsibility ourselves for what is going on in the english we'll talk debate that get views on it, too. we'll look at the sheer number of migrants that have now gone missing from

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